[Brian Cooper]

It was a rare treat to see all those old radios at the MAA "bash" at Flamborough --- it took me straight back to my childhood.. . 

I shall have to get my old RCS single channel radio converted to 2.4 and (re)join the fun. 

B.C.

[2.4G Shaun]

A few more names in the collection ....
ACE,ED,Emco,Ceto, Mainstream,OS,Fleet, Micron,CS,Reftec,World Engines, Multiplex,Graupner, Metz,Orbit,REP,Mattel,Testor,Remcon,Cotswold etc etc 

[Pup Cam]

That photograph of the "Road Show"  looks great Shaun - I just wanted to zoom in and look at each item!

Have you got a video of that old Matell set working that belonged to my good friend Bernard?   
If you have, I would like to forward a link to his family - they'd love to see it's gone to such a worthy cause, that's an amazing collection of historic gear you've got. 

Alan

[2.4G Shaun]

Hi Alan,
here you go mate......

Vintage Pulse Proportional ( Simpl Simul ) Model Radio Control Part 1

the mattel feature starts at 3.10 into the video.

Cheers,

Shaun

[Pup Cam]

Cheers Shaun, that's excellent

I will pass it on.

Alan

[no1dieselman]

Not quite vintage r/c, but from the same era, the 2012 Bowden Trophy was run in torrential rain and high winds yesterday. Not a bad effort for the free flight brigade.
I wrote off my new model on Saturday whilst checking its trim in windy conditions, an old faithful rescued from its 10 year hibernation in the loft managed a qualifying flight and 11th place for me.
Lets hope the weather is better for our do.

Doug

[AlexC]

Having completed the conversion of my RCS single channel transmitter to 2.4 I was kindly given 2 free flight models that were built by a late member of my club, Jim Nicol. The models are complete and unflown.

I don't what model this is or what the engine is. It is 34" wingspan and the engine looks a little like a Mills.



The other model I think is a Macap with what looks an ED Bee.



Getting the radio into these models will require a bit of surgery as they were built as free flight with solid bulkheads and formers. My hope is that I can get them converted in time for the fly-in in Pontefract.

[Phil_G]

The first looks to me like either a Vic Smeed 'Tomboy' or a Veron Cardinal - and the second a Madcap Alex.  Someone who knows for sure will be along soon!
All are ideal rudder-only conversions - drill the tailstock for a torque-rod, insert a long length of piano-wire through to the cabin, attach it to the 1/4 sq balsa that will be the torque-rod. Add another L shape to the servo end and pull the wire back taking the torque-rod with it.  I dont bend the end up to the rudder, I snip it and bind+solder on an L shape, this allows a final neutral adjustment with the soldering iron once everythings in place.
Servo is mounted vertically, bind & superglue a tube to the arm, arrange the arm so neutral is downwards. Drop the torque-rod L end into it, think of some means to retain it (I use a tiny rubber band).
Bind & solder the rear L, centre the servo using the s/c set, add the rudder hoop and finally adjust the soldered L for neutral.    Both the servo-arm tube and the tailstock bearing are sections of ear-bud.
Dont bother with elevator - more hassle, weight, & complexity and they dont really need one!
Bob Sherunkle   
Cheers
Phil

[AlexC]

Hi Phil,

Thanks for the photos, they help a lot.

[2.4G Shaun]

Hi Alex,

Remember  if you are short on time,you can always  use a traditional push rod linkage.. OS made an escapement with a cam on to allow this and also, all single channel actuators gave a push pull output.
Phils encoder emulates the action, so to get left rudder it would cycle through right first, and look authentic !

Cheers,

Shaun

[AlexC]

That's the radio installed in the Madcap, all seems to working fine. Really took me back installing 1/4" torque rods and making up the rudder loop wire. My mates in the club think I have finally lost it

Just the Veron Cardinal to do

[no1dieselman]

Good show Alex.

You have a pair of nice models there. Will you be at the fly in with them?

