Topic: Enlarged B.T. Me 109e

Having built Brian Taylors' 68''span Me 109e, I thought  about building a larger version, 80'' seemed a good size, as several componants I would need for this size of model could be sourced. To my knowledge there is no 'e' version of the 109 - scale - available, so my only option was to scratch build.
The only part unavailable is the cowl. To those that know the 109, the cowl is 'busy' area of the plane. This is something I will have to tackle later in the build- some advice and assistance may be required for this.
 After having the plans enlarged,it was time to to cut all formers and ribs.
Once I had all parts cut, the central crutch was assembled over the plan.
The lower formers and  centre stringer were then added.

Nice. Watching with interest 

Once  the adhesive had cured on the formers, it was time to 'plank' the lower fus. For this planks were cut 1/2'' wide and bevelled both sides to assist with application, and allow for a good finish.
The front box section was assembled next. At this point the firewall was marked and holes drilled to accept  my choice of engine- Zenoah 38- T' nuts were also epoxied in place.
[ Specified attachment is not available ]
 I added 1/8'' x1/4'' strip to each side of the box section to ensure correct alignement when mated to the fus.

 The cut-out in the side , is to allow for thr carb. and carb. trumpet. Fuel tank to be located in the top part of the box.
The two parts which make up the fuselage assembly were then joined , and top formers added once adhesive had cured.

Looks great Keith., I look forward to seeing it

Could be waiting a while Brian. Just got out of hospital after a shoulder op. so things may be a bit slow.
  Keith

Looks very nice 
 im currently building the orignal size version now, but im seriously considering building it 1/4 scale 

Could be waiting a while Brian. Just got out of hospital after a shoulder op. so things may be a bit slow.
  Keith

Sorry to hear about your shoulder mate, hope it mends quickly

Brian

found it looks dreat so far
 andy

Thanks Brian,
                       although suffering with pain- SILENTLY- I am able to get into the workshop and do a few jobs.
Tailwheel assembly was done as per plan- prior to op.- and finishesd offwith  P 38 body filler  to make the unit look a bit more solid, and some fake leather for the gater.


Bellcranks were also made for the tailwheel steering and the elevator. Bellcranks were made from 3/32 f/glass sheet, drilled and bushed, and located on piano wire with bushes either side of the bellcranks to  stop any side movement


The image shows the rear shelf behind the pilots seat, you can also see one of the rear wing securing mount.

 All for now
                   Keith

Thanks Andy,
                       you must have posted seconds before me.

Hello 109flyer,
Are the 109 series hard to land?
thanks,
Albert

Hi Albert,
               the Me109 is not  particularly hard to land, no different to any other warbird. Taking off is another story. Because of the narrow undercarriage, and relatively small tail area, the plane will want to pull to the left, due to engine torque - no difference to the full size - so you need to be ready to apply rudder to keep it tracking straight. This procedure took a lot of practice - ground runs - to get to know the model.I've had my share of miss-haps with the 109, but there is no substitute for practice.

  Keith

   
 
   

Had quite a busy and productive  weekend in the 'office'
Staying at the tail-end, I decided to work on the tailplane .First was the horizontal stabiliser.This is made in two halves, top and bottom.The framework is built over the plan, rear spar, ribs, first part of leading edge followed by hinge blocks and  strut blocks.Location of the hinges and control horn were then marked and carefully cut out on both halves.

              

The two parts were then sheeted with 1/16'' balsa, and left overnight for the adhesive to cure.
The skins were then trimmed before joining of the two parts.The second part of the leading edge was then added.Leading edge then shaped followed by the addition of the tip blocks.

Before starting on the elevators, I wanted to make the lower part of the fin , which forms the seat for the stabaliser. This is made in two parts, of quite thick balsa. The inside of both parts need hollowing out to make room for the elevator control rod, which is carbon tube with 3mm threaded inserts for the clevis.
     

The cutouts were made with scalpel, and 1/2'' sharpened brass tube . The initial channel formed with the tube was then widened to ensure no binding of the control rod with the inner surface.
Not a lot to show for a weekends work; a lot of time spent measuring and marking.

   Keith

Very nice! I'll be watching with interest!

Who's retracts will you be using?

