Topic: 1/3 scale Sopwith Camel

As I take a closer look on your last photo it looks like the plywood covering on the top of the fuse is black (like the fin) instead of a more reddish copal varnish?
Also it looks to me the background between the white stripes is PC10 instead of black?

Ralf

Nice landing Ralf   

As I take a closer look on your last photo it looks like the plywood covering on the top of the fuse is black (like the fin) instead of a more reddish copal varnish?
Also it looks to me the background between the white stripes is PC10 instead of black?

Ralf

Looking at the picture of the full-size B6313, I would agree that the white stripes are painted against PC10. Earlier in the career of B6313 it had a shorter section of genuinely black/white stripes but had probably been recovered again in between. To me the fin has exactly the same shade as the fuselage side, doesn't appear to be black.

Regarding the plywood areas which were not fabric covered it was common practice to paint these, and in some cases sheet metal areas, with an oil-based paint of similar shade to PC10. This was known as POV - Pigmented Oil Varnish as distinct from PC10's Pigmented Cellulose. Although the colour was a close match the surface finish was completely different leading to an apparent change of colour at the join between fabric and other surfaces. It looks a distinct possibility that this was the case here.

Ralf, your machine looks like it flies great, sounds ace too

On the book pics I have, the underside of the fuselage looks to be just fabric, with no stripes. You can just see the overlapping PC10 edge down the bottom side of the longeron.

At one stage in its career, B6313 did have black (PC10??) cowlings and ply sheeting. When it was revamped and the cowls taken back to bare metal, how unlikely is it that they got the ply back to wood to refinish? Also, its flying career was just a year long, from 24 September 1917 to late September 1918, how many times can a busy airframe be recovered in this short time. Seems very likely that this refinishing coulds have taken place over everything before it?

Ian.

Ralf, your machine looks like it flies great, sounds ace too

Thanks, and also Mudflap  , it sure is a lovely flyer
The thin airfoil section makes it also (sometimes TOO  ) fast indeed


how unlikely is it that they got the ply back to wood to refinish?

There you have your own answer  

I.M.H.O. and with the good explanation of Martin I should say:
fuse, top decking/cheeks and fin PC10
Background stripes on fuse also PC10
Underside fuse linen, no stripes

Well it's up to you then  
Anxious to know what your colour decision will be  

Ralf

There you have your own answer  

I.M.H.O. and with the good explanation of Martin I should say:
fuse, top decking/cheeks and fin PC10
Background stripes on fuse also PC10
Underside fuse linen, no stripes

Well it's up to you then  
Anxious to know what your colour decision will be  

Ralf

I have gone with black between the white stripes for a couple of reasons. Firstly, midway through its flying career, B6313 definately has black and white stripes, I have a good photo that clearly shows this Later, Barker had these stripes extended for and aft. Adding a dark and light forward to the roundel and two light, two dark rearwards towards the tailplane. The stripes in their original state (just two light hoops, the unit markings for 139 Sqn) in Barkers first modified state of 4 light hoops, then the final modified state of 7 light hoops, all end with a light hoop at the ends, presumably because the black hoops dont stand out too well against PC10. Some side profiles show an extra black hoop at the rear, but the photos don't show it and graphic artist in me says the 'end on a white' is right  Seen in the pics you can clearly see a difference in the stripe width. The first mods were consistant, but the late are somewhat 'Friday afternoon' in appearance, with the frontmost white strip much thinner to clear the roundel, and the rear ones decidedly thicker.

I have gone for a PC10 fin for now, but may yet overpaint in black since it is mentioned in a written description of the scheme. It had a new fin in March 1918 but there still is no saying what finish it was in.

With regards the plywood skins, I am going to modify some PC10 slightly, to give a more glossy POV10 finish since it seems very unlikely that the Black finish would be removed to get back to a varnished finish.

Ian.

When you gonna put a pilot in it ian ?? Mickey

When you gonna put a pilot in it ian ?? Mickey

......... and the dummy rotary, cockpit, blah....blahhh...... blahhhhhhh........


It'll get there, just has to be fit in between the more important things, like my hoose and the bill paying things.

I blame the pilot thing on Syms, don't we Mudflap?

Ian.

aint you sposed to be at duford?  or wobbly wheels?     not feel like going, oh great one??

aint you sposed to be at duford?  or wobbly wheels?     not feel like going, oh great one??

Up at 4 in the morn to go to Duxford, W+W had plenty of fliers for a hectic slot, so I earned some browny points at home

Ian.

have a good time,   hope the weather holds,  dont forget the lettuce butties

Stolen a bit more time on Barkers Camel. Markings now complete, went for the black fin in the end, overpainting the PC10 like the original would have been. The cowl has been butchered with Barkers personal attempt to improve the Clergets cooling, theres hardly any front left!! The cowling and metal panelling originally had the engine turned 'whorls'. This was then overpainted black and eventually the paint was removed back to natural metal. The paint must have been removed chemically since the remains of the now worn engine turning is visible of a few pics. Once the turning was done, the panels were scotchbrighted to tone down the whorls, in places these are rubbed out completely. Its also interesting to see that the originals had the turning done in different directions on different panels. Presumably some of the sheet ali was turned while it was still a full sheet, and the bits were cut from it in the most material saving way The cowling material though was obviously turned after it was spun to shape. Must have looked a bit tacky or 'blinged up' when they were brand spankers though!!

Ian.

Hi Ian,

The Camel's looking PDG I hope you're gonna put a pilot in that cockpit before Cosford - shame to spoil one really beaut lookin' model.


  "Wot, no pilot!"

TTFN,
Neil

Hi Ian,

the mods for Maclaren/Barkers top wing extra large opeing, were they structural and are they easy to do once the build is done?

