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Author Topic: Under 50's need not apply... reviving 1960s radio control !  (Read 211518 times)

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Offline Phil_G

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Under 50's need not apply... reviving 1960s radio control !
« on: April 12, 2010, 00:20:38 AM »
Me and my clubmate 2.4g-Shaun are on a mission.
We are going to start a Single Channel revival!

Shaun has come over all Galloping Ghost, and has a Macgregor and a Fleet G/G set, both fully working. He's built a G/G actuator and mended an old commercial Rand.
I'm set on Elmic escapements, because thats what I had in the superregen days, and later a Climax unimite compound 'motorized actuator' (they didn't call it a servo back then). Both worked in much the same way, one press for right, two for left. Sequential escapements simply gave left and right alternately and you had to remember which way you turned last.

In the day, I never had a kick-up elevator, but that was one innovation introduced by the Elmic Compact, along with quick-blip throttle.
A typical single-channel transmitter had just two features, and one of those was the on/off switch. The other, the one and only control, was a push-button. Single-channel models were more often than not rudder-only but a fully equipped single channel model would have rudder, one way elevator (usually up but down was often used in gliders) and a 2-position throttle. All these controls were 'bang-bang' all or nothing, there was no proportional movement, no stick to follow. Control surface movements were cleverly done by rubber bands and  mechanical means, no electronics were used other than in the radio itself.

By now anyone under 50 will have clicked 'back' and will be browsing other, far more interesting posts. But for those who remember, or the sadly inquisitive, heres my new 2.4g setup:

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZGDoFZCjznI" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZGDoFZCjznI</a>

Who will join our crusade :D ?        Ni !!
« Last Edit: April 12, 2010, 00:28:10 AM by Phil_G »


Offline BrianB

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Re: Under 50's need not apply... reviving 1960s radio control !
« Reply #1 on: April 12, 2010, 19:18:18 PM »
Well, I'm not under 50 unfortunately, and I've also used an RCS system in anger! I'll be watching carefully.  :af
Westmorland Model Flyers (Scratch built models preferred, but artf's if you really must)
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Offline enginetorque

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Re: Under 50's need not apply... reviving 1960s radio control !
« Reply #2 on: April 12, 2010, 19:55:02 PM »
Yer all 'mental' (at best)

Had it - used it - chased models to the scene of the crashes with it - chased slope gliders halfway across Gloucestershire when the range on my 'Wee MacGregor's in control' (my a45e he was......) decided a couple of hundred feet was a bit challenging for the technology of the day :banghead:

Elmic escapements - ah yes - happy days - wind the rubber - hit the button - rudder does 47 left-right-lefts in quick succession then the motor is depleted - great  :banghead: :banghead:

Happy days............. :ev


Offline 2.4G Shaun

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Re: Under 50's need not apply... reviving 1960s radio control !
« Reply #3 on: April 18, 2010, 02:29:23 AM »
Quote
Yer all 'mental' (at best)

Wait until you see the 2.4g reed set   :af

Then ( assuming I can convince Phil to write the code).. I have in mind a 2.4g Galloping Ghost set.... Oh Phil..I forgot to mention this to you last time...... :'' :''

Eventually we should arrive at 2.4g proportional  ;D ;D

I aquired a few more sets today..

Futaba M   3 and 4 channel Tx's, a Sanwa  early module Tx , an  as new, boxed Futaba  FP  6 channel Module set, a  boxed Futaba 2 channel and a boxed  Acoms 35mHz AM  Tx from an auction.  I also won a load of Beige Futaba  1.3ms servos and  Futaba M Rx's...trouble is somebody paid for them, who hadn't won them and went before I got to them them so they are trying to track them down for me . This ticked me off because I'm certain, he'll chop off all the M series plugs and then find out that the servo horns won't center on the square output arms  as the servos are set to 1.3m/s  pulse and chuck them away after ruining them... !'m not happy bunny  >:( >:(

Shaun

Offline Brian Cooper

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Re: Under 50's need not apply... reviving 1960s radio control !
« Reply #4 on: April 20, 2010, 09:25:29 AM »
My introduction to R/C flying began in the 1960s in my innocent days of childhood, and single channel was all I could afford at the time.  :)
Nostalgia for those long-gone days is strong, but I think the happy memories are best left in the past rather than trying to relive them.
All things considered, I prefer the reliability and the superb control which is now available with modern radios.  :co
But I shall be watching with interest and affection to see how the single channel revival goes…  :)

Good luck, and have fun,  :af

B.C.