Steve

Hi Steve,
              thanks for looking in. I have used Unitracts air up/down in my standard size 68'' span BT 109e, and I'm thinking of asking them if they can make a set for this project. I may also contact Daryl at Sierra and see if he can come up with a set. I've looked on his website, and he does list some for other 109 designs, not sure if they woud fit the enlarged BT design. The wheels I intend to use will come from Sierra, so it makes sense to get the units from them, at least the items should be compatable. The down side of course,is spares and servicing, time and money.

   Keith

Forgot to post this pic .
 Horizontal stab. on seat, with elevator control horn connected to carbon rod.

Hello 109Flyer/Steve,
I went to my public library and found nothing on Silver Soldering techniques.  I can rework my P-47's elevators to build a control horn like you made.  Do you know the way to get information on silver soldering.
Albert

Hello 109Flyer,
Was that elevator control horn hard to make?  In my P-47 build I come up with a brutal effort at a control horn for my elevator.  It works...but not as elegant as your work.  Can you show us more pictures and description of how you built it?
take care,
Albert

 Albert,
             the control horn was not difficult to make .
Materials: Piano/ music wire
                1/16'' brass strip
                1/16'' Paxolin /  F/ glass sheet
                Brass tube
                Low temp. silver solder & flux.
                Gas soldering torch with fine flame fitting,and correct gas for silver soldering- I use MAP gas, from plumbing merchant.
 The piano wire was shaped as per plan, the bends were made by heating up the wire before bending in a vice, bending a little at a time, then reheating until you have the desired form.You must make sure that the end that fit into the elevators are both level.
A centre line is then scribed onto the brass strip,also the length of the control horn. Holes are then drilled near each end - different sizes- one for the piano wire and one for the clevis.
Cut and shape  the brass strip.
The shape piano wire and the brass control horn should be cleaned and grease free , or the solder will not take.Slide the control horn onto the wire and place in the desired location. Place assembly on a fire brick or similar. Apply flux to either side of the horn, and with the soldering torch, heat the area to be soldered until it glows red, and apply silver solder to both  sides of the horn. You don't need a lot of solder to make a strong joint.
Let the work cool down, then clean with abrasive paper or similar.
The paxolin was then marked with centre line, drilled to take the brass tube, then shaped. Smaller holes were then drilled , this allows a good / secure fitting when epoxied into position.
Paxolin parts are the carefully placed into position on the piano wire..
Job done.

Hello Keith,
Thanks for your careful explanation.   I will endeavour into silver soldering.  Seems a matter of practice.  Thanks for picture too.  It has become so hot here that one can not really work in the backyard shop and enjoy.  Need to let a couple of these worse months go by.  I will get in there and redo what I can.  I made one really super error.  Being a beginner I just noticed that the elevator on these giant size war birds all have the control horn fixed to the horizontal stabilizer.  I need some help from you now again.  You see I was thinking that all the movement of elevator was being maintained in position by the Robart pin hinges.  This is not the case.  I see now that the entire horn has to be "grounded" to the horizontal stabilizer.  Problem is that the stabilizer is glued to the plane.  Oops.    I can get rid of the elevator and restart that.  Do you think I can solve the problem of pinning the control horn and piano wire to the existing stabilizer?  I mean can I cut in and fix it or do I have to restart the whole stabilizer?   I have just barely tacked glued the stabilizer so I could cut it with a Japanese hand saw cleanly and rebuild the stabilizer.  The stabilizer is not glassed to the fuselage that is glassed.  This is a mistake that was due to my lack of experience.   I wonder if I could let it go and fly it as is?  Please let me know...anybody. 
Take care,
Albert

Hello 109,
I have decided to scrap and cut of the horiz. stab and rebuild the elevator and go at it again as you did.  My drawings call out for say 3/8 on layer construction.  I want to ask you if I should develop it exactly like yours and use half the thickness called out in my drawings.  Then use two mirrors of the horiz. stab. go on like you did.  Is this rational?
thanks,
Albert

Hello 109,
I was just thinking about something.  When I was building the horz. stab.  I was just blindly following the plans.  Turns out that at the that time I was convinced and even asked some experts if HS was flat on the bottom.  What the intent of the drawings was for me to pickup on the fact that the HS was in two (2) pieces not one.  I was thinking about the plans in my mind and I remember that the side view on sheet 3 had the HS not flat bottom.  The detail that showed the ribs of the HS had all the ribs flat bottom.  I was suppose to build two parts,  the top and the bottom , that are mirror images built flat and joined.  This is in keeping with the building techniques I have studied from Brian Taylor and other seventies era builders like Jerry Bates too. Also this build.   In my defense there was no real good note for a beginner to notice it . I was lucky after pondering it that it occurred to me. The only hint that is given is in the side view the plans are showing the elegant symmetric HS.
Well it is off to rebuild the HS.  I can easily do this and incorporate you control horn, except that this one will have two horn as I have two control rods coming in.  This explain another thing why the vertical stabilizer was coming down on the fuselage.  If you see the pictures I had to notch the  fuselage where the vertical tail came in.  Now the HS will be twice as thick and raise the VS and clear the fuselage.
take care,
Albert

