Topic: Dynamic 60

Nothing I have read here puts me off wanting a D60 as soon as I can afford one. Whilst I think for frontside flying there are probably better alrounders I doubt there is anything that can be built a standard to take such abuse, throw in Sloperacer's customer backup if there is any defect (an occasional hazard of far East production) and I can't think of many better ways of spending the money.
I've only seen one D60 in the flesh, it was in Tarifa over the winter. It seemed pretty bulletproof even if the owner didn't want to fly it off the rocky mountain.

been away. not had time to read everything but just want to add a couple of  things.
1. I think the design of the dynamic is brilliant. all of them. but as has been said by me before and agreed by others it is strongly let down by its build quality. I do believe that my would would not have broken if the quality was better.

2.The reason the 60 came apart easier than the 80 was due to the glue not the surface area. if you look at the 80 glue path it is very rough, and the 60 was smooth, telling me that the quality of the glue is not good at all.

I posted what I have to show how I have fixed the model, and shared my feelings accordingly.

been away. not had time to read everything but just want to add a couple of  things.
1. I think the design of the dynamic is brilliant. all of them. but as has been said by me before and agreed by others it is strongly let down by its build quality. I do believe that my would would not have broken if the quality was better.

2.The reason the 60 came apart easier than the 80 was due to the glue not the surface area. if you look at the 80 glue path it is very rough, and the 60 was smooth, telling me that the quality of the glue is not good at all.

I posted what I have to show how I have fixed the model, and shared my feelings accordingly.

Will, I can't comment on the inside build of the d60, I havnt seen it open like you, But your making out that you had a bit of a rough landing and if the model was built differently it would not be damaged. What a load of rubbish I was there, It was an uncontrolled crash, I have had a number of mouldies over 20 years and if I had "Landed" like that they all would be damaged.I just dont understand how you are un-willing to accept the model was damaged due to you crashing it and nothing to do with the build quality.

Will, I can't comment on the inside build of the d60, I havnt seen it open like you, But your making out that you had a bit of a rough landing and if the model was built differently it would not be damaged. What a load of rubbish I was there, It was an uncontrolled crash, I have had a number of mouldies over 20 years and if I had "Landed" like that they all would be damaged.I just dont understand how you are un-willing to accept the model was damaged due to you crashing it and nothing to do with the build quality.

funny that. you said you couldn't see it. Hell I was further forward than you and I didn't see it. but ye maybe you are right.

Not gona post too much more for now on this. Everybody has their point of view.

funny that. you said you couldn't see it. Hell I was further forward than you and I didn't see it. but ye maybe you are right.

Not gona post too much more for now on this. Everybody has their point of view.

Exactly, I didnt see it hit the ground, neither did you, what we both saw was it stalling out of site down the valley, Not what I would call a rough landing but a crash.But your rite there's no point going on about it we just wont get anywhere which is a shame.I just wanted to point out that in my opinion the damage was caused by you and not the build quality or lack of. It wasnt a dig at you, like you say everyone has there opinions, TBH I hate to see anyone damage a model, and if they can be repaired then thats great because they cost way to much, and I crash ALOT

been away. not had time to read everything but just want to add a couple of  things.
1. I think the design of the dynamic is brilliant. all of them. but as has been said by me before and agreed by others it is strongly let down by its build quality. I do believe that my would would not have broken if the quality was better.

2.The reason the 60 came apart easier than the 80 was due to the glue not the surface area. if you look at the 80 glue path it is very rough, and the 60 was smooth, telling me that the quality of the glue is not good at all.

I posted what I have to show how I have fixed the model, and shared my feelings accordingly.

I'll share my feelings too then. You're talking complete nonsense - the illogical conclusions that you are drawing have nothing to do with the facts that you are presented with. I guess that you can rest secure in the knowledge that whatever lay-up you design will be well up to keeping a screwdriver out of the spar cap. In the meantime, I'm sure Joe will continue to build them to actually fly and break records.

 In fact i can barely believe that you can even take yourself seriously when you type this stuff. YOU STUFFED IT IN WILL - just grow up and deal with it and stop trying to hide behind some pseudo-mouldie-builder know it all stand point. It's not like you have a stunning record with not crashing models - nothing wrong with that, but why the sudden big baby attitude about fessing up to busting a perfectly good model?

You say others have commented about the Dynamics quality too - well that's complete nonsense as well - they're not perfect, but they are perfect where they need to be i.e. they go like shoot off a shovel and don't break unless you break them. Go find any other 60 incher that you can load up to 100oz and go 351mph with, and that you can buy off the shelf. What on earth are your weird set of standards relevant to Will? You going to try and break the speed of sound with your 400,000g carbon MiniDragon knock-off wing? Go do it first and then start criticising other people's builds who actually hold real world records with their designs and build quality.

