Topic: RCMF Phase 5 collective, build log

I think we have a few who are or about to start building a Chris Foss Phase 5. So to avoid any duplication, I thought it would be good sport useful to put the efforts on one thread. I received my plans this morning from the hallowed halls that are at Shoreham on Sea. Fortunately I don't have to go out and buy much wood as I can filch it from the stock I got for the Minimoa I haven't built yet  .. I've decided to be a wuss and not build up the wing, and I'm going to get Foamwings to make me a pair. So far I've cut out the two fuselage sides (minus the nose bit which is cut separately if the balsa is 36inch long.) More as and when.

I am sure that there is always a Fossie Kit/Plan being built somewhere in the UK.
I have a plan of one which I will be starting very soon

This is very timely.

I received my Phase 5 plan just this morning, though it will be a while before I can make a start.

I'll be watching with great interest.

Mr Foss presented my cheque last week but I'm still waiting to receive my plan - hopefully it will arrive early this week

My build plan is a built up wing with 'direct drive' servos - but otherwise pretty much as per the original with perhaps a few strengthening mods in the fuselage. I suspect mine will be a fairly slow build but hopefully this thread will give me the inspiration to make good progress.

I did read somewhere that the elevator response is a bit 'sluggish' - might consider slightly bigger tailplane area?

Mr Foss presented my cheque last week but I'm still waiting to receive my plan - hopefully it will arrive early this week

My build plan is a built up wing with 'direct drive' servos - but otherwise pretty much as per the original with perhaps a few strengthening mods in the fuselage. I suspect mine will be a fairly slow build but hopefully this thread will give me the inspiration to make good progress.

I did read somewhere that the elevator response is a bit 'sluggish' - might consider slightly bigger tailplane area?

Hmmm, Fossy does seem a bit slow in posting out after cashing the cheque. I'll stick four servos in the wings too, and I've seen a few places where the fuselage construction can be altered. The ply nose keel needs letting into the top and bottom sheeting for example. Not happy with it just being a butt joint.

Will be watching closely. Also hope to start build shortly.

It's a great build - this will either inspire or depress you - sorry about the 'loud' scheme (wear shades when viewing...)

Not had a sec to order my plans yet. Still I found out today that one of the guys on the slope has one he might want to sell me. Would that be classed as cheating ?

They are a nice model to build and fly. Found the push pull rudder not too effective. There is a good build thread on another forum that may be of interest.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1053327

Tad

Not had a sec to order my plans yet. Still I found out today that one of the guys on the slope has one he might want to sell me. Would that be classed as cheating ?

..Not if you total it first time out and do an Alex special 'How to repair a P5'..

They are a nice model to build and fly. Found the push pull rudder not too effective. There is a good build thread on another forum that may be of interest.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1053327

Tad

Closed loop to my rudder - HUGELY effective - I have a pushrod to a belcrank in the fus 

..Not if you total it first time out and do an Alex special 'How to repair a P5'..

Harsh, but fair

Done a bit more this afternoon. I've decided for no other reason than I fancied a change to use alphatic glue instead of the usual white pva. Those with the plans (or have built one) may notice the thicker non spruce longerons on the rear fuselage. I had some 10mm square ramin in my untidy pile stock of wood. It does mean I can delight in lots of planing to get the round profile and not break through-that would be a bad thing I think.

I've cut the three formers from 1/4" (6mm if you're posh) light ply; former three is doubled up with 1/4 balsa. I haven't yet decided on whether to put in a closed loop or a carbon pushrod for the rudder. My recently demised Hybrid Pat Teakle Dominie/home brew fuselage, has pretty much all the hardware/servos I can put into this, including the mechanism I made to make the AFT--pretty much a work of genius, although I say it myself!

Hi chaps, this sounds interesting I may build one with you!!     

What's the general thought on wing section + other mods?

I have used E374 in the past but this may be a little old hat now. is there something a little more modern?   I'm not interested in fully symmetrical, need to keep it versatile.

Beenie

Hi chaps, this sounds interesting I may build one with you!!     

What's the general thought on wing section + other mods?

I have used E374 in the past but this may be a little old hat now. is there something a little more modern?   I'm not interested in fully symmetrical, need to keep it versatile.

Beenie

I don't know if you're aware but the P5 goes from an E374 at the root to fully symmetrical at the tip. I haven't ordered my wing cores yet so I'd be interested on people's thoughts on an alternative section before I do.

