Topic: Strap in for a long ride.... The doc is going to try his hand at a plan build...

Hi folks,

The building board can at last see the light at the end of the tunnel from my current crop of aerobatic ARTF's.  So with xmas just around the corner its time for me to start the ball rolling in a project thats been festering away at the back of the mind for about 18 months now.

Firstly I've found being down at the patch is becoming a pretty monotonous affair on the diversity of aircraft front.  There seems to be a 50:50 split of lightweight aerobatics and 40-60 size sports models.  Theres very little scale examples out there, what there are seems to be the shiny ARTF veriety.

Secondly I've always wanted to build from a plan a plane tht would test both my building, finishing and flying skills to the limit.  Probably like most of us I want that councource model that people gather round.

So what are the options...

1) I guess my first love is scale aerobatic types, to be fair the ARTF market have this nailed.  Lightweight and agility are required for performance and I dont think I could match the market thats already there.

2) WWI aircraft...  I think the construction techniques and the finish required ie stitching, visible open structures etc. might be beyond my skills to do a good job.

3) WWII warbirds and other associated planes... Everyone has one, common as muck not my cup of tea anyhow.

4) Civilian aircraft.  Some superb examples out there and some interesting aircraft.  However generally designed to go from A to B in a straight line.  I recon I could make half decent job  of one but I think the flying would bore me to tears.

5) Reno/Goden era racing.  NOW WERE TALKING.  GeeBee too common though.  I had originally fell in love with the nemesis but after a 2 hour chat with slyms last night I was introduced to this... As soon as I saw her I was in love.  Sleek, fast, and just like god intended has two sets of wings!

Let me intorduce to you

Full Tilt Boogie
http://www.aero-sports.com/whplans/boogie.html

Looks to have nice paralell chord wings, is a manageable size at 61" x 62" and my 3W  50cc will drop straight in the front and more importantly it doesnt look beyond my modest abilities

Let the planning begin

Already found out Belair do a semi kit for £195.

First question do people rate semi kits?  I have a band saw pillar drill and sanding belt/disk and access to a very good copier so do I go for a self build kit, seeing as though theres no time restraint whatsoever?

CM

Hi, great choice of plane, my 2p says the pros and cons for a semi kit are as follows:-

Against, expensive, difficult/wasteful to make mods.
For, wood choice inevitably good, parts available so evenings not devoted to slicing out ribs, formers etc, you can do bits and bobs in an evening when enthusiasm flags thus continually keeping the end in sight, finally you have patterns to prepare for damage repair...

I'd go for the latter but it's not my quids that are being spent.

HTH.

Yep I think I pretty much came up with the pro's and cons that you have.

However thinking about time scales etc.  I recon I have another months worth of building to clear my current kits etc.  then I almost certainly have another house move coming up in march, so I dont think I would want to start the construction before then and have to move a dleicate half built airframe.  Also making a trip to Alan at Balsa cabin with a wood list I would think would cost about 1/3 of the kit? certainly half it.  So I recon I would have 4 or so months of dark evenings to try and produce a home brewed kit.

What I'm going to do is order the plan and see how easy it would be to identify the outlines of the parts etc.   I have never built from a plan so this might be the deciding factor.

CM

Gorgeous looking thing that Clive. Should be nice and wicked to fly too  Looking forward to this one with lots of interest!

Zim

 I have never built from a plan so this might be the deciding factor.

CM

Surely this is what dark nights are for. 

I've just finished tracing (none of this new-fangled scanning for me  ) my next build and it's very theraputic.

Ready to start transferring to brown tree wood next.

Go the DIY route Clive, there's nothing like the feeling when you've done it all yourself.

All IMHO of course

Paul

P.S. I've just read somewhere that you can transfer inkjet printed images to balsa by laying the print face down on the balsa and wiping carefully with lacquer thinners. It's a one-off process, but you can print as many copies as you need. Too high tech for me though. I'll stick to my 0.5mm pencil and my "Handy Bendy Thingy"

Luvvly plane there Clive.. I like that.

I have built from a plan and a kit and find the extra cutting to be a chore. Not needing much skill at all. And quite expensive in the bare wood as well. So it's not much more expensive when you compare your time invested that I do not find enjoyable.

Speak to that nice Mr Cole at Belair..

go for it clive...which ever way you choose,its a good way to keep busy   and plenty of reference material on here.... and plenty of assistance if you get stuck

Well done that man!

Looking forward to this bro, give me a yell if you want a nice scale dashboard drawn up, or any graphics drafted (for the price of a small beverage at the next show...  )

Just found some Robostruts for The Boogie - http://www.robart.com/RoboStruts/custom_made.aspx

Sym.

