Topic: Need a new camera

I need some help choosing a new camera. I've had Canon all my life, last one was a 30D, until a brief fling with a Nikon D300S after I sold up a couple of years ago. I was looking to upgrade at the time and a friend lent me his D300 which I liked so I bought an almost new D300S example with a kit of Nikon lenses including a horrendously expensive zoom. Late last year my camera bag with camera and all lenses, flash, tripod & other eqpt was stolen from my car boot. Earlier this year the insurance coughed up a decent sum and I've been meaning to get around to buying replacements. I had been thinking of a 50D but see Canon have now replaced that model with the 60D but I don't know anything about it. The only lenses I have left are some old Canon/Vivitar/Tamron lenses from my old A1 film camera so my choices are pretty open.

Subjects are of course airplanes, model & real, together with all the usual landscapes & buildings with a sprinkling of wildlife.

Help - what are your body/lens suggestions, all I've been using is my G2 for most of this year.

Steve

This could be a long thread, but a good way to start is to say that you have used both Canon & Nikon, which did you like best?..... bit like the Futaba/JR debate it really could come down to what you feel most comfortable with?.........

I think most who are honest would say that the best options for serious amateurs would be Canon primarily for the lens choice, but we have users here who swear by both so I think the initial decision is yours!.....

Let us know the make then we could narrow the model down?.......

Andy.............

Well - 35 years with Canon, less than 2 with Nikon and recently was considering a 50D. That says most of it. The flirtation with Nikon and more modern lenses gave me the upgrade I was looking for at the time however I still prefer Canon menus.   Simply looking for opinions/suggestions on models to consider in that area, not a partisan war on brand loyalty. Things like what you liked about your choice against something else for example.

Steve

I think that any crop sensor DSLR would suit your needs. IMHO Canon have the edge on the lenses with more available and lower prices for the equivalent lens. Nikon however currently are ahead with the bodies, as they have a better autofocus on the midrange cameras with only the 7D matching it (they also have maginally better higher ISO performance too).

Canon wise you are probably looking at a 60D or a 7D, the 60D is smaller than the 50D and is no longer metal bodied (some like, some don't). Nikon wise probably a D7000 or another D300s. I wouldn't be surprised if the D300s got replaced in the next year so a good deal may be able to be had. For models and full size I think a good combo would be a 7D with a 100-400 L lens, you're talking around £2k for that combo, but any better would require a beautiful large prime or two! There is a Nikon 80-400 I believe (but not sure on it's performance) so this with either of the Nikon bodies would be good. There is also the Bigma (Sigma 50-500 I think) which is available in both Canon and Nikon, but IMHO doesn't have the IQ to match either the Canon or Nikon.

I think that the options are very closely matched and you should probably try to get to play with a few bodies and see which feels most comfortable.

Personally I shoot Canon, but I have been tempted by the D700 to replace my 5D instead of going for the Mk2. Just waiting to see what the next 6 months may yield in terms of the 5D MkIII or D800. Knowing me I'll end up with a 1Ds! I am already looking at replacing my 40D with a 1D MkIIN for better autofocus.

Just while we're talking about camera upgrades, fit anyone with a Canon camera it's well worth looking up CHDK which is an add-on firmware project that adds a huge number of features like RAW shooting, time-lapse, motion sensitive triggering (fast enough for lightning!) etc.

It's as easy to install as putting a file on an SD card, and since it makes no changes to the camera (it disappears when you take the SD card out) Canon have said they are quite happy about it.

Hi Steve,

You want to go to a site like dpreview &  have a look at all the information about the various cameras etc

Here's the 60D link - http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos60D/

TTFN,
Neil

As an Oly user I feel I should at least mention their products in this thread. Depending on your budget there are a variety of DSLR models available from the E5 all the way down to the E450, with several in between (I had an E-450 and upgraded to an E-620).
An advantage that most of their bodies have over the nikon/canon equivalents is in body image stabilisation which can save a fair bit on the cost of lenses. A lot of the higher quality lens are supposed to be superb, I only have the entry level (2 kit and the 70-300) but even those seem to get very good reviews and I find them more that capable for my needs.
If second user kit is of interest, there are quite a few bits sold via this site:
http://e-group.uk.net/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=29

You should be able to review some of the images from members too if you want to check image quality.

