Topic: New batt first cycle

Just bought a new 6v 3800mah nihm from overlander. It says I should cycle it the first time? Given I don't have any battery monitoring conditioning gear yet what do I need to do? Thanks!

What charger do you plan to use? Your normal trickle charger will be no good as the current will be too low.

What charger do you plan to use? Your normal trickle charger will be no good as the current will be too low.

I was intending to use my tx charger. It says first charge must be slow charge. Do I need to discharge it first?

Invest £25 or so in a charger / discharger such as the Turnigy Accucell 6, well worth the cash.

Decent chargers are so cheap now, my normal Tx/Rx charger is consigned to a drawer.

Invest £25 or so in a charger / discharger such as the Turnigy Accucell 6, well worth the cash.

Seconded, that's a great charger. If you're on a really tight budget and only using AA sized nimh packs then the Vapextech 'wallwart' is good too, but for everything else the Accucell 6 handles it.

It does need a 12V input, you could use an old PC power supply with the appropriate pins hacked, or what I do is have an old car battery under the bench on a permanent Aldi trickle charger.

Yes, I need a decent charger. Does the turnigy do everything I need? Where can u get it? I can afford 25 quid plus postage.

Yes, I need a decent charger. Does the turnigy do everything I need? Where can u get it? I can afford 25 quid plus postage.

It will do all the common battery types;

Lead acid
Nicad
NiMH
Lipo
LiIon
LiFe

All the lithium types use the balance leads - it handles 2-6S (1S doesn't need balancing!) and up to 5A charging current.

It can do cycling,reduce to a storage charge and slow balance charging as well as the normal charge.

I got mine from nilesinstall on EBay.

I was reading about this charger. Seems pretty complicated and I'm completely unfamiliar with any sort of battery care.

Can anyone spell it out what I need to do with my new battery? Initially and over the life of the battery? What does the accucell give me that I won't get if I don't buy one?

I'm not interested in lipos just standard batteries at tje
Moment for gliders.

Thanks!
Jimbo.

I was reading about this charger. Seems pretty complicated and I'm completely unfamiliar with any sort of battery care.

Can anyone spell it out what I need to do with my new battery? Initially and over the life of the battery? What does the accucell give me that I won't get if I don't buy one?

I'm not interested in lipos just standard batteries at tje
Moment for gliders.

Thanks!
Jimbo.

TBH almost all the batteries I use are standard NiMH packs too.

That charger is very capable, but not necessarily complicated. Most times all I do is connect the battery, press start, select the charge current (which is usually 1.6A for a 1600mAh battery, 2.1A for a 2100mAh battery etc) then press start again to charge. That's it, it stops when it's done and tells you how much power it put in.

Other than that, I do a very occasional run with several discharge/charge cycles to check a pack is OK.

Or on a new non-Instant type battery I'll do a first charge by cycling it three times at half the usual current.

I'm sure you'll hear many different ways to look after your batteries though. It's mostly Black Magic and guesswork.

Oh yes, what it gives you is the correct 0.5C-1C charging rate for NiMHs. It also gives you the charge that was put into the pack, which I just use as an indicator - if I know I didn't fly it much but it still takes a lot to recharge it, then there's probably something binding so the servos are having to work harder. Or if it's a top-up charge before going out, it will show if the pack has lost a lot more than usual through leakage in a short time.

If you really don't want the complexity, you could use the VapexTech charger instead, it will do a good job. But I thought you started by saying you had a 3800mAh pack, which sounded more like a flight battery than a glider rx pack?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/New-RC-iMAX-B6-Lipo-NiMH-Battery-Balance-Charger-938-/110672083572?pt=Radio_Control_Parts_Accessories&hash=item19c491fa74#ht_2678wt_1074

I've got one of these and it works great. Note the price! 

Ok here's what I have. I have 2 of the standard Futaba chargers. And various battery packs. My 3800mah is the new batt. This is for a big 5m glider with lots of digital servos.

Anyway to date I've just been charging the batteries until the light goes to green for the RX. On the tx there is no light and it stays red and I usually leave it overnight.

Looks like tje chargers are rated at 4.7-8.4v 600mah. I got these when I bought my 8FG and 6EX Futaba radios.

