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Author Topic: JR / Macgregor and Spektrum - a statement please re possible legislation changes  (Read 50504 times)

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Offline CHEL

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A big thank you for Pete Christy for clearing up this nonsense about Euro regs and DSM. It was nice to have the situation explained in laymans terms.

Well done Pete  :af

Phil.


Offline leccyflyer

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Seconded :af

Thanks Pete.

Now, why couldn't Horizon have said that?
Nicht mal ein Spitfire kann zur gleichen Zeit im Süden und im Norden sein.

Offline taximan

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Probably because nobody would have believed them.


Offline markg

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Probably because nobody asked them.
Fixed

Offline leccyflyer

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Fixed, but not true. They were asked.
Nicht mal ein Spitfire kann zur gleichen Zeit im Süden und im Norden sein.


Offline CF-FZG

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What was their reply Brian?


Mark
Paint will not hide imperfections, it will just change their colour!

Offline leccyflyer

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What was their reply Brian?


Mark

As it was related to me, second hand, it was that there wasn't a problem and that it was just an internet rumour.
Nicht mal ein Spitfire kann zur gleichen Zeit im Süden und im Norden sein.

Offline steamysheep

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I almost started to worry about this subject until last night...

Cool evening, bright blue sky, 5 mph steady breeze.

DSX9 in hand, 1/3rd Scale Pup aloft doing lazy eights, stall turns and slow low passes across the field... Only stopped flying when there was no gap left between the sun and the horizon to fly between...

Magic....  
Keeping my chin up!

Offline CF-FZG

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As it was related to me, second hand, it was that there wasn't a problem and that it was just an internet rumour.

So going by Pete's recent statements on the whole of the 2.4GHz band, it was a pretty accurate answer $%&
Paint will not hide imperfections, it will just change their colour!


Offline leccyflyer

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We'll have to wait and see I guess, but the uncertainty is clearly there, it's been discussed and threads like this one demonstrates that it is an issue. However Pete's statement goes a long way to allaying that uncertainty and that can only be a good thing.
Nicht mal ein Spitfire kann zur gleichen Zeit im Süden und im Norden sein.

Offline CF-FZG

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Agreed, but I should have clarified my post by saying that they, HH, could have explained why they thought it wasn't a problem $%&
Paint will not hide imperfections, it will just change their colour!

Offline leccyflyer

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Agreed, but I should have clarified my post by saying that they, HH, could have explained why they thought it wasn't a problem $%&

That's all I've been looking for over the past six months.

In that time I've bought five Spektrum receivers and would have liked a bit of reassurance that there really wasn't going to be a problem.
Nicht mal ein Spitfire kann zur gleichen Zeit im Süden und im Norden sein.

Offline pchristy

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To be fair to HH, I think you have to give them a little bit of space here.

If they rushed out a statement every time someone started a rumour, they wouldn't have time to work! And as someone earlier pointed out, would they have been believed if they had said anything? It leaves them open to the old Mandy Rice-Davies charge that "they would say that, wouldn't they?"

(For those of you too young to remember, google the Profumo affair!)

Sometimes its just better to let the facts speak for themselves, even if that can be frustrating for end users....
--
Pete
 "No matter how much you push the envelope, it'll still be stationery."

Offline Phil_G

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The only way is to be patient, wait & see if the World ends in April.  I've contacts throughout Cisco management and have a favour or two to call in but I've failed to find out anything, other than it seems likely the case will be presented on the 11th as discussed.   $%&

Phil

Offline DB P7966

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Well explained Pete :af,

I have a saying, "KISS"  keep it simple stupid :''

Sometimes these threads can get a bit heavy but glad to say you brought it down to a level so that most people can understand and keep up with what is being said.

Cheers

DB

Offline R_Belluomini

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Interesting that JR would decide to produce a system following the other major manufacturers

Offline fireblade5437

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I wonder if JR ever consider employing the Weatronic system? I kinda feel that if they do design their own 2.4Ghz system I bet it probably will not be much different to the functionality of the Wea system!

Alan


Offline CF-FZG

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Interesting that JR would decide to produce a system following the other major manufacturers

According to reports, JR were developing their own FHSS system before the tie-up with Spektrum, so that would be before all the other manufacturers ;)
Paint will not hide imperfections, it will just change their colour!

Offline fireblade5437

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Apart from Futaba, I worked on a very large industrial crane way before 2.4 was used for modelling and the 2.4 control system made by? ... Futaba... ;D

Alan

Offline Alan Smithie

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Futaba (the parent organisation, of which the hobby control side is a very, very small division) developed significant chunks of the spread-spectrum communications technology and actually hold a lot (or even most) of the patenents on the enabling technologies. Not that this meansmuch for the model-control applications, it's just that a lot of modellers don't realise that the Futaba corporation is a big player in the electronics industry, where JR aren't.

