[Patmac]

Ianicopter, you didn't make your forum debut like a typical newcomer nor did you respond to advice or discussion very positively. IIRC, to put it bluntly you brought most of the problems on yourself - not that I approve of the personal insults & name calling that were aimed your way.
For these reasons, as a newcomer, your treatment was atypical.

[bobt]

Just my opinion but replies #148 & #149  are misrepresentations of the full facts & are atypical of how newcomers are treated on the forum. (Ironically, IIRC, it was Bobt who initially admonished Ianicopter for flying from a road.  )

IMO neither posts are really helpful to this thread.

What? Maybe you had better explain that one, I thought that my post was reasonable and certainly not unhelpful?
From my personal experience of joining the community, I first of all perceived a rather 'clique-y' state of affairs, a post I made in the early days referring to use of rudder in cross wind circuits (which I still stand by!) was jumped on from a great height by what I perceived as PDRs personal praetorian guard, and could quite easily have been put off forever. Being a stubborn git, I persevered, and now have respect for almost all who post on a regular basis, I have never 'ignored' anyone, and now listen to others opinions a bit more than I used to. There is a wealth of information on here, not just on model aircraft, and I have been amazed at some of the struggles against lifes tragedies on here. The advice to newcomers above, to sit and watch for a while before posting, is very wise. Those who do get put off by the thought of 'jumping in' are missing out on a lot of accumulated knowledge.

[lanicopter]

I'm not disagreeing with you Patmac :thumbsup:

[Yoyo]

Oh I know that Ian: No implication on your good self was intended. 

Is it IANicopter or LANicopter? I've always read it as LANicopter...

Anyway, without at all wishing to reignite the FPV debates, ISTR you first appeared just after a previous thread with a much more obnoxious FPV evangelist with a very in-your-face attitude had ended up being locked and eventually deleted... then in you popped,all cheery and "you-can't-tell-me-what to do"!

The problem with most of the threads that go awry is that the majority of moderate people who are trying to find a compromise can get drowned out by one stroppy bugger who loses his rag. Several threads seem to have been getting somewhere but get deleted instead of just the stroppy posts getting tidied up.

I appreciate though that that needs a fine touch and probably more time than is fair to expect from the moderators.

[Patmac]

What? Maybe you had better explain that one, I thought that my post was reasonable and certainly not unhelpful?
From my personal experience of joining the community, I first of all perceived a rather 'clique-y' state of affairs, a post I made in the early days referring to use of rudder in cross wind circuits (which I still stand by!) was jumped on from a great height by what I perceived as PDRs personal praetorian guard, and could quite easily have been put off forever. Being a stubborn git, I persevered, and now have respect for almost all who post on a regular basis, I have never 'ignored' anyone, and now listen to others opinions a bit more than I used to. There is a wealth of information on here, not just on model aircraft, and I have been amazed at some of the struggles against lifes tragedies on here. The advice to newcomers above, to sit and watch for a while before posting, is very wise. Those who do get put off by the thought of 'jumping in' are missing out on a lot of accumulated knowledge.

There was nothing "clique-y" about the responses you got. Several people independently questioned your bad advice (robustly but not insultingly) because it was given to beginners & someone (not PDR) suggested that if you didn't see where you were wrong you should consider giving up teaching beginners.

BTW you haven't answered my earlier comment - reply #41. 

[Patmac]

I'm not disagreeing with you Patmac :thumbsup:

In that case I'm more than happy to welcome you back.  IIRC you originate from Ashington so we might bump into each other in real life.

[Wiz]

Is it me or has this topic started to go bad too?

[bobt]

There was nothing "clique-y" about the responses you got. Several people independently questioned your bad advice (robustly but not insultingly) because it was given to beginners & someone (not PDR) suggested that if you didn't see where you were wrong you should consider giving up teaching beginners.

BTW you haven't answered my earlier comment - reply #41.

Did you read the PERCEPTION bit? It was how I saw it at the time, thats how it came over, rightly or wrongly. This thread is about the perceptions of newcomers, that was MY perception.
Incidentally, I still teach newcomers to use their rudder.

[leccyflyer]

It's not you, Wiz. 

