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Offline discus.fly

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Recommendations Required
« on: August 28, 2017, 18:08:23 PM »
Having seen a HK votex racing quad zipping around our flying field tempted to get into the action.

Any recommendations as to goggles and craft without damaging the bank balance?


Offline 2.4G Shaun

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Re: Recommendations Required
« Reply #1 on: August 28, 2017, 20:01:08 PM »
I've had a lot of quads and FPV gear over the last 10 years so based on that here you go.

Hobbyking Quanum Cyclops V2 Goggles     Great value for money, and if you wear glasses they fit underneath. I have them and prefer them to Fat Sharks for the viewing experience.
www.hobbyking.com/en_us/quanum-cyclops-v2-fpv-goggle.html

And from Radio C  ready to fly frame machined from HDPE, almost indestructible and  virtually the same weight as a Carbon frame. You will spend far less time repairing when learning to FPV -  I have one of these as well

https://www.radioc.co.uk/ragge-200h-FPV-Racing-Drone-ARF-p/6566.htm

Cheers

Shaun

Offline Bad Raven

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Re: Recommendations Required
« Reply #2 on: August 29, 2017, 06:54:19 AM »
Hi,

Firstly, you can consider yourself either lucky that you are (hopefully) joining Quad flying at a time when so much is available, or you can consider yourself unlucky due to the bewildering and ever changing choice!

Been around quads since before the earliest part of the surge to FPV, so I offer the following:-

1. If possible AVOID buying any quad with a CMOS FPV camera, CCD is much much better and don't balk at the (reducing) price difference. If a CMOS equipped quad is otherwise good value, great, but plan on and factor in changing the camera and maybe the Video Transmitter soon.

2. I too only use headsets, though with a fair bit of customisation. I normally wear glasses, but do not have to now for FPV, a big advantage on fitting and taking the headset off.

3. Use a diversity receiver on the Headset if at all possible, and usually you do get what you pay for in terms of quality of image.

4. While the current UK legal max for air to ground video is 25mW output, if poss buy a switchable unit that gives more. I am NOT advocating breaking the law, but having the flexibility if (when!) the law changes.

4. If you have not flown quads, buy an Eachine E010 from Banggood and give it a thrashing in the house, garden, quiet woodland corner. Better than any simulator and cheaper! If you want to jump straight to FPV then the KingKong Tiny6 from the same place is even better.


I suggest you watch a few of Bruce's reviews (rcjet) on YouTube. There is one on the Cyclops.  After trying out several makes of headset, I have settled on a GearBest sold unit but modded a lot so I will not recommend it as is. With a little effort you can get a £100-£200 spend to better the most expensive Fat Sharks, etc. Goggles to me look like looking down a pair of binoculars the wrong way!  Try to find a way to try out goggles/headsets. What area are you from?

Personally, I could not recommend RadioC. Several orders, spread out over time, and yet not one was fulfilled without issues like delays, missing or wrong items. Hopefully I was unlucky.

I have recommended in the past the EMax range, in my circle one bought the 280, another the 200 after trying out mine (I have more than 25 Quads). Both have over time been improved by the owners as to spec, mostly FPV camera and VTX wise, but they are tough traditional frames that will take a beating. Both bought from RCLife. The frame Shaun recommends is also good.

Good Luck!
The user formerly know as Bravedan........... Well if Prince can do it....................


Offline discus.fly

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Re: Recommendations Required
« Reply #3 on: August 29, 2017, 18:21:33 PM »
Thanks for the suggestions. Obviously fpv is not going to be cheap.

Have a video system which I procured last year for a glider so will complete that installation just to see what the imagery looks like before lashing out on dual Rx goggles.

Offline paulinfrance

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Re: Recommendations Required
« Reply #4 on: August 29, 2017, 18:32:26 PM »
I use these Goggles https://www.banggood.com/Eachine-Goggles-Two-5-Inches-5_8G-40CH-Raceband-HD-1080p-HDMI-FPV-Goggles-Video-Glasses-p-1094862.html?rmmds=search

I have tried all sorts from £50 to £450 so try them before buying, try to borrow some to see which suite you best, the only problem with my head set is I had to modify them as I need glasses to read, any easy job, as said tx switchable, I use 200 mw, no more or you will interfere with the other flyers.
 I have a couple of Eachine racers, they aren't bad and spares are cheap, if you can meet some flyers BEFORE buying one, do it, as you will need their help programming it later on.
 And yes Bruce also does 'rcmodelreviews' are good to watch with lots of information, and 'Joshua Bardwell'
 
 good luck and have fun,,
 
Mode 2 THE only way to fly


Offline dogshome

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Re: Recommendations Required
« Reply #5 on: September 03, 2017, 20:30:34 PM »
Goggles 2 here also!

