Topic: The New D60 Thread

I've been away from the forums for a while (too much work). I haven't read all the previous commotion but enough to get the jist of it. After spending quite a lot of hours building my D60, doing tasks that could reasonably be considered as factory finishing (drilling elevator push rod holes etc that are blatantly needed to fly the thing) I did get a bit annoyed... BUT WAIT - after reading the heated speak that is now agreeably consigned to history, Joe posted a very down to earth comment that made me realise the big picture of how much goes into bringing these things to manufacture. Yes, small things can be improved, but at a cost - to us.

If I ask myself, "Am I glad Joe made these amazing machines and made them affordable so we can all fly them." Damn right I am!

Continuing on a positive and exciting note - my D60 is ready.  And I can't wait to fly her. After experiencing massive satisfaction and admiration for the Dynamic design through my lovely little D40, I can only imagine the D60 will be the same joyful experience. I love to fly, so thank you Joe for giving us such good kit to do it with.

[please forgive the poor colour consistency - it was taken with a mobile. Oh to have a workshop. That coffee table has so far underpinned the building of: Mini Blade, Reaper, Opus MCT, T-Rex450 Sport Helicopter, D40, D60... and an undisclosed number of repairs.  What's going to be next?]

Steve - your scheme additions are always TOO cool!

nice one!

Z

Steve
I also started with a D40 and liked it so much i ended up buying  a D60 , in fact mine are both the same  colour scheme so better be careful when i put them down at RE if you are up there

If you thought the D40 was good (and it def is) you are going to love the 60, had mine out round the back again recently and in 15mph winds we estimate it spun up to around 180-190 very nicely, recently had it gunned at 147 and this was way faster.
The thing i noticed was at lower speeds 100-120 it was waggling about on the uphill leg,  but as the speed increased it settled down into a very relaxed circuit and actually felt better the faster it went ! Infact i think that was the most relaxed i have felt while dsing at a decent speed, its just gives you the confidence to hang in there.

Would like to be there when you maiden it, bet you end up smiling

chris

(Attachment Link)

  Foreigners???





Only kidding steve. But I find the orange very easy to see both in the sky and against green and brown back grownds.

D80 next or straight to the 130?

So how much you got in the wing and where?
 

been thinking about your trim, and remembered a post on Joe's d130 thread where he somebody advised against using trim's as they can start to pull off at high speeds and have put gliders in.

I think the thinner bits will be ok, just the orange on the wing tip that if it starts to come off could cause enough resistance to pull it in. How ninja are your thumbs.

On a different note, popped up R.E. today with the d40 for an hour. 1 flight. solo. launched from just before the gate and tried the hole ridge as I walked to the post. The normal bowl had the best drive. the steeper bits seemed more turbulent. But there is a place in line with the trees which was quite smooth. a bit daunting dsing such a vertical back side.

Just building a second and as its my light weight version (I a can resist tip ballasting) I have decided to use servos I have.
futaba 3150's fit in the ailerons (with a bit of sanding), and hs125's on aileron.

what else are people using besids hyperion 095's?

and elevator? not sure what I am going to go with? have hs65 and hyperion ds 09. dont thing a 125 will fit (even if you can get a 095 in)

If you are building light then anything of the same size and power as the Hyperion DS09AMD will work really well.

Hitec 125 I would think would be a major squeeze as the DS095 needs a LOT of work to get in, and it is 0.5mm thinner than the 125.

Z

to save disappointment

  Id be disappointed too mate!! you had to buy loads of lead, spend time fixing it into your model, more effort carrying it up the hills and i still kick your ass with an empty one

  Not sure why your post got moderated Will, but having owned 2 D80s now (and flown 2 D60s) 1 with and 1 without any tip ballast i can honestly say that if i was to put another together it wouldnt have any in it.

But thats just my feelings so please dont shoot me down

  Id be disappointed too mate!! you had to buy loads of lead, spend time fixing it into your model, more effort carrying it up the hills and i still kick your ass with an empty one

  Not sure why your post got moderated Will, but having owned 2 D80s now (and flown 2 D60s) 1 with and 1 without any tip ballast i can honestly say that if i was to put another together it wouldnt have any in it.

But thats just my feelings so please dont shoot me down

could have been because of preceding posts.
Point of this one is that it will be for light days, and there fore only carry ballast in the fuz. If we ever get another 40mph over the top I will have fixed the other ready to rumble.

Need to try source some 4mm or 5mm big heads (what ever is used) to finish the light fuz, Or just use one, and keep the other as a spare.

been thinking about your trim, and remembered a post on Joe's d130 thread where he somebody advised against using trim's as they can start to pull off at high speeds and have put gliders in.

