Topic: 1/4 scale SE5a

Welding done but I made the mistake of positioning the plates prior to fitting the thin ply shear webs so due to the angle of the rear cabanes when the ply is on the plate is about 1/16" to low, not a major issue, when I remove the cabanes for de-fluxing and painting I can file off the bottom to suit.  The whole setup seems to have taken me forever, it still needs a few more 1/16" balsa shear webs adding between the centre ribs then ply to the whole centre section, I was going to put on 1/32" but I think 1/64" may be suitable at least to the top anyway.  I don't have any so will have to go back to Slec for a few more materials and will pick up some small screws etc whilst I'm there.

I'm not 100% happy with the setup or my workmanship but it's fit for purpose, it is a sport model after all.





I can't decide what the next step should be:

1) undercarriage mounts & forward fuselage floor
2) top formers and ply curved bit inc the gun hump
3) bottom wing centre section
4) wings
5) tail surfaces (rudder is made and fin started)
6) undercarriage
7) 1/2 or full gun
8) dashboard & seat cockpit details (if any at all)

Whatever the next step I don't think I should be up at this time thinking about it    1/32" or 1/64" ply for centre wing section covering    same goes for the fuselage top, I felt a bit of 1/64" whilst at Slec and it feels VERY flexible, maybe to flexible 

Just checked the price between 1/32 and 1/64 ply 1/32 is 2/3 the price so that could be a deciding factor.

Looks great Shaun and it is coming on in leaps and bounds.

Just checked the price between 1/32 and 1/64 ply 1/32 is 2/3 the price so that could be a deciding factor.

I'm always amazed that they can actual make 1/64" ply - 'cos even with only 3 ply they are very thin plys

Alan

I was thinking the same 4:30am it was bothering me how they can make 3 ply at 1/64th, I could understand it on a metal that can be rolled to a desired thickness but wood a living thing 
I have done nothing today, cant make my mind up as to which direction to go  I'm thinking bottom wing centre section may be a god option + remove cabanes wash and paint.

Any little jobs help mate, I must say, it's lookin very nice 

I don't think its taking forever, it flying along. If you want to see forever then watch me at the moment.
As the centre section gets a lot of handing then 1/32 would seam a good idea , though 1/64 is very strong once it has a curve in it.
You are doing a first class job , stop running yourself down.
Never even gave a thought as to how they would make 1/64 ply.


Simon

Shaun, you want slow? - look at my Tripe and Storch threads

Looks PDG to me, keep it up.

Alan

Thanks guys but it really does feel slow though, I mean it's just stix glued together really but deciding what stix to use and which way to put them together that takes time.  I spend more time looking and building it in my head than I do using any tools 

I have the bottom wing about ready to go together, just need to rout out the excess weight then start gluing.  I have a nasty feeling I have done something wrong with the wing thickness today as I had my fluffy head on.......... it will probably show up what I have done wrong when it's to late 



Outer full length ribs are 1/8" birch ply  next rib in is also 1/8" birch (both awaiting lightning) and the centre 2 ribs are 1/8 lite ply.  I used ply for the strength on the wing joiner + the undercarriage will be pushing up into the ribs to.  I have a little messing about to do with the holes in the ribs as they are spaced differently than the top wing and I drilled them the same which means the inner holes need raising up 1/32", not an issue as when I block up between the spars they will be at the correct angle and act as tube joiner bearers.
I must get back to Slec and get some 1/32" ply as the bit I got is only 12" wide, I need it to be about 14"    also need to get some 1/8" and 3/16" balsa sheets.

Got to say it's looking very good Shaun. As for your comment about taking so long to decide which sticks to glue together, it's called designing. I would say you are not taking as long as some people building from a kit and you are designing as well. It's a prototype,a one off, some bits are going to take more thought than others. In the end it's what will make this special.

