Topic: Fu-Fix Fixes

Since I decided to stop repairs as a business (though yes still ploughing through those I have left that I have said I will still do), I get numerous calls to fix this and that and I'm afraid I have to turn down.

So I lend out jigs and moulds and talk desperate folk through the repairs in question as there isn't anyone out there that does this commercially anymore (good luck to anyone contemplating!). I've even had people coming up to the workshops to do their repairs here, which I'm cool about.

There is lots of stuff on forums of course, some I whince at and others I learn from.

Then I thought, as I no longer do repairs (commercially) then it might be a good idea I build up a series of articles showing what I did and what worked for me.

So here's the start, all my secrets. http://www.sloperacer.blogspot.com/p/fu-fix-fixes.html

Cheers T

Hi Tony.........that's a great article, will be of use to many, many people  , I'll look forward to seeing some more "secrets" 

 Thanks Tony, will be a great help I hope I'm not going to need often 
Great idea Tony. We slopers need a guru. The heli guy's have a smlar source of info from Finlees Bob on Helifreak. This way one man will make a difference

Hi Tony
Well done for opening this Pandora's box
I find its mostly people thinking they can't do the repair as well as you that stops them trying!
Also, people tend to repair breaks that will NEVER, EVER break there again and hurl on FAR too much filler and epoxy rather than glasscloth or thin carbon weave soaked in resin
Thanks for this info and I'm already looking forward with anticipation to the stuff about wingskin repair
BTW IMHO it's best to have a scruffy repair that allows you to fly the same model again and not spending too much time making it invisible
It's the flying that matters
Regards
Pete

Since I decided to stop repairs as a business (though yes still ploughing through those I have left that I have said I will still do), I get numerous calls to fix this and that and I'm afraid I have to turn down.

So I lend out jigs and moulds and talk desperate folk through the repairs in question as there isn't anyone out there that does this commercially anymore (good luck to anyone contemplating!). I've even had people coming up to the workshops to do their repairs here, which I'm cool about.

There is lots of stuff on forums of course, some I whince at and others I learn from.

Then I thought, as I no longer do repairs (commercially) then it might be a good idea I build up a series of articles showing what I did and what worked for me.

So here's the start, all my secrets. http://www.sloperacer.blogspot.com/p/fu-fix-fixes.html

Cheers T

Fantastic advice from the absolute master.

I can only imagine the benefits of this contribution (s).

Outstanding.

JH

Thank Tony, and thanks for the loan of the E-phoon jig.  Just waiting on your word to get it back to you.   

Looks like a great method and better than I have done, but then you've done a few more I guess.   

Looking forward to some more info on wing repairs.  It is still standing there      

Jerry

Thank Tony, and thanks for the loan of the E-phoon jig.  Just waiting on your word to get it back to you.   

Looks like a great method and better than I have done, but then you've done a few more I guess.   

Looking forward to some more info on wing repairs.  It is still standing there      

Yep,an article on rebuilding the leading edge of a hollow moulded wing when it's been crunched back to the spar would be very useful right now 

That Tony is making available this info is a fantastic thing. It's a little sad however that it's info that used to be commonly held - oh well, the world changes...

If after reading Tony's excellent notes, people are still not fancying doing their own repairs, I'd certainly be willing to look at them for people. Those who know me in 'real life' will now I run a composites business in Derbyshire (mostly motorsport and a few 'other' things). However, I won't have anything to do with couriers - it's drop off and collect only and I don't do painting - composite repairs only. If you want to know more PM me.

Regards,

S

Well sounds like I should keep this going then.

'Shred', I should be coming down and learning from you!

Perhaps others could contribute and set this up as a reference manual- there I go taking on much more than I should again!

Anyway, to follow will be 'finishing', filling, prep and painting of the Mini Vec fuse and then yes I will do a crunched D Box section after that. Its next on the benches. Then......

T

then yes I will do a crunched D Box section after that. Its next on the benches. Then......

 

I'd love to contribute, but my speciality is the bit just before it needs a repair... 

I'd love to contribute, but my speciality is the bit just before it needs a repair... 

That's how you get good at this!

Oh, that of course wasn't strictly correct in my case. It was Wrighty, again and again and again....   

Next installment is up- finishing and painting. http://sloperacer.blogspot.com/p/fu-fix-fixes.html

No mention/sign of you using stopper before the primer Tony.  Do you not bother?

I know you used the 3M red of green but a some £15 a tube, I thought it somewhat expensive for a singel repair as I expect a tube to go off once it is opened.

As a substitute I used the Holts Cataloy stopper.  I does the job for about 3.00 a tube but I 'spect it is not as good, and it is not easy to use.  It goes off fairly quickly and is pretty hard to spread evenly, specially on the broom handle shape of a fus. 

Many thanks for your generous & selfless contributions, Tony.

Also very well timed, as I'm desperately wanting to sort out a damaged wingtip on 2 carbon Destinys and a creased wing on a carbon Bird.