I think the thinner bits will be ok, just the orange on the wing tip that if it starts to come off could cause enough resistance to pull it in. How ninja are your thumbs

Good point Will, thanks. If it happens, i'll let you know how fast it needed to go to do it 

I had a bit of trim let go on a pylon model once. Yeeeharrrrr! for a few gyrations at least! Ended up landing fine, but to be fair, that was only iron on stuff and I was a bit soft to use that instead of stick on. I'm guessing it's the same stuff as on your Opus which has fared pretty well. Guess we need to know what you're using that's working Steve!

i can't ever quite manage to get myself to put stickers on. It's a tough one. On the one hand, I'm a tart and I love stickers and go fast stripes and consequently wish I could let myself put them on! On the other hand, my obsessive nature gets the better of me and I can't put stickers on moulded wings, as I get all disturbed about what they might be doing to the airflow! (probably not a lot!) aargh the dilemma!

Z

I had a bit of trim let go on a pylon model once. Yeeeharrrrr! for a few gyrations at least! Ended up landing fine, but to be fair, that was only iron on stuff and I was a bit soft to use that instead of stick on. I'm guessing it's the same stuff as on your Opus which has fared pretty well. Guess we need to know what you're using that's working Steve!

i can't ever quite manage to get myself to put stickers on. It's a tough one. On the one hand, I'm a tart and I love stickers and go fast stripes and consequently wish I could let myself put them on! On the other hand, my obsessive nature gets the better of me and I can't put stickers on moulded wings, as I get all disturbed about what they might be doing to the airflow! (probably not a lot!) aargh the dilemma!

Z

If It needs stripes or tarting then go for it

This model will now be called scar tisue.

Details

Details

And I think I will show the scars, Not even going to bother about sanding it smoother than it is over there.

And the light variant. with No tip weight, sharing the same fuz. Still need to setup (Balance) scar tissue on this fuz and see how much difference the c of g is and how to manage it.

Details

Details

Very little DS activity of late, so pleased to report Steve (Hot Air)'s D60 maiden at MS on Thursday 30/6 merited a 182 mph.
Modest wind WNW rather than NW, so not particularly good conditions, but the D60 carved round very nicely as might be expected.

Very little DS activity of late, so pleased to report Steve (Hot Air)'s D60 maiden at MS on Thursday 30/6 merited a 182 mph.
Modest wind WNW rather than NW, so not particularly good conditions, but the D60 carved round very nicely as might be expected.

good one steve, 182 on her maiden in modest winds. good start.

weekend is poor. anybody up for a bbq?

I had a bit of trim let go on a pylon model once. Yeeeharrrrr! for a few gyrations at least! Ended up landing fine, but to be fair, that was only iron on stuff and I was a bit soft to use that instead of stick on. I'm guessing it's the same stuff as on your Opus which has fared pretty well. Guess we need to know what you're using that's working Steve!

i can't ever quite manage to get myself to put stickers on. It's a tough one. On the one hand, I'm a tart and I love stickers and go fast stripes and consequently wish I could let myself put them on! On the other hand, my obsessive nature gets the better of me and I can't put stickers on moulded wings, as I get all disturbed about what they might be doing to the airflow! (probably not a lot!) aargh the dilemma!

Z

I've been using solar trim. I like to at least put some day glow orange on my planes to make them more visible. My MCT, being mostly white, can easily disappear in front of clouds, especially when its front on. It seems to be worse on grey days. Like it has a cloaking device.  As you've seen, my MCT has some quite elaborate artwork on it, all using solar trim and it has survived 227mph so far plus many many laps of around 200, some in light rain. Incidentally, when I have removed solartrim on other planes, it sticks like sh1t to a blanket, so I am not afraid of it lifting in flight. Maybe at 400mph but not my current speeds. I would stress however that it is wise to overlap your leading edge if you are going to stick anything that close to it, that way air can't possibly get under it.

Regarding disturbance to air-flow. Yes, in theory it would interfere with airflow over a moulded wing, and i'm sure it does, which is why I removed much of the original effort I did on my D40. Scale wise, the protrusion caused by up to three layers of solar trim in some places (I did a jazzed up recreation of a Kiwi flag) I felt was a little too much for such a small wing on the 40in. In practice however, it doesn't seem to cause any observable problems. My D40 seems to go well enough in its current trim.  Maybe its costing me a few mph, but flying technique and conditions have a much greater bearing than a few tart-me-up stickers.  If i'm ever good enough to be in a duel with the likes of Abbo and Southall, split by just a few mph, then I can simply rip the decals off and accelerate like I have F1 DRS.  Meantime I like my planes to look good and for the imeasurable performance cost its worth it to me, so if you like stylised planes, get out there and make some art!