PDR
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Offline emmpeabee

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Being a johny come very much lately, I'm glad I didn't find it earlier  ;)
I read it all in one afternoon, and it beat the telly - even the resolution was (almost) unexpected - short sharp and simple.
Thank you all for the enjoyment and enlightenment.
My Early Adopter DX7 can rest easy - its not on the way to EBay,  :)
& maybe I'll try a compatible rx as well  ;)
Mike
Mike

Offline FlyinBrian

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A big thank you for Pete Christy for clearing up this nonsense about Euro regs and DSM. It was nice to have the situation explained in laymans terms.

Well done Pete  :af

Phil.

Absolutely, I have just recently returned from holiday and seen Peter's posts - thanks Peter.

Incidently I went flying in S Africa and visited a couple of model shops. They have JR DSM2 and DSMJ equipment in use there and had heard no mention of the issues aired in this thread. They were very suprised when I told them JR were dropping DSM2 technology.
Basic Research is what I do - when I don't know what I'm doing!.

Offline onewasp

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Absolutely, I have just recently returned from holiday and seen Peter's posts - thanks Peter.

Incidently I went flying in S Africa and visited a couple of model shops. They have JR DSM2 and DSMJ equipment in use there and had heard no mention of the issues aired in this thread. They were very suprised when I told them JR were dropping DSM2 technology.

_________

Suggest you read this letter from JR.

Hardly dropping DSM2 !

To Our Valued JR Customers:

During the recent BMFA Nationals, a new JR 7 channel radio system using DMSS was shown by our UK distributor. This system uses a technology that is incompatible with DSM2 in order to meet a market need where DSM2 is not available to JR. Unfortunately, several individuals made statements that JR finds very misleading and require correction.

JR remains committed to future development with DSM technologies and to our customers who currently own JR equipment using the DSM standard. JR will continue to manufacture, sell, and support DSM equipment in all markets currently allowed by agreement.

It is our goal that this communication clears up any questions about JR’s intentions and that JR remains confident in and committed to the future of DSM technology around the world.

We thank you for your continued support.

Kind regards

Mooney Takamura.
International Sales Manager
JR Propo

Offline CliffordH

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Interesting phrase there...



Quote
JR will continue to manufacture, sell, and support DSM equipment in all markets currently allowed by agreement

I detect the heavy hand of Horizon Hobbies USA leaning down on JR,  I could be wrong but seeing and knowing what they done in the past, it would not surprise me.

 :P

Offline BrianB

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And of course Clifford, HH still have a mountain of DSM gear they want to sell......

And note Mr Takamura's guarded use of the word "currently". Does this perhaps imply impending change?
« Last Edit: October 02, 2010, 17:55:25 PM by BrianB »
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Offline pchristy

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A couple of points:

1) Remember that English is not his native language before trying to read too much into it!

2) I think you'll find that "by agreement" refers to legal requirements rather than contractual - for instance DSM is not legal in Japan.

--
Pete
 "No matter how much you push the envelope, it'll still be stationery."

Offline nasa_steve

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And note Mr Takamura's guarded use of the word "currently". Does this perhaps imply impending change?

And thus the seed of doubt is once again planted. ::)
nasa_steve

Offline onewasp

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And thus the seed of doubt is once again planted. ::)
___________________________

True, BUT, only if you wish it to be that way.     :af

I understand both forms of English and "The man said DSM2 is here to stay."

It would seem that the US form of  "litigation lottery"  response to rather plain English has been adopted by my UK brethren.     ::)

I had so hoped for more from you.  

 I shall now repair to my tepee  to allow the unending discussion to go on, ----, well without end.
As in sans wine, sans song, sans singer, sans end.  (the Rubaiyat, I believe)

Cheers.




Offline Theaton56

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Mooney has a good command of the English Language and is a very nice guy to talk to.

However, have just read the original email I received and there is no doubt about what I had posted.  There may have been some mis-translation when the information was first passed on to MacGregors but reading the info I was given and authorised to release, what more can I say ?

IF (and I do mean IF) I made a mistake then I will step up to the mark and apologise.

Time will tell.....  and in the meantime I will be found  :study:


Offline nasa_steve

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___________________________

True, BUT, only if you wish it to be that way.     :af

I understand both forms of English and "The man said DSM2 is here to stay."I had so hoped for more from you.

