money
RSS Facebook

RCMF

*

RCMF Donations

Enjoy using RCMF? How about a wee donation to help us keep you in the style to which you've become accustomed?

Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
June 27, 2019, 09:38:33 AM

Login with username, password and session length

Articles

Author Topic: couldnt hit within 5 miles, eh?  (Read 634 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Online itsme

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • RCMF Ace
  • ******
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 157
  • -Receive: 87
  • Posts: 21,913
  • Liked: 2414
  • Country: gb
  • BMFA Number: 30131
couldnt hit within 5 miles, eh?
« on: June 09, 2019, 09:33:16 AM »
http://ww2today.com/
for 9 June 1944 shows 617 squadron, under the control of markers from Leonard Cheshire, hitting a tunnel and railway lines with Tallboys. This prevented tanks from reaching the invading forces after D Day. So much for the idea the Lancasters could not hit a pin point target...


Offline PDR

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • RCMF Ace
  • ******
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 6
  • -Receive: 81
  • Posts: 22,999
  • Liked: 2545
  • Country: gb
  • Stupid is as stupid does. My mission is to stop it
  • BMFA Number: 63119
Re: couldnt hit within 5 miles, eh?
« Reply #1 on: June 09, 2019, 10:01:49 AM »
617 sqn were very much a special case with specially selected crews using different techniques, a different kind of bomb sight and much, MUCH more rigorous training than the rest of bomber command. Indeed the whole reason why Cheshire had to develop his own target marking techniques initially with a Lanc, but later with a Mossie and on that particular raid in a P51*, was because bomber command's specialist precision target marking unit (the Pathfinders) were hopelessly inaccurate for the degrees of precision required to make use of the tallboy and grand slam bombs.

So for the bulk of bomber command the sentiment is probably not that inaccurate.

PDR

There are no shortcuts on the long, hard road to success. But if your dad's rich there could a limo service...

Online itsme

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • RCMF Ace
  • ******
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 157
  • -Receive: 87
  • Posts: 21,913
  • Liked: 2414
  • Country: gb
  • BMFA Number: 30131
Re: couldnt hit within 5 miles, eh?
« Reply #2 on: June 09, 2019, 11:45:26 AM »
617 were also responsible for the Tirpitz, the Viaduct bombings and the lifting of the concrete dome covering V weapon factories. Why were they better equipped? Was it the Norden bombsight?


Offline PDR

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • RCMF Ace
  • ******
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 6
  • -Receive: 81
  • Posts: 22,999
  • Liked: 2545
  • Country: gb
  • Stupid is as stupid does. My mission is to stop it
  • BMFA Number: 63119
Re: couldnt hit within 5 miles, eh?
« Reply #3 on: June 09, 2019, 13:06:13 PM »
617 was hand-picked from the cream of bomber command crews to train for the specific raid. After Chastise they could have been disbanded (most of the crews were close to the end of their tours anyway) but it was decided to keep them together as a special-ops squadron who specialised in precision flying. To develop and maintain these skills they flew much more training missions and comparatively few operational missions. Most bomber command crews flew anything from 12 to 20 missions a month, 617 crews flew every day, but barely flew one operational mission a week (sometimes much less), focusing on the very high skill levels required to use their equipment and techniques effectively. If the rest of bomber command had operated in the same way the mission availability would have dropped by 90%, so it wasn't practicable. But they could maintain 617 as a specialist precision bombing unit for when extreme levels of accuracy were needed.

618sqn was a second hand-picked "elite" unit of mosquito crews, initially selected and trained in parallel with 617sqn as a specialist anti-shipping unit to use the smaller "highball" anti-ship weapon. Highball development fell behind and ultimately stopped because they couldn't find a way to make it maintain track on anything but the smoothest of water. The crews were then switched to training for carrier operations (after Winkle Brown developed techniques for flying mossies from carriers) and shipped out to Australia to become part of the "Tiger Force" for the invasion of Japan, but 618sqn never flew any operational missions and were disbanded at the end of the war. Their aircraft never even came home - they were sold for scrap in Australia.

PDR
There are no shortcuts on the long, hard road to success. But if your dad's rich there could a limo service...

Offline SteveBB

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • RCMF Ace
  • ******
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 77
  • -Receive: 194
  • Posts: 7,449
  • Liked: 494
  • Country: gb
  • I have left the surly bonds of Earth....
Re: couldnt hit within 5 miles, eh?
« Reply #4 on: June 09, 2019, 16:00:53 PM »
617 were also responsible for the Tirpitz, the Viaduct bombings and the lifting of the concrete dome covering V weapon factories. Why were they better equipped? Was it the Norden bombsight?


And the supergun that was buried underground.
Rimmer: Step up to Red Alert!
Kryten: Sir, are you absolutely sure? It does mean changing the bulb.


Offline Bad Raven

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • RCMF Ace
  • ******
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 65
  • -Receive: 27
  • Posts: 6,194
  • Liked: 432
  • Country: gb
Re: couldnt hit within 5 miles, eh?
« Reply #5 on: June 13, 2019, 11:57:42 AM »
The user formerly know as Bravedan........... Well if Prince can do it....................

