Topic: South East Flyers

Quite a good article here about the Twinstar:

http://www.multiplexusa.com/downloads/M264210%20-%20RR-TwinStar_FlyRC.pdf

The guy actually built two wings, one brushed and one brushless, to compare them.  The brushless is fine on the Twinstar, but of course the brushless gives both more power and longer flight times because it's not wasting 70% of the battery.

(Personally I've always used brushless in everything, even when it's overkill, just because with brushed motors I can't help looking at a battery that is say 3 inches long and thinking that around 2 inches is totally wasted!  At least with brushless motors most of the battery is doing what I actually want it to do, ie provide thrust not heat.)

(By the way, have you noticed that brushed motors now often cost more than brushless?  Eg a brushed 400 is around £7-£8 while the brushless equivalent is £4-£5.  Weird!)

...more power and longer flight times because it's not wasting 70% of the battery.

(Personally I've always used brushless in everything, even when it's overkill, just because with brushed motors I can't help looking at a battery that is say 3 inches long and thinking that around 2 inches is totally wasted!  At least with brushless motors most of the battery is doing what I actually want it to do, ie provide thrust not heat.)...

Perhaps you need to re-check your facts there GP, I think you may have been misled.  I don't know of any brushed motors commonly used in electric flight in the last fifteen years, that were less than 70% efficient. Certainly have not heard of anything as poor as 33% efficient being used in electric comps!

Admittedly brushless motors are more efficient than their brushed counterparts, but the differences are not as big as you are saying.

In a 2.2m - 2.5m model the weight penalty of using a brushed motor and say a 2200mAh 3S1P as opposed to a brushless motor and say a 2000mAh 3S1P won't make a helluvalot of difference to the efficiency of the glider in most UK conditions (and a bit of weight is often a positive advantage when it comes to getting back to the field, when you've flown with a thermal for any length of time), in my opinion.

Best regards

Jef

Hi Graham,  if it was bought before 2005 it is likely to be a Mk 1 (made of EPS), Mk2 were after 2005 and made of elapor.  Both come with brushed motors, brushless is an optional upgrade. or they come with nothing just a kit with decals and hardware.

Would you mind sending over some pictures Graham, I'll drop you a PM with my email address in if that helps. 

Hi OK the plane i purchase it 2011 so V2 pm me your email and ill photo it tommorrow and send them on to you ,
Cheers Graham

Jason pics sent to your email .

Regards Graham

Hey Jef, thanks for the update on brushed motors.  I had in mind that brushed motors were around 30% efficient and brushless around 80%, don't know where I got that from. 

Looking online it seems brushless are around twice as efficient at low loads, but hardly any more efficient at high loads.  RC Car users have tested this quite carefully and only get 20-30% longer run times with brushless motors.  So brushed motors are not as bad as I thought!

I tell you what though, I don't miss the days of nickel cells driving brushed motors.  The first plane I ever got used a heavy nickel battery pack driving a brushed motor.  As soon as I maidened it I thought "you have got to be joking".  It was so overweight and gutless it really wasn't a viable flying device at all.  So I switched to newfangled lipos and brushless, and the difference blew my mind.

Yes I agree that NiCad technology is out-dated for most gliding use.
LiPos, with their light weight and low internal resistance, make all the difference.
Even with a lowly 8.4V Speed 600 in the nose, designed for 9.6V and 25A, when connected to a 3S1P will give amazing performance while drawing about 50A.
I have been using such a set up for a couple of seasons, and am expecting the 27A speed controller to give up soon. But I guess the 20 second motor run which has replaced the 60 second motor runs of old, may be being too kind to it!

However, when the speed controller or motor finally burst, I shall of course be fitting a brushless set up! 

Jef

I still use NiCad in my Ellipse, a good quality Overlander Sanyo 5 cell pack. It needs the weight and I think the general concensus is that it is superior to Nimh, but just 'outlawed' thesedays !

