Topic: 1/3rd scale Sopwith Pup

looking at it my cowl starts where the cabanes stop!

Thanks for that Stuey it's a help 

It seems the cowl I have has been cut in it's depth yours is longer so the firewall would not need moving.  I see no "V" cut out in the underside of yours for cooling (and scale if being anal).  I think I will leave the cut out in mine for now as I have no idea how the engine and reduction drive mounting bolts will go and I don't want to cut away firewall where a bolt should be 

If I temp hold the firewall in position I should be able to make the side cheeks up and fit the firewall in April when I get my hands on the reduction drive at least I think that is feasible 

Then you posted before I finished my last post 

Ahhh so your cowl goes over the fuselage rather than butting up to it     hmmmm I though it was butted up that's what I'm planning on doing although it will be less scale that way lengthwise.

The cooling is not derived from a scale cut out, the firewall just finishes at the bottom of the fus and the exhausts exit through gap between that and the bottom of the cowl! You can see roughly where the mounts are in the 1st picture

Thanks for taking the trouble to take your cowl off and take all the pictures they will be very helpful cheers 

So as this is a quick and dirty build and yours appears to have no cooling issues if I orientate mine the same I should get the same result although I wont have that bottom bit of cowl to help/hinder the air 

Right........... off outside to chop up some tree for the roundie bits and some wedgie shapes and stuff 

Hi Shaun

I think mine is as per plan,and the cowl butts up to the fuse.  I have the engine and reduction box built so I can do some pics and mesurements tomorrow (working today ) if it would help

Alan

Thanks for taking the trouble to take your cowl off and take all the pictures they will be very helpful cheers 

So as this is a quick and dirty build and yours appears to have no cooling issues if I orientate mine the same I should get the same result although I wont have that bottom bit of cowl to help/hinder the air 

Right........... off outside to chop up some tree for the roundie bits and some wedgie shapes and stuff 

Yes, this has has loads of 20 minute flights since I have owned it. Only ever once dead sticked and that was at Duxford in July when I forgot to reset my throttle trim high enough after the previous flight...

This is first time the cowl has been off since I checked it over after buying it last March! Reliable or what...

Hi Ritmaster Von Sheephoven .

If you are still looking, what holds the dummy Clerget in place? Its the next job on mine

Alan

hope this is helping.... 

Not pretty, but it's held for over 200 flights....

And what you can see from the outside.....




And another to show where the mounting ends up on the firewall..


[/quote]

Just for the record Stu, wipping the cowl off, taking snaps and poping the cowl back on doesn't count as a build 

(assuming you get round to popping the cowl back on of course  )

Muds

Just for the record Stu, wipping the cowl off, taking snaps and poping the cowl back on doesn't count as a build 

(assuming you get round to popping the cowl back on of course  )

Muds

you probably can see the Camel in the background with the cowl off, that's having a rebuild too. 

Hi Shaun

I think mine is as per plan,and the cowl butts up to the fuse.  I have the engine and reduction box built so I can do some pics and mesurements tomorrow (working today ) if it would help

Alan

Hooray at last we get im to post some pickies of his Pup  ............. yes please Alan all pickies help 

I just cut a piece of liteply for the tank to sit on but dont really want to glue it in yet, knowing my luck it would foul a engine mount bolt so again may have to wait before I put that in.  I suppose there is nothing wrong with me completing the rest of it leaving the firewall and this shelf out as they can both go in from the front laters 

Bloomin neighbour came round twice with a laptop all locked up I managed to hide the 1st time and didn't answer the door but I got caught the 2nd time so that took a bit of time up
Then another neighbour dropped in wanting to yarn    I ate neighbours but have to have my garage door open to get some light in and the boogers saw me.

Anyway, I have to stop now to pick SWMBO up from the station but I managed to get the formers made up for the ply 





I did say I could just about spring the cabanes in their slots but after looking again when the ply goes on it will have to spring further so I'm not willing to risk it and possibly crack the joints in the top wing centre section.  I will dry fit the ply and have to not have slots for the cabanes but cut outs right to the edge so I can set the top wing up and glue it in then fit the ply and litho.  I don't like working this way but when trying to mate new to old needs must.