 

No mention/sign of you using stopper before the primer Tony.  Do you not bother?

I know you used the 3M red of green but a some £15 a tube, I thought it somewhat expensive for a singel repair as I expect a tube to go off once it is opened.

As a substitute I used the Holts Cataloy stopper.  I does the job for about 3.00 a tube but I 'spect it is not as good, and it is not easy to use.  It goes off fairly quickly and is pretty hard to spread evenly, specially on the broom handle shape of a fus. 

Just as a note on this product - I have a two year old tube of 3m red acryl stopper - used it intermittently during the period, still good as gold. Just store in a cold, dry, dark place. You don't need to worry about it Jerry.

Z

No mention/sign of you using stopper before the primer Tony.  Do you not bother?

I know you used the 3M red of green but a some £15 a tube, I thought it somewhat expensive for a singel repair as I expect a tube to go off once it is opened.

As a substitute I used the Holts Cataloy stopper.  I does the job for about 3.00 a tube but I 'spect it is not as good, and it is not easy to use.  It goes off fairly quickly and is pretty hard to spread evenly, specially on the broom handle shape of a fus. 

Jerry, I used to use 3M acryl green stopper but it took an age to thoroughly cure and can sink requiring another application. Used for just those tiny pinholes it's still great. But I used Upol Extra filler for the MiniVec. It's a bit finer for a polyester filler and I can fill quite small bits with it. It also doesn't sink and when its just mixed you can spread like cream cheese! It goes off quicker too in the heat box.

3M red or green is good but a fine 'bog' is quicker. Besides as you say it's expensive but my tube must be 2 yrs old and getting a bit stiff only now. T   

What's is "stopper" ?

I've never used the green, but have to say the red goes off excellently quick on the job.


Tonym - it's a filler in a toothpaste tube used to fill small surface defects such as weave/ pinholes.

Z

Hi Tony.

Thanks for this Thread and corresponding blog.

Any chance of letting us know your sources?
Fabrics, Resins,and that foam you push into the models.

Will

Great info there Tony.

How do you deal with replacing broken / kinked snake control runs?

Good question Rumbey and one I'm asked often!

In this case with Mini V, we got away with it and snakes were fine. If the owner had done a better 'job' the only answer is to replace. On RCRCM models the snakes are a smaller size than norm. The most common size is 2mm diameter inners but the problem is for most 3m planes you need snakes longer than 1m, which is the most common length available.

I carry RA system sets from Habe (www.aviogate.com) these are teflon coated and very flexible and found in most Habe designed models and majority of other top end Euro stuff too, FS3/4, Baudis, Webershock Radicals etc. They are the best. I use them in them workshops all the time as they come in 1.5m.

In fact there is tons of hard to get gems I buy in quantity to use ourselves (I have over 100 snakes in stock!). I'm very fussy, of course, as quality and ease of use is essential for the the build business. So all relevant to any glider man. Fair to say if there is anything used for a glider build or repair, I've probably used it, know which ones I like and as a consequence stock them.

Guess, it makes sense to be listing them to make them available, including the stuff Will has asked about.

As for snake replacement I'll add an appendum in the next few days on the Blog.   

T

Tony,
Filler/Stopper: any reason not to use car repairing cellulose knifing putty?

None Pete.

3m acryl red/green is acrylic version of cellulose stuff. It's newer, though not new, version used by car refinishers across the land, professional bodyshops no longer use 'celly' - though you'll probably tell me you know one! In any event true to say, both are fairly soft and can sink over time as both give off their solvent whilst drying, So you see an indent where they have been if filling too deep, 3m acryl is a bit better in this respect but I'm a big sucker for 3m products per se, (wed n dry, tapes, adhesives etc). TBH, fine polyester filler gives me less problems, Upol E is my favoured. I use cheap any nasty 'bog' for everything else, like making a jig or just once small mould. I do still use stopper but just tiny bits after primer coat and you discover a pin hole. It's still a flat and reprime but if its that small a dot of unthinned primer with a brush is quicker to apply. Which I then usually leave till next day as there is always another job to do. Then go with the wet n dry and prime bits again.

So weave fill use Upol E, tiny stuff either brush primer or use stopper. Some folk put a big thick coat (or multiple coats) of just primer. Unless your using 2 pack (and if you are you don't need to hear all this stuff), it will look great until it dries out a week or two down the line and then you see the repair coming through.  Cheers T     

Tony,
Do you have a supplier for 95/100gm carbon cloth. I can only find 200gm?

For repairs get this

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__10721__1K_Woven_Carbon_Fiber_Cloth_Fine_1K80g_m2_1mtr.html

Still cheap, even with post and tax, per m2 than euro sources and 80g!

For repairs get this

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__10721__1K_Woven_Carbon_Fiber_Cloth_Fine_1K80g_m2_1mtr.html

Still cheap, even with post and tax, per m2 than euro sources and 80g!

