Topic: Hitec Telemetry

I've started this thread as a follow-on from my review of the Hitec Aurora 9 but as the whole telemetry thing is quite complicated I thought it was worth splitting it out.

Let me start by saying I have no idea what Hitec are doing with their telemetry for their AFHSS products.  By that, I mean that there doesn't appear to be a single "strategy" or a great deal of joined-up thinking; more it seems to me that in a rush to get the products to market they've made it rather more complex than it needs to be.  These are heart-felt words following about 12 hours in total of trying to get the system working correctly and I suspect that over-time the software and documentation will improve.

One of the major problems as I see it is the number of "variables" in the equation and the problems are exacerbated by a woeful lack of "official" documentation and are compounded by half-truths,lies and suppositions on various of the US forums.

I think the best way to proceed is to first of all list the "variables" and the parts they play.

HPP-22 Software



Above - 1) the HPP-22 software loaded and 2) With the interface connected.  Note the version number bottom right.

This is the software that you run on a PC.  I can see no list of "system requirements" for this application which doesn't mean there are none, just that I never stumbled across them.  There are various posts on RC Groups which suggest that there's a problem with the software running on Windows 7 64Bit but now that I have it working under the aforementioned operating system this is not true.  I also have it working now under 32 bit Vista.  There are a few versions of the HPP-22 software, the latest of which is version 1.11(0) available here http://hitecrcd.co.kr/tester/hpp_22.htm BUT before you load it with gay abandon you should know that this version is BROKEN.  The only clue to this is a short paragraph tucked away on the Hitec web-site here http://hitecrcd.com/blog/ which says, simply "If you are having an issue with 1.11, completely uninstall this version and reinstall version 1.10, We are working diligently to resolve any known issues." which was posted on 23rd August, 2011.

The first problem though is that if you have unwittingly upgraded to 1.11(0) from 1.10 (which has an auto-update facility) then removing 1.11 can be more of a problem than it should be.  There is no native unistaller but using the Windows control panel, clicking on the application and selecting uninstall resulted in the programme running and not uninstalling!  Never seen this before, ever, on any software and I think it is just poor programming.  Anyway, I eventually deleted the physical files and tried to re-install 1.10 - the first problem is finding it - and that again is buried deep in the link above.  Once found, it loaded fine despite teasing me by telling me I had to uninstall the previous first!

The issues with 1.11 are, I think, many.  Firstly I was unable to do any sort of update on the Tx software which just "hung" eventually resulting in a runtime error.  Secondly, I was unable to "bind" the HTSS-Navi unit to the module successfully and trying to update the firmware in the receivers and module was sporadic to say the least and just as an irritation the poor English used in the menus and the on-screen instructions makes life just that bit more confusing.  Hitec - get your software quality assurance sorted!  When was the last time we saw the words "as save" in a file menu?

So once you have the HPP-22 software running, you have to realise there are two parts to it.  Firstly there's the part which you use to link-up to receivers, modules and transmitters for the purposes of updating firmware and, in the case of the transmitter, saving and retrieving model setup data to your PC which by the way, you need to do model-by-model - I've not found a "backup all" function?

The second part of the software is the snappily named "Hitec Telemetry System Command Centre" or HTSCC.  This section of the software is used to enter the telemetry functions.  A problem exists (even in 1.10 software) whereby once you are in one section there seems to be no way of moving between the functions without (in some cases) exiting the software and starting again which is a bit of a nuisance.

HPP-22 Interface Hardware



This is probably the most reliable of all of the components and attaches to your PC via a USB cable and in-turn to either your receiver, transmitter or module via various different cables (supplied).  There are three ports on the HPP22 interface labelled P1, P2 and P3.  I have no idea what P2 and P3 do as all the instructions only mention P1.  Cables-wise, you're going to use what looks like a male-male servo lead to connect to a receiver or module.  Worthy of note here is that as supplied, the port on the transmitter module is covered-over by a sticky label which has to be removed (obviously) before you can use it.  This isn't mentioned anywhere as far as I can see.   The cable to join the interface to a transmitter looks like a male servo connector at one end and a 3.5mm stereo jack plug at the other which connects to the transmitter's "Trainer" port.