Offline Tabsdad

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • RCMF Flight Lieutenant
  • **
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 0
  • -Receive: 0
  • Posts: 21
  • Liked: 2
  • Hello, I'm very new around here so please be kind!
Re: couldnt hit within 5 miles, eh?
« Reply #6 on: June 13, 2019, 13:01:31 PM »
Operation Jerico was another example of precision bombing but not 617 or 618 sqn.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2019, 13:02:36 PM by Tabsdad »


Online itsme

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • RCMF Ace
  • ******
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 157
  • -Receive: 87
  • Posts: 21,913
  • Liked: 2414
  • Country: gb
  • BMFA Number: 30131
Re: couldnt hit within 5 miles, eh?
« Reply #7 on: June 13, 2019, 14:04:13 PM »
Operation Jerico was another example of precision bombing but not 617 or 618 sqn.
No, that was a Mosquito attack, bouncing bombs along a road at zero feet. Brave men. It all went wrong next time they tried it, they took out a school full of kids..
The Tirpitz was a precision hit too, after four years of trying to sink it- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Catechism

Offline PDR

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • RCMF Ace
  • ******
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 6
  • -Receive: 81
  • Posts: 22,999
  • Liked: 2545
  • Country: gb
  • Stupid is as stupid does. My mission is to stop it
  • BMFA Number: 63119
Re: couldnt hit within 5 miles, eh?
« Reply #8 on: June 13, 2019, 15:01:27 PM »
No, that was a Mosquito attack,

Yes

Quote
bouncing bombs along a road at zero feet.

Err...no! The bouncing land-bomb was a piece of complete fiction invented for the film "Mosquito Squadron". Operation Jericho used conventional free-fall bombs, albeit with very long delay fuzes. The smaller, Mosquito-carried bouncing bomb (called "Highboy") was intended as an anti-shiip weapon, initially planed for use against the Tirpitz in Alta Fjord. 618 squadron was mustered and started training for that raid, but the Highboy was abandonned because they couldn't make it run stright over anything more than a millpond-smooth piece of water.

PDR
There are no shortcuts on the long, hard road to success. But if your dad's rich there could a limo service...


Online itsme

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • RCMF Ace
  • ******
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 157
  • -Receive: 87
  • Posts: 21,913
  • Liked: 2414
  • Country: gb
  • BMFA Number: 30131
Re: couldnt hit within 5 miles, eh?
« Reply #9 on: June 13, 2019, 15:49:28 PM »
Yes

Err...no! The bouncing land-bomb was a piece of complete fiction invented for the film "Mosquito Squadron". Operation Jericho used conventional free-fall bombs, albeit with very long delay fuzes. The smaller, Mosquito-carried bouncing bomb (called "Highboy") was intended as an anti-shiip weapon, initially planed for use against the Tirpitz in Alta Fjord. 618 squadron was mustered and started training for that raid, but the Highboy was abandonned because they couldn't make it run stright over anything more than a millpond-smooth piece of water.

PDR
No, not what I meant.  :co They used conventional bombs, 500 pounders, and 'bounced' them along the road with delayed action fuses. I know the Highboy was not ever used. Read all about it in the Rover when I was a kid! Squadron Leader Pickard was killed in that raid that actually did free a number of  resistance fighters...along with murderers, rapists and burglars! Using the same method in another raid caused a lot of collateral damage and I dont think they tried it again.

Offline meharibear

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • RCMF Ace
  • ******
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 36
  • -Receive: 30
  • Posts: 3,158
  • Liked: 340
  • Country: gb
Re: couldnt hit within 5 miles, eh?
« Reply #10 on: June 13, 2019, 18:17:04 PM »
"Highboy"?  I thought it was "Highball"?
Inside every old person is a young person wondering what happened.  (Terry Pratchett)

Offline PDR

  • Trade Count: (+1)
  • RCMF Ace
  • ******
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 6
  • -Receive: 81
  • Posts: 22,999
  • Liked: 2545
  • Country: gb
  • Stupid is as stupid does. My mission is to stop it
  • BMFA Number: 63119
Re: couldnt hit within 5 miles, eh?
« Reply #11 on: June 13, 2019, 20:27:09 PM »
It was - I was trying to type a discrete answer whilst in a very boring meeting.

PDR
There are no shortcuts on the long, hard road to success. But if your dad's rich there could a limo service...

Online itsme

  • Trade Count: (0)
  • RCMF Ace
  • ******
  • Thank You
  • -Given: 157
  • -Receive: 87
  • Posts: 21,913
  • Liked: 2414
  • Country: gb
  • BMFA Number: 30131
Re: couldnt hit within 5 miles, eh?
« Reply #12 on: June 13, 2019, 23:49:32 PM »
It was - I was trying to type a discrete answer whilst in a very boring meeting.

PDR
ha ha - I missed that one!


 

BloQcs design by Bloc
SMF 2.0.2 | SMF © 2011, Simple Machines
SMFAds for Free Forums
TinyPortal © 2005-2012
Page created in 0.47 seconds with 56 queries.