Topic: Motors

Hi
Looking at joining you flying e2K but one minor problemette has arisen. No-one seems to hold any stock of the motors
If not HobbyKing (who seem to be permanently out)then who else stocks these motors? Prefer in the UK if poss.
TIA

Gordon

Hi Gordon

Never dealt with them before but these guys are listing them 

I've bought from them via Ebay...Dispatch is pretty quick if ordered before 2-00pm.

Ditto

I have used them a few times and the srvice is fantastic.

Stu

Thanks chaps.
All ordered.

Gordon

Well Im NOT impressed with Falcon. Not even a little bit.
Cancelled my order, link they sent me to find out reason doesnt work.
Tried phoning them .........guess what, they dont answer the phone.
Tried e-mailing them....nuffink, de nada, zippo,zilch.

So what we have here right now is that the only motor acceptable to E2K is not actually available either in the UK or HK........ I can see why numbers dont grow very fast

So at the moment I'll not be ordering a kit until the motor availablity improves somewhat........

I got my motor from RC tronics you might try giving him a bell.

Also found this on E-bay
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/TURNIGY-SK35-36kv1400-470W-BRUSHLESS-OUTRUNNER

Gordon not sure the link works so try going to e-bay and entering item number :   250598982260

Cheers Roger  

Not a problem we ever envisaged as hobby king/city always had loads of them  

Gordon - I have a spare one here you can buy from me at cost  plus postage - send me a pm if interested

Its not ideal I know but as with anything new it  takes a while to sort out all the details  

Gordon not sure the link works so try going to e-bay and entering item number :   250598982260

Cut and paste the number and it works 

Its buy it now so they must have stock 

Ive been through the falcon site and placed an order and that went through alright, what isnt stated is stock availibility, hopefully ill have an answer back today.

Ive managed to speak to Hobbycity this morning and thiere expecting stock soon, aparentlly the whole warehouse has moved location and thrown everything out together with the chinease new year.
Sales of the Turnigy Aerodrive motor since we first apoved it has risen by 600% as the motor has also proved very succesfull in other areas as well as e2k.

I think this is the first time theres been a problem with stock on the motor, but there does seem to be a reason and hopefully it will resolve shortly, trade accounts are accepted by hobby city but they have a min order of $2000 dollars so thats gona put a few of dipping thiere hands in the pocket.

Most of us usually have a spare motor or two, its just a case of asking and something can usually be sorted fairlly quickly, some of the dutch guys have spares as well,  as the year goes on well order a few extras spare motors just in case but expect to purchase them at the uk price

cheers

Have taken the ebay option. Many thanks for the offer of motor.

Not a problem we ever envisaged as hobby king/city always had loads of them  

?? but lots of people warned E2K about this I recall - you were advised to have a selection of approved motors amongst other things.
Batteries is another area you should re-visit.  I see you've already deviated from the BMFA published rules on batteries from 30 to 35C now on the E2K website.  Which rules will you be running at the Nats?

but lots of people warned E2K about this I recall

How many times do we have to explain this? At the outset there was only one suitable motor full stop. Following on from that it was decided that to ensure fairness and cost effectiveness that a one motor class was the way forward. There was absolute awareness of the possible pitfalls by adopting this stance but were prepared, and still are, to face any problems head on as they arose.

Single engine solutions work in other formulas of racing so why not model flying? Besides you can't race a vauxhall engine in Formula Ford.

It is unfortunate that GeeW has thus far been able to source a motor but there are motors available in this country and the E2K lads are a friendly bunch who are always prepared to lend or sell their own equipment to solve any temporary glitch, which I believe this to be. 

The Nationals will be run to the BMFA rules as published in the BMFA Rulebook.

The problem that you allude to is not of E2K making, but one of the BMFA not publishing the rule books until later in the year.

Had you looked at the amendment state of the document that you refer to you would have found that the current published rules were dated 2009.

Hope this helps.

