Topic: Dawn Patrol - Pfalz 1/3rd Scale Build

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I have it on good authorty that two will be built too..... Own up, who is doing the other one. 

I know, I know 

Fuselage Built in two handed halves

Measuring from the plans, mark out the all former positions and a central datum line on your flat building board. The datum line will ensure the formers are aligned vertically when viewed from above.

Cut out right angled blocks to act as spacers for each fuselage half former. Using your markings screw the spacer blocks to the building board with gaps between each to take each former as you go along the fuselage. Once all formers are held upright, check the formers against the datum line

The rear most former has the tailpost upright included.

Lay spruce longerons into the former slots and glue using weights to ensure the longerons remain in contact with the formers until the glue is set.

Now the planking can begin by using 1/8" by 1/4" balsa strips lengthwise from the centre outwards. These will need to taper towards the rear and towards the front. Planking can be completed up to the top of the fuselage but limit the planking to the side only down to the start of the fairing for the lower wing

Once both sides are planked and dried they can be removed from the board and checked for alignment with each other. You will in effect halves of an easter egg  

The interior can be fitted out prior to the final fixing together of the sides as follows.

Cut out the cockpit surround. Sheet the interior of the cockpit with diagonal 1/64" ply to simulate the original

Install Cabane/Struts mounting points

Install undercarriage mounting points

Install rear box section for the tailplane to pass through

Make up and Install the tailskid mechanism

Offer up the engine and plan the firewall installation and bearers as required and then fit

Attach the lower wing stubs and sheet the upper fairings

Construct the undercarriage wires and fixing metho, it is likley these will be permanently fixed into hardwood bearers with grooves and j bolts

Construct and install the upper "W" cabanes and permanently fix these into the fus sides

Fabricate (glass fibre?) the front lower cowling under the prop driver

Fabricate from metal sheet the upper cowlings

Fabricate the Radiator

Install the Fuel tank

Plan and install ALL the servos and bearer, prefit the closed loops and plan for the access hatches...

Complete the cockpit installation and finish

The fuselage sides can now be joined, final planking under the fueslage and sanded ready for light glass covering.

Fabricate the stabiliser, fin, rudder and elevators

Install the stabiliser including the option of removal

Glass and spray the fuselage

Final install of the engine and radio as required









 

Sounds quick and easy, is it done yet? 

Ian.

So far Stu the order looks pretty good. I was talking to the other person yest andon the back end I mentioned as you frame the fuse, I would put the stab saddle in before fully stringering. I would suggest something like 3/8" thick Balsa going to the building board and at a slight angle to match the taper of the Stab. Then sand it flush with the outside of the fuse formers. Then I would insert some 1/4 ply blocks or something between the fuse formers on top and bottom of where the stab is so you can mount 2 "L" brackets on top and 2 on bottom which screw into the stab to hold it in place as is used on the Roland. (will post a Pic. You will also have to then trim the fuse formers to create the slot to slide the stab through.

By putting the 3/8 Balsa to the center then later when you join the halves and glue both 3/8 balsa together you then have a nice Bed which you can use to slide the stab through.

Just a thought on what was in my head as to that area.

I see you aint havin wings on yours Stu, I suppose it will speed up the finish, can I be there when you maiden it? :''Ken

He has stubby wings on there ken he mentioned stubby ones lol its gonna be like one of them bumblebee bipes

He has stubby wings on there ken he mentioned stubby ones lol its gonna be like one of them bumblebee bipes

but, but, but, Ken told me this was the worlds first daschopernbladewhirlingclinkermakermachine

or in english...


a helicopter,

Heres the finished plane in Civy colors but think it looks better in the pink salmon color

YAY, Joe, that's sooooooo cute...

As for the wings, I am in a quandary about that.

The Centre section does not contain the mountings for the inboard cabanes so does not make a natural break point for the wing to be made up into three like on my Camels..

Can make the join outboard of the cabanes i suppose but this won't be easy as this would coincide with the nice differing lengths of the ribs....

So, could it be a one piece top wing? Or even a two piece... Need to think about this...

The cabanes/struts to wing mounting points should be easy as on the full scale they bolted on from the top....