Doug

[bwf]

no1dieselman
Posts: 137
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Reply #245
Offline no1dieselman wrote Re: Under 50's need not apply... reviving 1960s radio control ! on June 04, 2012, 10:53:46 AM
Not quite vintage r/c, but from the same era, the 2012 Bowden Trophy was run in torrential rain and high winds yesterday. Not a bad effort for the free flight brigade.
I wrote off my new model on Saturday whilst checking its trim in windy conditions, an old faithful rescued from its 10 year hibernation in the loft managed a qualifying flight and 11th place for me.
Lets hope the weather is better for our do.


Hi Dieselman
Have you got any more pics of the 2012 Bowden
Put them on for us to have a look at if you have
Who carried off the silverware?
I was there, camera all water proofed up in its jacket but never found the
event. Told it had been cancelled

bwf

[AlexC]

Good show Alex.

You have a pair of nice models there. Will you be at the fly in with them?

Doug

Hi Doug,

That's the plan. Just hoping I can get some calm day to test fly them.
On that subject, what would be a starting point for setting the CofG for the Madcap and the Cardinal. Does the the normal 30% point apply to single channel/free flight models?

[no1dieselman]

That is an unusual point.
As free flight models they have a rearward c of g and Tomboys etc fly OK like this when converted to R/C.

They can be trimmed ok with a more normal 30% as long as they are not overpowered. Its a good starting point to work from.

Doug

[Terry Clarke]

I have an electric powered three channel Cardinal ( I know I shouldn't admit that here but I'm 17 years over 50) which flies perfectly well with the cg 3.25 inches back from the leading edge - about 60%. Very stable and will even loop after a long dive. I built my first Cardinal 54 years ago, Mills powered.

[AlexC]

Clearly I have a lot to learn about trimming free flight models
A 60% CG on the models I normally fly would render them unstable in the extreme.

Would the Madcap CG be in the same range as your Cardinal?

[2.4G Shaun]

It's not quite that simple re the C of G.. It's position is dependant on whether the tailplane is a lifting or symmetrical, the section of the wing can also influence this, as can the relationship of  incidence set up between wing and tailplane, as can the engine power / thrust line settings as Doug mentioned.
Also free flight  sport  cabin style models were  usually designed to fly near the stall so they would usually have a rearward C of G.  Some Pylon models had very rearward balance points. As soon as you try turning a cabin / pylon model with this set up they can become very unhappy, spinny bunnies.
I would suggest good  old school test glides starting with about  25% C of G and try to achieve a steady rate of descent, a little faster than you would trim for freeflight.
Thats what I have always done when building and converting vintage models for radio.. It's worked for me..

Cheers,
Shaun

[Terry Clarke]

Shaun is right about tailplane section. The Cardinal has a large lifting section tailplane which is trying to push down the nose. My first attempts to make an rc Cardinal were with a conventional cg and not very successful.
I also have a Ben Buckle Junior 60 and Playboy Senior. The Playboy (with large lifting tail) needed loads of up elevator to fly with the cg shown on the plan. I removed lead (about 8 ounces) until I no longer needed any elevator trim and now it's fine. The Junior 60 with a flat tailplane balances pretty much where you would expect.

[AlexC]

Thanks for all the tips..much appreciated.

[AlexC]

I have finished the radio installation on both models, all I need now is some decent weather to test glide and test fly them.

[2.4G Shaun]

Just got a new recruit to the single surface fold.. I convinced my mate to convert his extremely nice , tissued,free flight Vic Smeed Poppet today.. Only took about 90mins.... 10g electric motor, 6a esc, single 9g servo, 350mAh 2S lipo.. thinking about it.. pretty much the same as Phils 
He will be joining us on July 1st. As he is a 1/4 scale WW2 warbird man, this will be a new experience for him.. poor bloke no flaps and retracts and the drone of an 80cc twin   

Shaun

[Phil_G]

A couple of pages back we saw Shauns antique ex-DB pulse propo model fitted with an Adams Baby magnetic actuator and my onboard pulser, controlled by the rudder channel of Shauns conventional Spekky DX7 2.4g radio.
I've made a few pulsers now, bug style,  and although they're not as neat as I'd like, there's a worthwhile weight saving doing it this way and now I've settled on a method, the result is neat enough. Construction is a bit fiddly, but we need it to be kept small & light and I though I'd show how its made.  This particular one is for Doug:
The circuitry is just 2 active components, a pic and a bridge, both 8-pin chips, so I start with a 16 pin low-profile DIL socket which will hold both chips.  Here's the layout looking at the underside of the DIL socket:


Unused pins are snipped, and an SMT 100uF soldered between the power rails on Pic pins 1 & 8.
The pic output and the two bridge inputs are folded down flat and connected with soldered kynar wire:




A strip of 1/4" by 3/4" card lays over these pins for insulation, then the input lead is added next, above the card. Pos, neg and the servo signal:


On top of that the output connections are added, laying all the wires neatly along the module:


Thats the wiring finished, so time to plug in the chips. Note that the marker pips are opposite each other - the H-bridge chip is upside down wrt the pic:


Heatshrink the lot to finish it off, the result is a 5 or 6 gramme module capable of driving 1.5 amps at a varying duty cycle proportional to the rudder channel input:


Heres a brief clip of it working, unfortunately the youtube frame rate cant keep up with the movement but in practise its very smooth and precise. In fact you're better off just listening to the actuator & ignoring the video!:
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oMpiyGNtjKE" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oMpiyGNtjKE</a>

There are two ways to connect the actuator and its probably best to experiment to see which gives the most torque. One way is with both actuator coils in series (ignoring the centre-tap) and driven in opposition by the bridge:


The other is to take the actuator centre-tap to battery pos and have the bridge alternately ground each coil:


So there you go. 1960s pulse proportional in 2012, and on 2.4g! 
Cheers
Phil

[Phil_G]

Forgot to say, Shaun will have the pulse-propo model at Ponty tomorrow,  hopefully flying, all being well!
Cheers
Phil

[no1dieselman]

Hi Phil,
Another great project with a first class write up.

Found a couple of bits of stuff you might be interested in - will show you them tomorrow.  Hows the weather, chucked it down this afternoon here.

Doug

[igull]

Hi all
I'm in the middle of building a couple of lasercut s/c Frog Tutors and I'm struggling for wheels. I have a pair of 1.5" streamlined keilkraft rubber items, but I'd really like to build my own - does anyone have a good method of building this style of wheel? I can't remember if the original tutors had hard plastic or the rubber variety - I realise it's a bit anal, but I'd like the things to look original 
Looking forward to getting them flown, I have one with a frog 80 and the other with a blue wonder.
TIA
Cheers
Neil

[Phil_G]

Had a nice email from one of the Canadian S/C lads:

Hi Phil:
Just to show you that the gear does work and I can still fly with a button.
I got the necessary calm air just before sunset and put in four 2-3 minute flights without a hitch. It just needed a little rudder adjustment after the first flight. I even managed a loop with kick up elevator and some reasonable landings.
I found Compound mode easier than Sequential but will persist with both.
Very crude video shot with iPhone in left hand and transmitter in right (except when launching).
Next time I’ll take my wife and a real camera and get some decent shots. But great fun! Thanks again.
Nigel Chippindale
Ottawa ON

Single Channel RC on Vimeo

Cool eh?
Cheers
Phil

[Phil_G]

A couple of new sets I made up this week, both using Frsky DIY. The first one is quite conventional, its a Macgregor MR200.  This particular one is quite nice & clean, & all the patterning is intact:  (click to enlarge)



And the second, I wanted something small, but propo, and I'd like to find an Adams magnetic actuator for this one to make a 2.4g pulse-proportional outfit. I would have liked it smaller but made do with a case from my junk box. The Futaba 7C and OS Pixie are there just to give some scale:





The single-axis stick came from an old 2ch car radio, and it runs off a 2S 450mah lipo. Originally it was to be a strictly rudder-only set for S/C gliders, but in the end I added the 'plus one' button on the stick unit which I suppose makes it more versatile.  The label is a bit naff. I'd love to find a way of making a proper anodised logo plate, like the ones sported by old Staveleys, Skyleaders and Krafts etc.



