Topic: 1/3rd scale Sopwith Pup

Looks about right to me...

How much wash out in the top wing though............ 1/8" down at the leading edge?  Once it's set I wont be able to alter it other than by cutting new inter plane struts due to the way they attach.  I'm beginning to think my keyhole attachment method is much better as it allows a degree of adjustment.

Looks about right to me...

Stu,  I see you have used furry hinged on the rudder.
Bonzey

Stu,  I see you have used furry hinged on the rudder.
Bonzey

Well, it is my Sopwith PUP! 

Stu,  I see you have used furry hinged on the rudder.
Bonzey

Unlike Charlie R next to me, who uses fury hinges. 

Shaun, me ole plonker sparra... 

My washout is adjustable by adjusting the flying/landing wires and the cross braces on my interplane struts... 

Shaun, me ole plonker sparra... 

My washout is adjustable by adjusting the flying/landing wires and the cross braces on my interplane struts... 

Not possible to alter washout via that method it will put the wings out of square with the fuselage.  The only way to alter washout is by altering the length of the struts or the strut fixings.

Not possible to alter washout via that method it will put the wings out of square with the fuselage.  The only way to alter washout is by altering the length of the struts or the strut fixings.

You'r not wrong there Shaun I found out the hard way 
Thanks for the file I'm looking for a mac app to open it with

Alan

Sorry Alan I forgot you are on MAC 

I have cut the interplane struts to length drilled and slotted them to go over the metal sticking up from the wings.  Also made up all the steel bracketry which I will paint then I can set it up all proper and finalise the rigging but it needs to be warmer than it was today for me to stand outside and do that at least I kept warmish with all the hack sawing and filling today.

You'r not wrong there Shaun I found out the hard way 
Thanks for the file I'm looking for a mac app to open it with

Alan

Strange, it worked for me... 

You can alter both wings incidence with the incidence wires since that is what they are for. However, like Shaun MEANS, you can't alter say just the bottom or top wing without altering struts

Ian.

Been thinking about the rigging between the cabanes (why cabanes damn stupid name!) and have thought of several ideas.

1) 1/16 welding rod with eyes bent on the ends bolted with 2MM through the cabanes
2) 1/16 welding rod with eyes bent on the ends bolted with 2MM through the cabanes but the rods going in slots so they are not seen
3) route out a slot with a 1/16" drill and put in 1/4" wide brackets with holes in to take either rigging wire or 1/16" welding rod
4) route out a slot with a 1/16" drill and put the welding rods in with bends/eyes on straight in to epoxy

How necessary are they?  I would think they will make the epoxy joints top and bottom of the cabanes take less stress and therefore necessary.

Still no wheels and not sure about making any or what method as described earlier in the thread.  Or buy Mudders old Camel ones but they may not be available for some time.

The ones on my pup are Totally non functional. Just fishing trace stuff fitted onto some hooks made from piano wire glued into the cabanes.
So they are not needed to keep the thing together in the way the balsa usa one is built from my experience with it.

Si

My wheels are the BUSA 9" jobs with fabric covers, which look OK .They are dreadful without covers though  They are £30 in kit form (http://www.pegasusmodels.co.uk/manusub.asp manu=Balsa+USA&offset=40) 
The cabane supports  are thin wires wound round small screws so can't be functional.
  Im just painting mine and am using warbirds old PC10 .I like the paint to use,  but the colour Im not so sure about . All the preserved WW1 aircraft seem to be brown / green not green/ brown if you see what I mean!!

Alan

Im just painting mine and am using warbirds old PC10 .I like the paint to use,  but the colour Im not so sure about . All the preserved WW1 aircraft seem to be brown / green not green/ brown if you see what I mean!!

Ah!     The old PC10 story .......

It seems to me that, within limits, it can be almost any colour you like depending on who mixed it, what they mixed it from, how old it was etc etc.    The only certainty is that there is a no definitive answer.  Managed to pick up a bit of old SE5A covering the other day at OW so that could well be my reference although I'm most likely to tap up Sir Redders and get some of his when the time comes.

Alan

My wheels are the BUSA 9" jobs with fabric covers, which look OK .They are dreadful without covers though  They are £30 in kit form (http://www.pegasusmodels.co.uk/manusub.asp manu=Balsa+USA&offset=40) 

Alan

The page came up saying no items but after a quick search I found:  http://www.pegasusmodels.co.uk/detail.asp?main=Aircraft+Accessories&sub1=Wheels&ID=991140     


JUST CHECKED AGAIN THERE IS NO ADD TO CART ICON    Why advertise something that is not for sale 

If I had not already got some WBC I would have tried Ian's paint to it sounds the mutz nutz.

