Topic: dry brushing

Can anyone recommend a type of silver paint for dry brushing ?
Cheers
Danny

Never tried this myself although it is used a lot for weathering and for giving a worn look to cockpit instruments . Those that I have seen before have used Tamiya paints , paint on brush ,most of it wiped off on a tissue until almost dry then brushed onto the part .
I think Idigbo would probably be a good one to answer this .

Be very careful with this technique, Septic. It was popularised by Verlinden for military models. It makes everything look like a part of the set for Thriller.
It is also intended for small "table" scales, not our large scales. Even a four footer is 1/8th scale generally.
It also has the negative effect of putting so called "dirt" on the top of detail, when it should be in the buried nooks and crannies, where cleaning rags don't get to.
If you want chipped panels, paint it on with a very fine brush with thin silver paint, the best you can find.  Or make the parts from ally, paint them, then chip for real with a very fine file.
PLEASE don't dry-brush.

I have built many dioramas and scenic set-pieces.  It used to be my job.
A proper job does not include dry-brushing.  Thinned colour just let in around gauges and prominent detail will do the job.  Airbrush for smoke,
ground pastels for general dirt.

Hope that helps.
A/C2

Thanks for your comments it is much appreciated. I didn't want to pester Ian and thought I would see what others use first.

A/C2 what brand/type/color do you recomend for painting the chips on the edges of panels?

Cheers
Danny

Dry-brushing silver to simulate worn paint is very effective because whilst "dirt" should be in the nooks and crannies, the wear should be on all the high-spots which is why dry-brushing can be very effective for things like the worn paint on cockpit controls, seats, instruments etc. There are other techniques for the "dirtying down", like using washes with very thin greyand brown paints. For examples of how this is done have a browse though the various build threads in the "FighterAces" section, plus other threads by Idigbo. There art plenty of professionals who *do* use dry-brushing alongside the various other techniques in their inventory.

PDR

Not professionals who've done it for years and did their "apprenticeship" on scenics.  It's a sloppy technique for such a large scale model as a model aircraft. The model should be worth individual attention with a fine paint brush. Something a professional can do quickly and effectively without recourse to the dry-brushing con trick.

Danny, if you take the silver pigment from the bottom of the tin and mix it with a little of the oil at the top you can control the texture well enough to be convincing.
All weathering needs to be carefully observed from life.  And always underdone rather than the opposite.

PM me if you like.
A/C2

Hi Danny

I've seen your models fly, and very impressive they are too. I'm guessing this is for the Spitfire?

Like PDR said, have a look at some of Idigbo's build threads on here for illustrations of the dry-brushing techniques involved.

Well if you say so. Personally I'll look more to the advice of the threads where I've seen the results.

PDR

ac2, I can't believe you say dry brushing is the wrong technique for what Septic is looking to replicate

Like Pete says, wear is on the high spots, exactly where dry brushings leaves paint!!!

Dry brushing can be very delicately placed, and the fact that it is used on small scale dioramas can only prove the point, making using the same techniques on larger scale jobs even more subtle and believable!

You've only got to look around the internet, books and events to see that its very widely used.

The dirt then goes over the top, usually in the form of washes etc.

Danny, if you are at the Nats, I'll bring some of the silver I use for you to try this rubbish and archaic technique

Ian.

Danny, if you are at the Nats, I'll bring some of the silver I use for you to try this rubbish and archaic technique

Well remember you must give it to him rather than sell it, because dry-brushing isn't done by "professionals"...

 

PDR

Hi guys, I thought this was a pretty innocent question. I have done dry brushing before and used in the right situation, along with other techniques, find it is acceptable at my level of modelling. Ian I will come and find you at the Nats, I am staying over Friday and sat night bit have to be away early Sunday morning. After a peek in the swap hangar of course
My question was simply what color/brand, and base are people using? I have used a variety of Humbrol oils, and Tamiya acrylic silvers but am always open to being shown a better product. I even tried one of those silver pens to good affect on a Hurricane.

Thanks peeps
Danny

Danny, just look at the B26 build. It uses a well known barrier technique perfected by people like Chuck Doan, etc.  It doesn't use Verlinden's cacky dry-brushing "technique", any more than Doan et al do.
Because of the scale of the model aircraft being talked about a far more accurate technique than dry-brushing can and should be used simply because the size allows you to. Dry brushing can be got away with in a few instances in smaller scales because it is non-specific.
The only time it is anything like convincing is when it is done by a real artist and with none of the gung-ho cover-all attitude it is usually used with.

The problem with model aircraft is the stand-off scale versus absolute scale divide.  For stand -off, dry brushing to lighten a few protuberances might work, but it doesn't on absolute scale.

You can listen to the know-it-alls if you like, but I know what I do from very considerable experience, not setting myself up as the oracle of the hobby.

