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Author Topic: Hanno Prettner 64" CURARE  (Read 17762 times)

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Offline Newalan

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Hanno Prettner 64" CURARE
« on: December 08, 2010, 17:01:51 PM »
If I can sort out the heating problem in my garage/workshop  I will be building 64" Curare.  The old and bold among you will know that the "Curare" was the most advanced Pattern Ship of the 70's designed and flown by by many times World Aerobatic Champion Hanno Prettner.

I am bidding for an industrial workshop heater on eBay similar to one shown below if I win it I will probably start the build straight after Christmas sometime.




Below is the photo of Curare

It will have OS 61 with Tuned pipe with trike Air retracts, and will include landing brakes/flaps.  The suggested all up weight should be 7-8 lbs   (3.6 to 3.8kg approx).

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Offline Gumball

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Re: Hanno Prettner 64" CURARE
« Reply #1 on: December 08, 2010, 17:14:03 PM »
Nice plane, nice colour scheme!  :-*

Good luck with the build and I'm relieved you're not going to electrocute electrify it!  :af
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Offline Newalan

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Re: Hanno Prettner 64" CURARE
« Reply #2 on: December 08, 2010, 21:18:47 PM »
Nice plane, nice colour scheme!  :-*

Good luck with the build and I'm relieved you're not going to electrocute electrify it!  :af

I am not a great fan of Electric, I think an OS 61 with a tuned pipe is the only way forward with this particular model.

Alan
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Offline The Saint. (Owen)

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Re: Hanno Prettner 64" CURARE
« Reply #3 on: December 08, 2010, 21:33:49 PM »
Why not use a 91 without the tuned pipe and save a bit of weight.  :)
Electrickery is the work of the devil,  proper aeroplanes are powered by engines.

Offline Newalan

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Re: Hanno Prettner 64" CURARE
« Reply #4 on: December 08, 2010, 21:38:13 PM »
Why not use a 91 without the tuned pipe and save a bit of weight.  :)

That is a very good suggestion, I will have to work out the weight difference and power output from each and decide.

Alan
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Offline Evil Homer

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Re: Hanno Prettner 64" CURARE
« Reply #5 on: December 08, 2010, 21:40:25 PM »
But a red head OS61 Hanno on song with that tuned pipe, bliss!
        However you do need those flaps to slow done that 11-12" pitch.
U-Can-Do 46 - OS91FS   Summit - OS61Hanno   Wilco
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Offline Newalan

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Re: Hanno Prettner 64" CURARE
« Reply #6 on: December 08, 2010, 21:53:42 PM »
But a red head OS61 Hanno on song with that tuned pipe, bliss!
        However you do need those flaps to slow done that 11-12" pitch.

Yes I know I owned one back in the 80's and they do travel over the national speed limit on landing (well maybe not fast) lol

Alan
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Offline Evil Homer

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Re: Hanno Prettner 64" CURARE
« Reply #7 on: December 08, 2010, 21:57:20 PM »
Are you building from a plan or kit?

I still have 2 of those Hanno 61's, would love to get them in the air again.
U-Can-Do 46 - OS91FS   Summit - OS61Hanno   Wilco
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Offline Newalan

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Re: Hanno Prettner 64" CURARE
« Reply #8 on: December 08, 2010, 21:59:43 PM »
Are you building from a plan or kit?

I still have 2 of those Hanno 61's, would love to get them in the air again.

Building from a Plan with (short kit) from US.
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Offline Evil Homer

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Re: Hanno Prettner 64" CURARE
« Reply #9 on: December 08, 2010, 22:04:14 PM »
U-Can-Do 46 - OS91FS   Summit - OS61Hanno   Wilco
Excitation - ST23           EF Yak 55 SP - E
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Offline Newalan

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Re: Hanno Prettner 64" CURARE
« Reply #10 on: December 08, 2010, 22:05:54 PM »
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Offline dave.windymiller

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Re: Hanno Prettner 64" CURARE
« Reply #11 on: December 09, 2010, 00:59:17 AM »
Go for it, you wont be sorry. Then you can build a magic to go with it!

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Online Michael_Rolls

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Re: Hanno Prettner 64" CURARE
« Reply #12 on: December 09, 2010, 05:41:37 AM »
Cor!!
Mike :af :af
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Offline Andy J

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Re: Hanno Prettner 64" CURARE
« Reply #13 on: December 09, 2010, 07:45:37 AM »
I have reported this thread as I thought the posting of pron was not allowed.  :''
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Offline Newalan

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Re: Hanno Prettner 64" CURARE
« Reply #14 on: December 09, 2010, 08:42:27 AM »
Curare and the Magic too top man,  don't care much about the modern Patern Ships but those two have a character and the performance to go with it.