[The original D40 design shown below. I completed it but after its maiden front side flight I decided to remove the flag graphics in case it was too much]

By the way, my D60 maiden was ace. After becoming familiar with the lively antics of the D40, the 60 was similar in penetrating performance and handling, only through its larger scale it was a lot tamer to fly. Like a D40 in slow motion, only actually going faster!  I love the D40 and the D60 is everything I expected and hoped. Its a great aeroplane for many reasons.

I like the sound it makes. Its a great airspeed indicator. Very helpful on the front for climbing out and landing. It also does a nice little tail waggle when you start to get too slow. An excellent stall warning.

Stoked!

Stickers certainly create drag unless, of course, they're go-faster stripes.
Even then, it's critical they are placed the right way round. The pointier end needs to face forward.

Stickers certainly create drag unless, of course, they're go-faster stripes.
Even then, it's critical they are placed the right way round. The pointier end needs to face forward.

Oh yes, and the sticky side needs to face down or a) it won't stick very well and b) things like bugs, or even yourself will get stuck to it... 

Another [mostly] good day out with the D60 yesterday. Managed a new D60pb, first 194mph then later 205mph. It was nice to clear 200 and it happened relatively easily except for the sun being right in the top turn. Sun... yes, the sun finally came out.

My second flight needed the flaps taped and a clean landing because of the failure of one of my flap servos, which had stripped (Hyperion DS095FMD). Yesterday was only its third day out. I have never landed it with the flaps down. I have always dumped all flaps/brakes before touchdown. I won't say any more, since I understand the poor quality of the Hyperion servos is now widely known, I just wanted to add my experience to the collection of knackered servos. Shame I didn't know about them when I ordered my plane. The bad press only emerged a couple of weeks after I got mine. I would have gone with the Futaba S3150's if it wasn't for the sheer convenience of having the Hyperions included in the kit and therefore immediately available - doh!

I've had my hyperions in my pace dse for about a year and no probs must be a bad batch which you bought steve .
jools

Seen lots of D80s, 60s & 40s flying in a variety of conditions at a number of sites & they've been very impressive.

Yesterday watched a D60 (one of 4 on the hill) preparing to land making a very hard but slow turn just over the deck with crow fully deployed.
No hint of a tip-stall. Incredible for a plane with such performance.

Then, thanks to a very generous flying buddy,  I had a first brief taste of flying a D60.
It's no featherweight, yet it's performance in light conditions left me gobsmacked.

More congrats to Joe Manor

Have started building up brownie points with the Missus............

Yesterday watched a D60 (one of 4 on the hill) preparing to land making a very hard but slow turn just over the deck with crow fully deployed.
No hint of a tip-stall. Incredible for a plane with such performance.

A bit of geeky theory: Crow has the effect of greatly increasing washout. Having the flaps down and the ailerons up causes the root section to have a significantly greater AoA than the tips.  The root will consequently stall first while the ailerons are still 'flying' and providing useful roll control. A plane is very unlikely to tip stall with crow employed, especially full crow.

Have started building up brownie points with the Missus............

This is very important.  Dust off your fountain pen and start writing that Santa letter.

Bit of Hot Airs D60 from HH on Tuesday, mobile phone footage but it will play in 1080p and no wind noise just the metallic sound of the D60 sclicing through the air. Nice !

D60 Ds at HH

Was on the phone w Joe last night. Should have a bunch of D60 arriving in a couple of weeks. For those who have been waiting thanks for your patience! And there will be some stock left over. For those of you considering one PLEASE note - this shipment will be the last before the price increase Joe announced a while back on RCG. Good time to buy!

I might get a spare!

Z

PS D130 will be here in time for the March winds...

So is that enquiries to tony@sloperacer.co.uk?

Ian

Bit of Hot Airs D60 from HH on Tuesday, mobile phone footage but it will play in 1080p and no wind noise just the metallic sound of the D60 sclicing through the air. Nice !

Nice one Chris, thanks!

So is that enquiries to tony@sloperacer.co.uk?

Ian

Whichever people prefer.

Z

need to build up another D60 fuz, Scar Tisure (RIP) and my light weight shared 1.
Considerations.
1) What elevator Servo?
2) Where?

Scared to put a ds095 in, and although the ds09's seem upto the job, For how long?

Also, I popped the top seem from the fin about 150mm forward, so part of me is thinking reduce the mass in the rear, to reduce the kinetic energy and improve longevity (I know the answer is not to tent peg it, but it happens, and mine is not the only one to pop, and cyno doesn't work long on this kind of repair).  So is it worth while putting a bigger servo further forward and putting in a bell crank? Mode joints for slop, but if done correctly should be stronger and more reliable than a ds09 in the tail.

