[Erez]

I'm looking at the wing ribs and cannot see how they can possibly be correct.
The height of the front of the ribs seems quite random, no way they can produce a constant L.E. thickness at the centre section, and a clean taper of the L.E. thickness on the outboard panels...
So, was wondering if anyone else has noticed this and more important, how did you solve the problem?
(I seem to be rather unlucky with plans...everytime the plan is not by Brian Taylor, I end up fixing errors and redesigning major parts... )

[BrianB]

I'm fairly sure someone was doing a Dauntless build on here a while back Erez, but I can't remember who or where...... 

[antonnick]

Have been putting it togehter since 1998 - 14 year build to date but have returned this year to it.

The leading edge to the CS is formed from  (typical CAP ) a rather large and heavy balsa section which need careful sanding to shape. You are right that the plan section is not very helpful. I have a small arfix model to hand to help - the tail end contouring around the fin and tailplane is more problematical.

To achieve a smooth round LE  may need to be built up  more. mine is only rough planed at the moment.
I can post a pic or two at the end of the week when back home again, if that will be any help?

[Erez]

Thanks! a pic or two would be very much appreciated 

Main questions are - did you alter the height of the front of some of the ribs? and considering the CS1 rib that is right next to the R1 rib - that has a very tall front edge yet only ~1/4" balsa L.E. in front of it - so how do you get a sensible L.E. radius there? (I thought of adding material behind the L.E. to give something to carve and sand, but maybe the whole front of the rib needs to be reduced in height?).

[Seamus O'Leprosy]

I have the kit in the garage but am confused as to what you need, let me know if I can help.

[antonnick]

Sooooo Erez, here are a few pics , assuming they download ok . Having now looked at the plan in the flesh , so to speak I do not understand the problem anymore! The LE to the centre section is not a 6mm strip but a very substantial block. However , een this is not quite enough I think to round off around the combined CS1 rib R^1 but not an insurmountable problem.

any way

[Erez]

Thanks for the responses! Here are a few pics that I hope will better clarify my questions.

Just to be clear – all the parts are from an un-started laser cut kit (that I swapped for some time ago).
The kit was made by Belair and I have no complaints to them. On the contrary, the material is excellent and the parts match the plans perfectly.

The following pics show the wing ribs R1 to R10, aligned on the 1x1/8” sub L.E.. As can be seen (I think), there’s no way they will lead to a nicely tapering L.E. unless they will be heavily modified…





The following pics show the area where the outer end of the wing centre section (rib CS1) joins with the root end of the wing outer panel (rib R1). I made the centre section L.E. (1X1 1/8”) with the taper as shown on the plan however, I think it is obvious that there’s not enough material to produce a reasonably round L.E…





BTW IMO there’s a lot of unnecessary material and also some structural ‘nonsense’. I plan to make some modifications that I hope will help reduce the AUW.
I also noticed the fuselage side and top views differ by several inches in length…

[antonnick]

Having had a look at the rib sections on my rather battered plan I see now what you mean. However, I did build the wing and it does not seem too strange. Perhaps I built up the smaller ribs (R3 seems a culprit) but I do not remember. Rib R1/CS1 is married in anyway to suit the retract layout.

Did you see any of the other threads  on the CAP SBD here? "cliff" built one I know 'cos I have seen a pic and Wayne made a fantastic upgrade of the YT one. Have a search.

The CAP designs were renowned for being rather heavy as befits perhaps the reliability of radio in the 60's when it was designed. I am not bothering to make any amendments to mine other than to fit all 5 divebrake/flaps.

[Erez]

I think I solved the problem. Luckily I saved the carrier sheets so was able to glue back on some material with a perfect fit to the problematic ribs.
I then re-cut the front of some of the ribs and it seems now they follow better the  taper, but when I begin construction I will know for sure. At least the nicely cut laser parts have not gone to waste.

