[Wiz]

I would say so but many of those will be reading-only having followed links from elsewhere.

[Cactus]

the BIG BIG point in favour of this forum is that whenever you need help or advice it is given freely and quickly.

i have in the past asked a question here because i knew i'd get the answer quicker than going up the shed to find out!

[Yoyo]

i have in the past asked a question here because i knew i'd get the answer quicker than going up the shed to find out!

I've asked again because it's quicker than searching the forum for the answer 

But then again, I've bought a new one of something when I know I've already got one, but it's far easier to buy another one than find it in the garage... 

[Michael_Rolls]

i have in the past asked a question here because i knew i'd get the answer quicker than going up the shed to find out!

Very true! One of the great strengths of the forum is the vast range of non-aeromodelling knowledge and experience that members collectively possess.
Mike

[half throttle]

i have in the past asked a question here because i knew i'd get the answer quicker than going up the shed to find out!

Me too! 

Especially if they've nothing to do with R/C model aircraft. 

[lanicopter]

Seeing as I'm someone who has faced the wrath of RCMF in the past, I think the reputation this place has is kind of justified. I was brash, confident and enthusiastic but never offensive, yet I was treated like a "know it all" and told in no uncertain terms that I should back down and know my place, as it were... oh and also called a tw@t which was nice.

Fast forward and now I'm enjoying a fulfilling hobby (pretty much every single day!) with orders of magnitude more knowledge than I started off with, but sadly unable to become a member of my local club because they see me as "offensive" or "dangerous" after what was posted on a forum. I suspect none of that would have enraged people if it had been done in person though.

It's sad really, I feel like I'm missing out on a great aspect of the hobby but because of a mixture of mine and the egos of people on here, I'm unable to take part in it - so I just fly by myself.

Advice? Embrace the newbies - not everybody wants to fly into cars or bring the hobby to its knees although some of the ideas and actions of newbies would, I admit, lead you to believe this was the case. They just need a gentle shove in the right direction

In the meantime, I learned that I actually know jack sh** about anything in this hobby, and I still continue to follow the advice some of the less vocal (and angry!) members gave me in PM - enjoy the hobby responsibly. I got a bad taste in my mouth from this place and almost jacked everything in! Thankfully I didn't, but I do tend to lurk on here more than post because of that - it's just not worth the agro!

3 greens!

[Wiz]

Thanks for posting Ian, I'm grateful that you did because it highlights an aspect that we may not have considered and that is, things that get said on here (and on any web-site for that matter) are real and consigned to our history forever.  Things that are said also can and do have a real impact on people outside of this place too - we might think that it's all "in these four walls" so to speak but it's not it has a real impact on real life too and I think that's worth remembering.

[jetster]

I agree with Ian above, I believe forums have become too politically correct, posters now think twice before commenting. When I come on this site the first thing I look at are the recent posts and generally it is full of the 'faithful' indulging in chat not pertaining to RC. Sadly there is no life on here these days, no healthy discussion, no one asking questions for fear of being put down by the 'experts', Such a shame.

[tomkfly]

I agree with Ian above, I believe forums have become too politically correct, posters now think twice before commenting. When I come on this site the first thing I look at are the recent posts and generally it is full of the 'faithful' indulging in chat not pertaining to RC. Sadly there is no life on here these days, no healthy discussion, no one asking questions for fear of being put down by the 'experts', Such a shame.

I don't think anyone gets put down for asking a question, but the respondents often get attacked, which puts some people from answering questions.

Tom

[bobt]

I agree with Ian above, I believe forums have become too politically correct, posters now think twice before commenting. When I come on this site the first thing I look at are the recent posts and generally it is full of the 'faithful' indulging in chat not pertaining to RC. Sadly there is no life on here these days, no healthy discussion, no one asking questions for fear of being put down by the 'experts', Such a shame.

I disagree with that, Jetster- I have personally injected advice (be it good or bad) into a number of threads recently, and would like to think that I am helping, at least to ask questions if nothing else. What tends to happen is that there are a lot of posts asking for help with various things, these are usually answered instantly, and within a few minutes, or at least hours, the poster has his answers. End of post. The threads which carry on are like this one at 4 pages, which has a lot of discussion and disagreement (as opposed to argument) and can continue for a long time, and it is these which tend to degenerate into a slagging match. The simple 'asking for help' posts are not usually argumentative. Help, when asked for, is given freely and with no sign of anyone being put down.

