Topic: What's the perfect hangar?

seems cool. The carbon  pushrod will wear though (size of hole) and might break. hope you get spares.  Tempted by getting one, but you can't have them all..........

Who knows. Guess we'll find out in due course. The Habe's are pretty smart engineering types though, so I'm confident that they will have thought through the obvious issues. Anyway, as you say Tom, there's no Rotmilan in my immediate future, so it's all conjecture!

Cheers for the vid, Tony - v interesting. Easy listening on a Sunday too!

Z

I do like the Habe solutions to stuff.
The way the servo tray and ballast tube is done on the extreme is so very cool, and looks that way on the Rotmilan.
What sort of prices are the F3B Rotmilan then ?
Are they the same sort of dosh as the Arsen, Stinger or Strega ?

Jon

well they haven't thought that 900g of ballast is not enough, in fairness!
Strange oversight given how obvious it is. And that it wasn't enough on Extremes either.

John the rotmilan f3b is the same price IIRC. the fuse and tail are a bit lighter, wing is the same. I guess it's no problem to put some bars in the joiner to bring the ballast up to something better.   

Rotmilan €1290, see aviogate website

https://plus.google.com/photos/108261435497421048134/albums/5638123957476776945/5638124148022162626?banner=pwa

Really?

   Yeah. Unless I'm missing something?
 It might look shiny and fancy, but look at all the pivot points etc, it's the same as normal.

Yes I believe it is - I've not seen one in person, but a pal who has one describes it like a crankshaft from a little single cylinder engine. The rod that takes the pushrod in the surface seems to drive the entire span of the surface, which seem a pretty cool idea of minimising surface twist. The full slideshow is here...

http://planet-soaring.blogspot.com/2011/08/rotmilan-build-log.html

  I think the long rod is just the tool for inserting and removing the small bit of piano wire that goes through the carbon pushrod. well thats what i understood watching a servo replacment at the welsh open. cant see how 3 meters of 22 gauge metal wire along a trailing edge could be a step forward in design. think the small piece of wire had some silicone tube to hold it tight. Only had a brief hold of a wing, the owner had made his own pushrods and used normal servo arms as he was shocked at the price of the optional alloy pieces.

Who knows. Guess we'll find out in due course. The Habe's are pretty smart engineering types though, so I'm confident that they will have thought through the obvious issues. Anyway, as you say Tom, there's no Rotmilan in my immediate future, so it's all conjecture!

Cheers for the vid, Tony - v interesting. Easy listening on a Sunday too!

I guess Pierre will find out about the robustness pretty soon if he keeps landing with the flaps down like in the final few seconds of the video...

Having come to the sport recently I've always thought something better could be done for short throw high-torque applications like mouldie ailerons, better than standard servo horns and ground out clevises anyway.

I wouldn't call a couple of kgs a high torque application.
Flaps take the biggest load on crow or on launch from a winch.

I wouldn't call a couple of kgs a high torque application.
Flaps take the biggest load on crow or on launch from a winch.

When you're talking the short horn lengths and travels in use at both ends (5-7mm?) the torque is pretty high. Or maybe it's just the allowable play that gets really hard to deal with in that situation.

Flaps do take a big load but they can also be arranged to have a decent mechanical advantage at the highest load points (i.e. the pushrod in a nearly straight line with the horn) so that the forces are transmitted straight to the axle rather than as twist.

  I think the long rod is just the tool for inserting and removing the small bit of piano wire that goes through the carbon pushrod. well thats what i understood watching a servo replacment at the welsh open. cant see how 3 meters of 22 gauge metal wire along a trailing edge could be a step forward in design. think the small piece of wire had some silicone tube to hold it tight. Only had a brief hold of a wing, the owner had made his own pushrods and used normal servo arms as he was shocked at the price of the optional alloy pieces.

Oh I see - makes sense that the long bit is a tool. I understand that geometrically it is similar to a regular linkage, but I think there are enough differences and advantages in the concept to warrant trying it out. Wider bearing surfaces, stiffer pushrods, no flex in clevis pin etc. I'm prepared to accept that the Habe's didn't do this for no good reason given that they have been designing succesful F3x aircraft for a generation. Still I suppose everyone makes their own choices 

As for the price - it's one of the really unfortunate things about small machined parts in small size batches - they are usually prohibitively expensive  but again, I suppose folks make their own choices.

Z

its nothing new either, it was tried out 2 to 3 years back on a F3X model (cant remember what) exactly the same but using G10 pushrods and the flap servos slid into pockets in the root of the wings so no servo covers either. Poss it was another of Habes models ? or maybe he copied the idea?

