Topic: SE5 restoration

I'd also use Ashlok servo connectors simply because they're much more secure for the temporary connections you need for detachable things like wings.  Ash is closing down but he still has stock http://ashtekelectronics.com/shop/ .   You will need a crimp tool to fit the pins but it's worth being able to make your own custom made servo leads anyway.

I seem to remember little plastic clips that were designed to hold more permanent servo extension plugs/sockets together being available.  I prefer either to solder extensions together or replace a whole servo lead to the length I need but that entails taking the servo apart and a decent miniature soldering iron.

Geoff

OK. I've done some more research into this. It has been suggested to me that for servo wires that run a long way through innaccessible parts of the model I should consider buying some genuine Futaba servo wire and soldering these wires rather than using connectors.

The reason being that the standard connectors are not so good when used in a situation where they are never unplugged and plugged in again. The process of unplugging and plugging in again is supposed to help clean the connectors and make sure they have a good connection. This makes good sense really.

I'm quite happy to do this, and it seems like a sensible suggestion. What do people think?

After many excellent flights with my SE5 and the Laser 200V I have a problem with the engine. I'm pretty certain that the front bearing has failed. Quite an alarming amount of black gunge was coming out of the exhausts, along with a mechanical noise that didn't sound good.

Details

Details

Details

I took the front off the engine last night to find score marks on the inside of the block where the crank counter balance has been scraping at the metal. This, I presume is the muck that has been coming out of the exhausts.

Now, the engine is about 4 years old. It has had regular use, with a good quality  5% fuel. Looking at the Laser website, I can return the engine for a service which will cost about £70 quid. Or, I can order a new bearing and do the work myself.

What would people suggest?

Thanks,

Giles

Do it yourself Giles, it's not hard to do and very satisfying when you run it up again and all is quiet    Once you get eh bearings out check their size and order from EBay for peanuts.

Is it the kind of procedure I'll be able to do? I don't want to start it and make a muck of the job! The bearing is about £7.50 from Laser.

I wonder if there is something on the web that would give me some instructions?

You can definitely do it yourself IIRC there is a youtube vid of someone stripping down and putting back together a 4 stroke........... they are all pretty similar inside I will have a look for it.
If you do mess it up it's not problem as long as you don't damage anything which TBH you cant unless you are silly with it.  All else fails you hand it over to someone who puts it back together for you    1st thing to do is check the position of the cam for the valve timing in relation to crank position take a photo of it and or write it down that's the trickiest part of the rebuild.

Not a Laser but you can get the idea:

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2WO9LRBIc_g" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2WO9LRBIc_g</a>

I find Lasers are difficult to strip down .The screws are incredibly tight .I have several Allen keys which resemble barley sugar trying to slacken Laser screws. I heat the screw area with a heat gun to ease the problem

Alan

I think I am going to get Laser to service this engine for me. For some time the left hand exhaust has been emitting a blacker gunge than the right. I wasn't really worried about this at the time, but now that a major failure in the engine has resulted in more black gunge but from both exhausts I think I'd rather the professionals did the work. It isn't cheap, but neither was the engine, and I want it to continue to be as reliable and rewarding as it always has been.

Best decision, Giles.

IIRC Laser engines have the camshafts in a seperate compartment at the rear of the engine. The layout is unlike any other 4-stroke and there are no timing marks. With knowledge and prior experience the job of resetting cam timing after stripdown is straightforward. OS, ASP, SC etc are easy. Saitos are a little more complex, but still straightforward. Lasers require some specialist skills and knowledge - get it wrong and the valves may collide with the pistons.

Mike

Laser engine posted back the Hemel today. A little part of me is waiting for the call telling me I've done terrible damage to the engine!

Most annoyingly I broke both my home made exhausts getting them out of the heads last night. I'll have to order some more Mick Reeves flexible pipe and get silver soldering again. Something I could have done without!

I'm going to take the opportunity to re-work the covering of the engine bay whilst the engine is out. The varnish I used has been slowly coming adrift. I was thinking of making up some litho plate based liner, thereby keeping all the muck off the wood. I have plenty of litho, and there is plenty of space in the engine bay.