Cheers
Phil

[ For my own interest  -  19553 views at the time of posting]

[igull]

Hi All
Thought I'd post a few pix of my laser cut Frog Tutor of 1966 vintage. My first Frog Tutor had a Frog 80, tinytone homebuilt rx and fred rising escapement - complete disaster at first, but eventually tamed it with lots of right sidethrust ! Strangely, my new one was just the same  I have a real Frog 80 version, but this one is 'diesel-electric' - 'Blue Wonder' 1300Kw motor, Black Mantis 12A ESC and a 1000mAh 2S LiPo based on Phil's recommendation - works a treat (except that it was a wee bit overpowered at first - at full power kept on looping  )
Radio is Phils s/c PIC encoder with an frsky hack module and 4ch rx - works exceptionally well and 100% reliable (unlike my original oxo box valve tx  ) I'm in the lucky position of having a homebuilt laser, so doing projects like this is a lot of fun. Dummy Frog 80 motor is just laser cut balsa.
Cheers
Neil

[Phil_G]

Exquisite covering job Neil, looks suberb, love the cut-out flashes on the fus sides. Too good to fly! The dummy engine is stunning, how about a lolly-stick poking into the prop for an authentic diesel sound?   

...works a treat (except that it was a wee bit overpowered at first - at full power kept on looping  )

Remember the ancient Chinese proverb Neil...

If theres no video, it didnt happen....  ! 

Cheese
Phil

[igull]

Thanks for the kind words ! I did cheat with the tissue on the sides and wings  'tho, I cut that on the laser too - as you do 

Attached a couple of dodgy videos to prove that it flies - I had to try and drag the iphone from my pocket, switch it on, find the camera app, point it at the model and try to keep it in frame while flying - couldn't do that with multi channel  A video of that might have been more interesting LOL - I've removed the sweary words from the vid.

I'm sorry I didn't get the looping part, but that was the first flight and it broke the prop, so I went home - it was embarassing anyway 

Cheers

Neil

Frog Tutor A

Frog Tutor B

[ronstv]

Hi,
Just finished a 2.4ghz single channel button transmitter this week.
Case is an eddistone cast aluminium available from maplins, frsky hack module and Phil-g's pic encoder.
Used 3 separate LEDs for status lights.
Flight tested a few days ago in westwings swallow See video.
Very chuffed with the results and it's a real pleasure flying single channel button. Definitely more exciting than the proportional stuff. Just need to get my head around 1 for right 2 for left but it will come.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5WTIr6yYjc&feature=youtube_gdata_player

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f1kTsMdFkpw&feature=youtube_gdata_player

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_snkOej9mA&feature=youtube_gdata_player

[ronstv]

First video is demo of transmitter
Second video is maiden flight of set.
Third is part 2 of maiden flight.
Was a but blustery but ok

[ronstv]

Photo of inside the incomplete transmitter
Phil I removed the LEDs and soldered some breakaway molex headers in their place. You can just see the JR plugs from the LEDs going in.

[igull]

Really nice job, the swallow looks great on the slope too !

I don't know why, but s/c just seems more relaxing than proportional (or should I say 'multi' or 'propo' here    )

I'ts certainly put a lot of fun back in my modelling at least !

What really amazes me is you wearing a tee shirt on the slope 'though - we need heated suits up here 

Cheers

Neil

[ronstv]

Yeah thanks for that Igull. I know I'm in a tshirt but it was actually quite warm. Think about 22degrees up on Blakey ridge north yorks.
I know what you mean about been more relaxing and those transmitters are just so much easier to hold. Only one hand needed. Great if your walking while flying on rough ground.