HTS-SS "Sensor Station" hardware



The first thing to realise is that there is not just ONE sensor station available.  I didn't realise this when I bought it and really wish I had.  There is a "Nitro" version and now an "Electric" version and quite why they couldn't have stuck to these names we will never know but, to add to the potential confusion they are named "HTS-SS Yellow" and "HTS-SS Blue" respectively.  I image there will be others coming along too.

The sensor station connects to the telemetry-enabled AFHSS receivers only and it connects by two different cables.  Firstly there's the data cable which has a small 3-pin plug on one end (not sure what these are called but they are like a miniature balance-lead connector) and a male servo pin on the other.  The latter connects to the port labelled "d" on the sensor station and the male servo connector goes to the "data" port on the receiver. The other cable is our old friend the male-male servo lead and that connects to "power" on the sensor station and any spare channel on the receiver.  The purpose of this cable is just to power the SS and nothing else.  It's not immediately obvious that two cables are required although I did eventually find a diagram on the Hitec web-site and then it becomes obvious what the cables are for!

HTS-Navi



This is an optional extra which allows telemetry data to be displayed in real-time on a PC and needs to "bind" with the transmitter module.  This is where it started to go wrong for me and I couldn't seem to get it to bind and stay bound (binded?) but I have to admit, part of this was me not quite knowing what to expect. Here's the link to the HTS-Navi manual http://www.hitecrcd.com/files/HTSNAVIMANUAL.pdf

The confusing thing for me was the final step shown below...



...and the words "Blue LED blinks then it is important to reconnect the HTS-Navi" Well my blue LED was always blinking and so you remove the Navi from its USB port, reconnect it and it takes you all through the set-up procedure ad nausium.  This was, I'm sure due to the faulty HPP-22 version 1.11(0) software because when I eventually re-installed v1.10 it held the bind.

Sensors
I purchased the kit which included the (Nitro) sensor station and a mix of sensors, comprising:-

4 x Temperature sensors
1 x Optical RPM sensor
1 x Magnetic (Hall effect) RPM sensor
1 x Fuel sensor module + 3 fuel sensors
1 x GPS sensor

Temperature sensor



Four of these are supplied.  I'm going to use 3 of these on my (Electric) flying test-bed.  One on the 5S LiPo, one on the ESC and one measuring external air temperature just for the hell of it.  The only thing of note here is the "stiffness" of the cables which make them difficult to route without creating a birds nest.  The cables are about 30cm long which, depending upon where you site the sensor station should be ok.

RPM Sensors (Optical and Hall effect)


I've only experimented with the optical sensor so far on my Sebart SU29 (electric).  I used double-sided tape to hold the sensor just behind the prop but with my set-up, it became immediately obvious the cable was too short or at least, shorter than I would have liked.  I did though manage to rig it up to test and it works.  Be careful of testing it under artificial light as the results are a bit random.  Moving the model outside stabilised things and it recorded 6,502 RPM which was within 10% of my hand-held tacho.  There is though more variance than I would have expected, at full throttle it seemed to go from 6500 down to 4000 and back up a few times.  I'll have a better idea once I test it in-flight and record the results properly.

Wiz,

I'm a bit confused about the telemetry system. Do you need to use the telemetry station in your model to use any of the sensors?

I just want to use the GPS sensor in a glider. There is barely room for that, nevermind the sensor station.

The hitec manuals/documentation are useless!

Cheers
Tom

Good idea this Wiz.

Just out of interest having bought the interface, I found the Rx's and Tx were both at the current version and the interface wasn't needed. Just something to consider if anyone hasn't yet bought the interface.

Also the software doesn't work on a Mac, but thats not a deal breaker really if you aren't planning on using the real-time data function.

