Topic: Cotswold Slopers!

Yup was busy - 20 or so modellers.

Afternoon spoiled by the Paragliders. I counted 14 airborne at on time. 13 nice responsible chaps and chappies but as usual one maverick with a blue/white/yellow sail who constantly flew over the AGREED AND PUBLISHED - on their website flight line. Not much point in complaining to their group committee as they are impotent and inept from my personal experience with communicating with them both verbally and in print.

When the lift went further West and they sunk out we had some great flying.

more 'work' flying off sea cliffs, is it?

It's a hard life...

Nope. Went to Lesley on my way to the races (Cheltenham not Bahrain). I had to leave just as the Paragliders took off.
You were mised (well I wanted to see your black eye) 

Yup was busy - 20 or so modellers.

Afternoon spoiled by the Paragliders. I counted 14 airborne at on time. 13 nice responsible chaps and chappies but as usual one maverick with a blue/white/yellow sail who constantly flew over the AGREED AND PUBLISHED - on their website flight line. Not much point in complaining to their group committee as they are impotent and inept from my personal experience with communicating with them both verbally and in print.

When the lift went further West and they sunk out we had some great flying.

I will raise this at the next Avon HPGC meeting. To be fair, it's usually visiting pilots but that's no excuse!

You were mised (well I wanted to see your black eye) 

I'll be out in the morning - NW, is that Selsley or Frocester? I'll probably go to Lesley first because I want to remaiden the Heron and Lesley is much gentler with the new boys...

My black eye never really materialised, just bruising. Another victory for EPP!

And the Fiktor has recovered from Ben's own gentle ministrations.. I've trimmed the shattered dihedral (it must have been quite an impact to smash EPP into a few pieces...) and cut the other side down to match - should be a bit twitchier and less stable now, which suits me.

I have two more dihedrals that I cut off to make it anyway, if they are too short now I can always stick the old ones back on.

I'm looking to fly from Lesley in the morning as the wind is forecast 14mph and NW. Pretty much ideal. Just hope that most of the yobo paragliders are too hungover to get out of bed so that we are able to enjoy the slopes responsibly.
 

I'm looking to fly from Lesley in the morning as the wind is forecast 14mph and NW. Pretty much ideal. Just hope that most of the yobo paragliders are too hungover to get out of bed so that we are able to enjoy the slopes responsibly.
 

Yep, leave the slopes to us yobbo gliderists instead

I'm aiming to be there 10:30ish. Very 'ish' since it's Sunday...

I will raise this at the next Avon HPGC meeting. To be fair, it's usually visiting pilots but that's no excuse!

Tim, it's always the excuse. The local bunch of PGs are a great bunch of flyers. It'always the visitor, that they can't control.

We talked about it this afternoon, amongst the glider flyers, and the concensus was, if one of our lot stepped well out of line we would deal with it, firmly. The PGs have some pratts with a death wish "yes, we were in the right", printed on their headstone....but not prepared to behave sensibly to minimise the risks because they have right of way.

Sunday 9.00AM
the west slope on Selsley 10 - 12MPH
Phil

Sunday 9.00AM
the west slope on Selsley 10 - 12MPH
Phil

Will be there around 10:30. 

I'll see you guys later then

Steve

I'll be there about eleven Steve.
See you later
John.

Andy's A10 at Selsley Sunday morning
2nd Photo http://www.glos-mfc.co.uk/cs/images/10feb/andy-a102.jpg
Phil

Andy's A10 at Selsley Sunday morning

Needs a working gun....

Anyway, here are the roughly edited lowlights I took with my new camera today. Sorry about the watermark, the PC I had a decent video editor on died and I've been too busy building planes to fix it...

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GNtlquw_4iY" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GNtlquw_4iY</a>

If anyone is interested, the camera is this one and there is lots more info than you need about it at this page (it's a '#3 type camera'). You need to add a Micro SD card as well - about £10 for a 2GB card, that's about 25 minute video capacity.

Chuck muppet moment captured on video. FANTASTIC!
 

For the money, I think that camera is pretty damn good especially when you consider the price of a Flycamone2. I really like the fact that it's so small and therefore has the potential to fix it on various sites of the model.
 

It get;s my vote. Now if only we could see one being used on a model where the pilot actually know's what he's doing?!!
 

Chuck muppet moment captured on video. FANTASTIC!
 