I was being Ironic hence the raised eyes smiley. I was merely outlining that as soon as someone puts the rumour to bed another tries to read beyond the meaning of such statement thus the irony of "planting the seed of doubt"  :study:
« Last Edit: October 02, 2010, 23:36:50 PM by nasa_steve »
nasa_steve

Offline onewasp

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I was being Ironic hence the raised eyes smiley. I was merely outlining that as soon as someone puts the rumour to bed another tries to read beyond the meaning of such statement thus the irony of "planting the seed of doubt"  :study:
__________________

Agreed, and TOTALLY understood. 

Offline Theaton56

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Pete,

Just out of curiosity, what other country (apart from Japan) doesn't allow DSM2 at the 100mW level ?  Surely that is where the DSMJ is marketed ?

Offline onewasp

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Pete,

Just out of curiosity, what other country (apart from Japan) doesn't allow DSM2 at the 100mW level ?  Surely that is where the DSMJ is marketed ?

____________________

mac-man

Your question (quoted here, above) and this sentence from JR's letter:

"This system uses a technology that is incompatible with DSM2 in order to meet a market need where DSM2 is not available to JR. "

------say two entirely different things.
"WHERE DSM2 IS NOT AVAILABLE TO JR" would include any geographic area where Horizon has been marketing Spektrum to date and not JR as well, in that same area.
Obviously you are painfully aware of this in the UK.

The question you ask:    ".........what other country (apart from Japan) doesn't allow DSM2 at the 100mW level ? "

------------covers an entirely different aspect of the DSM2 and JR distribution scheme ('chosen business relationship' to avoid the negative aspect of the word scheme).

I see how you got there but it is the wrong trail.

Capiche?

BTW I am an American Veteran  and long. long time RC'r ,who happens to still live in the USA so my participation in this forum is strictly as a guest.
In short, I have no dog in this hunt !
I KNOW my usage of DSM2 is assured ad infinitum so my input is intended to be informational only.
 I hope you take it that way.

Offline JohnB

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_________

Suggest you read this letter from JR.

Hardly dropping DSM2 !

To Our Valued JR Customers:

During the recent BMFA Nationals, a new JR 7 channel radio system using DMSS was shown by our UK distributor. This system uses a technology that is incompatible with DSM2 in order to meet a market need where DSM2 is not available to JR. Unfortunately, several individuals made statements that JR finds very misleading and require correction.

JR remains committed to future development with DSM technologies and to our customers who currently own JR equipment using the DSM standard. JR will continue to manufacture, sell, and support DSM equipment in all markets currently allowed by agreement.
Are you saying that in the UK DSM2 is not availble to JR because of contractural issues with HH or because of the potential changes in law? It would seem to me that if you're so commited to DSM2 that this new radio (hate the looks BTW, should have stayed with the conventional layout) should be available in both DSMJ & DSM2.

I have been fighting the JR corner since the start but this statement has now unsettled me for sure.

J

No longer an active participant.

Offline Steve J

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And note Mr Takamura's guarded use of the word "currently". Does this perhaps imply impending change?

Give it a rest Brian.

Just out of curiosity, what other country (apart from Japan) doesn't allow DSM2 at the 100mW level ? 

Croatia
France only allows 100mW between 2400 & 2454 MHz
Greece
Portugal
Spain

(taken from the FAI site)

It would seem to me that if you're so commited to DSM2 that this new radio (hate the looks BTW, should have stayed with the conventional layout) should be available in both DSMJ & DSM2.

The XG7 looks like a 2720/DX7 with a different RF stage. Are you thinking about the 11X (which comes with a DSM2 module) ?

Steve

Offline Theaton56

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Quote
"WHERE DSM2 IS NOT AVAILABLE TO JR" would include any geographic area where Horizon has been marketing Spektrum to date and not JR as well, in that same area.

I think the light has just clicked on.  From what you are saying; where there is a DX5, DX6, DX7 and DX8, this is where the XG7 is going to be promoted as there is not a JR branded system in that arena.

LOL...   that's a global market then.

:)

Offline Theaton56

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Thanks Steve, didn't realise that Greece, Portugal and Spain were on the list !

Offline TonyKing

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Croatia
France only allows 100mW between 2400 & 2454 MHz
Greece
Portugal
Spain

(taken from the FAI site)

Oh Rollocks, I was going to convert my planes in spain to Spectrum 2.4 this Tuesday coming.   :'(


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Offline BrianB

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So Tony, it appears the plane in Spain is obviously now a pain....?  ;)
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Offline Steve J

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