Speedd....... go find me a motor that is an exact equel, if you can prove its equel ill include it, we havent sat down as keyboard jockeys but actually got of our pervibials and spent a lot of time and money trying to find alternitives, ive got motors that would be ok if the turnigy motor was ever excluded, BUT their not equel.

If the limiter had been eccepted it would have been problem resolved, so to keep things equel it HAD to be a one motor class, we could have picked an expensive uk stocked one, but that would have taken it away from budget, and as ALL motors are imported the possible problem of a motor going out of stock is also just as equel, if you have a spare 2k i aint stopping you from being a stockist and get the motors at half price, but thats when most seem to go quite, so what would your solution have been speedo

Just to clarify for all, rule changes........... yes they can happen, and there can be many reasons, they can be amendments or a complete change, there is a process in place which gets followed, if we feel something needs to be changed, simply put we CAN, i can justify any change that has been done, well 1 in reality, not too bad  in 2 years, we accepted the sponsor and hats off to him for being the only one to bother, his hand was forsed as ours is, if something has to be changed half way through it gets done with some thought and not lightly and usually a saftey regard is top priority and if its not a forsed issue then it will wait untill the AGM,so again ill ask what was your solution.

Batteries........again we spent a lot of money and time researching batteries, capasity and c rating, no 1 i cant trust lables or suppliers re badged claims, no 2 i cant police c rating, no 3 i cant go by weight as between at least 5 main manufacturers i couldnt find consistant figure to work on.
The conclusion we got to was a batterie in the race was only working at about 20/25c, were still testing but the conclusion we came up with was that there was no advantage in running a 35c batterie against a 30c, the prop is the dictating factor, if the prop had been free choice then you could have proped up and got a benifit, im running the Turnigy 25c 1800s for this year and so far havent seen it any slower and the same rpm, if youre racing please attend the AGM and youll get your say on any rule change inc on the batterie front,

With regard to the motor as GeeW found out they CAN be soursed elsewhere and to date can lay my hand on at least 5, if you want one itll cost £24 plus postage.

Apologies about be direct and not aiming at any one idividuel intentionally but weve not been a bunch to sit on our rears and have put a lot of time money effort and thought into something that does work very well with in the requirments of the original concept, constructive critisism is always accepted, proposed solutions are even better but i think theres a few that do need to move away from the keyboard a little more often and take a breather

Many thanks

 Which rules will you be running at the Nats?

The published ones which include the rule about the contest directors discretion  

You'll never please all the people all the time. no one is saying e2k is perfect - but it is very similar in both speed and costs to the most popular form of pylon in the UK which is club 2000. As such i'm sure its popularity will grow over the coming years - and yes over this time changes will need to be made  

Talking of Club 2000, 2 out of the 3 most successful engines they use are no longer produced but no one is going on about them having got it all wrong  

youll also find the up to date rules on the web site www.e2kpylon.co.uk if you get stuck with anything pm

cheers

youll also find the up to date rules on the web site www.e2kpylon.co.uk if you get stuck with anything pm

cheers

Are there long words in them then 

"Disqualification"...

PDR

Bu@@er

I'll have to send a PM now 

you wont want my definition 

CrazyFrog and others
You done a fantastic job in getting this all going.  Since your article in the BMFA news a few people are looking at competing at club level and not your c2000 events.  This may well lead into joining your competitions but not for the moment. However, they will hit these hurdles and it'll potentially kill the initial enthusiasm.
The idea should be to make the class easy to participate - this includes getting equipment.
I don't think you should be overly concerned with cost.  How much is a competative engine for c2000?
The weakness in the rules is obviously the single motor and archaic rules around batteries.

On the batteries front I have 30C cells that will out perform 40C cells - this criteria is not a levelling factor, but it does help exclude participation and will get outdated with new technology very quickly as you have found.  To say there is no difference between 25C and 35C is totally incorrect and mis-leading.  If this was the case then why don't you remove this rule?