[Yoyo]

I disagree with that, Jetster- I have personally injected advice (be it good or bad) into a number of threads recently, and would like to think that I am helping, at least to ask questions if nothing else. What tends to happen is that there are a lot of posts asking for help with various things, these are usually answered instantly, and within a few minutes, or at least hours, the poster has his answers. End of post. The threads which carry on are like this one at 4 pages, which has a lot of discussion and disagreement (as opposed to argument) and can continue for a long time, and it is these which tend to degenerate into a slagging match. The simple 'asking for help' posts are not usually argumentative. Help, when asked for, is given freely and with no sign of anyone being put down.

Completely agree. I'd be curious to see some examples where people have been 'attacked' for asking questions?

Either it happens and I've missed it completely (maybe because I only do gliders and off-topic stuff, and it's all in the building and/or power threads?) - or it doesn't actually happen but there are a significant number of people who are perceiving that it does.

In either case we could do with pinning it down and trying to figure it out.

[bobt]

Completely agree. I'd be curious to see some examples where people have been 'attacked' for asking questions?

Either it happens and I've missed it completely (maybe because I only do gliders and off-topic stuff, and it's all in the building and/or power threads?) - or it doesn't actually happen but there are a significant number of people who are perceiving that it does.

In either case we could do with pinning it down and trying to figure it out.

that hits the nail on the head....

[Charlie C]

that hits the nail on the head....

For what its worth, everyone's perception is different on a particular subject, so, you may perceive that all is well in a thread yet my perception could be totally different.

I'm speaking from experience here in that a few years ago I was moaned at, to put it mildly, by someone on a particular subject and I couldn't see where he was coming from or why he was moaning at me, yet this party carried on, it all got a bit tetchy to say the least.

Others, thought the guy was really offensive.

If the post that started it off had been my first, I think I would have been off, never to return.

Now add that in with some of the stuff that has flown around here and then put yourself in the places of:

1. A newbie.
2. A seasoned and well respected member of the community.

The first runs off never to return and the second admits to lying low as he's getting fed up with it all.

Now where are we going 

Its only my take on the subject, but I agree with Wiz.

We need to do something about it, and we need to do it soon, otherwise, one peed off ex member or newbie to many, can ruin the reputation of the Forum that we have here.

What then??

Just my thoughts.

Charlie C

[Michael_Rolls]

Completely agree. I'd be curious to see some examples where people have been 'attacked' for asking questions?

Either it happens and I've missed it completely (maybe because I only do gliders and off-topic stuff, and it's all in the building and/or power threads?) - or it doesn't actually happen but there are a significant number of people who are perceiving that it does.

In either case we could do with pinning it down and trying to figure it out.

I have to agree, although having had it inferred (to my surprise and dismay) that I am part of the problem I suppose that I will be seen as gullible and missing the problem.

Mike

[meharibear]

I may be wrong, but I don't think it's the posts asking for help which USUALLY cause the problems.  It's more often the innocent remarks, frequently from "newbies" (for obvious reasons). 
For example, when I first became active on here, a guy (new to R/C flight) started to post videos taken from an ARTF.  They showed him using a very quiet road to take off and land although his flying was over adjoining fields.   This was clearly a stupid thing to be doing.  However, instead of gently educating the chap (which some tried) others on here at that time simply slagged him off for his stupidity.  Result?  He leaves and perhaps is even now, in ignorance, following other dangerous practices - BECAUSE HE KNOWS NO BETTER - Had he stayed he might have become educated and enlightened.  Just my thoughts you understand?

[SteveBB]

I may be wrong, but I don't think it's the posts asking for help which USUALLY cause the problems.  It's more often the innocent remarks, frequently from "newbies" (for obvious reasons). 
For example, when I first became active on here, a guy (new to R/C flight) started to post videos taken from an ARTF.  They showed him using a very quiet road to take off and land although his flying was over adjoining fields.   This was clearly a stupid thing to be doing.  However, instead of gently educating the chap (which some tried) others on here at that time simply slagged him off for his stupidity.  Result?  He leaves and perhaps is even now, in ignorance, following other dangerous practices - BECAUSE HE KNOWS NO BETTER - Had he stayed he might have become educated and enlightened.  Just my thoughts you understand?