A lot on that site are moving into the m4/3 world, so expect more kit to be advertised as time passes and generally at less cost (and from a more reliable seller) that ebay.

The latest DSLRs are so good it must be very hard to choose.  I just bought the lowest-spec Nikon (D3100) and - good grief! - I can't believe how good it is.  The photo quality, even at ISO 1600, is just faultless.  ISO 1600 today is better than ISO 100 was a few years ago.  The colours are so sort of fluid and subtle and wonderful, this really is in a different league from a few years ago.  The vibration reduction telephoto lenses are wonderful for model plane shots - I can now do perfect shots with a 450mm lens (35mm equivalent, it's called 300mm for the DLSR) whereas in the past camera shake almost always ruined those really long telephoto shots.   Of course Canon are just as good, so it's awfully hard to choose.  My advice is get the latest generation, because the latest ones are definitely better.  For instance the D3100 is better in some ways than older higher-end Nikon models still on the market.  So whichever mid or high end Canon or Nikon you buy, make sure it is a recently released one.

Good info coming in - please keep it coming! 

I'll follow the links up at the weekend, I shall be away until Friday night.

Thanks again,

Steve

There are users who swear by both, and some are foolish enough to proport one manufacturer being better than the rest. Thats Bull

Dont worry about menus, they are all different even amongst the same manufacturer, canon especially like to make them ALL different!. My D7000 is totally different to my D700, you get used to what you are using and neither are perfect by a long way...most are now customisable to some extent.

There ARE however differences between the cameras, the price points, the lenses and the functions each camera in both ranges excell at. Buying a camera is going to be dictated mostly by what you want to do MOST and BEST.

Lozza is using Nikon, with a top of the range lens fitted to a middle of the range body (unless he upgraded and didnt say so) Now he is shooting fast moving jets at a set sort of range. He also now does the odd landscape, that camera is capable of both. I can tell you that there isnt a Canon in the range short of the 1D's that can match most Nikons average body autofocus speeds. The 5DmkII for example is a stunning camera but the AF is just a little bit dissapointing, Hence Barry bought one for landscapes at which it truly excells. Canon have much more lenses, cheaper lens options and higher pixel count in thier bodies for the most part. However, forget pixel count, its mostly irrelevant unless the difference is HUGE. for example the difference between 12mp and 24mp is not double, its only 50%. Therefore 18mp is so close to 12mp that the difference is negligable. Mostly the lenses are much the same, a good option for distance and usability compromise is a 70-200 with a 2XTC, easiest and best way to get 400mm F5.6 without spending STUPID money. Canon and Nikon both do them, with virtually no discernable difference in IQ.

If you want distance without really silly costs, then you stick with cropped sensors and live with the reduction in available light and DOF. If you want available light, go for full frame Nikon.

If you are shooting fast moving stuff and buy Canon or Nikon you wont be dissapointed with Image quality of a GOOD shot, both will get you stunning shots but you need to make sure your body lets you GET the good shot, how many duffers will you have, how many blurs and oh so close shots... AF wise, Nikon takes it, for a cropped sensor without any doubt at all with more focus points, more crossover points and superior AF software for the mostpart.

The 7D is a good camera from Canon, fast frame rate, great IQ..AF isnt lightning but its not bad, its no D300s though in terms of AF speed.

Now is NOT a good time to buy a D300, the replacement is not far around the corner and WILL be much, much better leaving you the option to buy newer better, or ebay yourself a suddenly available bunch of cheaper used D300s!!

Go test a few from each manufacturer, dont get blinded by menus...get a feel for similar priced bodies and make sure you test them on something moving FAST

Hi Rich et al,

Got to disagree with you about the Canon menus all being different - the 7D & 1D iv are basically the same - except there are a lot more options on the 1D iv, as you might expect.

Far be it from me to comment on the different AF performances, but I think a read of this little lot, below, will show there's nothing to choose between the 7D & D300s. However, there is one department the Canon cameras are really on top & that's their video capability. Far superior to Nikon.

http://www.cameralabs.com/reviews/Canon_EOS_7D/lens.shtml

One other point that hasn't been mentioned - software. I don't know what comes with other cameras, but the Canon software is very good. There is a lot of stuff to play with.

The best plan is to go down to your local camera shop & try 'em all out & then go away & have a good think.

