Topic: Is it time to change from 35Mhz to 2.4G???

I'm currently on 35MHz and currently using the JRPCM9X2 but thinking of changing the module to 2.4G?

A couple questions really:
- Has anyone had any issues with using the spectrum module?

- I have heard that if you buy the 9X2 with 2.4G, that this is in fact spectrum technology -is that true?? I was concerned of mixing spectrum with JR but apparently spectrum are JR??? I'm confused.

- Has anyone used 2.4 in an Erwin all carbon model? i recently put a 35Mhz PPM receiver in a model with carbon push rods and this was giving me some glitches, even with the aerial out side and hanging away from the model. will i have the same issue with 2.4G??

any advice / experience will be most helpful

Thanks gents

matt

Hi Matt

Like you I was using 35 MHz with a PCM9XII and all was fine. I was pondering about changing but the thought of the hassle and expense put me off it. Right up to the point where I lost my Skorpion due to trying to fly it on the wrong model memory. Vowing to make sure this would never happen again I made the instant decision to switch to 2.4GHz and I bought a DSX9, which uses the Spektrum system. I did consider the module option but the big drawback of this over the dedicated 2.4GHz DSX9 is that you do not get the (essential in my case) Model Match system that will not allow you to fly a model on the wrong memory. The other thing I did not like was the external wire from the module to the aerial. For sloping use this just seemed like an incident waiting to happen as sooner or later that wire would get caught on something and may get damaged.

I cant give an opinion on using 2.4GHz with an Erwin but I do have an all carbon Blade XL and I use a Spektrum AR6250 receiver in that with no problem at all. This RX has extra long (but shielded) antenna which allow the exposed part of the antenna to be situated outside of the fuselage. There is also a hold counter LED on the RX which shows if you've had flights when reception has been compromised.

Hope that's of some help.
Dave

Hi Matt,

Why not just go for this one.  No wire issues and solid by all accounts.

http://www.ripmax.com/item.asp?itemid=P-RM12-MX&Category=060-150

Suitable for the following transmitters;

JR 9303/9X/9X2/10S/10X
Graupner MX22

I've used every 2.4 Ghz system on the market (I think...) bar the Weatronic's - they all 'work' and the quicker all my models are on 2.4 the better!

Go for it - choose the system that suits your budget and radio - you'll be glad you did!

There is that saying that says 'Don't buy the 'A' model of anything.  Over the last couple of years, 2.4 users have done quite a bit of development in the field and there are more than a few divots to prove it.  The next stage of development might be to bring down prices or increase functionality, On board monitoring and all that.

2.4 will be the dominant system within a couple of years.  I am still on 35 for a few reasons, but the cost of changing many RX's is high on the list.  For the moment 35 is doing all that I want will complete reliability, so for the time being, I'll watch and wait.

Whatever works for you really,

stu k

And don't forget (skirmish) jjust because your on 2.4,choosing a wrong memory won't save your model.  Ant.

And don't forget (skirmish) jjust because your on 2.4,choosing a wrong memory won't save your model.  Ant.

Spektrum Model Match will not allow you to operate the wrong model. Therefore if you try and operate the wrong model it just will not work at all. From past experience most wrong model memory incidents occur because someone waggles the sticks and the model seems to work fine even though one or more controls may be reversed.

And don't forget (skirmish) jjust because your on 2.4,choosing a wrong memory won't save your model.  Ant.

As has been said, you can't choose the wrong memory with model match. There is one thing to bear in mind with that. I was on the verge of putting the same model on both my Spektrum Txs so that if I was lucky enough to ever get a good enough day to be nearing the low battery state on one Tx, I could switch to teh other - then the penny dropped - of course, you can't programme two Txs to work the same model. (unless, of course you go throught the re-binding process whenever you switch)
Mike

The Spektrum model match function does not apply to module systems only dedicated 2.4 Spektrum/JR TX's, same as the 2048 resolution.

Also Spektrum and JR are completely different companies. JR just use the Spektrum technology under liecence.

I'm a DSX9 user and very happy with it. Unless you want telemetry I personally think it is the best system due to the remote RX's and the fact Spectrum RX's are still noticably cheaper than Futaba, there is a better range of RX's and loadsof B'n'F options 

I'm currently on 35MHz and currently using the JRPCM9X2 but thinking of changing the module to 2.4G?

A couple questions really:
- Has anyone had any issues with using the spectrum module?

- I have heard that if you buy the 9X2 with 2.4G, that this is in fact spectrum technology -is that true?? I was concerned of mixing spectrum with JR but apparently spectrum are JR??? I'm confused.