[mart49]

Very nice transmitter Igull, clearly I'm going to have to go 2.4 on single channel, my 27Mhz gear is fine but the Pirelli rubber is getting hard to find for the escapement . By the way this vintage R/C is getting out of hand this week on Ebay a Macgregor Galloping Ghost system, Tx,Rx battery boxes and Rand LR3 actuator sold for £255!! Thats the price of a decent 2.4 propo set

[Phil_G]

I had a tip-off from Neil about some microswitch buttons he'd found, ideal for S/C transmitters.
I ordered a few and they arrived today - they're suberb, lovely clicky action and much smaller than the huge Burgess/Honeywell buttons and so they take up much less depth under the front panel.  Mounts through a standard 6mm hole.  Spot on 
Heres an ebay example, click here, or if that auction has expired search for DS428 or "DS-428". 
Thanks Neil!
Phil

[Tobe]

Stripes on a zebra…
Just as basic info….My Dad is in his early 80’s and blessed to be still going strong and as playful as ever.
 My Dad is the one whom introduced me to this amazing hobby and he did it quite early as I can’t remember a time without model airplane of some kind and I’m now in my early 50’s. To what I have been told I have “terrorized” his shop from the day I started walking!
Most of the time in my youth I had to inherit is old stuff for my project but as I turned 7 I got my own first radio an Ace Pulse Commander Single Channel and from that day in May ‘68 I have been flying radio controlled airplane. That transmitter case is now home of Phil_G Digimac 1+1 emulator and used in connection with an Adam actuator and the onboard pulser…but that will be another story to tell later.
Today I can probably say that there are no kind of models I haven’t built and flown from the smallest indoor to 40% size IMAC powered with all kind of propulsion as CO2, rubber band, Coxes and diesels, nitro and gas engines, electric motors tiny as a feather to brick sizes and turbines.
Radio wise I have flown GG, Reed and proportional…but never escapement until now.
I sure knew what escarpment was/are as there are quite many in my nostalgia box not least due of my Dad whom has been flying R/C since 1949. The reason I’m flying escapement now lies in that Phil_G convinced me to also get one of his S/C emulators on top of other goodies I wanted from him.
As the electronic was completed quickly a Guided Mite was built on the side for the purpose of learning to fly S/C something as mentioned earlier I have never done!
Due of my lack of knowledge in the matter I went to see my parents and for this occasion Dad was more interesting to see. He looked carefully at what I had with me and while shaking his head telling me that today there are more reliable equipment like modern servos and 2,4 GHz then that old piece of .... but sure was fun to fly in those occasion it worked properly! At this point I had to open the lid….somebody quickly changed opinion and with a big smile on its face we were heading to the flying field missing Moms Five O’ clock tea and later almost missing dinner due of our late arrival back home.
I flew first the Mite and was quite satisfied of my achievement until Dad said he wanted to try. It has to be said that during my flight Dad lectured me to such extent that I almost asked him to…despite I realized that his comment were always ahead of the situation.
There is no way that my Dad had flown escapement for the last  60 years thus I was wondering how he would manage, sure Dad still build and fly model airplane but most of his planes and projects are of the more gentle kind giving a lot of forgiveness and time to think! …but here we go after replacing the battery in the Mite I hand over the transmitter to Dad that after a couple of pushes on the bottom gives me the sign to launch the plane….
What happens then made me astonished as the “Old Man” flew that little plane around smooth as silk with a loops and rolls giggling like a Kid. More flight followed both in Sequential as Compound mode as he was telling me all the secrets of S/C and remembered me that it’s like riding a bicycle once learned never forgotten!
As we were heading home by car I realize that my Dad was keeping an eye or better both on the box where I carried “My Stuff” as he was calling up on his cell one of his best flying buddies known since  the fifties, the good old days After ending the call he basically confiscated my radio with the S/C emulator and ordered a second one for his buddy and no objection from my side would have changed his mind but he agreed that I could keep the Mite if I would take out the electronic as there are plenty of better planes to fly by escapement!
As they say it’s hard to wipe out the stripes on a zebra as also to teach an old dog new trick!
I wonder what’s going to happen as I bring my Reed Emulator next time I will pass by and see him and Mom!
Last but not least I would like to take the occasion to show my appreciation to my Dad for the gift he gave to me in this hobby and that he is giving to my youngest son showing patience and dedication as he did with me. Fact of today is that my teen age son calls grandpa and ask him to be picked up so they can build together, go flying, visiting swap meets and so on and my Dad happily will take the car drive around 45 Miles and do so!

[Rafale]

Tobe

I think your excellent post epitomises what this hobby is all about, thanks for posting

Regards

Nige.