I studied some pics of finished models built from this plan. All have that rather un-scale 'squarish' L.E. in the area I pointed at, so I guess I will solve that during construction by adding some material inside the L.E. and shaping it all to a more rounded shape.

[Seamus O'Leprosy]

Oh the joy of building your own models :-)

[Erez]

Well, I finally gave up on this one...

I think in 30 years of building from plans it is the first time I decided that it is just not worth the effort.
Although the wing centre section somehow came out OK (still with a L.E. too thick) the outer wing panels were simply impossible.

All laser cut parts fit the plan 100%, but the resulting wing I considered to be unacceptable.
The spars follow a wave instead of a straight line (incorrectly placed notches) and the wing thickness does not taper at a constant rate at all, no matter how I tried to position everything. Looks like a free hand drawn wing.
All that effort and to end up with a wing that looks like an accident? no thanks 

I could re design it all (not to mention the fuselage that has different lengths in top and side view, and other issues) but as much as I wanted a Dauntles of this size, life is just too short and if I build from a plan I really do need it to be a reasonable one.

It seems the plan was redrawn at some point in time probably, but very significant errors crept in during that process...

I still have a nice canopy and cowl so if anyone knows of a nice plan or kit for this plane circa 68-70" span, I'd appreciate any info.

[half throttle]

I'm not really surprised Erez.

The last Traplet plan I bought was similar, the Supermarine Seagull.

I might as well have just used the outline and redesigned the rest myself. 

I've just designed a 36" span Fokker E111 and it's nice to have things actually fit.   

Paul

[stukno]

May be the CAP plans are of such an age that they ought to be laid to rest.  It also rather begs the question as to whether is is worth the expense of ANY laser cut parts from a hand draw plan.

stu k

[Erez]

May be the CAP plans are of such an age that they ought to be laid to rest.  It also rather begs the question as to whether is is worth the expense of ANY laser cut parts from a hand draw plan.

stu k

I agree.
My first experience was the C.A.P. P-47 (from their plan before it was available elsewhere) and not only were there zero mistakes on the plan, the model also flew really great.
Next I scratch built the C.A.P Swordfish (plan from Traplet), that had some issues with fuselage formers width but no problem to correct, and that too flew very well.

The Dauntless came already with laser cut parts as an exchange I made with someone, but if I were to consider laser cut parts I would have checked the plan very carefully before ordering (and then I would probably not have bothered).

I have taken a look at the Bates 85" span Dauntles version but it is beyond my budget, building, storing, and transporting abilities right now...

[dauntless]

Hi,
I do have an unstarted CAP Dauntless kit in my workshop. Your question prompted me to have a look at the ribs and the plan. Attached is a photo of my ribs straight from the sealed packet. They appear to follow a smooth and equal taper at the LE from R2 to R6.
When I checked them against the plan I find that R2 R3 and R4 are very different from the outline on the plan. Obviously CAP (I think it was Anglian Model Centre who made the later kits) must have known of this fault and used very different templetes to cut out the ribs for their kits!

So it seems the Taplet plan (like the one in the old kits) shows the wrong rib shapes!!
Don't know if this helps but it sheds a bit of light on the matter.
I do still indend to build my kit one day but will adapt as I go.
Regards
David

[Erez]

Yes, the ribs in your photo David do look correct.
Maybe Traplet are selling copies of the original plans with the wrong ribs, but it's a pity that Belair are selling laser kits that are made according to that plan 

Well, at least it doesn't seem like I forgot how to build a model airplane...

Anyway, I'm already into a different scratch building project.

BTW if you want a good deal on a spare cowl and canopy...

[antonnick]

Thanks for your post David - you have at least solved a mystery for me. I built the wing of my Dauntless without noticing any rib problem (it was sometime ago and is still not finished) and having read Erez comments, I assumed I bodged something to fit - it seems this was not now the case.
I did though - and this is not a fault of the plan but my head - make one wing 9mm longer one side that the other! Do not ask me how - I expect it is pure talent. The shorter side had to be cut off and a spacer inserted.