- Has anyone used 2.4 in an Erwin all carbon model? i recently put a 35Mhz PPM receiver in a model with carbon push rods and this was giving me some glitches, even with the aerial out side and hanging away from the model. will i have the same issue with 2.4G??

any advice / experience will be most helpful

Thanks gents

matt

hey matt, try Adam Lambretta, I think he may have a nearly new 9x11 2.4 taht he wants to sell...

There is that saying that says 'Don't buy the 'A' model of anything.  Over the last couple of years, 2.4 users have done quite a bit of development in the field and there are more than a few divots to prove it.  The next stage of development might be to bring down prices or increase functionality, On board monitoring and all that.

2.4 will be the dominant system within a couple of years.  I am still on 35 for a few reasons, but the cost of changing many RX's is high on the list.  For the moment 35 is doing all that I want will complete reliability, so for the time being, I'll watch and wait.

Whatever works for you really,

stu k

Exactly my thoughts !  What works for me is 35Mhz.

35 is great if you fly alone - 

35 is great if you fly alone - 

This thread is in danger of going off topic

Remember 35 MHz used to be used at all shows and the nationals. There is no problem when used properly with all channels being used 

I think that you will find that people have managed to fly together, all on 35m for a while now !  

Of course the up side is that there is far less demand on that band as others have followed the herd.  

stu k

35 is great if you fly alone - 

Granted, but there is still that 1% that I fly with groups..

I moved from MPX p4000 on 35mHz to using Futaba 12FG on 2.4 at about this time last year. I fly at quite a few internationals some with 130+ pilots, so you can imagine the informal practice days before events are a nightmare for 35mhz (I got shot down a couple of times the previous year)

I much prefer futaba/robbe transmitters to my old MPX, I've never had a single issue on 2.4, I'd never dream of flying 35mhz again.

I speak to a lot of pilots and hear of a few with issues on spectrum, zero with issues on futaba (except the cost).... but the best feedback I hear is consistantly for the Jeti solution, which also includes telementry options.

Most of my models are full-carbon fuzelage, but there are no issues if poking the active part of the antenna out the fuz sides like "whiskers"

Well I have just gone and got myself a tm-8 for my fc28.
I don't yet have a receiver for it yet but when itturns up it will be going into my xit.
I have 4 mouldies, 2 with 2.4Ghz fuzz's and 2 with carbon fuzz's.
Once I know the module is sound I will get the receivers for the mouldies.
What scares me is wanting 2grands worth of plastics around the slopes and some guy just switching on.
It would never happen at a f3f event as the frquencies are controlled.
Worried about sport flying though.

I think Aeronaut flies a carbon Erwin with Spectrum 2.4

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I think Aeronaut flies a carbon Erwin with Spectrum 2.4

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yep he does with the satelites

Well I have just gone and got myself a tm-8 for my fc28.
I don't yet have a receiver for it yet but when itturns up it will be going into my xit.
I have 4 mouldies, 2 with 2.4Ghz fuzz's and 2 with carbon fuzz's.
Once I know the module is sound I will get the receivers for the mouldies.
What scares me is wanting 2grands worth of plastics around the slopes and some guy just switching on.
It would never happen at a f3f event as the frquencies are controlled.
Worried about sport flying though.

I have seen it happen but thankfully never to me in 20+ years at many, many different slopes.

I have been known to be stroppy and voicy if all flyers don't tag their frequency at the slope - just me really and most are supportive. It is a joy to see the new flyer arriving with one of those stubby , bent, 2.4 thingies on top of their Tx. I'll join them soon.

Cheers guys. Your advice has been great.

The reason that I'm thinking about changing is that there are some slopes that I've flown on in the past where people can be to lazy to walk where the wind actually is. There is def potential for them to fly from a nearer location causing the potential issue for shared frequency as you cant see each other from the two slopes...

cheers gents

Matt

Yep,

  I have a nice DSX9 that i want to sell, Been used about a dozen times, boxed, instructions, wall charger, as new

Whats it worth?

£320 ?

I was about to change, until I read about the possibility of the JR/Spektrum DSM system being stopped in 2011, though you would still be able to use it, and buy Rx's, not Tx's.

There's a thread in the Macgregor section, about the new Tx module.

So for the time being, I'm sticking with 35meg.

Yes,its time to change.I have been on 2.4g for over 2 yrs now and have never looked back.You will find all your models become more responsive as there is less lag in the system and there is NO possibility of being shot down.