Offline 2.4G Shaun

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Re: Under 50's need not apply... reviving 1960s radio control !
« Reply #5 on: April 20, 2010, 10:36:52 AM »

All things considered, I prefer the reliability and the superb control which is now available with modern radios.  :co



Hi Brian,

I agree single channel ( indeed all radio systems) of old weren't that reliable ... Not anymore.. servos replace  sticking escapements,  a 2.4g radio link replaces the interference prone 27mHz.

Reliability of the system is  the same as anything you  can buy today. I think you may have misunderstood what comprises the component parts of the new single channel.

 The other massive advantage over old single channel is you can now trim and fly the model initially on your standard propo tx to sort it out.... How many single channel models would have been saved from an early demise if we had had that facility.

Considering that a number of modellers I've seen fly  who don't seem to appreciate they have a poroportional stick to move surfaces with  , they are already emulating the old Bang Bang Single Channel system of control  ;D

 The whole idea about it is it presents  new challanges and a large helping of fun and an excuse to build another Weekender , Swanee or X-Craft again :af

Shaun
« Last Edit: April 20, 2010, 13:10:25 PM by 2.4G Shaun »

Offline Phil_G

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Re: Under 50's need not apply... reviving 1960s radio control !
« Reply #6 on: April 20, 2010, 11:44:02 AM »
Some Free-Flight enthusiasts are turning to 'radio assist' whereby the flight path is only changed if theres a safety problem or chance of a lost model - usually with just a rudder servo.
Whilst Single-Channel is ideal for 'radio assisted free-flight' I'd agree theres no real advantage over a single servo propo set, but surely some would enjoy the added element of nostalgia?  This hobby is for enjoyment, right?  :D
Cheers
Phil


Offline 2.4G Shaun

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Re: Under 50's need not apply... reviving 1960s radio control !
« Reply #7 on: April 20, 2010, 13:04:29 PM »

Whilst Single-Channel is ideal for 'radio assisted free-flight' I'd agree theres no real advantage over a single servo propo set, but surely some would enjoy the added element of nostalgia?  This hobby is for enjoyment, right?  :D
Cheers
Phil



 And I guarantee when you do your first loop or roll just using the rudder..the smile factor is off the scale...

Why would we want to do it you may ask... because  we can  :D

Shaun

PS  Phil......I've just got the first of the EK- Logitrol sets working...  ( the basic 4 channel one).
The servos are surprisingly fast and the centering is great.. Not bad for a Radio sold in 1974 ish..

I'll set about the  Super Pro 7 channel one next..

If Acoms sets had been this good they would have been 200% better than they were :nananana:

Offline Phil_G

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Re: Under 50's need not apply... reviving 1960s radio control !
« Reply #8 on: May 18, 2010, 14:45:52 PM »
Here's the latest victim volunteer for 2.4g conversion:
Phil

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YuKqbTYqxg4" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YuKqbTYqxg4</a>



Offline enginetorque

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Re: Under 50's need not apply... reviving 1960s radio control !
« Reply #9 on: May 18, 2010, 17:33:55 PM »
Well I'm just fresh home from a weekend at Macrihanish fun fly meet - the best fun of the weekend was the DB novice sessions - everyone and his dog up and flying with rudder elevator Diesel powered (MUST be Diesels - no glows  - no electricky allowed) stuff!

Flying formation aeros without throttle control or ailerons and not knowing how long before your motor cuts hugely ups the fun factor - no good planning a landing as one found out when his motor run went on for a good 20 minutes compared with everyone elses 5 or 10

what a hoot  :ev

Offline 2.4G Shaun

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Re: Under 50's need not apply... reviving 1960s radio control !
« Reply #10 on: May 18, 2010, 17:58:13 PM »
Well I'm just fresh home from a weekend at Macrihanish fun fly meet - the best fun of the weekend was the DB novice sessions - everyone and his dog up and flying with rudder elevator Diesel powered (MUST be Diesels - no glows  - no electricky allowed) stuff!

