Topic: 2.4Ghz system?

Question for Gordon -
 is there any public announcement from Multiplex about 2.4Ghz Tx modules and rx becoming available?  Spektrums are appearing at my club now, they are hoovering up the market at the lower end of computer Tx, Futaba and JR have announced their systems to be available later this year, Xtreme has at last started selling its modules with telemetry for any brand including Multiplex, Nomadio claims it will have Multiplex inspired 2.4ghz sets "soon".  It seems like Multiplex having once been the leaders of almost every new development is right at the back of the queue this time.  What's happening?

regards,
Harry

Hi!

I'll ask them again when I am there a week on Monday!

Regards

G.

Good question. I've been wondering that too. 

Any word from them Gordon?  Xtreme is about to start shipping modules for Profi and Evo - www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=683096&page=2

Hi!

MPX are very much aware of the potential of the 2.4gig systems and the potential market.  However, there are several issues with the operational performance of 2.4gig which concern them and these need to be addressed if you want to be able to ‘spot’ an 8m glider.  The RnD section are on the case but as yet, there is no date when anything will be announced, as extensive, in-depth testing would be required on what is possibly some unexplored territory of the performance envelope.

Sounds like BS, I know, but we all know the performance of 35meg systems and have worked safely within it’s parameters for 30 odd years!

Another issue that needs addressing is the use of third party add-on modules.  It should be noted that any modifications to any make of radio set is done entirely at the operators risk and may invalidate any warrantee offered.  Something to bear in mind I feel!

Thanks

Gordon.

Another issue that needs addressing is the use of third party add-on modules.  It should be noted that any modifications to any make of radio set is done entirely at the operators risk and may invalidate any warrantee offered.  Something to bear in mind I feel!

Thanks

Gordon.

Hi Gordon

My understanding is that the 3rd party unit could get type approval and thus be legal. It would mean getting approval in each type of Tx just as MPX do with each Tx. Given the potential size of the market, this could well be worthwhile if MPX drag their feet for too long and miss the boat.

My understanding is that the 3rd party unit could get type approval and thus be legal. It would mean getting approval in each type of Tx just as MPX do with each Tx. Given the potential size of the market, this could well be worthwhile if MPX drag their feet for too long and miss the boat.

I don't actually see how they could do that. Normally this kind of type approval requires a Statement of Design, and the SoD can only be provided by the design authority for the equipment. As such 3rd-party module manufacturers would not be able to supply a SoD for the entire system so achieving Type Approval would be difficult.

PDR

If I get a Royal Evo 9 set, will it definately be compatable with any future 2.4 modules in the future? Same questions for the Cockpit as well....

There are two possible answers - "yes" and "no". Only time will tell which of these is correct.

PDR

  There was me just about to join the "club"...  Money will stay firmly in bank then...

There was me just about to join the "club"...  Money will stay firmly in bank then...

Stuey, I would guess Evo yes and SX no.

Reasoning?

Evo has been around for a long time and has a big following. Multiplex would be mad not to produce a module for it.

SX is quite new and is the budget model, hence my bet is that they would release a separate version of it or a budget equivalent whole Tx rather than module.

But then I don't own/run Multiplex so they may have different reasoning. I'm delighted with my SX. In fact the only person I've heard say anything bad about it is Ron (Bugsb) who has been struggling for ages to get it to work on jellycopters.

Stuey it's a no for the Cockpit, as this is not a modular system. I should imagine Multiplex might introduce a 2.4 version of the SX when they're ready though. The other modular sets will no doubt appear in 2.4 guise in time too, although it's typically Multiplex not to rush something into production until it's been thoroughly tested and proven. You can bet when Multiplex 2.4 gear does finally appear it'll retain an edge over the competition, just as their current 35mhz equipment does.

I shouldn't be over concerned with the current 2.4 hype stuey, 35mhz still works as well as it always did. Well Multiplex 35mhz does anyway!

Believe us stuey, the "club" is still well worth joining! 

