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September 24, 2018, 07:27:56 AM

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Author Topic: RCGF - delivered broken  (Read 1564 times)

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Offline Bad Raven

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RCGF - delivered broken
« on: August 17, 2018, 19:24:47 PM »
Just had a RCGF 20cc petrol engine delivered from HK UK.

Good undamaged external packing, plenty of cushioning between it and inner box.

Good sturdy undamaged inner box, with plenty of fitted shock absorbing foam inside.

and...................  one head fin missing completely, broken off part not in bag with engine or in box, also another major head fin bent and part fractured.

Therefore :- they packed it like that at the factory and sent it out.

Also, the rear mounted carb had a super strong return throttle spring, arm set and locked so the throttle up action would have been a push against the strong return spring towards the crankcase!

 :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:



« Last Edit: September 09, 2018, 07:44:58 AM by Bad Raven »
The user formerly know as Bravedan........... Well if Prince can do it....................


Offline itsme

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Re: RCGF - Be Warned!
« Reply #1 on: August 17, 2018, 19:28:23 PM »
Just had a RCGF 20cc petrol engine delivered from HK UK.

Good undamaged external packing, plenty of cushioning between it and inner box.

Good sturdy undamaged inner box, with plenty of fitted shock absorbing foam inside.

and...................  one head fin missing completely, broken off part not in bag with engine or in box, also another major head fin bent and part fractured.

Therefore :- they packed it like that at the factory and sent it out.

Also, the rear mounted carb had a super strong return throttle spring, arm set and locked so the throttle up action would have been a push against the strong return spring towards the crankcase!

 :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
I think HKs motto is 'let the buyer beware....'

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Offline Bad Raven

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Re: RCGF - Be Warned!
« Reply #2 on: August 18, 2018, 09:06:38 AM »
I think HKs motto is 'let the buyer beware....'

They are sealed boxes from factory, and no seller is routinely going to open packaging to inspect, are they.

Reviews on HK and elsewhere for the engine are favourable.

Seems clearly a chinese factory person decided one Friday night that the engine they'd just dropped was going out the door before the boss saw and sent  them.

This plane (Seagull Zlin 50L) is fated, as when bought secondhand NIB for a good price several years back, I ordered a 20cc.  The supplier (NOT HK) sent a 30cc, too much for the plane, then went into "we don't understand" mode, so I eventually gave up and kept it (still on shelf!).

Now on a second attempt at getting a 20cc this.

I'd really now with the changing landscape like to make it electric but there's no hatch or other access despite having a factory "EP conversion kit" included with it, and its printed film covering is not really practical to make one, so it means taking the wing off every flight.

I don't think so!

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Offline British Victory

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Re: RCGF - Be Warned!
« Reply #3 on: August 18, 2018, 09:26:06 AM »
Have you advised HK and asked for either a replacement or a refund?
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Offline paulinfrance

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Re: RCGF - Be Warned!
« Reply #4 on: August 18, 2018, 11:19:13 AM »
I bought 2 one for a friend the other for myself, and a few bearing / crankshaft problems, now running perfectly in my ME 109,,,
https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?2998360-RCGF-compared-to-DLE-or-Evolution



If you read ( and understand ) French,,

https://www.modelisme.com/forum/aero-thermique/206975-rcgf-rcgb-20cc.html
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Offline itsme

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Re: RCGF - Be Warned!
« Reply #5 on: August 18, 2018, 14:01:58 PM »
Sorry Paul but for 20cc you should go DLE or Zenoah. Only engines I have not heard bad reports about.

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Offline paulinfrance

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Re: RCGF - Be Warned!
« Reply #6 on: August 18, 2018, 16:52:59 PM »
I bought my first Rcgf 15cc petrol engine  NIB for 80 over 2 years ago and it has used around 60 litres of petrol, and it still runs well, :af I bought a Rcgf 20cc for a friend over a year ago and that also runs well, :af between times I got myself a Dle 20cc and had a look inside, it's no better except it has a Walbro carburettor, :'' then at HK I got a mail with an offer of 109 for the rcgf, and that was it 'buy now'  :'' got me,,,  $%&
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Offline Bad Raven

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Re: RCGF - Be Warned!
« Reply #7 on: August 19, 2018, 12:02:42 PM »
Have you advised HK and asked for either a replacement or a refund?

