Topic: FLAIR TIGER MOTH BUILD

Did a little work on the top wing bolt access hatches last night.
Purchased some earth magnets from Giantcod.com made some magnet mounts out of bass wood, drilles to size and epoxy'd in, both hatches will be hindged later probably with covering material, flappy but work.
On the fusalarge underside access hatch I syno'd the magnets in and the metal washers, works fine, easier to work with and quicker.
Oh yeh the first photo shows some mounting blocks I fitted before covering, these are for attacting the carbane strut wires, I used 16g wire and will be making some collets/lugs out of brass tube.

Well I think I've decided what colour scheme to go for, originally I was thinking yellow solartex silver cowl easy and less work but after a while I thought well I really would like a camouflage theme so did a little research and this took my fancy.
It'll be more work but woth it.

Looks good - Have you seen this thread? Perhaps some more ideas for you amongst them.

Richard

Looks good - Have you seen this thread? Perhaps some more ideas for you amongst them.

Richard

Oh thanks Richard, I had no idea! I've just had a quick look and now I'm going to spend the rest of the evening drooling over the photos.
Cheers mate.

PS here's the Tiggie so far, I'm starting work well finishing off the tail section, I had made up the tail feathers earlier in the build when I was waiting for the Laser to arrive, this may take a while as I am about to start all my other winter stuff Language course, band practice, revive my eco8 electric heli, and I've just ordered a 1/16th scale tank, all I need do now is retire from work as its getting in the way!.
PPS Here's something I made last month just to keep myself occupied at work:

TRICOP (5)

[snip] all I need do now is retire from work as its getting in the way!.

Boy, can I identify with that!

Don't forget to keep the back end as light as possible!

Richard

Boy, can I identify with that!

Don't forget to keep the back end as light as possible!

Richard

OK will do.

Did some shaping tonight, I must admit I really don't enjoy this bit but I think if you take your time go carefull you'll get a good finish, I've done the fin and rudder tonight and hopefully do the tail and elevator tomorrow night.
The corrugated sheeting I ordered had arrived today so when I've finished the tail section I'll start work on the fuel tank corrugated covering.
I got it from the same place as Don Coe when he built his Tiggie (thanks Don)
I ordered it from here:
http://www.modelshop.co.uk/

and here's the product code:
Corrugated sheet, 3mm spacing (RD60077)
£8.43 +VAT a sheet, I purchased 2 sheets, postage was £6.12 ouch.

Very nice so far.  I am trying to modify an old Tiggy ARF to a more scale appearance.  The elevator rigging is stumping me a little.  Would you happen to have any pictures of the linkage and rigging for that yet?  I can see the rudder in one of the pictures and I am actually going to redo mine like that and scrap the bellcrank version I've been working on.  I assume the elevators is a simple setup like that as well.

Very nice so far.  I am trying to modify an old Tiggy ARF to a more scale appearance.  The elevator rigging is stumping me a little.  Would you happen to have any pictures of the linkage and rigging for that yet?  I can see the rudder in one of the pictures and I am actually going to redo mine like that and scrap the bellcrank version I've been working on.  I assume the elevators is a simple setup like that as well.

Hi Greg.
I decided to stick to the original plans, here's some photos, I,ve posted a photo of the plan also for the tail section.
Have a look at the rudder photos 1 is with the hindges fitted but not covered by the top layer of balsa which can be seen in the 2nd photo, Tailplane photo is made up by the same method.
Hope this helps.
PS the should be 4 hindge in the tailplan, even I have those moments!

OK just so you don't think I've given up on the build, here's a quick update, been really busy so only done a little more, started fitting the corrugated covering on the fuel tank, used the wife's hair dryer and some thick slow cure cyno, don't use flash cyno it'll melt the corrugation and split.

Well like I said I've been really busy again but found some time to shape the tail plane, will do the elevator tomorrow evening.
I'm a little concerned about the incidence of the tail plane, if I stand back and look at the line of the fuselage it looks like it’s too high at the front, this would give a nose down effect when flying Mmmmm I need some advice.