The page came up saying no items but after a quick search I found:  http://www.pegasusmodels.co.uk/detail.asp?main=Aircraft+Accessories&sub1=Wheels&ID=991140     

Yes, I found that too.  I thought I might be onto a winner but my hopes were dashed

Mind you, I've been waiting for two calls to a metal tube supplier regarding suitable streamilne section tube  to be returned but not a sausage, zilch a big fat nothing so far. 
A simple Yay or Nay would be nice

Alan

Get on and make some. Of all the things I have seen you make this must be one of the simplest. You excel at creating things from nothing so go and create some wheels.


Si 

Get on and make some. Of all the things I have seen you make this must be one of the simplest. You excel at creating things from nothing so go and create some wheels.

Si 

I only want to make them once and if the manufacturers get it wrong with centre hub wearing out, tyres wearing out or falling off etc perhaps there is more to it than first glance.  Ideally I would like to make them from steel and be spoked it wont need to have the correct amount of spokes just enough to be stable and able to take side and compressive loads.  If I were still in the sheet metal game I would make them from ali and tig them up but I have no facilities any more basically a hammer and a blow torch and band saw.  I do have a wood lathe over at my fathers under 4" of my stored cr@p but I'm not sure if it will throw 9" maybe off the end it might 

Ideally I would like to make them from steel and be spoked it wont need to have the correct amount of spokes just enough to be stable and able to take side and compressive loads.

Keep thinking those good thoughts Shaun.  No time at all you'll have cracked it and be knocking them out 2 a penny    Put me down for a pair of standard Sopwiths please He He!

Alan

I only want to make them once and if the manufacturers get it wrong with centre hub wearing out, tyres wearing out or falling off etc perhaps there is more to it than first glance.  Ideally I would like to make them from steel and be spoked it wont need to have the correct amount of spokes just enough to be stable and able to take side and compressive loads.  If I were still in the sheet metal game I would make them from ali and tig them up but I have no facilities any more basically a hammer and a blow torch and band saw.  I do have a wood lathe over at my fathers under 4" of my stored cr@p but I'm not sure if it will throw 9" maybe off the end it might 

I've built a lot of spoked wheels but never from scratch (I bought the hubs, spokes and rims) and never so small but I'm sure it must be possible.  I would think a radial as opposed to tangential spoke pattern would be OK and a lot easier to build.  I may have some 15/17 gauge butted stainless spokes somewhere which you could cut down.  I've definitely got some 13 and 14 gauge if they're any use.  You're on your own with hubs, rims and tyres though.

Geoff

Hi Shaun

I might know a bloke with some BUSA wheels for sale (we call him Auntie Wainright ;he's always trying to flog stuff) he tried to sell them to me as Arizona models ones ages ago !! Would you like me to tap him up? I think he might have a cowl as well

Alan

I've built a lot of spoked wheels but never from scratch (I bought the hubs, spokes and rims) and never so small but I'm sure it must be possible.  I would think a radial as opposed to tangential spoke pattern would be OK and a lot easier to build.  I may have some 15/17 gauge butted stainless spokes somewhere which you could cut down.  I've definitely got some 13 and 14 gauge if they're any use.  You're on your own with hubs, rims and tyres though.

Geoff

Hi Geoff

You lost me at "tangential"    If I make spoked wheels they will not be as per bicycle with tension adjustment on the spokes just silver soldered in and not that many of them either maybe 12ish.  I could either use piano wire or cut down some old spokes from a scrap bicycle wheel the centre hub would be a piece of brass tube 8mm clearance ID with washers silver soldered on either side to take the spokes which may or may not go through holes in the washers.  It's all hypothetical right now as I have no way of making the rims as I have no rollers, jenny or swagging tooling so it would all have to be hand beaten round a former.  The former is an issue as I cannot cut one from steel so would have to be hard MDF or the like in 2 parts so it could be removed after the 2nd side was beaten over.  Again if I had the machinery I could make up a tool for bending round a folded piece of steel which had been folded into a channel 1st then just weld it up once in a ring this method would be repeatable.  I don't have the kit to make the kit so.............. dunno what to do right now.

Hi Shaun

I might know a bloke with some BUSA wheels for sale (we call him Auntie Wainright ;he's always trying to flog stuff) he tried to sell them to me as Arizona models ones ages ago !! Would you like me to tap him up? I think he might have a cowl as well

Alan

Thanks Alan no harm in asking I would like something that will stand my naff flying ability.............. got any solid steel ones?

I'm hacking up bit's of piano wire for the undercarriage and the cross bit that hold the vertical bar that stops the axle going back and acts as a bottom out stop should be 3" up from the axle when it's at the bottom of the undercarriage legs.  This looks like a lot of travel to me should I reduce it?