[Norfolk'n'Good]

ref "Less busy posting but more watching" I just find myself having less to say at the moment.  I feel if no one has anything constructive to say/add nothing is the greater alternative.

[Yoyo]

Is it me or has this topic started to go bad too?

It's not just you. 

Sometimes it's best just to let past things stay in the past...

I think everyone involved has learned what they can from the FPV debates, let's leave that one alone and move on.
 

[RGN]

[snip] This thread is about the perceptions of newcomers[/snip]

Not really, I thought it was about why there are more watchers than posters.

While important, the experience of newcomers is not the only problem. There are some 'old hands' that simply ask/tell you to stop disagreeing with them (or to stop making posts that disagree with them). They seemingly forget that everyone has a right to their own opinion and the right to put it politely yet forcefully.

If you then dare to continue to try to get your opinion heard it often gets personal. You are then faced with the choice - stop posting or it gets unpleasant. Faced with that I think many have chosen to stop posting.

Richard

[lanicopter]

Patmac - yes I visit fairly regularly as my family are from Ashington and still grace the fair land with their presence I'll probably head back up North in a couple of years ... you're one the guys who flies off Seaton Sluice, right? Watched a few of your videos and started pining for home heh

[marcellus]

Is it me or has this topic started to go bad too?

Yes, it's become dominated by half a dozen with lots to say. The fundemental question of how to get more posting hasn't really been answered....

Guy

[bobt]

Yes, it's become dominated by half a dozen with lots to say. The fundemental question of how to get more posting hasn't really been answered....

Guy

odd- I count 19 in the last two pages. So, do you have an answer? (Its a genuine question, not having a go)

[lanicopter]

Is it IANicopter or LANicopter? I've always read it as LANicopter...

Anyway, without at all wishing to reignite the FPV debates, ISTR you first appeared just after a previous thread with a much more obnoxious FPV evangelist with a very in-your-face attitude had ended up being locked and eventually deleted... then in you popped,all cheery and "you-can't-tell-me-what to do"!

The problem with most of the threads that go awry is that the majority of moderate people who are trying to find a compromise can get drowned out by one stroppy bugger who loses his rag. Several threads seem to have been getting somewhere but get deleted instead of just the stroppy posts getting tidied up.

I appreciate though that that needs a fine touch and probably more time than is fair to expect from the moderators.

it's LANIcopter .. my daughter Allanah gets "Lani" as a nickname, I even named my company after her

Back on track though, I suppose it all boils down to the fact that noone CAN tell me what to do - that isn't to say that I want to do anything bad though, I prefer to stick to the rules so perhaps there's a bit of compromise to be had on both sides; at the end of the day this is a hobby that everyone wants to enjoy in different ways. I'm certainly not out to spoil anyone's day.

Anyway ... feel free to PM me if you like

[marcellus]

odd- I count 19 in the last two pages. So, do you have an answer? (Its a genuine question, not having a go)

I'm not really sure. I find when I post (except when I ask a specific question) I'm ignored. So I find things rather cliquey.

I miss the glider fraternity for sure. I found their inputs much more interesting than our current lot me, included.

I expect restoring the previous posting numbers will be a slow process, building posting confidence over time!

[Yoyo]

Back on track though, I suppose it all boils down to the fact that noone CAN tell me what to do

That's completely true, and I feel exactly the same way.

The difference is between knowing that nobody can tell you what to do, and going into a room full of strangers and telling them they can't tell you what to do...

For the record, I've got no problem with you - or with anybody. I'll disagree with people if I think their opinion is wrong, and I expect people to disagree with me if they feel like that too.

But I still can't see why anyone would go from that to personal attacks, that's playground stuff.

[Yoyo]

I'm not really sure. I find when I post (except when I ask a specific question) I'm ignored. So I find things rather cliquey.

Guy, you know me personally so I hope you have a fair idea what I'm like 'for real'. I haven't reviewed what you've written lately to check, but my feeling is that you either ask a question and get an answer, or make a comment about something which doesn't necessarily need an answer anyway.