Hello 109,
Back at the post when you described the way you constructed the horn you mentioned the brass tube.  The brass tube must not be very long.  Maybe as long as the paxolon (I use mother board of the same thickness , called here fiberglass card board) is thick.  It can not be much longer than that as one can not make it go on around the bend of the piano wire.  What I understand is one epoxies the brass tube to the paxolon...correct?  I purchased my hand held propane torch today and silver solder and flux and heat resistant brick.  I spoke to some jewelers and say that as long as the hand held torch (which is refillable) delivers a blue flame from the propane it should reach the temperature required.  Also confirmed with a plumber that the hand held torch will work on silver solder.  The silver solder here has no silver content ratios.  It is believed that silver content is the highest available and silver ratio is higher than 60:40 alloy as a percent total.
Thanks for your response,
Albert

Albert, if you look at post 18 it shows the brass tube fixed into Paxion.  It adds some durability to the construction. 

Silver soldering is just like working with ordinary solder but at higher temperatures.  I use a 42% Silver solder and the powdered flux which I blend fresh for every job I am working on. Clean metal surfaces and the correct flux for the type of solder you are using are more important for silver soldering I have found.  A little practice on a few joints and you will be sorted.

MJ 

Hello mRjolly,
Yes got it so it is as long as paxolon is thick fixed to the paxolon with epoxy.  I will check the flux to solder ration and verify with experts.  I wonder if the hand held refillable torch is adequate?  Also the question on having two horn?  I will be installing the other horn about an inch away. Will the other solder come loose?  Do I have to come up with something different?
Albert

Having not posted for a while, thought it time for an update.
Construction of the  horizontal stabaliser and elevators is now complete apart from covering the elevaters. The elevators built as per plan, although I opted to use 3/32'' for the core, the same will also be used for the rudder.
               

The air reservoir for the retracts is located in the lower fus. just aft. of the wing seat.

The lower half of the stab. seat has also been glued into position, control rods, sleeves for the rudder closed loop system installed- for these I use retract  air-line , the fus. spine has also been fitted . If you look at a side profile of the 109e, the spine has a slight curve towards the tailplane, this was shaped prior to final fitting.


The on/off swith and air fill valve have been positionedbehind the rear of the cockpit. The 109 has a hatch in the rear of the cockpit, so I thought this an ideal place to locate these items. And yes, the the canopy will open/close.
   
The upper half of the fin has been shaped, and the rudder is under construction.
Glass cloth has also been applied to both sides of the stab.The stab. will be fitted prior to final fitting of the upper part of the fin.
Things have been moving on slowly this week, due to me having to carry-out some repairs on another model.   

   Keith
 

Hello 109flyer,
I enjoy your updates and appreciate the details. So what it is going slow.  It's not a race it is a passion.
Enjoy,
Albert

Nearly two weeks have past since my last post, so I thought it time for an update.
Having completed the repairs on the smaller 109, I was able to continue with larger one.
The horizontal stab. has now been secured on lower part of the fin, after no - ends of measuring and remeasuring for correct alignment. Once the epoxy had cured, the upper part of the fin was also epoxied in place.



Final shaping of the rear fus. was the carried out, and also thr recess on the rear of the fin to accomodate the rudder.A small section of the fin was then removed to allow fitting of the elevator- which will secured once all detailing on the elevator is complete.



The rudder and both elevator halves were then covered with solatex. Detailing and adding the rib-tape will be the last things to do before the rudder and elevators will be fitted.
 This weekend, has been solely dedicated to making the plug for the cowl.
For this I have used blue foam/styrfoam. The plug was made from two piece of foam, and after careful marking and removing some of the inside, the two halves were joined using gorilla glue.

      

The side profile and plan view were then dran onto both sides and top and bottom of the foam before cutting  to shape. Several hours were spent getting the final shape with use of some acurate tools. Namely - hacksaw blade, rasp. various permagrit tools, sand paper and the Mk.1 eyeball.
The lower air intake was made separately then fitted into place. the gun troughs were shaped.