Unbelievable.

Z

This is all sounding a bit slaggy and personal don't you think?

Funny......but.......how long do you reckon it can keep going before the mod steps in................... oh

This is all sounding a bit slaggy and personal don't you think?

Funny......but.......how long do you reckon it can keep going before the mod steps in................... oh

haven't you heard the mods are in. zim = mod.
cant really be bothered to continue arguing about certain facts. some will be proven with time.

haven't you heard the mods are in. zim = mod.
cant really be bothered to continue arguing about certain facts. some will be proven with time.

Seems to me as a complete outsider that there's room for everybody to be right - it's a good strong plane, strong enough to take the speeds it's designed for.

It could also vary in strength and internal neatness, anywhere from 'strong enough' to 'more than strong enough', from model to model. It's not a CNC made, factory produced artifact after all. They are individually hand made.

Maybe some aspects could be improved - I know that's true for everything I've ever made. And maybe that would be at the expense of, well, expense. More time to make it, more wastage through stricter quality control, more everything. All adding up to more cost.

As long as it's good enough externally to do what it needs to do, and strong enough internally, it all needs to balance out to a fair price that keeps it in the market.

There are ways to suggest improvements that get through, and there are ways that just rile people up. I honestly haven't seen any of it either way until this thread, but I do know it's very easy to be taken the wrong way when things are said across the internet.

Gliding is the chilled out side of model flying. Why not stay chilled out and cooperate to make things better?

 

I'll share my feelings too then. You're talking complete nonsense - the illogical conclusions that you are drawing have nothing to do with the facts that you are presented with. I guess that you can rest secure in the knowledge that whatever lay-up you design will be well up to keeping a screwdriver out of the spar cap. In the meantime, I'm sure Joe will continue to build them to actually fly and break records.

 In fact i can barely believe that you can even take yourself seriously when you type this stuff. YOU STUFFED IT IN WILL - just grow up and deal with it and stop trying to hide behind some pseudo-mouldie-builder know it all stand point. It's not like you have a stunning record with not crashing models - nothing wrong with that, but why the sudden big baby attitude about fessing up to busting a perfectly good model?

You say others have commented about the Dynamics quality too - well that's complete nonsense as well - they're not perfect, but they are perfect where they need to be i.e. they go like shoot off a shovel and don't break unless you break them. Go find any other 60 incher that you can load up to 100oz and go 351mph with, and that you can buy off the shelf. What on earth are your weird set of standards relevant to Will? You going to try and break the speed of sound with your 400,000g carbon MiniDragon knock-off wing? Go do it first and then start criticising other people's builds who actually hold real world records with their designs and build quality.

Unbelievable.

Z

here here well said !

Jeez, this thread sucks! 

since when did criticising a model glider, justly or unjustly, ever warrant vitriolic personal attacks?

Jeez, this thread sucks! 

since when did criticising a model glider, justly or unjustly, ever warrant vitriolic personal attacks?

+1

here here well said !

What do you know? You thing dynamics are for frontside

sorry. tried to stop but well.

Details

The top of the wing is perfect. even when I got inside all I found was delam of the main spar.
There is NO sigh of impact.

As you say rick I have put plenty in. And I have broken spars and writen off compleate models, but there is always damage where the impact was.

The rear fuz bolt never loosened (Which I have seen often on dynamic due to hard  and crash landings) and the nose never damaged or pulled through the fuz

Details

That is a thick layed of micro fibers I beleve. but well worked more like micro balloons. (I could be wrong about that) And If I am wrong and it is microfibers that joe could look at different resins and longer fibers.


Like I said I love the models I would hate to see it die but there are a couple of small attention to details that would bring it into a even better league.

Joe, Rick
Stop defending, start looking into it. Try it yourself, try some different things and you will see the difference. I am not just criticizing but trying to be constructive as I want to see these models and joe reach their full potential..

Any way, What ever. Its all about the flying not the forum.

Joe, Rick
Stop defending, start looking into it. Try it yourself, try some different things and you will see the difference. I am not just criticizing but trying to be constructive as I want to see these models and joe reach their full potential..

Thanks Will, your way ahead of the game.

Jeez, this thread sucks! 

since when did criticising a model glider, justly or unjustly, ever warrant vitriolic personal attacks?

When I get tired of hearing second-hand stories of Will's "expertise" on Dynamic quality and construction getting handed out to anyone who will listen slopeside is when, Steve. The video was just the icing on the cake I'm afraid. Sitting there making out like what he's looking at it some sort of crime against modelling when it's actually one of the best things that happened to DS ever since its inception.