Laser's do flex exhausts for a very reasonable  price .I used them on my DB pups 200 v twin
The valve timing is no problem the cam gear is in a separate compartment at the back of the engine and is driven by a disk with a slot in it which is in turn driven by the crank pin engaging in the slot .so long as you leave the rear compartment alone you can't miss assemble the engine .The main bearings are on the front housing which comes off (if you can undo the screws)

Alan

Laser tell me I need new conrods too - so the total cost of the repair is around 110 pounds. The big problem has been corrosion inside the engine. I am planning to devise a method of pinching the fuel tubes and therefore be able to run the engine dry at the end of a day flying, and thereby reducing the chance of raw fuel sloshing about in the engine.

I will also be more adding more oil (2 stroke motor oil) to the crank case more often. The model is stored in it's upright position, as if it were sitting ready to take off. This means any oil inside the engine will drain away from the front bearing. So I need to add oil and occasionally leave the model in an engine down position to keep some oil at the front.

As an after-run treatment I use a 50/50 mix of petrol and automatic transmission fluid and I’ve never had any problems with my Lasers; this was recommended years ago by an Australian “engine expert”, not sure of his name, could be Brian Winch?

I inject a syringe full into the crankcase breather (until it starts to leak through the front bearing), turn the engine over a few times then leave it nose down for an hour or so to drain into an old paint tub filled with sand.

The mixture is very thin so gets to every part of the engine and the petrol evaporates leaving a thin coat of oil.  I do it after every run and before the first run after the winter lay-up.

Hello all,

I have my engine back from Laser, for 90 quid, less than expected. My next task is to improve the engine bay. The paint/varnish I applied to the inside of the engine bay has started to peel off. Now that everything is out I need to take the opportunity to improve this. I will clean off the peeling paint. Then I'm thinking about cutting litho plate up and making a litho plate lined engine bay, with epoxy run down the sides to seal it.

Any thoughts on this?

Giles

Now you’ve got your Laser back I’d suggest you use the “after run” treatment every time; it works out a lot cheaper in the long run!

Another thing is the crankcase breather; if you think about it, it works like a pump sucking air in and blowing air and oil out of the crankcase.  It is common practice to use fuel tubing to extend the breather out of the bottom of the model because of the oil that is expelled. All well and good, but in dry weather, when we all do most of our flying, dirt and grit get blown about by the prop right where it can get sucked into the crankcase so I always include a fuel filter in the breather extension.

I may be paranoid but I’ve never had a bearing failure!!

I have cleaned off the old and peeling paint from the inside of the engine bay. The wood underneath seems to be in good condition, but I am thinking that the best thing is to line the engine bay with litho sheets with epoxy glue holding it in place and as a way of sealing the corners of the bay - like a bathroom sealant goes around a bath.

However, I want to paint the wood before I cover it with litho. What would people recommend as the best paint/treatment for an engine bay?

Glass resin will give it an impervious surface negating the need for litho.

I'd steer clear of the litho, if fuel does seep under it you wont know untiI it's too late! I always use epoxy to glue everything together then silver Solarlac, 2 or 3 coats; it really builds up in corners, shows up (and fills) any small holes and gives that  aluminium look.

I have plenty of the war birds paints which seem to be pretty fuel proof. I could use them. I can give it loads of coats!

I used Warbirds paint on my SE5a and would certainly recomend it for finishing but it's quite thin so doesn't "build up and fill in" like Solarlac, which I much prefer for engine bays.

OK, I'll order some tomorrow. It looks like you can buy a specific thinners for it, is that necessary? I'd rather not pay for that if I can use something more common to clean up!

I got some good silver soldering done tonight mending the damage I did when I took the engine out - it was nowhere near as hard as last time! Hopefully the re-assembly will be straight forward and I can get on with adding the scale detail I've been putting off.

Solarlac thins with celly thinners these days .It used to thin with a chlorinated hydrocarbon mix which has been outlawed due to toxicity . BTW Solarlac is about the same as Hammerite  smooth . The Hammerite tends to be sold less thinned than solarlac.

Alan

Interesting, does Hammerite smooth have the same fuel proof qualities?

I would still consider resin you can always paint it after if you are worried about colour.

Here is what my engine bay looks like with everything removed. I have cleaned all the old varnish and paint off and cleaned it with meths. My plan is to paint it black again with some water based black paint and then cover with Poly-C, which is what everything else on the model is covered with.