Try not to be too concerned regarding the tailplane incidence Vroooom, it's normal with Tiger Moths. I remember it being the same on both the Tiggies I've built in the past ( a Veron and a Don Stothers).

The plan on my current D. B. Sport & Scale Tiger Moth shows exactly the same thing too. Worry ye not........

Try not to be too concerned regarding the tailplane incidence Vroooom, it's normal with Tiger Moths. I remember it being the same on both the Tiggies I've built in the past ( a Veron and a Don Stothers).

The plan on my current D. B. Sport & Scale Tiger Moth shows exactly the same thing too. Worry ye not........

Thanks for the advice BrianB, thats very reassuring, I may have to adjust it slightly just to get the seating better between the supports and the tail plane.

Cheers vroooOOOM

Thanks for the advice BrianB, thats very reassuring, I may have to adjust it slightly just to get the seating better between the supports and the tail plane.

Cheers vroooOOOM

IIRC vroooOOOM, that's all I did. 

Paul

Well like I said I've been really busy again but found some time to shape the tail plane, will do the elevator tomorrow evening.
I'm a little concerned about the incidence of the tail plane, if I stand back and look at the line of the fuselage it looks like it’s too high at the front, this would give a nose down effect when flying Mmmmm I need some advice.

Built to the kit the incidences are spot on    The only thing I'd look at in the storybook is the dihedral angle. Lots of Flair Tigers end up with too little dihedral and look odd with the wings drooping like an oil soaked sea gull. I didn't follow the book (whether the book is right or wrong) since when I built mine it seemed that all of the Flair Tigers I saw were 'droopy' in the wing department so I assumed the book was incorrect and did the dihedral to suit myself and the documentation I had at the time.

Ian.

IIRC vroooOOOM, that's all I did. 

Paul

OK you got me,  what does IIRC mean?

If I Remember Correctly

OK you got me,  what does IIRC mean?

Sorry mate 

Force of habit.

If I Remember Correctly

Mmmmm not heard that 1, will do.

Ok done more sanding/shaping on the tail plane.

First finished shaping the elevator remembering that I want to keep the tail as light as possible without compromising strength.

Next I sorted the seating of the tail plane section and checked the fin for fitting, Mmmm sometimes these kits just don't do what they say on the box, the fin post was about 10mm short of finishing at the bottom of the fuselage, to correct this I had to reshape the tail plane supports, basically sand the soda down until the fin post was low enough, worked out quite well as I needed to get a good seating area between the tail plane and the mounting supports, once this was done I checked for alignment of the tail plane by measuring from the top wing mounting rod back to the tail plane tips and then pinned the tail plane section while I drilled some dowels, these were just some skewer stick I purchased down the supermarket perfect for what I wanted.
OK everything is looking good, this is one of those evenings when things seem to go well, at last some progress, well I'm quite pleased with my efforts so far, must say I don't like the fin strake, I may make a new one out of ply and laminate with balsa strips.
Next job will be to fit the control horns and get some covering on the tail feathers and fit to the fuselage.
Until then goodnight.

Hi, having built this kit I can confirm that the instructions re dihedral angle are incorrect. If you follow the instructions it gives to little dihedral. I based mine on the full size and that works fine.

Don Coe did a very comprehensive build thread on the Flair Tiger Moth here:-

http://www.rcscalebuilder.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3540&KW=don+coe

Its a very long thread but somewhere in the thread Don talks in detail about the dihedral and why its wrong and what it should be.

Hope this helps and good luck with the rest of the build

Clive

Hi, having built this kit I can confirm that the instructions re dihedral angle are incorrect. If you follow the instructions it gives to little dihedral. I based mine on the full size and that works fine.

Don Coe did a very comprehensive build thread on the Flair Tiger Moth here:-

http://www.rcscalebuilder.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3540&KW=don+coe

Its a very long thread but somewhere in the thread Don talks in detail about the dihedral and why its wrong and what it should be.

Hope this helps and good luck with the rest of the build

Clive

thanks for the advise, yes I am aware that the are some errors with the planes concerning the dihedral, I have read Don's build and will be refering to it when I come to building the wings hopefully befor xmass oooOOOPS sorry bad word.

Thanks again vroooOOOM

Ok done more sanding/shaping on the tail plane.