I'm flying an Eachine Lizard (fabulous micro about £110 all-up) and a Quanum Outlaw 270 (£150 including battery, RX, good camera and vtx). Both are super easy to fly in normal (stabilization) mode and both will hurtle in air mode. The Lizard in particular will take a severe beating. You need brick or concrete to really hurt it. Both will fly in wind with equal authority.

The Lizard is limited by it's transmitter, I get at least 200M in all directions in open ground, so don't worry really. That is a very long way away for something so tiny.

The 270 takes 'standard' video and transmitter gear, so the quality is better. It also lasts longer in the air. Figure 5 mins absolute max with the Lizard and nearer 10 on the 270.

25mW will get you a very long way in open fields. 200M or very much more depending on antenna. Because the '80s Composite Video (analogue) we use, means more mW is better though. It's a sliding scale and 200 or 600 mW will get you well out of LOS range at height. For racing, 25mW is fine and stops problems interfering with your mates.
肉(rņu)包(bāo)子(zi)打(dǎ)狗(gǒu) (meat+bun(2nd and 3rd)+hit+dog)
Literally: To hit a dog with a meat-bun

Offline paulinfrance

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Re: Recommendations Required
« Reply #6 on: September 04, 2017, 07:24:34 AM »
Not over here, all on 200 wm,,,
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Offline dogshome

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Re: Recommendations Required
« Reply #7 on: September 04, 2017, 19:53:06 PM »
The Outlaw is back in stock at the end of October. I'll be buying another for the £80 or so asking price  :af

200mW gives a lot more options. Particularly around trees and in damp weather. Hopefully we'll get low latency digital video soon. Then the mW don't have so much of an effect and it opens up many more channel slots. Standard TV quality on composite analogue is 5MHz bandwidth. At 5GHz that's a hell of a lot. Trouble is, video compression needs some powerful processing and the technology isn't there yet to spew it out in 10s of mS and 10s of mA. 100mS delay would be really noticeable to try to fly with. 1000W of desktop processing power might be a problem to lift on a small quad  :embarassed:

肉(rņu)包(bāo)子(zi)打(dǎ)狗(gǒu) (meat+bun(2nd and 3rd)+hit+dog)
Literally: To hit a dog with a meat-bun

Offline discus.fly

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Re: Recommendations Required
« Reply #8 on: September 12, 2017, 19:26:33 PM »
Thanks guys, lots of good advice.  Making some progress on assessing if the FPV concept works for me.  For that purpose have installed a cheap camera and 5.8GHz Tx in my Cularis glider and now await an DALRC OSD unit before attempting any flights.


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Re: Recommendations Required
« Reply #9 on: September 12, 2017, 19:40:35 PM »
'If' you can record your first flight, do it and fly it while watching it without your goggles,
and do left and right circuits, then when you get home Watch the video,
 it will give you a perception of the model field, and of course 'finals', landing distances and speed. :af
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Offline dogshome

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Re: Recommendations Required
« Reply #10 on: September 14, 2017, 22:20:58 PM »
When you switch into 'Air' mode, be prepared for:

* Blue / Green / Blue / Green / Blue/ Green etc.
* Nausea.
* Feelings of being thrown out of an aircraft with a particularly wild jetpack attached.

Keep your finger over the mode switch and feel the relief in stabilised mode. All good fun  :af

Stabilised mode is like flying a Junior 60, except you are in it and that takes some acclimatisation. Rate mode is more like being in a WOT4. Air mode, is well, keep your finger on the mode switch is my best advice  :ev

My Lizard in air mode is slightly frightening. The Quanum 270 is scary. What the new Tanstec Lightning will be like is probably going to need some practice. Welcome to FPV. It's really good fun and will test your LOS / normal RC flying in ways you have not imagined  :af


I think modifying a glider may put you off. That is quite difficult. Quads are extremely easy to fly and if you want to go FPV I would recommend getting one. In your glider, you have no stabilisation, the possibility of causing damage and you must keep the airspeed up. Quads fly like aircraft, but you can stop, have a minute and then fly on. They don't stall. They bounce if you hit the runway /tree / earth and simply pick up and fly again.