Motors. Firstly, I doubt you have any motors that will perform exactly the same.  There will be differences, this is why we use different props or tune them.  For your single motor class, if I was so inclined I could buy say 20 motors and then select the best one to use (same with LiPos).  Even in formula ford there are differences in engine performances.  So in order to help your quest in finding alternate motors why not tie the motor to the prop?  i.e. motor X needs a 8x4 and Y a 8x6. Then what you are really looking at is power.  on a side note measuring static power and rpm seemed to work for esoaring and attracted many competitors.

Of course the real answer is to use the energy limiter which Neu can provide with any pre-programmed energy limits - these problems then go away.  It'll still be cheaper than doing c2000.  You should seriously consider this.

Personally, I won't fly E2K while I can't reuse equipment (batteries/motors/props) that I already have.  Other people may have other opinions and prefer to be told what to run.

Speedd

On a completely personal basis you make a couple of points that I actually agree with. When we first started talking about e2k I was very much in favour of using a limiter. My personal choice would have been a power limiter rather than an energy limiter which penalises the less experienced racer. I spoke at length to an electronic engineer on this subject and it could have been done easily and cheaply

However in the discussions that followed it became apparent that the vast majority was (grammar )  very much against the idea. It was seen as an expense and a complication and had we insisted on it we would never even have got as far as coming up with the name e2k

Also on a personal basis i'm not 100% on the C rating rule either. Reason being its not enforceable. You cant test for it. You can only look at the label on the battery which could easily be wrong/altered/tampered with/ over stuck with velcro etc etc. Ive been involved in many types of racing over the years model and full size and part of it as i've seen it has always been the "interpretation" of the rules

I once raced grass track cars in a standard mini 1000 cc class - built my own engine using all the tricks I knew and reckonned i'd get away with   only to be absolutely trounced by a bunch of guys using proffesionally built "standard" motrs at around £1500 a pop (in the days when you could buy a gold seal unit from BL for about £300) Soon moved onto a much faster (and cheaper) modified class. The class remains today one of the most popular classes in the uk despite the fact that its main rule is totally unenforceable

If you have the time and money to purchase lots of different motors and props then test them all to get equivalent motor/ prop combinations please go ahead - let us have the results and as the class progresses we may be able to incorporate them into the rules  

You say at the start of your post we shouldn't worry about the cost of motors. You then go on to say you wont race e2k because you cant use the gear you've already got  . If Anyone wants to give e2k a try thyey're welcome to come and race initially with pretty much anything - they may not be allowed the cheap plastic trophy if they win (Unlikely if they've not done it before - probably beat me though  If that person enjoyed their day they may then decide its worth splashing aout around £25 for a couple of race legal motors  

No one is trying to say e2k is peferct yet - neither are any of the other pylon classes. But it does work, its fast, its inexpensive and most importantly ITS FUN  

Which to me is sort of the point really - unless you're absolutely desperate to fill your house with cheap plastic trophies

It's good to be able to have the discussion and get the feeling you're being listened to.

In terms of motor cost you must have misunderstood me - easy to do as it's not clear.
I have no desire to own a $20 motor.  IMO you get what you pay for - I understand this one seems to have lasted which is lucky I think.  But I do have loads of much more expensive motors and batteries collected over many years of flying leckie - which I could use but the rules say I can't.  I hear you say come along anyway you can fly but not compete.  If I did propose a different motor/prop which I could show was similar to the rules motor, it would probably win as I have flown before a few times but you would just say the expensive motor gave me an advantage and ban it.  So no point in going down that route.

When you discussed limiters in the past you had many non-competing contributors - My suggestion/recommendation is that you revisit this and don't be so quick to right it off.  Try it for yourselves or talk to F5D/F5B who actually use one in anger.  The beginner is disadvantaged in many ways mostly flying skill and forcing them to fly slower ain't such a bad thing in the end.  At least it's more likely to keep the model in one piece! and the flying safer.

With the energy limit (or power) then your rules become future proof and you won't need to revise them evry 6 months.  This has always been a problem with electrics in competitions.

Sp400 was a one motor pylon racing class- but at least they were available in all local model shops and from different manufacturers.  Had great fun trying the different variations to find the best of the bunch.  Eventually, technology overtook it, as brushless motors became the way to go and left the old speed 400  wallowing in the dust...