I am used to the vitriol thrown at me by the users of the Verlinden technique, but have always drawn comfort from the fact that when I entered a tank model for which I'd measured and photographed the real one and made the master pattern in brass for the castings, I finished it exactly as the real vehicle at the Carver Barracks on the day I measured it and the dry brushers went very quiet indeed.
As a professional I was not entered in the competition.

Your choice.

A/C2

I would like to have had a silver finish underneath my paintwork to cut back into but I cannot afford the weight. As you will appreciate a flying model has to remain light enough to actually get into the air.
The area I am really focussing on is the wing walkway, which on the early Spit I am modelling is scuffed to high heaven and is mostly exposed alloy. More than I have ever attempted before. Greg Veasey has used wire wool dipped in silver on his Zero, I believe. (A Top Gun model that did very well I might add). Okay not exactly dry brushing but similar technique.
Here is the Spit that Leccy mentions and that I am weathering....



Cheers
Danny

Danny, just look at the B26 build. It uses a well known barrier technique perfected by people like Chuck Doan, etc.  It doesn't use Verlinden's cacky dry-brushing "technique", any more than Doan et al do.
Because of the scale of the model aircraft being talked about a far more accurate technique than dry-brushing can and should be used simply because the size allows you to. Dry brushing can be got away with in a few instances in smaller scales because it is non-specific.
The only time it is anything like convincing is when it is done by a real artist and with none of the gung-ho cover-all attitude it is usually used with.

The problem with model aircraft is the stand-off scale versus absolute scale divide.  For stand -off, dry brushing to lighten a few protuberances might work, but it doesn't on absolute scale.

You can listen to the know-it-alls if you like, but I know what I do from very considerable experience, not setting myself up as the oracle of the hobby.

I am used to the vitriol thrown at me by the users of the Verlinden technique, but have always drawn comfort from the fact that when I entered a tank model for which I'd measured and photographed the real one and made the master pattern in brass for the castings, I finished it exactly as the real vehicle at the Carver Barracks on the day I measured it and the dry brushers went very quiet indeed.
As a professional I was not entered in the competition.

Your choice.

A/C2

A further up your own ringo post you'll never see!!

Martin, in the words of a very well regarded scale modeller, "there are many different ways to skin a cat"

It all depends on the wear you want to re create. The vaseline method is brilliant for chipped and flakey paint, but for very fine scratches, scuffs and the like, dry brushing still has to be the most widely used of the 'adding silver' ideas. Danny, The silver paint I use also gets used as a final primer underneath areas or whole models that are extensively worn.

I am slightly offended at being regarded as a know-it-all too Martin, it read like it was aimed my way, as I am all too well aware that there are many other ways of doing a job that are different to mine and I'll take on board positive influences from anywhere. You might do well to re read your own posts in this thread to discover who the self proclaimed knowledgable one is Martin, perhaps not the way you mean't it but you certainly came over that way

Ian.

Sorry Danny, that Spitfire is looking superb mate

Ian.

Gentlemen, it would seem A/C2 has left the building. Now back on topic ....

Gentlemen, it would seem A/C2 has left the building. Now back on topic ....

phew.... a bit touchy?

Danny - she's looking superb 

Thanks guys 

You will see all the wing walkway damage I am struggling with in this pic, from what I can see this side would be from the crew, the port side would be from the pilot and crew.



Any suggestions on how to replicate? I was going to try wire wool dipped in silver paint then dabbed nearly dry......

Cheers
Danny

Dare I say it, dry brushing!     In the pic, the paint is worn completely through in areas, but the edge is feathered considerably since the wear is made up from fine scratches, eventually these scratches all join up to a completly paint free area. I'd draw on feintly the solid silver areas, paint this in but as the brush gets drier, feather the edge too, then, reload the brush and repeat. This works well for me but you can paint the solid areas then feather the edges after if its easier for you. If there isn't that much solid area, then you could dry brush the whole lot, but you'll have to be careful not to leave marks in the built up areas as the brush gets drier. Have a practice on a pre painted test area 

Ian.

Ian- I have been struggling trying to reproduce this.... could have done with your advice before, what I have done is ok from a distance (its only an ARTF after all) but close inspection shows it up.

Is it the YT Ki84 you are doing Bob? That pic shows weathering due to lack of priming before the paintwork was applied, with the paint flaking off. This could be dry brushed, but would look better using a barrier such as vaseline or latex between the silver coat and the green. After the green is done, simply rub off the latex, or wipe and clean off the vaseline. I prefer to use latex as it cannot leave a residue and I find it less messy. Either way its basically the same method.

Ian.

Yep, its the YT, too late for all that I'm afraid, I have let rip with silver paint, and, from a 'stand off and squint' outlook it is ok. The ideal would be, as you say, silver covering and spray over and scrape off. Ah well, its storing ideas for the next project!

