Topic: 1/3 Scale Sopwith Triplane build thread

Thanks Simon.

A bit more done today (but not in the wing department).

Tried a bit of whittling as Shaun suggested using an off-cut of Mahoganey that was left over when we had some new windows installed - in 1987!   I knew it would come in useful sometime

The windmill is actually easier than a propeller as the blades are essentially flat.   It's not too bad for a first go but the hub lacks some of the finess of the real thing - never mind it should pass the 20 foot test.   I have also made the top mounting bracket.  Here it is, albeit on the wrong strut for the time being (I haven't sanded the starboard strut to the correct section yet).   Just got to work out how to make half a dozen more now to keep the DP's happy



Alan

Very nice mate, it's bits like this that make the model stand out from the crowd  .








That and the fact there are some wings missing   

That and the fact there are some wings missing   

And only half the fus

LOl I can see it now " That Alan, he really didn't grasp the 1/3 bit did he" 

LOl I can see it now " That Alan, he really didn't grasp the 1/3 bit did he" 

Oh no! Have I got it wrong    I wondered how 1/3 of an aeroplane would fly.   That's why I went for a triplane - at least you end up with a complete wing!

As always your work is outstanding Alan, do you have a deadline for completion?

As always your work is outstanding Alan, do you have a deadline for completion?

Thanks Shaun, but it's not as good as some other's round these parts!

The only real one is "before I expire" but I would like to have it flying next year.  I'm hoping that when the next mad fit of activity comes along I can polish off the wings and get stuck into the fus.  First real job though is to find the building board under the debris so I can build the last wing panel. See how quickly your SE5A is coming on!  

Thanks Shaun, but it's not as good as some other's round these parts!

The only real one is "before I expire" but I would like to have it flying next year.  I'm hoping that when the next mad fit of activity comes along I can polish off the wings and get stuck into the fus.  First real job though is to find the building board under the debris so I can build the last wing panel. See how quickly your SE5A is coming on!  

Dear Mr Cam
If you would kindly bring the bar back down to my level I will make as start on my Tripe again.. :banghead:n Seriously Alan that little pump is well impressive, there is no way I can put something like that together ! I can not wait to see what your cockpit interior turns out like
Have you done any more?? can we have some more piccys  please 

V nice al but one thing mate...............where,s mine.

  chris

I cannot see any  of the pictures from the first two pages of the thread, it is something to do with my browser settings?

I cannot see any  of the pictures from the first two pages of the thread, it is something to do with my browser settings?

Same here, there must be something wrong with the server that stores the pics

Have you done any more?? can we have some more piccys   please  

No not yet, but I can almost see the building board in the garage so there's a chance the sixth wing panel might get done soon.  

Mind you, I've been eyeing up some aluminium tube after seeing the Prof's offering.     I think I'm going to go with the aluminium welding / soldering stuff I got from Cosford though.  It would be rude not to use it.

V nice al but one thing mate...............where,s mine.

All in good time CJ, all in good time.   I'm investigating the possibility of resin casting at the moment and if that doesn't work one of my mates is building a CNC lathe.  I think I might have its first job!

Same here, there must be something wrong with the server that stores the pics

Sorry chaps, they seem to have disappeared in the great album shakeup.   Strange that most but not all of my photographs disappeared (no albums now )  Gerry was goingto try and find the Triplane ones but obviously hasn't had any luck.    I will try and upload them again sometime to restore the thread.

Alan

 I will try and upload them again sometime to restore the thread.

OK, I've made a start but I will have to do it in installments

Alan

Alan
[/quote]
All in good time CJ, all in good time.   I'm investigating the possibility of resin casting at the moment and if that doesn't work one of my mates is building a CNC lathe.  I think I might have its first job!

Mmmmm
Mr Cam I think I should be first in line, after all these three winged fancies are few and far between and of course if mine happened to be a little ,"shall we say " less well presented than the Cam version , it might detract from the overall ambiance and atmosphere which you may, or, may not be seeking to create. I would therefore suggest, and this is only a suggestion, that it might be of interrest, enjoyable, charitable, generous, etc, to make at least two of everything  for my part I see no economical reasons as to why I might not be in agreement in perhaps, possibly,suggest, agree,provide, some form of sponsorship for this project
Now isn't that an eloquently put grovell ?

OK, I think that's all the photographs restored now (how tedious was that )

Here are a few more photographs showing the fuselage mock-up that I tarted up for Leon's stand at Cosford earlier in the year.



Alan

I've had a request from a DP'r (let's call him Mr. X for the time being just to generate a sense of mystery) for the drawings for my Rotherham pump as he fancies having a go at making one himself.  

I didn't actually have anything decent so I've spent this rather wet Saturday measuring and drawing.      The drawings might be of interest for anyone who can't wait to see what I may be able to offer in the ready made pump department at some point in the future.   Source data was from the many sketches and photographs I have but unfortunately I haven't been able to actually measure one up for myself so I can't guarantee the accuracy I'm afraid.



