Topic: IL2 Shturmovik Build

You know what? I really struggle to understand why someone would go to so much effort to design a scale model and draft plans - only to use the wrong shapes 

I recently finished a model myself which was miles off the shape it was meant to be (wing set about 3/4" too high in fuselage and grossly undersized (and hence fictional shaped) tail surfaces. Luckily I noticed this before building.


I don't think I could have made the required changes as neatly as yours afterwards! 

Jamie, some of the problem is the three views people work from, some like Arthur Bentleys are superb but others make you wonder if they actually saw the original aircraft. There is also the issue of mods to the aircraft in service, you need to work from pictures of the subject that you are modelling, then it must be right.

Steve

Cliff.

Don't want to pee on your fire, but I have a feeling that the IL-2 did have varying fin shapes depending on the mark it was...................IIRC the early versions had the 'slanted' rudder TE you have, whereas later marks had the more vertical profile shown on the plan.

Phil

Cliff.

Don't want to pee on your fire, but I have a feeling that the IL-2 did have varying fin shapes depending on the mark it was...................IIRC the early versions had the 'slanted' rudder TE you have, whereas later marks had the more vertical profile shown on the plan.

Phil

Hi Phil,
Funny you should say that cos I was wondering the same thing :ww

But a quick look through "Ilyushin Il-2 & Il-10 Shturmovik" by Y. Gordon & S. Komissarov confirms that Cliffs modification is correct... the concave curve at the end of the upper fus/under the rudder should be a smaller radius and the root-chord of the rudder should be longer than Cliff originally built.



Looking through the book the back-end of the plane didn't appear to change from the prototype 2-seater version through  to the Il-10.

But I could be wrong :ww

Steve

P.S. Great build Cliff!
P.P.S. Did you ever get that sample of Polyspan I posted?

Rcfanuk and I, did the same thing this morning and we came to the same conclusion.......    

Good decision Cliff...........      

Andy

These 2 show a marked difference.................standard IL-2 on top, late war IL-10 below. Not a massive difference, but I'd say the low one looks more like what Dennis & Cliff had initially (less taper, and broader at the rudder tip). Odd, being as the plan is meant to be an IL-2 

phil

Doh !
More sleepless nights and insomnia too !



Good find Phil but like you I spent some time looking through my references for a fin like Dougs drawing. Without success I regret ! A bit too late to change it now. Anyone want to buy a model ?
Regards, Dennis.

  Dennis..
       .it"s not too late!...sure you can do excatly what I done..especially since you can easily cover it up with the winter camo??

  Cliff 

Cliff Baby, what a lovely job!!

and (round of applause)

You did the right thing with the tail. Whilst there was some variation in the later models, remember the plan you have is for an IL2M, NOT an IL2type3 (the most numerous variant) and the 2M was the earlier model

Whilst in side view the 2M and 2M3 look similar, they were very different, The type 3 had a greater sweep in the outer wing panels (15degrees) than the 2M, revised rear cockpit and a different engine it is also where some rudder variations appeared. But I think the only changes in the rudder were confined to the very late 3's and 10's and was limited to an increased aerodynamic balance on the top of the rudder. I am sure I had an original book somewhere in Russian...I'll have a dig

Neil

Lovely job on the rudder mod Cliff 

  Neil and Andy..thanks!...
     .thought you wern"t watching!!   

 off to Backpool on Thurs..so will be a day or two before i get to post a couple of pics of the basic wing construction..

 cliff

Its the first time i have clapped my eyes on this thread Cliff and i must say its great to see an aircraft rarely modelled being built. Lovely looking job so far cannot wait to see the end result. I wish i had the inclination to build from plans at the moment but what with work etc i have a distinct lack of enthusiasm. Keep it rolling mate. Ian

hi cliff, great build thread, keep it up. just a quick question. do you know where to get the plans for this model.

  Hi John,
            Were do you fly at?  I"m at Ballymoney, Co. Antrim...the plan...it"s the Doug Marsh plan....from Nexus...but i believe there"s problems getting plans from them now?....there are plenty of members here who have these plans, and would probably let you have a loan of theirs to copy of?
   Well, been away for a few days, and obviously the build has stalled...but...the wing has now at least got started....here"s the main spars down, [Cyprias]...with a couple of ribs pinned down to get the feel of the wing plan...quite a bit of washout as you see!


  Cliff

The RCM&E plans (used to be Nexus) are now supplied by Encanta, the new owners/publishers/whatever of the mag.

