[skirmish]

Are folk just sending their RX's back in their own jiffy bags or are you using the ones that Horizon Hobby say they will send out to us? The reason I ask is that I filled out the form requesting one but still haven't received anything.

Just curious as to what everyone is doing?

[PDR]

I'm now without 5 models as the receivers have been sent back. I'm not at all keen having to wait two months for a replacement.

Would you have prefered it if Horizon had delayed the warning of the problem until they had stocks of replacements?

PDR

[CF-FZG]

M-Link.........

    Idiot

[enginetorque]

 Idiot

How very rude............but you mean that in a CARING way - right  

I did post that 'tongue in cheek' - but underlying my 'snipe' is the fact that M-Link seems to be the ONLY 2.4 system released to date, not to have 'enjoyed' any issues at all (to date...)!

[enginetorque]

Would you have prefered it if Horizon had delayed the warning of the problem until they had stocks of replacements?

PDR

Not really - good point - HOWEVER.............just sticking a note on your website and informing model shops is only half a job - the modelling press (and I've spoken to other Editors) knew nothing about it until word got around!

Horizon have a good track record with Spektrum - be a shame to spoil it now!

[PDR]

Not really - good point - HOWEVER.............just sticking a note on your website and informing model shops is only half a job - the modelling press (and I've spoken to other Editors) knew nothing about it until word got around!

I guess that they were mainly focussed on reaching the majority. To reach the model mag readership Horizon could then follow it up with a personal email to both of them...

 

PDR

[CF-FZG]

How very rude............but you mean that in a CARING way - right  

I did post that 'tongue in cheek' - but underlying my 'snipe' is the fact that M-Link seems to be the ONLY 2.4 system released to date, not to have 'enjoyed' any issues at all (to date...)!

It was probably a bit rude, sorry if it came across as personal, but the point is that M*lt*pl*x comments are as welcome in a Spektrum thread as non-gliderists are in the glider section   (I'm sure you can imagine the comments/reactions if I went into an M-link thread and said oohhhh you should buy something else instead, it's akin to telling an Jehovah's witness that I'm a Satanist)

Hmm, I thought I'd seen a problem with m-link mentioned in another thread on here   obviously sorted out though if there was

Just to clarify something, I have nothing against m-link, faaaaast, or any other 2.4GHz system and would be quite happy to recommend that e.g. a foobar user stay with faaaast if he's used to their programming.  Personally, I use Spektrum and have no current interest in trying any other.


Mark

[PDR]

Personally, I use Spektrum and have no current interest in trying any other.

Discussions on current interests should be made in the electric sections - please keep it on-topic in this one.

PDR

[CF-FZG]

Discussions on current interests should be made in the electric sections - please keep it on-topic in this one.

 

[enginetorque]

I guess that they were mainly focussed on reaching the majority. To reach the model mag readership Horizon could then follow it up with a personal email to both of them...

 

PDR

Yes indeed - they could (but haven't)..................

[enginetorque]

It was probably a bit rude, sorry if it came across as personal, but the point is that M*lt*pl*x comments are as welcome in a Spektrum thread as non-gliderists are in the glider section   (I'm sure you can imagine the comments/reactions if I went into an M-link thread and said oohhhh you should buy something else instead, it's akin to telling an Jehovah's witness that I'm a Satanist)

Hmm, I thought I'd seen a problem with m-link mentioned in another thread on here   obviously sorted out though if there was

Just to clarify something, I have nothing against m-link, faaaaast, or any other 2.4GHz system and would be quite happy to recommend that e.g. a foobar user stay with faaaast if he's used to their programming.  Personally, I use Spektrum and have no current interest in trying any other.


Mark

Nothing wrong with  Spektrum - it's the market leader and started the trend - tis a job to generate ones actual 'mood' when posting - emails are the same - I've caused 'a bit of a stir' with the odd fired off email now and then - dangerous is t'internet 

[paulplane]

I flew my Katana last weekend, which has a Futaba FASST RX in it. On turning the set on, the RX had no bind on the TX. Then I remembered, I bought a new set last year, set the model up, but never flew it since the other TX. Of course, It wasn't bound to the new TX.
Silly me

Hopefully, this RX is the only problem, fingers crossed. 

[Eyeboy]

Would you have prefered it if Horizon had delayed the warning of the problem until they had stocks of replacements?

PDR

PDR, I think you've completely missed the point of my post - I've no issue what so ever sending the receivers back if they're not fit for purpose (please refer to my previous posts validating the need to take action). However, Spektrum are not adopting the primary sales 'commandment' - always exceed the customers expectation. Spektrum produce several different receivers - why not offer customers an alternative receiver - preferably carbon friendly - (which probably doesn't cost them much more to make but would gain help restore faith in their products / service)? Why should I have to wait two months for an alternative to be sent out when it's their issue?
 