Flying formation aeros without throttle control or ailerons and not knowing how long before your motor cuts hugely ups the fun factor - no good planning a landing as one found out when his motor run went on for a good 20 minutes compared with everyone elses 5 or 10

what a hoot  :ev

 They just need to do it with the 2.4g single channel set and the  Phil & Shaun de-evolution process is complete  ;D ;D

Offline Phil_G

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Re: Under 50's need not apply... reviving 1960s radio control !
« Reply #11 on: May 18, 2010, 18:52:34 PM »
I've found a reputable site which calculates the relative worth of items bought many years ago.
The Gem in the above post was a typical single channel transmitter/receiver combo, & cost £13.14s.0d with the relayless rx, or £14.16s.0d with the relay rx.

Apparently data is only available up to 2008, so bear in mind we're 2 years on from there.
Now before scrolling down, take a guess.   Its 1967 and you've just bought a new radio set for £14.
How much, relatively, would that cost you today?






























Well, in 2008, £14 0s 0d from 1967 is worth:

£190.00 using the retail price index.
£382.00 using average earnings.


Just for interest I priced up how much the modern equivalents have cost us to assemble:
Bear in mind the original would be pretty unreliable, was prone to interference, they were super-regen so you could only fly one-at-a-time, no escapement or actuator was included, range wasnt fantastic and the airborne pack (rx/esc/batteries) weighed anything up to 6 ounces.
Ours are ultra-reliable using commercial 2.4g modules, are relatively interference-free, fly as many as you like simultaneously without frequency control, have a claimed range of 1.5km, and including a servo or two weigh in the tens of grams:

Here are the approximate figures, just for comparison:
£5     Donor Single Channel set from ebay/bootsale(for case, switch & pushbutton),  or maplin box & bits
£5     Encoder board (vero, pic, couple of caps)
£25   Corona DIY hack module & receiver
£3     5gm rudder servo
------
£38
------

Now, working £38 through the "worth" calculation backwards, had this kit been available in 1967 this would have cost £2.15s.00d   or £2.75 decimal!

What an expensive hobby this was back then!
Phil

« Last Edit: May 18, 2010, 18:59:34 PM by Phil_G »

Offline enginetorque

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Re: Under 50's need not apply... reviving 1960s radio control !
« Reply #12 on: May 18, 2010, 22:36:47 PM »
Yup - my first single channel set was a Macgregor bang bang - paid a tenner for it second hand - paid over 4 quid for a new Elimic escapement to go with it - I had two paper rounds - a morning and an evening one - ten bob each, so I was earning the princely sum of a quid a week!

My first proportional set was a second hand dry battery Futaba M (still have it) which cost me 85 quid second hand from The Modellers Den in Cheltenham - dry battery and one left sense and one right sense servo - earnings at the time were well under £20 quid a week ( I well remember the magic grand a year being broached with a job change later)!

Cheap as chips today :co

Offline compact

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Re: Under 50's need not apply... reviving 1960s radio control !
« Reply #13 on: May 19, 2010, 16:39:13 PM »
WOW Mr Dorling, how old is you :o

cool single channel stuff,I tried it once, and only once. it was funny though watchin webby chase after it.we will be in touch with you soon mate as we are trying to arrange a visit to your slopes.

Scott Ravenscroft

Offline enginetorque

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Re: Under 50's need not apply... reviving 1960s radio control !
« Reply #14 on: May 20, 2010, 10:35:53 AM »
I'm VERY old................................... :embarassed:

Offline Beezer

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Re: Under 50's need not apply... reviving 1960s radio control !
« Reply #15 on: May 27, 2010, 13:11:54 PM »
Bear in mind the original would be pretty unreliable, was prone to interference, they were super-regen so you could only fly one-at-a-time, no escapement or actuator was included, range wasnt fantastic and the airborne pack (rx/esc/batteries) weighed anything up to 6 ounces.

