[Europhia Pete]

Hi all
I had an interesting conversation with a chap on Ivinghoe Beacon recently. He told me he had bought a Minivec with the certain knowledge that it would break its fuselage soon - and it had!
He repaired the fuselage with a piece of fishing rod blank inside the fus and a "cuff" of well wetted carbon cloth outside
He'd then NOT tried to conceal the repair but painted the cuff black to blend in, and become part of, the black and yellow colour scheme and left it at that
He said he knew that people would come up to him and say "Oh yours broke there too?" but, was prepared for that by saying YES it's their typefault, its where they ALWAYS break so I've just allowed for it
Something I did back in the eighties when I owned a Facctor 2M which broke at the base on the leading edge of the fin where the fuselage cross section was smallest -EVERY time!
Problems don't change - just the names, it seems.....
Pete

[Allen the soarer]

Not really sure what the topic is about

They all break
it's just a question of when, where and why

I would not be able to deal with this hobby if I had not excepted I am going to break them, I just try to delay the inevitable for as long as possible and except that repairing them is as much as a hobby as making them, I guess the problem is that people don't make them any more

I have to admit the fact my Minivec broken on it's maiden was enough to make me realise that the cost saving was not worth choosing again.
I admit it was my fault and had it been a "perfect landing" she would have been fine, but I caught a little turbulence while hovering a foot of the ground
but it was an easy repair and I moved on, when it eventually BLOW UP and the spars were unrecognisable I decided to have bespoke wings made and to sand the fuse right back till it barely stayed together and use it a the skeleton for a new and improved model, out of the ashes came........ nothing coz it's not finished yet   

[satinet]

Hi all
I had an interesting conversation with a chap on Ivinghoe Beacon recently. He told me he had bought a Minivec with the certain knowledge that it would break its fuselage soon - and it had!
He repaired the fuselage with a piece of fishing rod blank inside the fus and a "cuff" of well wetted carbon cloth outside
He'd then NOT tried to conceal the repair but painted the cuff black to blend in, and become part of, the black and yellow colour scheme and left it at that
He said he knew that people would come up to him and say "Oh yours broke there too?" but, was prepared for that by saying YES it's their typefault, its where they ALWAYS break so I've just allowed for it
Something I did back in the eighties when I owned a Facctor 2M which broke at the base on the leading edge of the fin where the fuselage cross section was smallest -EVERY time!
Problems don't change - just the names, it seems.....
Pete

If you are going to build a mini vec you want to build in strength from the start.
e.g.

install the ballast tube
formers as far back as poss.
formers across the canopy gap (obviously)
reinforce incidence pin holes inside

etc.

[Allen the soarer]

reinforce the wings
the control horns
the boom just in front of the tail 

I think it's cheaper to buy another fuse and just throw them away as they break

After all I think that's the mentality of mass produced crap for the masses

[bobt]

reinforce the wings
the control horns
the boom just in front of the tail 

I think it's cheaper to buy another fuse and just throw them away as they break

After all I think that's the mentality of mass produced Carp for the masses

I find this a very odd thread, Allen. If it is inevitable that the fuselage breaks, would it not be prudent to strengthen while building it in order to prevent this happening? Am I missing something here?

[Allen the soarer]

I find this a very odd thread, Allen. If it is inevitable that the fuselage breaks, would it not be prudent to strengthen while building it in order to prevent this happening? Am I missing something here?

Personally I would buy something else  lol and I have

It seems very odd to me that you would buy one in the first place if you knew it was not strong enough for what you wanted, everywhere I look I see unhappy customers with RCRCM
It makes me laugh how somehow this always turns out to be the customers fault in these threads.
Damn stupid customers 

But as I have bits of one kicking about me shed I thought I would make a project out of it, I like a good project

[satinet]

Allen,

I don't think it is the customers' fault and I generally agree with you regarding RCRCM.

However, if someone decides to buy an RCRCM plane and knows about the potential problems, then they should either be prepared to take preventative action or to fix it when it does break.

The "problem" with RCRCM planes is that they have been sold widely to all sorts of people in large numbers, so it is probably not a great surprise that a number get broken, pure on statistical probability alone.

Like I've said before have you or anyone else seen a jaro muller elita that hasn't had a broken boom behind the wing seat (probably there are some). If there were 500 elitas about everyone might be saying Jaro Mueller is a poor builder...

As I said on other threads cheap euro (especially 60 inch) mouldies often weren't/aren't exactly a picnic to own in terms of fuselage strength either. There are a lot more sunbirds, typhoon and mini vectors about than there are shooting stars, mini acacias and mini ellipses.