Ring this 'enquiries' number 01689 899228 (or 01689 899200) and ask them to send you the plans catalogues or you should be able to order specifics there and then... I did a couple of months ago.

HTH,
Steve

Hey Cliff,
I'm flying from the Phoenix Park in Dublin. By the way, do you know if Skyshark are going to bring out their Sturmovik.

  John,
        I don"t think Skyshark are going ahead with theirs...BIG pity...a laser cut kit of the IL2, around the 70"-80" size would be a great kit....honestly don"t know why they stopped the project.
      Phoenix Park?....never knew there was a flying site there?....what"s it like?...and maybe I"ll bring the Shturmovik down sometime!!

  Cliff

Yeah the Phoenix Park is the biggest flying club in Ireland (not sure if that includes North, probably not). Its called Leinster Model Aeronautics Club. The website is www.lmac-online.com, I don't think its been upadated for a while. The club is basically a patch of cut grass in the Park near the Paple Cross. We have to be careful not to antagonise anyone becausae we are only a couple of hundred metres from the American Ambassadors house. I don't think they like us much.

 Cheers John,
      will deffinately get down to you sometime?...will drop ya an e-mail.

   The wing...here it is with a bit of 3/32 sheeting on, before I lift it off the board....just to be on the safe side...trailing edge on as well...along with the aileron leading edge, and riblets replaced....the red arrow shows where there is an added rib for the split flaps later in the build...



  now..I"ve posted a new thread in the IC Engines section....I"ve been told, that Irvine 150"s arn"t all that good!.....don"t need this at all now...and was wondering about getting this little gem...OS 120 AX...HALF the weight of the Irvine....and in round the same power to weight ratio!....



   Cliff 
 

Gorgeous aren't they.......I've got one, sat right here beside me on the desk.....

I haven't run it yet.......but hey..... It's an OS with over 3HP, got to be good, 16 X 8 prop at 9500 rpm.

Loadsa grunt.................        

And so tiny..........

Andy

 Andy,
         That excatly the kinda feed back I"m looking for....it"s so much lighter as well!...and nearly 15mm shorter!...looks like some overtime"s in the line for me!...pityI"ve the mount for the irvine 150 in place...but, will be worth the effort.....to be honest...what would YOU be putting in this model? 

 Cliff

what would YOU be putting in this model?

Funny you should ask that..............The IL-2 has been on my list for a while, I got the plans from Dragonwings a while ago if you remember. I bought the cyparis from Stuart (Solutions) at Much Marcle a couple of weeks ago.............I maidened the Spitfire today, a couple of mods maybe, but not much...........

So the question is what do I do next??................The Rafale or the Shturmovik..............      

I didn't get the OS 120 specifically for the Shturmovik................but it would fit rather nicely I think......

I got my engine at Much Marcle from Inwoods..............very good deal.......A mate of mine got one at an earlier show, and as all good mates do he showed it to me...............that was it.........it does look like a very nice piece of kit.........

Oh dear............what a decision

Andy

I would go with the 120 Cliff, can't go wrong there.

Andy you know what you want to do next...   buy couple of plane tickets   

 Chaps,
          Thanks for the thoughts, I must admit, I"m very, very tempted to go for one, but, after seeking some advice, and thinking it through, I"ve decided to give the irivine 150 the benifit of the doubt, not only that, to turn round and buy an engine that might not be needed would be a little excessive just at the minute, plus, I"ve a set of C/Jet retracts to purchase as well.
        Bottom line....I"ll get my engine off to Just Engines for a good looking over, and ask them to run / set it up...and, if it pulls a good size prop around  9000 revs, and is reliable, then ok......but....any hint of giving trouble, I"ll change without hesitation, the OS 120AX is a very nice, and, if I hadn"t this engine here, would be saving hard for it.
      back to the wing construction, here"s the port underside, I"ll add a bit more 3/32 sheeting to the leading edge to further strengthen it up, and am going to e-mail Dennis this pic here...just to ask how he routed his aileron cables past the position of the retract doors....what do you think?...near the flap trailing edge?


  Cliff

Hi Cliff,
Going well. It will be worth it !
Couple of pics showing where I routed the cables. No real thought went into it at the time but they conveniently ended up lying fairly deep in the wheel well between the retracted Oleo and the wheel. They seem fairly free from any interferance but now you have raised some doubts in my mind ! !
Perhaps I should tack them to the upper skins for peace of mind. To keep them clear of the retracting oleos which could conceivably push on the cables and pop them apart. ( Good job I locked the extension connections then ! )




 Having said all that; no reason why you shouldn`t route them along the trailing edge spar as you suggest ! have them completely clear of the retracts.
Which ever I`m sure you`ll do it well. Keep it up .
Regards, Dennis
Good

Hey Matrock. How did you get those gear doors to work. Did you use a sequencer or does the wheel pull them up somehow.