I know who you're referring to mate. As you say, some did try to gently persuade him to change his approach, and as I understand it, an offer or two was made for him to join a local club. As I understood it though, he declined or wasn't willing to keep to a few basic rules. Either way, he became a champion of FPV, and I'm sure most here will remember the ding dong that incurred with debate over a certain (since removed) video of an easyglider flying almost five miles away at several thousend feet.

[Yoyo]

For what its worth, everyone's perception is different on a particular subject, so, you may perceive that all is well in a thread yet my perception could be totally different.

That's all  fair enough, but the only way to possibly deal with that is to restrict the forum down to purely dry technical questions and single line facts-only answers.

That's not a place I'd ever use except as a Google search response.

I can see that some people might perceive a spirited discussion as a vicious argument, especially if they don't realise that the participants know each other fro many past discussions. To make something like that completely non-scary you'd have to do the equivalent of everybody going quiet when somebody new enters the room - which is no friendlier than carrying on in my opinion.

I do completely agree that the forum should be a place where people feel free to ask questions, from newbie questions that 99% of the people on here know the answer to, to exotic questions that the most knowledgeable can only surmise about.

The problem is that I thought it was like that, but others don't seem to.

Yes there are occasional spats where someone throws their teddy out of the pram, but generally they are moderated back or even quieted down by other people in the discussion. It's just like real life, you wouldn't expect to walk into a pub or even say a model engineering society clubhouse and have everybody instantly adjust to *your* sensibilities, which they don't know.

In real life you do what I did here - you go in and sit quietly in a corner, talking to a few friendly people that you know. In my case that was the regional gliding group used by the people I fly with. While you're there, you watch and listen to what's going on in the rest of the room. If you hear a conversation that interests you, or where you think you have something to add, you go and join in.

Over time, you get to know more of the people, figure out who knows what, who you just don't get on with, who has the same interests as you, who enjoys a joke and who has no sense of humour or proportion.

A forum is a social place, not an encyclopaedia. If you only want dry facts and no social interaction, why not use Google? Or, if you want a specific answer, ask it here, but don't be surprised if people start discussing other aspects around it as well as answering it directly, it's their social place too.

Well, that turned out longer than I expected, but I think it describes how I see RCMF fairly well, and explains how I use it. It isn't "Yahoo Answers".

Opinions may vary, and that's absolutely fine. I promise not to get upset if anybody disagrees. Why would anybody ever get upset about that? 

 

[Yoyo]

I know who you're referring to mate. As you say, some did try to gently persuade him to change his approach, and as I understand it, an offer or two was made for him to join a local club. As I understood it though, he declined or wasn't willing to keep to a few basic rules. Either way, he became a champion of FPV, and I'm sure most here will remember the ding dong that incurred with debate over a certain (since removed) video of an easyglider flying almost five miles away at several thousend feet.

As one of those who tried to gently persuade him, I have to say that sometimes there will be people who won't consider anything that disagrees with their own opinion, and will fight back more aggressively the more you try to persuade them. Eventually I usually end up just leaving them to it, but for some people backing off and turning the other cheek isn't so easy, and that's when it can get nasty. Which is where the mods come in, and that's fine too, it's a necessary check and balance, to be used only when necessary.

[Michael_Rolls]

Yoyo
Two posts with which I totally agree
Mike

[Yoyo]

Yoyo
Two posts with which I totally agree
Mike

And me and you have disagreed on things on the past, too! 

It reminds me of a day when a neighbour had two young kids who were squabbling and bawling continuously all day long. I asked her how she managed to still be in a relaxed, pleasant mood - she said 'They're having a bad day. I'm not.'

People (generally, not just here) need to learn to separate 'having a differing opinion' from 'attacking everything you stand for, including your very existence'.

[leccyflyer]

I'm also compellled to point something out, which ought to be blindingly obvious, but which does need saying, a community like this one evolves over time and the dramatis personae will change over time. However, in most cases, there will be a hard core of regulars who are happy with the "feel" of the place and how it works. That, presumably is why they are there and why they post.

There is a very real danger, in attempting to make a forum all things to all men, that you lose that and end up with nothing. It is all to easy to throw the baby out with the bathwater, chasing the elusive new transient members who, mysteriously, are alleged to have been somehow scared away, but whom, it is assumed, would otherwise have become prolific contributors.

[leccyflyer]

And me and you have disagreed on things on the past, too! 

