Topic: Nationals 2010

Is it possible to not have a cross wind in a circle? 

Sheridan

Is it possible to not have a cross wind in a circle? 

Sheridan

Of course it is, but only in "no wind" conditions.

Joke?? 

a gentle breeze all day- running down EVERY runway and  CLOCKWISE on each of the CL circles

(Hope I got the direction right dont do C/L)

Just to put the record straight, The guy that was doing the slotting on the showline was new to the job, and rather a big task at a big event if you've never done it before!
I have worked on the showline for a few years now organising the jet jocks, so know most of the pilots and their type of models, which is a great help. Due to the horrendous weather conditions, and the fact that quite a few models and pilots that were booked in to fly never turned up, made things rather difficult, to say the least

The running programme that I had could only be used as a rough guide, and in my case as jet pilots organiser, it was a case of making up slots with 4 suitable jets to fill that slot, also a few models needed a solo slot due to their complexity and cost that the pilot/owner would only fly his model with the sky to himself, models like Paul Dunkley's Goshawk, and Mark Hinton's F14 Tomcat.

Although Saturday was a challenge, I managed to get all my pilots as much flying as was available to me, taking over prop slots that had fallen by the wayside due to the windy conditions.

unfortunately we did loose some valuable flying time with the occasional Squalls, but fly they did, as Sunday was a washout due to the strong windy conditions.

Joke?? 

Yes it was a joke, surely as long as there is wind, there will always be a crosswind if you are flying in a circle?

Sheridan

Vince, just to put the record straight, no one is having a go at you I’m certainly not, you do a grand job. Unfortunately the tools you and the other guy were given to work with were either blunt or broken!

Vince

I wouldn't take any of whats been said personally, as far as i know none of it is directed at you. Your attitude and friendliness is a polar opposite to the ones that have been complained about  

Dunc

Yes it was a joke, surely as long as there is wind, there will always be a crosswind if you are flying in a circle?

Sheridan

"Joke":  a story with a humorous climax.

"Joke":  a story with a humorous climax.

"joke" for people who have a sense of humour....

lighten up! 

Sheridan

Sorry to have gone off topic.

My post should have read Moan , moan, whinge, BMFA's fault, bad weather, showline, Moan , moan, whinge, Moan , moan, whinge BMFA's fault!!  repeat 30 times and storm off in a foul mood.

I dont think that many - any shows could have done better in the conditions.

There's a BMFA Nats whinge thread every year. But every time I go there always seems to be loads of people there. So I guess the whinging isn't necessarily a view shared by everyone!

Z

Fortunately there will be a number of changes to next years showline and I think we all may well be pleased to say goodbye to some things.

Keith, Perhaps you could clarify your comments?

Information has come through to say this comment is untrue.

Steve

IMAC stuff you can see any any given show anywhere. I never get to see people screwing themselves into the floor anywhere else. Didn't compete this year, but went along specifically to watch CL combat and CL speed and team race as I always missed it due to competing in previous years and have always wanted to see it. Didn't disappoint! Sadly didn't manage to see any CL aerobatics whilst I was there... Different strokes mate!

Z

Indeed it is, it just seems that the MAJORITY want to see IMAC in preference to some other discipline, we have to cater for the majorities whilst not forgetting the minorities.

J

IMAC was very accessible, there was a marshalled roadway across to the compound with access anytime there wasn't a pylon race in action. IMAC simply cannot fit anywhere else, they take up a lot of sky!!

In general I would say the combined spectators at the control line circles outweighs any other discipline.

You probably would but then again many people wouldn't agree with you 

J

Hi all,
First, I am not a fan of Top Gun on the showline, BUT, the changes proposed for this year, in my opinion, would have went a long way to resolving the issue.
It is my understanding that the TG fly of was to be from 5pm on Sunday, not 12 as before. Due to the weather we didn't get a chance to see how this would have worked, so I think it is harsh to continue to 'attack' TG when the solution may have already been found. Pity we didn't get a chance to find out.

As it has been said before, the weather made a mockery out of the pre planned slotting, so any show was a major achievement by those organising the event. I think they did a good job on the fly, between strong crosswinds, heavy rain and damaged models. Well done Vince and the rest of the team.

Peter

Still a great hobby and a great event.

Absolutely

I will return next year when I expect warm weather, no rain , no crosswinds (on any runway or c/l circle) and flat calm/ bright evenings for some free flight

Come on then, what do you know that we dont? Where are the nats being held because it can't be Barkston any more with your criteria 

J

Gentlemen

If you are not happy with certain things on the showline then may I suggest you write to the CEO David Phipps at admin@bmfa.org.uk and say so, this will be more effective than moaning on here.