I don't know if you're aware but the P5 goes from an E374 at the root to fully symmetrical at the tip. I haven't ordered my wing cores yet so I'd be interested on people's thoughts on an alternative section before I do.

That is interesting, I used to use sd8020 for wing tip & tailplanes on my old thermal soarers back in the days when home builts were used in open & F3J comps. I need to have a look through my old stock of templates.   

Beenie

I love the wing on the P5 - it's slippery and yet remains efficient - it's pretty good inverted without giving too much away in the way of efficiency.

Blended sections are 'the latest thing' you know - Foss nailed it three decades or more back 

The symmetrical at the tip induces a bit of washout while keeping a 'section'.

Neat trick.

I don't know if you're aware but the P5 goes from an E374 at the root to fully symmetrical at the tip. I haven't ordered my wing cores yet so I'd be interested on people's thoughts on an alternative section before I do.

Change the section and it is no longer a P5!

Change the section and it is no longer a P5!

Very good point! 


Anyway, the phrase 'balsa bashing'...Some of us take it lidderally..

A bit more done this afternoon..
 I've put in 1/16 ply doublers for the first 7 or so inches of the nose rear of F1, which should give a bit more strength where the two parts of each fuz are joined (If you don't know, the fus is longer than a 36" sheet of balsa, so the nose is separately cut to get the required length)
I looked at and read CF's instructions about mounting the fuz sides inverted on the rear decking which is propped up on 3/8th" packing pieces,as the two fuz halves are brought together and decided it wasn't what I wanted to do (read: A lot of faffing about)...so did it the way I have, and clamped it at the tail, glued in F3, F1 at the nose, and after checking it's all square and proper, leaving it to set overnight.

Steve - well done!...looks like you're making rapid progress - reckon you will be on your second one by the time the rest of us get our act together.

Nice crisp clean plan arrived in work today - will order the wood this week but need to start and finish my 'Lundy Box' as a priority. I suspect my P5  build may take a while.

I glassed mine waaaaaaaaaaay back - polyester which of course you wouldn't do now - on the inside of the nose, both sides from the front to the former at the wing L.E. - that fuselage is nearly three decades (and two wings...) old, so that worked 

It's now completely glassed and I'd recommend doing that (outside I mean) 

I glassed mine waaaaaaaaaaay back - polyester which of course you wouldn't do now - on the inside of the nose, both sides from the front to the former at the wing L.E. - that fuselage is nearly three decades (and two wings...) old, so that worked 

It's now completely glassed and I'd recommend doing that (outside I mean) 

I was intending to glass mine from the nose back to the wing root on the inside. I'm glassing the fuselage on the outside. I did it with the homebrew fuz on my Dominie and it was like a cricket bat! It's dead now, but broke at the wing saddle (the only part with an open side), the rest stayed intact.

Crammed quite a bit into today (day off work).. The doner for the AFT is inside the fin of my dead homebrew fuz...as you can see, it is a bit broke!

The P5 has a 1/16 ply nose 'keel' which is supposed to be butt jointed along with the balsa block either side..I've slotted the top and bottom 1/2" sheeting and cut the ply with tongues accordingly.. I think it will add a bit more strength to the nose..

The rest is reasonably straightforward: I've mixed some glass frit (Micro balloons) into epoxy and run it as fillets into the corners of the forward fuz. I'll be cutting some glass cloth to shape and mixing resin to line the this area, and back in the wing saddle area. The hatch block is tack glued and will be carved with the rest, to get the almost obscene curves that befits a P5.

Sand it round - from memory about 1/8" of the triangular fillet strips end up showing when the corners are sanded away 

Could I ask - how much for the plan/postage?

£9 for the plan,  £4 P&P...cheque and cash only..doesn't take cards.

Thanks for that

Steve - well done!...looks like you're making rapid progress - reckon you will be on your second one by the time the rest of us get our act together.

Nice crisp clean plan arrived in work today - will order the wood this week but need to start and finish my 'Lundy Box' as a priority. I suspect my P5  build may take a while.

Please can you let us know what the wood cost is for the p5. I'd be interested to know a's interested to build one myself.
Thx.

Ahhh razor planes..doncha love em? The results of a (very rough) initial plane down to get the approximate shape on the pointy end...A certain magazine editor will of course say there's about a pound of wood to be lost yet just in this section, I'll get there! 