I'm going to try FPV on my Zagi this weekend and I know it is much more difficult than a quad. Zagis are easy LOS I know. In the cockpit is another story! Buy a quad to try FPV. Fixed wing is a LOT more difficult  :'(
« Last Edit: September 14, 2017, 22:42:53 PM by dogshome »
肉(rņu)包(bāo)子(zi)打(dǎ)狗(gǒu) (meat+bun(2nd and 3rd)+hit+dog)
Literally: To hit a dog with a meat-bun

Offline discus.fly

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Re: Recommendations Required
« Reply #11 on: September 21, 2017, 19:17:31 PM »
Bit more progress made, the gear is now installed and have just purchased some SKY01 goggles.  However think the glider may not be a suitable test airframe as up high the glider could be easily lost.  Thinking a CriCri design in Depron may be an instersting build so have scaled up a plan to ~1.4m wing span and printed it off today. After all how long cant it take to scratch build an airframe!

Offline lanicopter

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Re: Recommendations Required
« Reply #12 on: September 24, 2017, 17:10:11 PM »
Personally I find flying planes much more relaxing than multirotors, it just feels more natural .. yes they don't stop, but if push comes to shove just keep the throttle at 1/2 an steer, it's only going to go forwards.
Current fuel status: "Master Caution"

Offline discus.fly

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Re: Recommendations Required
« Reply #13 on: September 24, 2017, 17:36:48 PM »
Personally I find flying planes much more relaxing than multirotors, it just feels more natural .. yes they don't stop, but if push comes to shove just keep the throttle at 1/2 an steer, it's only going to go forwards.
If only all fixed wing flying was that easy!

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Re: Recommendations Required
« Reply #14 on: September 26, 2017, 18:44:28 PM »
Is anyone using a DALRC OSD. Have issues regarding the settings.

Offline dogshome

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Re: Recommendations Required
« Reply #15 on: October 06, 2017, 21:37:58 PM »
Still learning. Loops on a quad need different inputs. DO NOT throttle up to go over the top.....

Mods to air / alwaystabilized in rate mode means 50% expo. Horizon mode is a waste of time to me. Going to 'air' or 'acro' needs some desensitisation. I'm not convinced fixed wing is easier to fly FPV as it all depends on the electronics and settings. Quad in auto-level mode is extremely easy to fly, once you have the responses to wind dialled-in to your brain.

It's like flying a 50cc plus model. Very realistic. If you are going sideways, it's because the wind is pushing you that way. From the ground, you see it and correct, in the air you see something different and learn to correct that with aileron and rudder instead.

The quad won't do a knife-edge loop or hover inverted. It does 'feel' like a human-sized jetpack via the goggles though. Which is great fun  :co
肉(rņu)包(bāo)子(zi)打(dǎ)狗(gǒu) (meat+bun(2nd and 3rd)+hit+dog)
Literally: To hit a dog with a meat-bun

Offline paulinfrance

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Re: Recommendations Required
« Reply #16 on: October 07, 2017, 06:41:24 AM »
Mode 2 THE only way to fly


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Re: Recommendations Required
« Reply #17 on: October 07, 2017, 17:29:30 PM »
Had a go yesterday flying for a few seconds using FPV fitted to my Colaris. Not at all easy is it!  Will have to swap the gear to a much slower airframe as found the glider covered too much ground in a few seconds of flight.

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Re: Recommendations Required
« Reply #18 on: October 08, 2017, 09:23:40 AM »
Semi tempted to purchase a Quanum Outlaw 180 from HK but can find little details as to the CC3D FC packaged with this deal.  Note open pilot has also been discontinued.  So is this FC any good?  The ideal FC would be one with a baro and compass.

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Re: Recommendations Required
« Reply #19 on: October 08, 2017, 14:37:57 PM »
As said

" All electronics is provided on the same board this includes the 20A Afro Race Spec ESCs, CC3D flight controller (running Openpilot) and power distribution"

 I installed the newer version of libre pilot GCS around 4 months ago and I am running that, I have Betaflight, but too scared to try it out, the last "expert" that tried it blocked the card,,,
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Re: Recommendations Required
« Reply #20 on: October 08, 2017, 17:46:46 PM »
Paul, does the Quanum Outlaw 180 CC3D FC from HK come with a micro USB port.  Hard to tell from the blurb.  Also not convinced the board has multiple sensors such as compass and pressure.