This is the way changes will happen, after all it is our Nationals!

trouble is we've done that Firefox (ive written to the BMFA every year for the last 3 i can think of)and it falls on deaf ears year in year out so whats the point???

Indeed it is, it just seems that the MAJORITY want to see IMAC in preference to some other discipline, we have to cater for the majorities whilst not forgetting the minorities.

J

Where did you get the idea that the majority want to see IMAC rather than CL?  Any data from this forum doesn't count - just think what the first two letters of the name stand for....

Where did you get the idea that the majority want to see IMAC rather than CL?  Any data from this forum doesn't count - just think what the first two letters of the name stand for....

May i ask why any data from this forum doesnt count wher ethere are so many members and different disciplines catered for?

where was the survey for "who wants to see IMAC" i must have missed it, that said if you sat on the scale line on monday you could get a good view of both,  oh! and if you find the survey, Would you like the IMAC to take over the airfield in preference to C/L.    put me down for a NO would you

  cheers

  cj

May i ask why any data from this forum doesnt count wher ethere are so many members and different disciplines catered for?

Because it's primary a forum for Radio Controlled Models - Hence the name of RCMF.

Control Line planes aren't RC.  So statistically using data from the forum for a question of RC v CL is invalid.

Ahh.. i see. But the forum caters for all, so why cant the members that do Controlline, be used as data?

to be honest, i liked all the aspects i saw of flying over the weekend just gone. The carrier landings looked ace. control line looked fast!!. Didnt go down to the main line though. Just meandered a bit.

Ahh.. i see. But the forum caters for all, so why cant the members that do Controlline, be used as data?

As a professional statistician I could answer that.  However this is not really the place for such a discussion....

Suffice to say that a thread that started on the subject of the RC showline at the Nats isn't likely to have much input from those control line fliers that have no interest in RC at all.  And there are plenty of them!

I'm still interested to know where the data came from that said that IMAC was more popular than CL.

PERSONALLY I've got very little interest in IMAC or F3A.  However if I did I can watch it ever week at my club.  We even hosted a round of the GBRCAA championship a couple of weeks ago.

My chances of watching top notch control line combat (F2D) are few and far between.  At the Nats this year there were at least two World Champions competing in F2D.  I wonder how many other disciplines could say that?

control line combat, is that the planes that dont just go round in circles and can have streamers on their tails??

forgive me as i know nothing about control line, but my eldest was very impressed with it and wants to learn that aswell as RC. But as i know nothing about control line, im not quiter sure how to advise her.

control line combat, is that the planes that dont just go round in circles and can have streamers on their tails??

forgive me as i know nothing about control line, but my eldest was very impressed with it and wants to learn that aswell as RC. But as i know nothing about control line, im not quiter sure how to advise her.

Yes it is.  I'd suggest contacting the BMFA to find a CL club near to you.  BTW One of the best pilots in the World is a young lady from Moldova - Natasha Dementjeva.

Well, the Nats for me this year was a nightmare - but that may have had something to do with me being the overall CD for Scale.

Record entry and probably record wind strengths - at least during my 15 year involvement.
When I woke up on Monday, I was happy that the wind strength had dropped but unhappy that I had to use my cross runway as this makes the scale circuit conflict with Heli and Fun Fly - really sorry guys as the combination of my bigger aircraft and the wind strength contributed to our high conversation levels on the radio.

Anyway, I moved my flightline to a never before used spot for F4c and things seemed to improve.  Civil interaction always gets results......

Thanks Mat for your comment on the commentary - this has been lacking on the scale line in the recent past and I decided to go for Martin Fardell and John Carpenter this year.  I think they complimented one another superbly - it was great to hear the laughs amongst our 3 deep crowd on the Monday - 

Also glad the chat with Ian B helped re documentation.  I have cleared my diary for Hop Farm, so can help with anything else there - even pitting as my right arm is no longer in a sling!

Oh and Simon W, that was my dad's Mach 2 Tiggie on downwind finals - it coped pretty well in the air itself, but for some reason didn't want to land in the 27mph gusts!!  By far the most challenging conditions it has flown in during it's 11 season career.

Graham Kennedy

control line combat, is that the planes that dont just go round in circles and can have streamers on their tails??

More or less Maz!  It's a L-O-N-G time since I did any combat,  and never at any serious sort of level,  but yes,  each plane tows a streamer and the aim is to cut your opponents streamer without letting them cut yours.  Fast and frantic!

