Topic: FLAIR TIGER MOTH BUILD

Just to let you all know, I haven't fallen down a hole just been very busy , hope to get back working on the Tiggie soon.

Would you believe it, I caught some cheeky bugger snooping around my Tiggie.

Hi there !
I've just started with the Flair's Tiggie. A friend sold it to me as it was only catching dust on his garage 

I've made the fuselage with not many problems. I'm not very experienced kit builder, but I have many friends to ask.

Well, started over the wings this week and I've found a problem with the full plans.
I made a straight and reverse copy of the wing plans in order to use them for building process.
When I pinned the plans on the table, I noticed that trailing edges did not match plans.
Thought it was a problem with the copies I made, but original plans are wrong too !

On another forum the user has modified the trailing edge to fit the plans, but asked Flair and a boy called Archie told me that trailing edges are ok, but plans are stretched  , so suggested me to work on that .
How is it possible that a well known brand like Flair made such a big mistake?

Did you have the same problem? How have you solved it?

Thanks, and sorry for using this post 
Regards from Spain.

My plan was also large - I think the paper they used stretches when it gets damp, perhaps.

I just built to the size of the ribs, using the plan as a guide.

Hope this helps.

Richard

Hi RGN, my plans are smaller than kit pieces.
Wing ribs are about 1cm shorter on plans ...

Yes the plans are not exact, first build all the spars, be careful they are handed left, right upper and lower, I took a week of evenings to make mine but once this was done the wings build fairly quick.
OK lower wings,  lay the spars on the plan make sure the tip datum point is correct, don't worry about overhang at the root as this needs to be trimmed latter, slide the ribs onto the spars, roughly in place keep an eye on the tip datum point. right now set the rib where the trailing edge ends and the aileron starts as this is the critical points, now set the out rib for the aileron servo bay and then set all the other ribs, don't worry if they don't hit the trailing edge point on the plan but make sure they're vertical and square at the spars.
If you’re working on the top wings, again make sure you set the tip datum point then the tip rib and then the root rib check ribs are square etc. at spars and you should end up with 2 identical wings, take your time.
Hope this helps.

Ok, thanks.
All my other kits had real full plans, that's why I'm disappointed on this.
I've started with right top wing. I think it's easier.
I will start from the tip datum point, going to the root.

I will surely have much more questions ... hope you can help me again 

I work away a lot so I'll help when I can, this kit is a challenge but if your a competent builder you should be able to get over the inacuracies, while I remember again check everything when you come to the wing blocks lay averything out and study it, dry fit first but be carefull not to get the block stuck in the spares before gluing in place, don't fit the bass tubes with the achor plates untill wings have been covered.

I too have spoken to Archie, what a very helpfull chap even though he didn't design the Tiggie.

Who did design it - anyone know?

Tim

Well im back, how long for ? who knows, I've done some more work on the Tiggie, I've made the wing struts ready for the cross bracing and flying wires.
One thing I noticed is when I fitted the lower front to rear top bracing wire 290mm it seemed to induce a twist at the outer area of the top wing anyone know if this is correct? Don?

One thing I noticed is when I fitted the lower front to rear top bracing wire 290mm it seemed to induce a twist at the outer area of the top wing anyone know if this is correct? Don?

Yup if everything else is the correct size length etc the wire is the wrong length, make the incidence wires to suit 

Yup if everything else is the correct size length etc the wire is the wrong length, make the incidence wires to suit 

The plan says 290mm rod length if I make the rod to this length plus the threaded adaptors plus the clevis each end makes it way to long so I make the total lenth to include all the hardware 290mm seemed ok until I stood back and checked the incidence
290mm is obviosly too short, I wonder if when the prototype was built justa treaded 14g rod was used and the clevis srewed on each end the kit is supplied with a length of 14g wire from which one assumes that you cut the 290mm lenthd from, I'll have to do some fiddling, again  

In theory you should be able to work out the lengths via the side elevation on the plan is everything is built accurately but it invariably doesn't work out that way and they have to be made up to 'what is' rather than what should be.

Sorted, the rod lengths should be 235mm then solder the thread adaptors on then the clevis's after adjustment both rods will be 310mm from clevis pin to clevis pin.
You can see from the photo how the front and rear spars run parallel over the length of the wing, this was not the case in my previously posted photo, note; I levelled the fuselage with a spirit level

I now need to make up the front top to rear bottom rods

Hello V.,
Very interesting rod length problem.  I have never seen a Tiggy.  What does this rod do?  Is it the aileron rod to the upper wing from the bottom wing?
Take care,
Albert

Albert

Tiger Moth only has one set of ailerons - on the bottom wing. It's plenty for fun aeros on the full-size 

one thing was told on the Flair tiggy was the top wing dihedral is wrong........mine still flew fine but lost points in a BMFA scale do at Warboy's some years ago.......everyone seemed to know but me!.....

Isn't the fin/rudder shape wrong too, or is that one simply a rumour?

P.S. It isn't just the dihedral either Scaleman, the amount of sweepback differs from the lower wing too, but you probably knew that........ I've no idea if the Flair kit has this correct or not.    It is pointed out in the D B Sport & Scale version though, for all it's simplicity.

