Topic: A "what is good about Multiplex" thread - compared to spektrum

Hi Charlie

I know you already have one, I'm the bloke you got it off!  


P.S. Happy New Year! 

strangely enough i like the japanese programming over the mpx, it's friendly and does quickly exactly what i want..... but then i don't fly gliders or or have retracts anywhere

In that case you probably don't even need a computer TX at all 

In that case you probably don't even need a computer TX at all 

other than expo and a multi model memory, you are right... 

"what is good about Multiplex" thread - compared to spektrum?"

A while back I bought a Spektrum DX7 while getting bored waiting for Multiplex 2.4GHz.  Trying to program my CAP 10 with 4 servo wing into it reminded me what I had forgotten over the years - just how truly awful the Japanese software is.  So that is what is good about Multiplex compared to Spektrum: you get proper logical, clear software, not some God-forsaken, confused, jumbled, unstructured, mish-mash.

---

...a Spektrum DX7...how in heaven? If you had said Futaba so maybe I could forgive you, but...

and now a little offtopic, what happend to the Digifleet manufacturer? Was there a digital version of Digifleet radio?

/Ville

Digifleet?

Oh dear, things are really going downhill now......  

I think Digifleet ceased production for a couple of reasons Ville. Firstly, I think there were type approval issues with the transmitters they making. Secondly, I think they just got left behind and couldn't compete with the influx of foreign gear.

...a Spektrum DX7...how in heaven? If you had said Futaba so maybe I could forgive you, but...

and now a little offtopic, what happend to the Digifleet manufacturer? Was there a digital version of Digifleet radio?

Fleet got left in the dark ages with computer tx, when japanese and german tx had lcd screens and buttons on the front to program them, Fleet's computer tx required you to remove the back case and interpret flashing LEDs and move switches.  It was clear that could not last long in the modern world.

I stand by my comments on the spektrum.  To program a 2 aileron and 2 flap wing for my CAP 10 was bonkers whereas with a Multiplex it would have been easy.  To this day I still do not understand how one of the flap servos works, I had to randomly enable and disable things until the servo moved, I can't explain why the last change I made caused it to respond, it does not make sense, it should not be working.  The software architecture is awful.  If futaba is worse than this, how do they sell any at all?

I dare say if I picked up another brand of TX I would be in the same boat, but I programmed my 4 servo wing glider ok.
My DSX9 does evrtything I've asked of it so far. Although I have gotton around it now, I could have done with the 12ch TX 

Mud 

I think Digifleet ceased production for a couple of reasons Ville. Firstly, I think there were type approval issues with the transmitters they making. Secondly, I think they just got left behind and couldn't compete with the influx of foreign gear.

Oh please! Enough with the balls already!

There were never any type-approval issues with any fleet gear. Hardly surprising really, since the RF stage (the only bit affected by "type approval issues") was essentially the same for every fleet transmitter from the first 35MHz FM transmitter to the last.

Fleet closed down because it was essentially a one-man band. Derek Ollie was the designer, development chief, marketting chief, managing director and part-time counter-staff in the shop. By the time the computer radios started appearing Derek was getting on a bit and really wanted to retire - he couldn't find anyone interested in buying the business so there was no point in committing heavy investment to produce a high-end computer set. His sales volumes never justified serious investment, and when the sets went up-market they went into an area where the little guy can't compete with the big corporations.

He dabbled with a "low end" computer set to see if there was a market for it, but he didn't really have the interest to persue it. So he retired and shut the business down.

PDR

I dare say if I picked up another brand of TX I would be in the same boat, but I programmed my 4 servo wing glider ok.

I am quite used to their programming since it was JR I had before Multiplex.  The manual says for 2 aileron servos you must enable flaperon wing by holding down 2 buttons while switching on the tx the scroll through and find wing type and select flaperon.  OK, plug aileron servos into rx, sort of works because flap switch is sending signal, disable flap switch travels and 2 aileron servos work.  great.  now how do i get flap?  Flap has to be disabled for ailerons in flaperon wing to work!  Switch off and switch on again while holding down 2 buttons while standing on one leg pointing left at the moon, and set wing type back to off.  mix aileron to another channel and since i had read the manual before starting I had noted the small print that trims are only mixed in higher number mixers so i chose the highest mixer not mixer 1, would have been really frustrated if i had missed that little gem!  Now disable whatever is hard-wired into the second aileron channel to stop it from messing up the second aileron and at last i have 2 working ailerons that are independent from flaps.  Struggle with setting travels independently for both servos as the software is never clear if you are being offered control or channel numbers to alter.
Now for flaps, go back through silly rigmarole of switch off, switch on while doing freemasons handshake, switch on some other function to allow me to have flaps, back to normal programming and mix flap to a second channel, disable second channel, find flap system screen and set values, blah blah blah, lots of messing to and fro, second flap servo won't work.  try all sorts, end up changing anything to see if it works, it works if I re-enable the second channel function.  What?  I have to disable second channel travel for aileron but enable it for flap.  See what i mean, it randomly mixes up control data with channel data and doesn't tell you what is what.  According to the screens the second flap should not be moving, it is still controlled by its hard wired widget or something like that.  It's a confusing mess.