Your call...you're the guys flying it

It's good to be able to have the discussion and get the feeling you're being listened to.

In terms of motor cost you must have misunderstood me - easy to do as it's not clear.
I have no desire to own a $20 motor.  IMO you get what you pay for - I understand this one seems to have lasted which is lucky I think.  But I do have loads of much more expensive motors and batteries collected over many years of flying leckie - which I could use but the rules say I can't.  

 With all due respect speedd the system works fine now if you don't want to own a cheap motor to fly in e2k then in all honesty you don't really want to compete in e2k.
     Why fix something that ain't broke there is nothing really wrong with the way it's run at the moment to be honest.
        The whole idea of useing a cheap setup was newcomers would be prepared to spend a nominal amount on a setup which they would not really mind loosing if things went pear shaped. As far as I could see the power limiter system is just something not needed and to me will only really help those that can fly a tight circuit and would only hinder those that are beginning which is what e2k is a beginners class
NASA

with all best intentions the fairest way to sort something out is democraticlly, those that wanted to play a part made the effort to attend the test day, and the decisions were made by those that had an interest and had put some effort into it, as nick has previouslly said we never proffessed we were creating the ultimate class that was perfection,

we feel that what we have does work quite well, and see no reason to change it, if something arises then itll be dealt with, if not it will run its course and with racing under the belt any problems that get identified will be dealt with at an agm or any other proposals, democraticlly by those that are competing, as with any other class.

What we do feel is that we have created and extreamly fair and very good starting point.

ive been at the end of the sharp point for a while now and perhaps in a better situation than most on the feedback end, it ranges from great to some rediculous, to i wont do it because its not the same battery i already have in my kit, or to your case i wont own a $20 dollor motor, they look ugly, ............but the positive comments and i will include the europeans outweighs by quite a large margin.

Cheap, something thats accesible to majority, perhaps may not last as long, realistic.   lucky or not the motor works, the s/c works and some of the cheaper batteries work to and the turnigy ones have been as good any other brand so far, in this day and age more of us are having to be sensible with the pennies, some class's are unrealistic financially for the majority e2k is a realistic class for those that want to race electric at a sensible price and know that the they are as competitive as the next on paper,
e2k is what it is, those that put the effort into it will be the ones to decide the direction.

The power limiter is being worked on and being developed, it will be tried, well present the results at the end of the year and those that make the decisions dont wont it then the majority rules as does with all the class's, at present what i can gaurantee is that you get a plane and work within the rules youll be hard pushed to find a better setup than i have, and when we get on that start line ill know and youll know on paper we have an equel and fair chance, as too so will the beginner................look speedd your comments are appreciated and listened too and apolgies if the comments are personal but too many people are too quick to put something down and not look at the positives and give something a chance, the offer i make for yourself is i have a spare plane and a good one, come join us for a day and see how it works even just for the info

cheers

I've always thought that it was most unfair that I'm was never allowed to enter the Renault Megane racing classes with my Ford Focus - why should I have to buy the same gear as everyone else just to compete in one-car race classes?

 

PDR

Chaps,

The rules are fine, anyone that wishes to race WILL find a motor easy enough. Get concentrating on making meetings! Apart from 1 entry at the Nationals there hasn't been an e2k race since 10/05/09. Rules will allway work around competition. Competition will allways highlight issues in your rules.

The rules are fine, anyone that wishes to race WILL find a motor easy enough. Get concentrating on making meetings! Apart from 1 entry at the Nationals there hasn't been an e2k race since 10/05/09. Rules will allway work around competition. Competition will allways highlight issues in your rules.

Absolutely spot on.

Seems to me to be too much talk and not enough racing and as you quite rightly point out it is the racing that will ultimately improve the breed.

I have two models that would have been flying at the last meeting had it not been for other modelling commitments. My intention is to try for the next meeting although I know that I will still be very busy.

With effect from June my intention is to race at all the meetings and I have already booked the hotel for the Nats.