Did download librepilot just to see what the inerface looks like as open pilot links are now dead.

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Re: Recommendations Required
« Reply #21 on: October 08, 2017, 17:56:15 PM »
They all (cc3d ) seem to have the same plug on them, mini usb, but no compass and pressure,
don't forget it's a drone racer at less than  £100  :''
Mode 2 THE only way to fly

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Re: Recommendations Required
« Reply #22 on: October 09, 2017, 22:41:57 PM »
Barometer and Magnetometer IMO are completely pointless on acro/race quad, as is RTB, etc, they all just add issues and potential for latency.
The user formerly know as Bravedan........... Well if Prince can do it....................

Offline dogshome

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Re: Recommendations Required
« Reply #23 on: October 15, 2017, 19:31:09 PM »
肉(rņu)包(bāo)子(zi)打(dǎ)狗(gǒu) (meat+bun(2nd and 3rd)+hit+dog)
Literally: To hit a dog with a meat-bun

Offline dogshome

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Re: Recommendations Required
« Reply #24 on: October 15, 2017, 19:39:59 PM »
Paul, does the Quanum Outlaw 180 CC3D FC from HK come with a micro USB port.  Hard to tell from the blurb.  Also not convinced the board has multiple sensors such as compass and pressure.

Did download librepilot just to see what the inerface looks like as open pilot links are now dead.

CC3D has gyros and that's it. No barometer, no GPS (adding GPS is a trial) and you have to fly it! That's the same for all racing drones and they are great fun. In default, stabilised mode they fly like a Junior 60 and you'll need that. No, Aircraft ARE NOT easier in FPV despite following their nose. The Quanum 180 or 270 in default flight mode is very forgiving. Quads fly like a fixed wing (high wing trainer) with the bonus that it can't stall.

Flick the thing into air mode and prepare for immediate responses. Quads are cheap to crash and you will need that once you get out of stabilised mode.

All the flight controller programming packages are similar, Libre Pilot, Open Pilot, INAV, Betaflight, Cleanflight etc. They all look like the same code, but with some logo changes and slightly different features. Open Pilot is gone. The CC3D on Libre Pilot is perfectly fine for starting out and for intermediate / advanced flyers. All baords have USB connectivity one way or another. Either mini, micro or via an adaptor which comes with it.

Learning to fly FPV on a plank is difficult. On a Quad it's less stressful. FPV heli - don't go there!
« Last Edit: October 15, 2017, 20:20:48 PM by dogshome »
肉(rņu)包(bāo)子(zi)打(dǎ)狗(gǒu) (meat+bun(2nd and 3rd)+hit+dog)
Literally: To hit a dog with a meat-bun

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Re: Recommendations Required
« Reply #25 on: November 08, 2017, 19:35:43 PM »
Now have a 250 quad but given the outside temperatures are getting colder, rain and high winds the thoughts of indoor flying seem to be a good idea. So what nano drone does the group recommend to improve ones flying skills?

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Re: Recommendations Required
« Reply #26 on: November 09, 2017, 11:30:05 AM »
King Kong Tiny6 or Tiny7.
The user formerly know as Bravedan........... Well if Prince can do it....................

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Re: Recommendations Required
« Reply #27 on: November 09, 2017, 18:13:02 PM »
Been through the HK site and can find no reference to a tiny6 or 7. Can you expand on the product name please.


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Re: Recommendations Required
« Reply #29 on: November 10, 2017, 18:56:08 PM »
Had a go yesterday flying for a few seconds using FPV fitted to my Colaris. Not at all easy is it!  Will have to swap the gear to a much slower airframe as found the glider covered too much ground in a few seconds of flight.

A lot of people struggle with this - fact is, you can cover much more ground (and you will :) ) so adjust the mindset .. commit to the goggles, don't attempt to keep switching between FPV/LoS during the flight as it'll go pear shaped. You'll probably notice that instead of doing 10m radius turns, you end up doing 100m ones while under the goggles simply because you can fly the aircraft much more naturally.
Current fuel status: "Master Caution"


 

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