Topic: Whisper ballast advice

Hi all,

Looking in the Whisper manual, I can put 160 grams in each wing (320 in total). I have seen other gliders with brass or lead 'slugs'. Would this be the same in the Whisper or would some round steel bar of appropriate diameter be the way forward?

Thanks
Lee

anything heavy will do the job Lee.  The heaviest is lead then brass then steel, of the "normal" materials that you can easily get your hands on. 

Any of the above will be fine.  320 grams is a pretty small amount of ballast for 2 meter model, but worth having.  Final ballat weight will depend on the material used of course. 

if you visit your local shops K&S stand you'll find one size fits the wing tubes perfectly.
fill this with lead and chop into slugs 

oh, and make sure your tubes are firmly attached, mine wernt

if you visit your local shops K&S stand you'll find one size fits the wing tubes perfectly.
fill this with lead and chop into slugs 

oh, and make sure your tubes are firmly attached, mine wernt

I guess you left out the word: "tube", or is that what "K&S" stands for?

K&S metal stand then 

Solid metal bars?  Be difficult to fill with lead..

yes, you fill a solid tube with lead 

Make sure the holes in the Root are as big as the tube inside or you ballast will rattel around

Mine took loads of filing to get them the same

I used some plumbers copper pipe filled with melted roof lead then wrapped insulation tape around to make them fit, not the most professional job but i used what i had at the time to make something that would work

Now
I would use a vernia caliper to measure the width then get a nice thin brass tube from model shop and fill with melted lead either with a saucepan on the hop when the wife's not looking or I have a Gas soldering iron that can be a torch
don't forget lead fumes are nasty

Thanks for the replies.

I think I'll get some brass rod of an appropriate size (wrapping in tape where necessary - thanks Allen) and fill the tubes to the max.

I noticed the other day whilst fettling that the c of g was a bit forward from the "updated" book value. It was around 80ish as oppopsed to 84 to 94mm. As a relative newbie, would it be an idea to remove some nose weight to get it in to the correct c of g range or just leave it as it is?

Thanks,
Lee

move it back.

Thanks for the replies.

I think I'll get some brass rod of an appropriate size (wrapping in tape where necessary - thanks Allen) and fill the tubes to the max.

I noticed the other day whilst fettling that the c of g was a bit forward from the "updated" book value. It was around 80ish as oppopsed to 84 to 94mm. As a relative newbie, would it be an idea to remove some nose weight to get it in to the correct c of g range or just leave it as it is?

Thanks,
Lee

I tend to tape a bit of lead to the tail till it flys how i like, them check where the C of G is, remove it the remove nose lead till its the same without the lead on the tail

This way you can take some roof lead and scissors to the slope and keep adjusting to  your preferred place  


has yours just got lead shot in the nose poured in though a hole in th top and epoxied shut? If so it can be tricky getting lead out

Thanks Guys.

The c of g ballast is glued into the front of the Whisper. There was some lead under the battery though too. That came out and its now spot on

You were right about the ballast tubes Allen - plenty of sanding required to get the holes in the wing root in line with the tubes!

Cheers,
Lee

Lee, a mate was flying a Whisper at a glide-in on Sunday.  Conditions were variable, but I have to say he was having a whale of a time with it (he is a good pilot ....)!

That's good to hear Woodstock

I had a great time at Bulbarrow with mine on Saturday but I am a little bemused about ballast...

On the advice above, I took out the extra ballast that was around the battery and the balance point was spot on to the book. The model was more responsive in the air (Bulbarrow) but wanted to "nose up" all the time. I ended up putting in LOADS of forward elevator until the model flew level - but when I did, the model didn't feel as "nice" to fly (this may have been my nerves). On the ground, the ruddervators were quite a few mm down with the stick in the centre (getting on for 5mm)

Do I add some more ballast and have the C of G slightly forward??

Advice please

Cheers,
Lee

Are you confused about ballast and nose weight?
Ballast is just adding weight to the airframe and should have no effect on the C.g. which should always stay at the appropriate point to suit your model/your flying style.

Thanks for that... Nose weight confusion I would say.

Do I add more nose weight to move the C of G?

Thanks
Lee

Lee,

Adding weight to the nose will indeed bring the CG forward.

However (from what I have gleaned), the problem with the whisper is that it is built in such a way that you are always in effect flying with up elevator.  The model was designed to be gentle and more optimised for thermally flying.   Before the "great crash" there was a long thread on the subject.  It sounds like you are going down the same road as that guy did with the CG and tail.  I hope it works out for you. 



Tom

Would that be Allen by any chance?

Does anyone know the outcome? Was a solution (or even a compromise) found?

