Topic: FLAIR TIGER MOTH BUILD

Well my Flair Tiger Moth kit arrived yesterday and I've ordered a Laser 180 powerhouse.

I haven't chose a colour scheme yet but quite like the yellow fuse and wings with silver tank.

Will post some photos once I've worked out how to upload them as I'm not familiar with this forum.

Cheers

subscribed...........

Subscribed.

Subscribed.

Welcome to the club! At the rate I'm building at the moment you'll probably beat me into the air

I'm happy to help with any queries if I possibly can

Richard

Thanks for your support guys n gals
I intend to post Photos as I progress with the build although there may/will be I'm sure some lengthy periods without posts as I have a vared work pattern.

As I've said I ordered a Laser 180 today and should arrive by end of next week (none in stock), I'n in no hurry.
The spec for the 180 is 18x8 prop although when I spoke to the guy at Laser engines he mentioned a 20x8 !! anyone using a 180 out there?? I thought I'd go for a Master airscre 18x8 Classic as they have a bit more weight at the tips which would be well suited for the 180.

As for the kit, well tonight when if I get home from work I will number up all the liteply parts before I start any building, Iwill be using Tightbond 11 glue as I believe it to be probably the best thing since sliced bread, I'll follow other fellow builders technique and epoxy the undercarriage blocks etc where required.
Untilll the Laser 180 arrives I won't be able to construct the the fuse front box sectiopn so may build the rear fuse section so as to maximise build or I may assemble the undercariage, looks like a bit of silver soldering  is need on the trailing lugs as these look like they can easily pull out should I use plain solder.

Oh well that's my initial assessment over.
Speak soon  

The scale prop is just over 18 inches IIRC so 20 would be too big, I think. I'm going for a MA 18x6 on my Saito 180.

You do need silver solder on the U/G trailing links and a few other places I seem to recall. I don't think soft solder will do.

Richard

Yes I agree I think I'll go for the MA 18X8 Classic

18x8 APC........flew my tiggy really well along with the laser 180..........watch the wings as i built mine to the plan which i'm told is wrong.....not enough dihedral on the top set if i remember...so long ago i did mine now...someone else may point you in the right direction......

Hi Vroooom

Just one point perhaps worth noting. Before you glue the ply parts together, just give the front/rear faces a quick brush with some fine sandpaper or a fine Perma-Grit, particularly where the glue is to be applied. Plywood very often has traces of release agent on the front and rear faces after being pressed during manufacture......

Just a thought.

Thanks for that  BrianB I'm already on it, I've had the exsperiance of building with litply before and yes your right it has a release agent on one of the faces.

Cheers vroooOOOM
PS I'm currently building up the fuse sides as I write, see my gallery for pics, will load some more latter to night.

18x8 APC........flew my tiggy really well along with the laser 180..........watch the wings as i built mine to the plan which i'm told is wrong.....not enough dihedral on the top set if i remember...so long ago i did mine now...someone else may point you in the right direction......

Thanks for that I'll check it out before I start building the wings, a few weeks off yet.
Looks like I made the right choice with the Laser 180. I could hve gone for the 150 but the 180 swings a bigger prop and more scale like, also it's nice to have a few more cc just in case.

The issue I have at the moment is whether to lower the mountings for the fuel tank as I know fuel can flood the engine bay if the throttle is left open with engine off.
My 180 doesn't arrive untill next week so will not work on the front section fire wall untill I have resolved this.

Photos, this is a real pan in the neck as I have to reduce the file size for every photo.

vroooOOOM, there's a 250kb limit on attached images.  If you're using Vista then download the free "Prish image resizer" then you can right click on a bunch of images (Ctrl+click to select multiple files) then right click and select the file size you want - I think 800 pixels is good for the forum - and the job's a good 'un.

If you're on XP then there's an image resizer "powertool" that does the same thing.  Hope that helps?

Prish - Google "Prish image resizer"

XP Powertool - http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/downloads/powertoys/xppowertoys.mspx (download from the right hand file list)

When attaching images in a post it's good to use the

Code: [Select]

[attachthumb=#] from the drop down menu above the smilies in a posting window where "#" equals the attachment number 1 to whatever.  Doing it this way means that you can add comments between pictures ....like this ...

Early morning pond ...



...and there's more ..



The code for this looks like ...

Code: [Select]

Early morning pond ...

