Topic: Warbirds hurricane build review

Hi Richard,
          So..................you've worked out my elaborate work shop is really the family dinning table I think the salt & pepper pots are the wife's Union Jack, as long as they stand she retains sovereignty and reminds me that my models are only visitors.
 Jack is still with us and still helping out, he likes to hoover the floor of any balsa i drop. I just have to be careful not to drop an important small part of the model, otherwise i have a long wait to get it back

All the best,
Walts 

 :( Hi thought I'd just commemerate the demise of my housebrick oops no a typo Warbirds Hurricanne and RCV 91. Fatal mistake of pulling a tight turn at under 100ft on Chobham Common this morning, gravity was still switched on...Photos are from last week showing recommended launch technique, no way would it do an RoG on our patch, so heave ho off the side of the hill & hope airspeed kicks in before you run out of air space. Once in the air it was OKish but the RCV91 was going 3/4 throttle all the time.
Nothing against Warbirds kits, got the La7 & it flies beautifully on an 80 f/s & Richard W was helpfull whenever I spoke to him but the Hurris just too heavy with half a ton of lead in the nose to get the CG anywhere near sensible.
Interestingly there was a YT Hurri with a 120 F/S up at Chobham this morning but that's got a much longer nose than the Warbirds Hurri seemed to fly OK but wasn't exactely teararsing around even on a 120 

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Hi Bugs,
     Commiserations on your Hurricane, It certainly looked good whilst it was flying! As a matter of impending interest did you weigh it before you flew it? I've got a feeling mine will end up heavier

Walts

Walts
Must admit I didn't weigh it but it was know as the "brick" on Chobham Common, had to pack several layers of lead ballast at the front of the cowling to get the CG right, it did do a RoG once when a tuffet of grass at the end of the strip gave it just the necessary bounce to get into the air. Funny I don't think it mentioned this issue in the RCME review article....
Bugs

Mine came out at 10.5Ibs.  Luckily I had a nice grass strip.  Flew lovely and scale like on an SC80FS, but really could of done with more power. I had to fly it at full throttle all the time (it was better on a 61 2 stroke).   It's retired for now, was planning on an RCV91CD, but ideally I think I need to copy some of Walts ideas and put the Hurri on a diet.  One day it will return to the sky.

I've just weighed the components of mine - dry weight is coming in at 9.5lb.  Good news is that it looks like balancing without any extra weight.    I'll try and use my cheap digital camera to take some snaps.   JimO

Sounding good JimO,
     It'll be nice to see your progress 
I intend getting back on mine once the GAD Lancaster is out the way, Never been able to concentrate on two things at once

Walts

Hi all,
     i can't believe it's been exactly 3 months since i last posted on this thread But i did build & fly the GAD Lancaster in the mean time so it wasn't wasted time
Any how I've managed to rekindle my interest and now want to get it finished! I've sprayed the three main camo colours with WBC paints. This really is a lovely drop of gear, once cured i wire wooled the whole airframe with 'oooo' gauge w/wool, used wet in soapy water, and it really gives the paint a worn look. I intend to try my hand at some weathering techniques on this one, and will be rubbing back to reveal some 'metal'...........i hope before adding a wash.
The canopy is just rested on at the mo' but i taped up the frame lines, then painted it first green then aluminum then green again, and have tried to give it a worn look with wire wool before removing the masking tape. Incedentally, this canopy was the rough test piece that Richard gave me, and was so fuzzy you couldn't see through it at all! So thanks to everyone for the tips given else where on using Johnsons floor wax to build up coats and get it reasonably clear
Next job is to make some paint masks for all the markings. I've ordered a couple of meters of Metamark masking vinyl thanks to reading the info posted by Lozza on the YT Hurri thread. Don't suppose she will send me a whole roll of the stuff by mistake like Lozza received though
Any how here's some pic's, i was quite pleased with the way some of the detail shows through the paint















Walts.