   

For now i'VE HAD ENOUGH OF SHAPING AND SANDING- AND CLEANING UP - of blue foam.Still got the various blisters to make and fit, before this stage is finished .

   Keith

Very nice Keith, it looks great and you've made excellent progress for just over a months activity!

Alan

Thanks for the comment Alan.
                                               The building side of the project has come to a standstill at the mo' as I am spending nearly all my time producing the cowl. Several hours spent cutting out and reshaping some of the areas I was not happy with, namely rear most part of the gun troughs.I'm still not 100% happy, but once the cowl has been glassed, I can apply some filler, and shape correctly.
The blisters for both sides at the front of the cowl have been made and attached, along with 'odd shaped protrusions'  at the upper rear part of the cowl.



The cowl is now showing signs that it belongs to the '109e'.
The foam will glassed next, before adding some more detail. I was only going to make this as a one-off, but as there is a lot of time gone in to making this , I may well have a mold produced.
  Keith

Having recently returned from holiday and things starting to return to normality, I've started back on 109.
 The plug for the cowl is progressing slowly,' glassing ' and sanding . Needless to say, this is a slow process as one waits patiently -   for the resin to cure before proceding to the next stage.

 Meanwhile, at the opposite end of the airframe.
 The elevators and rudder have had some detail applied , namely rib stitching and rib tapes.

 

 The control rod was then secured into both elevator halves prior to the leading edge tapes being applied.

 The interior of the cockpit has been lined with lithoplate,prior to painting,  no photos of this at the mo'.There is conflicting information with regards to the colour of the cockpit area. I have some photos showing grey, while other colours mentioned in books or various websites are black or dark green.Not sure which one to go for.

  That's about all for now,
                                  Keith
               

looking good Keith...... ......keep her coming

Hello Keith,
Very interested in the plug of cowl progress.  I have never seen on make.  Keep up the great explanations and pictures with how the plugs and molds are done.  Fascinating.
Albert

Time for another update.
                                       In between sanding, glassing and sanding the cowl plug, I have been busy making some items to kit-out the office.
The first was the Revi gunsight.The version for the 109e is the Mk 12,  which is not commercially available.Inzpan do a Revi gunsight, but this is a later version. So having trawled the www, I managed to find a few images that would give me something to work to.
Having cut some chemiwood into the required sizes, I set to work with some basic tools to produce this:-



After producing some of the smaller items that fit onto the sight, and a touch of colour the result is :-



I also made the circuit breakers that are located on the s'bd side of the cockpit.



There are still plenty of items to make, it seems the smaller jobs appear to take the longest time to do.
  Back later,
                    Keith

looking great Keith...worth all the hard work mate!.....

At last, work on the cowl plug has come to an end, I just hope it is good enough to make a mold from.
The last few days were spent applying the detail.
 Gun troughs were applied first. Initially I was going to use lithoplate, and this was going well upto the point where I had to mold the litho' into the barrel end of the trough.In this area the material require shaping in saeveral directions, and even after annealing, I still could not get the form that I wanted.
Plan B. At this point I opted to mask the shape that I wanted, and simply built up the required thickness with auto primer paint.



Here you  can clearly see the shape of the trough, after the masking tape has been removed.



On this image, I left the masking tape in place. 3m masking tape was used to get the shape I wanted,  the remainder of the cowl was covered during this process.
 Once this task was complete a light rubdown to eliminate the rough edges.
 Panel lines and the circular blisters near the gun troughs were then applied followed by a light rubdown with wet and dry paper, followed by a firther coat of auto primer.







Once the cowl has been produced, further detailing will be applied, latches and some rivets. I have arranged to have the molding done for me, so once I receive the finished  article, I will post some images.
         
        Keith

Hello Keith,
If it is not too much trouble I would like to see the work that you are having done.  Is there anyway you can get us pictures on the final plug from the firm that is working on it?
Very interesting.
Albert

Albert,
             the last three pictures on this thread are the final plug. This will be sent off for the mold and the final product to be made.
                Keith

Hello 109,
Thanks.  Any chance for some photos of that final process?
take care,
Albert

Albert have you seen this: http://www.rcmf.co.uk/4um/index.php/topic,86572.0.html?

It'll be a process very similar to this that gets used. Nice plug by the way Keith