Topic: It's my birthday!

Zim told me sometime ago he stocked the AMD's, not sure if Tony does.

Metal gears on the flaps just in case you catch them on a landing, but you don't need metal on the ailerons, and the fact that plastic gears tend to have less play means there will be less slop on the ailerons. Metal gears for the ele because the AMT puts quite a bit of stress on the ele servo's gears when landing, I've stripped 2 sets now on the HS65HB's due to landings, which didn't damage the plane BTW, was just a bit of a heavier than I would like tail slap.

It depends on what you want to spend, SD150's on ail would save @ £13, and they are a tight gear train too,. Seem fine on the Bird 60 so far.....

3x AMD's, 3x SCD's  (£141)
3x AMD's, 2x SD150's and a HS65HB or (£132)
3x AMD's, 3x HS65HB's. (£114)
2x AMD's, 3x HS65HB's, HS65MG (ele) (£105).
3x HS65MG, 3x HS65HB (<£90)

Your choice mate......

Don't forget that HS gear sets are pretty much available from most places too (except for earlier this year when everyone was out of stock  ). I'm sure you can order the Atlas gear sets but I wouldn't know for sure.

Zim told me sometime ago he stocked the AMD's, not sure if Tony does.

Metal gears on the flaps just in case you catch them on a landing, but you don't need metal on the ailerons, and the fact that plastic gears tend to have less play means there will be less slop on the ailerons. Metal gears for the ele because the AMT puts quite a bit of stress on the ele servo's gears when landing, I've stripped 2 sets now on the HS65HB's due to landings, which didn't damage the plane BTW, was just a bit of a heavier than I would like tail slap.

It depends on what you want to spend, SD150's on ail would save @ £13, and they are a tight gear train too,. Seem fine on the Bird 60 so far.....

3x AMD's, 3x SCD's  (£141)
3x AMD's, 2x SD150's and a HS65HB or (£132)
3x AMD's, 3x HS65HB's. (£114)
2x AMD's, 3x HS65HB's, HS65MG (ele) (£105).
3x HS65MG, 3x HS65HB (<£90)

Your choice mate......

Don't forget that HS gear sets are pretty much available from most places too (except for earlier this year when everyone was out of stock  ). I'm sure you can order the Atlas gear sets but I wouldn't know for sure.

Thanks for putting so much effort into it... I'd just put 2AMDs, 2SCDs, an HS65HB and an HS65MG into a cart at robotbirds and winced at the total...

It took a bit of a think to see where you got '3xAMD' etc from... got it now though. Just use a '65 as the fourth one in the wing, right 

Still shopping around. I'll drop Tony a line and see what he can do...

STILL waiting for my SCDs from Ming at Windrider....

It took a bit of a think to see where you got '3xAMD' etc from... got it now though. Just use a '65 as the fourth one in the wing, right 

Er...not sure I've got what you mean?

2x AMD for the flaps, 1 AMD for ele, SCD's ail and rudder, or HS65HB aileron and rudder, or SD150's aileron and a HS on rudder

Or the cheap option being HS65MG's flaps and ele, HB's aileron and rudder.

As long as you go MG on flaps and ele, 2 servo's of the same on ailerons and whatever you fancy for the rudder you'll be fine. A HXT900 would do for the rudder IMO, but I wouldn't use 1 personally.

It's nice to go top notch servo's in a plane, but as you said, it soon adds up (to another airframe).

Servo leads and MPX connectors are cheapest from Giant Cod BTW, they do some nice twisted wire which is good for the loom. 

Er...not sure I've got what you mean?

As long as you go MG on flaps and ele, 2 servo's of the same on ailerons and whatever you fancy for the rudder you'll be fine. A HXT900 would do for the rudder IMO, but I wouldn't use 1 personally.

Servo leads and MPX connectors are cheapest from Giant Cod BTW, they do some nice twisted wire which is good for the loom. 

I was just joking about three of one type and one of another in the wing... honest!