I forgot to add I'm still doing all my building off a B & D workmate and yes the fuselage is straight and untwisted

Hi Shaun

Don't (M)uck about do you,its almost finished!!! .Emailed you some pics of my cowl cos they were too big to post on here .I need some help before I can post pics 

Thanks to Baron Von Sheephoven for engine attachment pics.

Alan

Don't (M)uck about do you,its almost finished!!!

Alan

It's miles from finished it just looks a lot and is really just a few sticks glued together at the moment.

All the rigging points need to be made and fitted, undercarriage to make wheels to find entire airframe to have at least 2 coats of dope before covering.  The covering alone will take an age + there is painting radio and tank to fit bla bla bla it goes on and on.  I thought I will "just" hinge the top port aileron with a view to covering the wing............ that went pear shaped when I looked at the condition and fit of the aileron which was boogered and a much to long.  I reused the trailing edge but made up a new leading and ribs then finally hinged it back on with the original hinges.  The wing which I thought was ok now cracked a few more time here and there so more repairs were carried out and finally gave it a coat of dope. 

I have been messing about with a drop of paint in the dope to see if I can reproduce the doped linen affect and I think it may work out ok 

The ply for the top deck is cut roughly to shape and is tied with string to shape and the window cleaner I sprayed on is drying so I hope it will hold the shape fairly well tomorrow so I can cut it closer to the finish size.

Things still to buy:
Pilot
Wheels (Mick Reeves?)
1/4" piano wire axle (LMS  )
Brass tube to go over axle then a further piece to go over that (LMS  )
Servos (which ones best value for money fit for purpose)
2 X rx power packs (Sub C Vapexteck?)
2 X heavy duty switches (SM Services?)
Tygon fuel tube (LMS  )
Dope ((Skycraft) shrinking or non shrinking?)

I already have the Diatex 1000 and some Koverall and WBC paint.  I also have 100 X M3 clevisis and I think somewhere 10 X bicycle gear cables, the gun and a rudimentary 9 cylinder engine to sit in the cowl I can make.

Things still to buy:
Pilot
Wheels (Mick Reeves?)
1/4" piano wire axle (LMS  )
Brass tube to go over axle then a further piece to go over that (LMS  )
Servos (which ones best value for money fit for purpose)
2 X rx power packs (Sub C Vapexteck?)
2 X heavy duty switches (SM Services?)
Tygon fuel tube (LMS  )
Dope ((Skycraft) shrinking or non shrinking?)

I already have the Diatex 1000 and some Koverall and WBC paint.  I also have 100 X M3 clevisis and I think somewhere 10 X bicycle gear cables, the gun and a rudimentary 9 cylinder engine to sit in the cowl I can make.

I might (no promises) be able to help you with a set of wheels (Mick Reeves).

I use Vepextech 2x 3600mah sub C packs for my larger models. I like their packs, their ebay shop is cheapest.

If you can hang on for the HD switches I will try and pick a pair up from one of the shows, there is a trader who sells them for about £3 each, much better than the £8 at the shops.

I would use Hitec 645mg's for the servo's, I like em velly muchley.

Mud 

I might (no promises) be able to help you with a set of wheels (Mick Reeves).

Very kind mate but wont you be needing them for your 504 (which I hope you will start a build thread on soon)

I use Vepextech 2x 3600mah sub C packs for my larger models. I like their packs, their ebay shop is cheapest.

I got Vapexteck Ebay shop bookmarked already

How about these 4.8V (no need to go to 6V is there?):  http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Raptor-30-NiMH-Battery-Pack-4-8v-3700mAh-Twin-Connector-/370391955926?pt=UK_ToysGames_RadioControlled_JN&hash=item563d14b9d6

If you can hang on for the HD switches I will try and pick a pair up from one of the shows, there is a trader who sells them for about £3 each, much better than the £8 at the shops.

