Topic: Cockpit SX charging

Just charging my new Multiplex Cockpit SX. There are no indications of charging when connected to the charger or when it is fully charged.

It seems to have peaked at about 8.4v, is that about the max?

thanks
Mike

It is 6 cells so that is well charged.

Thanks John

Yeah the Mpx wall wart is pants but it does the job
as your fleet grows Mike, you will probably want a good alround chager that can do all differant types of batteries and do cycles ( discharge as well as charge)

I use this
http://bantam301.20m.com/301dx.htm
not the best out there and is 12V not mains
but it gives you an idea

Hi Allen,

I bought a Fusion charger a while ago but I just didn't have the Din type conector interface, so ended up buying the MPX cahrger as well.

you can buy an mpx charge lead or make your own.

I use one of a range of peak detect chargers and the MPX lead - if you're on M-Link then current drain is miniscule and the battery will last ages!

I bought the din plugs from Maplins for about 80p

I know there is a wiring Diagram some where but I think I just used a Volt meter on the wall wart to get the two pins right

Give Justin a ring at Punkies 

A couple of days ago I saw a site that shows how to put an inline led into the wall charger but for the life of me I can`t find it now. I thought it might be on rc-soar, had a quick look but no luck. I`ll keep looking.

Roger

PS - Just found it here
     
       In Line Led
       on page 40 (its the EVO 9 & 12 FAQ book)
       

I just got a cockpit sx 35mhz on fleabay
No charger included.
Anyone know the correct pins to make up a charging lead ?
If you happen to know the correct plug to get at Maplin it would help too.
Cheers
Ben

I just got a cockpit sx 35mhz on fleabay
No charger included.
Anyone know the correct pins to make up a charging lead ?
If you happen to know the correct plug to get at Maplin it would help too.
Cheers
Ben

I used the metal cased 5 pin DIN for mine - it fits really nicely. This one.

I'll look out the pinout I used as well. You don't need the two end pins in the 7-pin socket, they are only used for firmware updates to the TX if I remember right.

I used the metal cased 5 pin DIN for mine - it fits really nicely. This one.

I'll look out the pinout I used as well. You don't need the two end pins in the 7-pin socket, they are only used for firmware updates to the TX if I remember right.

Here it is. Watch out that some sites just number the DIN pins in series, there's actually a correct way to do it (based on keeping the numbering consistent as they go from 3-9 pins) which is different. If you refer to a instructions like  'pin-1 +ve, pin 3 -ve) you need to know how they are numbering the pins...

trainer port pinouts

Maplin part number for a 7 pin DIN straight Plug HH30H
If you've 'just got to have' a right angled plug then a Maplin FM44 will see you right!

Gordon

i've got a diagram for a 3 pin din.

thanks folks!

Gents
i'm not sure if it applies to the Cockpit set but the Evo series  has something that does not like any form of fast charge or delta peak charger.

I use a Mainlink DP charger and fried something internal. It had to go back to Mike Ridley.

Wall plug chargers are OK. If you use anything else, drop the back off and connect direct into the battery. ( I have changed my TX battery following others on here. 2 cell lipo - lasts for ages )

stu k

The same applies to all the Multiplex transmitters - and it's not "any form of fast charge or delta peak charger"; it's only those with voltage multipliers because they can produce higher voltages that damage the transimitter. So you can use the fast-chargers normally intended for electric cars (ie packs up to 8 cells) but it can be a bad idea to use the aircraft-type chargers that do up to 12, 16 or 25 cells. Within this limit you can charge at up to 1.5A though the DIN socket quite safely, and can use delta-peak shut-down to terminate the charge (para 8.4 of the Evo Pro manual refers).

I mostly use a 250mA wall-wart that's intended for slow-charging buggy packs - it has a "charging" LED that comes on when current is flowing. It only cost a few quid and works well.

PDR

I always used a normal peak detect type charger on both the evo and cockpit, before I discovered the holy profi p4k.