The upside of course was that you never had any mid-airs  :)

Beezer

Offline enginetorque

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Re: Under 50's need not apply... reviving 1960s radio control !
« Reply #16 on: May 27, 2010, 15:11:59 PM »
The downside was that it was only 'radio influenced' rather than 'controlled' and of course - unlike a FF model that only had a short engine run - when your 'radio influenced' tool went awol it flew a loooooooooooooooong way away  :banghead:


Offline Skyleader

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Re: Under 50's need not apply... reviving 1960s radio control !
« Reply #17 on: May 27, 2010, 15:29:12 PM »
Some Free-Flight enthusiasts are turning to 'radio assist' whereby the flight path is only changed if theres a safety problem or chance of a lost model - usually with just a rudder servo.


Now that sounds like a cracking idea; first love, free flight......... :-*
'Dont just stand there; get one up!!'

Offline enginetorque

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Re: Under 50's need not apply... reviving 1960s radio control !
« Reply #18 on: May 27, 2010, 22:45:53 PM »
Ha - this is a great bone of contention - Free Flight is just that to many - as soon as you start 'edging it back to the field' - however you cut and paste the argument - it's now an RC model :co

Offline CEEJAY

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Re: Under 50's need not apply... reviving 1960s radio control !
« Reply #19 on: May 28, 2010, 09:30:50 AM »
hey shaun

  i,m sure i have some (4) biege servo,s with square drive output and an rx to match somewhere in the bowls of the workshop, i,ll have a shufftie when i get back off me hols,

  chris
I know THE answer!!......................42

Offline 2.4G Shaun

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Re: Under 50's need not apply... reviving 1960s radio control !
« Reply #20 on: May 28, 2010, 10:01:15 AM »
Thanks for that Chris,
we need everything we can find in order to keep our demo sets working.

Regards,

Shaun

Offline 2.4G Shaun

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Re: Under 50's need not apply... reviving 1960s radio control !
« Reply #21 on: August 17, 2010, 20:46:18 PM »
Hi, here is an update on the project.

My mate Phil G , the Pic wizard has been at the code again and the set has been developed further.

Features now include, end point adjustment, servo reversing, variable motor on timers in sequential mode, range test mode, status LEDS and motor startup warning buzzer.

Anybody fancying experimenting, PM Phil for the Pic and circuit diags. He sells them for a nominal fee to cover  costs .

In rememberance of my old pal Phil Smith, I have installed the 2.4g Single Channel gear in a collaberative project of the Mini Concord, Phil and I did in 1993. The model was featured in RCM&E Nov 93.

If anybody is interested, wants further info or just a look see, I will be taking it all to the Nats..I'm marshalling at the evenings indoor flying in the Hanger.

 You may notice my new form of motive power..The Balsa Diesel  ;D ;D ;D

 In one of the Pics, you'll see the Buddy Box for my Futaba set.. This was developed for people, not wanting to go the whole hog and build a dedicated set. One other advantage is you can have full propo control again on releasing the trainer switch if it gets hectic or you bottle it. ;D ;D

Cheers,  

Shaun
« Last Edit: August 17, 2010, 22:33:38 PM by 2.4G Shaun »

alan c

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Re: Under 50's need not apply... reviving 1960s radio control !
« Reply #22 on: August 17, 2010, 21:28:11 PM »
Hope you get the gem working for twice as long as mine at least,  that will be 10 minutes then,  :banghead:

        Bought my M series Futaba when Jim Davis was doing his 12 month interest free credit,    waaaaaay back, cost of this not even one bell or one whistle set then was a mind boggling £275 :o :o :o

   in younger days, played around with ABC electronics gear---remember that?    in fact,  the gaffer of the shop, Alan Nicholls,  took 2/6pence of me for many weeks, for a set, and a graupner dandy kit,      that was my first real set up--and it worked fine,     when i bought the 4 channel gem,    all went tits up,  it was ORRID,    found girls, lost interest,  years later,  i delt 2nd hand for a while,   and sold Alan Nichols his very very first trainer set up!!  he had abandoned selling models years ago,  keeping with fixing electronics, and running his shop,   i am still in contact with him, and he is as keen as ever,     wonder if he has a set knocking around?   his gear was sold by Kiel Kraft, and was featured in the KK handbook