Believe us stuey, the "club" is still well worth joining! 

certainly is 

even if the EVO does`nt have a snap roll switch   

pete

certainly is 

even if the EVO does`nt have a snap roll switch   

pete

It's got an egg roll switch though. 

certainly is 

even if the EVO does`nt have a snap roll switch  

Who says it hasn't? It has switches, and the ability to programme pretty well any combination of controls onto any switch event, so I'd say that it actually has SEVERAL snap-roll switches if you want them.

PDR

are any switches spring loaded?

Yes.  There are two push button switches on the sides of the case.  H and M I think they are labelled, and they can be set up to act as momentary contact or latching contacts.

Failing that you can always swap out one of the two way switches for a spring loaded one instead.  They use a fairly standard type of switch.

Cheers
Andy

are any switches spring loaded?

There are two push-buttons below the 3-position switches on each side of the Tx (the ones people often use for things like "flight phase") which can be set to "momentary" or "latching" in the software, and then if you use the long stick-ends there is also the stick-mounted "HOTAS" buttons. And that's just the standard setup. There are also two positions in which additional 2-position switches can be installed and whilst the standard multiplex parts for these are simple toggle switches they're standard sub-micro switch footprint. So there's nothing stopping you from fitting push-buttons or spring-momentary switches in these positions (or any of the other sub-micro switch styles available for pennies from RS, Maplin etc). Once fitted these switches can be programmed to do more or less anything, like all the switches, sliders and sticks on an Evo or Profi transmitter.

PDR

So chipmunk, you have your answer.

It seems the Evo has several possible snap roll buttons/ switches. All you have to do is decide which you want to use, and assign/program it!

P.S. Without actually looking at mine, I think even the cheapo Cockpit Sx has the facility for a snap-roll type control.
I just checked, and it has. 

So chipmunk, you have your answer.

It seems the Evo has several possible snap roll buttons/ switches. All you have to do is decide which you want to use, and assign/program it!

P.S. Without actually looking at mine, I think even the cheapo Cockpit Sx has the facility for a snap-roll type control.
I just checked, and it has. 

Cheapo! - how very dare you!   We prefer 'Entry Level'!

Yep!  It's called a fixed position switch.  It was a feature put on by one of the designers who flies DLGs so he could lock the surfaces in a launch config.  It can be programmed to position any of the 3 control surfaces in any position when you push the spring loaded switch.  However, keep your finger away from it when you are landing and and involuntary twitch will have the spectators p!ssing themselves! 

Ta!

G.

Sorry Gordon, I ought to have known better.

From my days involved in sales many years ago, I was often reminded that nothing was ever cheap, it was just less expensive.

The Sx is something of a bargain though, especially when compared to the Futaba FF7. I find I'm actually using mine just as much as my 4000! And entry level sounds just fine to me Gordon! Why folk still buy FF6's and 7's beats me. If they only but realised the software in the Sx was capable of sweeping all competition (at the price) under the carpet. And that's before you take the synth capability into consideration!

P.S. Gordon, you haven't seen my flying on a bad day. Sometimes I get perilously close to involuntary bladder movements too, and that's without touching a snap roll button.

Cheapo! - how very dare you!   We prefer 'Entry Level'!

As in that traditional english saying "Entry Level as Chips"?



PDR

P.S. Gordon, you haven't seen my flying on a bad day. Sometimes I get perilously close to involuntary bladder movements too, and that's without touching a snap roll button.

Snap crap button? 

I'll suggest that at the next sales meeting when they are discussing the adverts!

G

I'll suggest that at the next sales meeting when they are discussing the adverts!

G

ah yes, and don't forget the launch date for 2.4 as well 

In view of Graupner's recently announced launch of 2.4 Ghz kit has this increased Multiplex's efforts in getting their own system sorted?  I must say I'm seriously tempted.   

The Sx is something of a bargain though, especially when compared to the Futaba FF7. I find I'm actually using mine just as much as my 4000! And entry level sounds just fine to me Gordon! Why folk still buy FF6's and 7's beats me. If they only but realised the software in the Sx was capable of sweeping all competition (at the price) under the carpet. And that's before you take the synth capability into consideration!

Whilst I don't use a FF7 (9z's), I have programmed loads and they seem pretty straight forward and flexible, what sweeping the rest under the carpet features does the Multiplex entry level Tx have ?