The 1/4 scale D12 I did a few years ago had a two piece wing, split at a rib near the mid point (from memory there isn't a rib on the centre line, but I may be wrong since it was a good few years ago. The two panels slid together onto piano wire dowels and tubes that were sandwiched between the upper and lower spars. The actual join line was right on the edge of a rib tape, with the mating ribs faced with 1/64 ply. These ribs were stiffened to resist the pull of the covering and with care the joint can be all but invisible, turning what will be a largish wing at 1/3 into a very compact and easy to transport machine. Mine also had the fuselage in two bits, with the join just behind the cockpit. If you look at the back cover of the Windsock Datafile jobbie, I did the scheme that has a stripe in this area so the break was disguised nicely. I did only have a Fiesta at the time!!

What scheme you thinking of Stu? ... And the other builder of the early tailed one should Ken wish to reveal himself!

Ian.

I would also do the Interplanes Similar Stu like on the Roland. the roland the cabanes and interplanes bolted on the outside of the wing. the interplanes used ball and socket to connect the interplanes but the Ball ran through the wings and bolted to the outside of the wing. You can smoke and mirrors the ball joint and then bolt them on the outside of the wing like the roland. It was something fairly common to early german machines so would still be scale.

I had Leon cut you and the secret builder 2 extra ribs 1/4 inch thick so you can join the wing in the center if you so wish. just replace the center rib with the new ones and you all set

2 x 1/4" ply ctr ribs seems the way to go if you need to split the wing, which incidently as the lower wing is permanently rigged to the top wing  as Joe and Ian have pointed out has a number of benificial points in their favour.Battery and servo in one wing and rx and servo in the otherI also do like the idea of the early production fin and rudder. There again I must say I havent given it much thought, But there again if stu likes the idea I humbly suggest a quick phone call to Leon termorrer might not come amiss for a couple of ribs or so extra. Only a suggestion you must understand as I dont want to seem interferring,cos you all know I am not that sort of chap.....regards Ken  ;copper;

Picked up the parts from Leon Cole (Belair) at Cosford yesterday, and what a stunning set of parts we have. We have chosen all ply through out, a wise choice as Joe has done a stirling job of adding lightness into the CAD drawings.

These will build into a stunning skeleton....

Once I unpack the trailer today i'll take some photographs...

Mind you, i did pick up something else very interesting from Cosford too......

A few pictures od the wing plans and ribs laid out for the lower wings

And some more... showing the top wing, centre sections and ribs laid out...

And that lovely fuselage...

WOW I did do a good job rofl. its one thing to look at it all on the computer but once you get to see how the actual parts look its a whole diff ballgame. I was so nervous waiting to see how they turned out and praying they all looked good and proper.


Thanks for posting Stu

Gentlemen of the Dawn Patrol, I feel it incumbant of me that it is time I came out of the closet (confession they say is good for the soul). the other D.XII is in my hot little hands and after much agonising on my part there was much movement of differing airframes between interested parties at Cosford the end result being I decided the D,XII was the way for me to move forward. Joe Huntley the desighner for those who are not familiar with the name (his alter ego is prof looney) is a talented and prolific artist of the highest calibre collaborated for a long timewith Stuey,myself, and Leon at Belair the end result being a kit of accurate and may I say beutifully cut parts which just beg to be done justice to. The idea now is to do a joint build of two D,XIIs mine differing only that it is to be the earlier production version. Joe took this on board and in two shakes of a lambs tail sent Leon the modified drgs to effect this difference. I now need to learn how to post piccies in order to be able to liase with sheepdip on this.I have allready approached Phil@fighteraces in regards a Zenoah and the German reduction gear which I feel is a perfect marriage of airframe and power plant. The direction the sheepmaster will go on this I leave for him to tell. The present thinking of both A/C in the same Jasta has also be talked about. regards Ken  ;copper;

I have allready approached Phil@fighteraces in regards a Zenoah and the German reduction gear which I feel is a perfect marriage of airframe and power plant.

For which all the details will be up on our site later this week. I did have some details and photos etc... with me at Cosford over the weekend.......but a time to get together to discuss it never seemed to happen 

Phil

For which all the details will be up on our site later this week. I did have some details and photos etc... with me at Cosford over the weekend.......but a time to get together to discuss it never seemed to happen 

Phil

need one for the 15 foot lvg too, will a 62 and reduction drive work on a model of that size?

It all boils down to weight & drag....but I would have thought so yes. Schlundt produce a kit for a 1:2.7 Stampe SV 4B....span is 3.1 meters and weight is just under 20kg......this model is fully aerobatic (in a scale sense) on the reduction drive 62, to I'd have thought a model of 1m more span, and maybe 10lb more weight should 'amble about' quite nicely......