...and I got the wiring looms from olerc, with MPX greenies already attached. It only added $20 to the order and saved a fair bit of work. If I had a decent crimper I would have done it myself, but I haven't hunted one down yet.

I bounced an email off Tony Fu last night. He's keen on the MKS6100 as well as the ds09... especially as a fast servo on the elevator. I don't really like the idea of two different servos in the fuse but I can understand the need for the best on the elevator and cheap'n'cheerful on the rudder.

So:

Flaps:         metal geared, moderately quick,<10mm                         (ds09amd, mks6100)
Ailerons:     quick and accurate, can be plastic <10mm                    (mks6100, ds09scd)
Elevator:     metal, quick and accurate, can be a bit thicker               (mks6100, ds11amd)
Rudder:      medium to slow speed, can be plastic, can be thicker    (hs65hb)

I'll decide one day soon

what's the problem with having 2 different servos in the fuse?
I think the only model AMT model I have had with the same servo on the elevator and the rudder is my typhoon.
It's all about the elevator. The rudder is far less important. You don't need much power on the rudder anyway, as it is a small surface that doesn't deflect that much (say compared to a flap).

what's the problem with having 2 different servos in the fuse?
I think the only model AMT model I have had with the same servo on the elevator and the rudder is my typhoon.
It's all about the elevator. The rudder is far less important. You don't need much power on the rudder anyway, as it is a small surface that doesn't deflect that much (say compared to a flap).

Agreed. On a big model ir scalie though you need a big servo since they usually have a big rudder, but on a little mouldie where you're unlikely to use the rudder much, then small would be ok.

well on a big scale glider you likely to be using 20mm servos, so there is probably not a problem!
Elevator = trim = important.

Sorry Yoyo, wasn't being awkward etc, I posted late and prob didn't realise your sense of humor (after part of  the kitchen ceiling fell through, I didn't have one last night )

BTW, I've never crimped wires for a loom, always soldered. I'm not sure crimping would do the job?

I thought the DS11 was larger than it actually is (just checked specs) but that'd be a good alternative for a couple of quid more.

I think it's normal for you (and me) to consider 2 servo's of the same make and spec to go in the fuse, but as Tom says, it doesn't matter on seperate ele and rudder (V tail the exception)

MKS a good option too, tough choice but they'll all be fine IMO

BTW, I've never crimped wires for a loom, always soldered. I'm not sure crimping would do the job?

I thought the DS11 was larger than it actually is (just checked specs) but that'd be a good alternative for a couple of quid more.

I think it's normal for you (and me) to consider 2 servo's of the same make and spec to go in the fuse, but as Tom says, it doesn't matter on seperate ele and rudder (V tail the exception)

MKS a good option too, tough choice but they'll all be fine IMO

Servo plugs are designed to be crimped, not soldered. Solder would still work, though.

The ds11 is basically a ds09 but 11mm thick instead of 9mm, with correspondingly bigger and tougher gears. And you're right about wanting matching servos in the fuse only for neatness - I've got enough secondhand gliders kitted out from my bits box, I wanted this one to be pretty! Probably won't though.

Hope your ceiling gets sorted out - and more importantly whatever made it collapse on the first place!

Ahh...misunderstanding on the crimper, I was refering to the MPX ends being soldered, not the servo plugs themselves. I've never done that either, the leads I get have the servo plugs on. I think I paid under £2 for 5 leads about 600mm long last time, I bought a load of 100mm, 300mm etc in both Futaba and JR plugs, along with MPX greenies and heatshrink. Anyway, you're sorted....

Ahh...misunderstanding on the crimper, I was refering to the MPX ends being soldered, not the servo plugs themselves. I've never done that either, the leads I get have the servo plugs on. I think I paid under £2 for 5 leads about 600mm long last time, I bought a load of 100mm, 300mm etc in both Futaba and JR plugs, along with MPX greenies and heatshrink. Anyway, you're sorted....

Aha. We are on the same page after all, that's what I usually do too.

I do have some uncrimped servo plugs though - sometimes you can't get to the other end of the wires easily and don't want a mid-wire join.