I still cant believe that the greatest percentage of the competition guys in the midlands still use such an out dated system.Everyone is striving for the latest,fastest,responsive Kevlar/carbon/etc..mouldie and willing to spend a serious amount of money on the best they can afford,only to put a system in it which is susceptible to interference from outside sources,never mind the lone sloper who has chosen "his"hill with no consideration for others.
The piece of mind it gives is tremendous and i know its not a cheap alternative if you have 20 models but before buying the next model requiring hundreds of pounds of r/c gear to fit it out,stop and think..can i afford not to when the technology if there for me to complete a superb setup.

As long as you feather the aerials outside on a fully carbon ship there will be no issues.As i have said before,if its cheap you want ASSAN is probably the most respected of the cheap setups.They even do a "hack"module which fits inside you old radio and feeds of the buddy wires,thus converting you existing radio to 2.4.Its perfect as you keep all your memories/settings and don't have to learn a new radio over again.
I personally now use futaba FASST on a 12fg and its such a sweet combination,previously i used a 9zap with an ASSAN module in which also was a powerfull and reliable system.
I accept this is only my opinion however,How many people on this forum still use dial up to connect!
If the technology is there use it,you wont regret it..promise......Chris Traynor.

This thread is in danger of going off topic

Remember 35 MHz used to be used at all shows and the nationals. There is no problem when used properly with all channels being used 

There speaks a man whose not had his 175 mph model shot out of the sky on a major showline by a 'tosser' of a trader demonstrating his new line of eleccy helis in the marquee..................

I'd hate my models to become more responsive - that means I'd have to dial in a bunch of expo... .

As for your implication that a model running on 35mHz somehow falls short of a "superb setup".. well, I'll leave that for others....

I'd hate my models to become more responsive - that means I'd have to dial in a bunch of expo... .

As for your implication that a model running on 35mHz somehow falls short of a "superb setup".. well, I'll leave that for others....

OK,compliment a superb setup...hows that!

There speaks a man whose not had his 175 mph model shot out of the sky on a major showline by a 'tosser' of a trader demonstrating his new line of eleccy helis in the marquee..................

Can you prove that? There are very few traders that stupid 

I have competed at the nationals 4 times and flew at shows across the UK as part of the Ripmax team flying in slots with up to about 15 models and not once had a glitch. I know there were incidents with other pilot switching on and shooting a display model down, usually after the person responsible had been asked to change channel and forgotten. Seen that twice but apart from that it was very rare at well organised events.

2.4 is obviously safer from this respect but to say 35mhz is only any good if you fly on your own is nonesense.

I'd hate my models to become more responsive - that means I'd have to dial in a bunch of expo... .

As for your implication that a model running on 35mHz somehow falls short of a "superb setup".. well, I'll leave that for others....

When I switched to a 2.4 2048 system the addtional locked in feel I got actually meant I could reduce the expo needed to give a similar smoothness to my models 

I'm sure most people would use 2.4ghz if they were starting now but the obvious issue is cost and problems with carbon models.

OK,compliment a superb setup...hows that!

Look at the end of the day, I reckon if your'e asking - go for 2.4 .  The more the better...

What scares me is wanting 2grands worth of plastics around the slopes and some guy just switching on.
It would never happen at a f3f event as the frquencies are controlled.
Worried about sport flying though.

Are you really sure?
Yes, there's frequency control on the day but what about someone who's got the wrong crystals in his transmitter. Or someone who's dialled in the wrong frequency into his synth set?
What about when more than two competitors are using the same frequency? Have they switched the transmitter off when they return the peg?
Just a few possibilities that can still occur even when perfect frequency control is in place.

My 2p (from my slope column some time back)
A little dated now. I'm all on 2.4 for my gliders (that was expensive - over 50 receivers!) but I did sell quite a lot of the 35mhz ones to fund it and still fly 35 with my power stuff (we use allocated frequencies on our field), but overall 2.4 has been exceptional fun on the slope.
Anyway, this was back in August 09. (2 posts long btw.....)