Phil

Phil, I have calculated the finished AUW around the 55lb mark and therefore did register it with the LMA to that effect. However even if the sheepdippenmeister somehow managed to bang the finished weight some 20lbs above this figure the wing loading will still be ridiculous as the wing area is some 70 odd sq ft. Got to be a bit careful here as I realise as a large two bay A/C with all that struttery and miles of wire may tend to be a bit draggy. Your thoughts on this in regards power requirements in the light of this info will I am sure be appreciated. From your latest post I guess you were under the impression it was below the magic 44lbs. Unless Stue is heavey handed 55LBS max should be obtainable. regards Ken  ;copper;

Not really.....the Schlundt Stampe mentioned above comes in just under the 20kg's........so say 40-42lb.....and at this, it's aerobatic in a 'scale' manner. Add 10lb and we are close to the 55 you anticipated. It won't be a rocket ship, but with a light loading and the draft from a 34 x 20 prop at close on 3,000rpm, I'd say it;ll fly just the way it should do.

Phil

Not really.....the Schlundt Stampe mentioned above comes in just under the 20kg's........so say 40-42lb.....and at this, it's aerobatic in a 'scale' manner. Add 10lb and we are close to the 55 you anticipated. It won't be a rocket ship, but with a light loading and the draft from a 34 x 20 prop at close on 3,000rpm, I'd say it;ll fly just the way it should do.

Phil

Thanks Phil, would it be the installation of your choice? Or would you consider something larger? I don't want a rocket ship, just circuits, eights, and bumps and goes... And it won't be going up on windy days either...

just circuits, eights, and bumps and goes...

Can we change that to "Touch" and goes please, I have seen your bumps 

Can we change that to "Touch" and goes please, I have seen your bumps 

yeah baby, and you ain't touching my bumps....

Thanks all for the advice on the wing joining and I think that the join in the centre section is the way to go as Ian suggests. Having the plans and bits laid out in front of me today to do an inventory does help the mind think it through somewhat...

 

Hi all,

now listen up 'coz this is important.. 

Leon's short kit I think is stunning and i have the waft of burnt ply wafting around the house.

Now for the but bit...

Provostguard's LVG C6 that is part built has become available and is begging for my input. Therefore I have decided to put my D12 build on hold until the C6 is completed, around 9 months methinks....

What's made this decision easier is good ole mudders... who has been contemplating building a D12 as well.

So what I have done is passed the D12 to Mudders who reckons he will start whilst the 504 is being sorted and can build in parallel with Ken. That will free me up to do the C6, and then do a D12 next year once provost/muds have filled in the gaps!...

I hope this doesn't put anyone out? And you know what a superb builder Mudders is as his D6 shows admirably...

And I will be looking over your shoulders guys as you will be mine for the C6..

Kind regards

Stu...

Stuey you need a sheep dog to keep you going in 1 direction!

Stuey you need a sheep dog to keep you going in 1 direction!

...nah, that's boring, grab opportunities when you can... 

If I have to redo the info boards once more.............................AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

 

Steve

Well I have finally bit the bullet,Zenoah 62 with the 2.5 to 1 reduction gear ordered and paid for including prop.Picked up some timber from SLEC at Rufforth and now compiling wood list to send in. The drawings are a dream but they dont cross all the tees a lot of the internal construction is left to the nous of the builder. There are 19 fuselage formers and 24 1/8"sq stringers that run the full length of the fuselage, The fuselage is built in two halves with the internal detail built in before joining along a vertical crutch.This being so there are some 20 odd operations to the formers that must be completed before joining the two halves together. This does not include any cockpit detail. The position of the firewall has to be determined before any assembly can start, So also the U/C and cabane hardpoints need to be established.So good people, it can be appreciated this isnt a five minute job, Having said that the next guy who builds one will have a much easier time of it but the basis of a very attractive A/C is there and once the 1/32" ply outer skin is applied the fuselage will be light and immensley strong. The cunning plan is to co operate on a dual build with Mudders the only difference being that I intend building the earlier version of the D,XII which has a vastly different fin and rudder shape, this leaving me futher scope as to the final colour details.I am investing in a camera and my next door neighbor will show me how to post piccies as and when. regards Ken  ;copper;