About a pound and a half.....................    


But it's looking good to me 

A pound and a half later...

If you have no hang ups about buying balsa wood and carving off most of it, to be thrown in the waste, then you'll be okay. If you really feel bad about doing that, then this model is probably not for you! 

I've spent a goodly amount of time with the nose over the green wheely bin filling it up with shavings. Planing and sanding an awful lot of wood off. The hatch section I've glued in two triangular pieces along the inside of the vertical and horizontal pieces, as it looked as if I was in danger of planing quite close to the corner where there was fresh air. Anyway..Round Mr D said it should be, and by jingo, round it jolly well is.

Been a bit busy on other things and not had the time to do any building..but I've pressed on. The AFT mechanism I filched from the dead homebrew fuz, and built the P5 fin framework (5/16ths balsa)  around it. The bellcrank itself is from the AFT of a MPX Cularis , it's approximately the same size (a little deeper top/bottom) but as near as makes no difference, and saves a lot of messing making your own. I made a ply box to put it in, with brass bushes cut from an old aerial. (2nd fave tool, is a tube cutter).
That done, I sheeted it with 1/16th balsa, and fin post and LE is 1/2inch balsa.

I've added the servo trays in the fuz...and then set about the stab. I've departed from the plan, and sandwiched a 1/32 ply core between two 3/8ths balsa skins. Two CF tubes for the AMT should be sufficient. The pivot will be retained with a collett. The root willl be faced with ply when it's all planed and sanded. Currently it's roughly shaped.

Nice Steve.

Re amt? How is that different from the plan? What does plan suggest? Single sheet with drilled hole for tubes?

I'm thinking of amt for my Diablo. I like amt.

Where do you buy your hardware from or tubes piano wire linkages etc from?

Thanks.

Nice Steve.

Re amt? How is that different from the plan? What does plan suggest? Single sheet with drilled hole for tubes?

The plan shows the front/back (two pieces make up each half)  from sheet balsa. Slotted to accept brass tube for the pivot and actuator rod, and then capped. I've put a ply core in to cive me a sharp TE and offer a bit more rigidity to the CF tube that I'm using instead of brass. (3mm bore)

I'm thinking of amt for my Diablo. I like amt.

Where do you buy your hardware from or tubes piano wire linkages etc from?

Thanks.

The bell crank was from a Multiplex Cularis glider (you'll probably be able to get one as a spare part). It's plastic, but braced and quite robust. I used it and built the ply and square spruce box around it, for my homebrew fuselage and it worked very well. Although that time, I didn't use CF tube, but brass square section, 3mm CF rod for the actuating rod, and piano wire for the pivot. The colletts set into the stab with just the grub screws visible to tighten to the piano wire. I also glass clothed it, to make a very rigid structure. The tubes don't go far into each half, about 50 mm for the pivot, and 30 mm for the actuator. 

This time, I'm using CF rod for the pivot too.

I used to get AMT flutter if I really bullied it - I've now counterweighted the LE root so that it's front, rather than back heavy on the pivot line which should sort that.

I've also used a shorter stiffer carbon pushrod running in a guide tube for belt and braces!

I used to get AMT flutter if I really bullied it - I've now counterweighted the LE root so that it's front, rather than back heavy on the pivot line which should sort that.

I've also used a shorter stiffer carbon pushrod running in a guide tube for belt and braces!

Where did you run the counterweight Steve? In the LE of the stab? What did you use? Worth knowing before I start sanding it down to shape.

Can you see what it is yet? Stab planed and sanded to edges that are sharper than a sharp thing. Cut two rods to mount to the fin, and dry assembled to the fuselage. It's going to need some ballast forward of the pivot, no doubt about that-I might solder up a Y shaped wire and put a blob of uranium (if I can't get lead) on the nose of the leg, and stick the two legs in each stab half just out from the root.

I think it was Yoyo who recommended (apologies if I'm wrong) using Ronseal Floor varnish, diamond hard. It's fantastic to use, and dries quickly on balsa, and keys the glass cloth into the wood. The rudder, tailplane and hatch have been done, with an extra coat of varnish to fill the weave. It's then rubbed down with 250 and 400 grade. The fuz n this shot has had the sides, bottom and nose done. The rear deck and the first side of the fin and forward of the hatch have just been applied. I quite like the fin shape (sans rudder)