Topic: H9 81" P47 Refurb

Cheers mate, I have acces to a welding machine, but not an ali welding one, I'll suss a design and let you know 

Yeah , we have a few know all's there mate ! Ha ha ha mickey

Looking almost as nice as mine, Dearest Lord Mud of the Flap

What motor is going up front...?

Whatever you do, spoil yourself to a dummy motor from Frank Tiano and a set of retracts from Phil.....

Fancy a formation one day?

Neil

So after a brief think in the shed, heres what I'm thinking now 

This is what I got so far, not too bad in the colours it's in now, but when the olive drab is on, it'll stick out like a sore thumb.





You can see how much sticks out, there is quite alot of room inside the cowl at the top outer point of the exhaust,



I plan to extend the exhaust up and out and trim off the area that is sticky outey 

TBC,  posting more than a page at a time does my head in, jitters all over the place 

Shame to have that much silencer showing....do JE have anything that would suit??

So, I cut a paper template of the engine, and the cowl inner, here you can see I have marked the actual size of the silencer and the outer line of my proposed new shape. Hopefully I can just mod the one I got   Although it looks to be a really cheap cast, I assume I can weld to that  

Aye up Niel 

It's a Thor 45CDI in the snout, not my choice, I bought it complete second hand, now it's running well I'll keep it, although it was 1 deadstick from the bin earlier this year.

I already got a tiano dummy engine  Heavy aren't they 

I don't know about JE, if I get stuck I'll give em a call 

Hows yours doing  I'm up for a formation flight treacle, RCMF Flyin 2010 (assuming I have it done for then 

Yeah they are a bit, but I dremelled the Carp out of mine and mounted it on some lite ply, took loads out of it...then used my 2 sets of batteries to balance...

Still hasn't maidened!! 

Yeah they are a bit, but I dremelled the Carp out of mine and mounted it on some lite ply, took loads out of it...then used my 2 sets of batteries to balance...

Still hasn't maidened!! 

How can you have that there for so long and not fly it 
You forigners have some strange ways 

Thinkin out load..........

Can you not mount the engine 10/15 degree off the vertical (swing it 10/15 deg clockwise when viewed from the front)....this will rotate the muffler round slightly so it 'might' fit in as it is. This what Andrew did with his ZG45 (also side exhaust) in his 81" Yellow P-47....fits in a treat (though he did have to fit a 90 degree carb bend to keep the carb inside the other side of the cowl)

Phil

I haven't tried it Phil, I will though just in case  It looks to me that I won't be able to rotate it enough, but I might as well give it a try 

Thinkin out load..........

Can you not mount the engine 10/15 degree off the vertical (swing it 10/15 deg clockwise when viewed from the front)....this will rotate the muffler round slightly so it 'might' fit in as it is. This what Andrew did with his ZG45 (also side exhaust) in his 81" Yellow P-47....fits in a treat (though he did have to fit a 90 degree carb bend to keep the carb inside the other side of the cowl)

Phil

 That's not as silly an idea as Phil looks.....good call and you have plenty of meat on that firewall to achiev that.

How hasn't it flown? Well, my usual record is three trips to the field before any new plane flies! Trip one resulted in a complete re-work of the exhaust system, Trip two, ran the engine in but my retracts just wouldn't and trip three...welll...that will be the next one after fixing a shedload of airleaks and reworking a few of the mixes, as well as installing a tamjets 'blowdown' gear failsafe...triple thick condoms etc etc

oh...and the field for my P47 is 90 mins away...think I am gonna risk that on my local patch...no way pedro!!

I just spent the last 45mins taking the engine off  In fact I still haven't actually separated the engine from the firewall, rather I had to take the entire firewall off  Methinks business will have to resume on this tomorrow 

Now, wheres me hammer 

...that will be the next one after fixing a shedload of airleaks

What's leaking Neil?

What's leaking Neil?

Well...pretty much every joint I made  Soapy water was the key !

