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Author Topic: Leccy Lanc XI  (Read 168205 times)

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Offline BalsaDust

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Re: Leccy Lanc XI
« Reply #80 on: February 27, 2006, 14:08:08 PM »
Hi Walts - sorry had to get back to work ...... I've got some of the Graupner 8*4's which I don't think are as good as the APC's .... just a personal opinion

I think you would be better off in the long run modding the gearboxes to take other props, but the Lipoly route is one that even I may take up !

regards
BD


Offline Walts

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Re: Leccy Lanc XI
« Reply #81 on: February 27, 2006, 16:05:01 PM »
Hi Walts - sorry had to get back to work ...... I've got some of the Graupner 8*4's which I don't think are as good as the APC's .... just a personal opinion



Whoops! to late, still as you say the important thing is to change the gear boxes first. Then i can play with what props i like after that :af

Walts

Offline lavers

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Re: Leccy Lanc XI
« Reply #82 on: February 27, 2006, 16:39:29 PM »
Hi Walts,
I've got lipos in mine and the difference is obvious with regard to watts per lb voltage etc, and I've no doubt that when I get the time and the weather that she'll lift off but remember that if you go the lipo route you might have to add weight to get her to balance :o :o (depending where your extra weight is of course) mine has an all up of 7lb 4 oz and 5 oz of that is the extra lead I've had to add do get her to balance :o

Just thought I'd add something else for you to worry about :af

By the way guys, It's took a while for me to find out but on the second attempt at a test flight when I crashed the Lanc I was using a different TX to what I would normally use and I found out the other day that the aerolons where set to reverse. So when she took off I gave her a touch of left and she went right, I thought she was piling in because she was heavy but I've realised it was pilot error and the more left I gave her the more she went right into the deck. Don't know if she would have had the power to do the initial banking left had they been set up right but I'll never know will I ;D

I've had a whole week and all the time in the world to get her airborne but the weather has been atrocious all week, not one good day, even put me off a couple of games of golf so must have been bad :(
Anyway the Mrs has gone back to work today and this morning was perfect, sods law that is :'(
Never mind it will soon be light nights and we'll all get some in,

Regards

John


Offline Walts

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Re: Leccy Lanc XI
« Reply #83 on: February 27, 2006, 17:56:11 PM »
Hi John
        I was wondering how you were getting on with yours.
The lipo's isn't really an option for me right now, i would need a better charger as well, so add that to the cost of the battery and :o Plus as you say the weight saved would have to go back as ballast as my batteries are touching the nose!
I think that even if the gear box conversion & new props do improve things to any great extent i will need to up grade my battery to a higher capacity, as the larger prop is going to hammer my 2400,s. I'll stick with Nimh in any case to keep the balance right.
If the bits turn up tomorrow I'll get started on the boxes.

Walts

Offline SimonC

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Re: Leccy Lanc XI
« Reply #84 on: February 27, 2006, 20:23:39 PM »
Hi Folks,

been following the battery discussion and thought I would add my 2 cents worth....

I tried to use a 10 cell NiCd to run my set-up (4x400s in parallel through a 2.3:1 gear box and 8x6 APCs). The one time I got up to full throttle, I was pulling 48 amps, for a few seconds, then the controller cut out and was it hot!  I never managed to get that high again.....

On polling the combined wisdom, I changed my set up: 

I rewired the inners motors and the outers on separate parallel circuits and ran each with a dedicated 2000 mAh 3s LiPo battery and ESC. They ran superbly pulling about 22 amps with little voltage drop resulting in over 220W per circuit or 440W combined.  The props were rotating at ~6700 rpm which I hope to increase following balancing and cleaning the blades up.

While the voltage and current are high I reckon that full throttle will only be used in my first few flights at take-off until it trimed out so the motor life should not be too short...

I do not intend to use a separate Rx battery and have tested the system using one of the ESC to power the Rx.  The throttle connection is through a y-lead with the outer circuit red wire disconnected so only one ESC supplies power to the Rx.