Alan
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Offline Newalan

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Re: Hanno Prettner 64" CURARE
« Reply #15 on: December 09, 2010, 09:08:46 AM »
Go for it, you wont be sorry. Then you can build a magic to go with it!

My pride and joys.




I am building from a plan with a short kit and there is no additional information. Any idea what the control throws should be for Aileron, Elevator and the Rudder?  I have a rough idea as to what it should be but knowing the exact throws will help.

Thanks in advance

Alan
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Offline Evil Homer

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Re: Hanno Prettner 64" CURARE
« Reply #16 on: December 09, 2010, 09:34:00 AM »
Hi Alan,
How bout a build thread, really keen to see the progress on this. 
U-Can-Do 46 - OS91FS   Summit - OS61Hanno   Wilco
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Offline Newalan

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Re: Hanno Prettner 64" CURARE
« Reply #17 on: December 09, 2010, 09:37:33 AM »
Hi Alan,
How bout a build thread, really keen to see the progress on this. 

Oh yes there will be a build thread but I can't see me strating the build before Christmas.  I don't think the ministry of home affairs would be very impressed if I strated just before Christmas.

Alan   :''
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Offline skirmish

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Re: Hanno Prettner 64" CURARE
« Reply #18 on: December 09, 2010, 16:17:29 PM »
I built two from the plan back in the late 70's. I was only in my late teens at the time and I remember them as quite a build as I'd not had experience of building such big models at the time. I'll try and scan some pics of them and post them later.
Mine were powered by a HP61 rear induction and used a pipe too. Loved em right up to the point when they hit the ground.............FAST! One of those incidents was caused by local CB use, the other I can't remember. Rather tragically I remember listening to the Stylistics on the radio on the journey home singing Lets Put It All Together......... :'( Unfortunately there was no chance of that happening!

Great plane though. Build it well and you'll have a true classic in your hanger!

Offline Newalan

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Re: Hanno Prettner 64" CURARE
« Reply #19 on: December 09, 2010, 16:32:00 PM »
I built two from the plan back in the late 70's. I was only in my late teens at the time and I remember them as quite a build as I'd not had experience of building such big models at the time. I'll try and scan some pics of them and post them later.
Mine were powered by a HP61 rear induction and used a pipe too. Loved em right up to the point when they hit the ground.............FAST! One of those incidents was caused by local CB use, the other I can't remember. Rather tragically I remember listening to the Stylistics on the radio on the journey home singing Lets Put It All Together......... :'( Unfortunately there was no chance of that happening!

Great plane though. Build it well and you'll have a true classic in your hanger!

Sorry to hear that you lost yours, the build looks very staright forward I can probably build it in around 50 -60 hours.

Yes it is large model however I am no stranger to models as big as 1/3 scale Piper Cubs of 12 ft wing span and 1/4 scale Hurricanes and Spitfires of 88 inches wing span.

Compared to scale warbirds this one feels like a walk in the park, apart from that I must have built no less than 60 models of all types since the early 80's when I first started.

Not starting the build until after Christmas though.

Alan
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Offline HarryC

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Re: Hanno Prettner 64" CURARE
« Reply #20 on: December 09, 2010, 16:35:41 PM »
Oh beautiful model!  Good choice Alan, the Curare is one of those models I really wanted but never got around to building.  I loved the pattern models and the pattern style of flying of the 70s.  Saw Wolfgang Matt flying Arrow in '78, that was fantastic, have seen Hanno flying but it was at Sandown in mid 80s and wasn't a pattern model.  I still have a YS 60 2-stroke and pipe, which would love to fit into a Curare.

Offline Newalan

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Re: Hanno Prettner 64" CURARE
« Reply #21 on: December 09, 2010, 16:58:19 PM »
Oh beautiful model!  Good choice Alan, the Curare is one of those models I really wanted but never got around to building.  I loved the pattern models and the pattern style of flying of the 70s.  Saw Wolfgang Matt flying Arrow in '78, that was fantastic, have seen Hanno flying but it was at Sandown in mid 80s and wasn't a pattern model.  I still have a YS 60 2-stroke and pipe, which would love to fit into a Curare.

Nice to see there are a few of us who still remember the good old days, these days majority of people are knee deep in ARTF.

Don't get me wrong nothing wrong with ARTF, but you don't build them you assemble them. Nothing beats good old fashioned Balsa bashing with your own stamp on the model. Eventually due to ARTF the skills will be lost for good.

Alan
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Re: Hanno Prettner 64" CURARE
« Reply #22 on: December 09, 2010, 20:40:47 PM »
VERY SUNSCRIBED,     :af   please fit a 61,   its a 61&pipe machine,    lovely jubbly

incidently,  i started a now quiet thread on classic aerobatic models,    worth a dig out and a look :)

Offline skirmish

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Re: Hanno Prettner 64" CURARE
« Reply #23 on: December 09, 2010, 20:45:43 PM »
As promised here is a pic of my first. Apologies for the image quality and I'm afraid that the only pic I have of my second is a really small Polaroid so not much point scanning that!