It's easy to see 'ignoring' or other cliquey things going on when I don't think they are - I've noticed half a dozen times in the last couple of months that something I said gets commented later on in the thread as a good idea, but ascribed to someone else! Once or twice when it's very blatant I've double checked they didn't say it too then grumbled, but generally I let it go.

I don't think it's deliberate, and even if it is, it's not something I care enough to fight about..

I miss the glider fraternity for sure. I found their inputs much more interesting than our current lot me, included.

Me too.

But curiously a lot of the (often pretty technical) stuff that went on was in the form of disagreements between a small group of participants with varying opinions, many of who were long standing regulars who did wind each other up and have a laugh in the process.

You can't say that wasn't a clique when one left to pastures new and several others left in support...

[marcellus]

Hi Paul, Selsley was awesome this afternoon.

[Yoyo]

Hi Paul, Selsley was awesome this afternoon.

I thought it would be, but I went out yesterday and ran out of pink passes...

[bobt]

I'm not really sure. I find when I post (except when I ask a specific question) I'm ignored. So I find things rather cliquey.

I miss the glider fraternity for sure. I found their inputs much more interesting than our current lot me, included.

I expect restoring the previous posting numbers will be a slow process, building posting confidence over time!

Thats pretty much how I was at first. It is a perception of a clique, I dont think there actually is one. The glider guys seemed to ignore anyone who was not a gliderist, which I think was wrong, its all the same hobby, and most techie stuff crosses over anyway. Its always the pub area which generates sharp reactions from people, look through the scale, the transmitter threads etc, and they all seem perfectly amicable.

[slurp]

Is it me or has this topic started to go bad too?

No Wiz. It's not you. I can see where the problem lies. 

[Gary]

No Wiz. It's not you. I can see where the problem lies. 

Everybody wants the last word and they wont let it rest till they get it

[slurp]

Everybody wants the last word and they wont let it rest till they get it

Scuse me?  Have i said something wrong? Wiz asked a question..i answered it as did others, surely if he can see that more than one or two of us can see the problem, then that will make him feel that he isnt just going nuts and seeing things that arent there?

[Gary]

Sorry Maz, Was'nt getting at you in any way. It just seems to me that the posters are now only posting to have the last word.

[lanicopter]

I think this is a throw-away thread anyway, does it matter if it's gone slightly off topic? Not like it's never happened before is it? As long as it stays clean and civil without peoples' knickers getting in a twist where's the harm?

[slurp]

Sorry Maz, Was'nt getting at you in any way. It just seems to me that the posters are now only posting to have the last word.

Okies hun. 

Yes Lanicopter, i will admit to getting my knickers in a twist just then, as i wrongly thought Gary was saying i was trying to get the last word in. God forbid if a female ever got the last word in amongst a bunch of men having a yarn 

[Windy]

If nobody at all had replied after Gary's post it would have put him in the position he spoke about 

[Patmac]

Okies hun. 

Yes Lanicopter, i will admit to getting my knickers in a twist just then, as i wrongly thought Gary was saying i was trying to get the last word in. God forbid if a female ever got the last word in amongst a bunch of men having a yarn 

...but you just have.

Doh   

[tomkfly]

...but you just have.

Doh   

No she hasn't. You just did and now I have, but I think it will eventually be Wiz

Tom

[flytilbroke]

I wish though that "rudders" was not mentioned, I got it strongly so Bobt is not alone. When a thread gets abusive, particularly when I become a target, I have been known to say >END<. That normally means I stop posting on the thread.

So outside of the fact that this forum is the growing baby of WIZ, I support him in getting to grips with any abuse.

[Wiz]

Could I just draw your attention to this thread ...

http://www.rcmf.co.uk/4um/index.php/topic,89706.0.html

This is a good example of a technically interesting topic that is going bad and it's going in a direction that many threads have gone before.  I think it's a shame when someone tries to post about something which I feel is quite clever and useful.  Remember - You, me and we are NOT the RC Police!

...also, this is in the Hitec part of the forum and I suspect the person replying had no idea which board he was posting in due to using "Show unread".  Just an observation.