It reminds me of a day when a neighbour had two young kids who were squabbling and bawling continuously all day long. I asked her how she managed to still be in a relaxed, pleasant mood - she said 'They're having a bad day. I'm not.'

People (generally, not just here) need to learn to separate 'having a differing opinion' from 'attacking everything you stand for, including your very existence'.

That would be the single biggest factor in improving forum harmony. It's completely obvious that challenging of ideas, concepts and abstract notions, as well as technical details, solutions and methods is not the same thing as attacking the person, but, unfortunately it is apparant that for some folks there simply is no distinction. If you disagree with an idea that they have posted, and express that disagreement, they will see that as a personal attack and respond in a personal manner.

[Michael_Rolls]

I'm also compellled to point something out, which ought to be blindingly obvious, but which does need saying, a community like this one evolves over time and the dramatis personae will change over time. However, in most cases, there will be a hard core of regulars who are happy with the "feel" of the place and how it works. That, presumably is why they are there and why they post.

There is a very real danger, in attempting to make a forum all things to all men, that you lose that and end up with nothing. It is all to easy to throw the baby out with the bathwater, chasing the elusive new transient members who, mysteriously, are alleged to have been somehow scared away, but whom, it is assumed, would otherwise have become prolific contributors.

Another post with which I totally agree
Mike

[meharibear]

I have to agree with SteveBB, Yoyo and Leccy's posts above.  There is no perfect solution, but without the aid of "body language" we have to be slightly more careful with online newbies to a forum like this than we do with new club  members.

Oh, and thanks to all for the welcome I received and the assistance I get from this forum on an almost daily basis!

[Yoyo]

I have to agree with SteveBB, Yoyo and Leccy's posts above.  There is no perfect solution, but without the aid of "body language" we have to be slightly more careful with online newbies to a forum like this than we do with new club  members.

Oh, and thanks to all for the welcome I received and the assistance I get from this forum on an almost daily basis!

Presumably as the last half dozen posters on here are 'regulars' who post a fair amount, there is a chance that some people might see this thread as 'taken over' and feel intimidated about posting on it now? Personally I can't see how that could happen, but then again that would fit the pattern too.

Can I ask anyone that feels that way to at least PM Wiz to say so? I know Wiz is not afraid of being contentious, so please let him make the point for you.

Nobody here wants to upset or attack anyone on a personal basis.

[Michael_Rolls]

Presumably as the last half dozen posters on here are 'regulars' who post a fair amount, there is a chance that some people might see this thread as 'taken over' and feel intimidated about posting on it now? Personally I can't see how that could happen, but then again that would fit the pattern too.

Can I ask anyone that feels that way to at least PM Wiz to say so? I know Wiz is not afraid of being contentious, so please let him make the point for you.

Nobody here wants to upset or attack anyone on a personal basis.

Yoyo
Well said
Mike

[Steve J]

For example, when I first became active on here, a guy (new to R/C flight) started to post videos taken from an ARTF.  They showed him using a very quiet road to take off and land although his flying was over adjoining fields.   This was clearly a stupid thing to be doing.  However, instead of gently educating the chap (which some tried) others on here at that time simply slagged him off for his stupidity.  Result ?

The result is that he is now a moderator over at fpvuk  .

Steve

[SteveBB]

The result is that he is now a moderator over at fpvuk  .

Steve

Onward and upward!! That genuinely made me chuckle.

[bobt]

From my personal experience of joining the community, I first of all perceived a rather 'clique-y' state of affairs, a post I made in the early days referring to use of rudder in cross wind circuits (which I still stand by!) was jumped on from a great height by what I perceived as PDRs personal praetorian guard, and could quite easily have been put off forever. Being a stubborn git, I persevered, and now have respect for almost all who post on a regular basis, I have never 'ignored' anyone, and now listen to others opinions a bit more than I used to. There is a wealth of information on here, not just on model aircraft, and I have been amazed at some of the struggles against lifes tragedies on here. The advice to newcomers above, to sit and watch for a while before posting, is very wise. Those who do get put off by the thought of 'jumping in' are missing out on a lot of accumulated knowledge.

[lanicopter]

Yup, and that would be me ... (I expect I'll be banned again for re-registering    )

Problem is, no matter what I did that "broke the rules" (laws? not so much) as such (i.e. flying off that C road), I don't think it deserved me being called a tw@t and being labelled some kind of reckless individual. It really wasn't that big a deal at the time even if I now recognise that it wasn't the best thing to do. Fact is, I like RC planes, I can comfortably fly multiple things now including multicopters, EDFs etc and I'm damn well enthusiastic about it (and hopefully always will be) in the same way that some people are enthusiastic about building (sometimes even more than flying their creations!).  I have quite a nice collection of gear now too, this is not just some fad.