Online Rafale

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Re: Hanno Prettner 64" CURARE
« Reply #24 on: December 10, 2010, 09:57:25 AM »
Subscribed!! :af

Have the plan and is on the to do list after the Capricorn restoration and Tornado build and Bob Violett Bobcat, pylon racer not jet.

Going with the Chip Hyde Webra in mine.

I also want the Magic, I need to try to get the plans for.

Good luck with this.

Nige.

Offline Newalan

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Re: Hanno Prettner 64" CURARE
« Reply #25 on: December 10, 2010, 10:54:48 AM »
You have quite a list of things to do there Nige
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Offline Newalan

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Re: Hanno Prettner 64" CURARE
« Reply #26 on: December 10, 2010, 10:58:38 AM »
I understand you can no longer get an OS 61 (FSR) Long stroke?  However am I correct to assume that the OS 61 FX has the same power?  Anyone used OS 61 Fx on a pattern ship?

Alan
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Re: Hanno Prettner 64" CURARE
« Reply #27 on: December 10, 2010, 11:49:13 AM »
You have quite a list of things to do there Nige

Alan

Sadly I wish that was all of it!! but they are near the top of the list today!! :D ;) 

Offline ATSA2

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Re: Hanno Prettner 64" CURARE
« Reply #28 on: December 10, 2010, 13:15:25 PM »
Lovely aircraft, the Curare, we have one in our club, it takes all the runway to get up and down....even with flaps!

Looks great in the air, I always wanted one back in the late 70's, but it would scare me silly now....
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Offline Newalan

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Re: Hanno Prettner 64" CURARE
« Reply #29 on: December 10, 2010, 13:34:28 PM »
Lovely aircraft, the Curare, we have one in our club, it takes all the runway to get up and down....even with flaps!

Looks great in the air, I always wanted one back in the late 70's, but it would scare me silly now....

I did own one back in the 80's it is a sleek and slippery aircraft with very little parasitic drag associated with other models, but I can't remember it being too difficult to land.

Albeit the one I flew was heavy (fibre glass fuselage & foam wings with no flaps)  The trick is to make a long low approach ending up just two feet above the runway threshold and hold the nose up and the speed just bleeds away as it sinks to the ground and the main wheels touch.

They will take a long run on take off if you have the nose gear Very slightly shorter than the main gears. If you arrange it to be all at the same level so the fuselage is level it doesn't take a lot of room to take off.

Alan
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Offline dave.windymiller

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Re: Hanno Prettner 64" CURARE
« Reply #30 on: December 10, 2010, 23:01:28 PM »
I am building from a plan with a short kit and there is no additional information. Any idea what the control throws should be for Aileron, Elevator and the Rudder?  I have a rough idea as to what it should be but knowing the exact throws will help.

Thanks in advance

Alan

The curare is "in for repair" after yet another thumbs failure but i'll measure up the magic throws which was for all intents set up the same.  Various flap configurations exist and ive tried all of them.  Drag flaps do what they are supposed to do ie counter the pitch up tendency. When the computer mix tx's came out this was irrelevant as you mix in a bit of down and dont bother with the drag plates on the flaps (aids stretching dead stick landings!).   Separate spoilers and std flaps looked good but could never convince myself there were any benefits.  

Full flap (45deg) landings are almost at walking pace and amaze folks when they find its a 8.5 lb model.  Since it was built in the 80's Ive used irvine 61 with plasitc carb (horrible), ringed webra speed 61 (beautiful when new but became unreliable), os 61fx (dead reliable lacked top end grunt) and an abc webra 61 long stroke which was going great until the thumbs problem. I doubt a 90 would work well in it!

The magic has a pumped webra 61 long stoke rear exhaust/dynamix carb + webra pipe. A beast of an engine but a pain to get tuned in the mid range (I suspect i have to reduce pump pressure).
Cheers
dave



Offline Newalan

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Re: Hanno Prettner 64" CURARE
« Reply #31 on: December 10, 2010, 23:30:49 PM »
Quote
The curare is "in for repair" after yet another thumbs failure but i'll measure up the magic throws which was for all intents set up the same.

Thank you for that info, I was going to use OS 61 FX with a tuned pipe,  I will look at Webra Long Stroke too.

The ability to dial in down elevator with the Flaps deployment in the modern gear is a blessing,  I am glad to hear that the landings can be at walking pace.

Once I have flown the Curare I will certainly look at the Magic too.

Alan
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Re: Hanno Prettner 64" CURARE
« Reply #32 on: December 11, 2010, 00:32:54 AM »
if you remember way back,   they had an in flight reversable prop fitted,    awsome!!