Of course, what I should have been doing was building the Tripe!  
 
Alan

I've been amusing myself with some ali tube and the Alutight soldering stuff I got from Cosford.  

After quite a lot of sawing, filing, bending, soldering and general fettling I seem to have a fin.   The intention was to make the tailplane incidence adjuster (part of which is formed by the inner vertical components) functional.    However, it would require sleeving the slider rod or the bearing tubes with some other material (probably steel) as aluminium bearing on aluminium is not a good idea.   It seems like a lot of effort to end up with a less secure tailplane so I probably won't bother select that design option.



It currently weighs 68g and just needs the rudder hinge points and the rigging attachment points.   I hope it's not too heavy as I can't afford a 9 cylinder rotary functional nose weight and I'd hate to have to put to large lump of church roof up the front.  

Alan

Please tell more about the aluminium solder is it the same as the techoweld stuff that was available a few years ago ?

Please tell more about the aluminium solder is it the same as the techoweld stuff that was available a few years ago ?

I think it's similar but I've not used Technoweld so I can't be certain.

The basic principle is to heat the material and the Alutight up until the Alutight is molten at which point you scrape the material with a sharp point (round needle file ground to a point in my case) through the pool of Alutight.  Fundamental principle is that as you scrape, the Alutight bonds to the material as there is no oxidisation on the newly cleaned surface (if that makes sense?).   In some situations you can just hold the work pieces together, melt the Alutight, scrape and the job is done.   In the case of the fin what I did was to "tin" (or should that be "Ali" ) the two surfaces before bringing them together, re-heating and providing more Alutitght as necessary.   Best to try and keep the amount of Alutight used to the bare minimum as a) it is expensive and b) it is actually quite hard and therefore awkward to clean up.   In the end, it was almost like soldering tinned brass together but without any flux!    I like it

It was bought from a Swedish chap at Cosford.  He said he would be doing more UK shows next year.  I can't remember if he said he does mail order but you can ask him if you wish.  His Email address is alutighteurope@hotmail.com 

HTH

Alan

That looks ace Alan Is it stong then?

What do you reckon to building a fuselage using it? I think for the longerons you might have to leave the ends open and slide in some dowel or something, what do you think?

Ian.

What do you reckon to building a fuselage using it? I think for the longerons you might have to leave the ends open and slide in some dowel or something, what do you think?

Seems pretty tough - weakest bit is the tube itself I think, particularly where it's drilled or cut of course!  I did wonder about a dowel up the fin post mainly to resist accidental "hanger bending" but I don't think I will bother.   

As to a fuselage: Well it might get a bit tedious tinning all those joints but it's probably possible.   I haven't cracked ultra thin tinning yet and unfortunately any lumps and bumps rather spoil the alignment.   Oh yes, make sure you don't buy anodised rod/tube.  The small diameter tube I used for the outline was and it was a right pain cleaning it off.  I hadn't realized just how hard anodising is (but then, on reflection, it's probably not called "hard anodising" for nothing  )

Anyway, it would be an interesting exercise.  What you going to build then Ian?

Alan

Seems pretty tough - weakest bit is the tube itself I think, particularly where it's drilled or cut of course!  I did wonder about a dowel up the fin post mainly to resist accidental "hanger bending" but I don't think I will bother.   



Anyway, it would be an interesting exercise.  What you going to build then Ian?

Alan

I'd definately suggest a dowel up the tube. My Camel has a brass tube stern post and rudder l/e and I put a dowel up the stern post and although it was probably strong enough without, it takes the worry out of wheeling it about by th fin!!

I always fancied an L4 Cub or a Fokker E.III with a tubular fuselage

Ian.

...... it takes the worry out of wheeling it about by th fin!!

Good point, hadn't thought of that!

Yes same stuff, I bought what was called technoweld about 15 years ago at the PFA rally, I have had mixed results using it, very important it is very clean before hand and I was given a stainless steel wire brush in my kit for that purpose also a stainless steel abrader for stirring up the molten alum which makes it stick .

Snag is you have to heat the alum near its melting point and if you are joining two different gauges of alum then one may heat before the other and melt 

Don't try to weld up a engine silencer, or you will spend more time trying to fill up holes 

Yes same stuff, I bought what was called technoweld about 15 years ago at the PFA rally, I have had mixed results using it, very important it is very clean before hand
Don't try to weld up a engine silencer, or you will spend more time trying to fill up holes 

There speaks the voice of experience I reckon

There speaks the voice of experience I reckon

My weekend/winter/blowing a gale hack is a prangster (dont laugh) great model for having fun with when you won't fly anything else.  
Now when you have four or five of them at the one time trying to knock over skittles on the runway or see who can land near the mark INVERTED competitions they get the odd bang.
Now the beauty of the prangster is they can take a big bang, but I went through a spell of braking off silencers from various 40 and 46 size engines. Dont know why but it only happened to me, So after my bucket of spares ran out, I got out my technoweld and tried a fix, some times it worked other times I just had a puddle of molten alum on the floor  You have been warned  

A bit more cutting, filing, soldering, filing, more filing ........... Oh yes and not forgetting, removing the anodising 

The rudder has got a folded sheet rib and a tubular strut to be added still plus the hinges.