Actually it was the 2m Espadita from Muller. Rather different idea I thought although admittedly the servo head did look similar. But then I suppose as something gets optimised it's likely be homogenise to a degree, as F3x models have themselves.

But I don't mind if you don't care for it, Adam. I think it looks a pretty elegant solution, not reinventing things that don't need reinventing, but optimising certain areas. As Yoyo has said, ground out clevises aren't exactly the most optimised solution! But we can agree to disagree can't we? 

Z

never said i dont care for it, think its great.

  Heres the other, its exactly the same apart from these actually have a bearing around the alloy servo arm (crank) to eleminate end play. so even better than the rotmilan's.
http://static.rcgroups.net/forums/attachments/6/2/6/3/3/a3406040-146-FlapServosInstalled.jpg

Marvellous!  For the foreseeable I'm keeping it simple, so unlikely to be RDSing, or RDHing - but I always find it enjoyable to see new advances and understand how they work.

Speaking of new things - rather like the name of the new "Radical" - the Dopamine! Super looking model too... but maybe more B than F... Go on John!

Z

LOL and look at D80, they only run M2 clevis / ball links when others are ruining M3. but strangely enough its not a problem. Solid as a solid thing.

LOL and look at D80, they only run M2 clevis / ball links when others are ruining M3. but strangely enough its not a problem. Solid as a solid thing.

You're dead right! I think as that shows the key things are good geometry, quality servos, zero skin flex and zero pin float in the clevis. But I think the F3 guys are trying to internalise everything, which brings another set of challenges.

Z

Zimmey, you dont know how tempted I have been with the radical, again its funny how no one flys them here in the UK other the Ken Woodhouse.
Chalster and Woodhouse are both flying Targets, and they seem to be within a knats whatsit of each other in terms of performance.
But what ever model I buy wont help cos, Steve could fly a dog turd and still win.
For now I will focus on my many Baudis products.

As I see it for F3B, you need fairly light weight (Around 2kgs) fairly hefty ballast capability and slippery as fook, with ridged wings.
F3F models would be too heavy for the light days to thermal and launch well.
Thats where I love the lift at (Was 1.9Kg's), would launch well, thermal on nothing but still have a decent turn of speed due to its slipperyness.
If there was a wee bit of wind for thermal task, I could always ballast it up to help it move around the sky a little bit and come back home after going down wind.

Going back to hangar contents, I have to say that after watching Joel West have loads of fun with his Pike Perfect at a comp in wales years ago when it was sunny but still, I've had a hankering after that sort of model. 3.5m mouldies are pricey buggers though. Hoping my leccy Strega will approximate it. With workload at mo, I rather fancy the idea of a "lie back in the grass and float about" kind of flying experience, although clearly it will have to wait until summer as at the moment it's more of a "lay back in the mud" kind of deal!

Z

 I have my Skeeta for those days.
Super little model and flys on a fart.
I have a very old F3J model (Simon_t's evolution), its heavy but floats around is a real pleasure to fly.
It even goes up the winch, yeah not an hardcore launch, but it puts it up there ok.

The older I get the more of a hankering I get for something Chris Foss wood related, like a multi-phase or a mini-phase.

Jon

Going back to hangar contents, I have to say that after watching Joel West have loads of fun with his Pike Perfect at a comp in wales years ago when it was sunny but still, I've had a hankering after that sort of model. 3.5m mouldies are pricey buggers though. Hoping my leccy Strega will approximate it. With workload at mo, I rather fancy the idea of a "lie back in the grass and float about" kind of flying experience, although clearly it will have to wait until summer as at the moment it's more of a "lay back in the mud" kind of deal!

Z

Get a big floater like a gentle lady or a big bird.  I'm sure a perfect is better but it's a lot of money to spend on the odd summer session.  There is something in flying models where you can look away for 10 seconds!
Or whatever that floater thing is you were on about before.

I like micro DLG's and have my eye on the Vladimir models ELF. Its only small but what a performer and a very pretty little machine too

Elf DLG flight 2

Could float in a hummingbirds backwash

I like micro DLG's and have my eye on the Vladimir models ELF. Its only small but what a performer and a very pretty little machine too

Elf DLG flight 2

Could float in a hummingbirds backwash

That was falling like a brick until he started sloping it in front of the trees.

Oh they do float. And quite well.

I wasn't sure in that video why he moved away from that ridge. He didn't need the penetration it should have sat quite nicely between the trees at the top of the slope.

DLG - ELF

Bear in mind this is no Blaster 3

Oh they do float. And quite well.