Andy

There’s gonna be a revolution…..
Slope soaring has often been the hub of disdain amongst other site users even to the point where aeromodellers have been seen to physically square up to each other over the simultaneous presence of EPP foam and moulded carbon fibre in the same bit of air. The increasing amount of 2.4Ghz radio equipment in use on the slopes these days is beginning to contribute to a new revolution. A wave of ill feeling and inconsiderations that is leading to yet more slope-side animosity, and it is the 35Mhz user that is coming off worst!
Four times already this year I have been poised in the compression of a fantastic slope with a grands worth of moulded race machine held aloft ready to shred some air molecules, when I have spotted, often at considerable distance, another model in the air. Not flown from the ‘agreed’ launch point but rather from a car park or lay-by at the side of a road by a pilot sat on the bonnet while his missus and kids enjoy a picnic out of the boot. A flier who, after some considerable strolling on my part, has been revealed to be flying on 2.4Ghz and catching perhaps a casual chuck about on a family day trip, or a half hour sortie in his lunchtime or on the way home from work.
After more than one yomp across boggy moorland I have been greeted with “It’s alright mate, I’m on 2.4 gig” and a shrug of the shoulders as I come over all Victor Meldrew and stomp off in the other direction with flailing arms and grumpy utterances to check nobody has nicked my 35Mhz peg.
Well, I’ve had enough. Driven by other things (like my young son eventually needing his own radio gear) I had found myself swotting up on Spektrum equipment. As the ‘inventors’ and market leaders they seem to have the lions share of the shelf space in the local model shop and a good coupe of years development on anybody else. I have therefore availed myself of a Spektrum module to suit my Graupner MX22 transmitter and set about the long and arduous process of retro fitting foamies and other such non carbon bearing gliders. My plan was to fly most gliders on 2.4ghz so I really don’t need to worry about frequency clashes myself (perhaps even fly from some car park somewhere to try the other side of the tracks!) and swap to 35Mhz for the carbonated mouldies where shielding has been proven to be an issue.
Yep, I could make that work. 2.4 GHz for most of the stuff and a quick module swap for anything full of carbon. Then word hit the internet of Spektrum's new offerings – Carbon friendly receivers.

Intrigued I set about issuing the UK’s Spektrum distributors (Horizon Hobby UK) with a challenge to prove that their carbon friendly receivers (basically new receivers with coaxial extended aerials) were in fact the slopers answer to the carbon shielding issue and in due course I was the grateful recipient of a AR6250 6 channel receiver and a most excellent (if quite expensive) AR9300 9 channel receiver.

Okay, so what exactly is the problem. Well the presence of Carbon Fibre in a model can create a RF shielding effect that will significantly reduce radio range when using conventional receivers and antennas. Let me clarify that a little more as we’re not talking the odd carbon tow along a glass fuz here. Moreover good quality, carbon cloth in the lay up of the fuselage and in lesser cases the wings.
High performance glider guiders have known this for years and the time honoured traditional way to deal with this on 35Mhz has always been to get the antenna out of the fuselage as soon as possible, run it along to behind the wings and then let it dangle in the wind. A pulse decoding receiver (Multiplex IPD, Schulze etc.) is better than a standard PPM item, but you do need to get the aerial out of the fuz.
Now of course the problem (or benefit – depending on your viewpoint) is that Spektrum 2.4ghz receiver aerials are a fantastically small 31mm long. Not much scope for ‘getting them out of the fuselage’ there. The answer is to extend the antenna with fine coaxial cable to allow them to be run back to a point where they can exit the fuselage without interference from the nosecone and such like. Failure to realise this will earn you the nickname ‘Glitch’ in short order as one of the top young F3F racers in this country already knows! It is perhaps pertinent to note at this point that many manufacturers of high performance gliders are now making 2.4Ghz friendly versions of their established models featuring all glass radio bays and nosecones bereft of Carbon Fibre and I think this trend will eventually become the norm.

Both of the Spektrum ‘carbon fuselage’ receivers feature extended aerials. The 6 channel unit is simplicity itself, mimicking the outer case of the popular Spektrum 6100E park fly receiver but in this case being a full range Rx.

I only just noticed that there would be a wire trailing from the aerial if changing my JR 35mhz to 2.4 -cheers for spotting that. Theres potential there for disturbing the wire surely??? Thats a good deal that Adam is doing on the transmitter, but I cant afford that at the moment. I was only looking to buy the module only but not sure what I'm doing now

(cont'd).....

The 9300 is a little more elaborate and utilises satellite receivers which also have extended aerials to allow remote exiting of the fuselage.

In practice, for radios not featuring channel assignment, the 6 channel receiver will not be enough for a 6 servo glider as many use the ‘throttle’ channel as a mix only channel for CROW breaking and need a 7 channel receiver to operate correctly. The 9 channel RX of course being two channels more than required for most high performance gliders but very compact and easy to fit into the slimmest of fuselages. The need to have at least one satellite RX plugged in to the 9 channel unit as well (for it will not work without it) is in itself a little restrictive as space must also be found to accommodate the extra hardware. You might find that under the wing seat would be the ideal place for this, but the most discerning thing about the 9 channel Spektrum offering is the huge price tag. At around £140, I could have bought around three Multiplex Micro 7 Synthesised 35Mhz receivers! Come on Spektrum – You’ll surely have to do something about that one.

