RCMF

Level 1 => Electric Flight Technical => Topic started by: Wiz on February 26, 2004, 12:29:57 pm

Title: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Wiz on February 26, 2004, 12:29:57 pm
Continued from Leccy Lanc V1111 (should have been 1X !)
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on February 26, 2004, 15:38:42 pm
Thought I'd christen the new thread.....ah well another day off due to snow, poor me, just got to go and do some more modelling after making the obligatory snowman with my daughter.  Wot a life  ;D
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Tree_Magnet on February 26, 2004, 16:16:54 pm
Dam gordon, you beat me to it   ;D

Tom
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on February 26, 2004, 20:11:00 pm
QuoteContinued from Leccy Lanc V1111 (should have been 1X !)  
....ahem u mean ix WIZ  ;D ;D ;D  still better than V V centurion  ;D

Weather's awful, hope the school's closed tomorrow, need the time to keep modelling!  ;)
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: BalsaDust on February 26, 2004, 20:41:50 pm
Hi guys,
just weighed my wing  .... comes in at 1.62Kg.

Thats with the two HS-101 MG servos for the ailerons, 4 motors/GB's, retracts & wheels, with SD200 retract servo all the plumbing and of course the balsa, solarfilm & paint !

The ESC & battery are in the fuz

Any one got a lighter wing ??

regards
BalsaDust
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: CraigO on February 26, 2004, 23:10:07 pm
morning all

perhaps, inkeeping with the previous roman numera miss numbering, this thread should be IXI  ? :o

I will weigh my foam wing tonight for yaz all. :)

gordon wot you mean nearly fried your ESC? You thought that one had slipper throught to the keeper without anyone noticing :P  but im on the case and kicking bottom!  wadidyado hu hu hu hu ! ;)

I cant talk i still havent looked at why my rudders dont go!

cheers all

Craig
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Arel on February 27, 2004, 08:01:56 am
I just weighed my wing....350g....

Of course I still have to add the motors/gearboxes/props/nacelles/servos/wintips/covering/retracts/wheels etc...

:) ;D
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Dek on February 27, 2004, 09:06:23 am
Decals

Won't add much weight to the wing but that's not the point of this note!

I'm trying to use JETCAL paper to produce the markings for the Lanc. but am finding it looks rather too much like paper glued on rather than a paint job. Has anyone had better luck with this stuff?

Derek
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on February 27, 2004, 09:35:40 am
Craig..just a case of being half asleep and cross connecting the ESC...caught it just in time.  Functioned it and it still whines as advertised...must had had a diode in the circuit..phew   ;D

Dek....still to use the stuff sorry.

BD....u win, even with your ESC in the fuselage  ;D

Got my wish...schools closed for a second day...more modelling....feel as smug as BD and Craig after their maiden flights  ;D
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Arel on February 27, 2004, 10:52:47 am
Dek,

I haven't used JETCAL to make decals...then again I'm not quite at that stage :)...But I did see some decal sheet at a lhs recently.....................Unfortunately it was about $25 a pack for two sheets of, at best 8x4'. I don't know if it works or not...but at that price if it doesn't work I'd be asking for my money back ;)

I'm going to use the circle cutter method to produce the roundels, and probably freehand/exacto blade the markings. I've used this method before and it really does work. It helps to have a few (but not too many :)) drinks to steady the hands of course..

Rich
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Dek on February 27, 2004, 11:50:18 am
Jetcal is now called lazertran.
I had another look at their website and..... hmmmmmm
could it possibly be?
Surely not?
Am I printing on the wrong side of the paper?

I'll let you know

Derek
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on February 27, 2004, 18:46:39 pm
Quotecould it possibly be?  Surely not? Am I printing on the wrong side of the paper?
...and with me nearly cooking my ESC I'd maybe better lay off the turps methinks! (until I make up my decals!!!).
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Dek on February 28, 2004, 18:15:46 pm
Quote from: Dek on February 27, 2004, 11:50:18 am

Am I printing on the wrong side of the paper?
I'll let you know


Yup!!

That was the answer

Derek
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on February 28, 2004, 18:44:16 pm
Dek..thanks for reassuring me that I'm not the only one who c%"£$ks up when modelling!
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Dek on February 29, 2004, 08:04:37 am
Jetcal / Lazertran

Jetcal instructions say "print on the white side". - Both sides look pretty white to me.
Lazertran instruction say " print on the side with the slight greenish tinge" - can't see it.
One side does seem to be slightly smoother than the other.
I'm now printing BOTH sides to be safe and avoid wasting any more of this rather pricey paper.

Derek
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on February 29, 2004, 17:41:09 pm
Hi Dek et al...quiet this last week or so, where is everyone lately?  

Dek, all I can say is that your hassle will help everyone on the thread ('oh how noble of me' I hear Dek say  ;D ).  I'll be at that stage in about 8 weeks, so your hassles are being WELL noted by yours truly.  I'm still working on the ailerons and should be ready for skinning the top of the mainplane in a day or so (got a gut feeling I don't have enough 1/16" sheet!)  I'll take a pic before starting to show the final layout.      
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Dek on February 29, 2004, 18:31:26 pm
Hi Gordon
I've started PAINTING !!!

All of the black underside is complete and I've got the first coat camo. on top sides. There's one decal on the side to see how the Jetcal works. I've indulged myself in a set of three bladed props for the static display, the crew are ready to get aboard and it looks the business!

I was determined to be ready for the club show on March 24th and I'm going to make it. Only 14 months from start to finish, (Tony N reckoned a fortnight didn't he?)

Derek
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on February 29, 2004, 22:05:54 pm
QuoteTony N reckoned a fortnight didn't he?)
...Too true Dek, u wonder what these people do for a living?  I can see me still being busy on this model in the summer and of course SHMBO has revoked my flying certificate for the lanc until the November model fair is over!  

Dek are u covering your lanc or is it sealed surface with cammo?

Now Dek the obvious thing to ask is PICS PICS PICS !  Here's 2 showing my final setup before sheeting the top wing.  Second one on next page.  This setup shows the servos being fed from the battery pack (not fitted in pic, with modified Tamiya connector using gold connectors at top of pic).  

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on February 29, 2004, 22:14:46 pm
Here's the last pic showing the aileron assembly and the output rod (decided on plastic rather than metal clevises, as it's a slow speed model).  

Oh, just remembered, the trailing edge looks battered and it is!  However, I glued strips of birch ply along the trailing edge, so that the upper and lower skins have a hard edge to finish on.  I think that will allow the model to be more robust to 'hanger rash'?  (needs to be in my garage!  ;D ).

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Tree_Magnet on March 01, 2004, 03:30:41 am
Hey Gordon whats that circuit card on the servo?

TOm
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: CraigO on March 01, 2004, 09:48:34 am
Hi all

Well i thought i had better weigh my foamie wing and the answer is 1.5 kg's that is everything.  ie air tank and retract control, speed controller, retract servo, aileron servos, 4 motors, boxes, props, spinners, retracts, wheels, heck there was even some air in the tank!

I took mine to the field on the weekend (sounds like a song doesnt it), when i got there, it was perfect, almost no wind and a very pleasant 26 degrees.  a bunch of my club mates were filling some of the bigger the cracks in the ground outside the watered areas with sand, so i thought i should help.   well a couple of hours later when we finshed there was a whole lot more people there and the wind was up to 15 knots so i put everyting back in the car and went home.  A goiod day eh,  at least i didnt break anything!

cheers all and KEEP BUILDING!!

wings of the mozzie are about 1/3 done!

Cheers

Craig
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on March 01, 2004, 12:07:19 pm
Hi guys...TM...that circuit board is actually a leadlock connector to stop the pins floating free over time (does look like a circuit board come to think of it  ;D ).

craig...1.5kg for a foamie wing...that about 0.15kg less than the balsa equivalent...interesting!
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: BalsaDust on March 01, 2004, 12:25:44 pm
Hi guys,
thanks for that Craig ..... agree with you Gordon, I was expecting something lighter ....

OK - how heavy is the fuselage then .... ( less battery pack)

regards
BalsaDust
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on March 01, 2004, 13:13:02 pm
BD...is that a challenge thrown open to us lesser mortals or Craig alone?  U know I'm going to win this one?  ('cos u traditional builders have to add on your fixed tail assemblies don't u?). Uh Uh!   ;D 8)  
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on March 01, 2004, 20:26:18 pm
The challenge...fuselage with cockpit and turrets, with a sheet of balsa for the top skin to do = 0.425Kg.  

Et Tu BD?  ;)  ::)
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: BalsaDust on March 01, 2004, 21:40:05 pm
QuoteEt Tu BD?


780 gms .....

Thats complete with SD200's for rudders, elevator and tailwheel, JR mini Rx, 300mAh Rx battery, ESC

Hhmmm - looks like I've found that extra weight. But what to do about it ?

regards
Balsadust
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: CraigO on March 01, 2004, 23:23:16 pm
hi all

Not at home to weigh mine at the moment, but i will do tonight.

gordon what does yours weigh when you add back in the removable empenage?  2 servos a tail wheel and the other stuff. structure etc i would think in the order of another 200- 250gms.  or something like that?

I have finally got my tail wheel working. Dang nabit if it wasnt something intermittent in the servo itself.  fortunately i had a spare i could use.

finished the ailerons, and the flaps for the left wing,  and started the right wing structure, for the new mozzie.  SHMBO went to Yoga last night ;)

cheers all

Craig
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on March 02, 2004, 09:09:30 am
BD & Craig...it's an uneven contest, as Craig pointed out if I add the tail assembly it will certainly be heavier than BDs total.  I'll do that tonight.  I was still unhappy with the clenching effect of my retract grub screws, so I tapped the threads on the aluminium castings on the Eurokits and they are perfect now....Eurokit owners please note!

Now working on skinning the top wing and finishing the ailerons.

Here's a techie question.  If I used the Rx battery in it's correct position and the ESC (no wires isolated) in position 3, where it works as advertised, would that not just leave the power pack to power the motors as I want?
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: BalsaDust on March 02, 2004, 11:12:41 am
Hi guys,
I have inadvertently run my Rx just like that Gordon - with no apparent problems ....

However, I wouldn't reccomend it. There is (warning pun imminent !) potential for the two power sources to fight one another - that is to say one would drain the other if their voltages are out of balance ... this effect would not drain either source to anywhere near zero though.

A diode could be fitted in each power feed to stop this effect, but the best solution is to isolate the Rx power feed from the ESC in the throttle connector and rely on the separate Rx NiCd.

regards
BalsaDust
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on March 02, 2004, 12:49:50 pm
Thanks once again Guru!  Will experiment with that setup once I get home.  ;)
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on March 02, 2004, 23:20:56 pm
Ok BD, here's the result of an unusual nights work.

1.  Rx battery fitted, ESC on/off switch found to be inoperative.  Rx battery removed, ESC on/off switch worked as advertised. (System worked with Rx battery and Power pack fitted).

2.  All ESC wires isolated in turn, ESC didn't work in any wire configuration.

3.  ESC fitted to Rx with no Rx battery, worked as advertised.

And so the night wore on.... ???

Restrictor fitted to 'up' line of retracts and nipped to just about closed....still retracted like the clappers!  Found that the newer retract I bought recently needs more pressure to lock up, so to get both up I've decided to keep to slamming up speed.  Not scale, but I'd like both wheels inside their wheel bays (when I've made them!).  Found that I can get 5 cycles of the undercarriage from one full tank.

Now as for the tail assembly weight.....must do that soon.

Regards from Bemused of Moray.
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: CraigO on March 02, 2004, 23:52:10 pm
I agree with BD

if you are running a 4 cell receiver pack then it is a 4.8 V suply to the servos etc.  by not pulling the red wire from the ESC it will also be supplying power to the system but it may be at a different voltage, you would need to check the details on the ESC  from the supplier.  

I would be very uneasy with deliberately leaving both sources available.  there are also other things you could do.  if you dont want to runa separate receiver pack you could get a USB that would draw power from your flight pack to supply the receiver and servos that has a muvh higher capability than that of the ESC.    these arent too expensive and means that for a few grams you get the current supply equivalent to a separate receiver pack but you dont need to remember to keep it charged etc..


i forgot to weigh my fuz last night sorry.  I will do it tonight.  I did however get a fair bit of assembly done on the right wing of the new Mozz

Craig
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on March 03, 2004, 00:07:04 am
Thanks for that info Craig.  I think in the medium term I'm tempted to upgrade my power pack and use the setup without the Rx battery.  BDs 3000MAh pack seems to stick in my mind and LiPo is just too much cash now that I've spend cash on a decent NiMH charger  >:(

Craig...have u thought of starting a Mossie thread, u would be assured of one regular viewer each day!  ;D  Sounds a nice model to do.  

Tail weight with 2 servos, tail wheel and linkages was 205 grammes.  So the fuselage and tail together (425 + 205) should be hovering around 630 grammes excluding that power pack.  Add on the wing at 1.65Kg and without the power pack that would make my lanc about 2.28Kg?  Convert that to real money and it's a fraction over 5 Lbs.  What u make of that NPJ?  Overweight lanc indeed!!!
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: CraigO on March 03, 2004, 08:59:17 am
hi All

I promised i would weigh my fuz and the magic number is......

509gms,  that is 2 servos in the tail, receiver and cabling ie everthing that wasnt in the wing except the flight battery

not too shabby eh!!!

I would start a mozzie thread but i havent got a digital camera to make it worth while.    :'(

anyway

cheers  all

Craig

Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: keithatrochdale on March 03, 2004, 09:12:04 am
Craig

Have you thought of getting a Web Cam?

Not the best pictures, but if used in good lighting conditions might be worth considering, not expensive either.

keith  8)
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Tree_Magnet on March 03, 2004, 12:51:21 pm
No leave the web cam on and we can see your progression  :)

Tom
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on March 03, 2004, 12:57:46 pm
A live lanc build...now that would be interesting!  ;D
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: BalsaDust on March 03, 2004, 14:51:44 pm
And we'd have 24hr coverage with Craig & Arel down under ....

The thread could be ...

"I'm a squadron leader - get me out of here!!"
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on March 03, 2004, 15:02:36 pm
Very drole BD.... ;D ;D ;D ;D

How about 'Turps on Tap?'
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: DIPSY on March 03, 2004, 17:53:36 pm
OK Just to keep you happy Gordon.....Hullo !! ;D ;D ;D Got my wood and cowls etc, still waiting on the plan. Where should I buy my motors, gearboxes and props from ?

Dave
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on March 03, 2004, 21:01:35 pm
Hi Dipsy....wondered when u would come and say hi.   ;D  I think the best place to buy your stuff would be Galaxy models in Ipswich.  As I'm in the Highlands, they were quick and knew exactly what I was after (even the gearbox I needed recently was sent in 2 days!).  They're at www.galaxymodels.co.uk

Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: DIPSY on March 03, 2004, 21:36:57 pm
Cheers Gordon,
I've used them before and I agree they are very good, got my stuff next day.

I don't mean to be thick (quiet in the cheap seats) but why did I see a pic of someone running in a motor in water ?
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Dek on March 04, 2004, 07:50:15 am
Aaaaaaarrrrggghhhhh!

Bad news and good news.

The bad news is that it's the big 60 for me today, (thanks for the cake Wiz). The good news is that SHMBO has ordered a very nice digital camera for me which should arrive early next week, so finally a few pics of my Lanc.

Derek
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Dek on March 04, 2004, 11:56:03 am
Hey,
She was holding out on me. The camera arrived about an hour after the previous message!
Now how do I reduce the picture size to below 50Kb? I'm sure this has been thoroughly described on this thread at least a couple of times before so I just need to start hunting.

Derek
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: keithatrochdale on March 04, 2004, 12:03:04 pm
Try using the SEARCH button................  ;D

keith  8)

Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Dek on March 04, 2004, 12:10:31 pm
(http://rcmf.co.uk/old-uploads/Bits1.jpg)
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Dek on March 04, 2004, 12:11:47 pm
Thanks Keith.

"Offley" in case you wondered is the location of our club field.

Derek
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Tree_Magnet on March 04, 2004, 13:08:04 pm
Happy bday Dek
nice looking lanc. hey 5 years to retire and full time flying?

Tom
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on March 04, 2004, 13:20:03 pm
Dek...happy birthday...as TM said only 5 years to full time flying.  That lanc looks GOOD, VERY GOOD.  I love the nose art...how did u do it?
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Dek on March 04, 2004, 16:07:39 pm
Hi Gordon

I used CorelDraw to produce letters with a border and then printed it onto Jetcal Paper to create the transfers. Worked beautifully once I started printing on the right side of the paper!

Derek
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: CraigO on March 05, 2004, 00:11:33 am
Hippo Birdy 2 Ewes Dek.

Lovely looking lanc.  

that reminds me i havent spent my Xmas money yet.  perhaps that is the source of a little digital for me.

Sob, moan,  No building last night!!!

I just found out that there are 2 more lancs being built in SA.  both the full wood.   :o :o  so to speak.  not foamies like humble little me.  So i can get some squadron formation time in.  I will check on their progress and see if I cant get the 3 together  ;D

cheers

Craig
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Dek on March 05, 2004, 08:17:25 am
Thanks for the B'day greetings guys.

The Lanc was dutifully admired by all the partygoers last night, we nearly set fire to the house with 60 candles on the cake, the hangover is coming along nicely, and now - back to the shed where I belong!

Derek
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Arel on March 05, 2004, 08:34:57 am
Ahhhhh....

It's like I never left...Craig's on the turps :) and Gordon has progressed ever so much :)love and kisses all round XOXOXO etc ;D

What ever happened to those bad old days of slagging off certain kilt wearers for making mistakes with the colouring of their 303 barrels? ;D ;D

I actually made a little progress with my Lanc last week. I made up all my motor mounts to allow the motors/gearboxes to fit correctly (I hope) and my UC mounts (Mk4) are ready.

MHR Dek...The Lanc looks great.

Rich
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on March 05, 2004, 12:50:08 pm
Who's this guy Arel then?  New boy?  ;D ;D ;D;D

As the wing sheeting is crawling forward I thought I'd better get the Litspan and BalsaLoc out to practise on, so the ailerons will get covered first in a day or so.