  ......NICE

Thanks Phil, As it could be awhile before i receive the Metamark film with our postal strike threatening to delay post around a week. It gives me chance to ask a question. In the past I've hand painted my roundels using a paint compass and filling in by brush, the results can be a bit lumpy and streaky if lots of coats are required to achieve coverage. So i intend to cut all the roundels & lettering from the Metamark film and spray on the markings using the WBC roundel paints i already have. Am i right in presuming i would lay on the outer circle mask and spray the outer colour first. Then when it's cured lay on a ring to cover it and spray the middle colour before covering that and spraying the red finally. Or is there a better way to go about it???

Thanks,
Walts

Thats the way I do it....................only down side if is you do put a blue down 1st, the white can take several coats, and you can end up with a slight ridge on the white edge. I did the Skyraider stars and bars this way, and the white covered well in (IIRC) about 3 coats over the insignia blue.......if you give the edges a light rub with a flatting pad once cured, it removed the ridge quite well, and gives good results. It's a lot more 'long winded' to mask each individual colour so you have no colour overlays....................each to their won really.

Phil

Thanks Phil,
 I'll give it a go when the film turns up. several sprayed coats has got to look better than several brushed coats

Walts

Wow, Amazing service from Metamark. Ordered Friday turned up thismorning currier service!



Another question though before i start. This is the aircraft i want to represent, but i can only find this one port side picture. Were the roundels at the same position either side of the Hurricane with the letters stagered? and the thing that is driving me crazy is every picture i seem to look at of other Hurricanes shows different size same type roundels on the upper and lower wing surfaces. I'd like to get this fairly right, so is there a standard size position for these, or was it really a matter of different size/position from sqd. to sqd.

 http://wp.scn.ru/en/ww2/f/79/9/2/56

Thanks,
Walts.

Walt

Just looked at my ref copy of AP 2656A covering 44/45 and the markings for a Day Fighter (Fighter Command) were:

Wing upper roundel Type I
Wing upper roundel Type II
Fuselage roundel Type III

Fus roundel dimensions were, in inches Red 12", White 16", Blue 32" and Yellow 36"

The Fus codes were generally
Port A/C letter, roundel, Sqn Code, Sbd: Sqn code, roundel, A/C Code
Code letters in Sky

I'll get the type I/II dimensions for you after lunch 

Steve

Thanks Steve, very useful info The other thing i wanted to know is are the roundels in the same position on each side of the fus. I know on the Lancaster they were staggered to accommodate the code letters. Also is there a specific distance in from the wing tip for the wing roundels, or is it just a matter of eying it up?

Thanks,
Walts

 Hi Walts,
                Very interested in the "Metamark" film...have you any links to it?
                 Hurri"s looking great 

  Cliff

Cliff, thanks mate,
   The Metamark film was first mentioned by Lozza on the YT Hurri thread. He asked for a sample and got a whole roll of the stuff for nowt! No such luck here, I got a few inches more than the 2m i paid for, although i did get a bit excited at the size of the box initially What i didn't count on was the currier costs! Should have bought a whole roll to make it worth it, still they might send normal post if you ask.

        http://www.metamark.co.uk/pages_sv/paintmask.htm

 I got the unsprocketed stuff as I'll make mine by hand, but they do a sprocketed one for computers too.

Walts   

Walt's it was easier to scan it than rewrite it, here's the info:







Seems it varies as to type of aircraft and aircraft role

Steve

Thanks again Steve, I'll have to read that a couple of times to get it to stick. You are a mine of information mate

Cheers,
Walts

Had a bit of a disaster trying to spray the fus roundel yellow, my fault. The rear fus was covered in Sig coverall which has quite an open weave, which i thought was well sealed with dope. But the yellow went on with lots of pit holes in it, and only got worse with another coat. I had the same problem when spraying the camo colours but only on the rear fus, i thought I'd managed to seal it all by rubbing back and re-coating as the second attempt at the camos went on well.
Basically i lost my bottle to carry on and have gone back to my old trusty paint compass, I'll still use the Metamark for code stencils though and brush them on (this seems to fill any holes in the weave better)
The paint compass, apart from giving a perfect circle also leaves a slight ridge to paint up to that can be wire wooled down after the paint has cured.



Walts

Walts

If the WBC isn't filling the weave texture when sprayed, try thickening the paint a little.........if its too thin, it won't be able to 'bridge' the pin hoes......thicken it and you should be fine.