Ohohhh, he's going to do it...   interesting subject   

Good luck Clive - I'm looking forward to seeing this. I hope you enjoy it 

Talked myself into being totally serious about this now, so plan for my birthday, glass fibre mouldings for xmas and I'll supply the wood as and when needed.

Going for the entire everything made by Clive approach as well.

Looking forward to leaving the prop hanging crew drinking lager at the back tables of our monthly club nights and heading up front with my pint of mixed to talk about solatex, dope and when I wera lad 

Tomorrow I will order my profi 4000 and a suitable Black and Decker work mate to convert to a starting deck 

I'll also seek to add Mick Reeves to my MSN contact list (or at least as a pen pal) 

Thanks for all the encouragement... I expect there will be some very dark places to visit in the coming months, but hopefully some rewarding ones too.

Good news is I cant possibly lose any more hair!

CM

good choice clive, keep us posted please....

Talked myself into being totally serious about this now, so plan for my birthday, glass fibre mouldings for xmas and I'll supply the wood as and when needed.

Going for the entire everything made by Clive approach as well.

Looking forward to leaving the prop hanging crew drinking lager at the back tables of our monthly club nights and heading up front with my pint of mixed to talk about solatex, dope and when I wera lad 

Tomorrow I will order my profi 4000 and a suitable Black and Decker work mate to convert to a starting deck 

I'll also seek to add Mick Reeves to my MSN contact list (or at least as a pen pal) 

Thanks for all the encouragement... I expect there will be some very dark places to visit in the coming months, but hopefully some rewarding ones too.

Good news is I cant possibly lose any more hair!

CM

LOL Clive. Good decision mate 

You don't HAVE to turn into an old git to scratch-build  

Enjoy it.

OOOOhhhhhh,

That looks nice.

Charlie C

I couldnt wait till my birthday so I have just ordered the plans (I think.... not alot happened)

Also no mouldings available so could get v. interesting if I have to knock up my own :cig

CM

that's what you call a classic racer, big roundy engine and bright colour scheme.

Hi folks,

The building board can at last see the light at the end of the tunnel from my current crop of aerobatic ARTF's. 

CM

Hate to be one to give you the bad news, but theirs no such thing as the 'light at the end of the tunnel', its just someone with a torch bringing more misery.

 :sm99: :sm99: :sm99:

lozza

Nice choice of subject Clive. I've often scanned Mr Wendell's plan pages for inspiration. He does have some nice plans on there.

It's good to hear you've finally seen the light regarding the profi 4000. I knew you'd get there in the end.    Forget the Black and Decker Workmate though Clive, they're decidedly dodgy....... They remind me of those collapsing Blackpool seafront deckchairs.

I can recommend Belair's plan packs by the way. The quality is bob on, and It'll save you bl**dy hours of sweat.

Crackin subject ::cc.......always had a thing for any Reno type subject myself.

Good luck....especially with the flying as these things had a pretty fersome reputation as fullsize...............

Phil

for copying parts onto wood you can get them done in a power photo copier, then turn the paper over and iron on the remaining powder to the balsa.

It's good to hear you've finally seen the light regarding the profi 4000. I knew you'd get there in the end.    Forget the Black and Decker Workmate though Clive, they're decidedly dodgy....... They remind me of those collapsing Blackpool seafront deckchairs.

Don't you knock the workmate Brian. Black and Decker invented the electric drill in 1917 and have been at the forefront of portable tool development ever since. The workmate has more flexibility and facilities than any other (for example far eastern) portable workbenches.

OK Brian, I am the first to admit they are very lax on updating the software. But have you tried clamping, for example, a large piece of wood between the jaws of a Black and Decker workmate? Totally glitch-free performance. It may cost a little more than some of the competition, but they leave that competition in the (saw)dust.

Get a Black and Decker workmate Clive - you won't regret it 
(I hear they are working on a new version with 2.4 handles, but they are being very quiet about it)

Alex you nasty nasty Pole.

Zim

Nice choice of model Clive and something different to the rest out there 

I do wonder how on earth the pilot on the full size could see anything though 
regards the profi 4000 I thought this had been discontinued ? Are they still available then ?

Best of luck with the build Clive I will be watching with interest whichever way you go , scratch or laser cut parts .

Gonna be an eye opener at the field thats for sure 

Shane

Alex you nasty nasty Pole.

Zim

Nasty? It's supposed to be funny. Ain't no Pole neither. If Brian doesn't laugh, I'll delete it. 