With any type of coating the 1st coats are the most important.  Putting a hard coat on a softer coat may allow you to poke through the hard coat if you see what I mean.  When varnishing my 1st coats go on thinned down like water almost so it soaks into the surface the same goes for painting the primer thinned right down so it soaks in well rather than sits on the top.  My father was a boat builder so was always fighting water ingress and I learned my painting from him .. I'm still crepe at it compared to him though 

So what you're suggesting is that the initial coats of black should be well thinned, and would therefore soak in and provide a much better solid base. Good idea. Perhaps I'll scrape off a bit more of the old covering first.

What you have left on will probably be fine I was just saying how I paint/varnish myself but that would normally be on new wood.  It's upto you if you clean more off I guess if it's holding that well dont bother.

Interesting, does Hammerite smooth have the same fuel proof qualities?

Yes  I have found it  fuel proof  , it appears to be identical to solarlac just thicker . I can't find out the chemistry so its difficult to be sure they are exactly the same, but they smell the same, go on the same and dry the same. They both need some days curing time before becoming fuel proof and need a second coat ether within 2 hours or after fully cured or they react.

Alan

Wooden Props. I have a nice wooden prop that will look lovely on the front of my SE5. The instructions from Laser say not to use wooden props, and I'm wondering why?

I completed the installation of my engine, and the engine bay is nice and fuel proofed. I am now finally getting around to adding the scale details that the model is missing. Pictures to follow.

Perhaps it's due to the flywheel affect of a non wooden prop?  You can always paint a nylon type with white primer then over that with a stain varnish to make it look wooden even make it look laminated 

OK, I have some pictures of the long delayed scale detail additions to my SE5.

I've been planning on adding some nice detail for about two years, and I'm finally getting around to it. My approach is to decide which details I'd like, or which are the most obvious by their absence. Then, seeing as this is not an exact scale model, I work out the most effective way of making something representative of that scale detail. I'm not going to be competing with this model, just enjoying it. Up until now I have very much been enjoying flying the model. Now I want to finish it off.

The most obvious omission was the guns, then there are many small access panels, riggin details etc, and the cockpit.

First, these are the two items I've made from litho for the Vickers gun area - the top panel is the access for the gun, the other is the spent round ejection flap. When compared to what the real items look like these are not very accurate, but I'm quite pleased with them. I have also made the gunsite for the Vickers.



I have used a leather off cut to make the surround to the cockpit area. This was glued over some flexible plasticpipe I got from Mick Reeves, and is actually Land Rover Discovery leather!



These two items I am less pleased with, they just look too stuck on. I think I'll add some filler around them and blend the paint around them. They are the fuel filler cap, and a piece that resembles the conning tower of a submarine. I have no idea as to its' function. Anyone?



I also have made one of the oil level inspection hatches:

The next task is the Lewis Gun and Foster mount. I got a 1/4 scale Lewis gun kit from Mick Reeves, and have made a start on that.



I'm certain those with better modeling skills than mine can get a great result with these kits, however, I am going to change the kit a little to suit my needs and skills. I'm using a brass tube as the lower barrel, and a small piece of copper as the main attachment for this to the Foster Mount - this should give me some good strength.



The actual magazine provided with the kit is a vacuum formed piece of plastic. I am going to use a 3d model of a magazine and get this rapid prototyped. I was initially thinking about getting the whole gun rapid prototyped, as I have a good 3d model of one. However, for cost reasons I am going to limit myself to just the magazine. There are some very good reference images of these guns on the Vintage Aviator website, and I'm going to make a nice detailed 3d model. Here is how it looks so far:





There is lots more detail to add though. It should look pretty good when done, and very visible on the top of the model.

The "conning tower" is the air dome, it covers the air inlet pipe which pressurises the fuel tank. With a set of Replicraft drawings to hand one can answer virtually any question.

                                                                       Dave.

Some progress on my Lewis gun and it's Foster mount. I've added some extra detail to the Mick Reeves kit, and worked up the method of attaching the gun to the mount. This is using some copper plumbing joints and brass sheet. The mount will be ply, and the gun will be bolted through the ply mount.