Once you have had multiplex, people very very rarely go back to the drivel of japanese software.  I used to think my JR was great, and then I programmed a Multiplex and the blinds fell from my eyes and Lo, I saw what a real programming architecture is like and Yeah, I foreswore not to be beguiled by the serpent of japanese software again.

You commited the usual error of a westerner handling asian systems. All programming steps must be preceded by a double clap to attract the attention of the revered ancestors, and then programming must be performed in a humble manner to show due respect for the aforementioned ancestors. Your hubris in assuming that you knew better than they on what should move and by how much was duly punished.

PDR

Is MPX (35mhz) compatible with JR receivers? 

Yes - a lot of the DLG chappies use Evo or Cockpit transmitters and the small JR synth receiver (the "77"?). I've never used them myself - all my receivers are either my old futaba ones or the Schulze ones I've been progressively replacing them with. Oh yes, and I still have and use a sub-micro Fleet receiver in some indoor models simply because it's a superb receiver.

PDR

Hello and good continuation of the new year!
Thank you guys for the Digifleet info.  Bought and owned a Digifleet one time. It went as on rails, never any problems. The only thing to watch out for was their PCM receiver that shut off at approximately: 4.1 V, and it never started on even if the voltage returned. If we knew that it was an excellent receiver.
I had it for many years, but eventually became redundant in favor of my new MPX 3010
Gave it away to a junior who would start flying, I think it is still used today.

/Ville

other than expo and a multi model memory, you are right... 

And if you make all your linkages mechanically matched you don't even need memories.................

See - we can uninvent the wheel eventually

May as well get rid of the lot and go control line 

May as well get rid of the lot and go control line 

Nah, just get a copy of The RM Propo Book

If you want your servo to go the other way, invert it. 

Blummin heck, NOW you tell me there's a book available   

Free flight it is 

Yes Mudflap, Fly Fishing Models by JR Halfwit.  Whom, incidentally, always took his faithful Collie dog Servo on his long walks in the country....... Old JR always observed the Country Code though, and  kept Servo on an extension lead at all times.

If only you could get your hands on one. My LMS was to by Horizon UK only yesterday that there are none and don't know when there will be any 

Looks like Multiplex 2.4g for me.

Charlie C

That's what they said for my Graupner MC24 when I had that, bought the DSX12 instead, then 2 months later out pops the 2.4 Spektrum module for the MC24. Just wait and i'm sure something will happen.

Steve

May as well get rid of the lot and go control line 

Who needs Control Line - Free Flight is perfectly viable...........

If I may give mt 2 penneth it is not 2.4 related but is Multiplex.
I am,by my own confession,a complete geek when it comes to programable things,and there came a time when I needed a tx with model memory as my fleet was getting bigger etc.
I had quite a few pointers with different sets and Bugsb offered me his newish Cockpit Sx at a very reasonable price and would send it back to Mike R under the recall.
Anyway,it came to me and I was full of trepidation about using it knowing what I am like,after sitting down and reading the manual for a day started playing and then started loading and programing models,and I found I could navigate through everything quite easily and now it is second nature,I would not be without it,does all I could ever want it to, and more
I know I had not been brainwashed by other manufacturers programs and may have been easier for me,but I can only say you need'nt be afraid of their sets i think you would be pleasantly surprised.
John

Pleasantly surprised could be said to be putting it mildly John. Some would be downright staggered.......

I was all set to switch to Multiplex IPD a few years ago, after quite a bit of research, and it looking like it might be a good solution to some  interference issues, with new radio gear, but I'm afraid the heavy handed evangelism put me off on the end.

So I switched to using JR synthesised receivers on 35mhz, which i have been very impressed with and ultimately made the switch to 2.4Ghz Spektrum, which I've yet to actually use.

"heavy handed evangelism"

Do tell 

"heavy handed evangelism"

Do tell 

Just read any thread that involves Multiplex, or, for that matter that doesn't initially involve Multiplex, in this forum and read on. The phenomenon will reveal itself - the thread at the top of this forum at the moment is a good example.

Coming back to a main topic.
The main difference between 2.4GHz Multiplex, Jeti and Weatronic  and all other systems is dual receiver. Not dual antenna, not satellite receiver - two receivers in one box. Just in case. Actually Weatronic is one step ahead - transmitter is also dual.
And, let not forget, all their receivers are programmable, and pretty powerful at that.

I believe some Spektrum receivers are two receivers in one box?  But definitely Weatronics is the only  dual transmitter, quite amazing. 