I noticed that the one of the speed adjusts is leaking all the time at the mo, and I need to put the shuttle in the middel to stop it losing pressure, but I think that could be simply because I have no wings on the fuz (lack of room!) and have just looped red to black on each side of the fuz to pressure check. Every (and I mean every) joint has been re-made, lock wired (belt and braces) and checked and all tubes are bubbly free now....

Tomorrow night is the final soak test with the wings on, i am expecting a better 'hold' and that the leak at the valve is just the normal pressure release associated with cycling.

Bit of video will follow if it all works out 

Neil

Are you using the CJM or Ultra Precision valve....can't remember which one I sent you?

If it's a CJM, then the o-ring on the leaking needle may need a little lubricant, if it's a U/P, the lock nut securing the small needle may be a bit loose.

This lopping red to black....is that the lines intended to go down the fuz for the tail wheel?.......if so, that may well be causing your valve leak as in effect, you have pressure acting on both sides of the system....when plumbed up as it should be in flight operation, you only have pressure in 1 side of the system at any one time......put it in both sides and you will get a leak via the spool.

Phil

Are you using the CJM or Ultra Precision valve....can't remember which one I sent you?

If it's a CJM, then the o-ring on the leaking needle may need a little lubricant, if it's a U/P, the lock nut securing the small needle may be a bit loose.

This lopping red to black....is that the lines intended to go down the fuz for the tail wheel?.......if so, that may well be causing your valve leak as in effect, you have pressure acting on both sides of the system....when plumbed up as it should be in flight operation, you only have pressure in 1 side of the system at any one time......put it in both sides and you will get a leak via the spool.

Phil

Its the UP valve, not the Century one.

Tailwheel is mechanical and your diagnosis was what I was trying to explain....evidently badly  will let you know.

Cheers

Neil

I got up even earlier this morning and had a look at the engine in the Fuz, If I rotated the engine I think the silencer would fit, BUT the spark plug would stick out quite alot the otherside, and the carb trumpet would exit higher up the cowl the other side (about 10 O'clock), so I think we'll have a go at a home made silencer, simple, and probably quite a bit heavier than the supplied, but quieter, and at least the weight is at the right end...

I took the engine to work, and we have been playing the exhaust game.

All from 1.25mm thick sheet so far, I will test fit it tonight before we run it together.

Good job your doing   hope it works out ok

Grumpy

Really love the way you've managed to weather it already to make it look rusty 

Incidentally, I have fixed all the leaks on my tubing, and now the she go up and the retracts she go down and up and down....in fact for 45 minutes last night, just enough to irritate 'er indoors  7 cycles from 100 psi "whack whack" every time, no reduction in pressure overnight in up or down position.

The trick? Soapy water!! without it, you'll never proof the joints. So from now on, absolutely square cuts to the tubing, lockwire and a pressure test on every joint as its made.....saves the bald head. and jeez they look good.

You gonna get a set of retracts from Fighteraces Mud?

Neil

LOL yer I paid extra for the 'rust' effect 

I'll have a chat with Phil at Gaydon about the uppy downey bits, I think trying to fathom out all the mods he did for yours will be the hardest bit, and then raising the £££ 

I think trying to fathom out all the mods he did for yours will be the hardest bit

I have a few photos of the 'final' set here.....with a few dims off Neil, I'm sure I can put the spec together to have another set made up quite easily................

I have a few photos of the 'final' set here.....with a few dims off Neil, I'm sure I can put the spec together to have another set made up quite easily................

 

Come on 'en Neil, tape out for the lads 

Phil i saw that you had a set of 3 views that you were gonna lend mud is there any chance that you could copy them for little me so i can use them on my p47 ? Thanks mickey

Already sent them to Mudders.................you're the 3rd to ask, so I'm happy to get them copied as soon as I get them back.

Phil

....you just caught me persuading another set into one of Phil's Valkyries...does wd40 affect the brakes 

Muddy... PM me your address, you will also need the door template that I drew out, i'll send it to you. It is major surgery on the wing, but man, when I look at the old set of weedy flamingo legs, it was worth the effort.