First finished shaping the elevator remembering that I want to keep the tail as light as possible without compromising strength.

Next I sorted the seating of the tail plane section and checked the fin for fitting, Mmmm sometimes these kits just don't do what they say on the box, the fin post was about 10mm short of finishing at the bottom of the fuselage, to correct this I had to reshape the tail plane supports, basically sand the soda down until the fin post was low enough, worked out quite well as I needed to get a good seating area between the tail plane and the mounting supports, once this was done I checked for alignment of the tail plane by measuring from the top wing mounting rod back to the tail plane tips and then pinned the tail plane section while I drilled some dowels, these were just some skewer stick I purchased down the supermarket perfect for what I wanted.
OK everything is looking good, this is one of those evenings when things seem to go well, at last some progress, well I'm quite pleased with my efforts so far, must say I don't like the fin strake, I may make a new one out of ply and laminate with balsa strips.
Next job will be to fit the control horns and get some covering on the tail feathers and fit to the fuselage.
Until then goodnight.

Are the dowels on the tailplane belt and braces?

Are the dowels on the tailplane belt and braces?

Yes, I looked at the surface area after shaping the supports and wasn't happy so I decided to add dowels, I have aslo made a small infill between the supports to increase the glued area.
I intend to fit a locating dowel for the fin too.

Keeping the tail feathers strong is a  sensible move the bu@@ars tip over on landing very easily my old 1/4 scale Mike Smart has been flying with a broken rudder tip for years!!

Alan

Keeping the tail feathers strong is a  sensible move the bu@@ars tip over on landing very easily my old 1/4 scale Mike Smart has been flying with a broken rudder tip for years!!

Alan

Thanks for that, I've been told to watch out for the taxing and noseing over on landing, i think there's a lot of rudder waggling in there somewhere too.

Cheers

Just filled the tail section with fillet and finished fitting the corrugated underside of the fuel tank, progress is a little slow at the moment but I don't want to rush things. next job is to fit the control horns to the tail sections before covering.

Changing the subject for a moment, has anyone got any suggestions on painting? should I was thinking of using an airbrush but recently saw some flair aerosols that are fuel proof, has anyone used these and if so are they easy to use?

Cheers for now.

I have found the flair spectrum paint not absolutely fuel proof even with straight glow fuel . The only paint I have used so far that is
guaranteed fuel proof is car finishing  two pack polyurethanes . The new ish waterbased two pack paints are supposed to be fuel proof as well, but I haven't used them yet. I know the polyurethane paints are very toxic. I use a dedicated respirator  mask from the paint supplier when using them.The water based paints are supposed to be much safer to use.  Phil at fighter aces supplies the water based paints in a range of colours, as will your local car finishing shop . When spraying an airframe in one colour  I use a gravity fed "touch up" sized spray gun rather than an airbrush.

Alan
  

I have found the flair spectrum paint not absolutely fuel proof even with straight glow fuel .

Thanks for your reply, Yes I have heard of people using 2 pack paint, does this make the weight even more so?

I have been thinking of trying one of those touch up car spray guns I have had some exsperiance spraying and they seem ideal for flashing over an airframe, i'm sure I could get the finish I want I only have 3 primary colour to spray camo on the top surfaces and yellow on the underside, I'll e sprying onto solatex so I can pencil a few lins on the top surface after spraying the underside and with a flowing hand so to speak finish the top surfaces, I plan to hand paint the roundalls and the lettering.
I'm not looking for a glossy finish so no need to go the 2 pack way.

Wonder what the top guys use?


Cheers  vroooOOOM

That spray gun is very much like mine .The car paint is high in pigment so it covers with a thin coat .I have never weighed the results . Fighter aces Phil does the camo colours, I have never tried to get these mixed at the local car finishing shop. I am about to use some of Phil's paint on a WW1 project but I will be brushing .I will post on my results  when finished.

Alan

That spray gun is very much like mine .The car paint is high in pigment so it covers with a thin coat .I have never weighed the results . Fighter aces Phil does the camo colours, I have never tried to get these mixed at the local car finishing shop. I am about to use some of Phil's paint on a WW1 project but I will be brushing .I will post on my results  when finished.