TTFN,
Neil

I hadn't really twigged the fact the 60D wasn't intended as a natural replacement for the 50D.

The insurance coughed up a little short of £3.8k and for that I need to get a body and decent longer zoom, (I find I can't really manage more than 400mm whatever I do), a decent wide angle prime replacing the 20mm, a mid range zoom 40-85ish kind of size, a new flash, decent tripod - still have a fairly good Manfrotti & a basic Velbon & a monopod so maybe I'll wait,  a new rucsac style bag & a small bag for a camera & lens & cards. There were loads of CF & SD cards taken together with lots of accessories like reflectors, IR triggers, filters and other things I've forgotten. Also a really nice pair of Swift Audobon binoculars which I'll miss but probably shan't replace with like.

It's a funny feeling shopping for something like this because normally it's a collection acquired over time with choices dependent on your existing kit. Having a free choice I think makes it harder. I felt the loss acutely at the time but now it's quite exciting to think about going out and starting again.

Saturday looks to be a good flying day so I hope to take a trip into town in the week for a better look round.

Steve

As mentioned above I own a 5D mkII and love it to bits. For what I do it is just about the best lump out there. But, in your position with your subject matter I'd look very seriously at the 7D, the 100-400L (got one and it's excellent as long as you keep the aperture stopped down a third of a stop to f6.3), a 17-40L for standard work, a 105 f2.8 macro (Sigma or Canon) for macro & portraits and a Sigma 10-20 f3.5-4.5 for ultra wide playtime. That should leave enough in your budget for a decent tripod, bag and a 580EX flash. Sorted. Any more money you'd like me to spend for you?

I'm not strictly a Canon man however, I adored my Nikon D2x and still occasionally miss it's af and ease of use with all the well placed external controls. I am however with Rich on the fact that both the D700 and D300s are likely to be devalued fairly soon when replacements arrive. It doesn't make them any worse cameras, both are great it's just upsetting losing that money instead of saving it when their cost comes down when the replacements are launched.

These days I'm hankering after a 1DMkIV for sports and wildlife as a second body to remain permanently attached to my 100-400 but it's in a queue after a 16-35L f2.8 and about as likely to happen as a lottery win at the moment.

As a bit of an oldie who has not had a 'proper' camera for years (last one was a Nikon slr 35mm with Kiron zoom lens) I don't hear Leica in the conversations. Years ago I had the M5 rangefinder one and it was superb, I sold it as an antique eventually but have never replaced it. I now use a Lumix with Leica lens - nice camera does HD vid as well.....but I still feel somethings missing - any comments from you guys who are more enlightened?
OMG, just googled to find out Leica info - guess it's all to do with how deep your pockets are - I am shocked by the prices!
p.s. no intention to hijack thread, just in the same position myself.

A guy I know bought a Leica a month ago - I nearly died when I found out it was around £4000 for the body plus £1750 for the lens.  The quality of the pics is superb - I think it has a full-frame sensor, and the subtle details it picks up in shadows etc is quite amazing - but overall it's quite limited compared to a DSLR.

You are correct, they do have a full frame sensor - but I looked at the M9 - £4000 for a rangefinder camera....

Any more money you'd like me to spend for you?

Wow a shopping list as well  . Now if you can adjust downwards SWMBOs plans to spend it all on furniture & carpets... I shall be sure to look at all those options in the week. Many thanks to all who have contributed, your suggestions are all most helpful.

Steve

Neilly, if you look back historically at the Canons user interfaces, whether it be control knobs, buttons, menus or dials, they have changed a whole lot from model to model much to the annoyance of many Canon users. It may be that they have stopped changing it about with the latest gear...which would be a good thing.

I have to disagree about the AF on the 7D though, on paper the 19 point AF isn’t as good as the 39-51 point AF on Nikons and having used it in practice I have found it lacking. My normal insect hunting camera buddy has a 7D, which is a great camera, really good IQ and fast burst rate of 8fps....but the AF is way, and I mean way slower and harder to use than my D700 OR my mid range D7000. This is an observation made using the cameras back to back in the field with flying birds and fast moving dragonflies. The AF doesn’t even come close to either Nikons, the D700 however comes out with the fastest and easiest to use (No surprise considering the price points). The D300 shares the same AF system as the D700 at 51 point.