You can start handing it out, Will, once you can actually do better. Commenting on a finish is one thing - anyone can do that - that's entirely fair. Trying to make out like YOU know how to BUILD one to a better level of constructional integrity than Joe Manor does is quite frankly ridiculous.

Re being a mod - well as far as that goes, you can have all the indignation you like about me making some blunt comments for a change. Just because I'm a mod doesn't mean that when I'm plssed off about something I don't get to express it like anyone else does.

Zim

You can start handing it out, Will, once you can actually do better. Commenting on a finish is one thing - anyone can do that - that's entirely fair. Trying to make out like YOU know how to BUILD one to a better level of constructional integrity than Joe Manor does is quite frankly ridiculous.

Pot kettle black.
One of the wings made between myself and another hit the deck at serious speed and well the wing lived to tell the tail. a pity about the fuzz. what have you moulded? the only wing you bagged still hasn't flown? But I guess you will come back with some " i did bla bla bla, and by bla is bigger than yours". My moulded bits may not be there yet but one thing they are not is week. and I think you know that.

Thing is Rick, between you and Joe you have blown this up far more than it ever needed to. I listened to the vid, and thought should I remove the sound, then through naa its so soft no one will hear it. and I think most didn't until the point was made. Getting into a slanging match never makes people look good. I could take more photos and do more to prove my point. and as it damages your sales the sad thing is you 2 will probably not do anything about it but try make it out to be nothing, get upset about things and well get no where (Hence I have tried to be restrained a subtle to a degree). there is no smoke with out a fire.

I do think your personal attacks may be out of order, but you obviously think I deserve them, thing is, around February this year I gave up caring about what you think.

Deep down I think there may be some agreement in the dynamic camp. and I hope when Joe goes over to sort out the d130, he gets to the bottom of these issues as rick has said he will, and we start getting the model that is being kept tied down.

Any How.

Back on topic. I hope to get into the loft this evening to do some more work to get this beast fixed. There where some issues when it went back together.

The top of the wing is perfect. even when I got inside all I found was delam of the main spar.
There is NO sigh of impact.

So you crashed a model from 50 feet up and nothing really broke? Isn't that a good thing? The way I see it Will is all other moldies I have flown in the past break really easy. The builders are used to using microballoons. In order to compensate for the loss of bond integrity I widened the spars to give more bonding area. Keep in mind that the Dynamics have thicker sparcaps than most other gliders that are available. The stiff sparcap will pull away easier than a thin one under load. When something has to give in a hard crash. Typically it's the spar and skins on most planes. The Dynamics tend to delam at the TE but never in flight. On a hard landing maybe but I think it's better than having a wing or spar crack in half. It's an easy fix. I have been working to get some models built with other fillers as I dont use micro myself but have really learned that there are pros and cons to using it for structural bonding. It is likely that your model might have been unrepairable in the same crash if everything was bonded with say, structural epoxy. You might have been trying to do a D60 to D90 build.   Please respect that I live and breath model airplanes. I have been designing layups and testing them for many years now and I am fully aware of all aspects of designing a structural layup of a DS model and Im also experienced in making improvised decisions and accepting tradeoffs while manufacturing DS models. The Dynamics are not built as solid as I can build them. They are designed to be strong enough to break speed records in DS. They are also designed to be affordable. While there is always room for improvement I feel like my goals have been met. Of course I will continue to improve the products but there is a much grander scheme involved than just worrying about getting the models crashproof. I have had my hands full and I dont think most people have any idea of the hours I put into it. It is easy to sit back and say, "you should make this better" or "you should make that better", but please understand that just getting the models we have now has been a difficult task. Im not the type of person that likes to offend people. I actually try to be as nice as I can be and try to make others feel as comfortable as possible. I apologize for lashing out at you and Im really sorry if I offended others. I did say what I felt but I could have handled it differently. Hopefully your repaired D60 gets you a new PB and you get to enjoy it for a while.

Joe

Now that's a reasoned & conciliatory post, if ever I saw one.
Hope it enables a line to be drawn.
Maybe everyone can shake hands, & go flying.

Can't see any lasting damage done.
Everyone will simply have his own take on what's been said.
No-one involved in the fracas is anything other than lovable.

See you on the slopes.
I'm signing off...........

Now that's a reasoned & conciliatory post, if ever I saw one.
Hope it enables a line to be drawn.
Maybe everyone can shake hands, & go flying.

Can't see any lasting damage done.
Everyone will simply have his own take on what's been said.
No-one involved in the fracas is anything other than lovable.

See you on the slopes.
I'm signing off...........