Alan

Thanks, its good to know I'm on the right track so to speak, look forward to seeing your results.

Cheers Wayne

Phil Clarke's "Warbirds Colours" are water based, high pigmented paints. They dry to a satin finish and are glow fuel proof. They do require the addition of a few drops of catalyst (supplied with the paint).
Have a look here: http://www.fighteraces.co.uk/ Click on Warbirds colours in the left hand column for details.



   Tom

Phil Clarke's "Warbirds Colours"  Click on Warbirds colours in the left hand column for details.
   Tom

WOW these are perfect, thanks Tom.

I'll put these on my Xmas list ready for when the wife asks what would I like te he

Hi VrooooooooooooOOOOOOOOOOOOOM

could you help please?

I recently bought a built, Flair Tiggy, but it didn't come with plans or details.

 I've been re servo-ing it and installing my Radio etc and its almost ready to fly...

Could you post the following info for me

Aileron, elevator deflection   and the Cof G.

 Anybody who has owned and flown one, your guidance / advice would be appreciated, but could you  please PM me as I don't want to hijack this build thread...

 Are you putting 2 elevator servos in it.. Mine only has one and I'm considering modifying it as hundreds of hours of scale detailing has gone into the model... It would be a real shame for it to be destroyed for the lack of a second servo on the ele...  There again resiliance is my middle name

Cheers in advance

Shaun

Hi VrooooooooooooOOOOOOOOOOOOOM

Cheers in advance

Shaun

Hi Shaun
I'm fitting a single servo as per plan (see photo).
As for the throws, MMmmm I've just had a look through the build notes and can't see anything about the throws, I'm sure someone out there will intervene and post them for you/us just give it an hour or so.
If you've not flown anything this size yet I'd suggest you get someone in the know to give it the once over, not trying to teach you how to suck eggs but it pays in the long run, have you looked the flair tiger moths video's on youtube? You can see how they have their own unique flight character.

AH ha I've just realised the throws are on the photo too, I'll try and find theCG for you.


Hope this helps VroooOOOM

Thanks Vroom,

I've flow 1/3rd scale WW1 models, so the size of this tiddler    isn't the issue.

What I meant to say  was does this model have any idiosyncrasies, odd behaviour in flight....

Forewarned  and forearmed etc    

 Thanks for the help so far....

How long do you recon to it's first flight ?

 One mod I would consider is changing the Aileron geometry...  because as shown on the plan is  mechanically poor and there is loads of slop in the linkage due to the pushrod bending.

I've used Hitec servos with the HD LS arm, (3rd hole out). This pokes out of the wing allowing you to use a straight pushrod to the aileron  horn. I used a quick link on the servo and a bolt thru ball joint on the other end.. Virtually no slop, very positive. I have had to make a couple of blisters to cover the servo horn end to tidy it up.. I'll post a couple of pics later tonight for you to look at.

 I would guess that the plan idea was to give you differential when most Tx's didn't have that facility electronically.

 I would still use 2 elevator servos if I was building it though, just to be safe.

Cheers,

Shaun

I've just posted the CG etc in the second photo, previos post.
First flight??? well I'm not rushing her I don't have a lot of spare time at the moment so I'm doing what and when I can but I'm hoping to start the wings just in the new year so hopefully she'll be rolled out in the spring.
Next week I want to get the tail feather covered ready for fiting to the fus.

Glad to help Wayne
PS post soem photos of your Tiggie if you can, have to go now I'm off for the weekend. cheers

Wing servo pushrod mod...

Cheers,

Shaun

My 1/4 scale Tiggy is a Mike Smart but I have flown Don Coe's Flair one . Its a typical bigish lightly loaded biplane .It turns better with a nudge on the rudder when initiating the  turn, and it lands better if a bit of power is left on so the model runs out on the ground  with some elevator authority. This stops the bu@@ar tipping over and busting the rudder tip. My 30% practical scale one is  very much the same. They are a nice relaxing model to fly.

Alan

Thanks Alan

Maybe I should put a skid on like the Avro 504  to save the tail

Rgds,

Shaun