Incidentally last time I was going to do that was to repair the connector on the battery that came out of my FFish after the crash - it got mangled.

I gave it three cycles first to make sure the battery was OK - 2100mAh Instants gave me 750, 940, 530mAh cycles to 'full charge'. So I binned it!

Wise move re:battery, I get over paranoid about them and replace if I've got doubts now, just not worth the risk.

Ceiling's an insurance job so stress levels dropped. 

Wise move re:battery, I get over paranoid about them and replace if I've got doubts now, just not worth the risk.

Ceiling's an insurance job so stress levels dropped. 

Well, just to round off the servo choice bit... after working out lots of comparisons and ranking them in order, I've ended up going for MKS ds6100s for all of the wing servos and the elevator, with an HS65HB (plastic geared) on the rudder.

Using all Hyperion or all MKS (hs65hb always on the rudder) worked out very similar pricewise. All HS65s (a mix of metal and plastic) was cheapest and I'm sure would be adequate, but I showed the list to SWMBO and she told me to go for the 6100s as she 'couldn't think of many other things for Christmas for me anyway'.

I've just got to find someone to sell them to me now.. I'm getting a price and stock level off Tony Fu, but I think he's off at the BARCS show this weekend. I also note T9 only shows two 6100s in stock, and I think they're at BARCS too. Pity it's not closer.

Oh, and I thought I might give Tony Fu's bearing kit things a try as well, since I'm starting from scratch with a new mouldie for the first time.

There is a thread on barcs about using epp instead of a bearing kit. Sounds like it could work and give you 6 a servo to either spend on beer or better servos.

If you get the bearing kits be sure you have the space to use them. If the rod runs too close to the edge of the servo bay, you'll need to cut the bottom wing skin to be able to get access to tighten or unscrew the 'bolt'. I coudn't use them on the Willow as by the time I'd cut the wing skin, the servo covers wouldn't have covered the cut out, and I didn't want the cut out hole visible.

If you get the bearing kits be sure you have the space to use them. If the rod runs too close to the edge of the servo bay, you'll need to cut the bottom wing skin to be able to get access to tighten or unscrew the 'bolt'. I coudn't use them on the Willow as by the time I'd cut the wing skin, the servo covers wouldn't have covered the cut out, and I didn't want the cut out hole visible.

I think the later kits with flats next to the arm make that easier. Hopefully.

Tony has the 6100s in stock and has come up with a tempting bundle deal so I think I'll probably be going with him on this one.

I have seen the EPP alternative but I can't see how that won't wear quite quickly. Isn't it more of an alternative way of bridging the skins than of supporting the output shaft?

I'm not sure how these kits work.
But going from first principles, the ideal is to keep servo arm anchored. So the variables I suspect that move the servo arm are a) skin flex b) spindle flex.
So the ideal would be to support the output gear with a solid metal plate connected to both skins with a circular hole in the middle for the gear to go through. Minimum slop with wing vibration. but I suspect this means that the more rigid the connection to tje servos the more often you strip gears.
Personally I'd be happy with anchoring to both skins as I don't think that slop in the servo spindle us going to affect the linkage enough to be noticible.
Are you going to DS img this SB at 200mph? If not then consider the landing sites and longevity on your servos. Swings and roundabouts.

Personally I'd be happy with anchoring to both skins as I don't think that slop in the servo spindle us going to affect the linkage enough to be noticible.

I see what you're saying, but it seems to me that the slop that develops in most servos over time is probably down to rotational play and also to side-to-side play, mostly down to impacts from dubious landings.

No bit of engineering that is expected to receive side loads is only supported on one side, that's just asking for trouble. These are expensive servos (for me) so why not look after them from day one?

I wasn't aware that was your aim, to prolong life of the servos. Someone who knows this better than me can answer better. But to me if you anchor it twice, you are reducing slop, and making it more rigid, which will reduce the life of the servo gears. The only solution is a perfect landing every time...