From setting up the sensors for the first time, I also decided the instructions weren't brilliant. Took me a couple of attempts to get the optical sensors to work.

I'll be intrigued what you think of the GPS and fuel sensors (though I don't believe the work with petrol?).

All the leads do seem quite short though, I'll be intrigued if I can get the RPM Sensor and two temp sensors (one on the head and one on exhaust manifold) on my XtraWot.

Wiz,

I'm a bit confused about the telemetry system. Do you need to use the telemetry station in your model to use any of the sensors?

I just want to use the GPS sensor in a glider. There is barely room for that, nevermind the sensor station.

The hitec manuals/documentation are useless!

Cheers
Tom

Wiz may be able to answer better Tom, but as far as I've found you do need the sensor station to use any of the sensors. The sensors terminate in small square plugs rather than servo-ends.

Rich

Yes you need the sensor station to run any of the sensors, except receiver battery which is already built-in to the Optima RX's.

Rich, you're right about the length of the leads.  I have really struggled to get the RPM, GPS and temp sensors (one on the ESC and one on the battery pack) sensors installed in a sensible way in my little Sebart Yak 30E.  I keep meaning to look-up the connectors, see if I can make a couple of extension leads - anyone know a source?

Sadly the fuel gauge doesn't work with petrol, only glow.  I didn't realise this when I bought the telemetry gear and even with glow fuel, it looks like a bit of a pain as, as I understand it, each flight you need to start with an empty tank and then fill the tank with everything switched-on in order for it to register correctly.  It's a shame because fuel level was a function I really wanted on my Z62 powered Typhoon :(

Just out of interest having bought the interface, I found the Rx's and Tx were both at the current version and the interface wasn't needed. Just something to consider if anyone hasn't yet bought the interface.

...but updates are fairly frequent.  However, if everything is working as you'd like it on one particular level of firmware then why worry about it?  The only exception might be if there's any sort of safety or range type upgrades.

Yes you need the sensor station to run any of the sensors, except receiver battery which is already built-in to the Optima RX's.

Crikey what a steaming pile. I don't know why you can't plug one telemetry item in to the RX like on jeti, graupner, multiplex etc. 
I had never imagined it would work like that..... 

Crikey what a steaming pile

I think that's a bit strong but it is a bit of a pavlova.  Another thing which is not immediately obvious is that there are a couple of different sensor stations, and I believe there will be more to come.  Currently there's the "blue" which is aimed at electric models and will accept the current sensors and then there's the "yellow" which is aimed at gas/glow models so beware if buying the current sensors and make sure you have the right sensor station.

I rather get the impression that Hitec set-out to develop a "system architecture" and are en-route to developing a Frankenstein's monster having discovered their initial architecture wasn't flexible enough to cover all the bases.  It must be a support nightmare for the retailers and distributor.  Having said all of that, what they have done works very well - it's just not as elegant as it might have been.

yeah it is getting out of control.

I'm not interested in sensor stations or other stations for doing this that and the other. I just want to plug a telemetry station in to my receiver like on any sane and rational system. 

It's clearly a stupid idea to have different sensor stations for different tasks. It just sounds like trying to be clever. Why not make a sensor station with a few universal sockets that any of the sensors can plug in to. Or just not have sensor stations at all like all the other brands.

It's barmy that you have to fit a sensor station to your model to fly one sensor. I suspect that the majority of models that are sensor equipped will only have one sensor anyway.

The comedy size and design (e.g. optima 7 - 3ft long with plugs both ends) is bad enough without extra stuff to install in your model.  If you are going to have the cases as big as they are then you would think direct connection to sensors would be possible.

I've found updating my system with that little box thingie (they seem to love those) is not that easy. It won't connect to my TX at all.  I am becoming a bit frustrated with that whole thing.

For iPhone/iPad/iPod Touch users, this is a handy app ...

http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/hts-iview/id456155532?mt=8

I have the app but alas I can't find a source for the data cable in the UK or Europe?