Of course, but they want to see the old first, so it'll be a while before I see the replacement even from the UK warehouse and the last time they replaced a plane originally supplied from the UK warehouse they sent from Global and I risked import charges and waited ages.
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Offline Bad Raven

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Re: RCGF - Be Warned!
« Reply #8 on: September 09, 2018, 07:43:29 AM »
OK, Bottom Line, now have been sent a replacement unit. 

Remember, the only reason I returned it was because it arrived clearly having been dropped and broken BEFORE it was packed, presume to try to avoid boss noticing/knowing and said Chinese packer losing job!   Hopefully a one off!!

Looks and feels well made, and that is comparing to a new unused in box 30cc DLE.

Anyway, it's what I have and its what I will use.

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Offline paulinfrance

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Re: RCGF - delivered broken
« Reply #9 on: September 09, 2018, 10:42:38 AM »
Good news then, maybe I will get one and a Spitfire this winter, I will be ordering the 26cc one for a friend next month, so if anyone has any information on both of there engines, I would be pleased to know,
 thanks Paul.

 For anyone interested in the RCGF 20cc engine it "VIBRATES" like hell,,,  :embarassed:
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Offline paulinfrance

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Re: RCGF - delivered broken
« Reply #10 on: September 12, 2018, 08:11:08 AM »
Has anyone out their balanced a crankshaft on one of these engines, or any small 2 stroke engine ?. :co
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Offline paulinfrance

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Re: RCGF - delivered broken
« Reply #11 on: September 12, 2018, 13:33:05 PM »
Well I have studied the videos and taken the engine apart, 'but' I start with a conrod that is too heavy, so rather than put weight on it I would rather shave some weight from the pistol. anyone out their that can do the maths for me ?,,,
Conrod weight 7 grams
 piston complete weight 35 grams
 total moving weight 42 grams,
so anyone out their that can do the maths to tell me how much needs taking off of the piston,
So anyone out their that can do the maths for me?.
 thanks Paul
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Offline PDR

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Re: RCGF - delivered broken
« Reply #12 on: September 12, 2018, 14:52:47 PM »
You're unlikely to be able to shave anywhere near enough off. I would look at increasing the counterweight. Either rebate the existing counterweight and add a steel doubler (that needs a milling machine) or bore holes in that counterweight and press in  tungsten or Heavy Metal* slugs to improve the balance.

If you want to see how far out your engine is then the standard 2-stroke balance process as used in the karting and circuit bike world starts with a simple balance factor measurement like this:

ila_rendered

PDR

* "Heavy Metal" is an industry term for tungsten with alloying components to make it more easily machinable (which pure tungsten isn't). Typically 90-95% tingsten with the rest in copper and nickel and maybe a smidge of lead to make it free-cutting.
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Offline paulinfrance

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Re: RCGF - delivered broken
« Reply #13 on: September 12, 2018, 17:36:17 PM »
Thanks PDR, I will 'balance' ^-^ up both ideas,
in fact the counter weight is 1.73 grams lighter than the conrod, so tomorrow with a clear head I shall work the maths out,, 
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Offline paulinfrance

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Re: RCGF - delivered broken
« Reply #14 on: September 12, 2018, 18:34:28 PM »
Thanks PDR in fact I have 87%

B = 33.27
A = 42
 giving me 79%
 so to get to 68% I need to loose 15% of the moving weight, 6.3 grams of piston weight.
Or braze some weight onto the crankshaft, or even both,,
 the piston weights 35 grams and I can take quite a bit of metal off of it,
sorry but too tired to go any further,,


 
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Offline paulinfrance

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Re: RCGF - delivered broken
« Reply #15 on: September 13, 2018, 07:07:13 AM »
After a nights sleep, I need to take 11 grams off of the piston, or run a bead of solder (welding rod ) on the counterweight,,  :study:

 While that seemed a good idea NO WAY !, their isn't any space and as I haven't any 'heavy ' metal, I will just have to skim of the odd gram here and there. :''
« Last Edit: September 13, 2018, 07:30:48 AM by paulinfrance »
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Offline PDR

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Re: RCGF - delivered broken
« Reply #16 on: September 13, 2018, 08:26:40 AM »
If you're tight for space the best compact ballast material is depleted uranium. We used to use it a lot in aircraft for mass-balances and dampers in control systems. It machines nicely and bonds well with a bronze/indium/silver braze. But we had to take it all out and replace it with HM about 15 years ago due to a new "health and safety" rule. Bloody nanny state...