Offline FlyinBrian

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Re: Under 50's need not apply... reviving 1960s radio control !
« Reply #23 on: August 17, 2010, 22:32:03 PM »


 You may notice my new form of motive power..The Balsa Diesel

 In one of the Pics, you'll see the Buddy Box for my Futaba set.. This was developed for people, not wanting to go the whole hog and build a dedicated set. One other advantage is you can have full propo control again on releasing the trainer switch if it gets hectic or you bottle it.
Cheers,  

Shaun

Shaun - cant you rig up a bit of card that protrudes into the prop to make an engine sound or will you just go Brrrrp Brrrrrrp Brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.  :D
Basic Research is what I do - when I don't know what I'm doing!.

Offline 2.4G Shaun

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Re: Under 50's need not apply... reviving 1960s radio control !
« Reply #24 on: August 18, 2010, 10:06:51 AM »
Shaun - cant you rig up a bit of card that protrudes into the prop to make an engine sound or will you just go Brrrrp Brrrrrrp Brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.  :D

 I would imagine it would  more likely work as an on board confetti maker  ;D ;D

 I'm just debating  what to run the Balsa Diesel on... Cyno, PVA  or Aliphatic  :D

 I've also noticed a minor problem.. I forgot to machine some exhaust ports  :D

Shaun
« Last Edit: August 18, 2010, 11:36:09 AM by 2.4G Shaun »

Offline pchristy

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Re: Under 50's need not apply... reviving 1960s radio control !
« Reply #25 on: September 01, 2010, 15:59:01 PM »
About ten or 15 years ago I made a 35 MHz FM single channel system. I flew it in both a "Sharkface" and a "Sub-Mini" (half-size Super 60), both powered by Cox .049s and fitted with Elmic Compact escapements!

In fact I've still got both models, but they would need some renovation work, as would the radio! Probably succumbed to the dreaded black-wire corrosion by now!

I actually won a trophy with the "Sub-Mini". It was a free-plan drawn up by the late, great Boddo in the January '65 RCM&E IIRC. I took it to the DB fly-in at Old Warden, and was presented with a Trophy by the great man himself for being the only person dumb enough to be still flying with an escapement!!

I've also got tucked away a Graupner/Grundig "reed" outfit (actually electronic tuned filters) and an early Bonner Digimite-8 awaiting renovation in the not too distant future......!

All I need to do is build some period models in which to fly them!
--
Pete
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Offline 2.4G Shaun

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Re: Under 50's need not apply... reviving 1960s radio control !
« Reply #26 on: September 01, 2010, 16:31:46 PM »
Just got back from the flying field....  I was back again in the late 60's...

Single Channel 2.4g... Backwards is the new forwards....

It wasn't as easy as I thought I remembered.  Got the blipping sorted fairly quickly,  a couple of spiral dives and my first s/c loop in  40 years.  We've gone soft with propo.. good job the mini concord was well trimmed. Only minor problem was on landing I missed pulsed the kick up ele to flare it and the 35 year old thread and epoxy holding the nose wheel to the bulkhead decided to let go when it landed on it....

Brill fun.  Next time I will be flying it in sequential mode with a timed motor run. I never had a sequential escapement first time around, but it would certainly be better on a faster model like the Mini Concord.

I'll take some movies next time.


Shaun

Offline pchristy

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Re: Under 50's need not apply... reviving 1960s radio control !
« Reply #27 on: September 01, 2010, 17:22:48 PM »
I only ever had one successful flight with a sequential escapement. The following flight, it skipped, and the model entered a spiral. Lacking experience, I held the button down convinced I was giving the "opposite". After 2 turns, it dawned on me what had happened, and I let go the button just as the wings folded! That was the end of my Mini-Robot!

After that I got a Compact, which was a cracking little escapement. It came with two "rattlers", fast and slow. I fitted the fast one, and it worked great - even in the Sharkface! In fact, on a calm day, when the Sharkface would struggle to get away, a quick blip would wiggle the tail and put the nose up just as effectively as an elevator would have!

Happy days!
--
Pete
 "No matter how much you push the envelope, it'll still be stationery."