The weight of the two 2000 mAh Lipos is about 1/2 of the 10x2200 I was using, so I should get increased duration and reduced weight! Well worth exploring if you are heavy on the scales. Also running at 10-12 C for short burst and 8C? cruising, should extend the life of the LiPos considerably.

Now on the balancing question, I refitted my Hurricanne to use one of the LiPo (was 7x2200 NiCd before).  The battery was about 40% of the weight so I thought there would be a balance problem but the LiPo is so small that by fitting it sideways and pushing as far forward as possible, it came out almost identical.  I use a plane cofg balance which is very accurate and added 50g of lead, hardly worth the effort really.

So... Essentially due to their compact size if you can get the battery as far forward in the nose , there should not be much need for lead. I am currently modifying the battery compartment and access to do this.  Given the build stage I am at there should not be an issue, though a finished model is a different proposition...

The all up cost of this change was about $220 so it not a cheap option, but given the alternative of not being able to fly the plane with confidence, I think it was worth it. A charger would add to this, of course.

As a side note, I am progressively changing all my planes over to similar weight LiPos which give about three times the duration.

Simon

 


Offline Walts

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Re: Leccy Lanc XI
« Reply #85 on: February 27, 2006, 21:02:47 PM »
Hi Simon
         Loads more info there, giving even more options :af
Can you refresh my memory, are you building the nexus Lanc or the Priory Lanc, are the gear boxes the multiplex ones, or is their a better alternative, and what AUW are you heading for.
Still don't think i can afford the lipo route just yet, but 440W hmmmm. that sounds useful.

Walts.

p.s. What controller was you using when you was pulling 48amps?
« Last Edit: February 27, 2006, 21:06:54 PM by Walts »

Offline SimonC

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Re: Leccy Lanc XI
« Reply #86 on: February 27, 2006, 23:09:27 PM »
Hi Walt,

I'm building the Nexus one.  Being stuck in the middle fo the Pacific Ocean (not that I'm complaining) I'm a bit limited for model shops so almost all my gear is bought online and mostly from Tower Hobbies, who while good are a bit limited in choices.  I've put links to various items I bought below.

The gearboxes are super light and as the pinnion is an internal gear the motor does not need to be reversed. It does make mounting them up a bit more interesting though....

The servos below are really good and could help your weight reduction a bit.

Hope this helps

Simon


--------------------------


Gear boxes:

http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&W=000719896&I=LXEMZ8&P=K

50 amp controller:

http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&W=000719896&I=LXZJ18&P=K

30 amp LiPo controller:

http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&W=000719896&I=LXKZZ2&P=K

Other useful links:

mini servos (the torque to weight ratio of these is the best I have seen at low cost.):

http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&W=000719896&I=LM3253&P=K

Lightweight wheels:

http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&W=000719896&I=LXAZF2&P=K



Offline Walts

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Re: Leccy Lanc XI
« Reply #87 on: February 27, 2006, 23:27:39 PM »
Those planetary gear boxes are interesting, bet they push the motors way back in the nacelles. Look a good solid construction though, with metal gears, dam sight better than the weedy multiplex jobs
Interesting seeing what others are using :)

Cheers Walts

Offline SimonC

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Re: Leccy Lanc XI
« Reply #88 on: February 28, 2006, 02:04:37 AM »
Hi Walt,

the gear is not planetary as they are really expensive and heavy.  Its a pinnion interfacing with an internal gear on the prop side.  The internal gear is plastic of some sorts but appears more than up to the job. You are right though the motors do move back a bit at least compared to the  original direct drive gunther arrangement.