As a professional statistician I could answer that.  However this is not really the place for such a discussion....

Suffice to say that a thread that started on the subject of the RC showline at the Nats isn't likely to have much input from those control line fliers that have no interest in RC at all.  And there are plenty of them!

But this point is being raised from a spectator point of view.

I'm still interested to know where the data came from that said that IMAC was more popular than CL.

No data, just look at the spectators

PERSONALLY I've got very little interest in IMAC or F3A.  However if I did I can watch it ever week at my club.  We even hosted a round of the GBRCAA championship a couple of weeks ago.

We too have hopsted GBRCAA, from a spectator point of view I'd rather stick pins in my eyes. Very skilled but not a spectator discipline.

My chances of watching top notch control line combat (F2D) are few and far between.

I accept there is a great deal of skill involved BUT I don't accept it is a majority spectator pleaser.

At the Nats this year there were at least two World Champions competing in F2D.  I wonder how many other disciplines could say that?

Well as 'a professional statistician' you shouldn't have to ask, it would in my view be all of them... Am I right?

The Nats is brilliant, there are a few improvements that could and should be made but it's still the biggest and the best in the UK bar none. Well done to all concerned especially the fools brave people that flew in these horrendous conditions, well done!

J

My chances of watching top notch control line combat (F2D) are few and far between.  At the Nats this year there were at least two World Champions competing in F2D.  I wonder how many other disciplines could say that?

Also in C/L Speed (F2A) the British team recently returned from the World Championships as the winning team,  having taken 2nd, 3rd and 5th places individually.  I know for certain 2 of the team were flying at the Nationals and would be very surprised if the 3rd member wasn't flying too.  As with combat,  world class!

Hi Mick, Dunc & Peter,

many thanks for your kind comments, (and no offence taken ) I do like to try and give 100% to the job I'm doing, and as I love the jet line and all the guys that fly them, it was great to be able to try and sort out some kind of flying sequence for all your models so that we could put on the best show for the public from our side of the field, and I'm proud to say that we put on a good show under the extreme conditions

And thanks guys for braving the weather and risking your valuable models in getting a show on the road

Yes Ali was greatly missed this year, and we worked well together on past years, but he had to do what he had to do and nobody can blame a man for standing by his ground.

Maybe things will change next year, who knows, but we will all have to just wait and see what is decided at Leicester.

But this point is being raised from a spectator point of view.
No data, just look at the spectators
We too have hopsted GBRCAA, from a spectator point of view I'd rather stick pins in my eyes. Very skilled but not a spectator discipline.
I accept there is a great deal of skill involved BUT I don't accept it is a majority spectator pleaser.

Well as 'a professional statistician' you shouldn't have to ask, it would in my view be all of them... Am I right?

The Nats is brilliant, there are a few improvements that could and should be made but it's still the biggest and the best in the UK bar none. Well done to all concerned especially the fools brave people that flew in these horrendous conditions, well done!

J

I'm sorry but you are just getting this dead wrong. The name of the event is the "Nationals" as in the National Championships. If you want to make a showline for spectators etc then that's one thing, but please don't start trying to apply some crowd pleaser nonsense to the emphasis placed on events which are there to decide a national champion. The events get put where it is most sensible for the BMFA to put them in order for their comp to run most effectively. I accept that IMAC needs a bit of sky that's fairly large, so can't see a problem with where it is placed. I mean if you've driven to the Nats, what's the hardship in a short drive across a bit of a field to get to the spectator area for IMAC?

You will create something that is nothing if you try to make treat the Nationals as a spectator event. It ISN'T that. Fine, do something spectatorish on the showline if you want, but don't be daft and start trying to dilute the purpose of the Nationals! Massive attendance every year to watch the NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIPS - what's the problem? Same old gripes year after year but the crowds still keep coming to watch the NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIPS - see the point I'm getting at here?

It's NOT a show. The showline might be, but don't confuse that with the Nationals.

Zim

It's NOT a show. The showline might be, but don't confuse that with the Nationals.

That is semantics, to the non hobby general public who attend it is a show because that is how it is marketed.

I don't think there needs to be any change in where the events are, it all makes sense with the biggest airspace users on the far side of the airfield going down to the tethered aircraft nearer the campsite and closer together.

Just a couple of small changes such as signs and event details would transform the event in my opinion. It is all well and good saying if you don't know what is going on then just ask. Some people don't like asking either because they are shy or don't want to disturb someone preparing for their event and they would soon get tired of getting bugged if everyone asked them.