I don't think so - it would be advertised all over the creation. Satellite receivers - yes, but it is not the same. No diversity.

I think you must be right. 

The Spektrum AR7000 receiver I have LOOKS like two receivers in one box - there are two circuit boards, each with one aerial attached to it.  But now I'm thinking that isn't actually two receivers, because Spektrum describe that receiver as having two receivers, one internal plus the usual remote one.  So why the two aerials on the internal receiver?  I seem to recall something about time phasing being used on some Spektrum receivers, where one receiver listens to one aerial for a few microseconds, then the other aerial for a few microseconds, etc.   Is that right?  Can anyone comment on how Spektrum actually works?

Two aerials is quite normal in a full range receivers. One connected to an HF input another one to receiver's ground. It sounds strange but it is also an aerial. Now you have two to play with.

I believe some Spektrum receivers are two receivers in one box?  But definitely Weatronics is the only  dual transmitter, quite amazing. 

So you can grab the antenna and snap it off and the other Tx will keep your model aloft - cooooool 

J

Actually you cannot. Weatronic antennas are inside a box

Actually you cannot. Weatronic antennas are inside a box

I know, a sort of billboard sat on top of the Tx that looks totally naff.

J

Just read any thread that involves Multiplex, or, for that matter that doesn't initially involve Multiplex, in this forum and read on. The phenomenon will reveal itself - the thread at the top of this forum at the moment is a good example.

But with foundations Brian - with foundation - I think that we've all become so accustomed to Japanese RC equipment as to assume that must be the way things are done - believe me it's not - Graupner and Multiplex radio's are light years ahead of the programming game!

I believe some Spektrum receivers are two receivers in one box?  But definitely Weatronics is the only  dual transmitter, quite amazing. 

Weatronic are not the only manufacturer doing 2 Tx in one unit. I have been flying all year with the ACT 2.4 module in my p4000 and that has 2 Tx in the one module. The receivers also feature 2 complete Rx modules in the one package. Schulze are also now doing a range of "Dual tx" modules and receivers.

Incidentally the ACT and Schulze systems are compatible so I now have a choice of 2 manufacturers for receivers - like Weatronic, neither are cheap though  .

Dick

"heavy handed evangelism"

Do tell 

Multiplex is great. Use Multiplex or we'll send the lads round to sort you out.  

Nah - simply one or two (or even more) very enthusiastic Multiplex supporters.

I have tried to convert the sheepmeister but he just takes the mickey out of my tea tray.

 

Charlie c

I have the same trouble with Idigbo when he uses my MX3030 but when I point out that there'd be nowhere to mount the candelabra if I had a different transmitter he soon shuts up.

I haven't as yet converted to 2.4ghz but I guess I would if I flew at shows or even at a lot of fly-ins.  However I'd be very reluctant to discard my 3030 with it's programming and 99 model memories (I'll never use them all but it makes allocation so easy) so if/when I do it'll be with a replacement RF module in my current transmitter.  My main reservation about conversion is ending up with a single source for receivers and the cost implications.  With 35Mhz all non-PCM receivers are compatible with my transmitter ... and then there's IPD.

Interesting thread, though.

Geoff

I have the same trouble with Idigbo when he uses my MX3030 but when I point out that there'd be nowhere to mount the candelabra if I had a different transmitter he soon shuts up.

I haven't as yet converted to 2.4ghz but I guess I would if I flew at shows or even at a lot of fly-ins.  However I'd be very reluctant to discard my 3030 with it's programming and 99 model memories (I'll never use them all but it makes allocation so easy) so if/when I do it'll be with a replacement RF module in my current transmitter.  My main reservation about conversion is ending up with a single source for receivers and the cost implications.  With 35Mhz all non-PCM receivers are compatible with my transmitter ... and then there's IPD.

Interesting thread, though.

Geoff

You've no need to discard your 3030 - MPX do an M-Link switchable 2.4 Ghz module for it, so you get the best of both worlds - yet another MPX coup in the era of non modular 2.4 Jap TX's

I believe some Spektrum receivers are two receivers in one box?  But definitely Weatronics is the only  dual transmitter, quite amazing. 

Sorry, Not so. ACT have had their system with dual Tx module and Dual Rx's on separte 2.4 frequencies for over a year longer than Weatronics. I bought mine as soon as it was available and It is gradually equipping my whole glider and electric glider fleet. Solid as a rock and highly recommended.

Sorry, Not so. ACT have had their system with dual Tx module and Dual Rx's on separte 2.4 frequencies for over a year longer than Weatronics. I bought mine as soon as it was available and It is gradually equipping my whole glider and electric glider fleet. Solid as a rock and highly recommended.

And just how many times has the RF part of a transmitter failed? I really don't see the advantage here, the most likely part to fail surely are the mechanical items eg the sticks, what so good about dual Tx?

J