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Offline paulinfrance

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Re: RCGF - delivered broken
« Reply #17 on: September 13, 2018, 11:31:53 AM »
If you're tight for space the best compact ballast material is depleted uranium. We used to use it a lot in aircraft for mass-balances and dampers in control systems. It machines nicely and bonds well with a bronze/indium/silver braze. But we had to take it all out and replace it with HM about 15 years ago due to a new "health and safety" rule. Bloody nanny state...

PDR

 Got any spare ?,,

 There is a Nuclear power station 80 klms from me, maybe it's worth a drone flight to pick some up,,,  :ev
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Offline paulinfrance

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Re: RCGF - delivered broken
« Reply #18 on: September 13, 2018, 14:40:39 PM »
After mucking about, No pictures as it's not for the faint hearted,,
I did get some weight off of a few bits,
2.5 off of the piston, 0.2 gudgeon pin and 1 from the conrod 3.7grams in total as PDR says,
nowhere near enough, 'if' my maths are right I need around 11 grams in total,  there is
 a noticeable drop in it's vibrations, and the engine is happily turning at 8.600 rpm,, :study:
« Last Edit: September 13, 2018, 14:46:23 PM by paulinfrance »
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Offline The Saint. (Owen)

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Re: RCGF - delivered broken
« Reply #19 on: September 13, 2018, 14:49:12 PM »
If you're tight for space the best compact ballast material is depleted uranium.
PDR
Is this stuff even available?  ???
Electrickery is the work of the devil.
Proper aeroplanes are powered by engines.

Offline PDR

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Re: RCGF - delivered broken
« Reply #20 on: September 13, 2018, 15:18:19 PM »
Yes - it's not radio-active (hence "depleted"), but it is rather toxic like several other heavy metals. We had to eliminate it from aircraft because there was a concern about toxic and carcinogenic consequences after a crash.

PDR
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Re: RCGF - delivered broken
« Reply #21 on: September 13, 2018, 15:55:53 PM »
Yes - it's not radio-active (hence "depleted"), but it is rather toxic like several other heavy metals. We had to eliminate it from aircraft because there was a concern about toxic and carcinogenic consequences after a crash.

PDR

 Do you mean that it can even kill a dead pilot after a crash ?. ^-^
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Re: RCGF - delivered broken
« Reply #22 on: September 14, 2018, 17:39:13 PM »
Another flight and the engine doesn't vibrate so much,  "but"  another problem, my new Rexel ignition is making the motor miss when running over idle, a new HK has been fitted so off  to the field tomorrow for another flight,
 I will post the 'Conclusion' of my experience on this engine tomorrow after the flight with the new ignition system. :co
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Offline paulinfrance

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Re: RCGF - delivered broken
« Reply #23 on: September 15, 2018, 19:15:42 PM »
Running well but not for long the exhaust has fallen apart so a 30mm square tube has become the next donor for this engine,,
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Offline paulinfrance

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Re: RCGF - delivered broken
« Reply #24 on: September 16, 2018, 10:52:28 AM »
Been busy, this morning,,,
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Offline paulinfrance

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Re: RCGF - delivered broken
« Reply #25 on: September 16, 2018, 16:12:59 PM »
And it works with NO Leaks,, a miracle,,  ^-^
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Offline THE BLACKBIRD

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Re: RCGF - delivered broken
« Reply #26 on: September 16, 2018, 18:16:00 PM »
You made a splendid job of that your sir
The man that never made a mistake
Never made anything

Offline paulinfrance

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Re: RCGF - delivered broken
« Reply #27 on: September 17, 2018, 07:17:11 AM »
A bit of a fairground ride yesterday, I used a 6 volt 2000 mah pack for both the radio and the ignition,
 a BIG mistake  :banghead: my ignition system started misfiring, and was giving my ailerons and elevator it's own signals  :-\, I checked it on the ground which confirmed it, and 'maybe' another problem with my Onboard Mini tachometer, it cuts the spark completely on the new HK replacement ignition system.
So a 1500man 6 volt battery is reinstalled and the tachometer unplugged, and another flight today,,
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Re: RCGF - delivered broken
« Reply #28 on: September 17, 2018, 08:53:51 AM »
I Spoke too soon, on the ground everything moves, so back to the Rexel, separate battery and no
tachometer,,
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Re: RCGF - delivered broken
« Reply #29 on: September 17, 2018, 11:22:36 AM »
That's the trouble with Lucifer's Locomotors - too much trouble. Fit proper electrics, as His Noodley Appendage intended, and then just switch-on and go...