Do I need a new charger, what benefits will I get? Thanks all, Jimbo.

I also have this checker. As you can see the new battery already registers 6.2v and I haven't touched it.

Aside from the ability to check battery voltages and capacity, cycle batteries, balance cells etc, you can charge batteries a lot more quickly. And get more planes in the air.

I think what overlander want you to do is a constant charge at a low current. Most likely to balance the cells in the pack. A charger that has voltage detect cut off won't do that. Types other than nimh obvoiusly have balance leads. Don't know why balancing of nimh has never come in.

Btw with a really big battery, you might find your wall charger doesn't go green because the current is not enough to cause a peak.

automatic Nimh chargers keep charging until the voltage goes stops increasing and starts to fall off. That is the peak - I.e a peak detect charger.

Dumb chargers (like overlander wants you to use) charge at a constant rate until you turn it off.

TBH almost all the batteries I use are standard NiMH packs too.

That charger is very capable, but not necessarily complicated. Most times all I do is connect the battery, press start, select the charge current (which is usually 1.6A for a 1600mAh battery, 2.1A for a 2100mAh battery etc) then press start again to charge. That's it, it stops when it's done and tells you how much power it put in.

Other than that, I do a very occasional run with several discharge/charge cycles to check a pack is OK.

Or on a new non-Instant type battery I'll do a first charge by cycling it three times at half the usual current.

So can my charger I have Do the first cycle? Or do I need to do it lower current? Do I discharge it first? Or can I fly it straight away?

It appears to be charged anyway so what do I do!

Just charge it on the 600mA charger for about 7 hours or until the green light comes on & use it.

6.2v for a sub c 5 cell pack is actually fairly low.

Watch out. Your tester thinks that 5 cell pack is 4 cells, hence the 99%. The voltage will be accurate though.
6.2v is right for a fully charged 4 cell, but not 5.

Watch out. Your tester thinks that 5 cell pack is 4 cells, hence the 99%. The voltage will be accurate though.
6.2v is right for a fully charged 4 cell, but not 5.

What volts should it be?

6.2 x 5 / 4

Actually that's while it's on the charger. 6.9v is about right for fully charged away from the charger. Or
thereabouts.

Just charge it on the 600mA charger for about 7 hours or until the green light comes on & use it.

I agree, 600mA on a pack that size isn't enough to damage it even if you leave it on for days... that first charge is better done on a 'dumb' charger, because many new cells are shipped with the internal chemical mixture in a brand new just-mixed state. The first charge is known as a 'forming charge' because it causes the electronic properties of the mix to sort itself out nicely - if you blat it with a very high current you can get it not forming evenly, which will lead to reduced capacity and a higher internal resistance, which means the cell cannot deliver as much current. Don't ask me what actually happens inside the mix in a chemical sense, I hated chemistry at school

If you intend to fly big expensive gliders using big expensive battery packs then spending £25 on a charger that can give you confidence in them doesn't seem like too bad a deal...

I don't know about the forming charge.
I think the packs are just made from cells taken out of a "box" which may or may not be in the same state of charge.

I agree, 600mA on a pack that size isn't enough to damage it even if you leave it on for days... that first charge is better done on a 'dumb' charger, because many new cells are shipped with the internal chemical mixture in a brand new just-mixed state. The first charge is known as a 'forming charge' because it causes the electronic properties of the mix to sort itself out nicely - if you blat it with a very high current you can get it not forming evenly, which will lead to reduced capacity and a higher internal resistance, which means the cell cannot deliver as much current. Don't ask me what actually happens inside the mix in a chemical sense, I hated chemistry at school

If you intend to fly big expensive gliders using big expensive battery packs then spending £25 on a charger that can give you confidence in them doesn't seem like too bad a deal...

Thanks.
Those turnigys are 42 us . Plus ext power supply. So about 40 quid plus postage.
I want to know if I'm getting any better performance out of my battery before I fork out 50 quid for something I potentially don't need. Do I need this charger for the first 'charge' so I can put through a lower current?
What would be the voltage level on a 6v pack, that would be the equivalent of 'batt low' do not fly?

what do the overlander instructions say?
When I have bought overlander packs it has said to form the pack on a dumb charge, not on a peak detect charger.