Alternatively.....brush the 1st coat....let that dry, flat it back to remove what brush marks may be left, then spray as normal.

Phil

Thanks for the tips Phil, understand I am not suggesting the problem is anything to do with WBC paint, i love this stuff! It would have occurred with any paint, it was purely due to poor prep on my part. Had i have primed the rear fus the pin holes would either have been filled in or bought to light for attention prior to applying the top paint. But in a vain effort to save weight on the rear, I decided not to prime that part and am now paying the consequences.
On this one I'll have to continue now with the compass, as you can see I've already laid down the lines and have started filling in.
Thanks again,
Walts. 

I've now got all the markings painted on, Just got to let them harden a bit then flat them down.





Walts.

 

Looks spot on, I think painting the roundels etc is certainly the way to go.  Currently building up a Pica 1/6 Spitfire, I'll "borrow" some of your idea's! 

Hopefully the Hurri will fly as well as mine, if not better with the weight saving you made.  Mine is heavy, but has real presence in the air, only downside was the rather fast landings (and bent legs).  Other than that it was great.  I plan to have it out of retirement and back in the air soon.  It's hanging in the garage at the moment as I needed the radio\gear\engine for another project.  But it will be up there again soon enough.  Cant wait to see your Hurri in the air.

Next job is to make some paint masks for all the markings. I've ordered a couple of meters of Metamark masking vinyl thanks to reading the info posted by Lozza on the YT Hurri thread. Don't suppose she will send me a whole roll of the stuff by mistake like Lozza received though

Walts.

Walts what a fantastic job you've done looks superb as to the Metamark mask, was'nt a mistake on their part but the charm on my part  , thought i had allot of that till i asked for a sample of clear vinyl and got two rolls of varying grade each roll about 25m long by 1m wide, more charm I guess       , as too the blue mask did'nt last long though have bought plenty since

lozza

Hi Walt,

The Hurri looks PDG

Re: the pin holes - When you realised they were there, what you could've done was - get a small paint brush & just dip it in the paint & touch each pin hole. When the paint dried just give it a light rub down & then apply top coats - everything should then be perfect ::cc ::cc ::cc

TTFN,
Neil

Ah, that'll be it then Lozza...........what with me having the charm of a Bulldog

Steve thanks mate, and yes, you need to get your Hurri in the air again

I've been trying my hand at some weathering last couple of days. I wanted to try and keep it subtle so the effects don't show up with the camera too far away, hence the close ups. I scratched tiny edges away from the panels with a scalpel, wire wooled the whole airframe again quite vigorously and added a wash, which shows up much better on the lower surfaces. I bottled trying to do exhaust stains though Seen a couple of Hurricanes spoilt at the last minute with over done exhaust stains, looking at pictures they look really difficult to get anywhere near right anyhow! Like my wing root, not really happy with it but it will only get worse if i don't leave it alone now.
Looking at war time pic's, the underside was very dirty & streaky, the surface detail has really helped to catch the wash here, but tell me if you think this is over done so i can learn for the next one.
Cheers,
Walts















 
  

Hi Neil,
     You posted while i was uploading the pic's, Thanks for the tips it can all go in to the next effort

Walts.

Here's a couple off stand of pic's, as you can see the weathering doesn't really show up from this distance, but it does give the model a genrally grubby look compared to the pic's before the weathering was done.





  Next job is to get the exhaust stacks glued in and seal the whole airframe. I've seen mention of pepole using thinned varnish, Is this normal Ronseal type stuff? will it effect the paint, or does it need to be a water soluble type???

Walts 

I used PolyUrethane, thinned with a bit of white spirit.  Initial results were good, and I raved about it.  However, after some 20 flights there's some "pickles" showing...especially round the cowl and wing root which gets the brunt of it.  I did give it a few coats.  I'd also test it first to make sure it doesnt yellow the white on your roundels...

On my 190 I used Tuff Cote (2 part, solution and catalyst).  A bit of faffing about getting it mixed, but results so far are good.  Some 15 flights with the 190 and no signs of any paint coming off.  But then the exhaust routing is much better...

As a side note I used Flair Spectrum on the Hurri, and the 190 has cellulose paint.  Apparently the Flair stuff is fuel proof on its own... cough cough...just my experience.