Take X-models - it's obvious to anyone who has seen some of them that many of them are bendier than non euro standard banana, yet they continue to supply a joiner that is basically w*nk. Take your own sword DS which you would not want (if you can get it) in a 2 piece wing. 

Plenty of faults out there.

T

[Allen the soarer]

Allen,

I don't think it is the customers' fault and I generally agree with you regarding RCRCM.

However, if someone decides to buy an RCRCM plane and knows about the potential problems, then they should either be prepared to take preventative action or to fix it when it does break.

The "problem" with RCRCM planes is that they have been sold widely to all sorts of people in large numbers, so it is probably not a great surprise that a number get broken, pure on statistical probability alone.

Like I've said before have you or anyone else seen a jaro muller elita that hasn't had a broken boom behind the wing seat (probably there are some). If there were 500 elitas about everyone might be saying Jaro Mueller is a poor builder...

As I said on other threads cheap euro (especially 60 inch) mouldies often weren't/aren't exactly a picnic to own in terms of fuselage strength either. There are a lot more sunbirds, typhoon and mini vectors about than there are shooting stars, mini acacias and mini ellipses.

Take X-models - it's obvious to anyone who has seen some of them that many of them are bendier than non euro standard banana, yet they continue to supply a joiner that is basically w*nk. Take your own sword DS which you would not want (if you can get it) in a 2 piece wing. 

Plenty of faults out there.

T

I hate to have to agree with you Tom    but I do
They do do a 2m sword with a 2 piece wing and I would not have bought it
But The quality for the £££ of an Xmodels model is WAY better but this is due to using the same wing mould (all be it a good one) of the last 20 years lol
not buy supplying Carp, the reason for the bendy joiner IMO is not coz they like it to bend before the wing but in fact coz they dont want to change the wing (increased cost and hassle)
To be fair to RCRM they are relatively new and are still learning as they go along, in the next couple of years I expect great things from them as long as they learn to evolve

[James Hammond]

I hate to have to agree with you Tom    but I do
They do do a 2m sword with a 2 piece wing and I would not have bought it
But The quality for the £££ of an Xmodels model is WAY better but this is due to using the same wing mould (all be it a good one) of the last 20 years lol
not buy supplying Carp, the reason for the bendy joiner IMO is not coz they like it to bend before the wing but in fact coz they dont want to change the wing (increased cost and hassle)
To be fair to RCRM they are relatively new and are still learning as they go along, in the next couple of years I expect great things from them as long as they learn to evolve

"To be fair to RCRM they are relatively new and are still learning as they go along, in the next couple of years I expect great things from them as long as they learn to evolve"

Make no mistake Allen - they know exactly what they are doing when making fuselages - unless they are evolving to be deaf dumb and blind.

I have not only told them how to make good fuselages - I have actually shown them. They choose not to.

They are evolving - commercially.

[Allen the soarer]

"To be fair to RCRM they are relatively new and are still learning as they go along, in the next couple of years I expect great things from them as long as they learn to evolve"

Make no mistake Allen - they know exactly what they are doing when making fuselages - unless they are evolving to be deaf dumb and blind.

I have not only told them how to make good fuselages - I have actually shown them. They choose not to.

They are evolving - commercially.

But we all agree their/your models fly Amazing they just dont take ANY abuse of any kind

I hear what you are saying (they want things to break) but this is only short term commercially evaluation and will end in ether no business or change

[satinet]

I hate to have to agree with you Tom    but I do
They do do a 2m sword with a 2 piece wing and I would not have bought it
But The quality for the £££ of an Xmodels model is WAY better but this is due to using the same wing mould (all be it a good one) of the last 20 years lol
not buy supplying Carp, the reason for the bendy joiner IMO is not coz they like it to bend before the wing but in fact coz they dont want to change the wing (increased cost and hassle)
To be fair to RCRM they are relatively new and are still learning as they go along, in the next couple of years I expect great things from them as long as they learn to evolve

i've always thought that the whole models were soft and bendy to be honest, but there you go.

[Allen the soarer]

i've always thought that the whole models were soft and bendy to be honest, but there you go.

My Whisper was good but unable to give it a squish as I dont have it any more

This 1.9DS is as tough as old boots but maybe it is a different layup 

[Bustergrunt]

I love my 2 piece 2.5m Sword 

[feefo]

I'd rather pay a little more and get a fuse that was stronger, but I doubt it would be made as strong as I would like anyway. With lots of models having a fixed stab on the fuse, it rules out a full socking job, as you could have done with say a Mini Dragon or Banana (Banana's fuse equally as carp as ANY RCRCM fuse I've owned). The Flying Fish is pretty fragile too, but simple jobs soon beef it up, and socking is poss because of the bolt on wing, but it's got the fixed stab.