The reason is the 19 point AF system, yes it may be Canons best on prosumer level cameras, and yes when they are available the AF points work well but in AF systems you don’t just need AF points that work, you need numbers of them in the frame where you can use them, for this reason the higher the number of points across a wider spread of the frame, really the better. The D7000 has 39 and the D700 (and D300s)  has 51 whereas the 7D only 19. Why does this matter? Well, the D700 has MUCH more of the frame covered by sensors, with a far higher density...meaning a higher probability of having the subject covered by one and not having to focus and then recompose....also meaning that the AF tracking has more sensors with which to compute and track, combined with more space in the frame in which to work. The D7000 is better than the Canon 7D having 36 instead of 19, but I STILL find myself getting in awkward spots or losing the subject when i KNOW the D700 would track. Now when i was using the Canon 7D , i was finding myself out of points all the time, focusing and recomposing or just shooting and hoping the thing would get lucky, not to mention tracking a dragonfly with it just losing the subject. There is really no comparison with the AF systems at all. Yes the Canon 7D gets you a great shot, but it also can leave you frustrated and quite a few shots you wish were in focus wont be. You get a higher number of keepers with either Nikons, the D700 gives me my best results more of the time.  I have to say though that the D7000 AF is really very, very good for a £900 body.
This is the very reason that the high end Nikons and Canons have very high AF point groupings, its no accident!.
 It was a choice by Nikon to offer the better AF systems on many of their prosumer bodies, whereas Canon decided to cheapen the AF systems in order to have higher pixel counts or better video on theirs...These were marketing decisions made by the manufacturers in order to specialise in something while keeping the price points affordable for prosumers. The market driven reasons for these choices are no surprise... Had Canon put their top end AF system on the 5dMKII, they probably would not have sold a single 1D!! The 5d would then probably be the best camera on the market...so they HAD to cripple it in some way. AF was the choice and it was deliberate. Nikon however cut it very close when they made the D700, they actually lost quite a few D3 sales, many people realising that the D700 was so close to the D3, same sensor, 9fps burst great ISO and 51 point tracking AF...why spend the extra?? It is THE choice for wedding togs, which has hurt sales for the D3 But it too is crippled to a point, no backup card slot and shutter only tested to 150k.

Video...well i agree its better than the D300 but the D7000 is better than the 7D on video, both 1080 full HD, both variable aperture and full camera control....Nikon has full time video AF and face recog with tracking....7D does not, no full time AF but some weird selective AF when the button is pressed and its useless!! The D7000 definately wins on Video (But the Canon is better than the D300 and all other Nikons)

To be honest, i dont think i would go for any Canon for sports or fast moving photography unless i was going for a 1D. Short of the 1D nothing in Canons range is up to the standards of the Nikons.
I wouldnt touch any Nikon if i was a landscape photographer, i would go for the 5DmkII. Nikon has nothing to match it.

This is why I said to concentrate on what you want to do the best and most often, select a bunch of cameras from both manufacturers that are supposedly up to the task...then make SURE you test them outside on suitable subject matter before you buy!

If i had the luxury of time, i would wait to see what the next instalments from Nikon and Canon are going to be. If Nikon brings out the long awaited 100-500 things will get exciting. If Canon brings out a full frame or high end cropped prosumer body with 51 point AF....then the cat will be out of the bag...

Somehow I doubt the 5D MkIII will have 51 point af, 1Ds sales would stop immediately. Personally I'm not convinced by the massive af point debate. In fast moving sports or wildlife you simply don't have the time to select exactly the right spot so it tends to be either using tracking modes and hope that the computer by some miracle chooses the point to focus on that you desire or, more likely, select one where you think you are likely to be positioning the subject and then get your technique spot on to keep the subject covered by the right point. Either way the 5DII af is shite for anything that moves but with 90% of my shots tripod mounted and manually focussed it doesn't cause me any problems. I still think that the 1DMkIV is the best all rounder currently available even though it's squarely aimed and the sports and wildlife crowd.

Anyway we digress.... Let us know the current budget and we'll see what suitable suggestions we can make..

I have to agree with barry here, although it reads well, and indeed works well in some cases, the 51 point AF deosn't give you a major advantage, with subjects that are predictable this may be the case but I regularly take 5,7,or even 9 frames and that damn bird just doesn't exsist in the last two frames!......

Andy...........