Hi Brian,

Yes i did....there's a lot wrong with the scale outline and would need maga changing if ever you wanted to enter a scale comp...the best bet is too build the Ducan Hutson.......that's al lot closer........but saying that the Flair version is an excellent version of the Tiggy...one you should be proud of.......it's a classic....

Isn't the fin/rudder shape wrong too, or is that one simply a rumour?
[snip]

Yes, I rebuilt it on mine - the lower one is correct.



Richard

Hi Scaleman/Richard

I'd heard the Flair version had a few minor inaccuracies, but as has been said it's a perfectly presentable representation. Agreed on the Hutson version. When it was introduced by DH it was noted for being accurate. I've not had the pleasure of seeing a completed Hutson Tiggie yet, but a friend does have an unstarted kit and it looks superb. I keep waving paper money under his nose and I'm up to Ł40 now, but he still won't part with it........

OK here's the final finish point for my wing dihedrals
I calculated that by measuring from the lower wing first rib to the end of the main spar box section 960mm.
and given 4 degree angle, from this I did a bit of Trigonometry to find the hypotenuse measurement, then used hypotenuse over adjacent to find the opposite(spar tip height) measurement - 67mm then added the distance from bottom of fuselage to bottom of main spar 11mm = 78mm used this measurement to set the dihedral while fuselage resting on flat surface, everything now lines up perfect.

Right now for the flying wires, I found that the supplied flat steel does not fit into the slitted end of the adjusters  MMmmmm I'm thinking of using some other method maybe steel cable with turnbuckles.
Has anyone got any advice for this system?

Can you open up the slot in the adjusters? That's what I'd do then silver solder the flat wire in place.

Muds

I threw out the Flair rigging and fitted Mick Reeves wire and turnbuckles. It worked realy well and looks nearer scale.

Regards

Clive

Can you open up the slot in the adjusters? That's what I'd do then silver solder the flat wire in place.

Muds

Hi Mudders
Yes I tried this but the adjusters are stainless steel and it weekens the fitting, that said I've been thinking of using another system as I dont really like the appearance of the flat steel.
Here's the finish I want to achieve.

I threw out the Flair rigging and fitted Mick Reeves wire and turnbuckles. It worked realy well and looks nearer scale.

Regards

Clive

Hi Clive
Thanks for that I think that'll do nicely, I've not done much research on using the turnbuckle system, can you offer some sort of tutorial. Pretty please

Wayne

Hi Wayne.

Regarding a tutorial, Mick has one on his web site which explains the process very well and I would urge you to read it as it makes it very simple to follow. It's located in the WW1 section near the bottom.

A recommendation would be to use Micks own silver solder and flux. I have tried others and they have worked but Micks seems to work best (not sure why).

Some where on my Strutter build blog (Clive's Strutter) I describe my method of joining the Wire to the clevis / turnbuckle which is slightly different to Micks in that I cut a slit in the end of the screw  for the wire to fit into. Mick does not think this is required but each to his own etc.

Let me know if you need any more info.

Regards

Clive

Hi Wayne.

Regarding a tutorial, Mick has one on his web site which explains the process very well and I would urge you to read it as it makes it very simple to follow. It's located in the WW1 section near the bottom.

A recommendation would be to use Micks own silver solder and flux. I have tried others and they have worked but Micks seems to work best (not sure why).

That's great, thanks Clive, I'll have a look over it later today as I'm off down the strip this morning, after almost 2 years in the build I am determined to complete my Tiggie, once I get the rigging sorted I'll be on the home straight so to speak.
Thanks again for the advice.
Regards   Wayne

Some nice turnbuckles here http://www.modellingtimbers.co.uk/35.html

Alan

They must have altered the kit because I didn't have any of these problems when I built mine. (Non-scale outlines apart) 

Ok I got back from the strip this morning and decided rather than mow the lawn which is now more like a field I had another look at the rigging wires, I placed the flat steel in a vice with about 5mm protruding upwards, took the slotted adaptor and with a very small hammer well actually it was a pair of pliers, tapped the adjuster onto the steel strip,  ^-^Mmmm then I got out my silver soldering gear and soldered, this looked good as a tight fit is best for silver soldering so decided to do the whole eight wires.
Here are the results.

Nice colour sheme Half throttle

Nice colour sheme Half throttle

Cheers - Based on "Echo-India" at Cambridge Flying Group.

Paul

Oh no I've just seen a Tiggie on Youube with the same colour scheme as I had in mind so I've decided to go for this old kite.
DH82 G-ADGT Built in 1935 was an RAF trainer also a crop sprayer in Sudan and then Norfolk and had a full restoration in1974.  Now used as a trainer again, it has had quite a chequered lifespan including a few crashes.

Oh no indeed!!! That, in my opinion, has to be one of the worst schemes possible. Seems to be a bit of this, bit of that, like a Chinese ARTF

You've built a beauty of a Moth, it deserves a better scheme!!

Obviously though, you can do whatever, but....   

Ian.