It depends on the type of charger and which output you use.  My schulze chameleon using output 1 blows the fuse in my tx immediately, because it starts by sending a massive voltage spike, no matter how low a current it is set to.  Output 2 which is meant for smaller batteries doesn't, and none of my other peak chargers blow the fuse.

Here it is. Watch out that some sites just number the DIN pins in series, there's actually a correct way to do it (based on keeping the numbering consistent as they go from 3-9 pins) which is different. If you refer to a instructions like  'pin-1 +ve, pin 3 -ve) you need to know how they are numbering the pins...

trainer port pinouts

THAT DIAGRAM IS INCORRECT!!! (Amongst other things there are seven pins, not five)

The correct pin-outs for a Multiplex DIN  (and it's the same on all the multiplex sets going back tro when Pointius was a Pilot) is as follows:

1. "Permanent Live" - the direct connection to the battery +ve
2. "Switched Live" - Only connected to the battery when the power switch is in the "on" position
3. "Ground" - direct connection to the battery -ve
4. "Input/Output" - receives or transmits PPM data from/to buddy box or serial data to/from PC depending on status of pins 5&7
5. "RF Inhibit" - switches off the RF transmission if connected to ground; also switches pin 4 to PPM output mode
6. Not used
7. "Dataportenable" - Switches pin 4 to " data input" mode if connected to ground

So the pins to use for charging are 1 & 3 - NOT 2 & 3 as implied on that link!

PDR

Ref the Charger issue, I am very much a lay person when it comes to electrickery.

The charger that killed mine is a Mainlink Delta 4 which has outputs at 200 400 and 600 milliamp, which I thought were low enough to be safe.

According to Mike Ridley, some of these chargers send some form of voltage spike at some point which fries one of the components.

In terms of 'fast chargers' I had thought that this one would not be very aggressive but it was enough.

If this is what PDR said... then we are agreed!

stu k

Edit, just read MPX' post... must type quicker.

Thank you for proving my point so well about being careful with the numbering used in diagrams.

That diagram has the pins shown from the back of the plug. I believe it's right but I'm on my phone at the moment so I can't easily check how my working setup is actually wired.

Pins six and seven ( the two end pins) are not needed for charging or trainer port use. A five pin plug works perfectly, that's how DIN plugs and their pin numbering are designed.

do I need the diode in the charge lead like the multiplex lead and what type is it ?
also is my protech multi 6 charger OK it does upto 8 cells and from 50ma to 500ma, as you can see Im not elctrickery minded

do I need the diode in the charge lead like the multiplex lead and what type is it ?
also is my protech multi 6 charger OK it does upto 8 cells and from 50ma to 500ma, as you can see Im not elctrickery minded

The diode is a Zener diode - that's one that will effectively limit the maximum voltage seen by the transmitter, to protect it against the spikes some (mostly older) chargers put out occasionally. I'm sorry but I don't know what voltage Zener it is, I don't have a lead with one here to check. Since it depends on the charger, I can't tell whether you need it.

I use a Turnigy Accucell-6 charger which does LiPo, NiMH and NiCd batteries very well - it's this one. I don't have a diode and have not had a problem.

Your other choice is to open up the tx and charge the battery separately - but the Cockpit SX isn't designed for that and the screwholes (self tappers into plastic) will wear out pretty quickly, so I can't recommend doing that.

The diode is a Zener diode - that's one that will effectively limit the maximum voltage seen by the transmitter, to protect it against the spikes some (mostly older) chargers put out occasionally.

It's not about "spikes" and it's nothing to do with "old vs new" chargers (more probably the reverse, as it happens). The issue is simply the maximum voltage that can be safely connected to the transmitter's battery management circuits which is around 12v (for the Evo - I assume it's the same for the Cockpit).

The oldest chargers are simple devices that connect a 12v supply to the battery through some kind of resistance to limit the current, so the highest voltage they can supply is 12v and provided the current is kept within the limit (1.5A for the Evo) the transmitter circuits are perfectly safe.