Just thought I'd add I LOVE my D300!.........

Andy.............

for that I need to get a body and decent longer zoom, (I find I can't really manage more than 400mm whatever I do
Steve

I love my D300 too especially the noise handling capabilities when I need to push the ISO up. If there is one thing that would convert me to Canon, it would be that 400mm L glass because a lot of my photography tends to be wildlife and I think it is a cracking lens.
However , the Nikon 80-400mm has been mentioned above and I thought it might be useful to provide a little info on that lens because I use one. The auto focus is slow as any review will tell you. This is the biggest down side. After working with it for over a year now, there is also a plus side. You can overcome much of it by pre focusing on objects of a similar distance away. I don't have any problems with MotoX, planes or general use. Although many say it is useless for wildlife, I also manage ok most of the time but birds in flight are difficult to say the least. Saying that my best in flight shot of a kingfisher was using this lens...but, it was planned! The best thing about it is the glass which when you get it right is beautiful. I had the 70-300 originally and despite the faster focus, I could not go back to one. Andy uses a different set up, the 2.8 70-200 with a teleconverter. This provides him with the same focal range, is more versatile and more expensive. I also struggle with the weight of that set up....However, the results are also sharp and so is the focus.
I think merits of other combinations and lenses have been well covered so I shall leave it there

for that I need to get a body and decent longer zoom, (I find I can't really manage more than 400mm whatever I do
Steve

In case you're wondering what I meant Chrissy, it's that I find 400mm as long as I can manage on a fractional size sensor. I've borrowed longer lenses but can't say I'm really happy with the results. The shots are OK but I prefer the results at that length or lower. It might be technique.

Steve

Steve, Using more than a 400mm is technique and entirely so. As you get above 400mm it takes a good technique and practice to get sharp shots. Many, many people complain about thier cameras and equipment when shooting at 600mm equivalents, but its always down to the skill of the operator. My friend with his 7D had a 50-500 siggy, and moaned constantly about it being a duffer. I nicked the camera off him and put it on my tripod and got quite a nice shot of a duck at 500mm (which is 700mm+ on a cropped sensor). He was using it hand held and waving it around all over the place . The slightest movements and shakes at 600mm are amplified on the subject matter dramatically. You need a rock solid technique, even using a tripod. Using Mirror up helps, not firing off multiple shots also helps. Remote triggers REALLY help as the action of just pressing the shutter release can move the camera. A high quality tripod with smooth action is a must, or a rock solid platform.

Deviating from the thread slightly...

Andy, Are you by chance using 51 point 3D tracking with AF-C release+ focus priority, perhaps combined with CH? (continuous high for non Nikonites) shooting in bursts?. I would also suspect that this is with the 70-200 +2xTC combination? That could be why the last few shots in your bunch were OOF. What delay have you set to Lock on for the 3D tracking? Using a TC will also slow AF performance down dramatically, even on the very best lenses.

However if the bird doesnt exist at all...how are you panning your shots

My friend with his 7D had a 50-500 siggy, and moaned constantly about it being a duffer. I nicked the camera off him and put it on my tripod and got quite a nice shot of a duck at 500mm (which is 700mm+ on a cropped sensor). He was using it hand held and waving it around all over the place .

Well - that serves him right!! No even at a true 400mm I use a decent tripod, it's just that there's something slightly lacking in clarity across the frame. Less important usually with things like aircraft when the attention is focussed on the main subject. I always just put it down to the limitations of long glass, but I'm sure as with everything my results would be more consistent with better technique.

Steve

BTW I've heard from the police liaison officer that they may have recovered *some* of my kit. Surprising if true as it's been quite a long time. What do I do, if it's true I presume it's now the property of the insurance company? But if they have them I would really like to recover the memory cards and hard disk for all the photos including from the family wedding I was at when they were stolen.

Well - that serves him right!! No even at a true 400mm I use a decent tripod, it's just that there's something slightly lacking in clarity across the frame. Less important usually with things like aircraft when the attention is focussed on the main subject. I always just put it down to the limitations of long glass, but I'm sure as with everything my results would be more consistent with better technique.

Steve

BTW I've heard from the police liaison officer that they may have recovered *some* of my kit. Surprising if true as it's been quite a long time. What do I do, if it's true I presume it's now the property of the insurance company? But if they have them I would really like to recover the memory cards and hard disk for all the photos including from the family wedding I was at when they were stolen.

