Topic: Dawn Patrol - Pfalz 1/3rd Scale Build

Needing to fill a big hole in my workshop, I came across the Pfalz D12 as a very suitable and interesting subject. This coincided with the Flying Scale Models editions April and May 2009 which further whetted my whistle.

Here are the three views and side views from the April edition.

It was also at this time that provostguard put me in touch with proflooney on here who was, as luck would have it, preparing some third scale cad plans from scratch and was looking for someone to build them up. They had already been in touch with Leon at Belair who confirmed he would work with us and could cut out the parts.

Here are some side views from t'web.

 

Leon has been given the go ahead to cut out the parts, and god they are beautiful looking before they are even turned into an airframe..

I love the Fokker D7, it flies well and look rather good, this Pfalz D12 has the same proportions but is so much better looking. the curved fuselage, the lovely tailgroup, and the proper double bay rigging and W shaped cabanes..

Best of all, and this makes me nostalgic to building veteran cars from Airfix kits when I were a lad, is that huge radiator stuck proudly up front......

Although the D7 got the reputation for the best German fighter, the d12 is by far a better looking and evocative machine. They say it was too late to the conflict to gain a reputation, and some pilots were scathing of it's turning ability so against the D7 it would probably be an inferior machine in combat.

It was also resisted by the ground crews as the double bay rigged assembly was far more complex to put together and maintain than the cantilevered and non wired D7.

I plan to go either in line twin, or a Z62 with reduction drive. I have a spare 62 sitting on the bench which is nearly new and has a faultless record in the air so the Z62 is the favoured option at the moment. Will sound great through a working exhaust stack.

The fuselage is built in two halves split down the centre line. Joe has carefully drawn the formers to allow them to be built like this, including stand off to aid alignment. Once on the board, the formers can then be strip covered in balsa and then lightly glassed before the final spray finish. I will be selecting a banded scheme with lozenge top and bottom wings...

Ok, all a bit daunting really....

YAY!

This is gonna be great, I've seen the drawings and the Prof has done a grand job, it's gonna be a corker  


 
Mud

Also, there was an early and a late version, I will be doing the later version with the teardrop fin/rudder group, here is the earlier version in a scheme which I absolutely adore... Eduard Stark I think...

YAY!

This is gonna be great, I've seen the drawings and the Prof has done a grand job, it's gonna be a corker  


 
Mud

thanks Mudders, this build is a little daunting so i will need all the encouragement I can get....

You'll be fine mate, but I know how you feel.

Are you / have you considered the ole reduction drive with the z62  With the rad at the front cooling should be pretty good 

Mud

You'll be fine mate, but I know how you feel.

Are you / have you considered the ole reduction drive with the z62  With the rad at the front cooling should be pretty good 

Mud

Yep, that's my favourite option, have been warned off in-line twins with regard to cooling the rear pot...  And Phil at Fighterace sent me a great clip of the 62 with reduction gear in action... AWESOME...

Which reduction drive? Schultz jobby or MR

thanks Mudders, this build is a little daunting so i will need all the encouragement I can get....

Ewe'll be fine. I can always pop round and make any adjustments needed.

Now then, where did I put that hammer and blow torch  

Gonne be a goodun Mr S  


CC

Which reduction drive? Schultz jobby or MR

Just listen around 14 second... I thank Phil at fighteraces for bring this to me attention...

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yKUBQiycvSI" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yKUBQiycvSI</a>

Ewe'll be fine. I can always pop round and make any adjustments needed.

Now then, where did I put that hammer and blow torch  

Gonne be a goodun Mr S  


CC

Thanks CC, I will be needing some wirework.. None of that new fangled retract stuff of course...

Lovely choice Mr Sheep

Subscribed.

Ian.

I must confess there have been times when I have had more than a passing interest in the D,XII.At first glance the airframe looks complicated,however if looked at in detail it has a great deal going for it. The overall proportions are ideal,The entire upper front of the fuselage forward of the front cabane including the radiator can be removed in one piece allowing access to the engine,fuel tank, and electrics. The upper and lower wings can be built pre rigged as it is a two bay cellule.This giving easy rigging on the field.As for colour schemes well the worlds yer lobster, and the A/C was built in quantity and issued to a number of Jastas. All in all a fine project deserving inclusion in the DP stable,Taking into account the large rudder and the wide track U/C ground handling should be good with little tendancy to ground loop, Jasta23,32,34,35,64,65,66,77,78, and 81 plus home defence units  were equiped with the D,XII by October 1918, After the war D,XIIs were used by Polish units. What a good choice all round.     regards Ken  ;copper;

With that big radiator up front, why not a watercooled fourstroke?