How about if this issue occured to some other form of recreational equipment e.g a tennis racket?

Dear Mr Eyeboy,
                 We need to recall your tennis racket. We'll send you a replacement in two months time.  If you can't wait to play tennis again until August, perhaps you could use a table tennis bat or some other form of racket you may have in your possesion? Alternatively, you may wish to consider purchasing one of our more expensive rackets which are suitable for use on clay surfaces?

Thanks in advance for your patience. We believe a problem shared is a problem halved. We appreciate you bearing half the load with us.

Yours faithfully

The Spektrum sports equipment team.
 

To top it off, not only have I lost one plane due to the issue and have to wait two months for replacements but today they sent me a letter confirming receipt of 4 receivers when 5 were sent! They need to sort themselves out. Quickly.
My faith in Spektrum / JR is RAPIDLY diminishing.
Word of mouth is the strongest form of marketing - they're not doing themselves any favours right now.
 

[PDR]

PDR, I think you've completely missed the point of my post - I've no issue what so ever sending the receivers back if they're not fit for purpose (please refer to my previous posts validating the need to take action). However, Spektrum are not adopting the primary sales 'commandment' - always exceed the customers expectation.

This is one of those little sayings that are heard mainly from affronted customers and the former sales managers of bankrupted companies...

Spektrum produce several different receivers - why not offer customers an alternative receiver - preferably carbon friendly - (which probably doesn't cost them much more to make but would gain help restore faith in their products / service)?

Why should they? You have no right or entitlement to it - you're just out for a freeby. Your mini is subject to a recall - why do you feel entitled to a ferrari in replacement? As fdar as I remember the 6250 is the only "carbon-friendly" Rx they make, and now they've discovered that it isn't as carbon-friendly as they'd hoped. The corrolary of this is that they CAN'T supply an alternative to do the same job until they've found the reason for the carbon-aggression and fixed it - DUH!

Why should I have to wait two months for an alternative to be sent out when it's their issue?

Because no matter how much you stamp your feet and spit your dummies the real world is like that. Specky have taken the responsible action in advising of the danger as soon as possible. It takes time to develop a fix, so you'll just have to wait. If they'd been able to offer an instant fix I'd probably be accusing them of misdoings since they'd clearly known about the problem for months, had allowed customers to carry on flying & breaking models, crashing into schools and nuclear powerstations etc while they developed the fix.

Specky have done the right thing and I respectfully suggest you need to grow up!

How about if this issue occured to some other form of recreational equipment e.g a tennis racket?

It happens all the time. For example I have a colleague whose brand new renault was off the road for nine weeks awaiting a fix for a safety-critical problem with the antilock brakes.

Sorry - no sympathy here.

PDR

[3D_Flyer]

I agree completely with Eyeboy... They are not doing them selves any favoures at all, and yes people are losing faith, i for one am going back to futaba, because after all the other trouble i have had with my dx7/ horizon, this rx recall was the final straw! 

Steve

[Eyeboy]

I agree completely with Eyeboy...
Steve

Thanks Steve. I'm sure many others share my opinion.
 

PDR, I find your comments EXTREMELY patronising. Also, I do not appreciate being deemed as 'out for a freebie'.  Perhaps if you had worked as "a former sales manager for a bankrupted company" your personal skills in how to effectively deal with the situation would be a little different. I greatly appreciate differences of opinion, but the tone and language you've used to communicate your thoughts leaves much to be desired.

[rcfanuk]

Ok lads, lets keep this on topic, if its getting personal then it will be locked.

resume normal service 

Steve

[enginetorque]

"but the tone and language you've used to communicate your thoughts leaves much to be desired"..........(unquote etc..)

Ah - you're mistaking Mr R with someone who gives a ***T.............


I well recall meeting Dave Wilshere for the first time "Ah - hello Dave, is your father here with you, I want to speak to him"..................."Why - has he been rude to you? Don't take it personally, he's rude to everyone" 

However - back on topic - I am in part agreement with both sides of this argument - when Multiplex (sorry to bring up he 'Emm word' again....) had a quality issue with (perfectly functioning at the time....) their Cockpit SX transmitter - it was post it to Mike Ridley - returned in 24 hours with a free servo by way of saying sorry - rather better service!

Horizon are by no means obliged to provide you with a 'Ferrari' for your 'Mini' - but it wouldn't hurt them to do so!


How to do things 'the other way' - TOYOTA.....ended up costing rather more!