I'll bet you Brian uses Bosche tools 

Zim

I'll get you Brian uses Bosche tools 

Zim

LOL, so do I in the main. 

  there is a place very close to Zim that sells the odd black and D workmate at less than half price !

 I have 2 with my building board spanning both !

but what a fab project  Clive ? ace !

a bipe fan Stig

Good luck....especially with the flying as these things had a pretty fersome reputation as fullsize...............

Phil

Yep looking forward to the flying already.  Mr Wendell had a 3 for 2 offer on tipstalls so I thought I'd buy a thrice!.  He tells me one should be ample though but its always good to keep a couple up your sleeve, you never know when you might need them!

CM

  .....................nice on

Just paid for the plan... cracking dollar at the moment  ::cc

So first of millions of questions

Whats the best way for calculating the amount of wood needed... Is there a good estimation that you chaps use or is it a case of sitting down with a tape measure and a note pad for a couple of evenings?

Secondly as for the actual cutting I was thinking of having the plans coppied (should only cost a pack or two of hobnobs for our engineering dept) then cutting out the shapes, spray mounting to wood, rough cutting on bandsaw then finishing on disk sander (outside curves) drum sander (inside curves).

Am I Along the right lines?

CM

Hi Clive

You certainly can do it the way you suggested, but if you can run to it I really do recommend Belair's set of cut parts. I can't overstress how much work these will save. The quality is truly superb too. You will of course need to buy stripwood, as Leon doesn't supply this with his parts sets.

It's really a case of sitting down and looking carefully at the plan Clive. After a while you'll begin to see how much of a certain size strip you'll actually need. Do get some sheets of thinnish clear plastic with which to cover the plan when you begin building. Of course you won't need this if you build over a copy of the plan Clive, but a word of warning. Some copying machines enlarge or shrink ever so slightly! Also, certain types of paper have verying degrees of elasticity, and this can also lead to minor errors creeping in. It might pay to measure some of the more critical components on the copied plan Clive, just to be sure this hasn't happened.

Welcome to the world of real aeromodelling Clive! 

Bosch tools Zim?

Yes, actually I do, but there's no particular reason for this. I'm told by a friend of mine (who's a self employed joiner) that, in his opinion, DeWalt tools are some of the better quality kit available just now.

And I noticed a Black and Decker Workmate in his van when he told me!

Bosch tools Zim?

Yes, actually I do, but there's no particular reason for this. I'm told by a friend of mine (who's a self employed joiner) that, in his opinion, DeWalt tools are some of the better quality kit available just now.

And I noticed a Black and Decker Workmate in his van when he told me!

Who owns DeWalt?   

I've no idea. Is is a bloke named Walter De by any chance Alex? 


P.S. Is there a prize for guessing? A Black and Decker workmate perhaps?

I've no idea. Is is a bloke named Walter De by any chance Alex? 


P.S. Is there a prize for guessing? A Black and Decker workmate perhaps?

De Walt is the "heavy duty professional tools" subsidiary of none other than...




Black and Decker 

Clive - sorry, I'll stop now. 

Clive you total pleb... How are you ever going to stay sober enough to find the plan let alone cut any parts.  Plan builts are for girls, ARTF are for plebs but I suppose your both 

CM

Secondly as for the actual cutting I was thinking of having the plans coppied (should only cost a pack or two of hobnobs for our engineering dept) then cutting out the shapes, spray mounting to wood, rough cutting on bandsaw then finishing on disk sander (outside curves) drum sander (inside curves).

Am I Along the right lines?

CM

YES.............it's exactly how I do it, have done for years, never had an issue. Cutting them yourself is so much more satisfying 

However............I;d stay away from getting the photocopied as the 'off the roll' copiers are well know to stretch plans (some are as bad a 1cm in every 100)..............best bet is to take it to a local copy centre (one who specialises in Architectural work as they are well used to handling BIG drawings) and ask them to digitally scan the plan, then reprint it......this method produces MUCH more accurate copies....bit more expensive, but much better results.

Phil

Clive,
I have almost finished the balsa work on a 6 ft span Rudder Bug, an American old timer. I can't believe how economical it is to buy balsa sheet and strip it to size yourself.  I certainly have change from £20 for the wooden structure.  I happen to work in Maldon, Essex,  home of the Balsa Cabin, best place in the UK for balsa. If you can get there in person you can choose exactly the balsa grade you want...and get most thicknesses in 48" length. Watch out, only open on Mon, Wed & Fri.
Good Luck with the build!
Sean.

Whats the best way for calculating the amount of wood needed...

That'll be about 2 bags mate   

Sorry! 

P.S. It's a nice looking model to go at 

The plans have just turned up

CM