I didn't think Pete did all that badly...

For the money, I think that camera is pretty damn good especially when you consider the price of a Flycamone2. I really like the fact that it's so small and therefore has the potential to fix it on various sites of the model.
 

It get;s my vote. Now if only we could see one being used on a model where the pilot actually know's what he's doing?!!
 

I edited that bit out

I like the last landing - I didn't even know that hole was there!

I think I need to tweak the focus to infinity instead of 6' or so, but to do that means taking it apart and breaking the thread seal on the lens..

I think I need to tweak the focus to infinity instead of 6' or so, but to do that means taking it apart and breaking the thread seal on the lens..

If it breaks, buy a new one (cheap as chips). Got to be worth a try especially as most of the time the view will be of the surrounding scenery.
 

I think I need to tweak the focus to infinity instead of 6' or so, but to do that means taking it apart and breaking the thread seal on the lens..

I'll have a go, I just wanted to use it a bit first.. there's a few weeks lead time getting a replacement from Hong Kong...

Oh.. and the quality is actually way better than it looks on Youtube at the moment, they are still 'processing' it, whatever that means. And I edited it at a pretty low resolution and bitrate because I had to do it on my craptop.

Hi Guys just wanted to say thanks for letting me abuse the  air at Selsey today great to meet you all and look forward to my next visit.

Thoroughly enjoyed my flights with the ASH and the EVO some of the best sport flying Ive had for a while

Cheers

Steve

 

Christine and I will be on Lesley's side face this afternoon, if the wind forecast is correct.

Anyone else ?

Tally Hoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo 

Andrew

Christine and I will be on Lesley's side face this afternoon, if the wind forecast is correct.

Anyone else ?

Not me :(

I see on Phils Newsletter that he caught Doug's K8 crash... looks even more abrupt and unexplained on video than it did in person.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBhGTm7cUrE" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EBhGTm7cUrE</a>

And curiously the 'related videos' bit on Youtube came up with this.. a paraglider hanging around in front of the hump...

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ToiZWN-1DlU" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ToiZWN-1DlU</a>

Not me :(

I see on Phils Newsletter that he caught Doug's K8 crash... looks even more abrupt and unexplained on video than it did in person.


And curiously the 'related videos' bit on Youtube came up with this.. a paraglider hanging around in front of the hump...

Gutted about the K8. I would presume it was a stall that caused it to crash. Whatever the reason, it's a damn shame but hopefully a bit of TLC will get her back up int he air soon.

As for the paraglider, I'm not quite so sympathetic. He blatantly flies over the millennium stone when there are models flying. Either he's not aware / doesn't understand the agreement or he's a complete (insert your own expletive here)
 

I have loaded the photos from Sunday to

Index of /photo

thanks for all the photos sent to me, I loaded some to our web site and some to the SCSA

Cotswold slope flying photos

Phil

PS,  the para glider guy with the video flew tuesday and stayed well away from the models

Gutted about the K8. I would presume it was a stall that caused it to crash. Whatever the reason, it's a damn shame but hopefully a bit of TLC will get her back up int he air soon.

As for the paraglider, I'm not quite so sympathetic. He blatantly flies over the millennium stone when there are models flying. Either he's not aware / doesn't understand the agreement or he's a complete to$$er!
 

I've had a few similar moments in that same area - get a little sideways, get a gust under one wing and it all happens very very quickly. I try to keep as low down and straight as possible until I get out over the treeline. Hence landing before I got there in my video... just a bit *too* low down.

As for the paraglider, I'm curious how they are supposed to know - are there common slope guides they use, or is it as localised and fragmented as gliding slope advice is?

I've had a few similar moments in that same area - get a little sideways, get a gust under one wing and it all happens very very quickly. I try to keep as low down and straight as possible until I get out over the treeline. Hence landing before I got there in my video... just a bit *too* low down.

As for the paraglider, I'm curious how they are supposed to know - are there common slope guides they use, or is it as localised and fragmented as gliding slope advice is?

I think your spot on re the K8 mishap. Definitely looks like the wind catches a wing. It's a vicious arrivale none the less.
 

As for the paraglider arrangement - I would have thought it works in the same way as it does for us i.e. primarily via word of mouth or the local website. Perhpas I should stop being so judgemental and give him the benefit of the doubt.
 