Hmm. I'd have to disagree a bit with Rich on using a long lenses and having to have a tripod, and one of the things listed that doesn't help.
I'd point to the the ODI thread I started a while back as some sort of proof. Admittedly they are not the sharpest of sharp things, but most are of a quality that I (and I'd suspect others) would find acceptable.
All shots were taken hand held although I was sat down, allowing me to brace myself quite firmly.
The one I consider as the crispest (Trotty getting out, picture number 7 for those who are not cricket fans) was taken with my 70-300 at full length (on 4/3rds sensor this equates to 600mm on 35mm film), handheld. As with a few of the images posted, it is one of a series fired in quick succession, as this technique helped to alleviate camera shake from activating the shutter. It also helped me get the action shot where the ball can be seen speeding away from the bat in several of them.
Admittedly they all had IS enabled within the camera body. I've just taken a look at the EXIF for the Trotty image to check the focal length, quite surprising is the exposure and tends to show how good stabilisation is or can be.
I'm not having a go at Rich I just wanted to point out that what may not be best practice doesn't necessarily mean that it won't work, circumstances and the shot that you are trying to take may make it necessary to deviate from what is considered as best practice.

Now onto your statement that the boys in blue may have recovered some of your kit. I think you are correct in your assumption as they have paid out to you, what may be worth talking to them about is the possibility of buying back some of the kit (including your cards obviously), you never know, you may get a lens or two at a decent price. I'd want to see the kit first though if they agree, just to make sure the thieves haven't damaged it/them.

Now onto your statement that the boys in blue may have recovered some of your kit. I think you are correct in your assumption as they have paid out to you, what may be worth talking to them about is the possibility of buying back some of the kit (including your cards obviously), you never know, you may get a lens or two at a decent price. I'd want to see the kit first though if they agree, just to make sure the thieves haven't damaged it/them.

I haven't got the list or any further details yet and would need to prove prior ownership, but quite a bit of it was postcoded. Probably easily removed if seen under UV. It's at the other end of the country though, quite a bit further north than the wedding, so a casual inspection isn't possible. I'll wait until I know more before deciding what to do, if anything.

Steve

Sounds like a positive. You may very well be able to make the insurance company an offer on buying back the lot, subject to condition. 

Nick, i wasnt very clear, I didnt mean that you HAVE to have a tripod to take long shots with a long lens. I said

  You need a rock solid technique, even using a tripod.

and when i said...

   A high quality tripod with smooth action is a must, or a rock solid platform

What i meant is that if you are using a tripod, a good solid one with smooth action (If panning or tracking a subject) is a must. You need good technique and to have a rock solid base platform...you cant go waving it around or moving about with a 600mm lens and expect good shots

So technique with a long lens is essential and practice to get the best out of it, whether you are using handheld or tripod, beanbag or gorillapod, tree or fence....

Sorry i wasnt clear

Hand held with a 600mm is achievable, but you wont get as sharp a shot as you would resting on a beanbag or with tripod etc unless the shutter speed is quite high or you have VERY good image stabilisation or both

The old addage of shutter speed Vs focal length tells us that for reasonable sharp shots with a 600mm you would require a shutter speed of 1/600th of a second before shots begin to be unusable, this does not take into account image stabilisation of course.

Deviating from the thread slightly...

Andy, Are you by chance using 51 point 3D tracking with AF-C release+ focus priority, perhaps combined with CH? (continuous high for non Nikonites) shooting in bursts?. I would also suspect that this is with the 70-200 +2xTC combination? That could be why the last few shots in your bunch were OOF. What delay have you set to Lock on for the 3D tracking? Using a TC will also slow AF performance down dramatically, even on the very best lenses.

Yes and yes (apart from not using 3D), and I accept that the TC slows me down, but not really by a noticeable amount....... Lock on either normal or short, depends really on the circumstances, If the target is in the open I'll use short, in or around trees or whatever I'll use normal......

However if the bird doesnt exist at all...how are you panning your shots

I'm not saying it didn't exist!.... I'm saying its no longer there!.... can't pan fast enough if I don't have a clue which way it's going!.....

(sorry for the hijack)

I'm going to continue the hi-jack so there!