I meant to add that the scares stories of last year on weight build-up got me started down this route. When I got a accurate set of scales I started weighing everything and it looked like I was heading for 6 1/2lb unpainted.  Changing the batteries and the wheels, pulled 3/4 lb off the weight which should mean I'm around 5 3/4lb for test flights and 6 1/2lb with paint and (limited) detailing. I always try and fly my planes first in the unfinished condition just in case.... A throw back to my old free flight days!  ;)

Cheers

Simon


Offline lavers

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Re: Leccy Lanc XI
« Reply #89 on: February 28, 2006, 08:40:58 AM »
Hi Simon,
Same set up as me but I couldn't get my ESC's to work as an independant power source for the RX, they wouldn't set (same make). In the end I had use two different makes and just to be safe I've used a seperate battery for the RX.

My battteries 6s2p 3600amph are placed as far forward as they can physically go (flush and lying vertical against the rear of the nose dome) and I've still had to add weight, so I wouldn't count your chickens before they get bird flu!!

Sounds good though :af

John

Offline SteveM

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Re: Leccy Lanc XI
« Reply #90 on: February 28, 2006, 12:11:14 PM »
Hi, guys,

It's been some time since we had a picture posted on this thread, tried but can't do it!  Has the procedure changed with the new format???

Steve

Offline Walts

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Re: Leccy Lanc XI
« Reply #91 on: February 28, 2006, 15:19:33 PM »
Hi Steve,
         Havn't got a clue ??? If i want to post a pic these days i get my misses to use a hosting service and paste it into the reply. But this don't help you much does it ::)

Walts

Offline BalsaDust

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Re: Leccy Lanc XI
« Reply #92 on: February 28, 2006, 15:49:00 PM »
Hi guys,
if you go to the homepage of the forum and look for the "gallery" button, and push it, it will take you, strangely enough, to the gallery - where after you've registered/logged on, you can upload files.

It's a straight forward process and you can copy & paste the URL of the image into your forum message.

There's a thread in the "System Messages" section that might be of help ...

or as Walts says upload to your own webspace and link from your message to there - that's what I do  :af

regards
BD

Offline Walts

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Re: Leccy Lanc XI
« Reply #93 on: February 28, 2006, 17:59:40 PM »
Well, nothing from the postie today, so my gear boxes will have to wait  :(

Still it gave me a chance to do a bit more on the Camel :)

Walts

Offline SimonC

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Re: Leccy Lanc XI
« Reply #94 on: February 28, 2006, 23:41:44 PM »
Well, those of us with motor/battery problems could always change to this:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=6039595393&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&rd=1


 :D :D ;)

Offline SimonC

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Re: Leccy Lanc XI
« Reply #95 on: March 01, 2006, 01:56:21 AM »
HI John,

I'll let you know on the cofg as soon as I have the lanc on the balance...

Hi Simon,
Same set up as me but I couldn't get my ESC's to work as an independant power source for the RX, they wouldn't set (same make). In the end I had use two different makes and just to be safe I've used a seperate battery for the RX.
John

Did you disconnect the red wire from one of the ESC's?  If not they would both be trying to power the Rx.  I did this with my GWS ones and the and the Rx power up without trouble. There is no sign of glitching even though my wiring is all over the place at the moment.... though that may be down to using a dual conversion Rx.

Cheers

Simon

Offline lavers

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Re: Leccy Lanc XI
« Reply #96 on: March 01, 2006, 09:16:37 AM »
Hi Simon,
yea I've disconnected one of the wires but no joy. Even took the Lanc and the ESC's to my local model shop to see the "expert" and even he was well baffled. They will set perfectly well on thier own but connect them both to a RX and only one would set ??? Anyway I solved it by using two different make of controllers, one 30 amp for the outboards and one 50 amp for the inners, seems to work well.


Can't wait for some good weather, I'm actually looking forward to super detaling the Lanc but just as yourself I want to see her fly first.