Regards - J

Hi John

If we're referring specifically to the Cockpit Sx then these features may be worthy of mention

1. Built to FTZ standards.
2. Electronic "Y" lead facility built in.
3. Large capacity Tx pack (1500mah nimh)
4  Software updates can be downloaded from Multiplex's website.
5. Stainless steel Tx antenna, can be replaced with Multiplex stub aerial if reqd.
6. Full 4 servo glider wing capability.
7. Can be user changed to any mode, without opening Tx case. Modes 1 to 8 supported
8. Switched flight phases available.
9. User adjustable battery alarm threshold.
10.Multiplex's "Channel Check" system can be retro fitted by user after purchase, if desired.
11. Memories can be transferred to pc or laptop (and back to Tx) using Multiplex's free data manager software.

Will these do John?

Hi John

If we're referring specifically to the Cockpit Sx then these features may be worthy of mention

1. Built to FTZ standards.

Can't comment on this one, I have no knowledge what it is, I can say however that in 20 years of model flying I have never had a Futaba Tx fail. Thats good enough for me

2. Electronic "Y" lead facility built in.

Isn't that just the same as mixing 2 channels together, 100% couple with master and slave selectable?

3. Large capacity Tx pack (1500mah nimh)

Surely the important fact here is how much stick time you get from a charge eg, if a Tx takes 1.5 amps and has a 1500 battery you would get around 1 hour of operation whereas if a Tx only take 0.5 A and has a 1000 battery fitted you would get 2 hours. I don't know in either case what the relevant operational time is with the batteries installed.

4  Software updates can be downloaded from Multiplex's website.

If it's so good, why would you need to? (tongue in cheek comment)

5. Stainless steel Tx antenna, can be replaced with Multiplex stub aerial if reqd.

Again, not sure I see the advantage of this either

6. Full 4 servo glider wing capability.

I don't see why this can't be done on the FF7

7. Can be user changed to any mode. Modes 1 to 8 supported

Well, how many times is a user going to do this, this one is a really valuable option, sorry, this is a joke IMHO

8. Switched flight phases available.

Yep OK, this does have 'some' uses, I suspect most users wont use it much.

9. User adjustable battery alarm threshold.

I think we're scraping the bottom of the barrel a bit here, again, why would you want to adjust this? Maybe if you change battery chemistry, I wouldn't consider this when decideing which Tx to buy. I have it on my (z's and have never adjusted it.

10.Multiplex's "Channel Check" system can be retro fitted by user after purchase, if desired.

Well I feel this has limited value but it is a feature as you rightly say.

11. Memories can be transferred to pc or laptop.

Accept this has some value.

Will these do John?

There are some features, I would hardly call any of them essential and I don't think it puts it head and shoulders above the rest. As I have said before, there are no bad Tx's from the mainstream manufacturers, they all have different features. If one system has the features you like then go for it. Me personally, I'm leaving the Futaba camp and going to JR when the 2.4 GHz high end sets become available in the UK.

Regards - J

Hi John

If you're happy with Futaba/Jr that's fine, stick with them.    Personally I think you're splitting hairs at best. With regard to your being dismissive of Multiplex's online sofware updates, I could say the same about Futaba, couldn't I? The difference being Futaba want you buy a whole new Tx, as they don't do software updates for their low/mid range sets.

And neither would I call a feature capable of saving £100's of pounds worth of model (both mine and other people's) of limited value. Remember John, Multiplex have had Channel Check available on their sets for 10 years. No other manufacturer has offered anything similar until now.

Still, you're entitled to your opinion John.