BD, just been looking at 3000MAh packs and as your circuit needs 14.4volts, Overlander do them for £54.95 and weigh in at 683 grammes...ouch!  :o  Did u say yours was 3300MAh?  Overlander don't seem to do that size and Inwoods do a 3300MAh but only as a 12 volt pack!  ???  

Dek...is your smashing looking model painted or covered and painted?

PS...just did a quick calculation.  With a huge 3000MAh battery fitted, my lanc will weight very close to 2.96Kg, or 6 1/2 Lbs in old money!  Overweight?  Nope, just close to BDs weight methinks?  Where is NPJ now....p%$£d off to the DAK thread before I collar him for saying my lanc was overweight!  ;D
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Dek on March 06, 2004, 06:56:41 am
Quote from: Gordon on March 05, 2004, 12:50:08 pm

Dek...is your smashing looking model painted or covered and painted?


It's covered with tissue, sealed with dope and painted in the old traditional method.

Derek
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Arel on March 06, 2004, 08:25:48 am
Dek,

I see you've got three bladed props...What are the specs of your motor/gbox/props?

Gordon,

Not new, just busy. Can you imagine the gall of my company...they give me a nice pay rise and a big bonus...so far so good...But, and this is the kicker, they expect me to work at least 6 hours a day...that's even more than a teacher does ;D. The boss actually rings EVERY MORNING at 8.30 to see what I'm up to...Back in the good old days I'd just be getting up :)

Cheers

Rich
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on March 06, 2004, 14:09:23 pm
Arel, I teach 6x55 minute periods on a bad day  ;)  So that's 5.5 hours actually!  ;D I only have one bad day each week!  8)

Yeah, Dek, like the props..are they useable or for display?

Top sheeting now done, began gluing it this afternoon...so u see Arel I can progress my lanc!  ;D
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Dek on March 07, 2004, 07:20:32 am
Quote from: Arel on March 06, 2004, 08:25:48 am

I see you've got three bladed props...What are the specs of your motor/gbox/props?



The motors are 7.2v speed 400s driving Aeronaut 2.64 : 1 gearboxes and 8 by 6 props (2 bladed). Initial flights will be tried with a single 8 cell battery as per the original Nihuis spec. but I've built space in the bomb bay for a second battery and ESC so I can have separate supplies for inboard and outboard motors.
The three bladed props are really for display but are also 8 by 6 so I will give them a try to see what sort of thrust they give.

Derek
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Dek on March 07, 2004, 16:43:59 pm
(http://rcmf.co.uk/old-uploads/Crew1a.jpg)
The crew are looking a bit haggard but are ready to go!

Derek
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on March 07, 2004, 17:41:38 pm
Dek...for Gawd sakes don't show the colour of your aircrew boots to Arel.   ;D ;D ;D  Looking good ma man!  

Got my upper sheeting trailing edges glued yesterday...slow but getting there.  

Dipsy.....thanks again for the Lancaster ISBN....will chase that up very soon, since I need some good colour prints to fiddle with for the 'Spirit of Russia's' decals.

I've a couple of 6 cell 2400MAh packs I'll use, but need a duration check or three to see how they will do.  Still looking at a 14.4V pack when I can cough up the cash.
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: DIPSY on March 07, 2004, 18:18:02 pm
Gordon,
You might as well post the details I sent you of the Lancaster book.
I'm sure some of the other guys would be interested.

Dipsy
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Dek on March 07, 2004, 19:17:17 pm
Barry of 'Mainly Models', which is my local shop in Hitchin has just finished his prototype all foam 10ft Lanc. He's taking orders for the kit now and fool that I am,  I'm tempted!

Derek
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on March 07, 2004, 20:34:25 pm
Quotefool that I am,  I'm tempted!
.   I'm sure it is Dek, but only u know where u stand regarding this hobby.  Are u more inclined to fly them or build them?  If it's the former...buy the foamie!

PS...this model has also cost me a b^%$£dy fortune...that might be another reason...intelligence!  ;D
As dipsy mentioned, here's his recommended book for the discerning Lanc freak: THE AVRO LANCASTER' 'A COMPREHENSIVE GUIDE FOR THE MODELLER' by Richard A. Franks ISBN 0-9533465-3-6.

Here is my patented wing sheeting method.  NB.....to get a good glue grab, u must use BEEF sausages otherwise any vegan or vegetarian crud just WON'T do.

And for Gawd's sake get the stuff back in the freezer before SHMBO gets home  ;)

PPS....second modification...change the frozen food for orange juice cartons...much more direct pressure and they don't defrost...SHMBO happy...the world is happy!  ;D





[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on March 08, 2004, 23:24:04 pm
Hi Guys..busy time but not on the lanc....radiator leaked into the hallway carpet, so carpet, radiator and underlay trashed and removed this evening.  Managed to glue another sheet onto the top of the wing, so only 2 to do then some fun and games sanding it down  ;)

Dipsy...priced that lanc book on Amazon...£14.99 + £1.99 (for a hard to get fee?) +P&P.
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: DIPSY on March 08, 2004, 23:37:22 pm
Have you managed to view the pics I sent ?  Amazon just sent me a note saying the book I ordered about Barnes Wallace's bombs has had its release delayed....bugger !!
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on March 08, 2004, 23:49:04 pm
Hi dipsy...just couldn't download those pics and boy u spent some time sending them...really p%$£d off about that.  Tempted to just buy the book on your recommendation though !
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: DIPSY on March 08, 2004, 23:49:50 pm
I'll change their format and send them again.
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on March 08, 2004, 23:52:28 pm
Thanks really, but if they were JPEG format they should have downloaded ok...my money is with MSN being a dodgy website for E-mails!
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: DIPSY on March 09, 2004, 00:00:51 am
I've sent 1 pic saved as a JPEG in Paint. Try and open it in the same.
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on March 09, 2004, 00:10:43 am
Ok, I'll give it a try now...downloaded fine thanks!  ;)
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: DIPSY on March 09, 2004, 00:31:05 am
Just got the e-mail spat back at me.
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on March 09, 2004, 00:32:05 am
If it's over 3Mb MSN won't like it  :o
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: DIPSY on March 09, 2004, 00:33:47 am
say's your mail box was full, first e-mail was 2mb second was much smaller, both failed to deliver.
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on March 09, 2004, 00:34:37 am
Fair cop, I'll go and make some space..back in a mo!
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: DIPSY on March 09, 2004, 00:45:53 am
On the waaaaaayyyyyyyyy !! ;D ;D
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on March 09, 2004, 00:51:03 am
nope!  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on March 09, 2004, 21:37:53 pm
Quiet here lately?  Work on the top sheeting is complete, just to plane, fill and sand down now.  Began putting on the Litespan covering on the ailerons this lunchtime...it seems to go on really well, if needing balsaloc sponged onto both surfaces and left for 15-30 minutes...fiddly but it seems a good product.  As the instructions say, it's a replacement for tissue and dope and if we were making a B17, the green would be perfect for early 'mighty 8th' camouflage.  ;D  It takes Humbrol paints, so no problems with our cammo.    
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: CraigO on March 10, 2004, 00:14:08 am
Hi Gordon

any chance of some more pics.

I havent even flown mine for a while and i am getting itchy fingers.

Spent the last 3 nights tring to work out and build the flaps and ailerons for the left wing of the new mossie.  gee this think is complex!!  finally last night i managed to get the flaps assembled and attached,  now i wish i hadnt cos i still have to cover them and i cant getem off any more. >:(

anyway a lot of serious thought has gone into it.  I dont think i will post any more pics of my lanc here cos  you guys are building far more impressive versions than mine.  I wish i had put a crew in mine it adds so much!

cheers all

Craig
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on March 10, 2004, 09:21:27 am
Hi Craig,  
Quote[I dont think i will post any more pics of my lanc here cos  you guys are building far more impressive versions than mine.  I wish i had put a crew in mine it adds so much!
......

but yours has flown mate......... ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

I'll try and get the aileron covered and put a pic on much later today.  I did the same as u Craig on the lanc's elevators, but remembered to keep the ailerons off before covering  :D


PPS...one aileron finished this afternoon...I'll send a pic tonight.  Some useful pointers if using litespan:

1.  Make sure u use a new scalpel when cutting it..especially trimming it.

2.  It's very forgiving of mistakes.  If, like me, u find u have started off the sheet in the wrong area, just pull it off and it will stick again no problem.

3.  It melts slowly at 3-cornered edges to give a nice finish.

4.  It hardly shrinks...makes it so easy to use.

5.  15-30 minutes needed for the glue to dry before fitting.  Can be left much, much longer before u bring the surfaces together (2 hours in one case I found).

6.  Paint round any horns etc before putting on the balsaloc.  That way, if your cutting isn't 100% the bare balsa won't show through.

7.  To make a sharp edge between colours, just heat along the join and then remove the excess using the scalpel pushed AWAY from u..it cuts better that way I found.

Gordon (aka former Litespan Virgin).
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on March 10, 2004, 20:55:33 pm
Here's the pic.  And before u start Arel...yes, the horn will be painted matt black!  ;D

The line between the black and mottled green litespan can just be seen here.  Coloured Litespan weighs 1 once/ft sq.

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on March 10, 2004, 21:19:04 pm
Guys...noticed this link in the scale modellling thread.  Looks useful?

http://www.1java.org/skinning/markings.html

Good progress on sanding the top skin tonight...must keep up the momentum  ;D

Where is Arel these days?     ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ???
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: CraigO on March 11, 2004, 01:03:46 am
well after many hours of serious cursing and fiddling i have now completed on e flap mechanism for the mossie.

my wife and i have now got a replacement moggie for the ancient beastie that has just departed this mortal coil.  I had forgotten what it is like to have an energetic little inquisitor in the house again.  Not only that but disciplining such a nimble little devil can be damaging to models! :-[   She jumped up on the bed, where i have the lanc sitting, and when i shouted at her to get off she baled out so quickly she took the fin of the lanc with her.  serves me right for being such a grouch! ::)

Gordon

if the lite span is 1oz/sq foot then the covering is going to add about 8-9 oz or more, would that be right?

I havent tried that stuff,  I painted mine the Oz cover lite is a real treat to use and providing you clean it off with alcohol first paint has no trouble bonding to it.

where is Arel.  Perhaps he has clubbed himself a mate.  an interesting quick of fate isnt it.  we all go out to find a mate, club one and drag em home by the hair in true cave man style and then we spend the rest of our lives dodging the club.  

cheers all

Craig

cheers all

Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on March 11, 2004, 12:40:25 pm
Oooooops Craig!  :o  Should have seen 1 ounce / sq yard.  Sorreeee about that.  ::)
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Tree_Magnet on March 11, 2004, 13:10:52 pm
Gordon keep up the momentom
i must find mine  ;D

Tom
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on March 11, 2004, 17:08:32 pm
Too true TM....I lost my momentum on the lanc for about a month recently and even now it's just a few little jobs at a time to keep the pace going.  Nearly got the second aileron covered, then I'll do the tail assembly, as I feel a lot more confident with this Litespan now.

Quotewe all go out to find a mate, club one and drag em home by the hair in true cave man style and then we spend the rest of our lives dodging the club.  
.............Never a truer word mate  :'(
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: CraigO on March 12, 2004, 03:33:29 am
No problems gordon.   Icould just imagine NPJ having a go at the Fat lancs again that was all.

I am itching to fly mine again.

keep building fellas it is worth it in the end!!

Craig
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Tree_Magnet on March 12, 2004, 04:47:36 am
Craig start a mozzie thread i would like to see your build

Tom
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on March 12, 2004, 12:53:01 pm
Yup...that's 2 who would watch your Mossie build Craig.
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Arel on March 13, 2004, 05:07:24 am
III...
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: keithatrochdale on March 13, 2004, 10:13:56 am
IV............
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Dek on March 13, 2004, 12:10:26 pm
V...........
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on March 13, 2004, 14:28:36 pm
5 will watch now Craig...it's gotta be a goer?  ;)

Doing a battery duration test tomorrow.  I'll pic the setup with the wattmeter for anyone who hasn't used (or owns!) one.  
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Arel on March 14, 2004, 06:33:20 am
VI....(can I vote twice? :))

(In the third person ;))...Arel is still here and knows that he has two Lancs to build but he has been a bit distracted by a surfeit of work and a small Cessna O-2 project:

www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=196044

Arel thinks his club may be a bit defective because however hard he aims it at the cavewomen, they seem to evade it easily enough, even though he promises to drag them home by the hair and not the legs...(no one wants sand on the carpet ;) ummh ggghhh.

Arel says Uggh Arrgghh Ummmm Mosquito Uggh Rcmodelflyers.co.uk/new.thread/mosquito/craigo is um goood idea arrhahhh

Arel likes to barbeque cats...but only when there's no baby crocs to eat ;Dmmmmmmhhhhhh ;D

Arel also likes um turps on sundays ;D

Rich

Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Walts on March 14, 2004, 13:45:31 pm
Hi Guy's Guess who's back? OH NO i hear you say!!!

When i last posted my intension was to go away for a couple of weeks and knock out some hard graft on the Lanc, to try and catch up with you lot.  But before i knew it Christmas was upon us and with 3 little girls to keep happy the Lanc got shelved, Then after christmas my four legged best friend popped hes clogs, and then her in doors and myself thought it was time to make things legal and got hitched.

Well finally things have settled back to normality and i've actually got the Lanc on the go again.

I've had to re-register to get back on the site but here is a couple of photos to show where i am at right now, my tail surface are all built ready for fitting and hopefully i'll move on to that next week.

I've read through the threads to catch up, and yes Gordon you finally convinced me your a raving mad scottsman ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

(http://rcmf.co.uk/old-uploads/lanc1a.JPG)

(http://rcmf.co.uk/old-uploads/lanc2a.JPG)

(http://rcmf.co.uk/old-uploads/mymodellibary032.jpg)
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on March 14, 2004, 17:28:47 pm
Quotedrag them home by the hair and not the legs...(no one wants sand on the carpet  ummh ggghhh.
...quite so Arel...good to see u back and that includes Walts too...boy u have produced some superb work...makes mine look neanderthal. ::)

Walts are those nacelles plastic?  They look superb..like the exhausts (a job I mean to do on a Sunday morning while my daughter is off horse riding and I'm left in the car park with an hour to kill).  Getting hitched, 3 kids...awesome work lad.  ;) ;) ;)

Regards
Quotea raving mad scottsman
"Scotsman"...ahem!  ;D
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on March 14, 2004, 17:32:41 pm
And just to show my patented engine test facility....Wattmeter in the centre with pack slung casually over the port mainplane.  :)

CraigO..............did u know Grahamd has started a Mossie thread in the scale modelling section?

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: BalsaDust on March 14, 2004, 20:10:12 pm
hi Walt,
that model of yours looks excellent ! - Is that the nacelle plug on the starboard outer ??
Looks wooden to me .....
I think you might have a few takers for the moldings if you run off a few extra ... ;)

Are you going for retract doors by the way ??


Well done that man

regards
BalsaDust
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Walts on March 14, 2004, 20:16:06 pm
Hi Gordon

Thanks, but let me tell you the many pictures you have posted over the last 5 months or so have given me the much needed inspiration to carry on with this project, (Tony N. 3 weeks are you sure!) and i think your model is looking excellent.

The Nacelles are balsa as per the plan with one exception i'll explain in a miniute.  But yes the cowls are vac formed.

I decided a long time ago to have plastic cowls for the following reasons:

1,  Light weight
2,  maximum air space for motor cooling
3,  Only need to shape 1 plug instead of 4 cowls
4,  Only need to make 2 exhaust shrouds instead of 8!
5,  The complex shape is ready to take paint instead of trying to tissue
     and dope 4 of them etc..

So anyway i set about making a nice plug and it was only when i was sitting back admiring my work that it dawned on me, I hadn't got a clue where i was going to get these things pulled.  After much asking around i found a freind who had a freind that worked in a school that had a vac former, (Phew!!) so i managed to obtain a huge favour from someone i dont know, you get the picture.

As for the nacelles i decided like others on this site that i wanted operational U/C doors, and clocking many photo's i noticed the constantly changing curves of the things, so i decided to tac glue solid balsa block into the U/C well whilst making the nacelles and then shape it as a flowing part of the nacelle, so when i remove it i will hopefully be able to have 2 blisters vac formed over the 2 blocks which can then be split down the middle to provide perfectly fitting light weight doors.

As to their operation dont ask i havn't got that far yet!! :D

Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on March 14, 2004, 20:38:17 pm
As I was just saying to BD on an IM tonight, I found out we had a vacuum former at the school I teach at AFTER making the nacelles!  ;D

Did the motor runs tonight...LOUD eh?  8)

Just to finish a little litespan on the ailerons tomorrow and as a project to stay out of the cold garage I've started to cut out the bits for the cockpit detail.

Walts....like u I've yet to come up with a working system for my undercarriage doors.  Made a prototype up ages ago, but it will have to work well, as the undercarriage doesn't take prisoners!  ;D  (tried to restrict the air, but as I've 2 unmatched cylinders, they don't operate well together).
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Walts on March 14, 2004, 20:45:22 pm
Quote from: BalsaDust on March 14, 2004, 20:10:12 pm
hi Walt,
that model of yours looks excellent ! - Is that the nacelle plug on the starboard outer ??
Looks wooden to me .....
I think you might have a few takers for the moldings if you run off a few extra ... ;)

Are you going for retract doors by the way ??


Well done that man

regards
BalsaDust


Hi BalsaDust, i was posting a reply to gordon the same time as you was posting yours, looks like i've answered your question before i saw your posting,  :-[ ;D

Cheers Walts.
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Walts on March 14, 2004, 22:38:26 pm
BTW Gordon, what was the results of your duration test and what size pack was you using?

Re the U/C doors i have some ideas floating around in my head but wouldnt like to post until proven :-\
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: CraigO on March 14, 2004, 23:07:05 pm
Well good morning all

How are you all.  superb weather in adelaide all weekend, mid twenties and only light winds.  HYowever many many chores on the list so that the house doesnt look like the final scene from twister when SHMBO gets back from sydney.