More recent chargers have voltage multipliers so that they can charge 20v batteries from a 12v source. These chargers, even when set to a low cell-count, can apply very large voltages to push the current through, so these are NOT inherently safe in this application. This applies to any charger which can charge more than eight nickel cells or two lithium cells. Putting a 12v zener across the output would provide a "crowbar" protection that should cause the charger to shut-down if it exceeds the allowable voltage, but it doesn't fail "safe" (if the current blows the zener then it goes back to "unprotected").

Many of the more recent chargers start their charge with a "battery check" cycle in which they ramp up the volts to measure the voltage/current characteristic both to establish the cell type/count and to measure the internal impedance of the cells (which is how the "automatic" modes choose a charge current). This can and does apply excessive voltages and currents in many cases - one of the american chargers actually squirted a 5 second pulse of 5amps at the beginning of every charge cycle regardless of the current limit settings (fortunately it's no longer available). It's this "battery check cycle" that some seem to have confused with "spikes".

So the safest thing is to choose a charger with no voltage multiplier so that no matter what happens it cannot apply more than 12v. Personally I hate having to lay out a charger, leads and power supply just to charge my Tx and I'm a big fan of "wall warts", so I'm always on the look out for something suitable. I recently spotted THIS which seems pretty ideal being that it's a high enough charge rate to only need a couple of hours for a full charge, has delta-peak so it doesn't overcharge, is a simple wall-wart and is very cheap. I'd have to try one to confirm that it would reliably trigger at a less than 1C rate, but it looks good to me!

PDR

Must admit I've been lucky, I've used my Turnigy Accucell 6 and older (non Lipo) Pro Peak, both of which have voltage multipliers. On the Pro-Peak this has an auto function and I often just use this, no problems in over 3 years, but then again I only charge once a month or so, as the run time is so long even on 35 Mhz.

Many of the more recent chargers start their charge with a "battery check" cycle in which they ramp up the volts to measure the voltage/current characteristic both to establish the cell type/count and to measure the internal impedance of the cells (which is how the "automatic" modes choose a charge current). This can and does apply excessive voltages and currents in many cases - one of the american chargers actually squirted a 5 second pulse of 5amps at the beginning of every charge cycle regardless of the current limit settings (fortunately it's no longer available). It's this "battery check cycle" that some seem to have confused with "spikes".

'spikes' were actually from an intermediate generation of mostly nicd chargers which attempted to do some sort of battery conditioning to avoid crystallisation and memory effect.

But you're right that the DC-DC converters in modern chargers can produce more than is safe to go through the tx, although fine for the battery itself.

A decent NiMH capable wall wart would be fine. It's fairly unforgivable of MPX to not supply a charger with the Tx really - like selling a car without a fuel filler cap, you have to buy or bodge that as an extra...

so does anyone think my Protech Multi 6 charger will be any good ? it an AC-DC charger 

It won't harm the Tx, but it has no cut-off and so risks damaging the cells through over-charging. The wall-wart I linked to earlier has a delta-peak cut-off, which is better for the batteries.

As for why Mpx don't supply one - it relates to german retail tax history and tradition in the german hobby. In days gone by germany had something akin to our "Purchase Tax" (predecessor to VAT). Like ours, this tax was charged on complete systems, but not on "spare parts" or "accessories". In the UK this made it common to buy RC Gear as a "Combo" (no servos) because it avoided the tax. In Germany it produced the practice of selling gear as components - you bought the Tx, Rx, servos, chargers etc as seperate items (all exempt from tax). This led to the "tradition" of buying seperates (like with posh hifi), wich is why german model catalogues have lots of general purpose stuff like multi-chargers, 3rd-party receivers & servos etc.

So that's why they don't put one in the box. We are all prisoners of our history.

PDR

PDR thanks for sharing your knowledge your a star, Im glad my charger will work for me I dont mind putting it on a timer once Ive discharged the batterys. I will buy a deltapeak charger soon for my radio as Ive also just bought a Royal Pro as well and will need to charge that too.
I enjoy reading your posts as I learn quite a lot from them...cheers for taking the time to answer me..