Topic: RCMF Phase 5 collective, build log

Pretty much finished the construction on the port wing. Made servo well covers from 1/16 ply which are screwed onto spruce bearers. The wing is very stiff considering it's lightness. The plan was flipped over and I started building the stb wing onto the tracing. I'm quite pleased with things so far and with any luck it won't be long until i can think about mating the two together. I'm going to have two nylon screws mounted centre just in front of the TE and just behind the LE. So the centre section will be beefed up with basswood and drilled for the screws. This is the stb wing under  construction, with the port wing behind it.

Trying to get on with it as and when. Both wings are almost complete. LE's shaped, and surfaces sanded smooth. I've cut two ply cores to shape and sandwiched it between two pieces of 3/8ths balsa, these are the wingtips. The flaps and ailerons like the wings have to be shaped from a semi to a fully symmetrical profile (root to tip); the flaps aren't so difficult (slight undercamber), but the ailerons have the TE finishing mid way on the thickness of the plank, whereas where it matches the flap, the TE is on the bottom edge, which is why CF says it is impossible to try and sight it for trueness, it will throw you!

Anyway, I've nailed the first tip on here, the core being aligned with the centre of the spruce LE midpoint, and the TE of the aileron. The aileron is only clamped up with balsa strips here, I'll be hinging later. Hoping to get it all done by the end of the week..but forecast is high winds, probably not suitable for a maiden...I'll think of a reason.

Had the pleasure of seeing a local at the slopes phase 5 fly today.

Ok its not in the same performance league as my acrostar or other mouldies speed/effeciency wise but as an aerobat, its one of the most pretty planes to watch.

Youll love it, they are sweet.

It's that stage where lots of little things need doing. I've been reasonably busy with it, but the little things take the longest! I'd glassed the wings top and bottom earlier in the week after sanding final shaping to the tips. Today I got around to nailing the two wings together; I had to find a way of exiting the servo cables into a position where I can screw the D connectors to the wing root underside. I had to cut two arches in the wing joiner, but reinforced it with CF strip. I also carved a block of wood that fits in the space under the forward sheeting and bridges the roots. If I was going to do it again, I'd make the centre two ribs (each side) from ply rather than balsa. I accidentally knocked both out..but they'll go back in before the sheeting goes on between the main spars and TE.

Home stretch at last! It's always the detail stuff that takes time I find; by which I mean things such as making the mounting blocks in the root for the wing bolts. Drilling them in the correct position (I did, makes a change!) , fitting the wing to the saddle and sanding the saddle to make sure the wing sits straight in relation to the fin and tail. Completing the film ironing on the fuselage, where I left it loose on the saddle top. Then the wing covering...I was going to make the underside half checker board /half plain yellow, but I didn't have enough yellow.

So back to plan A, and do the whole underside checker board. I haven't glued them yet, but I've fitted the hinges. As you see here, I've dry fitted the flaps and ailerons. I now need to solder the servos to the cables, and fit the pushrods, followed by setting it all up, and the eventual maiden.

At long bl**dy last. The last bit was inevitably going to the longest..but it's finally finished. Resplendent in it's finery and with the sun out, I thought I'd have a portrait before it gets tota...maidened.

CG is set slightly forward of where the plan recommends (anyone have any experience on the sweet spot is for CG on this?)..Just waiting now for a decent westerly.

Great job, nice and shiny. I hope it stays that way. Good luck on the maiden. Jimbo.

Hi can anyone give me some info on where to get a phase 5 plan or maybe someone could send me one? cheers

Hi Mike,
Try this page.
http://www.chrisfoss.co.uk/#/constructional-plans/4538948935

John

Hi John i have tried calling the number on that website for the last two weeks but cant get an answer?

Just to chip in (and apologies for not reading al the thread yet) - I've had a P5 for some years. A  great build.

I glassed and sprayed the fuselage and used a two piece blot on wing (using the original section), which was a bit of a faff, but helps with storage and transport. I went for 4 mini servos and have it set up with crow brakes, inner ailerons moving at 50%, coupled flaps and elevator etc etc!!

Lovely looker and flier til it got mid-aired by a Zagi and lost the rear of the fuz. Not to be outdone, it's been rebuilt as new and flies again. 

Enjoy!

Hi John i have tried calling the number on that website for the last two weeks but cant get an answer?

PM me your address and I'll send mine. I've even traced the wing through to the reverse...I'll apologise now for the few tears on the creases..but I'll tape them up.