Regards

John


Offline Walts

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Re: Leccy Lanc XI
« Reply #97 on: March 01, 2006, 09:28:30 AM »
Well, those of us with motor/battery problems could always change to this:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=6039595393&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&rd=1


 :D :D ;)


And knowing my luck, i would'nt have a strong enough rubber band to make it fly ;D ;D

Offline SteveM

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Re: Leccy Lanc XI
« Reply #98 on: March 01, 2006, 09:42:11 AM »
BD,

Thanks - here goes:



Blotchy finish on fins is the Primer/glass treatment I described earlier - looks horrible but believe me the finish is smooth as glass!  Note also the Unitracts legs, underfuse held on with tape until I get my Robart air tank (come on Galaxy models).

Since it is pretty much all there apart from Rx, props and batteries, I think I might take a deep breath and weigh it!


Steve

Offline SteveM

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Re: Leccy Lanc XI
« Reply #99 on: March 01, 2006, 09:51:41 AM »
I knew it wouldn't work first time - try again



Steve

Offline Walts

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Re: Leccy Lanc XI
« Reply #100 on: March 01, 2006, 09:52:18 AM »
Steve, i don't see it! your teasing me :D

Offline SteveM

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Re: Leccy Lanc XI
« Reply #101 on: March 01, 2006, 09:58:29 AM »
Huh,
just cannot get it to paste into the thread.  OK, just click on this link and you'll go to the gallery.

Steve



http://www.rcmf.co.uk/gallery/displayimage.php?album=7&pos=44

Offline Walts

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Re: Leccy Lanc XI
« Reply #102 on: March 01, 2006, 10:27:08 AM »
Hi Steve,
         Looks really, really good! Captures the atmosphere of the Lancaster really well, even in the "bare" wood state. Can't wait to see this one finished :af

Still can't help you with the upload though :D

Walts

Offline lavers

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Re: Leccy Lanc XI
« Reply #103 on: March 01, 2006, 12:55:50 PM »
looks good Steve,

OK how did you do the legs? I will be wanting to scale mine and they look good, would appreciate if you gave the gen on what materials you used etc,

Cheers

John

PS where's Gordon, been two pages of spiel and no input ;) not been abducted have you Gordon :co

Offline SteveM

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Re: Leccy Lanc XI
« Reply #104 on: March 01, 2006, 14:00:17 PM »
Walts,

Thanks for the compliment, I'm sure you remember that all the visible structure is glassclothed - wings and fus have not yet had the 'primer and final rub-down' that the fins and tailplane have had.

Lavers,

My landing gear is a custom-modified Unitracts item with dual damped oleos on each side.  Unitracts modded it from a set they make for the Mosquito.  To be perfectly honest, I wouldn't really do that again - they cost over 200 and, although I haven't handled the Eurokits gear that most are using, I'm sure mine are much heavier.  What drove me down this route was a fear that the single wire leg modified with 'dummy' second leg brazed-on together with cross braces etc. would all fall apart on the first landing.  Those who have flown units like this seem to have proved me wrong, though!

I believe Walts was looking at buying Eurokits twin oleo legs which look as though they can be fitted in place of the single wire leg but he baulked at the increased weight.  From the photo's on their website they look even more realistic than the Unitracts oleos, being more 'sculpted' rather than simply 2 tubes - am I right, Walts?

Steve

Offline Walts

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Re: Leccy Lanc XI
« Reply #105 on: March 01, 2006, 16:35:24 PM »
Hi Steve,
          Yes i did realise it was glassed, thats why i said "bare" not Bare, :ev I was referring to the lack of paint mate :af
I did actually make some double oleo struts using Eurokit legs last year, but couldn't get the nice sculptured ones at the time, so mine are similar to yours.
I changed back to wire legs once i realised how bad the weight situation was and saved half a pound near enough :o
John I've attached a pic of the converted Eurokit legs i used, but apart from the obvious weight penalty, which you may be able to carry, The mini Euro kit retract units struggle to lift the weight of the double strut u/c even with out the air lines being restricted.