Worth mentioning that I only ever fly off a field now and I have permission from the farmer (which is nice).

Anyway I digress ... I would love to join my local club and LEARN MORE but the fact is that isn't going to happen is it because well, I won't associate with people who act like that online when they're supposed to be representative of the hobby. Rather sad really, I like to think I have a fair bit to offer.

Anyway - this is not about me, but this is about the perspective of newbies to the hobby and forum... and that's mine

(Oh one more thing to make it clear that the Easy Glider "ding dong" referred to by SteveBB above was nothing whatsoever to do with me, I think wires are crossed there).

[DarrellW]

I found things a bit hard when I first came on here, it was a bit like being a newcomer to a small village, my real problem was my lack of know how, still is but I've always been the sort of person who would help anyone (almost to a fault) so if I see anything going on that I genuinely believe I could give advice on I will no matter what the subject; being on here once I had let people know who I was, what I was on here for and what I did and didn't know I have been over the moon about the relstionship(s) that habr developed. I look forward to everything that the forum offers me - friendship, advice and encouragement. Keep up the good work

[lanicopter]

Yes... might I add too that there is a reason that I re-registered ... the forum is a GREAT source of knowledge and advice if you cut out all the crap and obnoxious armchair know-it-alls... I think that says a lot.

[meharibear]

Yes... might I add too that there is a reason that I re-registered ... the forum is a GREAT source of knowledge and advice if you cut out all the crap and obnoxious armchair know-it-alls... I think that says a lot.

Good to see you back!  I think one of the problems is that the lack of body language (as referred to above) leads people who don't "know" the characters involved to think "Obnoxious know-it-all" when reading a post which the sender thinks they sent as  "advice from a wise uncle"!
If we all think the best intentions were meant by the poster we might get along better!

[lanicopter]

that is certainly true meharibear, thanks for the welcome back (i've been here a while)... however I do realise it works both ways, a newbie cannot pretend they know it all because that will cheese off the people who actually do.

It still doesn't excuse the whole swearing and insult thing though, there was no need and I didn't expect it actually. Said person seemed a good guy in the flesh, which makes it even more of a shame that tempers flared online and soured what could have been the start of a good friendship. I suspect he probably thought that about me too.

Swings and roundabouts

[Patmac]

Just my opinion but replies #148 & #149  are misrepresentations of the full facts & are atypical of how newcomers are treated on the forum. (Ironically, IIRC, it was Bobt who initially admonished Ianicopter for flying from a road.  )

IMO neither posts are really helpful to this thread.

[lanicopter]

Depends on your perspective Patmac - it was certainly typical of MY experience, maybe not yours. Then again, perhaps you were better behaved

[bobt]

Just my opinion but replies #148 & #149  are misrepresentations of the full facts & are atypical of how newcomers are treated on the forum. (Ironically, IIRC, it was Bobt who initially admonished Ianicopter for flying from a road.  )

and quite rightly so, as he now agrees. But, (and I have not gone to look at that thread) I dont think I would have been rude or sworn....

[SteveBB]

(Oh one more thing to make it clear that the Easy Glider "ding dong" referred to by SteveBB above was nothing whatsoever to do with me, I think wires are crossed there).

Oh I know that Ian: No implication on your good self was intended. 

[bobt]

Depends on your perspective Patmac - it was certainly typical of MY experience, maybe not yours. Then again, perhaps you were better behaved

I dont think so.....

[JWM]

I was never a prolific poster on here, but after being subjected to what I perceived to be a sarcastic slap-down by one of the 'knowledgable regulars', I gave up posting at all. It wasn't really worth complaining about, and if anyone else had read it, it probably wouldn't have seemed all that dreadful to them, but it annoyed and embarrassed me, so I thought 'why bother, life's too short, if I want to expose myself to such rudeness I've got the wife'. So now I check in here regularly but keep my head below the parapet.

The general impression of the regulars on here appears to be that nothing is wrong, but Wiz has hard statistics and has to be given great credit for trying to address a very sticky problem. I hope a slightly tighter moderation policy does the trick without spoiling everybody's fun.