I did sneak out for a couple of flights while waiting for the floors to dry.   Special note, I am dead sexy in my fluffy slippers, paisley house, coat hair all up in curlers under an old tea towel and a fag out the corner of my mouth.  all the alure of a sinking oil tanker :)  the Ex-cop next door is obviouisly infatuated with me cos he keeps asking all of his work mates round to watch me through little holes in the fence.   gee this new glue is really good! :P :P  sit down up the back there!

Back to the Lanc flights.  It doesnt like having a rearward CofG flies round all tail down and uncomfortable, but still manageable.  I got 2 flights in so it now has 6 in all.  It really is a doddle to fly.  I did notive that the engines were warm at the end of the Flight so i am looking at ways of improving the cooling flow.  I havent put the gear doors i made on yet and to be honest you cant actually see that detail in the air when the wheels are up but it would look cool on the ground and in take off and landing cycles.  Would you believe i still have a rudder problem!

Walt - i love the nacelles and gear door ideas, your lanc looks fantasitc.  I am thinking of vac forming the nacelles on my mosquito so i am interested in your success.

Gee 5 people who want to so my bals afumblings with the mossie. OK guys i will start a thread as soon as i get a digital camera. SHMBO says i can have one :)

Gordon -  when i first saw your engine test bed i thought you had it sitting on a welder.  now that has to be the ulitimate DC power source :)  check your windings afterwards however.


cheers all ;)

Craig

Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on March 15, 2004, 00:52:05 am
Hi guys...no Craig, it wasn't a welder  ;D ;D, just my tool box.  Nice to know the weather's nice over there...bloody gales here right now  ;D  I

did 2 runs tonight to check if both packs were similar, and they are.  Just ran them at full throttle and the motors were cool and so too were the packs.  Both packs switched off after 18 minutes or so.  Everything worked as advertised.  However, I think my 6 cell 7.2v 2400MAh packs will need to be upgraded, as the motors were only drawing 48/50watts?  BD, what wattage should those motors be drawing at full chat?  Yes, I know u mentioned this recently, but I lost my note paper!  ???
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Tree_Magnet on March 15, 2004, 04:27:36 am
Hey Gordon I thought it was for scale flying around 50 Watts/Lb

I think
are you drawing 50watts total?
my little hurricane
8x6 prop
all up weight 22oz
6v s400 2.33:1 gear
8x600ae cells
draws  86 watts


Tom
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Arel on March 15, 2004, 06:37:47 am
Walts,

Maybe you should join up again as Superman... :)..Three kids, Marriage and you still had time to get that much done. Really lovely work mate.


Craig,

Sounds like you are having way too much fun mate. When/if you do get a camera...feel free to NOT post a pic of you in that outfit...I don't think any of us need to see that sight ;) ;D


Gordon,

If your packs are 2400mah and they lasted 18 minutes that means hmmmm (gets slide rule out... :))

18/60= .3hr. So current draw from each pack is 3.333333333333333(etc)x2400=7.99999999999999999A  lets say 8A...

You have a series/parallel setup, so each motor only sees 3 cells or 3v

So 3v x 8A=24w (x2 as you have two circuits)

=48w...Tada!! :)

Now divide that 48w by 6lb(or 7lb)

=8w/lb :( (or <7w/lb :'()

Not so good. Not even enough power to taxi methinks-but your motors will last forever ;D

The bumf I got with my Jeti Jes 500 says it will handle 12 cells so methinks you need to series the battery packs together (not parallel ;)) so each motor sees 6 cells....this will more than double the watts seen at the whattmeter, but still may not be enough

What motors do you have again? I can't remember if they are 6v or 7.2 v...


<edit> I've just reread my post...if the total amp draw is only 8a...each circuit is only seeing 4a...but that doesn't compute (maybe last nights turps session has softened the brain a bit)

Ahhh stuff it...whatever is wrong with my calcs (maybe the slide rule is bent? :))...that isn't enough to fly on mate.

Cheers,

Rich
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Arel on March 15, 2004, 09:26:00 am
If anyone needs a break from the tedium of building beautiful Lancasters, they have just updated my clubs website. Lots of hi res pics of us having fun in the sun. If anyone wants to see what I look like, check out the photo album/crashes, where I seem to be a bit over represented  :'(;D

Is that style or what?....

www.messagestick.net/hemfc/

Rich
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on March 15, 2004, 12:46:06 pm
Arel...agree, as they seemed a little lifeless during the test.  not a lot of wind when I was standing behind them  :o  If I remember BDs circuit and comments he recommended a 14.4v pack (can't find one to buy anywhere at 3300MAh, but Overlander do a 3000MAh pack).  I'll join them up and do another test....thanks for the turps calcs  ;D

QuoteIf anyone wants to see what I look like,
...seems to be a guy on there with really poor dress sense, but where are u Arel?  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Tree_Magnet on March 15, 2004, 12:49:43 pm
Hey Arel looks like a club i should join, you use trees for landing strips as well   ;D

Tom
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on March 15, 2004, 12:51:31 pm
It's Oz...it's huge...how do u hit a bloody tree?  ;D ;D
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Dek on March 15, 2004, 14:02:13 pm
Quote from: Gordon on March 15, 2004, 12:46:06 pm
If I remember BDs circuit and comments he recommended a 14.4v pack


The problem with a single battery driving 4 motors is the very high current it has to deliver. Volts drop off with extra current and more power is wasted by heating the battery (due to it's internal resistance). I'm hoping to overcome this with a separate battery and esc for each pair of motors.

Derek
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on March 15, 2004, 14:30:59 pm
At least u are learning from others Dek (like my efforts  ;D ), as that's why the forum is so good  8)
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Dek on March 15, 2004, 16:44:49 pm
Quote from: Gordon on March 15, 2004, 14:30:59 pm
At least u are learning from others Dek (like my efforts  ;D ), as that's why the forum is so good  8)


It certainly wouldn't have been so good and maybe not even finished!
I have researched the original Offley Belle and have the following text mounted on a plaque by the model.

`Offley Belle

Lancaster FM102 was built at the Victory Aircraft plant in Malton Ontario and presented as a gift to the British Government by the people of Offley in Northern Ontario who had raised the £4,545.00 which it then cost to build.
The aircraft left Canada on June 3rd 1943 with a ferry crew of four. As with many aircraft of the day it was equipped with large auxiliary fuel tanks so that rather than being delivered empty it could add to the war effort with a cargo of much needed aviation fuel. The early part of the flight was uneventful but instead of making landfall at the Irish coast the crew found themselves over seemingly endless ocean. They managed to tap into the auxiliary fuel and after a flight which would have broken all endurance records of the time they landed safely on the beach of a small island.
The plane and the sole surviving crew member were discovered by natural history photographer John Clark in 1973. Navigator Henry Cottle was pleased to hear that we had won the war but declined the offer of a return to England as he had become a living god to the people of the tropical island and felt his duty was to remain with them. Clark reported that he appeared to be in good spirits as he was led away by a group of dusky maidens.

Derek


Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Tree_Magnet on March 15, 2004, 17:35:57 pm
hitting trees is easy it's getting them down   :o

Tom
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Tree_Magnet on March 15, 2004, 17:38:10 pm
DEK wow what a story
any more info
Tom
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on March 15, 2004, 20:16:58 pm
Ah , the hell of war!  ;D

Actually completed one part of the lanc this evening...ailerons now covered and control horns painted.  

Anyone know how I could join these two 7.2v packs I have to make a 14.4v one?  Or must I delve into my piggy bank and buy a one-piece pack  ???

Priced a pack at Overlander £59.99 incl p&p...ouch!  :(
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: CraigO on March 15, 2004, 23:02:19 pm
Gee so much material in discussion here.

Arel this is OZ where did you guys find water to crash into.  like the turps calculations now i cant see the numbers but i think it was 15 minutes or 18 minutes to run Gordons packs down.  so 2400MAh in an hour is 2.4 amps for an hour so in 2400 MAH in 15 minutes is 60/15*2.4A  ie as your said about 10 amps total.  or about 8 if it is was 18 mins.  your conculsion is right not enough to fly on.
I think im Dead Sexy,  you know what they say in austin powers "once youve had fat there is no going back!"

Gordon to make the two packs in parrallel into a single 16 cell array then you just need to create a series connector instead of the parallel connector.  

Dek is that a true story.  where was the island?  are there still any dusky maidens there and have they had fat yet?

Tom
Trees arent my preferred emergency landing site i prefer the osterich approach, and it is so much easier to collect afterwards.  I just need to perfect the sharp landings into the garbage bag directly....  it would save so much effort cleaning up the mess


going out to look at cameras again.

all the best to all

Craig



[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Dek on March 15, 2004, 23:16:16 pm
Quote from: CraigO on March 15, 2004, 23:02:19 pm
Dek is that a true story.  where was the island?  are there still any dusky maidens there?


Craig
..would I lie to you?
Derek
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Arel on March 16, 2004, 09:06:30 am
Quote from: Gordon on March 15, 2004, 12:46:06 pm


...seems to be a guy on there with really poor dress sense, but where are u Arel?  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D


What are you saying Gordon?...That's my Sunday best gear I'm wearing....You're just jealous of the fact we get to fly in shorts for 9 months a year ;D
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Arel on March 16, 2004, 09:13:17 am
Craig,

Unlike South Aus, which is a land of stunted scrubby growth, dropbears and roadkill...this is Eastern Aus otherwise known as God's own country. We fly on part of an old farm so we have a couple of dams to fly around/into :)

I have a funny story about that dam...I had just purchased my first plane (Great Planes EP Trainer) and found that there was a local electric flying club. I turned up early one Sunday morning...full of questions.

After an hour or so of watching planes zooming around...I asked if there was many air to air collisions..."never" was the reply. Needless to say, about 5 minutes later a Blue Foamie colided with an FVK Silent Dream and the Dream went straight into the dam...About 15 minutes later another Silent Dream was getting a bit high in a boomer thermal so the pilot put on the spoilers...ripped off both wings and plunged straight into the same dam. About a month later, a diver was brought in to recover both Dreams...I believe that the useable equipment recovered was limited to a couple of servos and a receiver...

That diagram of the wiring for Gordo's packs says it all...not bad for a cross dresser ;) ;D ;D

Rich
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Arel on March 16, 2004, 09:15:52 am
Quote from: Dek on March 15, 2004, 23:16:16 pm
Quote from: CraigO on March 15, 2004, 23:02:19 pm
Dek is that a true story.  where was the island?  are there still any dusky maidens there?


Craig
..would I lie to you?
Derek


Who cares about the dusky maidens...what happened to the Lanc...was it turned into a shrine to the pasty white God, or is it still sitting there?

Rich
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Arel on March 16, 2004, 09:46:30 am
Quote from: Tree_Magnet on March 15, 2004, 17:35:57 pm
hitting trees is easy it's getting them down   :o

Tom


Tom,

One of the club members got a bit sick of climbing the trees to get his planes back so he invested in an extendable fiberglass pole to make the recovery of his and everyone elses planes a bit easier...Failing that we just shake the trees really hard...or stand around throwing rocks at the stuck plane untill the plane falls down...or isn't worth saving anymore ;) ;D ;D

Rich
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Dek on March 16, 2004, 11:49:05 am
Quote from: Arel on March 16, 2004, 09:15:52 am

Who cares about the dusky maidens...what happened to the Lanc...was it turned into a shrine to the pasty white God, or is it still sitting there?

Rich


I believe it was destroyed by the Americans in 2002 as it was a weapon of mass destruction.
Derek
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Arel on March 16, 2004, 11:59:03 am
Methinks you might be telling little fibs Dek ;D

Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Dek on March 16, 2004, 12:31:23 pm
perish the thought  ::)

Derek
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on March 16, 2004, 12:48:51 pm
Arel....dams in E Oz?..so u will be making a 617 Sqn lanc then?

Craig thanks for the circuit...crossdresser or not it looks just fine (better than some tea-shirt wearers I've seen lately  ;D ).

Ordered that lanc book Dipsy recommended last night, so should be very useful to help complete the cockpit.  I'm making my cockpit like u would build an Airfix plastic model, in that it's dry pre-assembled and then glued in bit by bit after the area is sprayed with interior cockpit green.

Oh u b***ch Arel  ;D
QuoteYou're just jealous of the fact we get to fly in shorts for 9 months a year  


Next useless bit of information I found out last night.  The merlin lancs swung to the left on takeoff, the Mk2 hercules ones swung to the right....tricky if u changed squadrons  ;D ;D
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Walts on March 16, 2004, 21:27:15 pm
Hey Gordon, so which way did the multiplex lanc swing!!  ;D ;D

As for this battery, watts, amps debate i am not getting involved, seem to remember the last time i opened this can, i caused quite a few nervous breakdowns! :o :-[ Hey perhaps thats why my last account got deleted!! ;D
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on March 16, 2004, 22:16:43 pm
QuoteHey Gordon, so which way did the multiplex lanc swing
....didn't with the lack of power I tried Walts!   ;D ;D ;D


Ordered some more gold connectors tonight to modify my lanc to a 'twin packer'.  It will have a 75 gram weight penalty against a single 14.4v pack and I'll site the second pack over the C of G.

SHMBO is really pleased with Craig's answer to my pack problem, so much so she spent the money I've saved this evening  ??? ??? ??? ??? ???
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Walts on March 16, 2004, 22:53:55 pm
Quote from: Gordon on March 16, 2004, 22:16:43 pm


SHMBO is really pleased with Craig's answer to my pack problem, so much so she spent the money I've saved this evening  ??? ??? ??? ??? ???



An old friend of mine once told me "Never never let them know of your good fortune or you wont have it for much longer",  He also confessed shortly before his retirement that he had never brought he's wife a washing machine, when asked why he said "The more you've got, the more you've got to go wrong bonny lad, and there's a perfectly good launderette round the corner".  He was a funny old boy if not a little mean :)
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: CraigO on March 16, 2004, 23:18:20 pm
CROSS DRESSER ....  CROSS DRESSER...  It was the glue i tell you.  strange green fumes have been affecting me  humph :)   eh ive ad worse!

Gordon - the graupner mini-olympus lanc swings to the left.  tricky without a rudder working properly too hold up elevator to keep the tail down and keep it straight until it is just about to lift off, well that is the way i have been getting around it, till i fix the sodding thing.  by doubling up the packs you should more than double the power, since the areodynamic power produced by the props will not change linearly so the amp draw will also go up non-linearly.  probably lift it up to something like 25-30 amps instead so you will empty your 2400 packs in about 5-6 minutes.

sorry about the additional expense gordon.  I havent even touched my mossie since SWMBO got back.  :(

Arel  I fly on my block too but then again there are only 6 trees in 30 acres :(.  well until the 1200 tubes that my wife and planted get up, and the 10Kms of direct seeding get moving.   then i will be forced to fly in a small area at the top of the hill.  I have even got a dam, pitty it doesnt hold water  ::)

anyway

happy St pats Day and  a merry  pint of guiness to you all

Craig
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on March 17, 2004, 00:01:28 am
QuoteThe more you've got, the more you've got to go wrong bonny lad,
...'bonny lad', so he was a Geordie then!  I had a Chief Technician in the RAF who spoke like that and a mean sod he was too  ;D


Quotesorry about the additional expense gordon
....don't apologise Craig..your circuit was so damn simple I kicked myself for not coming up with it myself (I was too focused on joining the packs physically, not via the circuit..doh  ??? ).  It really cheered me up, as the solution seems too simple (hope it is to impliment!).  Ordered a load of stuff on the net tonight, so the cockpit will keep me busy while the electricory bits are in the post.

Craig...it's nice to know the merlin model swings the same direction as its bigger brother  ;)
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Walts on March 17, 2004, 10:29:39 am
Quote from: Gordon on March 17, 2004, 00:01:28 am
'bonny lad', so he was a Geordie then!  I had a Chief Technician in the RAF who spoke like that and a mean sod he was too  ;D





Funny enough Gordon he wasnt, he was an eastend lad through and through.  he was just full of one liner's quotes and stories, a real character.  He joined the fire brigade in 1960 and became a bit of a hero character to me during my early career.

One of he's more serious stories was the time he was called to an incident at Dungeon's Wharf, where i beleive a workman had fallen into a gas cylo, on arrival most of the crew made their way up the ladder to the top of the cylo, when they called back for a peice of equipment to be taken up, Paul stepped forward but he's guv said i'll take it up lad you better stay with the machine. (Paul was the driver) as Paul watched he's guv near the top of the ladder their was an almighty explosion and all he could see was 5 tiny little black spec's dissapear into the sky.  He said it ws the most eeriest experience of he's life when he was ordered to take the machine back to the station.  He said the silence was unbearable knowing that only a short while earlier the sound of he's friends banter had rung in his ears on the way to the shout.

There is still a brass plaque mounted in the watchroom at Millwall fire station to commemorate the men who lost their lives that day.  One of he's well known saying is "I was a fireman when the ladders where made of wood and the men made of steel, nowadays its the other way round"  Sometimes Paul i have to agree with you, but we still try our best.


Anyway enough of this seriousness, going to do a bit more work on the Lanc :)
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on March 17, 2004, 23:48:29 pm
Sobering story Walts and no mistake.   :-\

On a lighter note, I am now waiting for a raft of bits 'n pieces plus 'dipsys' lanc book to speed me on my way...been tired this past week or so, I think I need the holiday coming up a week on Monday!   ;)  Managed to sand down the top sheeting on the wing and break my undercarriage leg in the process..honest it was just a glass of wine and no more  ;D ;D  So back to the forge and braze the damn thing again!

Decided to take the wing into school tomorrow and 'inspire' the model club  :D  As the fuselage has been living in the school this past week while I build the cockpit at lunchtimes, I might be tempted to put them together to further inspire them, I hope  ;D ;D

Walts, must say I think those pics u put on the thread were awesome build quality...have I mentioned I hate u  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Arel...how are the locusts?  Seems your neck of the woods has a few munching their way through lots of farmers fields?  ::)
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Walts on March 18, 2004, 15:39:48 pm
Quote from: Gordon on March 17, 2004, 23:48:29 pm


Managed to sand down the top sheeting on the wing and break my undercarriage leg in the process..