These are the rules they should follow

http://www.dfhgc.org/dfhgc/extras/BHPA-BMFA%20Code%20of%20Pratice.pdf


Phil

I've had a few similar moments in that same area - get a little sideways, get a gust under one wing all happens very very quickly.

That sounds like a line from my book of excuses, had a similar launch first go with Hilla, she is EPP so just bounce and chuck again.
There is a reason for my preference for EPP. Hence my name on this forum.

It was a sad sight to witness, even on video, just glad no-one was hurt.

Big thanks to Phil for the picture of Hilla launching and not as she crashed.

I as an individual, not an SCSA club member, have had several communications by email and contact on the slope with the paragliders at Selsley. 

The majority are fine and stick to the agreed airspace. There is always one that flies like an irresposible pratt and believes his legal right of way will protect him from an F3F whizzo 100+ mph glider. So be it.

His friends and fellow PGs are unable to control him, a 'visting maverick', not really an acceptable excuse. Sooner or later someone will get hurt.

I get really emotional about these utterly STUPID PG people, who can't apply commonsense to two hobbies we both enjoy, all because they have the right of way and refuse to abide by agreements made by sensible members.

The West bowl at Selsley this afternoon, was at it's very best and all the PGs were at Frocester! Andy/Christine/Guy/Ade/GordonP and others. Haresfield if you want to venture out for the rest of the week....

I have loaded the photos from Sunday

Nice photo's Phill, I like  the ASH launch brilliant timimg

Steve

Had a sneaky fly at Haresfield this afternoon. Phil turned up at the same time so we had a bit of combat with the wings. I took the opportunity to trim the Bee2 but also enjoyed some air time with the BeEvolution. The wings collided a few times in the air which proved the combat credentials of my models. Phil was not quite so lucky. We ended the sesh after a wing contact which resulted in his battery falling out of the model! 4 combat points for a knock down to me I guess! We were able to recover the wing but the battery is lost. You can't beat a good bit of combat, especially when you take out a better flier than yourself!
 

Hi Eyeboy, nice to meet you and everyone else Sunday it was an excellent day.

Also thanks to Wingtech for lending me his Tx due to mine glitching   You were right with the problem, opened up the back wiggled a couple of wires and one from each pot broke. One from the pot itself and one from where they pass through the guide-bugger.
Anyway it is now on it's way to Mike for him to laugh at and repair hopefully  

Will be back to the 'wolds very soon,
Cheers John.

Ah Andy, I just love to hear about Phil t F getting a good whacking.....

Hi John
No problem glad the TX is an easy fix thanks for the N/S no excuses now to not get me foamies finished.
Really nice site I thought definately worth the drive.

Steve

I as an individual, not an SCSA club member, have had several communications by email and contact on the slope with the paragliders at Selsley.  

The majority are fine and stick to the agreed airspace. There is always one that flies like an irresposible pratt and believes his legal right of way will protect him from an F3F whizzo 100+ mph glider. So be it.

His friends and fellow PGs are unable to control him, a 'visting maverick', not really an acceptable excuse. Sooner or later someone will get hurt.

I get really emotional about these utterly STUPID PG people, who can't apply commonsense to two hobbies we both enjoy, all because they have the right of way and refuse to abide by agreements made by sensible members.

The real deal is this...............................we will be the ones to suffer.

I quote............................

Air Navigation Order

The ANO is part of the body of law of the UK and if you break it you are liable to criminal prosecution.

Article 74 of the ANO requires that...........

" A person shall not recklessly or negligently cause an aircraft to endanger any person or property"

Article 73 of the ANO requires that.............

" A person shall not recklessly or negligently act in a manner likely to endanger an aircraft or any person therein"

THESE APPLY TO ALL MODEL AIRCRAFT AT ALL TIMES WHATEVER THEIR WEIGHT OR SIZE.

This extract is from page 11 of the BMFA handbook, which, as you are all responsible pilots, you have all read. 

Seems pretty straight forward to me.........................

Tally Hooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo  

Andrew

Article 74 of the ANO requires that...........

" A person shall not recklessly or negligently cause an aircraft to endanger any person or property"

Article 73 of the ANO requires that.............

" A person shall not recklessly or negligently act in a manner likely to endanger an aircraft or any person therein"

THESE APPLY TO ALL MODEL AIRCRAFT AT ALL TIMES WHATEVER THEIR WEIGHT OR SIZE.