Offline Phil_G

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Re: Under 50's need not apply... reviving 1960s radio control !
« Reply #28 on: September 01, 2010, 23:52:14 PM »
Hi again Peter
Small | Large
This is an early version, its moved on a lot since then.
The basic premise is exact emulation of Elmic esapements through a software model of the rotor and detents... but I've added a few 'convenience' features too. Its all written in assembler and runs in an 8-pin PIC.  We use Corona or Frsky modules and the 'build' is really simple. If theres enough interest I'll get some PCBs done, to date they've all been made manually with blue transfer, which just takes too long.

I'm about to publish the update, with a new video demo etc.
I'll update the nostalgia threads then.

The encoder creates four channels of positive going PPM with a 20ms frametime, with channels assigned as follows:
Ch1=rudder, sequential or compound  (Elmic Conquest or Commander/Compact)
Ch2=optional kick-up elevator (Elmic Compact)
Ch3=optional quick-blip two-position throttle (Elmic Corporal)
Ch4=follows the button press for real escapement drive via a plug-in channel switch on the rx - 1ms=off, 2ms=on

The only control is a button, just like in the old S/C days. Oh, and an 'on/off' switch   :D

A few of us are using this encoder now and its working well. It includes sequential or compound escapement emulation, using a state-machine software model of the Elmic Compact taken from timings in a 1965 magazine, it optionally drives an ESC and has motor delay and slow-start for sequential rudder-only models, audio and visual warning of motor start, three motor run timers... silent mode (for gliders), the compound mode includes kick-up elevator, & quick-blip throttle... it has individual servo reversing, throw adjust, a range-test mode, save config to flash, audio confirmation, 'next turn direction' cheat LEDs for sequential, - etc etc etc... and it also will drive a 'real' rubber escapement connected to the receiver via a channel switch in receiver channel 4.

Its been a fun project, I've really enjoyed doing this one.

Next project is converting an old Orbit 10-channel reed set, and my pal Shaun has to choose which to convert between his RCS Comp 10 reed set and a Remcon 12 (very old kit-built reed outfit).
 
Would you like to join us?  lots of fun guaranteed!

Cheers & thanks for the interest :D
Phil
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No, I haven't seen the PIC based encoder - and I'm interested!

Where's the link?
« Last Edit: September 02, 2010, 00:13:41 AM by Phil_G »

Offline Phil_G

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Re: Under 50's need not apply... reviving 1960s radio control !
« Reply #29 on: September 04, 2010, 20:47:07 PM »
Here we go, just for fun... and I only crashed the once! (No repairs necessary...)

Phil

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H3rZJIbV2VU" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H3rZJIbV2VU</a>

Offline Phil_G

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Re: Under 50's need not apply... reviving 1960s radio control !
« Reply #30 on: October 03, 2010, 01:34:57 AM »
Found a more suitable S/C model for FMS - this is more like I remember!

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BHxLsKQcNOQ" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BHxLsKQcNOQ</a>


Offline 2.4G Shaun

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Re: Under 50's need not apply... reviving 1960s radio control !
« Reply #31 on: October 03, 2010, 10:00:38 AM »
Thats how the Bazz Bomb used to go..until the escapement rubber  ran down.  ;D ;D

Offline pchristy

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Re: Under 50's need not apply... reviving 1960s radio control !
« Reply #32 on: October 05, 2010, 19:42:34 PM »
Never had a Bazz Bomb, but I had many happy hours flying Sharkfaces!

 :)
--
Pete
 "No matter how much you push the envelope, it'll still be stationery."

Offline Phil_G

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Re: Under 50's need not apply... reviving 1960s radio control !
« Reply #33 on: October 13, 2010, 00:46:35 AM »
This is the final version of the software as I'm declaring the project 'completed' !  (new features in bold)
Spec:
Sequential or Compound escapement emulation, using a state-machine software model, it optionally drives an ESC via the throttle channel and has motor delay and slow-start for sequential rudder-only models, audio and visual warning of motor start, three motor run timers... silent mode (for gliders), the compound mode includes kick-up elevator, & quick-blip throttle, with a choice of Corporal-syle 'on-off' sequence or Fred Rising style 'half-full-half-off' sequence.
It has individual servo reversing, throw adjust, two range-test modes, save config to flash, audio confirmation, 'next turn direction' cheat LEDs for sequential, - etc etc etc... and it also will drive a 'real' rubber escapement connected to the receiver via a channel switch in receiver channel 4.