Is there a show before Barkston    I very much doubt I will need them before then though.  What to use though normally I would go for a SM86 Futaba Heavy Duty Slide Switch With Charge Socket or I have seen a lot of guys use the SM75 Futaba Type Locking Toggle Switch.  I like to be able to charge and know where my lead is but I do like the security of the toggle type.

I would use Hitec 645mg's for the servo's, I like em velly muchley.

Mud 

Hmmm £22.37 + postage from Giant Cod.  So that's 1 on each elevator 1/2, each aileron and I guess it's man enough for the rudder?  The other option is the Tower Pro MG-996r which I have been using on several other airframes with no problems and they have a lot of power + are £8,44 each.

Very kind mate but wont you be needing them for your 504 (which I hope you will start a build thread on soon)


I got Vapexteck Ebay shop bookmarked already

How about these 4.8V (no need to go to 6V is there?):  http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Raptor-30-NiMH-Battery-Pack-4-8v-3700mAh-Twin-Connector-/370391955926?pt=UK_ToysGames_RadioControlled_JN&hash=item563d14b9d6


Is there a show before Barkston    I very much doubt I will need them before then though.  What to use though normally I would go for a SM86 Futaba Heavy Duty Slide Switch With Charge Socket or I have seen a lot of guys use the SM75 Futaba Type Locking Toggle Switch.  I like to be able to charge and know where my lead is but I do like the security of the toggle type.


Hmmm £22.37 + postage from Giant Cod.  So that's 1 on each elevator 1/2, each aileron and I guess it's man enough for the rudder?  The other option is the Tower Pro MG-996r which I have been using on several other airframes with no problems and they have a lot of power + are £8,44 each.

Wheels, nope, I got some spoked ones for that 

I use 6v, your choice 

You gonna have in done for Barkston? Blimey, in which case no!

Again, your choice, you know Tower Pro better than I

Muds

Hi Shaun

Just trying to post a pic

Yaaaah

I see you sorted it out then    Such a shame the MAC software is not developed as much as Microsoft I would switch over myself if it were.

I have had to make up another aileron this morning for the Starboard top wing after inspecting the original further it was doing that clicking thing and would not accept glue + the fit was poor.  The aileron has to be bespoke as the wing is not built 100% to the drawing so each one is different.  ~After I built my 1/4 scale Pup using 2nd hand wings I said I would never do that again as it's quicker to make new.............. why don't I listen to myself 

Hi Shaun
I like my Mac very much My youngest son is a graphic designer and kept pestering me to change .You just boot up and use it .No maintenance required and hardly ever crashes .I  have expert advice on the end of a phone but don't need it much.
Re servos those futaba brick jobs which were in the wings are OK, if a bit powerful. not sure if they work but would be supprised if they don't

Alan

Re servos those futaba brick jobs which were in the wings are OK, if a bit powerful. not sure if they work but would be supprised if they don't

Alan

They work but talk about lack of centring they over shoot about 10 degrees back and forth 

Ian I'm guessing you have altered the section both top and bottom on the tail plane on your earlier picture.......... it's not flat bottomed is it?  For the sale of 1/2 hours work I may as well add some 1/8" balsa and give mine some shape.

Yes mate, I altered the section top and bottom. The underside that sits on the fuselage though remains flat, theres a rib that runs down the side of the fuselage both sides, to hide the flat seat and gives a nice solid location for the tailplane.

Ian.

Thanks Ian 

Sounds like it's done in much the same way as the 1/4 scale DB which also has ribs that overhang the fuselage and lock it into place.  Trouble is I built it to plan inc diagonals which now make it hard to fit riblets 
I'm having a bit of a off day ............ I've gone in a bit to deep with the repairs of the wings to bin them but wish I had right from the start.

Trouble is I built it to plan inc diagonals which now make it hard to fit riblets 

No problem, fit the riblets at the same thickness as the flat tailplane, touching the diagonals if necessary, then fit more sheet over the top like you are doing with the ribs. Thats how mine was done, it had all the diagonals too   It also holds the covering away from all the non scale bits too, but you aint that bothered about a scale finish. NOT!!

Ian.