Walts 




p.s. I found this link posted in another thread by Fenland Flyer for some oleo legs. FF says he thinks the guy is turning them up, but they are remarkably like the new'er Eurokit legs. No good for the lanc though, as they are 130mm or 140mm. Mine were 110mm and still needed cutting down to size,great price though for a futre project :af

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Aluminium-Sprung-Oleo-Legs_W0QQitemZ6038768082QQcategoryZ19164QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
« Last Edit: March 01, 2006, 16:55:51 PM by Walts »

Offline lavers

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Re: Leccy Lanc XI
« Reply #106 on: March 01, 2006, 16:54:09 PM »
Thanks Guys,
Metal wire legs it is then, might have a go at tarting some wire up to make it look a bit scale, let you know how I get on. I could build quite a few good models for 200 Steve, It would be awful to fit a model with so much expense and then watch it drop out of the sky, so make sure it flies mate :af

Cheers

John

Offline CraigO

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Re: Leccy Lanc XI
« Reply #107 on: March 02, 2006, 01:04:57 AM »
what i think you shold do is set up a set of display legs and wheels and a really really light set to use for flying.

the total weight of the UC legs i built for my lanc is less than 2.4 oz.  that is the weight of both legs together.  ie each one weighs about an ounce.  the wheels are only 12gms each.

I would be looking as hard as i could to loose weight at all costs.  Duration of engine run means nothing if it only trundles along the ground :)  I would rather fly for only a couple of minutes rather than have a prop driven off road penguin.  ( a penguin is the affectionate name the WW1 training pilots gave to the machines that they trained on which were not meant to fly but give them practice in high speed taxiing) :)

Cheers

Craig

Offline Walts

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Re: Leccy Lanc XI
« Reply #108 on: March 02, 2006, 11:06:27 AM »
Cheers Craig,
 Now where's those mossie pic's before you disappear again :D :D :)

Offline Walts

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Re: Leccy Lanc XI
« Reply #109 on: March 03, 2006, 19:57:39 PM »
Hi guy's
        I've spent the day modifying the Multiplex gear boxes to accept a standard prop adapter. I then fitted the rather strange looking Graupner 8x6 cam slim props that i bought. After charging the battery i re tested the set up, rather disappointing results I'm afraid. The amps were up a bit at 40A, but the battery was still getting pulled down to 8V, so= 42w/lbs.
I am now seriously considering a 10 cell, as if that gets dragged down to around 10V I'll still get around 400W giving 53w/lbs.
I've posed the question on another thread to try and gain some more feed back,Like i said there, I'm not worried about testing the motors to destruction, there cheap enough, but i would like to exhaust all possibilities from this set up before considering a radical change.
Still at least I'm now free to experiment with different props. Posted a couple of pics in case they are of any interest to anyone else considering the same.

Regards Walts




I could really have done with cutting the main gear boss back a lot further, but the pitch on  these weird props goes way back past the prop boss, so i had to make sure the blades would clear the cowl (I'm sure there not what i ordered :-\}



« Last Edit: March 03, 2006, 22:15:33 PM by Walts »

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Re: Leccy Lanc XI
« Reply #110 on: March 05, 2006, 21:13:42 PM »
Hi Guys...wow, wot a lot of goings on since I was last here!  Walts...impressive work there, I'm certainly interested in the upshot of your mods.   :af  When I've time I'm going to run mine again with the 3300MAh pack to checkout the voltage drop...I still think that 4500MAh pack I have is now faulty, since I remember it giving me in the region of 350Watts last year (would have made sense too since the 50A ESC would have easily handled it).  In the meantime SWMBO has let me loose in getting my new model workshop ready today.....my daughter and I spent all this afternoon getting it ready.....!!