Can't comment on this one, I have no knowledge what it is, I can say however that in 20 years of model flying I have never had a Futaba Tx fail. Thats good enough for me
Isn't that just the same as mixing 2 channels together, 100% couple with master and slave selectable?
Surely the important fact here is how much stick time you get from a charge eg, if a Tx takes 1.5 amps and has a 1500 battery you would get around 1 hour of operation whereas if a Tx only take 0.5 A and has a 1000 battery fitted you would get 2 hours. I don't know in either case what the relevant operational time is with the batteries installed.
If it's so good, why would you need to? (tongue in cheek comment)
Again, not sure I see the advantage of this either
I don't see why this can't be done on the FF7
Well, how many times is a user going to do this, this one is a really valuable option, sorry, this is a joke IMHO
Yep OK, this does have 'some' uses, I suspect most users wont use it much.
I think we're scraping the bottom of the barrel a bit here, again, why would you want to adjust this? Maybe if you change battery chemistry, I wouldn't consider this when decideing which Tx to buy. I have it on my (z's and have never adjusted it.
Well I feel this has limited value but it is a feature as you rightly say.
Accept this has some value.
There are some features, I would hardly call any of them essential and I don't think it puts it head and shoulders above the rest. As I have said before, there are no bad Tx's from the mainstream manufacturers, they all have different features. If one system has the features you like then go for it. Me personally, I'm leaving the Futaba camp and going to JR when the 2.4 GHz high end sets become available in the UK.

Regards - J

I ended up getting a DX7 for various reasons but the Cockpit SX was at the top of my shortlist of 35MHz sets.  What you neglected to mention in any of that is the price, you're comparing it to a FF7 when if you look at the price it should be the 6EX (Futaba's entry level computer set) otherwise it's apples and oranges.  If you do this then the Cockpit SX's feature set wins hands down.

Couldn't have put it better myself Mark. For the price the Sx offers amazing value.

 

In a strictly "debating over a pint" tone (ie not trying to pick a fight):

Can't comment on this one, I have no knowledge what it is, I can say however that in 20 years of model flying I have never had a Futaba Tx fail. Thats good enough for me

Me neither (and in my case make that 30+ years before switching to the Evo earlier this year), although it does give some additional confidence that it's designed and qualified to a national standard for electronic equipment.

Isn't that just the same as mixing 2 channels together, 100% couple with master and slave selectable?

More or less, but you don't have to use up one of your precious mixers to do it, and you can do it with the OUTPUTS of mixed channels rather than just the stick inputs.

Again, not sure I see the advantage of this either

The St/Stl antenna is easier to keep clean, stronger and has better conductivity than the usual chrome-plated brass ones. The optional short "rubber duck" antenna is mor convenient for many types of user, and whilst people have fitted them to other makes of Tx this is one of the few that is available as a fully "DA-Approved" item which can be fited without invalidating the CE Approval, which could put the user in a better position if they find themselves facing a criminal damage or manslaughter charge.

I don't see why this can't be done on the FF7

The 4-servo-wing facility gives switchable full-flapperon (camber change) and crow-brake functions without using up mixers or restricting the choice of control layout. On the original FF-super-7 this could be done witha  "work around", but only if you used the throttle stick for flaps (ie you would have to put the throttle on a swicth or knob if you wanted it on a powered model like an electric sailplane). It also used both free mixers, so you were stuck if you wanted these for anything else. I believe the current FF7 and 6EX can't do it all all because they lack sufficient free mixers - indeed the FF9c struggles to do it (according to the Futaba website FAQ) and need some creative work-arounds.

Well, how many times is a user going to do this, this one is a really valuable option, sorry, this is a joke IMHO

It allows felxibility (). And to further expand the point - assuming it's like the Evo9/12 the mode can be different in different model memories rather than a global setting.

Yep OK, this does have 'some' uses, I suspect most users wont use it much.

Flight phases are jolly useful things for glider, aerobatic, helicopter and 3D flying - that's quite a few users rather than just "some"

I think we're scraping the bottom of the barrel a bit here, again, why would you want to adjust this? Maybe if you change battery chemistry, I wouldn't consider this when decideing which Tx to buy. I have it on my (z's and have never adjusted it.

It allows the user to compensate for battery age and usage pattern. A user who mainly flies very short flights (eg a Shockie flier) might decide to run closer to the edge than one who mainly flies (say) thermal soarers whose typical flight duration might be an hour or more.

Well I feel this has limited value but it is a feature as you rightly say.

Opinions are divided...

There are some features, I would hardly call any of them essential and I don't think it puts it head and shoulders above the rest. As I have said before, there are no bad Tx's from the mainstream manufacturers, they all have different features. If one system has the features you like then go for it. Me personally, I'm leaving the Futaba camp and going to JR when the 2.4 GHz high end sets become available in the UK.