[attachthumb=1]

...and there's more ..

[attachthumb=2]

Hi Vrooooom

Not only does the Laser 1.80 swing a larger prop and have a slightly higher output than the 1.50, it's also a lump heavier, which is of benefit in many scale models such as the Tiger Moth. In fact there is a note on the Laser site to prospective purchasers of the 1.80. It advises those who are seeking to use the engine in a 3D type aerobatic job to go for the 1.50 instead, as it's about 10 ounces lighter. In fact the Laser 1.50 is lighter than the OS 1.20 Surpass.

The 1.80 has been made deliberately butch to suit serious scale applications.

Don't let the fuel tank thing worry you Vrooooom. Neil Tidey recommends using a Perry Oscillating (vibration operated) pump/regulator in such situations. Works a treat too as the pump only works when the engines runs, so no flooding when it's not!    Leave the tank where it is and use a Perry!

P.S. Here you go Vroooom, the VP20 is the one you want.......  http://www.perrypumps.com/prod02.htm      Sussex Model Centre have them. I've used them for years, and they work!  

Hi Vrooooom

Not only does the Laser 1.80 swing a larger prop and have a slightly higher output than the 1.50, it's also a lump heavier, which is of benefit in many scale models such as the Tiger Moth. In fact there is a note on the Laser site to prospective purchasers of the 1.80. It advises those who are seeking to use the engine in a 3D type aerobatic job to go for the 1.50 instead, as it's about 10 ounces lighter. In fact the Laser 1.50 is lighter than the OS 1.20 Surpass.

The 1.80 has been made deliberately butch to suit serious scale applications.

Don't let the fuel tank thing worry you Vrooooom. Neil Tidey recommends using a Perry Oscillating (vibration operated) pump/regulator in such situations. Works a treat too as the pump only works when the engines runs, so no flooding when it's not!    Leave the tank where it is and use a Perry!

P.S. Here you go Vroooom, the VP20 is the one you want.......  http://www.perrypumps.com/prod02.htm      Sussex Model Centre have them. I've used them for years, and they work!  

Thanks BrianB, I'll have a look see, I've just took out the undercarriage bits n laid them out on the bench, and, well I'm sure there's some brass tubing missing, also missing a brass breather tube on the fuel tank, and some brass tubing for the rudder assembly, aaaaAAAAGH I hate to say this but this is not the first time with Flair and considering the money I've spent I would have expected better quality control, its very frustrating when you've built a large section on the board and you think to yourself I'll just assemble some other piece while its drying and you run into this problem, I intend to contact them tomorrow and ask them to send me the missing parts , more of my build time taken up.
Sorry to have a moan but that’s how I feel right now.

Anyways I noticed on one of the other build threads that someone used a laser level to align the rear fuselage section, I copied this idea and yep its very accurate, basically I took a laser level and placed it on top of my camera tripod, aimed it at the fuselage and bingo, perfection, I had to do some other measuring though to make sure the top longerons were level but this worked really well.

PS That's a stick of balsa pinned in the centre at the rear of the fuselarge so I can see where the laser stricks.

Anyways I noticed on one of the other build threads that someone used a laser level to align the rear fuselage section, I copied this idea and yep its very accurate,

Now there's a good idea.  Been wondering how to check the rigging of my Triplane.   I think I might be stealing that idea too!

Thanks for that.

Alan

I have used them in a similar fashion.

I have used them in a similar fashion.

Cool, I like the needlework .

Cheers

Hi Vrooooom

Not only does the Laser 1.80 swing a larger prop and have a slightly higher output than the 1.50, it's also a lump heavier, which is of benefit in many scale models such as the Tiger Moth. In fact there is a note on the Laser site to prospective purchasers of the 1.80. It advises those who are seeking to use the engine in a 3D type aerobatic job to go for the 1.50 instead, as it's about 10 ounces lighter. In fact the Laser 1.50 is lighter than the OS 1.20 Surpass.

The 1.80 has been made deliberately butch to suit serious scale applications.

Don't let the fuel tank thing worry you Vrooooom. Neil Tidey recommends using a Perry Oscillating (vibration operated) pump/regulator in such situations. Works a treat too as the pump only works when the engines runs, so no flooding when it's not!    Leave the tank where it is and use a Perry!