It's a shame that plug on wings make socking a fuse pretty difficult to do (for me anyway), and the fixed stab comes into play again on the SB, Typhoon, MV, Flying Fish. If I had the bottle (talent)  I'd sock any of those from new just to save the aggro further down the line. But they're still great models for the £££ IMO (Typhoon's a little expensive now tho, T9's offer excluded)

[Bustergrunt]

Eh? I thought the FF had a bolt on tail...

[feefo]

Eh? I thought the FF had a bolt on tail...

It has, but I'm referring to the vert stab on these models

[James Hammond]

But we all agree their/your models fly Amazing they just dont take ANY abuse of any kind

I hear what you are saying (they want things to break) but this is only short term commercially evaluation and will end in ether no business or change

Problem Is Allen that Zoom Models (RCRCM) always think they can do exactly as they want, when they want and to whom they want, and the flyer/buyer - even the distributor will just grin and bear it.

This also unfortunately applies to the designer(s)

As an exmple, RCRCM up thier own online store OLERC after carefuly agreeing with their exclusive distributors that they would do nothing of the kind.

The things I was promised by Zoom are far too many to ennumerate here but suffice it to say that not one came to pass.

Practically they cannot last for ever producing model sailplanes. They were talking about making TOQ power planes a few years back but again no designer would work with them. 

Thier design larder is running out/has run out and though I thank you very sincerely for the very kind remarks about my designs, they can't sell the same old stuff for ever.

I dont think anyone who knows the situation and what has passed with me will work with them in the future, even if its just for (The entirly justified) fear that thier honestly intended designs will eventually be let down by the manufacturing quality - just as mine are now by RCRCM.

Happily, if anything, Tony Fu at Sloperacer cares even more than I do that our new planes are not only fit for purpose, but also a joy to contstruct and fly.

From our part, its a new departure for myself and for Sloperacer, but I am sure that we can at least do an HONEST job of designing and making the planes - and that in fact was my only intention when working with RCRCM.

We all know what happened to that naively noble notion unfortunately.

Still time passes - I want to hear what you guys think of the new planes coming!

Cheers and thanks again for the nice comments.

James

[wdeighton]

I know I can choose to read or not, but this banging on about rcrcm is getting very boaring.
Cant we find something else to complain about.
                                                               Or Even Better, Lets find something Else to RAVE about!

[slopeflyer]

I know I can choose to read or not, but this banging on about rcrcm is getting very boaring.
Cant we find something else to complain about.
                                                               Or Even Better, Lets find something Else to RAVE about!

I rave about my alpina. A real classic that.

[MOORSLOPE]

Hi all
I had an interesting conversation with a chap on Ivinghoe Beacon recently. He told me he had bought a Minivec with the certain knowledge that it would break its fuselage soon - and it had!
He repaired the fuselage with a piece of fishing rod blank inside the fus and a "cuff" of well wetted carbon cloth outside
He'd then NOT tried to conceal the repair but painted the cuff black to blend in, and become part of, the black and yellow colour scheme and left it at that
He said he knew that people would come up to him and say "Oh yours broke there too?" but, was prepared for that by saying YES it's their typefault, its where they ALWAYS break so I've just allowed for it
Something I did back in the eighties when I owned a Facctor 2M which broke at the base on the leading edge of the fin where the fuselage cross section was smallest -EVERY time!
Problems don't change - just the names, it seems.....
Pete

buy models you know won't buy,,,,,,   D60's. D40's. That's my opinion or a pace Vxh

[feefo]

buy models you know won't buy,,,,,,   D60's. D40's. That's my opinion or a pace Vxh

Trouble is Mark, people don't want to/can't afford to/can't justify a D60 or VXH, and the D40 is seen as a little small for a lot of people. Someone moving up from EPP is less likely to invest £600 on a well kitted out D60 when they can get a MV airbourne for £350. It might be better that they did, but unlikely they will. Besides, tear arsing about might not be their thing either, which is why they want something more acro  .

[James Hammond]

I rave about my alpina. A real classic that.

Seconded on that Jim - certainly a classic among classics, great looking and a really fantastic flyer too.

I am really so tempted to make a 4 M plane - maybe next year...

They are just "Different" to fly I think, but I dont know what.

Fantastic plane, and I wish I had one.

JH

[slopeflyer]

Seconded on that Jim - certainly a classic among classics, great looking and a really fantastic flyer too.

I am really so tempted to make a 4 M plane - maybe next year...

They are just "Different" to fly I think, but I dont know what.

Fantastic plane, and I wish I had one.

JH

Now that I am really looking forward too...
Fully moulded alpina. I'd better get saving.
Don't make the mistake of just making a 4m mouldie that looks like all the rest. Oh and you'll need a fat fuz.
Are you up to the challenge?