Anyway – to the fitting. I decided to bite the bullet and spurred by my satisfaction of the Spektrum receivers performances in my other models, fit the AR6250 into the rarest Unobtanium I own, the heavily carbonated Feldvebel Kestrel pitcheron. The AR9300 was destined for my full carbon McMeekin Falcon slope racer.

Finding room for the diminutive 6 channel outfit within the tight fuselage of the Kestrel was quite easy as the dimensions are so minor. I immediately discover a problem with the 9 channel receiver however – the extended aerials are not extended enough!
The more expensive receiver is supplied with many trimmings. Included within is an instructional DVD demonstrating just how to fit the receivers into your glider for optimum RF reception. However, ‘American’ spec gliders are used which in practice seem to house the receiver right up against the bulkhead to the rear of a slip on nose cone. Many of the top European carbon racing gliders have two tandem servos fitted immediately in front of the ‘bulkhead’ then the receiver bay just behind the battery area and the nose weight. This would rule out the stock receivers use in either my Falcon, Caldera or Herrig Freestyler. All of which are top quality, high performance race machines, as the aerials would not only have to reach past the receiver, but then two servos and the bulkhead before they could exit to the rear of the nosecone lip. The Freestyler and Caldera are right at the top of the game and very desirable pieces of equipment these days – Surely a tweak is required back at Spektrum?

Was I to be thwarted in my hour of need?
A telephone call to Horizon UK explaining the problem had me send the receiver (and another one I had purchased) back to them for ‘Modification’ to aerials 100mm longer than standard. Horizon went to great lengths to express that this was not going to be a standard modification that they would offer, but I once again expressed the opinion that the aerials should be longer as standard.
With them duly returned and the very tidy little faired outlets mounted into the fuselage sides of the Falcon, I could stick all the gear back in and chuck it and the Kestrel off the nearest big hill.

I’m happy to say that there has not been one single twitch on either model. The added ability to connect the Spektrum data logger to the 9 channel receiver to check lost receiver frames provides an easily accessible and very reassuring ‘check’ on the positions of the receivers and their respective RF reception which I will no doubt find comforting until I am completely at ease with flying this new technology. The lost frame rates have been extremely low – much lower than comparable flights on my jets and I’ll be purchasing a few more of these 9 channel outfits to get some more toys into the sky securely.
Spektrum could do with a look at that price though and also might want to turn their attention to a revised 7 channel receiver which will cover most of the glider pilots needs.
So, I’m happy - and sod it! The bloke up in the car park on the wrong part of the hill can yomp across to see me now instead! I’m rehearsing my very own smug grin.

Just time to relate to you a little relevant Muppet Of The Month story about the guy who began flying gliders on 2.4Ghz never having owned any radio gear before. Smashing his one and only model unceremoniously into the rocky front of the Great Orme, his companion offered him the use of another model so he didn’t have to leave the hill so early in the day. With gratitude oozing from every pore our Muppet chucked the nice little built up jobbie out over the sea and immediately into trouble with radio reception. Stuffing the model into the lower part of the rocky face and with bits still blowing back up the front of the cliff, he strolled, head down back to the car park where his confused mate sat enjoying a relaxing brew. Following an exchange of words there was a short debate as to the cause of the crash. The models owner said, “You did put up the transmitter aerial didn’t you?”

Doh!

I only just noticed that there would be a wire trailing from the aerial if changing my JR 35mhz to 2.4 -cheers for spotting that. Theres potential there for disturbing the wire surely??? Thats a good deal that Adam is doing on the transmitter, but I cant afford that at the moment. I was only looking to buy the module only but not sure what I'm doing now

Blimey Matt! You sneaked in quick there.

Spektrum now do another modules BTW. This time the aerial is attached to the module directly (no wire) - stop worrying, you're gonna do it sonner or later.

Andy

thanks for the article Slopetrashuk. I guess you've had no issues since writing that?

Nope - Not a one that couldn't be put down to me! 

I've been flying an Erwin with a 9X2 transmitter with a Spektrum module for a year or so.  Was flying it yesterday actually.  I have the 9300 receiver in the Erwin.  Totally faultless, perfect reception, no issues at all.  (I use the Spektrum flight log device to check, and the reception is awesome.) 

But the 9300 receiver is expensive.  Probably a 6250 would be fine, I use that in most of my other models and it's really good.