I'm with you on Sanyo NiCads Deryck. They're bomb-proof!
I've got a 2000 Rx pack in my 4 metre Multiplex Milan.
Many thanks to Pete for donating to me his unwanted red Sanyos. 

Eric

I think the bigger problem now-a-days is getting hold of a brushed speed controller isnt as easy as a brushless one.

Graham, droped you an email responce 

Maybe for unpowered gliders Nicads are the best solution of all.  We need the nose weight anyway, and we just need totally reliable low current.  I see Sanyo Nicads are still available in all sizes from batterystore.com.  However minimum order is £25 and international postage from US might not be cheap.

www.overlander.co.uk/batteries-chargers.html

click on the NiCd filter,  still some available. I'm not sure if they will still make custom NiCd packs up too.

I am pretty sure you can still get NiCad packs from Maplins, they are Sub-C cells I think, and look like they are intended for car use. As I have just been signed off work until Monday (pulled hamstring) I will see if I can find out any more info from Maplins.

Edit - that was easy! They have two types of tagged sub-c cells, VN45Y 4/5C at £3.19 each and JF99H at £5.79 each.

Could not see any reference to r/c car NiCd packs, but I am sure I have recently seen them in store (Lakeside).

Jef

I think the bigger problem now-a-days is getting hold of a brushed speed controller isnt as easy as a brushless one.

Graham, droped you an email responce 

hi jason my phone is in an email  sent to you.
Regards Graham

Graham,  good to catch up with you tonight, twinstar ready for a maiden tomorrow some time

Do you recall what you had the COG at and what size batter were you running it on?  I have both 3 and 2 cell, it seems quite powerful on a 3s

That was quick!  I bet you'll enjoy that.  I expect you plan to enter F5J comps with it?  Maybe even F3K, that would be quite a sight...

I've always quite fancied a Twinstar, bit of a MPX foamy classic. I haven't flown a power model in yonks, would be quite an experience to use a throttle after such a long time !

MPX Twinstar converts to a water plane very nicely too, one of the Essex Water Babies regularly flies one at Stubbers (Coy's Lake).

He has a Go Pro (I think) video camera on it and recently recorded a very near air miss. Can get you some details if you are interested Jason.

Jef

Edit - and here's the video... look out for the air miss at about 2:22

Twinstar at stubbers lake

Hey Jason, have you seen the new Nikon D800?  You know you need one...

I find these latest cameras intriguing because they actually capture "hyperreality".  The detail is so high it's beyond human perception.  For instance there is a Nikon example photo of the interior of a huge library.  (The file size is far too big to show here).  You see thousands of books far away on the distant wall.  You can zoom in on the pic, and zoom in and in and in, right up to the books and see each book sharply.  It's positively freaky, beyond what the human eye could ever do - I guess the cells in the human eye are not nearly as highly packed as the pixels on these latest camera sensors.   Anyway, it's off topic but I just think it's intriguing.  Where will it end - will cameras also end up being microscopes? - ie you take a photo of a dog a hundred yards away, and then zoom in on the photo to see a flea on a hair on the dog? 

Not RC but what a cool and relaxing way to get around

Dirigeables modernes - Pilote J-P David

Talking of Nikon cameras Jason, where did you get your good spare batteries for the D90 from?
Cheers,
Lee

Not RC but what a cool and relaxing way to get around

Dirigeables modernes - Pilote J-P David


Talking of Nikon cameras Jason, where did you get your good spare batteries for the D90 from?
Cheers,
Lee

Ebay, Phottix Titon Battery for Nikon EN-EL3e D80/D90/D300/D700 IIRC, the seller is no longer listed but there are a couple on ebay

Not looked at the new one Gary - wouldnt want to tempt myself in to it

You can get RC blimps so it's almost rc related.  I nearly bought an RC fish recently for my kids.  It's basically a rc blimp, but made to look like a "nemo" clownfish, and the propulsion is a wagging tail, just like a fish swimming in water.  It looks pretty amazing seeing this fish swimming through the air.  But it's indoor only, and it's huge, my house is too small. 