I never use my 100-400 on a tripod, it's too blooming big to use at 400mm at slow shutter speeds even when on a good tripod as the slightest gust of wind sets up a small amount of movement that is exacerbated by the high magnification and I find even a monopod too restrictive in almost every case. I settle for either upping the ISO to get somewhere near to the reciprocal shutter speed (1/focal length) or using the excellent IS with slower shutter speeds. I caught some acceptably sharp panning F1 shots this year at 1/50th of a second and I don't have the best technique around although I do have a decent sized stomach to prop my elbows against which might help some.

[snipped]
Sorry i wasnt clear
[snipped]

No need to apologise Rich, I just wanted to point out that it's possible to get the shot with less than ideal conditions or available kit.

And MP added to the hi-jacking...

I do have a decent sized stomach to prop my elbows against which might help some.

So this statement perhaps should be extended a bit:

So technique with a long lens is essential and practice to get the best out of it, whether you are using handheld or tripod, beanbag or gorillapod, tree or fence....

or stomach or beergut or paunch! 
It works for me!

I often use my lowepro as a mobile beergut, works quite well. Im working on an actual beergut and progress is promising

Andy,

By using a specific shooting menu bank combined with a custom setting bank that's geared towards action photos, you can establish and save ideal control settings for the fast moving birds you shoot. It's much, much easier to do this way since the D300 /D700 and D3 have a pretty complicated set of menus.
 
For sports, I have been using the AF-ON button programed to focus the camera instead of the shutter release, thereby separating focus from shutter release and making me concentrate more on focusing and tracking the shot than actually getting the shot. This is done with Custom Setting a1 set on Release; Custom Setting A5 set to AF-ON Only and the front camera focus mode selector switch set to C. The Mode Dial on top of the camera is also set to either Cl or Ch. I have the Dynamic AF area (Custom Setting a3) to 21 points (Less calculations for the camera and generally faster for seriously quick moving objects). The focus tracking with lock-on (a4) is generally set to short so as not to lock up resources. I have the number of AF- points (a8) to 11 for faster focusing speed. Finally, the Autofocus Area Mode (3- way switch just right of the LCD) is generally set to Dynamic Area Focus. You then use the primary centre AF selector to start locking on to a subject, If the primary sensor dances around too much while you're trying to shoot then lock it via the direction pad lever. Setting all this on the fly is complicated, hence the benefit of creating a custom bank for action photography.
 
The big thing with this configuration is that you cannot focus by depressing the shutter release as nothing will happen. You've got to press the AF-ON button exclusively to focus.  It takes a bit of getting used to but it does work very well with action shooting. Give it a try and see how it works for you. If it's not your cup of tea, simply re-set the shooting menu for that bank. 

Although i say that 51 point AF systems are best, often using all 51 points when shooting birds is a no, no as they are small and too fast. 51 point is designed for sports, i.e football pundits, racehorse togs and formular one type shooting of larger relatively fast moving subjects. 51 point 3D tracking is USELESS on fast little critters pulling 50g's on every turn .

Of course none of this will help if the birdy in question has left the frame

 

Righto... Completely the wrong place but as we're off topic anyway! I'm off on hols tomorrow for 10 days but right now I'm off to Wales so I can get to the passport office for 8am to renew one of the kids passports. Note to self, check earlier than the day before next time!

Blimmey, thats a trek to the passport office.

If you need a cup of tea on the way, pop in

Got into the passport office at 7:45 this morning, went back and picked up the passport at 9:55. In Gatwick by 12:30! all things considered it could have been a lot worse!

Just to continue with the hijack.

Barry you're bonkers! Have a nice holiday though.

Just for interest...

Well - good news and bad (isn't it always). Halfway through a call to our boys in blue on cordless phone yesterday we had a power cut for 40 mins. Power came back and called again - another power cut! Anyway they have my old camera body, postcode still present - nothing else. And it has a foreign lens fitted - not one of mine. Sounds like it may have had a hard short life from the description so I'm going to forget about it and carry on with the plan to look anew.

BTW carry on hijacking if you want - it's all good stuff I'll let you know what I decide.

Steve

I often use my lowepro as a mobile beergut, works quite well. Im working on an actual beergut and progress is promising

I use the bag too!!.... just great to lean your elbows on!.....