Hello Sep,
I like the concept at the top of all the comments.  That one being that at the giant scale dry brushing as it used may only be good in the cockpit.  Less is best.  I would not try to dry brush a giant scale plane because at that scale the real world gives it it's own little betina on the surface.  Leave that dry brushing to the real giant scale master class semi static guys. IMHO.
Albert

Just to point out that Danny's Spitfire isn't Giant Scale - it's a 72" span model, which makes it about 1/6th scale.

It's also not semi static. it's a flying model.

Just to point out that Danny's Spitfire isn't Giant Scale - it's a 72" span model, which makes it about 1/6th scale.

Was 30 years ago.... 

Still is big to me......

It's the perfect scale for a Spitfire IMO Danny - have you got a Dragon BBI driver for the office?

Hi leccy this has an AH Designs chappie. It was meant to be a quick build, fly lots type model. Unfortunately my obsessive compulsive detailing kicked in 

...and very glad we all are that it did

The maiden is approaching very soon, by the sound of it.

If your driver is looking for some extra detailing there's a nice BBI 1/6th scale RAF lifejacket on ebay at the moment.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1-6-SCALE-WW2-RAF-PILOT-LIFE-JACKET-SQN-LDR-K-GORDON-/220838442005?pt=UK_ToysGames_RadioControlled_JN&hash=item336aff3415

Thanks Leccy, good find. You don't see as much BBI stuff come up these days.

I have a Gordon and desert clothed pilot (can't remember the Dragon name) So I am probably good, but alwayd useful to keep on eye open.

Cheers
Danny

Thanks for your help Ian and great to see you at the NATS. I will try the silver paint and see how it goes. I will only use a little and get the rest of the can back to you. Unless of course its ace then I might go deaf 

Cheers
Danny

Hi Septic,

lovely spitfire & seen your hurricane on rc scalebuilder also very nice, I am a world leader in drybrushing , if you go into gamesworkshop they have an extensive range of acrylic metalics working from dark to light, start with a dark shade & work your way inwards progressively using a lighter shade( the lightest shade should be used as a point or a sliver depending wether it is on an edge or a flat surface) you will be amazed at how good this looks if done properly. It is also worth noting if you can see the paint going on the model there is too much on the brush you must wipe 95% of paint off before you apply it to the model, a large flat tank brush is the best.

Chris
 

Hi guys, I thought this was a pretty innocent question. I have done dry brushing before and used in the right situation, along with other techniques, find it is acceptable at my level of modelling. Ian I will come and find you at the Nats, I am staying over Friday and sat night bit have to be away early Sunday morning. After a peek in the swap hangar of course
My question was simply what color/brand, and base are people using? I have used a variety of Humbrol oils, and Tamiya acrylic silvers but am always open to being shown a better product. I even tried one of those silver pens to good affect on a Hurricane.

Thanks peeps
Danny

Danny.
I've learnt there is no such thing on this forum as a 'innocent' question.
By the time people get down to about answer 12- ish, it generally develops into the normal   ',..... and what the F*** do you effing know you blank blanker.....'.
I thought it was a good question........ Hope it works for you.
Oh, by the way; ive used humbrol flat silver dry.

Hi Septic,

lovely spitfire & seen your hurricane on rc scalebuilder also very nice, I am a world leader in drybrushing , if you go into gamesworkshop they have an extensive range of acrylic metalics working from dark to light, start with a dark shade & work your way inwards progressively using a lighter shade( the lightest shade should be used as a point or a sliver depending wether it is on an edge or a flat surface) you will be amazed at how good this looks if done properly. It is also worth noting if you can see the paint going on the model there is too much on the brush you must wipe 95% of paint off before you apply it to the model, a large flat tank brush is the best.

Chris

Chris, I would love to see some pictures there.... 

Have not got a camera to hand so some old photos will have to do, like said it works when used correctly & in the right places, the pilot is best pilots 1/5 scale sailor mallan, the whole thing exept the face has been drybrushed & inkwashed not in that order, the thing to look at is the belt buckle there is 3 shades of metalic silver to get that effect with a base colour, medium colour, & the edges picked out with the brightest colour(used the least) you are casting your own light on the model masively important when in a dark cockpit the details will still jump out at you with out being to obvious

You have no idea how wonderful it is to see a pilot figure that actually looks like a 'real' pilot!

Nice work and a very good resemblance to Sailor Malan

Respect!

PDR

Great piece of sculpture - seems almost a shame to hide it away in a cockpit.
Mike

There's a good document by Mike Johnson of "Aces of Iron" on painting techniques for pilots.

http://www.acesofiron.com/Paint_Special/Aces_Paint_presentation.pdf

Thanks Jordy, that pilot is beautifully done 

I have seen the aces of iron steps, one day..........

Cheers
Danny

Hi Danny, Having seen your Spitfire up close today I can say hand on heart you have got the weathering  spot on. A truly magnificent model you have produced there my good man. It had me fooled   (you know what I mean ) Thank God Elvis left the building!

Hello Wiz,
Nice post on painting faces and such. Thanks.
Albert