Peter,

Got to say it's looking very good Shaun. As for your comment about taking so long to decide which sticks to glue together, it's called designing. I would say you are not taking as long as some people building from a kit and you are designing as well. It's a prototype,a one off, some bits are going to take more thought than others. In the end it's what will make this special.

Peter,

Yep measure twice, cut once becomes...

Visualize 10 times, choose options five times, selct materials three times, measure twice and cut once, review three times. sleep overnight on it twice, optimise four times and then go round again!

Looking REALLY good Shaun. In the time you have taken to do this... I have cleaned two cars and mastic'ed the bath... You figure who is doing betterer....

  I keep making silly little mistakes, nothing I cant get over but annoying  

Working on bottom wing centre section its basically there, I will add the ply on it's top surface tomorrow then I can do the underside to fair it into the fuselage but it's really adding weight now    Top and bottom centre wing sections weigh about 6oz each and they are not covered in ply yet  

Wing to fuselage fairing and wing attachment has been added.  Loads of work here and again I have made a mistake, I will have to ad some covering land where the fairing meets the wing, not a big issue but another bit I had not thought of.

I lightened the ply as much as I could before putting it on the wing and it weighed about as much as my flatulence without loosing any rigidity, this section is bullet proof but does have to hold the wing on, undercarriage and outer wing panels so I suppose it should be a bit butch.

  Looking really good NFG, keep up the good work. Im still rubbing out pencil lines and we started at the same time!

Looking really good NFG, keep up the good work. Im still rubbing out pencil lines and we started at the same time!

I'm only redesigning a few bits and using a few alternate materials.  you are designing an aircraft from pictures and drawing up your own plan from scratch, that's gonna take time and I bet you will redesign parts of it as you build to  

I hope you do a  build thread on your unusual WW1 jobbie, it will look great with all the other dwarf patrol stuff, they seem to be on the increase!  I'm going to have to let my Flair 1/4 scale DR1 go now as I have no room in the hanger, Ebay me thinx  

I cut out 24 rib-lets this eve a la sandwich method and will lighten them tomorrow the same way 4 at a time.  I have just been through my stock and sorted out spars, trailing edge and rear spar materials, just a few more ribs to chop out and I can get a wing panel together however quite a bit different from the DB plan.  Obviously there is my wing joiner to make + my keyhole interplane strut fittings to make and fit.  I'm looking at the wing tips right now as the plan shows a very chunky tapered from the last rib type tip and I hope to be able to improve on this if only a little.

The full size tip tapers from the one from last rib, I may look at doing it that way, dunno yet.  



Nice thing with 4 wing panels is if I don't like what I have done after the 1st one I have only wasted 1/4 of the wings  

I'm not sure if I will laminate up wing tips from balsa, they will be very easy to damage being so thin and I don't have any ali tube or rod to make them up, perhaps laminate up 4 X 1/32" ply to cut out the profile then again 1/2" inside from there, should be quite stiff but light.  I can simulate under-camber by warping the tip for a bit of smoke and mirrors.

looks like the wing tapers from the 3rd rib in, not sure what to do now, I think I will dry fit the wing without a big taper and see what it looks like 1st.  Just finished cutting the final ribs and routing the riblets just got to cut the slots for spars now.



Oh and had a nasty twinge in the lower back so expect that to give out before the day is up 

Without completely redesigning the wing I will not be able to achieve the thin wing section of the full size so will for now go as per plan (ish) with the chunky tips. If I was to taper I cannot make my mind up whether to taper downward leaving the bottom flat.  The plan shows a taper from both bottom and top toward the centre at quite a sharp angle looking very fun-fly, I think the bottom spar should remain on the board and the top should go down to meet it.  Not being able to visualise anything today I will go as shown on the drawing I can always cut off the tip and remake it once I can see what it looks like, I need it in my hand to visualise it if you see what I mean.



After looking at that picture the taper up from the bottom will give the smoke and mirror bit allowing the tip to be under cambered giving the illusion the whole wing is under cambered.  It would just be nice to have the taper start a bit earlier 

Is this image of any use here?