I also want to try the "HTS-Voice announcing system" which is currently only available in North America it seems.

http://www.hitecrcd.com/products/aircraft-radios-receivers-and-accesories/telemetry/hts-voice.html

I also want to try the "HTS-Voice announcing system" which is currently only available in North America it seems.

http://www.hitecrcd.com/products/aircraft-radios-receivers-and-accesories/telemetry/hts-voice.html

There's probably another little box round the back of the tx that isn't show in the picture.............

No, it plugs directly into the trainer socket .... just not available in the UK yet.

Good grief I'm totally bamboozled. Wasn't like this when i flew with my Macgregor Digimac 111 and guess what, i still flew all day on a Sunday. Maybe i'm a dinosaur but my question is WHY???. It's supposed to be a fun hobby 

Good grief I'm totally bamboozled. Wasn't like this when i flew with my Macgregor Digimac 111 and guess what, i still flew all day on a Sunday. Maybe i'm a dinosaur but my question is WHY???. It's supposed to be a fun hobby 

It still is, and you still can. Just, instead of endless arguments on RCMF, you will be able to say EXACTLY why you crashed your model....

I looked at the FrSky telemetry but for anything other than an analogue input you have to have a separate input box from them as well. I'm surprised Hitec went this route when their associate company use a bus system where extra sensors just plug into the next sensor and then direct into the Rx. Maybe the MK2 will be like this.

Hitec and Multiplex have the same owner, but they share nothing in technology or manufacturing - that's why they have two competely seperate, incompatible and proprietary 2.4GHz systems (which is barking, but rather proves the point).

From the sounds of it the Hitec sensors are just that - raw sensors, and all the interfacing and signal conditioning is done in the "sensor station", whereas others (eg multiplex) do the signal conditioning in the sensor module. The Hitec approach could make the sensors more compact and possibly cheaper. The alternative approach probably makes for a neater and more compact installation. Neither approach is wrong; they're just different.

PDR

hitec sensor stations are about £20 each, putting the price above the competition unless you want to install half a dozen temperature sensors. Plus there is more than one type of station, so that certain sensors only work with certain stations.

different types of sensor have different connectors rather than universal type. as it is not as servo plug, you would have to cut the wires and resolder it to shorten the lead.

Not only that you need, from what I can see, two cables coming from the RX to the sensor station as well!

No, it plugs directly into the trainer socket .... just not available in the UK yet.

HTS-Voice plugs into the Data Port of the Hitec AFHSS Spectra Module.

The HTS-Voice is not yet fully operational. Awaits an imminent HPP-22 Telemetry Control Center program update (to provide for user settings to the unit).
Some distributors are not releasing HTS-Voice until the update is available for immediate download.

All current Telemetry information is available under the Telemetry section of
Hitec USA Support Forum:
Aurora 9, AFHSS Spectra Modules, Optima Transceivers, Minima Receivers
 & Telemetry - FAQ & Undocumented Features
- Mixes, Setups, Tips.  {Individual Links often updated}

Alan T.
Alan's Hobby, Model & RC FAQ Web Links

The Hitec system does report signal strength (RSSI?) to the Tx doesn't it? I thought surely it must but can't find reference to it.

At the mo I'm seriously considering the Aurora now that the Jeti Tx looks like selling for more than I'm prepared to pay.

Brian

no it doesn't.
Somewhat strangely with the battery level telemetry if you actually disconnect the battery from the receiver you don't get any sounding.

Do you have an Aurora Satinet?

Yep

Why does it have that feature?

...well I was positive that if the RX battery became disconnected you did get a notification alarm but now you've made me doubt it so I'll have to go and check!

One thing I am a little disappointed about is the lack of ability to set audible alarms on the telemetry ... you cant, can you?

If the Rx battery becomes diconnected th Rx can't transmit the info., but the Tx may report loss of signal.