Ok Wiz...wot u done with the 15Kb upload facility that used to be on here???   :(
« Last Edit: March 05, 2006, 22:10:31 PM by Gordon »

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Re: Leccy Lanc XI
« Reply #111 on: March 07, 2006, 22:18:00 PM »
Hi Gordon,
         what you's been up to lately, apart from making a rather 'cool' looking work shop ;D
I've been playing with some half baked ideas, as usual ::)
I'll be back soon either with a success story or no eye brows and frizzy hair :ev

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Re: Leccy Lanc XI
« Reply #112 on: March 08, 2006, 08:43:21 AM »
Hi Walts,
Everything quite on the Western Front, not much happening with me due to the quite silly weather we've been having. The snow finally left yesterday only to be replaced with rain and it's forecast rain for the next week. :(


I'm thinking about another project, Haven't spent any serious money on my hobby for ages, my wife will be getting worried, she'll think I can do without so I'd better get a move on and spend something ;D The West Wings Hawker Hunter looks good :af

keep trying  ;)
John

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Re: Leccy Lanc XI
« Reply #113 on: March 08, 2006, 17:42:50 PM »



I'm thinking about another project, Haven't spent any serious money on my hobby for ages, my wife will be getting worried, she'll think I can do without


John, I was getting seriously worried today, when my wife said she was going on line to check our bank account. I was going to blame it on fraudsters, but decided to come clean in the end :D ;D ;D

Hummm...... A Hunter, sounds exciting

Walts
p.s. all experiments on hold at the moment until the necessary hard ware turns up :D

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Re: Leccy Lanc XI
« Reply #114 on: March 09, 2006, 01:01:54 AM »
HI Walts

i sent you a PM with a couple of pics on it didnt you get them?

Cheers

Craig

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Re: Leccy Lanc XI
« Reply #115 on: March 09, 2006, 16:12:56 PM »
Hi Craig
        My apologies, i don't check my e-mails often enough ::)

Yep got the pic's, it certainly looks stunning, just added it to my long list of models to make. trouble is the list adds up to around 2 years of building as it is :o

Cheers Walts

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Re: Leccy Lanc XI
« Reply #116 on: March 09, 2006, 17:09:06 PM »
Hi Walts,
any news on the eyebrows ?

BD

PS got a Flair Hunter in the garage hanger which goes really well as a PSS model - needs a good F6 to really get it going though  :ev

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Re: Leccy Lanc XI
« Reply #117 on: March 09, 2006, 23:14:09 PM »
Hi BD
They're still firmly attached to my face at the moment  :D
Can't do no more till my new charger and power supply turn up to charge and cycle my new 'hugh' battery. Going to be a bit more gentle with this one, and try and get it 'used' to the abuse of 40 amp discharges. Been reading up on it, and apparently you can put new cells into reversal if you hammer them before cyclling them???? Could be why my 8s' are not proforming well under load now.

Walts

Here's a couple of e-bay items that might interest Gordon and Lavers

Gordon,   http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=6040980594&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&rd=1

Lavers    http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=6040844330&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&rd=1

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Re: Leccy Lanc XI
« Reply #118 on: March 10, 2006, 09:02:06 AM »
Don't know about the Hunter plan Walts, I'm not fond of buying free plans that come with magazines, rather buy the Mag myself and get a read as well, if you know what I mean. Besides, you can get the West Wings Hunter for 69 with all moulded parts included.

Now the halibag, that's a different matter :af I would'nt mind having a go at that myself.

BD, what's the equivelent electric for a .15 and a .25?
Getting all excited now.

John

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Re: Leccy Lanc XI
« Reply #119 on: March 10, 2006, 09:29:51 AM »
Hi John,
        Before you do commit to the west wings Hunter at 69, check out Inwoods web site. There back on line and offering the West wings Hunter at 49! I've used them a couple of times with no problems at all, despite the scathing attack they suffered on a certain thread, and there still the most competitive shop around i find, just my opinion :af

Walts

      www.inwoodmodels.co.uk
« Last Edit: March 10, 2006, 09:35:51 AM by Walts »


 

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