John,
Regret that my skills and ingenuity dont run to sequencers !
The Struts push the doors down ,sliding along the friction bars, the rubber bands pull them closed when the struts compress them on retraction. Amazingly it seems to work quite smoothly and reliably.  I intended to use springs but went for this quick fix and never got around to changing it ! The bands aren`t visible when the airframe is on the ground.
Regards,
Heath R.

  Chaps,
       Just a quick word for anyone following the build, the recent storm was sore on my shed roof  :-[ no major damage or anything, and fixed now,so will be back out at the IL2 shortly.

  Cliff 

       Well, back again at last with more done, this time, I"ve got the wing panels joined just this morning, but, will have to get another length of 1/8 ply, to make the second, full depth brace on the rear face of the spars, also. I"ve added a small 1/4 ply plug to help stiffen between thetwo centre ribs [as per plan].
     I cannot really touch it, until the second brace is epoxied in place, so will be the very next "to do" job, along with adding a possible rear, smaller spar and brace....I think Dennis has done this too?....and generally have the wing strong enough for handling etc....also, I"m keeping the retract rib bays open as long as possible....starting to think "Century jet" round-a-bout now! 


  Smaller pic of centre underside....I"ve deliberatly made longer braces...right out past the retract bays....don"t know if they will interfere with the units, or operation ..but can be easily dremeled out..had to slice in to the sheeting slightly, to get the brace epoxied to the spars....


   back later...

 Cliff

good to have you back clifford

we were all wondering what was wrong
you've been very quiet this past while

you should have given some of us a shout we would have given you a hand with the repair work on the shed

flew the pitts yesterday it was blustery but it handled it ok
i'm looking for a female pilot for it
the plane is designed after Mary Gaffney she won the womans world aerobatic competition the same year as Charlie Hillard

see you soon
andy

 Hi Andy,
  Ah..was ok really....just a bit of new felt needed etc...no point in annoying you boys out there enjoying yourselves!
     Well with the wing joined, I simply coud"nt resist it.. ..at last something like an IL2  ....still tons to do..so won"t hang about...back out to get the leading edges on..and some wiring / plumbling in the wing panels.



and from a slightly higher angle...




  Cliff  8)

 

She's looking good Cliff...........well done buddy   

What's Russian for..........

Tally Hooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo     

Andy

Tally Hoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooski 

Ot shot , bleen kristianen!! Inostraxi zhopi!!

Rysski za "Tally Ho" y tebe est dvier varianti: ili "URRRAAAAAH" ili "DAVAI" Cho Xochesh???

Ny vse, konets rysski yrok....

Neil

p.s Tiger est malinki prichendali!! 

LMAO.............

        

LMAO.............

        

you wouldn't laugh if you knew that 'Malinki' is russian for 'Small' ...guess you can figure out the rest...

btw ...lovely job cliff, have you see that IL2 scheme with the painting of the IL2 shooting down the He111 on the side of the rear fuz??

Neil

Come on Neil   give us a fighting chance  type in Russian  not the English wording of it 

I have a russian language download on here   it should read it ok (or probabaly not ) 

SWEET.................... ..................lookin good over there mate

Cliff, that really looks the bizzo 

   Thanks chaps,
     I"ve  been starting the flaps....3/32..with a laminate of 1/32 ply...which is left on the outside surface....last one along is propped open to give an idea...big and effective, and will be asking the best settings from Dennis later...along with 100 or so other questions.
    The Irivine 150 is at Just engines for a good going over...and Phil is sorting the retracts...so.....just left to post the pic!



   back later....

 Cliff

Excellent stuff, as usual Cliff. I really enjoyed your crop sprayer build by the way.

I don't know how you find the time to build so quickly, and so well. What's the secret? Do you lock yourself in your shed for countless hours, to the exclusion of all else?

However you do it I'm impressed Cliff, so keep it up! 


P.S. This aircraft always reminded me of the Fairy Battle. It seems to have a generally similar outline, and was, I believe, intended for a similar operational role. It seems odd that the Sturmovik was a total success for the Russian Air Force, and the Battle was almost an utter failure for the RAF when used as a light bomber.