Andy,

For sports, I have been using the AF-ON button programed to focus the camera instead of the shutter release, thereby separating focus from shutter release and making me concentrate more on focusing and tracking the shot than actually getting the shot. This is done with Custom Setting a1 set on Release; Custom Setting A5 set to AF-ON Only and the front camera focus mode selector switch set to C. The Mode Dial on top of the camera is also set to either Cl or Ch. I have the Dynamic AF area (Custom Setting a3) to 21 points (Less calculations for the camera and generally faster for seriously quick moving objects). The focus tracking with lock-on (a4) is generally set to short so as not to lock up resources. I have the number of AF- points (a8) to 11 for faster focusing speed. Finally, the Autofocus Area Mode (3- way switch just right of the LCD) is generally set to Dynamic Area Focus. You then use the primary centre AF selector to start locking on to a subject, If the primary sensor dances around too much while you're trying to shoot then lock it via the direction pad lever. Setting all this on the fly is complicated, hence the benefit of creating a custom bank for action photography.
 
Of course none of this will help if the birdy in question has left the frame

I haven't considered the AF-ON for focus?..... can't see the advantage, but I will bear it in mind......

a3 I generally use 51! but then use either dynamic or single point I didn't realise that this would have an effect on focus speed so will also think of that one next time out!....

Your final point "If the primary sensor dances around too much while you're trying to shoot then lock it via the direction pad lever" It only dances around in 51 point 3D?......

......and if the birdie leaves the frame that's MY fault!.........

BTW birdies are no longer my biggest problem, now it's actualy dragonflies, It's become an aim to get a  decent flying shot but that's another story!.....

Andy........

Got into the passport office at 7:45 this morning, went back and picked up the passport at 9:55. In Gatwick by 12:30! all things considered it could have been a lot worse!

That's the way to start a holiday!....... nothing like keeping yourself on your toes!...... hope you have a good one anyway!.....

Andy............

Dragonfly in the air. Dont set the bar too high then do you

You are more likely to get a good shot of an F18 flying past at Mach 2 whilst doing a headstand with one arm tied behind your back.

The ONLY flying shots i have witnessed were taken on film and video by a friend of mine in the natural history dept of the beeb in Bristol way back when....and she cheated as they all did in those days and glued one to a stick, waved it in front of the cameras and edited the stick out in post. I know a lot of cheating still goes on, but im not sure to what extent as i dont get to see them much anymore.

Yes, i know if the subject leaves the frame its your fault....i just didnt want to be the one to tell you

Good luck chasing the beastie, ahab

Dragonfly in the air. Dont set the bar too high then do you

You are more likely to get a good shot of an F18 flying past at Mach 2 whilst doing a headstand with one arm tied behind your back.

The ONLY flying shots i have witnessed were taken on film and video by a friend of mine in the natural history dept of the beeb in Bristol way back when....and she cheated as they all did in those days and glued one to a stick, waved it in front of the cameras and edited the stick out in post. I know a lot of cheating still goes on, but im not sure to what extent as i dont get to see them much anymore.

Yes, i know if the subject leaves the frame its your fault....i just didnt want to be the one to tell you

Good luck chasing the beastie, ahab

Ok, so I set a custom bank up to your spec and thought I'll give it a go next time out!....... Today we were at Arley Arboretum primarily for the Autumn colours (which still aren't really in evidence yet?) but spotted a little pool with dragonflies!......... In an hour I took ten frames (non of which I'll be posting!.........) But I have to say that using the AF On does have another advantage because in the past I have resorted to going manual for this kind of shot and the AF On gets me close and then I can use manual to "pick up" the subject. Now I don't know if you've tried to take dragonflies but finding them in the viewfinder in the first place is the hard part!..... Watch this space!.......)

Glad i could offer at least something that may have helped out...as yes, i have tried dragonflies in flight and you arent kidding about getting them in the viewfinder. If you train your eyes to work independantly, you can do a basic line up with one eye and have the other eye fine tuning the focus

I cant guarantee that this wont help at all though

Glad i could offer at least something that may have helped out...as yes, i have tried dragonflies in flight and you arent kidding about getting them in the viewfinder. If you train your eyes to work independantly, you can do a basic line up with one eye and have the other eye fine tuning the focus

I cant guarantee that this wont help at all though

Funny you should say that I do spend most of the time with both eyes open!...... But no it hasn't helped YET!........

Andy..........