Completely agree. However.. surely a paraglider is an aircraft too?

So they too shall not 'cause an aircraft to endanger any person or property' or 'act in a manner likely to endanger an aircraft...'.

Either RC models are aircraft and hence bound AND PROTECTED by the ANO, or they aren't and aren't bound by it.

Of course there are larger considerations of human safety rather than just damage to unmanned models, but the law isn't one sided in favour of the PGs... there is a large responsibility on BOTH sides to take care and not act recklessly.

If you flew a paraglider would you fly away from the majority, break a local agreement, put in place to enhance your safety and fly amongst the model gliders, with limb and life, protected only by the modellers' BMFA handbook?

If the answer to that is 'no,' then we are all in agreement!

A couple of years ago our models were classified as small aircraft.

The answer to your question Guy, is most definitely NO.

Please note these rules are Civil Aviation Authority, Air Navigation Orders.............. U K law.

Yes, these rules also apply to the para gliders.
The big difference between them and us is, they are carrying a very valuable cargo........................a human being. Who in the event of an incident would likely get hurt maybe even killed.  What would that cost against the cost of one of our models?
Would you in a court of law be able to prove that our maverick PG was flying negligently or recklessly?
If the answer to that question is yes.......................then you have nothing to worry about.

Tally Hoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo  

Andrew
  
 

As both a model flier and a PG pilot I'm trying to take an impartial view here.
I personally have stopped flying PGs on Selsley because when it's good it's crowded and when it's not so good there are better places to fly. That said, it's the only Northish hill for some distance. It's also a gentle slope and therefore great for beginners (usually identified by a red ribbon from there harness).
Flying a PG is a really unique sensation, like no other form of flying. It's very open and dynamic which is part of the appeal. When flying close to the ground, it takes an a lot of concentration which explains why sometime pilots drift into the modellers airspace. It's also difficult to keep an eye on a lot of small models whizzing around behind you.
No PG pilot would want to become entangled with a model, they have more at risk.
There are a few mavericks, but the Avon Club are generally very good and have either a coach or club coach on the hill. If you have an issue with a PG, go and talk to the Avon rep who will talk to the offending pilot.
Fly your model close by to intimidate the PG generally won't work. You'll probably have to hit the PG before they notice your model.
Ultimately, if a PG flies over our airspace, anything more than a verbal complant will probably result in all types of flying being banned on Lesley.

A couple of years ago our models were classified as small aircraft.

The answer to your question Guy, is most definitely NO.

Please note these rules are Civil Aviation Authority, Air Navigation Orders.............. U K law.

Yes, these rules also apply to the para gliders.
The big difference between them and us is, they are carrying a very valuable cargo........................a human being. Who in the event of an incident would likely get hurt maybe even killed.  What would that cost against the cost of one of our models?
Would you in a court of law be able to prove that our maverick PG was flying negligently or recklessly?
If the answer to that question is yes.......................then you have nothing to worry about.

Tally Hoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo  

Andrew
  
 

I'll see you later at Frocester and bring my hard hat!! Guy

There was a similar thread on the SE regional forum which went round and round in circles and got quite personal!
As I said above, I had several conversations with the PGs leader - all quite amicable.
The maverick or visitor whom they can't control is the problem. There were 12+ airborne at once on Saturday and all but one played to the rules.

Great session at Frocester this afternoon with Bob t B / Tiger Phil t F / Tim   and Marcellus flying Typhoons / MiraJ & Zagis MPs etc.
 
Phil t F turned up and looked contented. Commented how being bullied had upset him and he was glad to see that eyeboy whoops the bully was not to be seen. Goodness knows what actually happened at Haresfield earlier in the week?!

TIM (le frog - he doesn't know we christened him that as there are so many Tims in the Cotswolds on this forum) brought my 20 year old MP along and I reinstalled a 35 Meg Rx to sort the thing out before Tim invested in some more 2.4 Rxs) (He lost his Zagi at Selsley, remember???)

Seriously tail heavy, easily fixed and he flew it for 20 minutes at a time several times. No bad for a chap on his second or third slope outing. I'm a lousy teacher, I shouted and stamped a bit but we all parted friends, I think. I found teaching someone to fly slope, exhausting and stressful but therapeutic....

Guy a la Marcellus....