+1

So you crashed a model from 50 feet up and nothing really broke? Isn't that a good thing? The way I see it Will is all other moldies I have flown in the past break really easy. The builders are used to using microballoons. In order to compensate for the loss of bond integrity I widened the spars to give more bonding area. Keep in mind that the Dynamics have thicker sparcaps than most other gliders that are available. The stiff sparcap will pull away easier than a thin one under load. When something has to give in a hard crash. Typically it's the spar and skins on most planes. The Dynamics tend to delam at the TE but never in flight. On a hard landing maybe but I think it's better than having a wing or spar crack in half. It's an easy fix. I have been working to get some models built with other fillers as I dont use micro myself but have really learned that there are pros and cons to using it for structural bonding. It is likely that your model might have been unrepairable in the same crash if everything was bonded with say, structural epoxy. You might have been trying to do a D60 to D90 build.   Please respect that I live and breath model airplanes. I have been designing layups and testing them for many years now and I am fully aware of all aspects of designing a structural layup of a DS model and Im also experienced in making improvised decisions and accepting tradeoffs while manufacturing DS models. The Dynamics are not built as solid as I can build them. They are designed to be strong enough to break speed records in DS. They are also designed to be affordable. While there is always room for improvement I feel like my goals have been met. Of course I will continue to improve the products but there is a much grander scheme involved than just worrying about getting the models crashproof. I have had my hands full and I dont think most people have any idea of the hours I put into it. It is easy to sit back and say, "you should make this better" or "you should make that better", but please understand that just getting the models we have now has been a difficult task. Im not the type of person that likes to offend people. I actually try to be as nice as I can be and try to make others feel as comfortable as possible. I apologize for lashing out at you and Im really sorry if I offended others. I did say what I felt but I could have handled it differently. Hopefully your repaired D60 gets you a new PB and you get to enjoy it for a while.

Joe

Joe I dont DS my D60 and yet I still enjoy the model on the front side I think it has now given us the next level in 60" models, please keep building and designing these supurb models, I am now the proud owner of the big front side grin when flying my D60.

Many thanks

Pot kettle black.
One of the wings made between myself and another hit the deck at serious speed and well the wing lived to tell the tail. a pity about the fuzz. what have you moulded? the only wing you bagged still hasn't flown? But I guess you will come back with some " i did bla bla bla, and by bla is bigger than yours". My moulded bits may not be there yet but one thing they are not is week. and I think you know that.

Well this will be the last thing that I say about this Will. But you have me seriously wrong. I'm WELL aware of my limitations - I'm not saying I can mould anything better than you - it's irrelevant as I've never even tried - I'm just saying that for you to criticise Joe's models in the light of his experience and knowledge is daft. Yes, I've bagged one wing and it hasn't flown yet - so what? But I certainly do not think that it entitles me to criticise anyone's building, nor have I done so, nor have I ever put myself forward as a moulded construction expert, unlike yourself. You might find that your progress is faster when you spend more time listening than criticising.

I'm not trying to say that I know more about building mouldies than ANYONE as clearly that would be bull, BUT I do object to the way you rip on about this. The D60 is "tied down" - c'mon dude - it's done 351! The one that did that is the same as anything you or I can buy - that wasn't a special model, just another one out the crate! So whilst I've never denied that they could be better, and nor has Joe, I'm completely baffled as to how they are "tied down" in your opinion in the light of their performance record.

I don't bang on about getting stuff bigger than anyone else's either -  I just get enthusiastic about the stuff that I'm into. You can take it whatever way you want - I guess you're taking it the wrong way right now. That's a shame, but I don't mind. But the one thing you won't ever find me doing is plssing on someone else's parade for no necessary or positive reason who is just trying to do an honest job and do it well.

During Joe's visit to the factory for the D130, the D60 is going to get some attention in various ways, but with that will also come a price increase, as you may have already seen on RCG.

So if anyone thinks that a 351mph specification D60 might be adequate for their needs for the moment, I will have the final shipment at the regular price of £375 available soon, after which they will be going up to over £450 - actual price not yet finalised, and of course dependent on the dollar/ pound.

Personally speaking, I've always said that I'd rather have a model built to fly than built to crash. Seems to me, and pretty much most other people that own one, that as it is right now it is a great blend of toughness and performance.

I guess you'll be happy with the version that you make up in your loft, which is good news, and we'll be highly unlikely to ever see eye to eye in the way that you've put forward your "expertise". That's fine too. I'm glad I've aired my views on the matter.

Contrary to what you may think, I also wish you well in your D100 experiment - I've always thought that it was a cool project, and the fact that in my opinion you've been a bit of a t1t over crashing your D60 and not just manning up to the consequences doesn't alter the fact that I hope your D100 project works out really well for you.

Z

isnt it time sombody locked this thread....................

Like I said before boys. Everyone else gets to speak their mind. Every now and then I figure that I get the right to do it too.

But if you want it locked, I'll lock it.

Z

yeah lock it .its serving no purpose other than to wind 3 people up