P.S. Here you go Vroooom, the VP20 is the one you want.......  http://www.perrypumps.com/prod02.htm      Sussex Model Centre have them. I've used them for years, and they work!  

Hi I've had a look at the VP29 pump, looks good but I'm still concerned about the syphone effect concidering the tank is higher than the carb. it doesn't say if the pump has a check valve when not active, is this pump more suitable for systems that suffer from poor suction?
I'll send them an email see what they say.

Cheers vroooOOOM

Sorry, but I just had an inverted Laser 150 in mine and it behaved beautifully.

I fitted the tank at the lowest position and it never let me down.

Paul

Don't worry about it .I have several Lasers (addiction I think!!) all have the tank too high .The only problem I have  is fuel Pi@@ing out of the carb  if left with the throttle open on the ground. The engines run fine .I also have a 4 stroke type  perry pump which I don't bother with now .It defiantly cuts off the fuel supply when the engine is stopped. IMHO they are an unnecessary complication. All I do is close the throttle on the TX trim after a flight, to stop the fuel leaking out of the carb

Alan

Vroooom

The Perry VP20 cannot/will not allow the passage of fuel through it unless the engine is running! It works simply using vibration from the engine. There is no syphon effect. There's a simple little slug inside the body of the device, and that's it. There's an adjustment screw on the end of the body to regulate the fuel flow if required, but you'll probably never need to touch it.

Not only does the Perry VP20 "pump", it also regulates. Therefore it is suitable for any installation where a fuel supply (tank) is in a less than optimum position. They're pretty much a fit and forget item, and work very well.

Don't worry about it .I have several Lasers (addiction I think!!) all have the tank too high .The only problem I have  is fuel Pi@@ing out of the carb  if left with the throttle open on the ground. The engines run fine .I also have a 4 stroke type  perry pump which I don't bother with now .It defiantly cuts off the fuel supply when the engine is stopped. IMHO they are an unnecessary complication. All I do is close the throttle on the TX trim after a flight, to stop the fuel leaking out of the carb

Alan

Cheers Alan
I am aware that this can be a problem, I can always make sure the throttle is closed as I don't mind doing this but what about the slow screw? will this let by?

Cheers.

Vroooom

The Perry VP20 cannot/will not allow the passage of fuel through it unless the engine is running! It works simply using vibration from the engine. There is no syphon effect. There's a simple little slug inside the body of the device, and that's it. There's an adjustment screw on the end of the body to regulate the fuel flow if required, but you'll probably never need to touch it.

Not only does the Perry VP20 "pump", it also regulates. Therefore it is suitable for any installation where a fuel supply (tank) is in a less than optimum position. They're pretty much a fit and forget item, and work very well.

Thanks for that BrianB I may fit the tank at the lowest point and a pump so I know there's no fuel flow when the engine is off.

Cheers Alan
I am aware that this can be a problem, I can always make sure the throttle is closed as I don't mind doing this but what about the slow screw? will this let by?

Cheers.

As the Tiger has quite a pronounced nose-up attitude when at rest you may find the syphon effect is not a problem. Even if it is, if you have opening cowl cheeks couldn't you use one of these

(these from Midland Helicopters) to cut the fuel off?

Richard

As the Tiger has quite a pronounced nose-up attitude when at rest you may find the syphon effect is not a problem. Even if it is, if you have opening cowl cheeks couldn't you use one of these

(these from Midland Helicopters) to cut the fuel off?

Richard

oooOOOPS, I just realised who you are, sorry mate I've been pestering you on your own build thread for bits of info and only just realised your subscibed to my build thread, sorry.

Thanks for the info on the cowl hinges I intend to use piano hinges but now sorced the size yet, I don't have the means of making a metal cowl so Im toying with the idea of using chrome spray paint as this may give me the dsired effect.

Ath the momement I'm waiting for the delivery of my Laser 180 so I can mount the fuel tank and finish building the front section of the fusealarge, working shifts this week so I'm assembling the undercarage and have just done the silver solder job on the drag lugs, almost done, I'll post some photos before the end of the week.

Cheers vroooOOM

Build so far:

nice one vroo, always satisfying to see it on it's flippers.

Watch my lips Vroooom.

There is no fuel flow through a Perry VP20 when the engine is not running!    It'll be fine with the tank as is, no need to move it with a Perry. The Perry VP20 (and the other models too) will draw and regulate fuel easily from probably around 12 to 18 inces away from the tank, whether it be above, below or simply behind the engine.