Hi Tony, is that Twill weave or straight?
Brian

Tony

In your very explicit description of how to repair a fuselage you started with a piece of "carbon sheet" that you cyanoed into the inside of the break to provide a backing to build on. Was this a piece you made up for the job?

You inferred it was a bit that you had lying about.

I do not have such bits lying about.

Would I make a piece by doing say a 2-3 layer build up on a piece of glass or round a glass or piece of foam suitably shaped? Or what?

Thank you for the demonstration. I look forward to more.

Max

Tony

In your very explicit description of how to repair a fuselage you started with a piece of "carbon sheet" that you cyanoed into the inside of the break to provide a backing to build on. Was this a piece you made up for the job?

You inferred it was a bit that you had lying about.
I do not have such bits lying about.

Would I make a piece by doing say a 2-3 layer build up on a piece of glass or round a glass or piece of foam suitably shaped? Or what?

Thank you for the demonstration. I look forward to more.

Max

You make a mould of the other side of the fuz.  I use polymorph which is reusable.  I've only just started doing more indepth repairs and with the help of Tony and a mate locally its all starting to come together, excuse the pun!.

BTW Some lightish Carbon cloth on ebay too:   http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Lightweight-carbon-cloth-/150731941282?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_BoatEquipment_Accessories_SM&hash=item231852e5a2

Tony

In your very explicit description of how to repair a fuselage you started with a piece of "carbon sheet" that you cyanoed into the inside of the break to provide a backing to build on. Was this a piece you made up for the job?

You inferred it was a bit that you had lying about.

I do not have such bits lying about.



Would I make a piece by doing say a 2-3 layer build up on a piece of glass or round a glass or piece of foam suitably shaped? Or what?

Thank you for the demonstration. I look forward to more.

Max

Max, its preformed. I use a bottle, would you believe to mould bits like that but anything round without a taper will do. Its oversized for the boom which still works as you pull tight with a hook inside fuse. Finding something a bit closer to the boom diameter would be better of course but not critical. It doesn't have to be too thick, flexible is easier to conform. Dead easy to make and you don't need to make a mould first.

A couple layers of 200g is more than enough.   

Once you made it once, you'll have offcuts!

That carbon on Ebay is cheap! Stuff from HK is plain weave.

You make a mould of the other side of the fuz.  I use polymorph which is reusable.  I've only just started doing more indepth repairs and with the help of Tony and a mate locally its all starting to come together, excuse the pun!.

BTW Some lightish Carbon cloth on ebay too:   http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Lightweight-carbon-cloth-/150731941282?pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_BoatEquipment_Accessories_SM&hash=item231852e5a2

Got a meter on order.
Lets see what its like.
Could be good fir finishing repairs, and also laying up tail planes.
anybody else on here ordered some? I see there has been some sold today.

Got a meter on order.
Lets see what its like.
Could be good fir finishing repairs, and also laying up tail planes.
anybody else on here ordered some? I see there has been some sold today.

I will be interested to see what you think of this cloth, as we could have a smashing summer this year.   

I will be interested to see what you think of this cloth, as we could have a smashing summer this year.   

A good friend emailed saying he has purchased from this supplier / this product in the past and it seems to be legit (Always my concern when buying carbon).
I will be using it to fix my d40 (want to keep it light), and a couple of other repairs. Then I need to fix and lay up a couple of tail planes too.
Would also have been interested in the stuff Tony linked, but purchasing from the us is a pain.

Think this a great thread to encourage fliers to "have a go" at a repair. Here's a before and after pic of a Higgins F20 i got for a song because of the damage ! Now ready for more strong wind action !!

Next installment is up- finishing and painting. http://sloperacer.blogspot.com/p/fu-fix-fixes.html

Hey Tony, any news on the next instalment? I've been breaking things in anticipation  

 

Hey Tony, any news on the next instalment? I've been breaking things in anticipation  

 

It's up and this one is definitely cutting edge and I think will encourage a lot more folk to have a go! http://www.sloperacer.blogspot.co.uk/p/fu-fix-fixes.html

plenty if time at the computer then Tony...  Any chance of answering my emails?

It's up and this one is definitely cutting edge and I think will encourage a lot more folk to have a go! http://www.sloperacer.blogspot.co.uk/p/fu-fix-fixes.html

Ah just did a similar repair on my D60 leading edges but with heavy mix microballon and epoxy.  I'll try the foaming stuff next time.

These are great blogs Tony, thanks for sharing

Magic. any idea of the cost of Sicomin PB 250 ?

Magic. any idea of the cost of Sicomin PB 250 ?

Yeah, that was the scary thing about the stuff the Aussies were using, although I think they were buying huge tins.

So, if I have a reasonable condition skin I can try that method, otherwise what?

Cut it out, carve blue foam to shape then glass over it? It's details like tying the edges in for strength that I'm not sure about.