Hi Ian,

the mods for Maclaren/Barkers top wing extra large opeing, were they structural and are they easy to do once the build is done?

The mods are easy once the wing is built. I built mine as standard then found a pic of Maclarens Camel showing the difference. I then modified mine only to find out that when I changed to Barkers, his had a big cutout but the trailing edge was left in situ

Basically, the two ribs either side of centre are removed, with the spar fairings extended out to the next rib. On mine, the rear spar fairing uses hardish balsa and ply shear webbing, since it makes an ideal place to pick the model up.

Why do you want to know

Do tell!!!

Ian.

Why do you want to know

Do tell!!!

Ian.

I may be modifying one... 

I may be modifying one... 

Are we talking Peters 1/4, or the 'Pegasus' 1/3 scaler here ??

The plot thickens, Ian.

Are we talking Peters 1/4, or the 'Pegasus' 1/3 scaler here ??

The plot thickens, Ian.

The plot's very thick Ian... BOTH! 

Have you seen the Peg one?

Stu, I'll need to speak to you after your visit today

Let me know when you are about

Steve

Stu, I'll need to speak to you after your visit today

Let me know when you are about

Steve

anytime, and all the time... PM sent.... 

Spent the best part of the evening making the Red Devil 'mascot' that sits atop the right hand Vickers. Barker had this mascot throughout WWI, eventually taking it off this aeroplane to mount to his new Sopwith Snipe. It was apparently a car mascot he painted up. I made mine virtually the same way as Ralf (Camel) did in his excellent thread on the Dutch forum

Mick Reeves Sopwith Camel - Modelbouwforum.nl

I used stripped out copper household cable and some stripped household flexi cable. The main skeleton was made using the solid core copper, this was then wound with the multi strand flexi copper, then flooded with soft solder. The shape was basically there but the details were Dremelled in afterwards.

Ian.

Not sure the Reeves gun will stand up to the mounting of it though It aint heavy but its a long way out on an unsupported barrel. I'll have the little fella removable me thinks, I'll be brassed off if he makes a jump for it!!

Etch primed him so he'll be ready for the red paint tomorrow evening.

Ian.

You know...........you really are quite eccentric old fella' but a lovely touch all the same

You know...........you really are quite eccentric old fella' but a lovely touch all the same

You on about me or the little grey chap

Here he is in situ. What do you reckon, 3 or 4 flicks before he gets batted down the flight line

Ian.

Nice job Ian, it could be a new game in the start up box, hunt the devil

Best make him removable, unless you make half a dozen

Steve

Its a good job he's red, it'll be easier to find 

Make half a dozen!!! Syms might take a mould off it, but I'd still have to wait a good year for them to start coming through!! About them pilots Sy

Ian.

I will be picking this model just purchased over the weekend and taking to Cosford as part of the Dawn Patrol.

3W100 boxer twin said to be little flown. The airframe looks as though it had been built for a few years though.

It is the same model for sale at wings and wheels a few weeks back, anyone know of the previous history?

Currently marked in the "spurious" scheme or the prototype hanging in RAF Hendon. I will be changing this over the winter to be Donald Maclaren's last mount, with which he took 9 kills, this was serial no. F2137. Don won all his kills with the Camel totaling 54, this was the most an Ace took with this aircraft type.

Does anyone have the CofG position and the control movement for the Camel please. It is a Mick Reeves one.

For one who like to keep things simple, I find there are servos on both the choke and the electronic ignition unit.... So both are easily switched off..... If I shout dead stick, you know why...

This is the new scheme, as used by Major Don Maclaren, DSO 46Sqn RFC



Steve

This is the new scheme, as used by Major Don Maclaren, DSO 46Sqn RFC



Steve

That's the one.  Thanks Steve. The spinner will be good to mimic...

Particularly like this example as I was rather taken with his 1970's hit single. American Pie..  Shame Madonna murdered that more recently...

Its got to be knackered though Stu. Heres the bloke in his Camel, though I have a feeling this one is G, not U

Ian.

Its got to be knackered though Stu. Heres the bloke in his Camel, though I have a feeling this one is G, not U

Ian.

You mean like this one, being a Sheep, I have to go for the "U" don't i!

I thought that was on U, and it seems some plastic modellers think so too, we need more piccies



Steve

All his craft he had kills on appear to be "u" but I have only started looking.

They are four camels which to the best of my gooooglings shows...

F2137 Kills 46 to 54
D6603 Kills 38 to 45
D6418 Kills 20 or 21 to 37
B9153 Kills 1 to 19 or 20

In these two pics, the weathering pattern on the lower port wings match, one shows the heavily weathered forward fuselage side, the other apparently shows the G on the top wing centre section.

A few piccys. Both Mick Reeves, the light coloured one is at quarter scale and built by Peter Wilkins of the Osbournby club...

Hi Stuey,

Is that the model you picked up Saturday & will it be flying at Cosford?

TTFN,
Neil

Hi Stuey,

Is that the model you picked up Saturday & will it be flying at Cosford?

TTFN,
Neil

...

yes, that's the one..... looked very small inside the trailer! 

it'll be at Cosford as a hangar queen, but won't fly as the rigging wires need re-doing....

it'll be at Cosford as a hangar queen, but won't fly as the rigging wires need re-doing....

Get on with it man!  Charlie C has the heat and RCMF has the know how 

Get on with it man!  Charlie C has the heat and RCMF has the know how 

But, Charlie C's in Scotland, and the decent left and right hand threaded rods and clevises are not available off the shelf...

Do you think they'll notice if I walk out with the 1/4 scale one instead?