Now Gordon, you have been warned and warned about the weight you've been piling on this thing, I suppose something had to give in the end!! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Yours and my Lanc's might not fly in the end but at least we will have the snazyiest lawn mowers in the land!!  :o ;D ;D.  I am off to work tonight but i really must get back into this thing tomorrow.

Ta ta
Walts.
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on March 18, 2004, 22:47:17 pm
QuoteNow Gordon, you have been warned and warned about the weight you've been piling on this thing, I suppose something had to give in the end!!    
....when I did the arithmetic Walts, the 'new' 12 cell double battery setup is only 75 grammes heavier than a 10 cell 3000MAh pack and nearly 60 quid cheaper!

QuoteYours and my Lanc's might not fly in the end
...oh yes they will Walts.  To have them only as static models would be crazy, so plenty of pics when yours flies ok?

I ran mine at the school model club tonight and it seemed to go down well...even on a single pack.  ;)  The lancaster book Dipsy recommended arrived today and it's superbly detailed and covers the Manchester and Lincoln too.  There's little it hasn't covered in pics, so full steam ahead to get the cockpit finished.  Thanks again for the info on this book Dipsy.  ;)

I ordered some extra long screws for my spinner setup, as the screws u get with the Multiplex propellors (recommnded for this kit), seem rather too short if u use a liteply disc glued to the inside of the spinner as I have done.  

Walts..the pupils at the club tonight thought your build was superb  >:( >:( >:(
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Arel on March 19, 2004, 06:21:08 am
Quote from: Gordon on March 17, 2004, 23:48:29 pm
Arel...how are the locusts?  Seems your neck of the woods has a few munching their way through lots of farmers fields?  ::)


None around here :)...I read two facts about locusts in the paper yesterday...1) Even the local hoon drivers have to slow down so they don't get a coating of squashed locusts on their cars...2) The Thais like to split the abdomen of locusts, jam in a peanut, deep fry and eat...yummy :o ;D ;D
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on March 19, 2004, 15:42:14 pm
QuoteThais like to split the abdomen of locusts, jam in a peanut, deep fry and eat...yummy    
..any good with chips then?  ;)

Going for the full burn this weekend with 2 battery packs fitted...must nail down the washing on the line!  ;D

Got the wiring mostly done this evening, so just a couple of bits to do then hmmmmm!  ;)
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on March 21, 2004, 21:23:55 pm
Gordon is pleased to announce the birth at 1030 this morning of a new 12 cell, 14.4v bouncing (non 617 Squadron) lanc...father and lanc are doing well.  ;D

PS...rather large wingspan brought tears to the eyes!  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Walts on March 21, 2004, 21:57:20 pm
Phew, hadn't heard from you since friday was just going to post to make sure you hadnt blown yourself up  :o glad to hear it all went well :)
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on March 21, 2004, 23:38:10 pm
Thanks Walts.

Right guys...a few thoughts on my battery setup before I bung in the wattmeter next week sometime.  First, with two 7.2v packs of 2400MAh that would be 7.2x2.4 Watts for an hour equal to 17.28 Watts for an hour?  With 2 packs in series it's twice that or 34.56 Watts for an hour?  Assuming my bus weighs 6.5lbs (must do a final weigh after the last sheet balsa is fitted on the fuselage!) and the figure of 70W/lb is bandied about for this kit, then would I be right in saying that my flight time MIGHT BE this:

Watts required = 70W x 6.5lbs = 455 watts to get daylight betwen the ground and the lanc?
Watts available are 34.56 watts x 60 minutes = 2073.6 Watt minutes (yeah ok bare with me, I'm nearly finished!)
Theoretical flight time = 2073.6 / 455 = 4.55 minutes?

Is the 70W/lb too high?  Of course if it was 50W/Lb then the time would be a much more respectable 6minute 24 seconds minus heat losses as Dek pointed out recently.  ???

Yeah, it's late and if I've c@*ked up here just mock me  ;D  ;D ;D  
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on March 22, 2004, 00:04:16 am
Hey Arel, are u near Cooktown?  It has had 18 inches of rain in 4 days....serious rain doud, get the 617 lancs up there for dam practise...thought the Scottish Highlands was wet  ;D
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: BalsaDust on March 22, 2004, 08:47:10 am
Hi Gordon,
read through your message re estimated flight times - sounds about right !

I prefer to work with the current drawn by the circuit & work things out from there, but certainly fast taxis in the bus lane or even flights of around 5 - 6 minutes shouldn't be a problem ! ;D

Regards
BalsaDust
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on March 22, 2004, 12:46:42 pm
Hi BD.  
QuoteI prefer to work with the current drawn by the circuit & work things out from there
...yup, I'll do that sometime this week to get the ACTUAL times, but as THEORETICAL arithmetic it did seem close to the accepted norm for the model...I'm reasured about that!  ;D  Is 70w/lb a realistic figure?
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: BalsaDust on March 22, 2004, 14:06:59 pm
70W per lb should be more than enough to fly it .. my setup is running at around 45-55 W/lb

regards
Balsadust
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on March 22, 2004, 14:49:09 pm
Quotemy setup is running at around 45-55 W/lb
...was this figure fine tuned the more u flew it BD?  Your upper limit would give me a THEORETICAL maximum of 5 and three quarter minutes.  Should be interesting to compare the wattmeter readings to these calculations  ;)  Thanks yet again oh guru one!  ;D
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: BalsaDust on March 22, 2004, 17:09:58 pm
the only things I've changed are the props (from 8x6 to 9x4.5 and back to 8x6 again) and the NiCd (from 1700 to 3300)

The 9x4.5's did not perform as well as the 8x6's, but the model flew reasonably well ....

the 3300 is heavier than the 1700 but does offer more power for longer (lower internal resistance than the 1700's)

Archie's trying to persuade me to go down the Li-poly route which would give me something around 8000mAh capacity with 12 cells - for the same weight as the 3300 pack

Watch this space ....

regards
Balsadust
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on March 22, 2004, 20:28:16 pm
QuoteArchie's trying to persuade me to go down the Li-poly route which would give me something around 8000mAh capacity with 12 cells - for the same weight as the 3300 pack
....and the cost BD? Plus charger cost too?  ;D ;D

8000MAh...impressive though!  Why worry about weight then?  ;)

On a completely different tack I felt the M3 grub screws I fitted to the front of my undercarriage legs weren't really up to the job, so replaced them with M4 grub screws and the last doubts about these Eurotract castings doing the job are now a thing of the past.
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: CraigO on March 23, 2004, 01:05:10 am
HI Guys

Godron ; Close but not touching.  the 2 2400 packs in series are still 2400MAh i am afraid. :(

if you are looking for a respectable 50w/lb (which is OK for a large multi motor)  then you will need in the order of 350W

2400 pack is 2.4 amps for an hour.  350W from a 14.4 volt pack is 24 amps or so.  so you would then get about 6 minutes of flight time.   very respectable indeed.   2.4/24 hours or 1/10 of an hour which is 6 minutes :)  Green!

this advantage of the larger number of cells is the increased voltage.  considering heat losses go up at the square of current, higher voltage will produce the same Watts at a lower current, so the lower current mens less losses overall. :)

how did it feel this time.  was it drying the clothes faster and stirring up the snow a few yards away?

Craig
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on March 23, 2004, 12:52:08 pm
Quotehow did it feel this time.  Was it drying the clothes faster and stirring up the snow a few yards away?
....snow free this week!  ;D

It's reassuring to find my calculations are only different by a few seconds Craig, Arel & BD.  ;)  I find it interesting how people on the thread go about calculating all thinks electrickery.  It seems to be an eclectic mix of 'amp', wattmeter' or 'power' approaches mainly.  Since coming on the forum I felt that the power approach was best, as some comments I've read (not on the lanc forum thankfully) don't really understand the basic differences between series and parallel circuits (and yes, I'm not a great fan of the term 'series/parallel' so loved of modellers either).  Read a thread on the E-Zone recently where a guy had wired up a multi-engined model in such a way that if one of the series circuits had failed he'd be left with an asymetric model?????  ;D  He stated that he'd used the diagram for many years without any problems....lucky him!  ;D ;D
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on March 24, 2004, 21:14:41 pm
Just realised I've been making a Mk X pilots seat and my lanc will be a Mk1...3 steps forward and 4 back.. >:(
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Arel on March 26, 2004, 10:36:52 am
Quote from: Gordon on March 24, 2004, 21:14:41 pm
Just realised I've been making a Mk X pilots seat and my lanc will be a Mk1...3 steps forward and 4 back.. >:(


Gordon,

So none of the w/lb replies are putting you off then eh? ;) ;D

50w/lb should (and probably will) be enough to fly your IPMS masterpiece...have you decided which seatbelts and latches are correct?

Please..please..please...leave out the navigators positon and elsan or I fear all of us will be trying to think of nice things to say...while thinking I told you so :-[ :)

Cheers

Rich

P.S. No water here...funny that...3 inches of rain in a day...yet none in the dams...so no washing of cars etc :).
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on March 26, 2004, 12:55:49 pm
Arel...
QuoteSo none of the w/lb replies are putting you off then eh
...........'course not    ;D

QuoteIPMS masterpiece
....this week has been one hellova month...so go on and mock the afflicted and  tell me what IPMS is?

Quoteno washing of cars
..just cars then?  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Dek on March 26, 2004, 17:02:02 pm
"Offley Belle" won the club electric cup last night!

All I need to do now is fly it!

Derek
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on March 26, 2004, 21:21:36 pm
Quote"Offley Belle" won the club electric cup last night!

All I need to do now is fly it!
...then IPMS?   Is this codebreakers week on the lanc thread?  ;D ;D
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Arel on March 26, 2004, 21:54:16 pm
IPMS=International Plastic Modellers Society...

There will be a local branch in Scotland where you can display the lanc (don't tell em its balsa)...and with the level of detail you're getting into, you'll probably win a few medals :)
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on March 26, 2004, 23:43:22 pm
QuoteIPMS=International Plastic Modellers Society...

There will be a local branch in Scotland where you can display the lanc (don't tell em its balsa)...and with the level of detail you're getting into, you'll probably win a few medals  
......it's not that detailed!!!!  ;D

It's gotta have a pilot surely and having a seat isn't optional?  ;D  Is yours sitting on a crate then?  ;D ;D ;D  Could be tricky spilling the beer when the flak is heavy!  8)
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Arel on March 27, 2004, 09:01:47 am
Gordon,

No offence intended mate :)

I haven't even got pilots yet...The last thing I did for my Lanc was to build some racking so it can hang up on the wall. I will get into it again soon.

Maybe I can make a pilot seat out of VB cases...or beter yet a keg...enough to keep the thirsty pilot going...and a good reason to get home in one piece ;D

Cheers

Rich
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Arel on March 27, 2004, 09:06:00 am
Quote from: Dek on March 26, 2004, 17:02:02 pm
"Offley Belle" won the club electric cup last night!

All I need to do now is fly it!

Derek


Derek,

Nice one mate...I hope you didn't tell them where "that island" is to secure the win. Stories like that should remain a secret for those of us afficiondos in the know ;) ;D

Rich
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on March 27, 2004, 15:20:09 pm
'Airfix' cockpit about half finished without painting..I'll put a pic on once it's ready to finish.

QuoteNo offence intended mate
...None taken Arel  ;)  Spent the afternoon tapping some cheesehead screws for the props and they fit well tapped down from M3 to M2.5.  The control column is now gluing, so should be ready for assembly tonight.
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on March 27, 2004, 22:29:33 pm
Quote'Airfix' cockpit about half finished without painting..I'll put a pic on once it's ready to finish.
...and here it is, without sanding or painting etcetera.  Arel...the control wheel rotates...sad I know, but SHMBO was out for 5 hours today, so made the most of it  ;D ;D ;D  The lanc's column was just square, so easy to make, but the handwheel was a pain to do.  Here's my secret though.  The wire I used is very malleable and I used the wire from my kids sparklers from last November 5th!  I think it's because the metal is heated to red hot and left to cool slowly, so in effect it's tempered ready to bend easily!  Need a life or what?   ;D ;D

Will finish it by doing some rudder pedals...ok Arel?



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Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on March 27, 2004, 22:47:03 pm
Here's the first assembly of all 3 bits!  The stand works really well, (£8 from Screwfix!).  I'll make up some taller inserts for the work surface, as the plastic ones u get are too short.  The more I look at this model the more I'm thinking the main access should be along the fuselage spine, as everything can be accessed from there (excluding the 2 wing bolts of course).  Connecting up the Rx to the tail servos is fiddly, as would be the second battery pack, so a top fusealge access is being seriously considered!  ;)  Although it may seem like it's nearly finished, it needs serious sanding down, the flying surfaces need better mating to the fuselage and those undercarriage doors loom ever larger (might fly it before doing the finer detail?).    

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Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Arel on March 28, 2004, 08:05:35 am
Gordon,

Looking good...I noticed the rudder pedals, or lack of. Are you doing a panel full of gauges?

As for the stand, get your self some packing foam about 2" thick, epp or eps, and carve out the shape of the fuse so you can sit the Lanc in it upside down for easy battery removal. Even better, have a look at a fruit/vege shop or Chinese restaraunt for a foam box to use so the sides of the box can support the wings.

Rich
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: tomf on March 28, 2004, 09:40:43 am
Hi Guys

Very well done all you builders. All the models are looking excellent, so much better than mine. :o

Gordon. Re Rigging stand. Was there not a pic of mine on the CD? If it was not then I will post it here for your perusal.

Tomf
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on March 28, 2004, 09:57:23 am
QuoteGordon. Re Rigging stand. Was there not a pic of mine on the CD? If it was not then I will post it here for your perusal.
...thanks for the offer Tomf, (why u not leccy Dakkin' then?), but my idea is to either beef up the existing plastic inserts u get with the table, or modify your design to fit into the table!  ;)  (Yes I have it on the CD).  Modifying your idea then makes the model at a better working height, so your idea is likely to be used  ;D

Quote...I noticed the rudder pedals, or lack of. Are you doing a panel full of gauges?
...yup to both!  I'll photo the panel today and scale it down to see how it goes.  Making the panel was a dawdle, but me and IT are fun to watch, as I'm the original IT luddite  ;D
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Walts on March 28, 2004, 15:53:49 pm
Gordon, The photo looks great!!

Once again inspiration when its most needed, I've had a really bad week, decided to work on my tail end and nothing went right.  Somewhere along the line my tail plane profiles transfered to my fuss ended up well out, so when i offered in the tail plane it was completely out of true with the wing.  After lots of cutting away to try and square it up i ended up with a gaping hole in the fuss and no support for the t/plane, anyway i finally got the thing fixed properly and decided to tissue and dope the fuss and tail surfaces so i could get it nicely smooth before fitting detail such as the top gun fairing and cutting hatches for battery and tail acess etc.

I bought some light weight tissue from my local shop and things got even worse, this stuff is shiny on one side very thin but quite stiff. and i ended up with more wrinkles then a 90 year old.  Spent most of the day trying to sand them out again.  Also when i made my rear turret fairing it ended up looking like a trumpet so i had to cut it off and start again.

All these set backs have caused me to shelf models in the past for long long periods, so it was a greatfully received kick up the ass seeing your model looking so near completion.

Cheers Walts.

P.s defently wont be posting any photos at this stage  :-[
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on March 28, 2004, 23:03:03 pm
Hi Guys.....
QuoteOnce again inspiration when its most needed, I've had a really bad week,
....mine stretch to months sometimes Walts!   ;D ;D ;D ;D  Sorry to hear the lanc's been a pain but as they say, photos can be misleading and mine is no exception!  My main b##lls up is my main rear bolt support.  For some reason it's now half a diameter out-of-true, so I'll need to dremel the mounting off and re-araldite it...it's a pain, but hey, u know this!  ;)  

Ran it today in 14.4v mode and the ESC was uncomfortably hot, so scrubbed the run after a few minutes, as the ESC started to become intermittent...got me worried a bit, so I'll fully charge the batteries and fit the Wattmeter too (a couple of extra leads needed for this setup as the pic shows).  To follow on from my last musing, I'm very interested in fitting both batteries vertically in the astrodome area (frames 4 to 5 I think on the plan) and have a cockpit that can be easily removable.  It looks ideal, as there is plenty of room and having used the edge of my new workbench as a pivot, the lanc's C of G is only 2mm out from the plans!  I only have to figure out how to keep the batteries in place but tried and tested velcro is my first choice.

Walts, please try Litespan from Inwoods.  I mentioned it a few pages back and as I'm a complete novice at covering I made a rather good job (or so my model club pupils said!) of the aileron covering.  It's £1.60 for a square metre, weighs an ounce and comes in camo green, black etc.  The blurb says it's designed to replace tissue and dope!  U will need balsaloc glue to use it but I got 2 small tubs of it and it didn't break the bank either.  Hope this week brings better luck, as your model looks disgustingly brilliant!  ;D  

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Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Walts on March 28, 2004, 23:39:16 pm
Cheers Gordon, I was just letting off a bit of steam. I have used litespan on a model before, it was a very small light bi plane an avro baby 44" span it was powered by an os26 4 stroke but only weighed a little over 3lb.

I found the stuff very easy to work with if you want the finish as it comes, but for this sort of scale model i like to use good old tissue and dope (not this shiny stuff though) when done properly you end up with a very smooth seamless finish that when painted looks like sheet metal, i'll persever and get there in the end. I think you may have a lot of trouble with the curves if you intend to use this stuff on your fuss, so good luck.

P.s attached is a photo of the avro baby (litespan covered) the front end tissue'd and dope'd

(http://rcmf.co.uk/old-uploads/mymodellibary003.jpg)

(http://rcmf.co.uk/old-uploads/mymodellibary004.jpg)

Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on March 28, 2004, 23:47:26 pm
Walts, suitably impressed!  I took my lead from my guru aka BD...as u have probably seen he has a rather nice lanc, so I'll take both of your advice and apply carefully  ;D  (Must admit a few curves around the nacelles etc will be 'challenging'  ;D ;D  Made up my extra charging leads tonight, so now the Supernova can charge both packs together.  Should be interesting to see if the time varies from both individually?  Think not?