I wasn't aware that was your aim, to prolong life of the servos. Someone who knows this better than me can answer better. But to me if you anchor it twice, you are reducing slop, and making it more rigid, which will reduce the life of the servo gears. The only solution is a perfect landing every time...

No, mounting just the servo more rigidly will do that, as any impact will have to be carried sideways on the shaft, to be transmitted to the wing skins via the gearbox and servo case.

With the bearings at least a proportion of that force goes direct to the wing skins.

The only alternative is to mount the servos in a compliant manner, maybe onto a foam or rubber mount, so any force is carried easily through and absorbed by the mount. But that way you get really sloppy linkages and lots of uncommanded surface movement.

I'll stick with this route, I think.

I have only ever epoxied to Wing skins and my linkages are slop free apart from some small Head slop on the servo. I can't see whether bearings would get rid of that since the slop is in the servo. Someone could answer that.

I have only ever epoxied to Wing skins and my linkages are slop free apart from some small Head slop on the servo. I can't see whether bearings would get rid of that since the slop is in the servo. Someone could answer that.

Well, the bearing is adding support to the head bearing, so i'd expect it to reduce wear there.

Nobody is saying you can't have a setup without them, after all most planes will just have a servo stuck to one skin and they fly just fine. Tying to both skins and adding the external bearing is all about reducing slop and wear, as well as adding some strength.

I have only ever epoxied to Wing skins and my linkages are slop free apart from some small Head slop on the servo. I can't see whether bearings would get rid of that since the slop is in the servo. Someone could answer that.

Jimbo...the epp method I use/described on BARCS is what I use to minimise soft slop(the flexing of the skins)by tying both surfaces together.It wont help with a sloppy head on a servo.

My whole point i was trying to make is that If you(not you,but a generic you) go cheap on your servos..say £20 or so...then  try  to claw back performance and help the servo do a better job by buying  a bearing kit and maybee a servo mounting frame...this adds £10 per servo, you might as well buy a servo with a double bearing supported head in the first place(s3150) and use the epp method to tie the skins for soft slop.The better servo will last longer, wear less as its better supported and virtually cost the same anyway....if you see what i mean.

After being in this modelling game for a while now I've learned two important lessons
1) don't scrimp on batteries (nosed in the psycho last time)
2) get the best servos you can afford (first psycho crash the previous time with a non centring servo causing drift while inverted on low pass along slope front) (what Chris T is saying).

If I bought more expensive servos there would be no head slop, but I'm happy with the performance I'm getting with just a bonding to a single skin 4 now.  I have a lot more headroom in my flying ability before I'd notice the difference with bearing kits I think.
Not to say I would enjoy messing about with an install off one tho.

Having Finally got my servos from Ming at Windrider (DS09 SCD's), I've found that only 3 out of 4 are working, well there's £23 up the spout....
So I'll get 2 MKS6100's from Mr Fu instead and stick them on the flaps...

Having Finally got my servos from Ming at Windrider (DS09 SCD's), I've found that only 3 out of 4 are working, well there's £23 up the spout....
So I'll get 2 MKS6100's from Mr Fu instead and stick them on the flaps...

Don't feel too badly, one of the six 6100s I got from Tony was a lot noisier than the others too, so that's on it's way back as soon as the Post Office opens... he instantly offered to send another even before he got the duff one back though, can't fault that for service!

The 'duff one' still seems to work perfectly, it's just that when you have six on a servo tester, an odd one out really shows up. The others are absolutely identical.

Nice one. What tester are you using?

Nice one. What tester are you using?

It only does four at a time, it's the Turnigy one from Hobbyking. It does up to 2S LiPo and high speed digis.

But I think Phil G's homebrew one sounds better in terms of realistically exercising the servos...

Having Finally got my servos from Ming at Windrider (DS09 SCD's), I've found that only 3 out of 4 are working, well there's £23 up the spout....
So I'll get 2 MKS6100's from Mr Fu instead and stick them on the flaps...

Get in touch with Ming, he always seems to come across decent on RCGroups.