Watch my lips Vroooom.

There is no fuel flow through a Perry VP20 when the engine is not running!    It'll be fine with the tank as is, no need to move it with a Perry. The Perry VP20 (and the other models too) will draw and regulate fuel easily from probably around 12 to 18 inces away from the tank, whether it be above, below or simply behind the engine.

OK OK you've sold it to me, where do i sign?

OK BrianB I'll fit one to be honest it does sound what I need, you don't happen to have shares in Perry do you?

Cheers vroooOOOM

oooOOOPS, I just realised who you are, sorry mate I've been pestering you on your own build thread for bits of info and only just realised your subscibed to my build thread, sorry.

Thanks for the info on the cowl hinges I intend to use piano hinges but now sorced the size yet, I don't have the means of making a metal cowl so Im toying with the idea of using chrome spray paint as this may give me the dsired effect.

Ath the momement I'm waiting for the delivery of my Laser 180 so I can mount the fuel tank and finish building the front section of the fusealarge, working shifts this week so I'm assembling the undercarage and have just done the silver solder job on the drag lugs, almost done, I'll post some photos before the end of the week.

Cheers vroooOOM

No problems!

The hinges I used are T22 on this page.

By the way, are you going for an accurate scale look, or sport scale? I ask because I've made quite a few modifications to the kit to represent a particular aircraft and I'm happy to share - but don't want to bog your thread down with scale discussions if you are aiming at sport scale.

Richard

No problems!

The hinges I used are T22 on this page.

By the way, are you going for an accurate scale look, or sport scale? I ask because I've made quite a few modifications to the kit to represent a particular aircraft and I'm happy to share - but don't want to bog your thread down with scale discussions if you are aiming at sport scale.

Richard

Thanks for the pointer on the hinges, the T22 look like they're on;y 1/82 long I was thinking of using a strip of hinges and run the full length of the cowl, obviously your way saves weight.
Sport/Scale Mmmmm well I'm not basing my moth on any particular aircraft but want something to be interesting enough to look at on the ground as well as in the air, is there a class called spale? or should that be scort??

to be honest its early days yet, I've not got anything specific in mind but I do like the finishing touches you have added to you moth so I may steal a few ideas along the way, colour scheme, I quite fancy Solartex, Cub yellow looks the favourite, don't want anything glossy hopefully this moth will evolve as tiem goes by.

Cheers for now Wayne

I was wrong - I used T18, not T22   Don't worry about weight up front, you'll probably need nose weight anyway!

Richard

Ah ha  Cheers

I want to fit gaitors to the pushrods on the undercarriage, stop any grime getting in to the suspention springs, anyone know where I can find some ready made? a friend said I could get some from an rc boat supplier, I've googled but no luck yet, they need to be 10mm dia x 30/40mm long.

I'm sure the RC speedboat lot use them on the throttles etc about that size.

Sport/Scale Mmmmm well I'm not basing my moth on any particular aircraft but want something to be interesting enough to look at on the ground as well as in the air, is there a class called spale? or should that be scort??

to be honest its early days yet, I've not got anything specific in mind but I do like the finishing touches you have added to you moth so I may steal a few ideas along the way, colour scheme, I quite fancy Solartex, Cub yellow looks the favourite, don't want anything glossy hopefully this moth will evolve as tiem goes by.

Cheers for now Wayne

The U/C as supplied in the kit is missing two struts that go up and back behind the supplied bits.



HTH

Richard

Wow that's a lot of research work, Mmmm maybe add to mine at a later date though. 

The U/C as supplied in the kit is missing two struts that go up and back behind the supplied bits.


HTH

Richard

I'm having a look at the options for control set up, don't like the kit suggested method of a secondary link mechanism, I'm thinking of keeping it all on the main servo cross members, I can't see that this will alter the elevator control because I've looked at the recommended mount and its the same height only orientated vertically!! If I mount everything on the main servo cross members I have easy access should I need to adjust anything. I assume there’s enough room for the pilot seat because this is where the throttle and aileron servo are mounted in the plan.

Rudder (left servo) Elevator (Centre servo) Throttle (Right servo)

Thoughts?

I'm sure the RC speedboat lot use them on the throttles etc about that size.

I still can't find any, I'm googled out.