Don't get me wrong.......... I would love true scale but these wings are not a good point to start from and as I will not be flying Dawn Patrol I don't feel it worth putting the effort into this airframe as the detail takes as long as the build.  I'm happy to scale it up a bit where it can be done quickly such as the riblets and flying wire anchor positions but I won't be thinning the wing sections etc.  It may if it's lucky get a rudimentary instrument panel once it's been flown a few times but non scale rigging wires and fittings.
Whilst I hated working in the steel industry I so so miss the tooling that was available to me........... MIG's, TIG's, Gas axe break press guillotine etc I could be making up all sorts of exhausts undercarriages etc.  Then there were my machining days......... I could have been knocking up bespoke reduction drives, prop drivers and all that type of stuff.

Talking of TIG's I jus looked in my favourite shop:  http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/AC-DC-TIG-WELDER-ALI-S-TEEL-UK-SELLER-last-few-349-/170600139344?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item27b88f8a50
Trouble is the gas it costs a fortune to rent a bottle and for the amount I would use it 1 bottle would last me years 

The tailplane now has a section to it except for the middle fa diddle as I have not quite figured out how I will do that bit yet, probably with a 3/4" wide rib so the fin support poles have somewhere to live.  I guess I should drill through where the rigging goes and pop a bit of brass tube in there to stop it compressing or perhaps I need something a bit stronger and need to glue in a hardwood point 

I just pulled out or my stuff a !Quest" battery backer which has 2 inputs and a single output and is supposed to detect when one power source goes below a given figure and auto stitches to the other............. probably a good idea to fit this in when I get to the radio gear? 

Not done loads today as I fooked up the washing this morning........... put the conditioner stuff in but forgot the actual detergent and only noticed when I put the 2nd load in and that was how the day was set to go 

Tailplane is fitted as per Sir Ian's suggestion ply lug at the front single M3 bolt at the rear and the profile ribs running tight beside the fuselage which gives a really nice solid placement.
I'm not sure how I will get the bottom hinge in the rear of the fuselage at teh same time as slotting in the 2 X carbon tubes of the fin but will tackle that when I come to it............... I have not made the rudder as I was unsure how high off the tailplane the fin would sit which dictates the depth of the rudder.

I was unsure how high off the tailplane the fin would sit which dictates the depth of the rudder.

Indeed it does 

Coming on nicely

Alan

Oh sorry Alan I forgot your mishap!

I need to make up the elevator control horns............... I'm thinking 1" from surface to the hole for the closed loop wire but before I start marking and cutting would like to confirm I'm about right with my guessdimation  waddya say?

I can cover the tailplane tomorrow I have given it 2 coats of dope rubbed down between coats then I can make up the rudder.

Don't forget the hard points for the rigging wires before you cover the tail plane.
My horns are about 30mm long .

Si

My horns are about the same

Alan

Thanks for the horn size Simon.  The hard points are basically a holde drilled through the rub with a piece of brass tube through to stop compression then a piece of thin ply either side of the rib to give it's guts back.  The rear end is drilled through just off the rib on the spar with a triangular gusset again to put some strength back in.  I will take a photo later if I can and show what I mean and see if you think it sufficient I believe it is.  I wont be doing any covering etc today as I have an emergency plumbing job to do for my parents which may take all day............... grrrrrrrr central heating pipe blockage where the hot water from the tank meets the cold water from the header tank

I like this build and am into the "Non Scale" look on the Pup, Personally I prefer the barn door leading edge look, but experience has proved that "filing" a radius on does help the model to fly better, in my case not a lot better but better.
Are you going to paint it in any particular Scheme ??

Are you going to paint it in any particular Scheme ??

If I can figure out what the actual colours are I will be going with B1087 http://www.standardmotorclub.org.uk/cars/military/features/sopwithpup3.htm

The hard points on the tail plane:



Koverall going on:



Elevator horns:



Now should I put a piece of 1/32" ply over it once it's epoxied in?

I would put the ply onas the load would be spread up three ribs as opposed to just one

There doesn't look much of the old aeroplane left Shaun?!

Ian.