Re. the seam popping, have am also considering getting some more kevlar in the boom before I do the install. This is how I fixed my other seam pop, and well when I berried the model upto the tail, the boom was still ok. Hmm, maybe it was over kill, last time round I did a internal and external, maybe this time just do the internal.

Any interested in any of this?

Did you crash one? Sorry to hear it if so... I was surprised to see you landing your on the back last time out. For me (and it's only my opinion) it's just not worth the risk of landing heavy DS models on the back. I can't see the win in the situation. You also can't go round again if it's not looking good on approach.

Whilst DS models are built stronger than most anything else, they are usually carrying more weight than most anything else - in my opinion these two things may well cancel themselves out somewhat, so I'd argue that normal landing standards should apply where possible. Consequently I try to be really disciplined about landing - if I don't feel 100% sure that my approach will result in a good one, I abort it. Even if it means going round and round several times. Front side landings into wind to minimise ground speed every time for me. I think that would minimise most landing dinks better than looking for a tricky solution to moving 30g of servo weight forward.

Z

Front side landings only for heavy planes for sure. It's wisest to keep the ground speed to the minimum possible. My heavy MCT stalls at about 27mph (airspeed). We've all done sweet landings and still had a chunky mound or tuft hit the wingtip and cause damage, or found the only hidden rock on the slope.

Will, I fixed the seam on my D60 using a Dr Hobster technique of some carbon cloth stuck to a strip of diamond tape, wetted out and placed along the fuz. I laid nylon taffeta ribbon over it as a non-stick buffer, put some kitchen towel over that for padding then wrapped the sucker tight with electrical tape.  It only needed a tiny strip of lead up front to re-balance it. If that seam breaks open after this fix, it would have to be the result of something pretty bad.

As the big winds are a coming these will come in handy. Approx 220g each.

Will need trimming slightly for D60, probably go in as is for the D80 etc

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/150441459612?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649

As the big winds are a coming these will come in handy. Approx 220g each.

Will need trimming slightly for D60, probably go in as is for the D80 etc

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/150441459612?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649

nice Idea, but beware.

If I was to wing ballast a d60 again I would do a couple of thing different.
1. Re-distribite the weight through the wing. My initial build had 10oz out board of the aileron servo. Now I would probably put 3oz out board of ailerons, 6oz between aileron and flap servo.
2. put less in, first had 10, 7oz per wing would be ok. (Some may say this is even too much) Yes rick will say it can take it, and yes it can, but I can't!.

Thing with the lead shown is it would be to concentrated, and that means it has more chance of breaking free, and that causes greef, imho, stick to roofing lead cut in to strips

Will,   Its for the fuz mate, not wing tips.  I already have 7oz in tips and flies great but 35mph + the extra weight would be needed

D60 dont need ballast to go fast

Out of interest, I didn't put as much as 10oz outboard of the aileron servo on mine, mainly as I didn't want the aggro of figuring out how to fit it in. So I went with 7 outboard and 5 inboard of the aileron servo for a total of 12. However, I must say that I think that 10 - 12 per side is the absolute outer limit before the empty weight of the model starts to make it impractical as an everyday DS funster - despite how quick they can go, I think that's one of the most important D60 roles! As it is at 84oz, mine is just about good to go on lightish days, but it needs a little shepherding at first. I think with 10oz the empty weight is around 80oz.

Tis true that they don't need lots of ballast to go fast - but it probably makes it easier! I've not DSed Whumpcrump, Dave, but it looks fairly compact - as such I'd err on the light side at that site tbh. Your empty weight of maybe around 74oz sounds good. But you're right in that at a site where circuit size is not an issue, on a big day, for most pilots, larger circuits with a heavier model are easier. As long as they're not so big that the model's getting hard to see!

Z

btw note for Dave... After changing radio to Aurora, which resulted in a bit of battery repositioning etc, I didn't bother to check the CG, and it turned out really well. Originally had it at 61mm, but having now checked it after a brief discussion re elevator trim etc with Dave, I find that it's now at 64.5mm. I like how it flies better now.

Z

Flew the D60 today at Whumpcrump for a few hours before the rain came and CofG is now back to 62.5mm.  The fuz wing seating was modified slightly so the wing fits better at the rear.

The wind was 15mph max and she climbed out alot better with Camber.

Felt alot better behaved and on rails now front and darkside.

Darkside circuits were still quick, considering the lack of wind speed.

Looking forward to a 30mph+ day.  Skirrid would be even better 

Still need to sort a switch out for my D60.

Any suggestions.  Magnetic, jackswitch ??