It's a "bang for buck" thing. This set competes with most entry-level sets on price, but offers some features which even the 9c or 9x struggle to match for twice the price.

Brian also forgot to mention the 12 model memory and syth module as standard fitment - things which nothing else in this price bracket offers. Personally I feel that the Evo9 offers even better bang-for-buck, but not all users want to spend £290 on a Tx.

PDR

Thanks PDR, that says it all really. I couldn't be bothered at the time, as I needed a cup of tea!

I purposely didn't mention the 12 model memory, as some of the newer sets now have storage capacity in excess of this. However, none of the opposition's sets in this price bracket offer the option to transfer memories to a pc or laptop, which is still quite an advantage I feel. I didn't mention the synth capabilty either, as my intention was to point out the Sx's advantages other than synth operation.

And you're right, it is pretty much a "bang for buck" issue. But prospective buyers of sub £150 tx's would do well to look closely at the Sx, assuming they don't get carried away on the 2.4ghz bandwagon. 

Brian also forgot to mention the 12 model memory and syth module as standard fitment

Obviously that should have read "synth module". The Syth module is only available on the Profi 4010 Imperial Tx, and this is of limited appeal due to its unique buddy-box protocol ("master-Apprentice" rather than the more common "master-slave"). But it does have the cute red double-ended rubber-duck antenna...

PDR

Obviously that should have read "synth module". The Syth module is only available on the Profi 4010 Imperial Tx, and this is of limited appeal due to its unique buddy-box protocol ("master-Apprentice" rather than the more common "master-slave"). But it does have the cute red double-ended rubber-duck antenna...

PDR

Presumably only available in sinister shiny black.  I suspect that there is no CE clearance for the Force emissions.   

If you're happy with Futaba/Jr that's fine, stick with them.    Personally I think you're splitting hairs at best. With regard to your being dismissive of Multiplex's online sofware updates, I could say the same about Futaba, couldn't I?

Sorry, I'm not meaning to offend anyone here, I was merely stating that I don't feel the points you have mentioned put Multiplex head and shoulders above the rest. What I DID say was that there are no poor systems from the mainstream manufacturers etc.

The difference being Futaba want you buy a whole new Tx, as they don't do software updates for their low/mid range sets.

Thats not quite true, the original FF7 could be upgraded from 4 model to 8 model memory for a minimal fee, not as convenient as downloading like Multiplex, of all the points this one to me carries most in the desireability scores.

And neither would I call a feature capable of saving £100's of pounds worth of model (both mine and other people's) of limited value. Remember John, Multiplex have had Channel Check available on their sets for 10 years. No other manufacturer has offered anything similar until now.

As I have said before in a similar discussion this would be a superb safety feature if all Tx's had it. With only Multiplex having it it does devalue it's potential, nice to have but of greater value to others rather than the Tx owner.

Still, you're entitled to your opinion John.

Thanks for the permission 

Kind Regards - J

In a strictly "debating over a pint" tone

Ditto

I purposely didn't mention the 12 model memory, as some of the newer sets now have storage capacity in excess of this. However, none of the opposition's sets in this price bracket offer the option to transfer memories to a pc or laptop, which is still quite an advantage I feel. I didn't mention the synth capabilty either, as my intention was to point out the Sx's advantages other than synth operation.

But it must be said that most of the opposition's sets do offer modern communications protocols and not just PPM..... 

Steve

What hasn't been mentioned is that the SX is so simple to programme. I'd never programmed a Tx before the SX. Took me about 2-3 hours including a dry run without the rx switched on. As I've mentioned before my flying instructor tried for nearly three hours to get a loaned futaba seven channel Tx to work with my (then) flap and aileron winged glider to get crow brakes etc.. Not a chance, he showed me how he would do it on his profi, took about thirty seconds! I then did the same on the SX.. piece of urine. 

yeah it is easy. a couple of times recently i have taken my sx out when flying. only to realise one of the models i had brought was programmed on my other TX.  although they were simple models, it took a matter of moments to get them going. obviously i was able to switch the proper frequency as well.

i'm really happy with my sx now.  the V-tail set up is great. I had it wrong on my glider and a club mate thought i was going to have to start digging the wires out - just a few clicks of the wheel and it was fine.....