Cheers
lee

yep it was me
So when it come to incidence cofg and general whisper flight I'm your man 
took me months to get it flying right as a sloper then i broke it with a stupid novice mistake in some sink
but it was easy repair and i sold it and got the AJ

the out come was :

I shifted the C of G even further back which like you improved the feel but caused nose up

but it is not incidence nore C of G that causes the nose to go up but is infact the wing section

Its like when you add camber to a normal sloper she will balloon a little and will require a little down elevator to compensate

I solved the problem by flying with a little reflex (flaps and ailerons up a couple of mill) and using ballast in everthing over a 10 mph

Lee
my advice would be to set up a coupled flap and aileron on a slider, if your TX can do it

then add reflex till you can remove elevator trim then land measure and set to a switch

Thanks for that Allen. At least I don't have to go through the same learning curve - Cheers for the advice.
No sliders on the DX7 (more and more does it appear that I am needing to save up for a better radio  ) but I'll have a fettle and see if I can hit that compromise of response and C of G.
Thanks,
Lee

Do you have a three possion switch?

you could set it to normal 2mm reflex and 4mm reflex

It's worth doing, trust me i tryed everthing from shifting the C of G to bending the slab pins

you need to add reflex, don't matter how you do it, but do it!! 

Yep - I can use the flight mode switch. Fettling time coming up

Cheers
Lee

Yep I agree, the whisper has much more to offer than a fast ship, its slower speed and higher lift configuration make it a superb sport model, but only on the right hill.  I found with mine that if you flew it in any wind on a shallow slope where the wind sort of blew up and the model had to penetrate then it was pretty frustrating, but on a steep hill such as curbar, sea cliffs or the Bwlch where the wind is pure lift from beneith it was a really superb model and just flew around on a cusion of air like a hover craft.

The last flight i had with mine before i sold it on was at curbar in a 50mph SW and it was absolutely ballistic, one of the slope flights that really stick out in my mind, and that was without any ballast.  I must get round to putting the vid on youtube to show all the per doubters out there what one is capable of.

On the other hand, 20mph at places like edge top and it was gash, bored the @rse off me because it wouldnt go anywhere.

Like mike says, enjoy for what it is, not what it isnt 

One of biggest sloping mistakes was selling the whisper, thinking the grass was greener on the 3m f3f bing side of the fence 

CM

Thanks for that.
The video sounds cool - please post it

Next time I'm out, I'll try it as it is with the c of g per the book and fly nice and gently and see where I trim the elevators to and take it from there.
As for ballast, I have a brass tube and some lead so I'll have a play there too.

It'll be interesting for me to experiment - I'm absorbing all this stuff like a sponge at the mo

Thanks,
Lee

My cg was behind the recomended in the manual and i did have quite a bit of down trim dialled in.  Having trim doesnt bother me though, i worry more about how the plane performs.

CM

not that well under most normal conditions judging by your previous post!

not that well under most normal conditions judging by your previous post!

meaning?

CM

meaning you don't often have a great hill where the air goes straight up.  Well I guess you do if you are lucky to live near the Bwlch or something.  A good glider can fly well in a variety of conditions.  20mph on an average hill should let you go fast and/or do aeros with a good mouldie.   You said "only on the right hill".  hence my comment.

If a model flies great in perfect conditions it isn't really a testing examination of it's credentials. Even zagis fly well in great air.  Not that I am comparing the 'per to a zagi, but the sign of a really good model is how it handles less than optimal conditions.  Most soaring isn't done in "great" air. 

Yeah fair enough but this aint a great glider thread, leebert has a whisper and wants to know how to get the best out of it, so i was trying to offer advice on how i got the best out of mine.

CM

And I appreciate the advice.

It is my intention to have a fleet that covers all eventualities...

Widthing: To try on a new slope or combat fun;
Whisper: Floating around on marginal days and themalling;
Aldij (when it's fixed): Whizzing about the sky and generally being a bit of a hooligan

Cheers
Lee

you can't argue with that Lee.

Whisper: Floating around on marginal days and themalling

having flown my old one fully loaded in 60mph winter blows i can seriously recommend it.
goes like stink and screams like a banshee

having flown my old one fully loaded in 60mph winter blows i can seriously recommend it.
goes like stink and screams like a banshee

I have to admit finding the noise it makes on full aileron is very addictive
Can't wait to give it go with ballast - at least until Aldij is fixed (which isn't that far off, I just have put some time aside for doing the silicone hinges).

so addictive i got very close to taking the wipers off my luna, was seriously disappointed when i got it, nice to fly, fast, but lacked the noise.
still the MB screams so all is good

I saw a Whisper fly for the first time a couple of weekends back. That noise is great.

the sound of drag.

doesn't matter unless you want every .01 in a f3f meet

We all love a good bit of noise, but it's only impressive if it's generated from the air being torn apart by a moulded missile.  Poor/non-existent wipers are another matter. 

Ah the Whisper screech... a sure sign that maxage is in progress 

CM