Tom

An alarm  sounds if the rx power supply goes below the threshold you set.

Don't know about the other telemetry. I was interested in the GPS, but since you needed another box and half a dozen wires I don't think it would fit in the models I wanted to use it in. I don't know if the GPS can function as a vario. Documentation on the whole telemetry system is limited to day the least. That A.T. bloke is the one helping people.

An alarm  sounds if the rx power supply goes below the threshold you set.

Don't know about the other telemetry. I was interested in the GPS, but since you needed another box and half a dozen wires I don't think it would fit in the models I wanted to use it in. I don't know if the GPS can function as a vario. Documentation on the whole telemetry system is limited to day the least. That A.T. bloke is the one helping people.

If the Rx is disconnected from the battery it wouldn't be able to transmit the low voltage alarm.

 Tom

If the Rx is disconnected fro the battery it wouldn't be able to transmit the low voltage alarm.

 Tom

of course, but seeing as the rx is a transceiver, the tx should be able to tell when it stops receiving a signal from the rx.

I guess it would be a bit annoying as the alarm would sound every time you turned the RX off.

of course, but seeing as the rx is a transceiver, the tx should be able to tell when it stops receiving a signal from the rx.

I guess it would be a bit annoying as the alarm would sound every time you turned the RX off.

It would be possible for the manufacturer to incorporate an alarm, but what use would it be? You couldn't do anything about it, unless you believe in the power of prayer

Tom

As said above, I can confirm that it doesn't report the loss of power. I am running Hitec and if so I would know every time I turn the model off lol, but I have heard the low battery alarm, infact saved a model of mine

Yep fair point.

On the subject of a vario, i believe one is planned but I suspect that will require a different interface?

Anyone heard anymore about the Vario, it was supposed to have been release Q3 last year. Mind you, if you can't get the voice box yet it isn't much use at the moment...

I don't see why the GPS can't work as a vario too. I think the Jeti is both.

I appreciate the difference between GPS telemetry and air pressure sensing but still.

Maybe you need a special 'height' (brown?) sensor station that only works with GPS and a vario. Neither of which will have the same plug on. Watch this space......

I think the problem with GPS is that from a height perspective it's not quite sensitive enough. I have a Garmin GPS cycle computer and they did two versions and the cheaper version didn't include the barometric altitude sensor, so I don't think a GPS would be sensitive enough to act as a vario as you really want to know the second you are in lift not a short while afterwards.

fair point.

of course, but seeing as the rx is a transceiver, the tx should be able to tell when it stops receiving a signal from the rx.  I guess it would be a bit annoying as the alarm would sound every time you turned the RX off.

AFHSS - Warning Beeps Aurora 9 & Spectra 2.4Ghz Module - Interpret & Manage the Independent Alarms.
extract:
"Battery Low Voltage Alarm
1. Voltage alarm may or may not sound on Aurora when RX/Power battery is disconnected.
This is because the telemetry cycles about 3 times/second. Sometimes when you are unplugging
the battery, it will sense the voltage drop and the warning will kick in, but sometimes it won't
because once you unplug the battery there is no signal going back to the TX.
This alarm is "hit and miss" due to the way the system works."

ex Hitec USA Support Forum Sticky:
Aurora 9, AFHSS Spectra Modules, Optima Transceivers, Minima Receivers
& Telemetry - FAQ & Undocumented Features
- Mixes, Setups, Tips.  {Individual Links often updated}

Alan T.
Alan's Hobby, Model & RC FAQ Web Links   

Hi,

Just for your info, the HTS_voice unit does spit out all the telemetry data, with a sad north American accent. I'm using it together with a BLUE sensor station. It will tell you the receiver or SPC voltage, (depending which one you are using), height, speed, voltage again but this time from the separate sensor, and then current, followed by the temperatures of the sensors (up to 4), if used.