See I am making progress - another 20 years should see it done!

Alan

  It's gonna be quite something when it's done PC 






Megan Ockers (Mrs)

A little more work done on the rudder ....

There is one tubular rib leading up from the rather substantial  horn and one inverted channel section rib further up.



Alan

That's lovely Alan!

That's lovely Alan!

Thanks Jamie.  It will be better when it's covered and flying though

I've been experimenting with possible hinging methods for the rudder.

Plan A - was to make some scale like ali hinges by machining / hand fitting as appropriate.   Trouble is I haven't really got the necessary wherewithal to make them and the thought of accurately aligning and soldering the little blighters on if I had, was just too much.

Plan B - drill holes and use standard Robart hinges.   Trouble with that option is that you remove a lot of the strength from the tube as the necessary holes are quite large.  However, a stroke of luck came when I found some carbon tube that is a beautiful fit in the fin and rudder trailing and leading edge tubes.  So revised Plan B is to use the carbon tube as reinforcement for the ali tube and use the Robarts.   I have made a test piece (didn't want to try it on the real thing only to find that it made it too weak ) and tried a hinge for size.   Seems strong enough and when the hinge is epoxied into the carbon / ali tube I think it will be fine.  I will need to get a second opinion from Ken Bones (my inspector) but in the meantime have you any thoughts?

The carbon tube has been plugged with Blutack just so that you can pick it out in the rather poor photo.



Alan

Looking very good Alan, I've just got back from the north east with some nice goodies from Phil at Fighter Aces and the rest of the wood required from Stuart from Solutions.  So some more building to be done.

There still looks like plenty of meat left Alan. The fin rear bracing wires,  are they at the top hinge position or above? If so I'd say it'll be fine. If the top hinge is above the fin bracing wire there might be a risk of the fin post breaking in the event of a nose over. Have you tried to break the test piece?

Ian.

The fin rear bracing wires,  are they at the top hinge position or above? If so I'd say it'll be fine. If the top hinge is above the fin bracing wire there might be a risk of the fin post breaking in the event of a nose over.

Effectively just below, they actually mount on the tailplane incidence slider see the snippet of Joe's drawing.

Have you tried to break the test piece?

Sort of! It handled some bending across the hole when one end was mounted in the pillar drill chuck and load applied to the other end.  I dare say that I could have bent/broken it if I'd really tried.

Just have to try not nosing it over - mind you that would be a challenge with a Tripe anyway I suppose

Alan

I have heard of "stuart from solutions" a few times on threads, can you post email/website details

I have heard of "stuart from solutions" a few times on threads, can you post email/website details

From a post on the LMA Forum .......

"My new contact details are either by phone, 07832145793 or e.mail, askus@onebyone.co.uk"

Alan

Thanks

Captain Beaky was wondering how the fuselage covering is done on the fullsize around the lower wing as there appears to be no land to attach the covering to on the model.  I've been looking at the fullsize drawings and what photographs I have trying to work out how it is done.  

My thoughts so far are that the fuselage side cheeks are covered leaving the centre section wing spars protruding.  The 2" wide root rib (actually a thin rib and a wide cap strip) is then positioned over the protruding spar stubs and either distorts the covering slightly or  the cap strip is trimmed to fit up to the covering.  In the case of the fullsize of course the wide root rib is not structural in terms of providing the wing panel attachment - it just provides an aerodynamic, aerofoil fairing between the fus and the wing panel which of course is different to the typical model.   The wing attaches to the centre section spars using interlocking metal brackets retained by a chordwise long pin.   I've included a photograph of the Pup arrangement which is similar although not identical.

   

Anyway, looks like another trip to OW is in the offing   

Alan

Well, I've at last got a bit of enthusiasm back and I've spent a couple of evenings doing one of those jobs I really hate - hinging.

Having checked that Robart hinges would be OK in the Ali tube sometime back, I finally got on with drilling the holes in the fin and rudder.   I like to do such jobs with the aid of machinery to help with the accuracy but unfortunately I've got nothing that would help in this case.   So the alternative is to do it slowly by drilling pilot holes and then opening out step by step checking as you go.  That way if anything is going off course you've got a chance to rescue the situation with a round needle file and tease the hole back into the right position.     Once the holes were the right size the corners were opened out with a square needle file to allow the hinges to sit in the right position. 

The fin post has had a full length carbon tube epoxied in to give it a bit of strength back.   Just a few little odds and ends to finish off now and then I can say one bit of the build is complete.   Still not going to be ready for Scampton



Went to see Bonzey, my Over 20kg scheme inspector,  this afternoon to make sure he was happy with the slightly unusual construction.    Everything seems to be in order if a little slow in construction

Regards

Alan