Well I have finally bit the bullet,Zenoah 62 with the 2.5 to 1 reduction gear ordered and paid for including prop.Picked up some timber from SLEC at Rufforth and now compiling wood list to send in. The drawings are a dream but they dont cross all the tees a lot of the internal construction is left to the nous of the builder. There are 19 fuselage formers and 24 1/8"sq stringers that run the full length of the fuselage, The fuselage is built in two halves with the internal detail built in before joining along a vertical crutch.This being so there are some 20 odd operations to the formers that must be completed before joining the two halves together. This does not include any cockpit detail. The position of the firewall has to be determined before any assembly can start, So also the U/C and cabane hardpoints need to be established.So good people, it can be appreciated this isnt a five minute job, Having said that the next guy who builds one will have a much easier time of it but the basis of a very attractive A/C is there and once the 1/32" ply outer skin is applied the fuselage will be light and immensley strong. The cunning plan is to co operate on a dual build with Mudders the only difference being that I intend building the earlier version of the D,XII which has a vastly different fin and rudder shape, this leaving me futher scope as to the final colour details.I am investing in a camera and my next door neighbor will show me how to post piccies as and when. regards Ken  ;copper;

Hello Ken this is my first post in these forums, have been lurking up till now. Anyway I wonder if you could point me in the right direction concerning the G-62 reduction gear unit. Where can I purchase the unit, what size prop will it swing, how does it compare to the G-38 reduction unit, etc? Any help you can provide will be most helpful and so as not to clutter the thread any response can be sent to dr1tripe@aol.com.

Many thanks, Ron

bloodyell ken we dont care abt yer dang enginey things we want to see the dang plane built rofl. engines no good without it

haha had to give ya Carp today as im in a feisty mood

Hello Ken this is my first post in these forums, have been lurking up till now. Anyway I wonder if you could point me in the right direction concerning the G-62 reduction gear unit. Where can I purchase the unit, what size prop will it swing, how does it compare to the G-38 reduction unit, etc? Any help you can provide will be most helpful and so as not to clutter the thread any response can be sent to dr1tripe@aol.com.

Many thanks, Ron

Ron

The 62 reduction drive, prop, muffler etc etc.....are all coming from me here at Fighteraces...............(sorry for butting in Ken )

Operation wise, they are almost identical to the 38 drive......just a little bigger, and operating at a slightly higher rpm as it's a 2.5:1 reduction as opposed to the 2.8:1 on the 38 unit. Props....34" x 20" is the recommended....I have these in 'Standard' and 'Old Timer' styles.....

ZG62 2.5:1 reduction drive

Muffler for reduction drive use...

Laminated wood props....

Any questions.....'fire away'.

Phil

Ken...... Dont buy a camera !! I've got a spare Fuji Finepix which is unused, you can have it... I'll bring it to the Nats..... Jim

Mr Lambert you are a star, and a fine judge of horseflesh.Regards to you Ken  ;copper;

Well the nationals are gone and the nights are starting to draw in and the building board is clear (thanks sheepdip) so now is the time for serious consideration of my plan of action. I havent been idle however and a lot of x pollination of ideas between the flapper of mud, myself and Joe, plus Leon at Belair has taken place, this resulting in futher cut parts from Leon being ordered and goodies liberated from the visit to the trade stands at the Nats means that I am almost ready to start the build.The joint build with mudders will not be identical for a number of reasons.Mudstrangler is going the balsa plank/glasscloth covering route on the fuselage, a method he is comfortable with whereas I am cladding mine in ply sheet (a la Albatros D.Va) system.The end result in both cases will produce a very light but strong airframe.I am very much a traditional builder having been out of the hobby for twenty odd years but the way I do things has served me well in the past so I am staying with the things I understand.There is no definitive way of doing things each must travel their own path and having had long talks with Matt we both understand this.It will be interesting to follow the differing approaches to arrive at the same result.Some of the ideas I have thrown at mudders he has gone along with.Likewise his wing building methods I like and I have revised my original idea of a two piece wing meeting in the centre to his suggestion of a fixed C/S and a three piece upper wing arrangement.One thing that is immediatley obvious is that a lot of work on the fuselage must be completed before the two halves are joined.So there we have it, We await the cut parts from Belair and need to compile a wood list then away we go.Mudders I am sure will have some imput on this and hopefully will be along shortly (I rely on him to produce the photoes of the two builds) and have suggested that they be done on the new DP website.Along the way input from all will be appreciated. regards Ken  ;copper;

and have suggested that they be done on the new DP website.

I know nothing

Steve