[Yoyo]

Could I just draw your attention to this thread ...

http://www.rcmf.co.uk/4um/index.php/topic,89706.0.html

This is a good example of a technically interesting topic that is going bad and it's going in a direction that many threads have gone before.  I think it's a shame when someone tries to post about something which I feel is quite clever and useful.  Remember - You, me and we are NOT the RC Police!

Now I'm really puzzled... the startup post was a nice clear description of a module hacked to fit another tx. The question was asked about are we really allowed to do that, and the rest of the thread has discussed that amicably, including referring back to where it has been discussed before.

Are you saying that nothing can be discussed that has been discussed before at all? Or just things that went wrong in the past?

There doesn't seem to be much to be said about the conversion itself, other than well done, it's a nice neat hack. The interesting point to most users whenever that crops up is the one being discussed.

Maybe we need to build a Wiki that people can be referred to when previously discussed topics come up?

[Wiz]

It's a technical thread in the Hitec forum which will drift into the rights and wrongs of DIY modifications.  Surely you can see it's not an appropriate place for it?  If I was the original poster, I would have given up by now because he's being made to sound like an irresponsible maverick which I suspect he's not.

Why do we feel we need to be the RC police anyway?

[leccyflyer]

It's a technical thread in the Hitec forum which will drift into the rights and wrongs of DIY modifications.  Surely you can see it's not an appropriate place for it?  If I was the original poster, I would have given up by now because it sounds like he's being made to sound like an irresponsible maverick.

Isn;t that better than him labouring under the possible misapprehension that the radio is fully legal, properly insured and, in the event of an incident, that everything would be hunky dory? 

There's surely nothing wrong with pointing out the implications of such hack modifications and the responsibility that the modifier takes upon themselves. In fact, wasn;t it one of the subjects of the editorial in the last BMFA News?

It could be argued that such discussion could even form part of a question on a BMFA test. You're an examiner Wiz - wouldn;t there be a case for a legitimate question on the subject?

You, me or we might not be the RC Police, but we are supposed to be responsible RC modellers and some folks see it as important to inform others, who may not be fully aware, of the implications of such modifications.

[Wiz]

I give up.  Thank goodness the Wright Brothers didn't post their intentions on here before they set off in pursuit of powered flight - they would have gone home head in hands!

[SteveBB]

I agree Brian; if modellers don't keep their own houses in order (and we do to a great extent) it will be done for us.

I disagree Nigel about the hacking subject not a subject to be revisited again; for exactly the reasons about newbies joining. I am still non the wiser as to what if any mod becomes non viable from a legal POV., so surely when someone demonstrates their obvious technical expertise, it presents the opportunity for someone to have clarification, and if any obstacles have to be overcome, be able to ask how they address same?

Or does a technical thread get a link that will say something along the lines of  "for a full explanation as to what this XYZ means to you, click here but don't hijack the thread with non relevant questions"?

 I hope things don't go from one extreme to the other where it becomes dry as dust and absolutely no deviation from the topic title is tolerated. If it becomes such a place, then I'm afraid I can't see myself contributing to it. I'll probably get shot down now.

[Yoyo]

I give up.  Thank goodness the Wright Brothers didn't post their intentions on here before they set off in pursuit of powered flight - they would have gone home head in hands!

I'm genuinely trying to understand the issue here. Is it that the discussion isn't relevant to Hitec? Is it that it's been done to death before? Is it that it has moved on (unusually quickly) from the initial posting?

There are quite a few topics like this that come up over and over. We can't really claim to be an all encompassing RC forum if they are just banned outright, so what do you want to do about them? I still think a Wiki would be good, I'd be happy to help seed it if I'm not too far into the bad books already?

[Norfolk'n'Good]

Anyway, back to "Less busy posting but more watching - what's occurring?"

Perhaps the weather has something to do with not posting I know many people get down in the winter months so maybe the majority are just feeling down and don't fancy posting.  I feel the need less and less to post unless I see someone making a potentially catastrophic mistake in a choice or method they intend to apply.
Sometimes I post what may be seen as inappropriate messages giving a bit to much of myself, sometimes I write out a long reply to a thread only to delete it feeling it will be misinterpreted or worse still ignored.  Nothing worse than making a perfectly valid comment or sharing a thought and nobody taking any notice or even acknowledging you have posted/spoken.