[rcfanuk]

when Multiplex (sorry to bring up he 'Emm word' again....) had a quality issue with (perfectly functioning at the time....) their Cockpit SX transmitter - it was post it to Mike Ridley - returned in 24 hours with a free servo by way of saying sorry - rather better service!

I guess (and it is a guess) that at this time Horizon have no fix that they can use to quickly turn receivers around, so they are carring out due diligence and notifying users to the issue (if you ignore it, you can't say they did not tell you). When the fix is sorted they will then swop out the affected units and they have given a timeline for this.

If I was a MPX user I would be concerned with a 24 hr turnaround as this infers they already found the issue and fixed it before letting customers know, (again all guesswork, and not trying to bash MPX).

I have personally had no issues with my Spekky gear, and have heard that Horizon are very good with any customer service questions.

Just my 2p

Steve

[Eyeboy]

Thanks for your constructive and enlightening post Mr Torque.
 

Horizon are by no means obliged to provide you with a 'Ferrari' for your 'Mini' - but it wouldn't hurt them to do so!

I totally agree that it's not likely to be commercially viable to replace a 'Ferrari with a Mini but this issue, in my opinion, raises two points:

1. I'd settle for a 'Mini' alternative if offered one as the majority of models I've used this rx in are not of carbon construction. So why not offer customers an alternative even if it's of similar value. Not everybody would take the offer up but I'm sure it would appease some.

2. The guys at Spektrum are going to have to spend a heap of money addressing this PR issue. As word of mouth is one of the best forms of advertising (especially via a forum like this) why not nip the issue in the bud, provide customers with excellence in service and at least in part regain some of the goodwill they've apparently lost? In other words, provide them with a suitable upgrade even if it means the consumer having to make some type of contribution.

Spektrum make a carbon friendly antenna (SPM9546) which retails for around £20 which I am of the understanding could be linked to a non carbon friendly RX and would likely resolve the issue for some. They do make another carbon friendly receiver (AR9300) but this typically retails at double the price of the AR6250 - I would contribute to this receiver if asked just so that I can fly some of my nicer toys again before August.
 

[markg]

The first post says they offer a refund.  So why not just take that and buy whatever RX you like?

[SteveBB]

Thanks for your constructive and enlightening post Mr Torque.
 

I totally agree that it's not likely to be commercially viable to replace a 'Ferrari with a Mini but this issue, in my opinion, raises two points:

1. I'd settle for a 'Mini' alternative if offered one as the majority of models I've used this rx in are not of carbon construction. So why not offer customers an alternative even if it's of similar value. Not everybody would take the offer up but I'm sure it would appease some.

2. The guys at Spektrum are going to have to spend a heap of money addressing this PR issue. As word of mouth is one of the best forms of advertising (especially via a forum like this) why not nip the issue in the bud, provide customers with excellence in service and at least in part regain some of the goodwill they've apparently lost? In other words, provide them with a suitable upgrade even if it means the consumer having to make some type of contribution.

Spektrum make a carbon friendly antenna (SPM9546) which retails for around £20 which I am of the understanding could be linked to a non carbon friendly RX and would likely resolve the issue for some. They do make another carbon friendly receiver (AR9300) but this typically retails at double the price of the AR6250 - I would contribute to this receiver if asked just so that I can fly some of my nicer toys again before August.
 

I doubt Horizon will spend anywhere near 'heaps' of money on PR. They're not trying to stop an environmental disaster. They will I suspect be investing in R & D to try and a) eliminate the current problem and b) make sure it doesn't happen again. They'll have far more pressing things to throw money at than securing the services of the Max Cliffords of this world. All will be sunny again in Spekkie land come september... 

Take the refund offered, and buy something else instead. Or chop in your radio and get something else. Something to be said for being the tortoise.....

[Eyeboy]

The first post says they offer a refund.  So why not just take that and buy whatever RX you like?

A very good point.
In hindsight this would have made sense for some of the RX's I've sent back.
However, in other situations I need a (minimum) six channel rx with end pins. The choice at present is very limiting (to the point of being almost non-existant). Also, as I've lost a model to the issue I thought it best to deal direct with Horizon so that none of the information about the incident are lost between customer, retailer and manufacturer.
 

[Eyeboy]

Something to be said for being the tortoise.....

I thought I was being a Tortoise! Was it the buck teeth that gave me away?  

You could argue that this issue will result in some people (the tortoises) now delaying the purchase of a 2.4ghz set, hence the increased need for them (manufacturers including Spektrum) to spend more on PR and advertising in this area.
 

[GP]

Well, today I replaced the AR6250 in my Habu with an AR500.  But I can't shake the feeling I've gone downhill in terms of reliability. 