There are many many chargers our there that can do the job.
If you want to dump charge it just buy some cheapo old fashioned wall wart and leave it for a few days.

A fast charger such as the Accucell has several advantages over wall warts. Ever got up and find the weather is perfect but you have not got a model charged - no prob, you can charge on the way to the field or even once you have got there.

The charger tells you what you put into the pack after each flying session so you can see how much power you use and if its much different to normal check things over to find out why.

Every couple of months or so you can do a charge discharge cycle to make sure the battery is still performing well.

Etc Etc.

A fast charger such as the Accucell has several advantages over wall warts. Ever got up and find the weather is perfect but you have not got a model charged - no prob, you can charge on the way to the field or even when you get there.

The charger tells you what you put into the pack after each flying session so you can see how much power you use and if its much different to normal check thongs over to find out why.

Every couple of months or so you can do a charge discharge cycle to make sure the battery is still performing well.

Etc Etc.

yep, aside from all the other features, simple fast charging is the big advantage. you can get a plane ready to fly in the time it take to get ready to go out usually.

So the difference is that the peak detect charger will switch of charging at a certain voltage. Dumb charger keeps blasting.
There is no difference in battery performance if I charge at 600 rather than 300.
Unfortunately no instructions. Think I chucked when clearing out by mistake. Doh.

The dumb charger will severely shorten the life of the battery. A peak charger will stop when the battery is at full capacity & if you charge via the heavy leads you will be able to charge from flat in about 20 minutes.

So the difference is that the peak detect charger will switch of charging at a certain voltage. Dumb charger keeps blasting.
There is no difference in battery performance if I charge at 600 rather than 300.
Unfortunately no instructions. Think I chucked when clearing out by mistake. Doh.

You will get a better capacity and life from NiMH packs if you charge at 0.5-1.0C, i.e. 1.9 to 3.8A for your 3800mAh pack. Charging at too low a rate might cause the charger not to peak detect and hence overcharge them. It also charges much faster than a 600mA dumb charger, which matters when you are giving three or four models and a tx a quick top-up before heading out. Or from a cigarette lighter plug at the slope so you can carry on flying!


It's hardly £50 for an Accucel 6 though:

http://search.ebay.co.uk/130424586575

His compatible psu is another 35 quid. That takes it to 60 plus postage. :(

If this is the one you need.

http://item.mobileweb.ebay.co.uk/viewitem?itemId=130591890981&index=14&nav=SEARCH&nid=04486172807

His compatible psi is another 35 quid. That takes it to 60 plus postage. :(

Oh, you want it mains powered.

Have you got an old 12V battery and a car charger? That's what I use.

Oh, you want it mains powered.

Have you got an old 12V battery and a car charger? That's what I use.

No unfortunately not.

http://item.mobileweb.ebay.co.uk/viewitem?itemId=130591890981&index=14&nav=SEARCH&nid=04486172807

I just use a 12 volt sealed battery with its own wall wart charger and use that as a power supply. Its handy because I can then charge on my way to the field.

No unfortunately not.

If you're really fussed about the cost and can't find a car battery anywhere, this is the best wall wart charger to get. Still a lot slower but at least it will stop when needed and also it's cheap.

http://vapextech.co.uk/acatalog/copy_of_High_Power_Model_Control_Batteries.html#a67

or you could get a decent charger with a 240v power input. there are plenty about.
You don't need the high charging capability of some chargers (more than 50w) for glider power packs.

e.g
http://www.t9hobbysport.com/item.asp?catid=98&subcatid=201&prodid=775
http://robotbirds.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=9_94&products_id=4722

or you could get a decent charger with a 240v power input. there are plenty about.
You don't need the high charging capability of some chargers (more than 50w) for glider power packs.

e.g
http://www.t9hobbysport.com/item.asp?catid=98&subcatid=201&prodid=775
http://robotbirds.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=9_94&products_id=4722
Thx

I don't know if you have the same types of cooler chests (runs off the car battery) over there  but I found a replacement mains  power supply for them that supplies 12V at 7 amps for a reasonable price.  Might look into that in the camping supplies.

Thanks. Plenty of options if I want to spend 60 quid or so. Will put one on my Christmas list... Not long now.