Well I have the wood and the plan, and currently nothing to repair or build.

Is it time to start the Phase 5 I always wanted?

Oh, I also have the solartex too, orange, yellow, white and a hit of leftover blue from the Diablo.

Oh get on with it man! Just remember the flaps and ailerons have to follow the continuation of the camber as the wing from semi to fully symmetrical. Great fun, just make sure the razor plane blade is sharp.

It sure looks like a challenging build. I'll be going for the built up wing again. May make up some sort of wing box, and lay up the central areas with carbon/ply.
Fuse will keep stock but will reinforce aka Diablo with 1:32 down the length. Won't glass it, just standard covering. Will try and build light for flying on local pimple.

Been setting up, speccing wood studying the plan etc.
Im going to make the 3/16 fuse side from a 1/16 balsa/ply/balsa laminate and im going to slim the fuz down as much as i can, by making more than the specified 3  ply formers, again prolly beef them up if in front of CG. Will try to keep the tail light. The box section sure is interesting.
Have most of the wood but ill need to order a little more as im short of some of the stripwood.
The plan is to start on the tail and work forwards to the front, then do the wings.
l'll prolly go with 2 hs85 inside and 4 hs85s outboard. Does the wing (eppler section) respond well to camber changing?
Thx. Jimbo.

Oh get on with it man! Just remember the flaps and ailerons have to follow the continuation of the camber as the wing from semi to fully symmetrical. Great fun, just make sure the razor plane blade is sharp.

This really is important or it won't line up at each end and this affects the rolling performance and/or lift performance, depending which end you set at 'neutral'. I tried using trailing edge stock but quickly changed to the job properly with a razor saw experience and a piece of sheet balsa.
One of the little joys CF brings to his designs!

Yes, the wing responds extremely well to snap / crow / droop and reflex!

This really is important or it won't line up at each end and this affects the rolling performance and/or lift performance, depending which end you set at 'neutral'. I tried using trailing edge stock but quickly changed to the job properly with a razor saw experience and a piece of sheet balsa.
One of the little joys CF brings to his designs!

Yes, the wing responds extremely well to snap / crow / droop and reflex!

Ok thanks, i will make the TE from the specificed rather thick pieces of balsa..

Ive been forward to a bit of balsa bashing.

Been setting up, speccing wood studying the plan etc.
Im going to make the 3/16 fuse side from a 1/16 balsa/ply/balsa laminate and im going to slim the fuz down as much as i can, by making more than the specified 3  ply formers, again prolly beef them up if in front of CG. Will try to keep the tail light. The box section sure is interesting.
Have most of the wood but ill need to order a little more as im short of some of the stripwood.
The plan is to start on the tail and work forwards to the front, then do the wings.
l'll prolly go with 2 hs85 inside and 4 hs85s outboard. Does the wing (eppler section) respond well to camber changing?
Thx. Jimbo.

Erm...reflex yes, full span camber not needed for me, crow brakes I found a total waste of programming, it doesn't need them. . But go very easy on the reflex deflection; 2mm is ample (with the required down elevator compensation). You don't need a lot of throws on anything really. It can get it all very disorganised if you do. Very little elevator throw because as it's all moving, you're using the full chord of the stab and it doesn't need a lot. I wouldn't go a bundle on the extra formers, as it's unlikely to make it more curvy, but will add mass it doesn't need. The curves come from   a) slightly thicker internal stringers to plane into when you b) plane and sand the thing to within an inch of it's life. The thing you need to put out of you mind is it isn't and never will be a mouldy, and won't have the capability to be uber round (unless you totally change the design, in which case it won't be a P5)..what it will have though is a very strong and light structure that is easily repairable if needed. Oh, and it flies well too.

Thanks Steve.

I intend to use some of my mods that I made to the Diablo  I built here. Which incidentally were very successful. Will be a challenge to try to make a 2 piece wing. I'll reinforce the centre again Diablo style.
I'm of the school weight in the wings but not in the tips. Weight in the fuze but infront of the cg. Stiffer is better.

I may even go as far as weighing stuff and using some carbon I have.

Point taken about the mouldie but I can bring some mouldie tech over into the p5.

I wont treat it or expect it to fly as a mouldie. I have a nyx furio and a pace vxh for that.

My p5 will be another of aerobats.

crow brakes I found a total waste of programming, it doesn't need them. .

Kind of depends on your landing zone. Worked fine for me.

Kind of depends on your landing zone. Worked fine for me.