It repeats this every 10 or 30 seconds depending on selection you made in the setup.. The firmware in the voice unit is certainly not finalised as it will not give you the receiver or SPC voltage unless a sensor station is plugged into the receiver. It also has some bugs with the GPS height, as on the transmitter, the height is shown correctly but the voice unit add's some random height to it.

i.e the Tx show 0 feet when the model is on the ground but the voice unit is telling you its at 61 feet for example.

Knowing Hitec's track record for firmware updates, I don't supposed it will get fixed much before next Christmas.

All in all a nice idea though as I personally like the facility of hearing the battery voltage going down as opposed to waiting for the alarm to sound especially on electric models.

regards all.

Hi,   Just for your info, the HTS_voice unit does spit out all the telemetry data, with a sad north American accent. I'm using it together with a BLUE sensor station. It will tell you the receiver or SPC voltage, (depending which one you are using), height, speed, voltage again but this time from the separate sensor, and then current, followed by the temperatures of the sensors (up to 4), if used.
It repeats this every 10 or 30 seconds depending on selection you made in the setup.. The firmware in the voice unit is certainly not finalised as it will not give you the receiver or SPC voltage unless a sensor station is plugged into the receiver. It also has some bugs with the GPS height, as on the transmitter, the height is shown correctly but the voice unit add's some random height to it.
i.e the Tx show 0 feet when the model is on the ground but the voice unit is telling you its at 61 feet for example. Knowing Hitec's track record for firmware updates, I don't supposed it will get fixed much before next Christmas.  All in all a nice idea though as I personally like the facility of hearing the battery voltage going down as opposed to waiting for the alarm to sound especially on electric models.
regards all.

Telemetry - HTS-Voice - Voice Announcing System.
Update 23Feb12:
"Note that Hitec USA has not released the Voice system to the market
but plan to start shipping them shortly as the new V1.12 software is now complete.
. finally!  Here's a couple screen shots: - Mike".

(V1.12 relates to the HPP-22, not the A9)

Alan T.
Alan's Hobby, Model & RC FAQ Web Links

It still is, and you still can. Just, instead of endless arguments on RCMF, you will be able to say EXACTLY why you crashed your model....

99.9% of the time it's pilot error.  Amazing how the transmitter manufacturers convince us we need telemetry to tell us that !  Perhaps it helps to soften the blow to our pride and vanity 

Expensive pillow though

iPhone app and accessory just announced in the USA 

===============================================
Press Release: 2/24/2012

Hitec is proud to introduce the latest addition to our suite of telemetry products, the HTS-iView.
HTS-iView, telemetry interface for use with Apple® products.

Our HTS-iView seamlessly integrates advancements in portable computing with the world of radio control, bringing real-time telemetry data to your Apple® devices such as the iTouch, iPhone and iPad. With the applicable onboard sensors and airborne sensor station, the iView can display your model's GPS-based altitude, location, distance and speed data, four temperature and two RPM readings, as well as remaining fuel level, current draw, voltage, wattage and receiver battery levels. Whether you are an enthusiastic pilot demanding comprehensive feedback during flight or an everyday sport flier looking for that added information, the HTS-iView puts the world of telemetry at your fingertips.

Take advantage of the ever-changing world of communication technology with the latest from Hitec!

Features:
• General and Detailed Telemetry Data Display
• GPS-Based Information: Speed/Altitude/Distance/Longitude/Latitude • Four Temperature Data
• Two RPM Readings
• Fuel Gauge Information
• Battery Current Draw
• Battery Voltage Level
• Data Save and Replay Function
• Programmable Audible Warning Settings
• Google Maps GPS Link
• HTS-Voice Synchronization Available (Sold Separately)

Stock#: 55862


Go to: www.hitecrcd.com for more info.

Estimated Street Price: $49.99

I've had the iPhone app for some time but it looks like that have at long last released the cable that it needs in order to work!

hope the android app is not far behind :(

Next thing I'll need is some kind of headgear which allows me to use the iPhone as a head-up display!