Quotewhen done properly you end up with a very smooth seamless finish that when painted looks like sheet metal
.....have a dekko at a few lanc wartime pics Walts, I don't think the finish did look like sheet metal.  The only one I'd agree was like that is the BBMF lanc and that's polished to show standard?  Why I like the litespan is that it shows up minute imperfections in my sanding!  ;D  When u look at aircraft skin (and boy in my RAF career I looked at a lot  ;D, it was far from smooth and seamless (especially when British Aerospace as it was known by then, had built it).    

Quotecongrats on winning the prize.
...wot prize Walts?   After seeing the lanc no wonder!  ;)

Quotethere are already 4 servos in the wing!
...Craig, is it a De Haviland Mosquito?   ;D ;D ;D  Remember, to do the cockpit column use sparkler wire!  ;D
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: CraigO on March 28, 2004, 23:54:30 pm
Well morning all

I had the fortune to fly mine again on the weekend in perfect autumn weather.  it really is a pleasure to fly.  I must get some gear doors on the beastie and put on the framework for the cockpit.

just thought i would say giday anyway.  

Gordon,  looking truely sensational mate.  keep up the great work.  I think i will have to get you to do the conckpit for my mosquito.  not much progress there,  wings are joined and top sheeted. just setting up the flaps, ailerons and bomb drop.  gee this thing is complex,  there are already 4 servos in the wing!

Walts, any chance of some more pictures, congrats on winning the prize.

any way

seeyall

Craig
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Walts on March 29, 2004, 13:34:30 pm
Hi chaps

Gordon i fully appreciate that full size air craft were less than perfectly smooth, but the reason i like a tissue and dope finish is because we are making minature copy's out of wood of an aircraft that was made of metal.  I always aim for a smooth finish as a base for detailing, and my main concern is always hiding any wood grain from showing through the paint finish.

I havnt covered sheeted areas with litespan before so i cant say wether it will completely cover the grain, (perhaps BD can chip in here  :) )

I certainly appreciate the weight saving factor involved but perhaps i am just too set in my old ways :-\
I admit i havn't built electric models before so i could be heading for a fall, but to me the finish is the all important bit.  This picture of my miles magister i built some years ago shows the finish obtainable from a tissue and dope base.

CraigO, sorry you will have to make do with this as i am to embarrased to photo my lanc in its current state! :-[ :-[ ;D

Oh and CraigO and Gordon, what prize ??? i've never won a prize in my life  :( :'(

(http://rcmf.co.uk/old-uploads/mymodellibary008.jpg)
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on March 29, 2004, 14:22:17 pm
Walts, this is my first multi model so it's a case of learning as we go!  I ran mine this morning and everything worked as advertised.  However, the Wattmeter only indicated 223watts and drawing around 16.3A.  The packs were topped up this morning and based on those figures the lanc would make a spirited taxi but nothing more.  I'd have expected around 24A and 320Watts...any clues to why she's so underpowered with 2 packs in series? (7.2V packs at 2400MAh).  Motors are 6v Permax (Multiplex) 400s.  

I'd put my money on the ESC, as although it ran cool this morning it was very hot last night.  I think it's limiting the current as my fag packet calculations a page or 2 ago prove.  The system is giving 14.4volts and even made sure the Rx ariel was fully deployed.

Regards Stumped!  :(  
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Walts on March 29, 2004, 14:50:28 pm
Gordon, I am using the same motors and speed controller as you, but although everything has been fitted i havn't connected it up or ran it at the moment as i've been to busy with the build.

After the last mammoth debate i caused on here about wiring circuits i decided to stick with TN original set up i.e 1x8 cell pack in order to keep the weight down.

I think you are going to need some of the others to chip in with advise here, as i've got no electrical experience.  The only thing i can think of is did you set up the speed controller as per the instructions so that the first application of full throttle sets its memory to this command?
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on March 29, 2004, 16:51:20 pm
Walts..thanks for the memory jerker!  I'll check it out.  I must say that the ESC isn't one I've got much confidence in anyway.  Had a chat with the guys at Inwoods and they are happy to exchange it...they are a really good company and one I've always deal with...free plug there guys!  ;D
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Tree_Magnet on March 29, 2004, 23:17:23 pm
 :) :) :) nice surprise when i got home tody my airspring retracts were here  now all i need is a plane to put them in hey how about a lanc oh i have to build it first  ;D

Tom
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on March 30, 2004, 00:01:54 am
Hi TM...long time no hear.  Well at least something's arrived!  I spent the evening de-soldering and packing my ESC for returning to where I bought it.  It's a pain to undo work you've done, but I haven't any confidence with this ESC, so back it goes.  

Rest of the evening got the tail section finally trimmed to the fuselage so it fits well when screwed into the fuselage (removable tail assembly remember!).   And just for Arel, I progressed the rudder bar for the pilots position!  I'll paint it and put a pic on here tomorrow for his critical perusal  ;D ;D  Amazin' what u can get done when u are on holiday  ;D
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: CraigO on March 30, 2004, 00:55:19 am
Hi all

Gordon hold on a mo.  let me just check if i have your setup correct

4 speed 400 6v motors with 2.33:1 gearboxes wired 2 series of 2 in parallel off 12 cells and 9-6 props

if i put those figures into motocalc i get about 15 amps so i think that the set up is performing correctly even if it isnt quite what you may have originally concieved :)

according to motocalc if the model weighs in at about 90 oz then you should have about 36 w/lb,  a bit light on but probably nervously flyable. the pitch speed would be a worry to me.  with a stall speed at around 17 mph  the pitch speed is only 32mph and should be more like 45mph.  9 minutes of flight but!

i think you have a couple of choices.  go down to an 8 cell pack and rewire your motors to all in parallel and use 8-6 props.  that would draw around 31amps flight time is down to 4.5 mins at full power or 7 minutes of cruizing!  pitch speed is up to 41 too  not only that but the model will be 9 oz lighter!

the other alternative is, leave the wiring as 2 series of 2 in parallel, go up to 16 cells and use 8-7 props.  that will give you more like 24 amps but you will gain another 4 oz.  9-7 will improve the pitch speed too to 44 mph but the increase in weight increases the stall speed 18mph.

bet that doesnt help at all eh :)

good luck

Craig

Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on March 30, 2004, 01:21:15 am
CraigO...some nice figures there and I'll look at them VERY closely tomorrow after some sleep.  Many thanks in anticipation anyway!

Here's 2 pics for Arel... ;D ;D

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Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on March 30, 2004, 01:22:29 am
No2 and goodnight  ::)

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Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: BalsaDust on March 30, 2004, 10:55:04 am
Hi guys,
looking good Gordon - my next project is to crew up my Lanc .... still haven't  around to it yet  ::)

Craig - any chance you could push some figures through motocalc for me ?

Graupner S400 race 4.8v motors (series/parallel), MFA mini olympus 2.33:1 G/Boxes, APC-E 8x6 props, 10 GP3300 NimH's, Schulze 35be ESC. AUW 92oz's

have also tried APC-E 9x4.5 props, but would also like to try some 9x6's

On the covering front, I used bog standard Solarfilm, simply because I was up against a deadline and it was all I could get ..... I have yet to try Lite??? whatever it is  ;) with balsaloc but can't bring myself to strip the model down and recover ....

One other thing, Gordon you mentioned your ESC was getting quite warm, check is it's maximum cell rating ....

regards
BalsaDust
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Tree_Magnet on March 30, 2004, 15:05:39 pm
Hey Craig what version of motocalc are you using

Tom
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on March 30, 2004, 16:25:10 pm
QuoteOne other thing, Gordon you mentioned your ESC was getting quite warm, check is it's maximum cell rating
...it could take 4-12 cells BD, so it should have been within its design specification.  i think it had an internal fault and had little confidence in it, as would u rely on a dodgy piece of kit to handle over a years work?  I posted it back to Inwoods this morning!  ;)

Must get Motorcalc, as Craig's calculations are very accurate and I'll be printing off this page to mull over what he said...good stuff and no mistake  ::)

On the Litespan thingy, it's 6 times the tensile strength of doped tissue (they say!) and believe me BD, if I can do that standard of work FIRST TIME using a brand new iron I've never used before, then it MUST be easy  ;D ;D  Just ordered another 8 sheets from Inwoods, so should do the lanc and maybe some of the Hallibag  ;)  At £1.60 a sheet plus balsaloc glue it's hardly expensive really?

Arel...if u want some detail I'd use hard solder next time for my pedals etc...should have done that from the beginning!  ;D
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on March 31, 2004, 23:16:49 pm
Being on holiday the lanc is going from strength to strength (excepting the ESC of course  ;D ).  For an hour tonight the lanc was a one-piece model, being cyanoed together.  The reason was that I had a few gaps between the fuselage and the tail and mainplanes, so I made up some inserts and cyanoed them into place while the mainplane and tailplane were fitted.  Once dry they were scalpeled apart.  Result is good but I'm sure Walt's effort would put mine in the shade?

Started to prepare the top of the fuselage for sheeting tonight. Based on my current motivation (which could switch off at any moment), the lanc could be ready for a test flight by the end of May....now where did I put my wellies    ;D8)
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: CraigO on April 01, 2004, 02:14:31 am
gordon just remeber the bicycle clips too :)

BD that one is easy :) that is the same as i am using.  Althought i havent actually tried the 8-6 props yet the last flights were on the 9-6 props.    I will give the 8-6;s a try this weekend if i can
:)
Stall Speed at 92 oz is around 18mph.  
with the 9-6 props the pitch speed is a bit low only 35 mph where as on the 8-6 it is 41mph .  
on the other hand the thrust from the 9-6's is about 44 oz and only 39oz or so on the others.  

54w/lb at 32 amps on the 9-6 and 48 w/lb at 26 amps on the 8-6.  

just numbers really i think that flying the beastie is the best thing!  it is pretty wasy to tell if it will get off the ground in the take off run, just dont push it.  it is a relatively lightly loaded beast  20-22 oz/sqfoot. not a floater but not a bloater either :)

Oh sorry i actually use Electricalc not motorcalc  I always get them confused.  I think motorcals is actually a bit better because it gives an update service that electricalc doesnt.  but eh its what i got :)

cheers all



Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: tomf on April 01, 2004, 19:08:16 pm
Hi Guys

Something to ponder on.

Tony Nijhuis has built and flown another version of the Leccy Lanc.
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Ready for this?
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20 cells per motor, housed in the Nacelles.
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4 AXI Brushless Outrunners
17 Ft Wingspan

Weight about 45-50lb.

There is hope yet Gordon

Tomf
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on April 01, 2004, 23:18:59 pm
QuoteThere is hope yet Gordon
...meaning?  Mine is still in one piece Tomf...!  ;)  Well actually that's factually not true since I teased the 3 main assemblies apart last night.  8), now the fit is perfect, or as near to perfect as I can get to Walt's skill.  ;)  Thinking back and seeing the skill Walt is putting into his model, I wasn't impressed with the shots I saw of a meet down south in the RCME magazine many moons ago..thought their finishes were plastic for such large models (it was the meet where Tony's lanc nearly lost it's tail to 'flak'..remember?).  

Hope Tony's lanc flies on 3 better than yours did....I couldn't build a 17 footer anyway, my binbags aren't that big  ;D ;D ;D

Back at reality central I've decided to fit a removable and locking hatch behind the cockpit.  That way the twin battery pack will fit perfectly mounted vertically (with no CofG problems either).  The cockpit will be removable for access to the hatch......and so the improvements to the basic model go on and on and on  ;)
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on April 02, 2004, 21:10:02 pm
Two days since sending off my 50A ESC, got a new 35A ESC from Inwoods plus cash rebate...awesome service guys!  8)
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: tomf on April 03, 2004, 11:02:10 am
Hi Gordon

I meant weightwise. ;D

My Lanc is still in one piece and has had another flight, slight problem was that somehow I had reversed aileron differential so it was a bit hairy!!

However it survived and is now residing in my workshop waiting for the summer. If it ever gets here on the weekends I am available to go flying.

All the models are looking very good and you should be justifiably proud of the work you have all put in. My Lanc now looks very sad against what has been shown on here. :( ::)

Tomf
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on April 03, 2004, 19:25:29 pm
QuoteMy Lanc now looks very sad against what has been shown on here.
...that's how I feel about mine when I see how well Walts is doing  ;D ;D ;D ;D

Now focused on getting the ESC and battery compartment finished.  Did the airflow deflector for the rear turret last night...pleased with the effect.  Daughter had 5 friends round this afternoon, so no modelling for me  :D

Decided tonight that the cable setup for the 2 battery packs was far too involved and I'm now the proud owner of a single 14.4v pack!  Weighed the redundant cables etc and they were 80g, so Tomf, u see weight need not go on if a modification to the plan is called for!  The single pack now sits inside the 'battery compartment with loads of headroom now, so tomorrow I'll get a locking battery compartment lid made...maybe a pic if it works!  ;)


PS...where is everybody lately  ???
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Arel on April 04, 2004, 05:56:44 am
Quote from: Gordon on April 03, 2004, 19:25:29 pm
...that's how I feel about mine when I see how well Walts is doing  ;D ;D ;D ;D

<snip>

PS...where is everybody lately  ???



Gordo,

Stop being so self deprecating...pay yourself first. Notwithstanding our various disagreements, (I'm always right btw ;D), you've been doing some lovely work, if somwhat bordering on the obsessive.

I went to the motor racing yesterday-a good choice because it was a lovely day and it's p***ing down today. Great racing and, as a bonus I met Craig's brother :)

I should be able to get back into the Lanc in the next week or two as my little "Alpha Build" project is getting nearer to finishing...

Cheers,

Rich

Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on April 04, 2004, 13:12:49 pm
QuoteNotwithstanding our various disagreements, (I'm always right btw
...as I say, everyone is entitled to your opinion!   ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D   I've met this approach before..it's from SWMBO.   ;D ;D  Me? Obsessive?  Now what was the colour of those flying boots for Mk1 lanc aircrew?  8)

Started the battery panel this morning...what a beautiful day here...must get some flying in today as in Scotland u get 4 seasons in one day!  ;)  Feel a Crowded House song coming on  ;D
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Arel on April 04, 2004, 13:42:06 pm
Stop going on about the boots....Whatever colour they should be, they're definitely not meant to baby poo yellow  ;D ;D
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on April 04, 2004, 21:36:40 pm
QuoteWhatever colour they should be, they're definitely not meant to be baby poo yellow  
...more green yellow I'd say?  The baby poo I mean  ;)  Had to laugh this afternoon when I let my daughter paint the cockpit interior green.  Now the cockpit is green (good job too), plus her hands, down the side of the lanc, the workbench, get the picture?  To say I was obsessive Arel and see the lanc after our painting soiree was seeing a paradox in action...good fun too as she enjoyed it...must go now to clean the green off of her hands!  ;D ;D ;D ;D

PS..got my first flying in this afternoon...3 flights out of a single battery charge...yup there was a strong South Westerly wind and I made the most of it, as the model was a glider most of the time  :D :D
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: CraigO on April 05, 2004, 00:39:05 am
Hi all

Rich, you met my brother..  how did he do.  he was still pretty sore fromt eh shunt at melbourne when i saw him last.  I saw some of the supercar racing on TV but the weather was too good not to be flying.  So my  Me 163 and Spitfire got some good air time.  :)

Gordon  what are you going to do about the power train?  i am with Tom,  mine looks pretty tired too :(  and it was a touch too windy for me to test the 8-6 props, in the air but it certainly feels good on the ground.  I have finally given up on the rudders on my beastie.  I now have a steerable tail wheel and fixed rudders :)

no progress on the mossie but nearly finshed the gee bee Z,  24 inch span at 5 oz whooo frightening :)

and now the best bit.   im on holidays for a week!!  :):) ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

cheers all

Craig
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on April 05, 2004, 14:56:33 pm
QuoteGordon  what are you going to do about the power train?  i am with Tom,  mine looks pretty tired too
...sorry Craig, not with u on this one...do u mean the battery pack etc?  I've connected the two 7.2v packs into a 14.4v monster and it fits well into the battery bay with plenty of headroom now that the top yellow end cap has been binned (less weight too Tomf  ;) ).  The battery lid is now about finished, so only a couple of holes to drill in the frames and then the obligatory tidying up before pic time.

Noticed on the Scottish Aeromodelling Association events callander that some group called Airfoil Services will be showning off their "72' 4 engine electric lancaster" at the Scottish model Airshow this year...think we had better get down there and show how things should be done guys!  ;D
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Walts on April 05, 2004, 19:25:27 pm
Hi chaps,

Thought i better just pop in and say hi, as i havn't been around for a while.

The reason is that not much progress has been made on the lanc recently, i've been slapping a coat of dope on the fuzz and tail surfaces each day, 5 on 1 to go (Oh my god, the weight i hear you say  :o ) but there is a method to my madness and during the 'cutting back' process most of it will go again and hopefully this method will allow me to add even more detail  :-\
Also built my aileron's and hindged them and made a list of job's to do, now that scared me!!! :o I've had to hide it from SWMBO as i think she is starting to get a bit fed up with this thing! ::) ;D
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on April 05, 2004, 20:40:33 pm
QuoteI've had to hide it from SWMBO as i think she is starting to get a bit fed up with this thing!  
...tell me about it Walts?  ;D ;D

QuoteOh my god, the weight i hear you say   ) but there is a method to my madness
...there is method to mine too Walts but nobody seems to realise it!  ;D  As BD and my lanc are around 6.5lbs, I've taken that as an upper weight limit, since BD has flown his on numerous occassions without any major problems.  That's how I'm looking at mine anyway!  
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: CraigO on April 06, 2004, 08:25:48 am
Hi all

had 2 flights yesterday and one on sunday.  all with the 8-6 Props.  I can feel the difference between the 8-6 and the 9-6.  the thrust reduction is evident but it wants to fly at a lower throttle setting with the 8-6 props.  it seems to accelerate better with the 8-6's too

anyway just an observation.