Thanks for that Giles it is to a degree, all knowledge is good  .  That's a very nice drawing of a under cambered wing not needing the main spar lifting to simulate under camber, I will have to have my spar come up a bit, yours looks ok built as per plan when it's covered so I may just go with that.  I assume yours is not modified in section etc?

The wings on mine are as per the plan. They are more chunky than they should be, but the model does fly well so I'd be inclined to stick to the plan. Seeing as the wings can be detached you could always do two sets and see which is best. This is of course if you have nothing better to do!!!

One thing I would mention about the DB SE5. The plans I have are old, so things may have changed, but the design of the front of the fuselage is not at all like the real aircraft. yes this is not a 100%  scale model, but the front of the model carries a lot of the character of the aircraft. The problem is that the DB plans show the very front of the fuselage as the same top shape as the rest of the forward half of the fuselage, when infact the radiators, and top expansion tank are much more squared off than the round topped fuselage. I only discovered this when adding my radiators and wondering why there was so much fresh air behind them - caused because the top of fuselage is too rounded off.



You can see how the front of the fuselage before the engine compartment is very round topped - but the front section made up of the radiators is much more squared off.

Good point Giles, it should have a couple of slightly flattened areas.



At the moment I have not addressed that area, as I'm building a sport model I may g with the rounded top but make the rad a bit more scale like, I'm undecided yet, I'm kinda designing as I build 

I have been adding lightness with this tool, it's like a 1/2 size router just held in the metal vice held in the wood vice  



I was not fussy about how neat the routes were as they will not be seen till it hits the ground  

Riblets taped together 4 at a time for routing:



1/2 ribs screwed together ready for the band saw, yes I am agricultural  but if it works  



I have the starboard lower wing together but lots of work needed yet on it, a wingtip would be helpful + ailerons, inter plane fixings, servo mount etc etc etc.  I'm not sure whether to give it sheer webs, I think I may even though the DB one does not.  How flexible is that wing   the rigging will be doing a lot of work which is another reason for adding a tiny bit of warp strength with the webs although without anything to make it a "D" box it wont do much.





As I said much to add to the wing yet but at this stage it weighs 5 1/2oz which seems quite light to me 

Broken band saw blade stops play 

Broken band saw blade stops play 

  been there many times. Always happens at the wrong moment in time , usually on a Sunday for me when I can't get a new one till the following Saturday.. Always say I will keep a spare but never seam to get round to it.

Simon

Anyone have any pickies (3 view colored) of James McCudden's SE5a, I'm thinking that would be a good scheme to put on my effort.

Just a side view

Steve

Cheers Steve, that's the only picture I got already 

HERE is a link to a 5 min documentary on the SE5a if anyone is interested 

Hello norfolkngood

You have a PM.

Also I have found 3 pics of a model SE5 done in the scheme shown in the photo above.

1 each from either side rear 3/4, and 1 from rear.

New band saw blade arrived today and I have cut out all the ribs for the top wing.  Wire has been cut, bent and soldered for the undercarriage awaiting woodwork to be stuck on.  Also need to get material for the axle which i hoe to get when I go back to Slec for the materials I forgot last time.

Build quality has gone down a bit, mainly on the lightning holes as they wont be seen and I basically lost interest in cutting holes 

Undercarriage is coming on ok, it's not true scale and needs a wedge adding in the V once glued on and 1/32" ply goes on the face.





It's a bit scruffy right now but will all be sanded down and covered in Diatex then painted anyway.

Just noticed i forgot to add the cross bracing so have unsoldered the top forward joint and will bind in the cross brace there.  I would just put it on as it is but that would mean a larger lump by being bound twice.  what a numptie 

Broken band saw blade stops play 

I got my last ones from Axminster Tool Centre by mail order.  I always have spares and replace my stock as soon as I fit the last one.  One good thing about the Axminster blades is that they have instructions for coiling blades without kinking them ... something I've never managed on my own

I've not said much so far but I'm following this build with both interest and awe.  I love SE5a s and one day I'll get round to building a 1/4 scale one as a big sister to my little Flair version.