Hope to see some of you there.

Stu

They're BMFA rules now! 
In theory a majority vote at the RCPTC could change them 

You all just missed the point of the postings which was the very limited availability of your chosen motor, and batteries at this rating/capacity being less and less available as better ones are launched makes your class more exclusive than inclusive.  Not how good you all think the rules are at the moment or change for the sake of change because "someone" does not like them.

But I'll put my crystal ball away and let you lot continue to fight the fires as they happen.

Good luck! Have a good racing season.

They're BMFA rules now! 
In theory a majority vote at the RCPTC could change them 

You all just missed the point of the postings which was the very limited availability of your chosen motor, and batteries at this rating/capacity being less and less available as better ones are launched makes your class more exclusive than inclusive.  Not how good you all think the rules are at the moment or change for the sake of change because "someone" does not like them.

But I'll put my crystal ball away and let you lot continue to fight the fires as they happen.

Good luck! Have a good racing season.

this IS the first time the motor has been out of stock for any length of time and as for battery availiability that just simply is no issue there are plenty still availiable at the said capacity and as the guys say if it becomes a problem then that particular side of the rules will get changed at the AGM which IS no problem as far as i can see is it??
nasa

I'm glad it is US LOT that's missed the point, we thought it was you.

When are you lot going to stop talking about this class rather than flying it ?
Flying it will sort it out

I know why one never entered last weekend and one looks like he's waiting for a motor but what about the rest of you talkers ?

This is the 2nd year of the rules so there's been plenty of time to get hold of gear ? and lots of you took up the maxpoly deal last year but no flyers.


I doubt any one would be turned away from a race if they didn't have all the correct gear the first time so perhaps just go to the next one and have a laugh . Then you would have some experience to talk from .

Can one of the junta contact me ref WNW

You are all right and I am totally wrong sorry to have brought up the issue.

Thanks for the offer of a fly with your model CrazyFrog, but the unfriendly nature of your group has put me right off.

Mark no ones been unfreindly at all, its been an honest debate only, Paul sent you a pm

Lol I would suggest the nature if your posts speed depict a totally different scene from
the angle I've been reading it from to be honest.   I don't think it's the people here that are unfriendly at all. It seems from what I've read that someone has appeared from
nowhere and totally poohed what the guys have acheived in the past 18months   I'm not surprised of the defensive mode to be honest. Telling someone that what they've setup and acheived is shortsighted and is the wrong way of doing things normally would I expect get a defensive stance.
Nasa

You are all right and I am totally wrong sorry to have brought up the issue.

Thanks for the offer of a fly with your model CrazyFrog, but the unfriendly nature of your group has put me right off.

Well I dont know what to say really    I've been called many things in my life - usually deservedly    but never unfriendly. And i'm sure I can say that about the very vast majority of lads i've met through pylon racing and model flying in general.

To be fair we get a guy who we dont know who comes on here basically telling us we've got it all wrong. Do we tell him to bu@@er off as well we might - no we listen, we discuss and explain why, for the moment, we feel we should maintain the Status Quo (or Whatever you Want - erm sorry)

We then offer the chance to come and get involved with whatever equipment you already have or even borrow one of our race legal models.......

There's obviously a part of unfriendly i'm failing to comprehend 

All meant in a freindly way BTW 

Blimey, I feel guilty now having started this thread! 
Oh...and my motor finally showed up a couple of days back. Still waiting on a couple of other bits....
I'll be asking another question in a few days on how a pylon ab initio goes about training? Or are there only racing days?
Tin helmet and flak jacket (with extra flame protection) fitted.

Gordon

lol if Nicks flying then the flame proof suit could be advised (sorry Nick  ) there isnt any specified training days, its race practice and learn on the course, ive written some stuff up on the website that you should find usefull,       dont know what area of the country you are, im in Essex and sometimes get together with some other flyers for a little practice and trimming more than welcome to join in if youre around.

Practice on the day dosent really happen as the course is getting set up, just get used to flying the plane and get used to how it handles

any other questions just fire away

cheers