:ev

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Re: RCGF - delivered broken
« Reply #30 on: September 17, 2018, 13:28:20 PM »
That's the trouble with Lucifer's Locomotors - too much trouble. Fit proper electrics, as His Noodley Appendage intended, and then just switch-on and go...

:ev

PDR
No thanks, it was 31c here on Saturday and a glider flyer lit a BBQ in his 3.50M glider  :nananana:

I just can't wait, :-\ my conclusion on this engine will be my next post, before I order another DLE 20RA,,  :-X
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Re: RCGF - delivered broken
« Reply #31 on: September 17, 2018, 18:39:45 PM »
Conclusion,

  After running this engine for a few months here is my humble opinion on my RCGF 20cc 'Bargain'. :study:
 
If you are an older pilot that is used to loosing pieces like the exhaust in the air, then spending a couple of hours looking for it in the long grass don't worry, with this engine it will fall off in front of you !.

 Would you rather save a 100 quid on your engine and tell everyone what a bargain it was, ::)
 Then again this engine is for you,
If you have a collection of leaky ASP engines :-X,
 Again this engine is for you.
You also have a collection of MDS engines,  :-\
 This engine is for you
When your planes end up crashing when they do eventually get into the air, this engine will see to it that something will fall off due to it vibrating,  :D
This engine is for you.
 It rains 6 months of the year and you have nothing better to do than repair your planes,   
This engine is for you.
You need to test your servos for a Model Magazine, then put them in a plane with this engine and ground run it, if they last for a tank of fuel, then these are the servos for you. :af

Is the wind too strong or not in line with the runway and you are all huddled around your planes frightened to fly, this engine will give you a topic to talk about for hours,
 This engine is for you. ^-^

 So what now, fly it till the next problem appears, (they never stop ) just go out and buy a DLE 20RA to replace it, and DON'T tell anyone in the club, they will be in 'or' over how you manage to turn up to the field, fly for hours with nothing going wrong, however they will ask you advice, now becoming 'an expert' on petrol 2 strokes. :''

 Then my Conclusion is the DLE is the engine for you !.  :nananana:
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Re: RCGF - delivered broken
« Reply #32 on: September 17, 2018, 21:01:49 PM »
Hard to see from the photo - is that a steel rod? if so the vibration could be secondary (due to the side-to-side sway of the rod) rather than primary (due to the imbalance).

PDR
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Re: RCGF - delivered broken
« Reply #33 on: September 18, 2018, 07:24:10 AM »
Yes the conrod is of high tensile steel, but since my balancing most of the vibrations have gone, my problem at the moment is the Ignition systems breaking down and giving me parasites on the radio,,
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Re: RCGF - delivered broken
« Reply #34 on: September 18, 2018, 07:46:40 AM »
Ah. Well that would imply there is an "HT leak" somewhere (ie you are getting spark discharge somewhere other than just the plug electrodes).

I assume you've tried changing the plug? A minute crack in the insulator could cause this. After that I'd try suppressing the plug lead with a 10k resistor and checking for any signs of "tracking" on the plug lead and connection.

PDR
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Offline paulinfrance

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Re: RCGF - delivered broken
« Reply #35 on: September 18, 2018, 18:56:30 PM »
Yes the first thing I changed was the plug, a flight tomorrow with the rexel ignition, separate 6v battery and the rev counter unplugged,,

 Getting nearer to ordering a DLE,,  :-X
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Re: RCGF - delivered broken
« Reply #36 on: September 18, 2018, 19:07:08 PM »
Is the crankcase well grounded?

PDR
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Re: RCGF - delivered broken
« Reply #37 on: September 18, 2018, 19:17:38 PM »
No, I never thought of that as I have two other petrol engines one RCGF the other a DLE and
the ignition systems are all ( three ) wrapped in foam and the engines on plastic mountings,,

 It tomorrows flight goes bad, I will solder an earth lead as you suggest and fix it to the engine.
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Re: RCGF - delivered broken
« Reply #38 on: September 18, 2018, 19:31:53 PM »
interesting what do you ground it to  ::)
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Re: RCGF - delivered broken
« Reply #39 on: September 18, 2018, 19:49:18 PM »
The crankcase should be well-grounded to the )v side of the ignition system to ensure that the spark current has a good, reliable, low-resistance and low-inductance return path. The spark current is small, but it has very rapid rise-time, ans if the ground-return path is poor this sharp current peak produces a voltage spike that's enough to radiate. That's why back in the olden days a loose engine block earth strap wrecked the radio reception.

PDR
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