Hi Jason yes good to meet up , as to c of g cant remember but i just weighed the battery's 333grams and as far up front as is possible, hope it helps , its a Great plane enjoy.
Regards Graham

I've gone and done a bit of a daft thing.  Well, my wife says it's daft.  I've bought an electric golf trolley to make a glider carrier.  There are two possible outcomes here:

(1) It will be extremely cushy, this luxury glider transporter walking itself up the hills, me strolling effortlessly along sipping a latte.

(2) It will be extremely disastrous, unable to climb hills, slipping backwards, me wrestling with it until it tips over and dumps precious gliders onto the ground.

Which will it be?  Give your vote! 

how big are the wheels Gary ?

Normal golf size, about 12 inches.  So I think they will handle a normal walk on Long Man or Bopeep etc, but I don't think they'll handle rougher ground.  There is no real suspension though.  I wonder if the LGRA guys added suspension because they found their planes were getting shaken around too much?

I think it will be fine Gary as long as you keep it will away from uneven ground I can see it climbing to the res on the longman as long as you keep off the track but I doubt it will climb on the track

Be great to watch though

I just bought a Glider transport system too
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Black-Canyon-Snowboard-Bag-Size/dp/B001OB9PEQ
I like the fact it has the arm straps too
I 'll let you know how well it works when it arrives 

That's a good idea with those arm straps - like a very tall backpack.  If the golf cart turns out to be more trouble than its worth I think I'll copy you.

Browsing ebay and found this
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ASW-17-SEMI-SCALE-RADIO-CONTROL-GLIDER-HUGE-16FT-WING-SPAN-95-READY-FLY-/170778048947?pt=UK_ToysGames_RadioControlled_JN&hash=item27c32a39b3#ht_2627wt_1398

Looks pretty good, but may need some fettling if you look at the radio install.

Jon

And this
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vintage-Veron-Impala-Glider-Kit-/270905697110?pt=UK_ToysGames_RadioControlled_JN&hash=item3f133ce356#ht_500wt_1413

They keep coming
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/RC-Glider-Sailplane-/150752331244?pt=UK_ToysGames_RadioControlled_JN&hash=item23198a05ec#ht_734wt_1398

Yet more
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Radio-Controlled-Glider-Algebra-/290667135321?pt=UK_ToysGames_RadioControlled_JN&hash=item43ad1c8159#ht_500wt_1413

Make it stop, arrrrrrh
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Viking-ASW-20-Large-Radio-Control-Sailplane-Project-/200709579843?pt=UK_ToysGames_RadioControlled_JN&hash=item2ebb392443#ht_1143wt_1165

Too late made a mess.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/WiK-SALTO-Large-Radio-Control-Sailplane-Slope-Soarer-/200709577086?pt=UK_ToysGames_RadioControlled_JN&hash=item2ebb39197e#ht_890wt_1165

Last one promise
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/veron-impala-vintage-model-kit-/180812955239?pt=UK_ToysGames_RadioControlled_JN&hash=item2a194abe67#ht_500wt_1413

Sorry guys, I saw them all and thought that I would share with you all.
Some nice stuff there, I'm bidding on one

Soon as we have a cold snap everyone sells off their models!

There are some nice bits of kits I found there.
The PT ASW looks tidy

Ebay has some NiCd tagged Sub-C cells too, at about a fiver for a pack of 4, inc p&p.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/4-SubC-Sub-C-2500mAh-Ni-CD-Rechargeable-Battery-Tab-YE-/180793277554 pt=UK_ConsumerElectronics_Batteries_SM&hash=item2a181e7c72#ht_1972wt_952

Well went flying today at warden point, it was great loads of lift,
All so i got myself a Funjet ultra (thanks to Jason)    LOL ,but i didnot put a motor in , just pure glider,WOW Fast i say, looks good in the sky too, so if anywon wants a good fast glider that's the one to have.

Cheers all Graham