With that big radiator up front, why not a watercooled fourstroke?

Hmmmmmmm maybe not water cooled but perhaps a converted Honda or something?  I'm doing (Mo Deller doing the machining) the GX31, I believe they do a larger one 1.9hp 49cc OHV mini 4-stroke.

...ganna need a load more horses than 1.9 in a 40lb 100"+ bipe................

(News on the Schlundt boxes is pending.... )

With reduction drive?

Naa.....1.9 is less than a ZG26 

A ZG38 is around 2.6, and with  2.8:1 reduction drive they proved great in 30/35lb bipe's.......I can see the Pfalz being a little more than this with a 'fully sheeted' very deep fuselage, plus the extra struts and rigging associated with it's layout.....so a 62 @ 4.7 with a gear drive should have plenty of bananas for it...........

Phil

(News on the Schlundt boxes is pending.... )

 

Got any sizes Phil?

That's going to be great Stuey

What ratio reduction is the drive for the Z62, do you know?   It sounds great and might be just the sort of thing needed for a draggy Tripe with a very short nose

BTW - I really will get round to ringing you in the near future

Alan

The geared Zenoah ZG62 turns a 34x20" prop at anything up to 3,000 rpm. (reduction ratio is 2.5:1, so a shaft rpm of anything up to 7,500)  Idle speed with this prop is around 800 rpm.

The distance between engine mount and prop is 190 mm, just 18mm longer than a stock ZG62

The distance between centre of crankshaft to centre of the gearbox shaft is 80 mm, this is for both the ‘inline’ and the ‘offset’ mounted gearbox. 

Without engine the gearbox weighs 2,160 g and 4,150 g with Zenoah ZG62 (but without muffler)

The gearbox is available in 'inline' and 'offset' arrangement for both the 62 and the 45.....the 45 dims are basically identical, but prop needs to go down to a 32 x 18.

Thanks Phil.  Food for thought

Alan

Phil, have you got the height dimensions, or a 'diameter' dimension. That inline unit unit looks mighty tall

Ian.

Nothing exact as yet..............

A stock 62 is 140mm from crank centre to the top of the plug cap........add 80mm in the other direction for crank centre to gearbox shaft centre......so 220mm in total, and I estimate maybe 20-30mm more to get the main drive wheel of the gearbox shaft fully enclosed as well (250mm total)

As for diameter....the 80mm offset between engine crank and gearbox shaft will be offset to one side on the offset box........with the 140mm and 80mm dims, you should be able to work out a diameter with some simple drawing....

Phil

Stewy I did design the Earlier Version  Tail for the Pfalz and got it to Leon so if ya ever build a second one ya can do that and then have 1 of each )))

Sounds like a sound idea to me young Joe.........regards Ken

Stu Alan Yendle sent these to me to post of a friends Pfalz

heres the email info he sent with the photos

Hi Joe.

My good friend Randy Smith from Atlanta, GA scratch built a one third scale DXII back in 2004.  It was powered with a Quadra 75 and was a great flyer. Here are some photos. I took them, so if you want to post them go ahead.

Alan

 

Looks a nice interesting a/c Stuey.....looking forward to the build

Phil, are you selling the 62 with the reduction gear now?  Please say that you are please, Also will you be selling the reduction gear separately?  I have a Z 62 already waiting for a plane.  Im going to put it in that new BUSA DH4 kit, but want a reduction gear. 
Glen B

Hi Glen

Funny should should ask this today........I have just this morning received official confirmation from Schlundt Modellbau in Germany that Fighteraces are to be their UK based agent. I have an 'Info pack' on the way from them, so as soon as I have this, I will be making big updates to the site with all the details, photos and prices of their gearboxes (which will be sold separately or with an engine.....), laminated props and some VERY nice GIANT scale kits......

Phil

Hi Glen

Funny should should ask this today........I have just this morning received official confirmation from Schlundt Modellbau in Germany that Fighteraces are to be their UK based agent. I have an 'Info pack' on the way from them, so as soon as I have this, I will be making big updates to the site with all the details, photos and prices of their gearboxes (which will be sold separately or with an engine.....), laminated props and some VERY nice GIANT scale kits......

Phil

positively dribbling now Phil. 

mmmmmmmmmmm... PINK!

lol thats  ewe stewy

Have heard through the grapvine that the plans are printed and the parts all crisply cut.... now just down to collection from Cosford and the fun may start...

I am going to write up the build sequence on here for anybody to debate...

I have it on good authorty that two will be built too..... Own up, who is doing the other one.