Offline Newalan

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Re: Hanno Prettner 64" CURARE
« Reply #33 on: December 11, 2010, 08:48:36 AM »
I always wondered how he achieved inflight reversible prop in those days?  Even today to achieve that will not be an easy task.

Alan
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Offline Ripon

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Re: Hanno Prettner 64" CURARE
« Reply #34 on: December 11, 2010, 10:32:38 AM »
When I worked for Micro Mold back in the 80's we imported the variable pitch prop as used by Hanno, I think it was made in Switzerland (could be wrong on that) but it was pretty expensive and we didn't sell too many.  I had the pleasure of meeting Hanno at the Nuremberg Toy Fair on the Simprop stand and he convinced me to fly Mode 1 with a tray and to use dual rates and expo - all seemed advanced at the time but he knew what he was talking about.  Watched his one roll only rolling circle at Sandown Park and have never stopped being jealous since.
Just starting a Wolfgang Matt Super Star (going back to my youth).
John 

Offline Newalan

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Re: Hanno Prettner 64" CURARE
« Reply #35 on: December 11, 2010, 10:49:10 AM »
Quote
When I worked for Micro Mold back in the 80's we imported the variable pitch prop as used by Hanno

Come to think of it I vaguely remember the Micro Mold variable pitch prop (Red & Black in colour I seem to recall).

Did they not also do a "Lark" fixed pitch Helicopter with a crude wrap around heat sink for the motor,  I had one which I enjoyed crashing cost me 90.00 (a lot of dosh in those days)

Alan
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Offline Newalan

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Re: Hanno Prettner 64" CURARE
« Reply #36 on: December 11, 2010, 21:31:45 PM »
Update and also because I am bored

Ok so far I have already ordered things like wheels, Fuel Tank, Engine mount etc because I want to build-in the the specified amount of down and side thrust directly to the Firewall as  stated on the plan.  I will be ordering the engine sometime next week to beat the VAT increase next year

I was going to write a small article on how to tune a tuned pipe during the build but decided I will do it now and get it out of the way.

The way I tune the pipe works very well and have had excellent results in the past.

Tune Pipe Tuning

Step one  Run-in the Engine using standard exhaust so that it runs at maximum power on the recommended prop for running in.


Step two Decide what prop you are going to use for Aerobatics normally stated in instructions  Now remember aerobatic models use a higher pitch prop compared to sports flying.  As an example if the prop size recommended for Aerobatics happens to be 12x6 (standard exhaust) then you need to buy two props 12x7 and 12x8.

Step Three  Fit the 12x8 prop for tuning. At this stage use the tuned pipe as supplied (nothing cut off) run the engine to max power and note the RPM achieved.  Say you achieved 14000 rpm

Step Three "B"Now switch the engine off and let it cool for a while, remove the pipe and cut off about 1/4 inch either from the down pipe or the tuned pipe itself where it's joined by the silicon heavy duty tube.

Step four Start the engine run it up to max power you will see increased RPM Note the RPM and switch off the engine again  and repeat Step three "B"

Carry on doing this until you no longer get increase in RPM or you get slightly decreased RPM.  That is the correct length of the pipe but it is now too short for 12x8 prop but just right for the 12x7 prop.

Step five Mark the position of the pipe or measure it from a given reference point for future use.  Replace the prop with the flight prop 12x7 run it up and you will find you have probably gained 3000 plus rpm.

That is all there is to it, time consumming but well worth the effort.  The sliding of pipe in and out for max power without going through the above procedure will not give you the right results. You will have to tune every flight too.

Note:  If you change the fuel or a glow plug, (use hot glow plug)  from the one you used for tuning the pipe, the performance will altert (most likely less performance) The engines used with tuned pipe wear out faster than the ones used used with standard silencer.  It is not uncommon to replace the engine after every 100 flights of 10 min duration.approx 16 hours of total use

Alan
TODAY I AM READY FOR YESTERDAY

Offline dave.windymiller

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Re: Hanno Prettner 64" CURARE
« Reply #37 on: December 12, 2010, 00:37:42 AM »
" I am glad to hear that the landings can be at walking pace."

Ok, its more of a quick jog than a walk and no 3d type floaty approach but still slower than many sports models!

 

Offline Newalan

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Re: Hanno Prettner 64" CURARE
« Reply #38 on: December 12, 2010, 10:23:49 AM »
Quote
Ok, its more of a quick jog

I can live that it has to be slower than than the Scale 88" Hurricane I had weighing at 24 lbs and landed at fast Olympic sprint pace.

Alan
TODAY I AM READY FOR YESTERDAY

Offline dave.windymiller

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Re: Hanno Prettner 64" CURARE
« Reply #39 on: December 12, 2010, 20:36:07 PM »
Throws (max rate) + ~30% expo
elevator 20mm
Ailerons +19 -18
Rudder 40mm

 

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