I'll add crow, programming takes about 2mins. Nothing to lose there.

The only complication of including crow is to decide how you hinge the ailerons and flaps. I top hinged the ailerons and bottom hinged the flaps....

I top hinged flap and aileron, but top horned the flaps..the rod goes through the wing and exits just in front of the false TE. I did this to maximise the mechanical throw, but as I'm now not using crow, I don't need it. So would have got away with bottom horns on all four surfaces.

Made a start, templated some formers. Reduced the width slightly, f1 is now just big enough to hold a battery, took 5mm off, f2 15mm, f3 10mm. Maybe even improves the knife edge, who knows.

Tail is cut out. Will glue tommorrow.
I may make a modification to the tailplane. Scale it up maybe by 5-10%, was reading earlier in the thread authority is a little poor.
Amt crank is going to be epoxy board. Will use 1.6/2mm piano/brass tube for the Amt runners as I have some lying about. Wing Joiners I have suitable 10mm steel/carbon joiners, I may add some wing ballast tubes, again I have spare steel bars/tubes for ballast lying about. I Will need to read up on getting suitable strength around the wing box area. Carbon/balsa/ply composite wing box springs to mind.

Tail is cut out. Will glue tommorrow.
I may make a modification to the tailplane. Scale it up maybe by 5-10%, was reading earlier in the thread authority is a little poor.
Amt crank is going to be epoxy board. Will use 1.6/2mm piano/brass tube for the Amt runners as I have some lying about. Wing Joiners I have suitable 10mm steel/carbon joiners, I may add some wing ballast tubes, again I have spare steel bars/tubes for ballast lying about. I Will need to read up on getting suitable strength around the wing box area. Carbon/balsa/ply composite wing box springs to mind.

I don't know where this story  about the tailplane not having authority comes from. Chris Foss reputedly took one half off on his originals maiden flight, and flew exactly the same aerobatics he'd just done with both halves. It's all moving, so it doesn't need a lot of area. I have almost halved the throw on mine, as it's very sensitive.

Not much but I made a start on the tail.

I don't know where this story  about the tailplane not having authority comes from. Chris Foss reputedly took one half off on his originals maiden flight, and flew exactly the same aerobatics he'd just done with both halves. It's all moving, so it doesn't need a lot of area. I have almost halved the throw on mine, as it's very sensitive.

My P5 was always soft on elevator when looping. Fine in normal flight. No slop - played with CoG etc, never really understood why. CF does suggest coupling ailerons and flaps in the build instructions, to tighten loops, so perhaps he found the same? It outside looped fine. I'll get around to mending it some day and my P6, which looped fine with a conventional elvator and similar plan form!

My P5 was always soft on elevator when looping. Fine in normal flight. No slop - played with CoG etc, never really understood why. CF does suggest coupling ailerons and flaps in the build instructions, to tighten loops, so perhaps he found the same? It outside looped fine. I'll get around to mending it some day and my P6, which looped fine with a conventional elvator and similar plan form!

Is this a Phase 5/6 at an ambitious price on Fleabay?

http://search.ebay.com/120841484543

Is this a Phase 5/6 at an ambitious price on Fleabay?

http://search.ebay.com/120841484543

It's an outrage @ £200. It's possibly a P6, definately not a P5. I'm apalled by those ghastly pegs to hold the canopy on. If the rest of it is built/engineered like that, well avoid it! It does't even tell you if it's a Pro or Sport wing, or if it's a P6, for that matter.

I think it's a Middle Phase, not a P6.. deff not a P5.. Or is it one of those Ninja things?

Looks [to me] rather like a Flair Heron. Anyhoo... very best of luck to the vendor 

Them kippers all looked the same - as do F3X models today  - too me anyway...

Looks [to me] rather like a Flair Heron. Anyhoo... very best of luck to the vendor 

I wondered about that too, I had an old Heron that looked like that, but it did look very like a P6 too...

£20 might be more like it though.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120841484543&ru=http://search.ebay.com:80/120841484543_W0QQfviZ1

Bargain basement now...£100

My P5 was always soft on elevator when looping. Fine in normal flight. No slop - played with CoG etc, never really understood why. CF does suggest coupling ailerons and flaps in the build instructions, to tighten loops, so perhaps he found the same? It outside looped fine. I'll get around to mending it some day and my P6, which looped fine with a conventional elvator and similar plan form!

James Hammond says!

An AMT spends much of its time stalled and is therefore not so effective.