I wasn't sure in that video why he moved away from that ridge. He didn't need the penetration it should have sat quite nicely between the trees at the top of the slope.

Bear in mind this is no Blaster 3

<sniff>  I was that shape once...

Anyway, in what way is the Blaster 3 better/worse/different? I haven't got into DLGs yet, but this summer looks good to start...

The Blaster 3 is another from the Vladimir stable. It's 1.5m competitive model with quite complex wing structure which is light strong and gives good performance.

I haven't got one (yet) but MOST definately on my list. I really enjoy just chucking the things in the air, there's nothing more satisfying than banging in a good launch because its something you personally have achieved - not like just kicking it off a cliff.

And DLG's always remind me of summer, light winds, blue sky, thermals (i.e. rising air, NOT having to wear them)

I spend hours at the field flying these things

Somebody give him a pie....... . Ant.

Zimmey, you dont know how tempted I have been with the radical, again its funny how no one flys them here in the UK other the Ken Woodhouse.

That's about to change Jon - Martin W is building two F3F Radical's for me (stiffer wing and fuse lay-up, built to the German team spec), which I should receive in about six weeks time. I'll also be campaigning a Needle 124 courtesy of Thuro and T9. It's all change again - but it could be the last change for quite some time 

Cheers
Greg

Oh Greg, I remember having a conversation with you about Radical Pro's.
After nearly 2 years your now tempted, sweet.
I trust that they will be full RDS Compliant, built into the wings and skinned over ?

Those along with the Needle, proper decent models there.

I'm still getting to grips with the Extasy, (Broke the tail again, been fixed now).
Couldnt get enough weight in her for F3B either, but have 700g tungsten rods for the joiner, makes it go a bit better
Launches really well too, a very happy man with the model, shame the hollenbeck RDS is not as good.
But I do have a fix for it after seeing one of Mr Fu's threads.

Jon

That's about to change Jon - Martin W is building two F3F Radical's for me (stiffer wing and fuse lay-up, built to the German team spec), which I should receive in about six weeks time. I'll also be campaigning a Needle 124 courtesy of Thuro and T9. It's all change again - but it could be the last change for quite some time 

Cheers
Greg

Oooh and indeed er!
Very nice.

Thats ok Tom, we can wait for Greg's drop outs when he has finished playing with them
At least when you buy from Greg you get a bloody good model, well built and undamaged.

One side of me wants to go back to F3F and see Greg fly those suckers.

But some very nice pieces of hardware your getting there Greg.

Oh Greg, I remember having a conversation with you about Radical Pro's.
After nearly 2 years your now tempted, sweet.
I trust that they will be full RDS Compliant, built into the wings and skinned over ?

Yes, memories of the French VR banquet spring to mind Jon - there was plenty of hardware on display at that event to choose from, and the
German Radical's stood out to me as being top-notch airframes, particularly with the revised F3F spec. I've ordered both models with RDS installed during the moulding process - super delivery times too, six weeks.

Those along with the Needle, proper decent models there.

Hope so. I had an opportunity to see Pengy fly his Needle on Saturday, and it showed great potential  . I couldn't resist such a beautiful looking machine to complete my trio for 2012/13....and beyond.

I'm still getting to grips with the Extasy, (Broke the tail again, been fixed now).
Couldnt get enough weight in her for F3B either, but have 700g tungsten rods for the joiner, makes it go a bit better
Launches really well too, a very happy man with the model, shame the hollenbeck RDS is not as good.
But I do have a fix for it after seeing one of Mr Fu's threads..

Excellent, delighted to hear that the Extasy is working for you Jon, especially now that you've introduced Tungsten to the airframe - Bjorn-Tore Hagen flew a 31.xx at the Welsh Open with his Extasy, which was astounding!

Thats ok Tom, we can wait for Greg's drop outs when he has finished playing with them
At least when you buy from Greg you get a bloody good model, well built and undamaged.

One side of me wants to go back to F3F and see Greg fly those suckers.

But some very nice pieces of hardware your getting there Greg.

Sure thing Jon, you and Tom can have first dibbs on the goodies when I sell on
Thanks for the kind words - come back to F3F and see the hardware in action as soon as you can - if not I may have to pop a long to an F3B comp! 

Greg,
Good to hear from you.
BR Banquet and all those snails, lol !
Come along to an F3B event, maybe the speed so we can touch the hardware

As to F3F Greg, it would have to be an absolute stonker on the Wrecker or Crest (Like the day we had in April last year !).
Would be happy to come to s/wales for some sports flying though

Jon