I've replaced a receiver that had perfect reliability and had two really well-positioned aerials, with a more basic receiver that has one well-positioned aerial and one badly positioned aerial (ie the AR500's short aerial has to be in the fuse close to wires, battery etc).

Am I really doing the right thing pulling out AR6250s I've had no trouble with?  Only time will tell I guess.

[enginetorque]

If it sets your mind easy - I've had 'brilliant' service with AR500s 

Had one in an ARTF trainer that was 'deliberately' flown out of range - except that it wouldn't - so I bunged (technical term) the receiver in my Multiplex Blizzard - been in there nearly a year now and never a hiccup!

[skirmish]

Just received my AR6250 replacements in the form of two AR6255's

Anyone else got theirs yet?

[Duncan]

No worries with the AR500, I have had them in two habu's with no problems whatsoever. I do have a carbon rx to send back that is currently in my F5D model, which is a bit gutting as I really needed some practice before the nats. I'm just hoping the replacement arrives early august!!

[GP]

On another thread someone has just received their AR6255s.  (They're the same length and height but 5mm wider.)

[Eyeboy]

I received four through the post this morning (one still en route). I'm delighted that they are here already - good work Horizon.

I've not got the chance to fly for a few days so would be keen to hear if there are any issues either on the ground or in the air . . . .
 

[cuban8]

Perhaps someone with a fuller knowledge of radio could cut through some of the  hype and Foobar V Spekky B"££*&^t. Ex- Royal Signals guys are top notch, I usually find.

How can a receiver that otherwise works well, be suspect when just used with carbon airframes? Doesn't this suggest that it's an issue with the aerial system? If I've got my sums right (a long time since college so I stand to be corrected) the wavelength at 2.4 GHz is around 12 Centimetres. I'm no expert, but I should think that with any aerial system sized at such a close point to the wavelength, problems with reflections/ phasing/nulls will be an issue, particularly at such high frequencies.
Physics at high frequency applies to all makes, so whats going on?

More than willing to be (re) educated

C8

[enginetorque]

There is a lot of 'bore locks' talked about receivers and RC generally, little knowledge being dangerous and all that.

I'm afraid I too am completely bamboozled by the Spektrum recall - someone somewhere is being economical with the truth - if it's a 'carbon' issue, then it's nothing to do with the receiver internals, unless that is, with the longer aerial (losses) the front end of the receiver isn't doing it's thing (most unlikely)!

The wavelengh/(frequency reciprocal...) is very small at 2.4 as we all understand and yes indeed, that makes reflections/refractions and shielding an issue (just like your mobile phones) but if the aerial is in the clear then you can bury the receiver in a lead lined steel reinforced box - it makes no difference!

So come on Spektrum - spill the beans - what IS the problem with the receiver in question?

[markg]

Maybe the receiver just didn't work properly with the extended aerials.

[enginetorque]

Maybe the receiver just didn't work properly with the extended aerials.

Yep it did - know folks with dozens of them - and in very expensive toys too - no problems with range or attitude, so the problem was probably a component or construction issue!

That's my guess

[Duncan]

MY F5D flew fine with the 6250, but i took it out this morning and sent it to Horizon. I'm hoping that they get the replacement to me for the end of the week as i'd like to fly this weekend.

[Phil_G]

...so the problem was probably a component or construction issue!

But why would that warrant the design of a new receiver and all the expense that entails?

Horizon has performed an analysis of the AR6250 receiver and is in the process of testing a newly designed receiver.

Dont get me wrong, I'm not a "brand fan" of any kind, I fly anything that works, but I am genuinely interested in radio matters.

Cheers
Phil

[PDR]

I suspect the problem was with reflections and image-errors, and I suspect the redesigned receiver has more active and passive signal processing elements on the front end (whether as additions or as an alternative chipset) to extract the datastream from the reflections.

But this is pure speculation on my part.

PDR

[PDR]

Actually thinking about it this could also have been a simple thermal problem that required the physical layout of the Rx to be revised. Ovherheating has strange effects on digital stuff - in accelerated life trials we've found that a processor rated for 55degC will run for weels at 55degC without missing a beat, but take the temperature up to 56,5degC and it falls over in about 5 minutes.

Again, speculation.

PDR

[GP]

My 5 all worked perfectly - in fact the most perfect receivers I have ever had, never glitched once in hundreds of flights.  But I sent them back yesterday morning because I figured there must be something in the recall.

It's a lot of trouble to go to when you've never experienced an issue - uninstalling, installing, rebinding - but I guess there must be some sort of rare but serious issue otherwise Spektrum would never do a recall.

[Steve J]

I put my three AR6250's in the post to Horizon Hobby on Monday and got three AR6255's in the post today.

Nice to see that the 6255 supports the FlightLog.

Steve