I don't buy the fact that the National body can't provide the signs for the National Championships, it sounds more like they can't be bothered or don't want to provide them, "Can't" is not the issue.

I don't think there is anything wrong with the Nats, I go every year, the showline needs some tweeking sure but fundamentally it is a great event which is why there are alot of people attend but it could be awesome, not only "the biggest event in Europe" but it could also be the best.

Sheridan

Actually I completely agree with you about the signs. That is a very good idea.

But it is certainly not semantics to distinguish between a show and the Nationals.

Z

Actually, it was my idea...

But it is certainly not semantics to distinguish between a show and the Nationals.

Ok, I worded it badly 

To the general public who are not involved in the hobby, the way the show event is marketed would lead them to believe they are going to a show.

It is misleading which could make the Public feel that the pilots on the lines other than the showline are flying for their benefit when in reality it is the reverse and the public are lucky to be able to view the events.

Sheridan

Actually, it was my idea...

Absolutely, I am not trying to take any credit for it, just support it.  

I love the Nats and have been to everyone since 1982 apart from when Barkston Heath was being resurfaced and it went to Fairford (IIRC?) for two years.

I am not moaning for the sake of it, I am moaning because I love it and want it to fulfill it's full potential, big difference.

Sheridan

I'm sorry but you are just getting this dead wrong. The name of the event is the "Nationals" as in the National Championships. If you want to make a showline for spectators etc then that's one thing, but please don't start trying to apply some crowd pleaser nonsense to the emphasis placed on events which are there to decide a national champion. The events get put where it is most sensible for the BMFA to put them in order for their comp to run most effectively. I accept that IMAC needs a bit of sky that's fairly large, so can't see a problem with where it is placed. I mean if you've driven to the Nats, what's the hardship in a short drive across a bit of a field to get to the spectator area for IMAC?

You will create something that is nothing if you try to make treat the Nationals as a spectator event. It ISN'T that. Fine, do something spectatorish on the showline if you want, but don't be daft and start trying to dilute the purpose of the Nationals! Massive attendance every year to watch the NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIPS - what's the problem? Same old gripes year after year but the crowds still keep coming to watch the NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIPS - see the point I'm getting at here?

While I agree with most of what you're saying Zim, I'm sorry but (the highlighted part) is just plain misguided.  There's no better way of encouraging people into these different disciplines than knowing what they're watching at a competition.  They probably won't want to compete but it might encourage them to 'have a go'. 


Mark.

ZIM - I agree completely with your post #190.  If the BMFA want to run a "show" for the public let them do so but not at the Nationals which should be something special and unique run for the benefit of the competitors.  

Actually, it was my idea...

Actually,  this idea was mooted--must be 5 years ago, at nats planning, and every year i was at that meeting,  always, the answer was the same,  its down to the CDs,      will it ever get done?   the BMFA dont listen,  so i spose the answer is a sad no,

1 thing i would like,   a wash block down at trade,  lot of guys tent it down there, and had to drive up to the camp site for a wash and brush up,  whats that all about?  there used to be one, and another near the funfly site,    they are dear things to hire in,  but they are needed ,

i also tried to get have a go circles, for the c/l,  this only exists--or did, on carrier,      had a go last year--GREAT fun,   theres enough room,  

on monday,   there is no better place to be than c/l team race,    the atmosphere is electric,     but we sat there EONS, wondering just what was going on,       the whole nats lacks communication to the public,      i gather that on the scale line,   all was well,    i didnt go, so dont know,   all i did was work all weekend              

That is semantics, to the non hobby general public who attend it is a show because that is how it is marketed.

I would be interested in why you think it is marketed as a show. As far as I can see it is marketed as the BMFA National Championships, in fact all the yellow direction signs say that, and perhpas they really ought to also say something like "and Model Airshow" as many people won't know what the BMFA National Championships.

Just a couple of small changes such as signs and event details would transform the event in my opinion. It is all well and good saying if you don't know what is going on then just ask. Some people don't like asking either because they are shy or don't want to disturb someone preparing for their event and they would soon get tired of getting bugged if everyone asked them.

I don't buy the fact that the National body can't provide the signs for the National Championships, it sounds more like they can't be bothered or don't want to provide them, "Can't" is not the issue.

I agree info boards are needed for the events but that does need to be down to the specialist bodies that run the individual lines as they are the experts. As for signs, personally I don't think they are needed, the maps on the back of the program give all the information as to what is where, and your suggestion of  "can't be bothered" shows an ignorance of how hard those involved work to make the event a success.