Hi Walt,

Ronseal polyurethane matt varnish (make sure you get the oil based version & NOT the water based) I thin mine about 60/40 varnish/white spirits. Although Phil found some proper acrylic matt varnish paint - but I can't recall what it was called.

TTFN,
Neil

Hi Walt,

Ronseal polyurethane matt varnish (make sure you get the oil based version & NOT the water based) I thin mine about 60/40 varnish/white spirits. Although Phil found some proper acrylic matt varnish paint - but I can't recall what it was called.

TTFN,
Neil

The matt acrylic I used was on the Raider......it's an automotive basecoat solvent based acrylic made by (IIRC) 'Debear'................however, I have absolutely no idea if it's 'glo' proof.

You've used WBC on the rest of it.....why not consider WBC Satin Clear as your final top coat?

Phil

ps:- model's lookin fantastic.....

Hi all,
    Thanks for the replies, now i have a right pickle of a decision to make I have used Flair satin fuel proofer in the past and it gives excellent results appearance wise, and Matt's things down flatter than a matt paint (don't know why they call it satin) but i have read on here it is useless as a fuel proofer, unfortunately the models I've done with it haven't lasted long enough to find out
Tuff coat is an excellent fuel proofer but only comes in little bottles not suitable for spraying a whole airframe and i would be worried about what to thin it with to get it through the air brush anyhow.

I used J. Perkins 'fuel proofer', which appears to all intensive perposes to be normal varnish, to do the engine bay on the Black horse P47 and it pickled with in a few flights! Hence my question about Ronseal.
The only thing putting me off of using the WBC clear coat is the satin finish. Their paint is excellent, but took a fair bit of flatting down to get a nice worn flat look, so i don't really want to add any shine at all again to it
Oh well, I'll have to make a decision today on it.
Thanks,
Walts

Just another quick thought.............Phil, I remember my old man used to use a flatting agent he mixed in with some gloss paints to 'matt' them, can't remember who done it though. Do you know of one that might be suitable to use with the WBC satin clear coat to give a totally flat finish?

Walts.

Walts, it's a good few years since I've used any Tuffcote, but my recollection of it was that it was thin enough to spray as it comes, and that a little goes a long way, so one bottle (unless the current bottles are smaller than the ones they used 15-20 years ago) would be enough for quite a large model.

Dave S

O.K. Thanks Dave, I too haven't had any tufcoat around for some years, perhaps my recollection of size has diminished, I just remember the catalyst being in a tiny bottle, but i think your right, the main bottle was around an old style medicine size bottle. I'll be going out today then to try and pick some up

Walts

That's about the size I remember as well. I have a vague idea that it was 'reformulated' at some point. I do know that the original stuff was rather nasty when sprayed, certainly not something you want to inhale more than once.

Dave

Just another quick thought.............Phil, I remember my old man used to use a flatting agent he mixed in with some gloss paints to 'matt' them, can't remember who done it though. Do you know of one that might be suitable to use with the WBC satin clear coat to give a totally flat finish?

Walts.

Mmmm.....wasn't the old man who used a flatting agent??.......so sorry, can't help you there.

Have a word with Dennis (IL-2, Defiant etc...) & I think Richard (Hellcat, BT Hurricane etc...) both have used the satin on recent projects, so they'll be able to give an unbiased opinion (but from seeing models of theirs at Scampton earlier this year, I;d personally call it closer to matt than a true satin)

Also remember, the finish can be 'altered' depending on how it's applied................build up thickness is several light dust coats and you'll see a flatter finish than if you apply a dust coat, followed by a wet flow coat.

HTH

Phil

Whose "Old Man" added the flatting agent then, 
Walt thought it was his "Old Man" not yours, Phil
do your "Old Men" Know you refer to them as such, (Tsk, no respect these youngsters)

do your "Old Men" Know you refer to them as such, (Tsk, no respect these youngsters)

Don't worry Flightpack..............I suspect he'll be along shortly to publicly clip me round the ear

Thanks for the reply Phil, Think I'll go with the tufcoat on this one, as i feel the smaller scale of this model really needs to stay completely flat

Walts