I need to be able to take the gun off the mount as it won't go into my car with it on! It really complicates things when you need to be able to take something apart, and even more so when the item needs to be strong.

I've been careful to make sure that the mount and the way the gun attaches to the mount is strong enough not to be affected by the wind. The gun is out of the prop blast though.







I've cut holes in the top wing centre section, and there are also larger holes underneath so I can add some reinforcement within the wing to strengthen up the way the mount is glued to the center section.





I have also been working on some hatch detail. These are two methods of making the same piece. One is a single piece of litho, the other is two, and some miniature piano hinge. I'm not sure which I prefer!

IMHO the one on the right as one views the picture looks the more realistic
Mike

Always been a big SE fan; and this thread, along with the excellent job done by Norfolk n good Shaun on his, is inspiring me to get mine underway.
I bought a just-started-but fed-up with -it Duncan Hutson 1/4 (almost) scale SE kit last year.
Anybody watching built one of those ?

Some more progress with my Lewis gun. Here is the mount once it has been laminated, three layers of ply with balsa around the base of each leg to make it look thicker.



I added some brass sheet within the layers of plywood where the two main bolts will go holding the gun to the mount. Because I need to take the gun on and off to get the fuselage in the car (quicker and easier than taking the undercarriage off) the mounting holes need to be quite robust.



Here is the mount on the wing. There are larger holes cut underneath the top wing centre section, where I will glue and reinforce the mount onto the centre section



Here is the gun trial fitted to the mount. The copper heating union that I used for the main mount is nice and strong, and once bolted to the mount the gun is nice and secure. I don't want it to fly off at altitude!





Ready for painting. I'm going to use filler primer on the mount, and plenty of rubbing down to get the finish smooth and free of wood grain!



The final finish is sprayed on satin black, with some graphite powder added once dry using an old toothbrush, this really makes a nice gun metal sheen to the stain black, and nicely varies the texture of the black metal. The wood is stained with some standard furniture wood dye






When the wooden handle sections were stained, I rolled a knurled hand drill handle over the stain to introduce a slightly patterned texture to the finish of the wood. Not a perfect result, but it does add to the finish.

I'm pleased with the result of the gun and the mount. It has taken a very long time though! Probably a total of around 5 working days, which sounds like a lot. The requirement to be able to remove the gun from the mount, whilst retaining the strength it needs not to blow off certainly makes life harder.






Of course there are two components missing. The magazine and the metal slide that runs from in front of the cockpit to the back of the mount, and the ammunition magazine itself. These are going to be rapid prototyped. I've made the 3d models of these:





The machine that will be used has a resolution of 0.028mm - which is really quite small! I'm looking forwards to seeing what the outcome is for these parts.

I've got my two components back from being rapid prototyped. This is the Lewis Gun magazine:




And this is part of the Foster mount which runs from the top of the fuselage in front of the cockpit up to behind the trailing edge of the top wing.



And here they are placed in position, although because it is not glued on the mount has fallen down a little - hence the gap.



So I'll be getting these painted and fixed on shortly.

I'm pleased with the results of this process. I wanted to do it using the rapid protoype method as I was curious to see how it worked out, and these two parts were ideal being very visible on the model and hard to make. Well, hard for me anyway. Making the 3d model didn't take me long, I do that for a living.

I need some advice. I need to make six inspection window details. These are where the control cables would come out of the wings for the ailerons, and from the horizontal stabiliser for the elevators. I've seen various ways of these being made up on full size SE5s - some are hidden under what look like fabric tapes, others are more metal looking frames.





I had a crack at making something out of litho - but it didn't go at all well, and to make six of these will take me and my limited litho working skills quite a while.





I think I like the under the tape style anyway. I had to repair a patch under a wing recently and used some medical "micropore" tape, the kind of thing you hold a dressing onto skin with. It is a very porous tape, so the paint soaks into it nicely.

I'm wondering about cutting the hole in the covering, using some thin ply (0.4mm I think) to make the triangular raised section, then using this mircopore to secure this to the existing covering on the wing and then re-painting. Presumably if I clean the wing of any fuel or other gunge and perhaps key is slightly the paint will take just fine. I could even give this tape a coat or two of Poly-C before painting.

It sounds like a much more straight forward method to me - and will probably be a better result.

What do people think?