Just tried silver soldering the undercarriage with a propane torch............. waste of time and gas can't get it hot enough so I will MIG the booga up 

Shaun, tangential spoking is the way most wire wheels are built so they have a bit of give.  The spokes have to cross each other and the usual method is for a spoke to cross 3 others going the opposite way before reaching the rim.  I know you have a bike in your garage - just have a look   Anyway the offer of a few s/s spokes is open if you think they'll be of any use.  I never build with 'rustless' spokes - same amount of work for an inferior product.

Geoff

Hi Shaun

Auntie Wainwright has still got the wheels, the tyers need gluing (they come straight in the kit ).He wants £15 the pair .I will pay him and post them to you if you want them .You can send me the dosh when you can

Alan

Hi Shaun

Auntie Wainwright has still got the wheels, the tyers need gluing (they come straight in the kit ).He wants £15 the pair .I will pay him and post them to you if you want them .You can send me the dosh when you can

Alan

That sounds rather good    are thems the nasty plastic ones or as per post earlier the steel spoke jobbies?

I will phone him later I will see him over the weekend

Alan

I will phone him later I will see him over the weekend

Alan

  1 step closer cheers mate 

I have persevered on the silver soldering and managed to attach the bottom end together but not at all happy with it............ fit for purpose but fugly 

The wheels are steel spoked jobs as per the Pegasus haven't got them add!! . They seem OK ,they are the same as mine ,but they look better with covers .

Alan

The wheels are steel spoked jobs as per the Pegasus haven't got them add!! . They seem OK ,they are the same as mine ,but they look better with covers .

Alan

Fantastic Alan you are a star 

Not worried about the tyres to much apparently that's why BUSA stopped making them due to tyres falling off but I reckon either using the original tyres or radiator pipe with a dollop of seam sealant they will stay on 

I'm well chuffed you found some up, sourcing wheels has been worrying me.

Last year at Bath and West one of my Tyres came off. Desperately looking around the trade stands there for something to stick it back on with I bought some UHU Por contact glue.I used this as it was all that was available. 12 months on and a lot of flights later its still there as good as when I stuck it on that afternoon.
It would not have been my choice but a lesson learned.
That was on the same wheels you have just bought.

Si

Hi Shaun
Im picking the wheels up on my way home from work this evening .I have lost your address please could you PM or email it .
We call the bloke Auntie Wainright because you can't get out of his house without buying something ,as per Last of the Summer Wine .I should be safe going this evening buying your wheels!!!! IIRC he has a 1/3 size cowl which looks like the Bristol Scout's are you interested?

Alan

Email sent Alan 

I'm having a right game with this rigging......... should be easy:

pull both wings into fuselage to touch
Set the dihedral of the bottom wing and make the landing wires
top wing should be at the correct incidence due to length of inter plane struts
make up flying wires
check all have the same tension ish jobs a goodun

Set up bottom wing and made landing wires no problems then find all wings have puled away from the fuselage.  Using a luggage strap on the top wing that's back in place not so easy to hold bottom wings against the fuselage.  Starboard wings are on all wires made up and have good tension probably around a "D#"    top wing is against centre section but it still has the strap on don't dare remove it.  Bottom wing is raking back away from the fuselage at the front.  Bottom wing has no wash out top wing has an estimated 1/8" to 3/16" which is what I planned.

Should I put a washer on the rear dowel to push the wing straight    This is where I hate working with old parts I should have checked to make sure the wing was built square 
I may try a washer and see if it pushes it right if it does I can make up a tapered rib and fit on the end before covering but I'm concerned that it's possible to pull both wings away from the fuselage.  I know everyone else relies on the rigging to hold the wings in but don't seem right to me.  Perhaps the incidence wires between the inter plane struts will help but I already have on on as it is all be it a temp to pull the incidence correct for the flying and landing wires.

A bit cold miffed and cheesed off right now 

Just put a 1/8" washer on the rear dowels and that's brought the wing straight but is to much on the port wing so will do a 3/32" one for that.  Once the incidence wires are on which I have not even started making the brackets for yet I'm sure that will stop the wings pulling from the fuselage.



14 1/2Lb as it sits.

Got the wheels for a tenner yaaaaa  .The U/C looks OK from here  . I haven't rigged mine properly yet but I did chuck it together when I first bought it and it looked OK and was rigid. It didn't look any different to yours in terms of dowels /holes etc.  Simon or Von Sheephoven will be able to advise I'm sure.

Regards Alan

Those incidence wires sure do help out....

Is the root rib not squarewith respect to the l/e and t/e?

I had a bit of that trouble with one of my top wings. Twas all my fault in that the root rib was indeed not square with the spar. I glued a second rib to it and sanded that square. All was well and still is.

Si