I will get the dimensions for you, but I remember they were a standard set, modified for the H9, three things that need to be done, 1. mill the cylinder clamp to allow the oleo to retract as far as possible and (2)Gently file off some of the locking cam's meat, to physically lock in up position (3) Tiger milled about a mill off the oute side of each offset strut to allow full enclosure. Don't worry Phil, second time is always easier 

Neil

Cheers phil . ;-) mickey

...does wd40 affect the brakes  

YES.......don't do it.

I had a brake jam 'on' at a show this year (flying off grass, so wasn't using them)...wanted to fly again, but axles was loctited in and I couldn't get it out to solve the jam.....applied a little WD to get me through the weekend.....they haven't worked properly since

1. mill the cylinder clamp to allow the oleo to retract as far as possible and (2)Gently file off some of the locking cam's meat, to physically lock in up position (3) Tiger milled about a mill off the oute side of each offset strut to allow full enclosure. Don't worry Phil, second time is always easier 

Neil

For Mat's info..................

As you know Neil, what was sent to me initially was a 'best' guess going on basic dims taken from your wing panel......I then did the fine turning etc.... at this end.

This won't happen this time.......we'll give CJ all of the necessary info to be able to get them right 1st time round, so there should be no need for any of the fine turning at this end.

Phil

Thanks guys, sounds like a plan 

Phil, the drawings turned up this morning, I haven't had a chance to look at them yet (left them at work  ) but I'll copy them tomorrow and bring em sunday

I have trial fitted the exhaust, seems ok so far...









I will exit a single 20mm ID pipe (the stock muffler has 2x10mm id pipes) from this corner at an angle and out of the air exit in the bottom of the cowl.

Brakes Jam??? sounds like a very cosford-ish thing Phil   I was joking about the WD40 !

Yeah Phil, Roger that. That's exactly what I was thinking, since you so elegantly fettled and fiddled, you effectively 'prototyped' so now CJM can probably do them straight away. The key dimension you will need off me is the thickness of the offset and I suppose thickness of the cylinder 'collar' at its narrowest point.

The only thing i would STRONGLY advise you to do Muddy, is (if you are doing an inner door) either go all air (phil has the rams and you'll need a sequencer) or use a spring to open and the wheel to close. I have 2 9g servos actuating mine. PAIN IN THE BUTT

Neil

p.s cor that silencer is better

I was just looking at that nasty blue prop hub and washer, I'll be needing a nice bling aluminum dome spinner nut on there, any ideas how one could be fitted   , the main prop bolt in threaded internally  



Mud

Tru Turn in the US will do them but OUCH OUCH probably around £80.

I got mine from Stuart Mackay, he does all sorts like that. He also does a good impression of a gruff middle aged man too  give him a try?

Thanks guys, sounds like a plan 

Phil, the drawings turned up this morning, I haven't had a chance to look at them yet (left them at work  ) but I'll copy them tomorrow and bring em sunday

You'll need a BIG copier....they are on 'A0' paper.............

Thanks Neil, but how the hell would it fit, all I can think is a bolt through the middle of the dome nut, into the tapped main prop bolt, this would give the nut a 'flat' finish at the tip, there must be a better way  

Brakes Jam??? sounds like a very cosford-ish thing Phil   I was joking about the WD40 !

NOPE....that was 100% finger trouble........note to self.....'don't try and take a jet off with the brakes' ON.....it can be done, but acceleration is a little slow !!

The 'jamming' episode happened at Duxford IIRC

You'll need a BIG copier....they are on 'A0' paper.............

KO, I can do A3 at work and jigsaw them together, or I may just happen to pass Staples tomoz   , they can copy them, I'll get some extras...

I've had domed 'nuts' made in the past with threaded steel inserts......one end if which is permanently loctited into the domed nut, there is then a plain shaft of 3/4" or so to go through the prop, then another threaded section to screw into the prop driver..............................last few I had made were done by Colin Smith (Who I think is who makes them for Stuart)

Phil