Geoff

Axminster is where I ordered from and got my 1st one from, got 2 this time 

Picked up the piano wire for the axle today and got it chopped up and wheels on.  Now I can epoxy the woodwork on and that's the undercart done.  Oh BTW I un-soldered the top bindings and popped on the 20swg cross bracing.

Tomorrow I ope to get the last wing made up, still undecided on what to do about wing tips, looks like I will take th easy way out right now and do them within a bit as per DB plan as I have seen others inc the BUSA one done with an acute taper.

Further to my post about the design of the DB scale SE5 and the shape of the front of the fuselage and the radiators I came across the following images in one of my SE5 books. You can see that the front of the aircraft is much more rounded than the previous picture I posted.

I don't know what causes these differences, although the four bladed prop one might have something to do with it.





So, my criticism of the DB kit might be unfounded. Personally I prefer the square front with the large vertical radiators.

Perhaps that's an early version pre radiator louvers which would give it a squarer appearance    Thanks for te input Giles, all knowledge is good 

I'm in the process of cutting the 1/32" ply for the top of the fuselage right now, it's a time consuming job 

All 4 wing panels are made although I still have to do the tips and block round the connecting tubes on the top wings.  ailerons still need making but I have no material to do the horns.  Perhaps a hunt on ebay for fiberglass sheet would be wise?

The last pieces of fixed ply (other than the bit over the gun) is still to be cut to fit and glued on and is temp taped in place.  It's looking quite large on it's wheels, the undercarriage needs finishing and attaching, again it's just temp clamped in place.  The Honda looks good in it's new home with plenty of room for the carb now I have made the new manifold for it.







I'm rather pleased with the way the wings hold their positions without rigging, obviously the rigging wires will be very functional but it will help whilst attaching all the rigging having the wings sitting in the correct place.

The different cowling and radiator shapes is purely down to different engine installations. 150hp Hisso, 200 hp geared Hisso, and the 200 hp Wolsley Viper. The Hisso cowlings covered the front and rear of the rocker covers, The Vipers rocker covers were left out in the breeze. The Vipers radiator was shuttered off in two banks, one either side of the prop shaft.

TOP BUILD matey

None too subtle is ya?!! If you know anyone going to Gaydon tomorrow I'll give them some glass sheet for your horns

Ian.

IIRC the Viper engine had the prop shaft come out of the fus lower than the Hisso engine........... as I had to drop my Honda down to the bottom to get it in mine must depict a Viper  

Ian I gotta say when I got the email report saying a post had been left on my build and it said from "idigbo" I got really nervous, getting replies from a real builder I was concerned what you may have said, many thanks for you kind comments, they may not be as kind if you saw it up close, it's not a Sir Red build  

Very kind offer also about the glass sheet but I don't know anyone going to Gaydon.  I was not actually hinting for free stuff, I'm happy to buy some but was unsure where to look, I guess ebay is as good a place as any   2mm or 1.5mm?

I'm going to call it a night and spend some time with SWMBO but I have just been steaming the ply plate to go over the gun which I have decided to do as just 1/2 gun for now.  Instruments and dash will also come later, I want to prove it flies 1st  

I think I will use a header/straight pipe only for exhaust as it's quiet, great for club field flying alone but with other Dwarf Patrol stuff I will never hear it.  I think it will exit in a suitable place to run a pipe along the fuz in scale position with luck    There is a lot of luck involved in anything I build  

Thas reet, thas is  

The Viper and direct drive Hisso shafts were lower down the radiator. The geared Hisso was further up.

Von Flapp is going to Gaydon so I have packed some glass sheet for him to pass on, no problemo

Cheers, Ian.