Gordon,  what i meant was are you going to change the motor wiring?

Craig
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Arel on April 06, 2004, 10:53:54 am
Quote from: CraigO on April 05, 2004, 00:39:05 am
Hi all

Rich, you met my brother..  how did he do.  he was still pretty sore fromt eh shunt at melbourne when i saw him last.  I saw some of the supercar racing on TV but the weather was too good not to be flying.  So my  Me 163 and Spitfire got some good air time.  :)

<snip>

no progress on the mossie but nearly finshed the gee bee Z,  24 inch span at 5 oz whooo frightening :)

and now the best bit.   im on holidays for a week!!  :):) ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

cheers all

Craig


Craig,

To be honest, I just fronted up and said "Hi are you Roger?...I'm a mate of Craig...Say hi to him next time you see him...and tell him we don't wear dresses in NSW" ;) :D :D...or something along those lines. He wasn't doing too well (in the last five), but he was staying off the walls.

Congrats on the flights. I wish I had me a Lancaster....wait a minute...I do have a Lancaster...In fact I have two....B***er...I'd better stop making excuses and get on with them :)

I don't want to be known as a nag ;)...But when are you going to get a camera to post some pics? I for one want to see the Mossie and Gee Bee...and Vimy...etc etc :)

Cheers,

Rich
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on April 06, 2004, 21:21:24 pm
QuoteGordon,  what i meant was are you going to change the motor wiring?
...nope!  Craig..after re-reading your comments for the umpteenth time I've decided to stick with the series/parallel setup (hate that term!).  The other option of going parallel and drawing 4 amps short of my 35A ESC limit is a little too close to my comfort zone!  ;D  Your comments on the relative effects of 8x6 and 9x6 is interesting and as always it seems to be 'swings and roundabouts' on the performance.  Like u I'll try my 8x6 setup and take it from there.

Just about finished the battery panel and megga chuffed with getting 4 clear hours work on the model.  Completely removed the magnetic strips I'd fitted to secure the front turret and replaced them with velcro inset into the liteply frames (to avoid the turret being pushed out from the fuselage).  The turret had been vibrating during the motor runup, but the velcro is now a very secure method...and light too!  ;D.    
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on April 07, 2004, 20:43:12 pm
Battery lid now complete and working on the instrument panel..pic to follow soon!  ;)
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on April 07, 2004, 23:43:31 pm
Here's the panel finished tonight.  The outboard throttles are cut down steel pins and the inside ones are squashed plastic headed ones.  Same goes for the lower propellor pitch levers.  The instruments were made by lightly dipping male & female gold leckky connectors into light grey paint and carefully pressing them into the balsa.  

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Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on April 08, 2004, 23:12:14 pm
Right Guys...the last major job on the lanc (undercarriage doors excluded!) , how do I set about building the mid-upper turret fairing without using a big lump of balsa?  Walts..u made a terrific job from your last pics and BDs looks rather good too?  

All suggestions gratefully received  :D
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Arel on April 09, 2004, 02:14:37 am
Gordon,

You could use 2 or 3 layers of 1/16 or 3/32 balsa, wetted then held onto the fuse with bands till they dry. (Put a bit of clingfilm on the fuse so it doesn't get wet). This way you'll end up with the right curve to match the fuse. Then glue 'em together and sand to shape.

Rich

P.S. The panel looks the business...
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on April 09, 2004, 20:34:18 pm
QuoteThe panel looks the business...
..careful with the compliments Arel  ;) ;) ;)

Thanks for the idea, I'll use that method and shape it round a foam former!.

Here's a raft of pics taken today..it was sunny..had to make the most of it  ;D



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Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on April 09, 2004, 20:37:03 pm
Cockpit stuff.

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Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on April 09, 2004, 20:37:57 pm
The nearly finished battery panel.  Note the reinforcement needed on the top left hand corner!  ;D

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Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on April 09, 2004, 20:40:01 pm
New velcro setup for the front turret.  It will NEVER come off now!  8)

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Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on April 09, 2004, 20:40:50 pm
Title says it all.  The thing with the handle is the foam wedge for the battery pack.

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Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on April 09, 2004, 20:43:25 pm
Much the same pic but with the battery panel fitted.

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Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on April 09, 2004, 20:51:36 pm
The airflow deflector just about finished.  :o  U can see the join for the removable tail assembly in the bottom right hand corner too.

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Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Walts on April 09, 2004, 22:59:51 pm
Gordon, unfortunately there is no easy way to achieve this, I made mine by laminating 2 sheets of 1/2" i think, together after cutting them to the right shape looking from the top. I then cut a hole to take the turret, then started sanding with a curved block from the bottom until the thing sat nicely on the fuzz.  Then i shaped the top from pictures of the real thing.

Mine is still not accurate but i think i can get away with it.

Due to the curves and flats of the fairing this is the only realistic way to make a decent job of it.

Note also that there is a  'flat' to the top, sloping away from the guns.
I got mine to fit as close as possible then made it good with filler.

Hope this helps.

Walts.

P.s judging by your cool photos and my slow covering method it doesnt look like i will ever catch up with you  ;D
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on April 09, 2004, 23:13:21 pm
QuoteMine is still not accurate but i think i can get away with it.
...just had another look at your pics a few pages back Walts...looks superb to me mate!  ;)  Thanks for the info...between your gen and Arels I should be able to produce something.   ;)
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on April 10, 2004, 11:19:43 am
Just e-mailed a company in Paisley Scotland for a set of decals for the lanc....it's at www.precisionmarkings.co.uk   Let u know how much I get stung for them!  ;D
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Dek on April 10, 2004, 19:44:06 pm
Hi Gordon
I made the upper turret fairing as per original plan out of a single chunk of balsa. It worked out just fine thanks to the magic of the dremel.
Derek
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on April 10, 2004, 20:14:09 pm
Quoteout of a single chunk of balsa.
...that's the problem Dek...ain't got any!  ;D ;D
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on April 10, 2004, 23:37:36 pm
Just an idea...found locating the 2 wing mounting screws a bit of a pain, as they are screwed in down a 'tunnel' of foam.  Painted the heads white tonight, while leaving the slots unpainted black...location problem solved!  ;)

Guys...a strange feeling came over me tonight....the workbench is strangely empty.... I'm running out of jobs to do on the lanc  ::)

Jobs outstanding.......

Do the mid-upper turret deflector.
Finish the undercarriage doors (after flying it).
Finish sanding it down.
Litespan it.
Spray it.
Apply decals.
Apply for a SWMBO flight certificate.
Find my wellies & bicycle clips.
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: CraigO on April 11, 2004, 03:51:02 am
Well i am rying to keep you guys enthused with little flight tid bits.

I got 6 flights in today.  :)   MMMMAAARRRVVVEEELLLOOUUSSSSS!! :)

the 8-6 props are definitely better than the 9-6's they dont pull as hard but the model flies better. ;)

I did have some palpitations when the top hatch of my model came off,  it certainly did add a lot of drag but i got the model down OK. :)  the 10 cell packs are delivering 7 minutes of realistic flight easliy.

Gordon: go for it mate :)

Rich: I spoke to him a little while ago and he is still really sore from the prang in melbourne.  He broke a couple of ribs that still havent healed yet.

tally bally ho boys im off for a few more flights.

Craig
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on April 11, 2004, 09:01:24 am
Craig...good to hear the lanc is flying well....
QuoteI did have some palpitations when the top hatch of my model came off,  it certainly did add a lot of drag but i got the model down OK
....did u get the hatch back?

Started on the mid-upper fairing this morning..about 0230....mad I know!  ::)
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on April 11, 2004, 21:37:42 pm
First taxi today...fairly good...broke the port leg!  ;D  Knew that bl##dy pin was too weak, so going to braze a triangular support on the front of the pin on each leg.  The first lanc modification (of many)!  8)  Glad it happened now rather than ........!  ;)  
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Arel on April 12, 2004, 08:35:38 am
Gordon,

You're getting close to the time that your Lanc sees some air under its wings. I hope that the local ATC/SWMBO authorised your taxi tests ;D or you might get into a bit of trouble if the conditions are ok and you "taxi" a bit over the "unstick" speed ;) ;D

You've also forgoten to list an extra large/extra gentle :)  binbag for your "to do" list ;) ;D


Craig,

Sounds like you're just like the kid in the candy shop :). Your brother did ok...Eastern Creek has a LOT of walls and he managed to avoid all of them... I'd trade in all of my planes for a regular drive of a Porsche GT3 like this...

Cheers,

Rich

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on April 12, 2004, 14:43:17 pm
Quoteyou might get into a bit of trouble if the conditions are ok and you "taxi" a bit over the "unstick" speed
.....my grass is much too uneven for that Arel.  ;)  Hence the dodgy broken leg pin.  I have a nice straight road outside my cottage that has a very low volume of traffic though??????????  I wonder?  ::)
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: CraigO on April 13, 2004, 04:30:06 am
Hi guys

I certainly am a kid with a new toy,  the lanc just gets better and better.  now that i have a steerable tail wheel i am taxiing out to the strip and back at the end of the flight.  my battery packs are certanily performing better than they were in the first few flights too.  the last fight i did on the weekend was over 9 minutes and i still had plenty to get back to the flight line.  

with a small amount of breeze the take off run can be really short.  down to 30 feet or so, if you like.  the elevator is really responsive at slow speed, but the model is pretty tough to stall.  I was flying around, really high :), will full up elevator at 1/3 throttle and it was just really mushy.  I didnt want to put it into a spin because i cant ever see it as necessary and the ful size certainly didnt like it much :(

Get Building!!!

Craig
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on April 13, 2004, 23:51:39 pm
Well, the mid-upper fairing is on and drying, so a couple of nights work and the balsa work is practically finished.  I've been re-brazing the undercarriage pins and reinforced them, so they'll be finished by the end of the week..then a more optimistic taxi test!  
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on April 14, 2004, 20:50:43 pm
Got an e-mail from that guy in Paisley re the decal set...£12 to do them, had to ask if the nose art was included.  If so, I'm tempted to just order a set, as I don't have much time in my day to fiddle about with Coral or other such software.  ::)

Will attempt to get the new 'Gordon-Proof' undercarriage pins brazed before the end of the week, but this damn job just gets in the way!  ;)
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Walts on April 15, 2004, 19:52:30 pm
I've been off work for 5 days, so i thought ahhh, lots of modelling time, but shmbo had other idea's, she packed the kids off to there nans so we could go out everyday free of the stress of the kids, well i suppose a honeymoon period was in order really.  Still she gave me two clear days on the lanc, what a 'top bird',  ;D so i managed to knock out quite a bit of work at last!!

I've managed to get a good finish on the fuzz and tail surfaces,
cover and dope the ailerons,
make my tail hatch,
make my battery hatch, (twice, to small the first time)
make cockpit opening,
fit front turret fairing,
fit front air vents,
fit elevatorss permantley,
make 2 internal push rods and fit 2 servos (rudder and elevator)
fill the wing nacelles,
sand wing ready for covering.

Once i've got the wing covered and doped and cut back again, i'll have this thing licked.

Just main and tail u/c to make, and doors to fit, ailerons to fit, make and fit the 8 carb intakes, run the motors in and fit them, fit the spinners, set up all the gear properly, and then move on to the spray job! Oh and then start detailing the cockpit.  oh well still away to go yet then.

Walts
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on April 15, 2004, 22:13:39 pm
Walts....impressive 48 hours and no mistake!  I found myself making so much progress on the new brazing of the undercarriage that I thought I might get u all fed up with my cheery disposition, so I decided to melt one of my tyres while brazing in-situ.  Now I feel so much better with 3 steps forward and 4 back.  Was it Craig that fitted those super Dubro (is that the name?) tyres...now I can order some...sorry cheery again!  

Why do the smilies not work...oopps, might be too cheery again.
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on April 15, 2004, 22:14:15 pm
Walts....impressive 48 hours and no mistake!  I found myself making so much progress on the new brazing of the undercarriage that I thought I might get u all fed up with my cheery disposition, so I decided to melt one of my tyres while brazing in-situ.  Now I feel so much better with 3 steps forward and 4 back.  Was it Craig that fitted those super Dubro (is that the name?) tyres...now I can order some...sorry cheery again!  

Found the treaded 3.5" Dubro wheels at £6.19 plus P&P at Sussex Model Centre, so now on order..hey Craig we've got the same wheels now!  More scale like eh?  ;)  Sorry gone cheery again!   ;D
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: CraigO on April 16, 2004, 02:37:13 am
I am taking mine up to another club on the weekend where there are a couple of other guys that are either finsihed or nearly finished lanc like you guys are building.

when they are finished that will be quite a site.  3 lancs in formation.  obviously not scale like, cos lancs hardly ever flew in formation :)

anyway i have now built both halves of the mossie fuz,  and the fin and horizontal stabiliser.  I am hoping to get the rudder and elevators done over the weekend.

then i can finish the wing and fuz.  all looking good.  the fuz halves empty weigh under 4 oz!  but the feel pretty strong.  I am saving my pennies to buy the batteries now.  the lopos will cost something like $400 australian!

nice wheels gordon i can assure you!

cheers
Craig
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Arel on April 16, 2004, 05:54:14 am
I bought a video called Lancaster and B17 for 7 bucks yesterday...I've watched it three times already ;D

Nearly finished the O-2, so I'll be able to get into the Lanc again soon.
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: CraigO on April 16, 2004, 08:02:18 am
I am impressed Rich, you actually seem to be focusing on one project at a time.  :)

I cant help but have a couple on the go concurrently.

at the moment it is Gee Bee, 109, and mossie oh and a 2 meter flying wing

I finally added the frame lines onto the canopy of the lanc but i still havent put on the gear doors.  what a slacker!

cheers all

Craig
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Arel on April 16, 2004, 09:28:00 am
Quote from: CraigO on April 16, 2004, 08:02:18 am
I am impressed Rich, you actually seem to be focusing on one project at a time.  :)

I cant help but have a couple on the go concurrently.

at the moment it is Gee Bee, 109, and mossie oh and a 2 meter flying wing

I finally added the frame lines onto the canopy of the lanc but i still havent put on the gear doors.  what a slacker!

cheers all

Craig


Craig,

Don't get me wrong...I still have to focus on the Lanc occasionally...It's spread all over the lounge floor and I have to step over it to get to the VCR/TV/Balcony Door ;) ;D

If it isn't finished before you start on the Vimy, it might find itself carpeted over..

Ahh crunchy bits ;D

Rich
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Walts on April 16, 2004, 09:58:19 am
Gordon i also clocked CraigO's wheels a while back and thought they looked the dogs dangallies, have you got contact details for the shop you ordered yours from? and is that £6 a pair or each? cause i've seen some wheels in my local shop that are £6 each and dont look anywhere near as good.

Well another day out with the wife, but at least this time i got the choice of where to go, so we're off to the RAF museum at hendon. A chance to have a close up look again at s for sugar.  ;D enjoy your day, i know i am going to enjoy mine!! ;D ;D

cheers Walts.
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on April 16, 2004, 15:29:55 pm
QuoteFound the treaded 3.5" Dubro wheels at £6.19 plus P&P at Sussex Model Centre,
...Walts that's for a pair!  Once they get here I'll put a pic on and the part number too.  Should be here in a day or so.
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Walts on April 16, 2004, 21:30:40 pm
Cheers Gordon, i look forward to seeing those wheels when you post them.

Had a great day at hendon today s for sugar looks superb standing there in all her glory proudly displaying the bomb symbols that represent the 125 raids she carried out over germany.  Everytime the wife lost me she just made her way back to the Lanc where she would find me drooling over it  ;D and say there you are you little perv!! :-\ ;D Gave me a chance to study some of the detail up close and got me thinking again about those u/c doors.  A great day and a much needed injection of encouragement to get this thing finished.

walts
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on April 17, 2004, 12:42:19 pm
Walts...got the wheels in this morning and they look really naff, i think we need to ask Craig for the Dubro Part Number, as the ones I've received look too 'toy like' for my taste.

So Craig...help!  ;)

Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on April 17, 2004, 23:00:39 pm
PS...done some more research tonight Walts.  The only diamond treaded wheel that Dubro do is a 3" diameter one (3.5" looks more scale in my opinion).  However, after having another look at my lanc 'bible' the diamond tread tyre was NOT used on B Mk1 & 3 aircraft.  It only appears on later Mk7 aircraft and post-war lanc/lancastrians/lincolns etc.  

So what do I do with my new set that have a scale hub, but the MK 1 & 3 were mainly smooth pattern and these are 'crossply' pattern?  Ah decisions, decisions!

Think I'll fit these, even though the diamond ones look superb, if a tage small!  (look at the Tower Hobbies site Walts for some good pics of the tyres).  Incidentally, couldn't find a UK dealer on the web who stocked the diamond pattern..hope u are more successful.  

PS...saw 'S for Sugar' in my spotty youth way back in about 1974..just a year before I joined the RAF...must have done the trick for me  ;D  
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Arel on April 18, 2004, 04:06:56 am
When I was in England in '88-89, the first place I visited was Hendon. I think it had a Beverley or something similar out front...and a whole lot of goodies inside :). I must come back one day...

Gordon, Those wheels would look really good on a P 51 ;D. Maybe once you do the Halifax...
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on April 18, 2004, 13:51:48 pm
QuoteI think it had a Beverley or something similar out front
..............as a spotty RAF engineering apprentice I carried a number of ground runs on an aircraft of a similar era...an Argosy...awesome experience for a 19 year old.

Arel...I'll stick with these Dubro 'crossply's"...having looked at the pics, these wheels look more scale at the hub than my melted versions, even if they aren't smooth in cross section!  I need to re-braze a joint tomorrow, then I'll get them assembled this week.  Then it's sanding down and sanding down and sanding down before starting the litespan covering.