The video also shows an alternate PCB style which clips to any Futaba style module, in this case a Spektrum DSM2 with an AR6100e receiver.

Cheers
Phil

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XM3SQ1briWY" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XM3SQ1briWY</a>
« Last Edit: October 13, 2010, 00:56:32 AM by Phil_G »

Offline pchristy

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Re: Under 50's need not apply... reviving 1960s radio control !
« Reply #34 on: October 13, 2010, 08:37:31 AM »
Excellent! I love it!  :D

Are you moving on to the "reed" set now? If so, one thought occurs to me: back then, servos were MUCH slower than nowadays, and it was that slowness that enabled us to "blip" them for partial movement.

I think if you tried to use modern servos without any slowing of the servo, it would probably be unflyable!

Looking at your s/c video, it looks like you've slowed these servos down. Is that correct?

--
Pete
 "No matter how much you push the envelope, it'll still be stationery."

Offline Phil_G

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Re: Under 50's need not apply... reviving 1960s radio control !
« Reply #35 on: October 13, 2010, 10:09:43 AM »
Hi Pete, thats right, in Compound mode rudder is slowed down, the timing is taken from a technical review in a 1965 Aeromodeller magazine. It models the escapement rattler mechanism.
Ironically it needs a fast servo to keep up with the model of the 360 degree rotation of the pawl & its detents.  The elevator and throttle servos move at full speed as did the equivalent escapements.

Sequential escapements had no rattler so the servo moves at full speed in sequential mode.

The reed encoder has a variable transit speed from v slow to full servo speed for all channels, and extra slow on trim. One slight variation from a true emulation is trim on all channels - by simultaneously holding 'up-trim' and the other channel. Say you want some right aileron trim - just hold up-trim & right simultaneously and the aileron trim will creep until you let go. Thats then held in flash for next time.

Still a lot to do on the reed encoder though, but bear with me...

Cheers
Phil

« Last Edit: October 13, 2010, 11:08:03 AM by Phil_G »

Offline Phil_G

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Re: Under 50's need not apply... reviving 1960s radio control !
« Reply #36 on: November 11, 2010, 02:42:27 AM »
Finally got around to converting the GEM I bought off ebay earlier this year...
This set is probably going in the Junior 60 (el*ctric):

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oYXPy8hBjBg" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oYXPy8hBjBg</a>

Phil



Offline steamysheep

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Re: Under 50's need not apply... reviving 1960s radio control !
« Reply #37 on: November 11, 2010, 06:50:20 AM »
Fantastic Phil.

What I would really like to see is a video of your transmitter whilst you are doing a full (but short) flight. Interested in the workload of your thumb...  ;D
Keeping my chin up!

Offline BrianB

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Re: Under 50's need not apply... reviving 1960s radio control !
« Reply #38 on: November 11, 2010, 21:41:30 PM »
Jeez, Gem radio.  :o

I had a few hairy moments with mine, way back when......

Most of my single channel gear was MacGregor though. Fitted mine into an Edmonds "Chaser". ABS fuselage and bare (no veneer) foam wings. Anyone remember those?  :)
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Offline 2.4G Shaun

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Re: Under 50's need not apply... reviving 1960s radio control !
« Reply #39 on: November 16, 2010, 13:38:46 PM »
Hi Brian..

Quote
Fitted mine into an Edmonds "Chaser". ABS fuselage and bare (no veneer) foam wings. Anyone remember those?

I certainly do.. I believe Boddo reviewed it in RCM&E.

I learnt a great lesson with ABS Fus planes, I had the Dolphin ABS fus, foam wing trainer that Solarfilm used to sell.... Not a good idea to fly them when the temp is sub zero... They shatter like glass on even the most gentle of landings.

Always wanted a Chaser though.. Looked as though it would be quite aerobatic..

Shaun


 

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