The Priory lanc on the E-zone is busy and have a look at BomberGuys turret....impressive stuff.  There's an i/c lanc on there too...not so impressive  ;)
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Walts on April 18, 2004, 17:31:09 pm
Gordon, thanks for the info, that tower model site certainly shows a good selection of wheels, Did you notice on about the 6th page there is another option for diamond tread tyres, i think they were robart but only came in 3 1/4 or 3 3/4 inch dia. and were quite expensive at about £11 to £12.  I think i'll wait till i've designed my u/c gear before commiting to wheels. Also where do i find this e.zone thread??

Arel, i remember going to Hendon as a kid and seeing a big flying boat outside, i think it was a sunderland, its not there no more but they have got a walk through sunderland in the battle of britain hanger, possiby the same one, very interesting to see the inside of this huge aircraft.

Walts
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: CraigO on April 19, 2004, 00:58:10 am
HI all

when it comes to the wheels.. Ahh well mmmm...  i dont actually have the part numbers but they are only the 75mm ones (3 inch)  I know they aer smaller than they should be but i want adding another couple of ounces when i didnt need to. :)  in all of the books i have gathered they all seem to have parallel treads rather than the cross pattern that are on my wheels.  I have got a set of larger 3.5 inch wheels but i am keeping them for the mossie.

had another 4 flights on the weekend but  :(  I handed the transmitter over to a buddy of mine who, completely unaware of the fragility of the air frame  :-\ was trying some pretty radical manouvres   :-[....and of course the predictably thing happened.   :'(

all i can say is he has agreed to fix it!


the top turret i mean where the transmitter ariel landed and broke the top turret. :)

he he

Rich,  yes that is right i am also working on the plans for the Vimy and i have done a heap of work on the DR1 plans and i am going to get a trial short kit cut. I already have orders for about 10 or so, but there isnt much point going on with them until i prove the design again.  We are trying to put together a WWI dog fight team in our club to take on some of the other model clubs in Adelaide.  I have modified the original DR1 design i made to use CF arrow shafts as leading edges. :)

cheers all

Craig
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Tree_Magnet on April 19, 2004, 04:22:26 am
Hey all was at the Toronto air and space muesum yesterday and they just started restoring a lanc. It was on a pedistal for many years and is in rough shape. i am going to post pic on my web site when i get it up in the next day or 2.

Tom
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: CraigO on April 19, 2004, 06:45:42 am
hi all

i have heard that there is a lanc in Perth that you can still get a tour through if you know the right people.  I would love to do that.

G for George at the war memorial in australia is sensational :)

Craig
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on April 19, 2004, 11:51:08 am
TM..long time no hear?  Walts...the E-Zone is at www.rcgroups.com/forums  That gets me right into the zone and just select electric flight.  

Craig...sorry to hear of the battle damage, second pilot not up to it eh?  ;)  Send him back to the OCU!  Yes, was tempted with those diamond patterns and being slightly lighter would be a bonus when my model is concerned, but dammit man, I want it as scale as a semi-scale can be  ;D  So the 'crossply' tyres are getting fitted today.
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on April 19, 2004, 13:03:45 pm
Quotea lanc in Perth
....had to look at who was typing this Craig.....Australia!!!   ;D ;D

Regards, a disappointed Scot (about 150 miles North of the REAL Perth)  ::)
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Walts on April 19, 2004, 17:15:34 pm
Hi all,

Regarding these tyres, i make gordon right all the war time photos i've seen appear to have smooth sections, but i still like the look of the diamond tread's, they tend to give the model more of an air of realism, and also although i appreciate they arn't original, s for sugar at Hendon is sporting them, (well kind of, she's got one diamond tread and one hexagonal tread) and they look pretty cool on her.

Tissued all my wing, so thats all the covering done, just got to dope it up half a dozen times!! then cut it back ready for shaping.

Walts
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on April 19, 2004, 20:26:31 pm
QuoteTissued all my wing, so thats all the covering done, just got to dope it up half a dozen times!! then cut it back ready for shaping
....Walts, where do u get the TIME?  U are going like a rocket and no mistake...or maybe I'm just too slow!   ;)

Like the odd tyres on 'S for Sugar' Walts...as she is a B Mk1 (or Mk3 if she has Packard Merlins these days?), she should have smooth tyres if u want her to be 1941-42 (ish) vintage.  The escape clause is that I would expect those tyres to be upgraded as the war progressed, as the airfields began to be metalled with peritracks and runways (Dunlop had a lanc on tyre trials post-45 with a square edged smooth tyre!).  I agree 100% that those 3" diamond treads look the business, but as I fitted my 'crossply's' today I'll stick with them until my first 'blowout'!  (or more likely lend my TX for someone else to fly it Craig?)   ;)
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Walts on April 20, 2004, 11:23:19 am
oops just reread my post i meant spraying not shaping  :-[

After saying i was going to hold fire on the tyres only 2 post's ago, i popped into a shop i frequent sometimes on the way home from work to get something else, and low and behold they had Robart diamond treaded tyres hanging on the wall, but the icing on the cake was that unlike tower models that only advertise 3 1/4 or 3 3/4 inch dia's these where bang on the button at 3 1/2 inch, i couldnt help myself, so i am now the proud owner of a pair of goodyear all weather diamond tread wheels, (now tell me goodyear's were never used on the Lanc's gordon  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D )   I'll post a pic when i've done a bit of work on them.

Walts.
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Walts on April 20, 2004, 12:03:48 pm
Quote from: Gordon on April 19, 2004, 20:26:31 pm
Walts, where do u get the TIME?  


Working a good shift system gives me lots of day's at home, but i owe it mostly to a very, very understanding wife ;)
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on April 20, 2004, 12:48:21 pm
Quote(now tell me goodyear's were never used on the Lanc's gordon  
...isn't Goodyear an American company?  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D  Dunno really, but got a feeling it isn't British dammit man!  ;D ;D ;D ;D

I used to have a great shift system many moons ago, so now have to 'scrape by' until I get my 55 days off..plus off course you've got an understanding missus..now that does make a difference!  ::)

Robarts..mmmm, pics soon I hope, then I'll be totally cheesed off  ;D

I've nearly finished painting my undercarriage for the
'n' th time, so one job less to do.  Must start the sanding down soon.

Craig..what's the extent of the lanc's repairs?
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Walts on April 20, 2004, 17:46:05 pm
Right again gordon  ;D Goodyear and Robart are both american, these wheels are designed for P40, P51 and Harvards. They come with 3 options of hubs either open wheel, smooth hub or spoked hub.  The problem is you only get 2 of each!

Here is the first picture as they came out of the packet.

Hope to post my improved Lanc version later today  ;D once the paint had dried!!

(http://rcmf.co.uk/old-uploads/wheels.jpg)
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Walts on April 20, 2004, 19:04:16 pm
Here it is, my new improved Robart Lanc wheel's!

I used the smooth hubs as starters, dremmeled slots around them (shame about my shaky hand, this dope is good gear man! ;D ;D )
I then cut smaller disc's from thin plastic card and glued on top to represent scale detail.  Then i fabricated 2 identical hubs from plastic card for the other sides, inserted the supplied bushes and sprayed.
Its been fun today better then watching dope dry.  ;D

Walts

(http://rcmf.co.uk/old-uploads/wheels1.jpg)

(http://rcmf.co.uk/old-uploads/wheels2.jpg)

Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Walts on April 20, 2004, 19:17:45 pm
P.s i suspect that war time lanc's had black hubs, but this is the picture i was working from.

Walts.


(http://rcmf.co.uk/old-uploads/pic.JPG)
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on April 20, 2004, 22:33:15 pm
Trouble with most wartime shots is that the hub IS black and is about a third of the diameter of the inflated tyre.  That is the only thing the Dubro 3.5" tyre is good for, it looks in proportion for all its 'crossply' tread and the spokes look sort of accurate(ish)!  ::)  

Walts....NICE work (as usual  ;D ).  That pic of the lanc is from the Canadian 'Moose' Squadron...it's a B Mk X..almost in the jet age!  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D  
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: CraigO on April 21, 2004, 01:15:04 am
Great work Walts., those wheels look sensational.

How much do they weigh?  , might look for a pair for the mossie if they are light. :)

time for ome more pics guys i am dying to see how these two beauties look :)

Making progress on the mossie.  Rin and rudder done, horizontal stab also done,  now into the interesting bits,  anyone know anything about latex moulds?  I am thinking of doing the pilots and a couple of other bits this way?

cheers

Craig
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on April 21, 2004, 08:56:08 am
Quoteanyone know anything about latex moulds?/quote]....try the missus  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Walts on April 21, 2004, 09:06:27 am
Hi CraigO, how are you?

Dont really know about the weight, i havn't got any scales sensitive enough yet (i'll send the missus over the post office later and get her to way them on there scales ;D ) There advertised as low bounce light weight wheels, but there not the lightest i've ever seen.  My Lanc hasn't progressed much visually since my last photo's cause i've spent a lot of time doing internal stuff and covering, Can't wait to get on to the spray job, but still got a way to go yet with finishing off.

I really should get some scales, but i don't want to scare myself just yet!!! :o ;D

Walts.

P.s I know this is a Lanc thread, but i for one would be very keen to see photo's of your Mosquito's progress, its another model i've been meaning to make myself for sometime.
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on April 21, 2004, 13:20:23 pm
QuoteI know this is a Lanc thread, but i for one would be very keen to see photo's of your Mosquito's progress, its another model i've been meaning to make myself for sometime.
...I'll go along with that Walts.  My wheels aren't exactly light either  8)  I'm now over 6.5lbs!  Must do some weight reduction...the thickness of some of the frames is an obvious area my Dremel can look at!
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Walts on April 21, 2004, 15:55:42 pm
Quote from: CraigO on April 21, 2004, 01:15:04 am


How much do they weigh?  , might look for a pair for the mossie if they are light. :)





CraigO,

0.142kg according to my post office scales, thats for the pair, about 5 ounces i think  ??? Thats after dressing up.

Walts.
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Walts on April 21, 2004, 15:59:31 pm
Gordon, i don't know what mine is going to come up at, But i won't weigh it till its finished otherwise i might start compromising to much on the finish.  I prefer to try and conciously build as light as possible during construction.  It seems that the best way for you to shed weight effectively would be to go down to an 8 cell single pack like the original design.  I am hoping that will be my saviour!!

Walts.
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Walts on April 21, 2004, 18:19:39 pm
DAMMIT, What a time to check back through my Lanc books just after i've finished my wheels.  A lot of early Lanc's, including this prototype did have alloy hub's but they had holes around the rims not slots, which would have been a lot easier to make.

Just going in the garden to burn my canadian Lanc book, b****y thing!! >:(


(http://rcmf.co.uk/old-uploads/mymodellibary033.jpg)

Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Walts on April 21, 2004, 20:14:07 pm
Quote from: Gordon on April 20, 2004, 22:33:15 pm
and the spokes look sort of accurate(ish)!  ::)  





Gordon i've looked through all my Lanc pic's and cant see any with spoked wheels.

****Deep breathe in****
Now before you put on your kilt and battle paint and start charging towards the boarder screaming 'Kill the english' this isnt a dig  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D, so hear me out.  ;) When i looked again at the Du-Bros i thought if you cut 4 disc's from 0.5mm plastic then drilled holes around the edge, you could then glue with cyno 1 at a time to your hubs, Then drill through from the other side before adding the second hub, then paint them either black or alluminium.  Now with your small hubs and balloon tyres you will have very realistic Lanc wheel's for the sake of an hours work.

The important bit is to trim the hole in the fake hubs back to the real hubs as you dont want the weight of your lanc sitting on 0.5mm of plastic....*****breathes out***** Phew!!! ;D

Looking back i wish i'd taken this route
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Walts on April 21, 2004, 20:16:59 pm
Looking back over this last page, i'm feeling very much like WaltsNoMates ;D

Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on April 21, 2004, 21:04:24 pm
QuoteLooking back over this last page, i'm feeling very much like WaltsNoMates
...no problems Walts, I've left my claymore secure over the open fire for now!  ;D ;D ;D

Now here's more info (I really do need a life!)...the B (Special) aircraft had 'crossply' style tyres fitted for greater grip due to Tallboy/Grand Slam loadings!  Pity mine is a B Mk1  ::)  U are right about weighing the model in stages, as I did a long while back and got crucified for every thing I fitted to the lanc as 'too heavy'.  I think my lanc will finally weigh in at around 7 lbs.  Sounds horrendous and it is TOO heavy, but u hit the nail on the head with the battery weight..it's just too heavy and the 8 cell is the way ahead (or LiPo...as I've been talking to some guys on the E-zone about them...seems they are twice the price of NiMg ? but a third of the weight? ).  New charger needed too, but might go along that path once I look at THE model I want to build..a 78 Squadron B Mk111 Halifax).  Nice to have it as a 78Squadron one as that was the last Squadron I served on before leaving the RAF...and no, I wasn't old enough to service them...the squadron flew Chinooks!  ;)

Having done a fag-packet calculation a LiPo pack would save a pound in weight...mmmm  8)
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: CraigO on April 22, 2004, 03:36:07 am
lipos might just be the diet your lanc needs Gordon :)

I was looking at the weights for my mossie and i can save 20 oz by going to lipos and i will go from 3300mAh to 5800mAh.

I have just taken a bunch of photos of the mossie so i will post them once they are developed.

Walts
my wheels weighed 19Gms for both.  these guys are really LIGHT!

I am very much lookng forward to seeing pics your models they will of course put mine to shame and i will be jumping on it accordingly! :)

cheers

Craig
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Arel on April 22, 2004, 11:41:28 am
Walts,

Nice work on the wheels. You're not talking to yourself, most of us check in daily...I just haven't had anything to add for a while.

I will add to the Lipo discussion with Lipo Haiku ;D


Lipos are sexy
Lipos are exxy
The danger adds to the fun...

Lipos are light
But the price isn't right
Beware flash fires when charging...

NiMhs go hsss
NiCds go fssss
Lipos go off like Daisycutterssss...

Rich
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on April 22, 2004, 13:05:02 pm
We've now got a poet...an Oz one!   :o  Must price these babies and shock myself out of the idea  ;D  
Quoteby going to lipos and i will go from 3300mAh to 5800mAh.
....mmm...tempting.....more time flying!

Looked at Overlanders site and a 7.4V 1500Ma LiPo pack is nearly £30 (ouch), but it weighs only 66g...amazin'!  If I doubled them up (I assume I can?) then it would weigh 615g LESS than my NiMh pack...that's moving towards 1.5lbs in real money!
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Walts on April 22, 2004, 20:04:28 pm
Hi all

Gordon dont mean to be all doom and gloom, correct me if im wrong, but i toyed with the idea of Lipo's and tried to read up on them (it all got far to confusing for me ;D ) But i understand that not only do you need a lipo charger, but also these batteries must not drop below 3v per cell otherwise they become u/s, so you also need a special speed controller to cut the power drain before 3v is reached.  If this is true you are looking at a new s/c as well as battery pack and charger!!

But hey spend your money first and let me know if it works and i'll be following right behind  ;D ;D ;D

cheers
Walts.
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Walts on April 22, 2004, 20:09:28 pm
Quote from: Arel on April 22, 2004, 11:41:28 am
Walts,

You're not talking to yourself, most of us check in daily...I just haven't had anything to add for a while.




Thats ok, im used to it with the missus, she checks in daily and doesnt have much to say either........ ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on April 22, 2004, 23:38:18 pm
Quoteshe checks in daily and doesnt have much to say either
...lucky sod  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Walts on April 23, 2004, 19:52:42 pm
Ordered some special parts to make my u/c gear with yesterday.  If there any good i'l post some pic's in a few days of the finished legs.  ;)

Finished dopeing my wing, just got to cut it back.  I am in the process of making the 8 carb intakes, so its getting closer to being ready for spraying.

Gordon how did you make your tail wheel yoke? Thats another job i've still got to do.

Cheers Walts.
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on April 23, 2004, 23:17:56 pm
Hi Walts...my tailwheel assembly was a Dubro effort.  It consisted of a bracket and 1.5" diameter tailwheel, Dubro Catalogue number is 377 for the bracket, but can't find the number for the wheel sorry.  I bent the bracket back to the right angle for the lanc and added a brass tube to create a 'Y' frame for the wheel.  Here's a pic.  PS..the wheel is a Dubro too.  I'm off into Inverness tomorrow, so I'll see if the model shop has some plasticard to modify those mainwheels (and the tail wheel too, before u comment Walts!  ;D ).
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Arel on April 24, 2004, 02:05:16 am
Quote from: Gordon on April 22, 2004, 13:05:02 pm
We've now got a poet...an Oz one!   :o  Must price these babies and shock myself out of the idea  ;D  
Quoteby going to lipos and i will go from 3300mAh to 5800mAh.
....mmm...tempting.....more time flying!

Looked at Overlanders site and a 7.4V 1500Ma LiPo pack is nearly £30 (ouch), but it weighs only 66g...amazin'!  If I doubled them up (I assume I can?) then it would weigh 615g LESS than my NiMh pack...that's moving towards 1.5lbs in real money!


Gordon,

It isn't as simple as that. Along with a 1C charge rate, most Lipos don't like a discharge rate over about 6C.
So 1500Mah packs would be good for about 9A continuous discharge...

You have to parallel the packs together to allow a higher amp draw, so in your case you might need four of those Lipo packs...

The weight goes up, but still a lot less than what you've got already...

The price goes up too ~ 120 pounds

As a bonus you're duration will be of lion (animal not battery) proportions, and you'll only have to land when you need to empty your wellies ;D

Rich

P.S. Some of the newer (read more expensive ::)) Lipos are supposed to be able to handle 10C+ discharge
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Walts on April 24, 2004, 08:03:38 am
Thanks for the info Gordon, The tail wheel looks great 8)

Back to work today, so that will slow me down.

Cheers
Walts.
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on April 24, 2004, 11:29:06 am
Walts..glad to be of help.  :D

Arel...so these LiPos need parallel connections...I didn't know that at all...VERY much appreciated and as u say they are still getting my interest, if not monetary at the moment!  ;)  incidentally, what's this 'C' unit LiPos have, like u said
QuoteLipos don't like a discharge rate over about 6C
...u then equated that to 9A discharge?  Is 'C' for coulombs? One confused guy here!

Guys on the Priory lanc are doing well on the E-Zone!  ::)

I have e-mailed that guy in Paisley twice now with no reply about supplying the Spirit of Russia's decals...weird way to conduct business?  :-[
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: keithatrochdale on April 24, 2004, 12:10:15 pm
C = cell capacity

1200mAh gives C= 1.2 Amp

1700mAh gives C=1.7Amp

Charging and discharge rates are normally given as a C figure, (includes Nicads and NiHms), so Lipolys that are rates at 5C and of 1200mAh capacity can give 6amp discharge, normal practice is to charge at C (1.2Amp in this case), going above this can reduce the number of charge/discharge cycles the cells will take.

Now with Lipoly cells, unlike Nicads & Nims to increase the current available you can use the cells in parrellel and it also gives you a bigger capacity, 2 x 1200 in parrellel = 2400, then 5C x 2400 = 12Amp discharge.

To get higher voltages you connect cells in series (+ to -), so 2 cells gives 7.4volts (2 x 3.7v).

Now if want 7.4v at 12A discharge you use 2 cells in series, with another 2 cells in series connected in parrellel, which gives you your 12A and a capacity of 2400mAh in this case - easy init!   ;)

To charge them you would use 2 x C, 2.4Amp.

Cell voltage must not go below 3volts per cell or they are DEAD

Charge too fast and they explode!

They are light for the capacity and prices are dropping daily. They are safe if treated with respect.

Hope this makes some sense and has not confused you more, I am only just starting to understand these cells and there will be other people with much better knowledge then me.

It seems good practice to check cell voltages after charge occasionally as they can become unbalanced and could allow one cell to drop below 3v when in use, thus destroying it.

keith  8)
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: CraigO on April 25, 2004, 02:50:45 am
Hi all

I ordered the Lipos for my mossie last night.  3s2p tanics pricey but...
have a look on the Tanic site for details.  www.Tanic.com i think.  weach cell in the pack weighs 52gms and there are 6 cells in cach pack,  buyt that will give me 5200MAh and these can be pushed pretty hard.  even so i will be under 6C.

i posted some pics of my mossie on RCSCALEBUILER.COM  here is the URL.

http://www.rcscalebuilder.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=984&TPN=2

i think that this model will be the one i catch up with you guys on detail.  :) i am chasing down pictures of the mossie cockpit and i am going to try to make my own pilots  ;)  ah well it is all fun.  the plans for this model done give all of the info you need for some things. noting like winging it!

Walts that undercarriage is awork of art well worth the little bit of extra weight.  you can always go up a cell if you need more power :)

Cheers all

Craig
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on April 25, 2004, 05:35:34 am
Quote.  www.Tanic.com i think
...tried the link Craig..got wines, magic mushrooms and cannabis seeds...ahemmm!  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Keith...mucho thanks for your input...it was VERY informative and now makes much more sense.   ;)

Here's the pack for me from ElectricFlight, but the cost...ouch!

FlightPower Pro 4s4p 8000 (SLIM)..Details

14.8V 8000mAh nominal, Pro spec (Slim) Strengthened LiPo Pack for Logo 10.  Price: £220.00 (£220.00 Inc. VAT).  333.95 EUR.  Weighs in at about 220 grammes less than mine too  :'(    
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Arel on April 25, 2004, 10:10:32 am
Quote from: keithatrochdale on April 24, 2004, 12:10:15 pm
C = cell capacity

1200mAh gives C= 1.2 Amp

1700mAh gives C=1.7Amp

Charging and discharge rates are normally given as a C figure, (includes Nicads and NiHms), so Lipolys that are rates at 5C and of 1200mAh capacity can give 6amp discharge, normal practice is to charge at C (1.2Amp in this case), going above this can reduce the number of charge/discharge cycles the cells will take.



Sorry Gordon, I forgot to explain that bit :)



QuoteIt seems good practice to check cell voltages after charge occasionally as they can become unbalanced and could allow one cell to drop below 3v when in use, thus destroying it.

keith  8)



I saw a review on the Ezone, of a LiPo battery pack that had individual connectors to each cell (as well as the main output connectors), so you could easily check each cell voltage and charge them individually if necessary...

ezonemag.com

Another good idea with LiPos is to make a charging "safe" or "kiln"...something like a ceramic flower pot would work, so if you have an explosion it's contained and doesn't burn down your house or car :o :o

Rich
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Arel on April 25, 2004, 10:15:43 am
Quote from: Gordon on April 25, 2004, 05:35:34 am
Quote.  www.Tanic.com i think
...tried the link Craig..got wines, magic mushrooms and cannabis seeds...ahemmm!  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Keith...mucho thanks for your input...it was VERY informative and now makes much more sense.   ;)

Here's the pack for me from ElectricFlight, but the cost...ouch!

FlightPower Pro 4s4p 8000 (SLIM)..Details

14.8V 8000mAh nominal, Pro spec (Slim) Strengthened LiPo Pack for Logo 10.  Price: £220.00 (£220.00 Inc. VAT).  333.95 EUR.  Weighs in at about 220 grammes less than mine too  :'(    



Gordon,


Don't forget that you will need a charger capable of charging those LiPos as well...Some of the Schultzes will do it, or the Astroflight 109 charger ($125 US) can do up to 9 cells in series and 5 amps (check the details...it's Sunday (turps) night. ;D)

Rich
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: keithatrochdale on April 25, 2004, 10:22:46 am
These cells used with care work well, but as Ariel says mistreat them and they take no prisnors!

A number of the moden chargers will charge upto 3 cells in series, carging times may wary, the highter capacity the longer the time.

Some of the pilots find that with such a high capacity they only have to charge them once for a days flying, others start the day with a full charge and top-up between flights, they do not have to full charge, but the extra charge increases flying time.

keith  8)
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Arel on April 25, 2004, 10:30:35 am
Craig,

Thanks for the link to rcscalebuilder, theres another one for my "favorites"

Lovely work on the Mossie. If you need some detail shots of the cockpit, I have a couple of books on the Mossie and I can send you an email with pics of the cockpit layout etc.

Rich
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Walts on April 25, 2004, 21:21:09 pm
Hi chaps, sorry for butting into your conversation about batteries but its all getting to confusing for me!

my special parts i ordered for my u/c where oleo legs from eurokit. The smallest they do are 110mm so they still needed cutting down by 10mm.

These legs are designed for single strut applications. but i nicked some idea's straight from that guy doing the beaufighter, took the idea's round my fathers who is a master model builder and engineer and he engineered a beautiful box frame for me (thanks dad) which i've fitted my wheels to and added the 'v' strut.  I know the tube sections are a bit on the thick side but like i said these oleo legs are the smallest available and are sprung loaded, so suspension as well!!

Mind you, even Gordon will admit i've finally over done it with these things, there not the lightest option but they should absorb the landing stress, thats provided i can get it in the air in the first place  ;D ;D ;D

(http://rcmf.co.uk/old-uploads/lancwheel1.JPG)


(http://rcmf.co.uk/old-uploads/lancwheel2.JPG)
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Walts on April 25, 2004, 21:27:26 pm
CraigO, i looked at your mossie photo's, it looks superb  8)  Thats the exact plan that i've had in the cupboard for the past ten years that i never got round to building, seeing yours has renewed my interest to dig it out of the cupboard again.
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on April 27, 2004, 15:32:09 pm
Sorry I haven't seen your mossie stuff Craig...sounds impressive and must make the effort once I've shaken off this cold  :-[

Walts....u got me worried about those undercarriages, as they are very close to my 'pre-modification' design.  Is the pin that locates into the retract casing just brazed onto the top of the horizontal frame?  Mine was too weak and I brazed a second length of round bar onto the front of the pin to reinforce it.  Don't want to be a party pooper, just thought it would save u time dismantling to fix it.  ;)

Started to cover my rudders today.  Slow but rewarding work.  Just something I've noticed about Litespan.  I applied the heat-sensitive PVA (or that's what Balsaloc looks and smells like  ;) ) and it is still good to use after I put it on the balsa 2 weeks ago...impressive I thought.  ;)  

Found another site that has LiPo 14.7v 6000Ma packs for £175..about £45 cheaper than ElectricFlight but still really expensive.  >:(  Add the charger etc....!  The pack is 130g lighter than my NiMn pack and has about 2.5 times higher capacity.

Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on April 27, 2004, 15:44:21 pm
Before I forget, the guy in Paisley was ill hence no replies to my e-mails.  He'll do a decal set with nose art for £12.  He can't track down a pic of the 'Spirit of Russia' so I'll do some leg work for him and with a bit of luck they will be done next month.  He gave me a good tip, in that if I'm using waterslide decals (which I am), I should use 'Microsol' to soften the decal once it's applied.  This chemical softens the decal and makes it mould more realistically to the contours of the wing.
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Walts on April 27, 2004, 15:46:01 pm
Gordon, no the metal pin passes right through the solid alloy top member and is held in with a 4mm grub screw.  The same method is used on both legs i.e a metal pin passes through the top bar and well into the leg, so hopefully its quite strong.

Still waiting for the other pair of legs to turn up, as i had to order from 2 different shops due to lack of stock in the country.

sorry to hear your not well gordon, is your sickness the type to give you plenty of modelling time ;D
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on April 27, 2004, 15:53:08 pm
Quotesorry to hear your not well Gordon, is your sickness the type to give you plenty of modelling time
..........nope  ;D  Back to work for the rest of the week... :-[

That undercarriage looks and sounds like a work of art Walts!  ;)

More covering done today, so the tail assembly is just about a third done.  Painfully slow progress.   Noticed that as I'd done the awkward bits in Humbrol matt black it was a slight mis-match with the black of the litespan.  However, where the balsalock had gone onto the Humbrol paint it dried a perfect match to the Litespan...now that WAS luck!  ;D
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Walts on April 29, 2004, 20:30:51 pm
tell me about it gordon, I don't think i am ever going to get the finish i was hoping for on this thing, to many complex shapes.

Got the other set of legs today so been round my dad's getting them altered.  This eurokit gear is cheap stuff, but just think of it as partially prepared. I had the same problem with the retracts not been tapped right through, and the legs needed stripping down bur's and swarf removed and greesing before they worked smoothly, still a fraction of the price of the competion though!

Walts.
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on April 29, 2004, 21:02:08 pm
QuoteI had the same problem with the retracts not been tapped right through,
...thank heavens someone had this problem too, as I thought I was some engineering Luddite Walts.  I also tapped a larger M3 grub screw in the front face of that square aluminium casting, as my lower grub screws didn't seem to be able to grip the piano wire of the undercarriage (after filing the piano wire faces flat for a better grip).  One re-tapped and the additional grub screws I've 100% confidence they'll never part company!

Covering goes on at a snails pace, but should be finished in a month or so!  

I put this web site address on the E-zone for a couple of guys who are building the Priory lanc....hasn't a patch on the Nexus one, but hey, I'm biased!  ;D  The guy is called Paul and he's at www.precisionmarkings.co.uk
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on May 01, 2004, 14:12:05 pm
Between getting over this rotten cold I finished the decal templates and got a colour photocopy done today of the 'Spirit of Russia'.  I posted 3 pics on the Priory Lanc thread on the USA E-Zone, but here is a pic of my templates (and no Arel, it's not a Japanese lanc!)  :D



[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on May 01, 2004, 14:12:47 pm
Here's No2

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on May 01, 2004, 14:15:18 pm
Last but not least, here is the lady in question.  When Paul at Precision markings gets the sizes it would be a simple matter for, say Walts, Dek etc to call him up and send a colour photocopy of the model decals they would like?  At £12 I think it's good value to get top-of-the-range decals...n'est pas?

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Walts on May 01, 2004, 20:27:52 pm
Hi Gordon, That Lanc is looking good man!  8)

I normally paint on my markings, But i've got to admit i am tempted by these decol's, cause most decent lanc schemes have the gold edging round the letters which will be hard to paint.  so tell this guy to hang on to those sizes for me.  ;)
What exactly are you getting for your money, i mean how many transfers?

Cheers Walts.
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on May 01, 2004, 20:39:39 pm
QuoteWhat exactly are you getting for your money, i mean how many transfers?
.....Hi Walts...having completed a letter tonight I am expecting the following for my dosh:

2 large upper wing roundels and 2 smaller fuselage roundels.
Two sets of fuselage 'CAR' code letters and 2 airframe identification code decals.
Two vertical stabiliser 'R' decals and 4 red/white/blue rectangular decals.
2 nose 'R' decals, 2 'bombing mission' decals and 2 'Spirit of Russia' decals.
A red trestle decal.

As u said the yellow around the roundels would be a pain to do, but u could put on later 'all red' code letters as was used by, say, 617 Squadron?
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Walts on May 01, 2004, 22:52:11 pm
Thats a lot of decal's for the money gordon 8)
I've been on this guys site and noticed he does paint masks as well.  I dont suppose you inquired about their cost did you? as i think i would still prefer to paint my markings, and a set of pre made masks would make life a lot easier.

Cheers
Walts.
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on May 02, 2004, 00:35:58 am
QuoteI've been on this guys site and noticed he does paint masks as well.  I dont suppose you inquired about their cost did you?
...nope!  :D  If u get a price I'd like to know too, as if they are templates, I'm sure building up a large set would be cheaper in the long run than doing my way with decals?
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on May 02, 2004, 22:33:16 pm
Began to look at how to secure the canopy to the fuselage, while allowing removal to access the battery bay.  A thin strip of velcro along the lower edges of the canopy looks promising.  Give it a week or so and I'll post a pic.
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Arel on May 03, 2004, 13:48:11 pm
I haven't got much to say...I just wanted to try out these smilies ::) :D

Gordon,

You must be happy with your Lanc :), It's all coming together nicely ;) ;D. Thanks for the link for the markings 8).

Is it just me or does this one  :o look like it's been doing something the "party" crowd do? ;D ;D

Rich
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on May 03, 2004, 19:40:38 pm
QuoteYou must be happy with your Lanc
....happy that I've got this far, but she needs to go on the Atkins diet  ;)  I'll be dremelling some of those formers for starters and do those while your fuselage is unskinned Arel.  Did a ground run with her today...she was fine at max chat for 8 minutes, all readings virtually unchanged.  
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: CraigO on May 05, 2004, 05:20:00 am
Hi all

Walts: can i ask you what the part numbers were for your oleos were.  they look really good.  what size model are they meant for?

I am still watching this thread with great interest  :D

come on guys get em in the air!

not sure if i post this question on this thread or the US one but how many amps were the motors drawing in your 8 minute run gordon?  my estimate is about 25amps on the ground

So i am assuming that at 14volts and 25 amps that is 350W, for a 6lb model, that is 60 W/lb.  even at 7lb it is still 50 w/lb. not too bad it should get into the air :)  were they 8x6 or 9x6 props?  there is something about multies that helps with their flyability even with low power ratios.  

i am looking at the high side of 110W/lb for the new mossie!!!   ;D ;D

quitely from the background

Craig


Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on May 05, 2004, 12:47:09 pm
QuoteSo i am assuming that at 14volts and 25 amps that is 350W, for a 6lb model, that is 60 W/lb.  even at 7lb it is still 50 w/lb. not too bad it should get into the air   were they 8x6 or 9x6 props?  there is something about multies that helps with their flyability even with low power ratios.  
.........................Craig, my problem is still the battery pack, as it's only giving me 240Watts at 14.4V, so the current is around 17 Amps.  My Wattmeter confirmed this.  That's giving me 37Watts/lb...too low in my view.  Prop size I THINK are 8x6, but will update this thread tonight to confirm the size.

Your mossie will be incredibly 'overpowered' so lots and lots of flying time....nice one!  
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Walts on May 05, 2004, 18:20:43 pm
Hi Chaps,

CraigO the part number is CAR\15090\000 and they are designed for aircraft with single legs i.e most fighter types.  They are sold in pairs, i had great difficulty getting hold of them in the UK, but at £13.99 a pair they are fantastic value!, as i explained earlier my dad engineered the 2 pairs into 2 basic box frames, that i dressed up.

I've re-posted a picture as the first ones were taken at a funny angle that made them look much shorter and fatter then they actually are.  I've replaced the V strut with a thinner tube and raised it to allow the suspension to work properly.  During the alterations the paint got worn away and the greese i used on the inner legs got all over the thing, But this actually gave them a real scale look  8)
Once the retract unit is fitted to the wing i will be able to square the wheel up and recess the square boss into the top bar of the landing gear to stop it from twisting, as i am not comfortable with the grub screws doing the job.

Walts.



(http://rcmf.co.uk/old-uploads/retry1.jpg)

(http://rcmf.co.uk/old-uploads/retrye.JPG)

Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Walts on May 05, 2004, 18:25:36 pm
Gordon, I'll let you know about the paint mask once i get round to enquiring as im still trying to get a decent base finish on this thing  :-\

Walts.
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Walts on May 05, 2004, 19:10:08 pm
Hey has anyone noticed these new natural envioroment smilies!
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: CraigO on May 06, 2004, 01:18:53 am
Hi all

Walts,  thanks for th info I have the full list of their components but i couldnt work out which one to grab :)  Your landing gear looks great.  I assume the top bar is brass?  and you have braised or something a wire of appropriate size into it that is compatable with the retract?  is that right?

thanks again

Craig
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Walts on May 06, 2004, 12:05:08 pm
Hi CraigO, No, the top bar is solid alluminium which has had 3 holes drilled through it to allow piano wire pins to pass through into each leg and 1 into the retract unit.  These held tight by 4mm grub screws.  These were the 110mm legs which needed 10mm cut off the top to be right, which meant i lost one of the grub screws on each leg, but because its a box frame it still remains ridged.  The V strut is alluminium tube which locates on the centre pin at the top and is bolted to the legs with brackets i made from litho plate.

Ave you noticed they do another oleo leg that is much more sculptured and would have looked a lot better on the lanc.  Couldnt get the things anywhere in england  :-\

Cheers
Walts.
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on May 06, 2004, 12:54:04 pm
Walts....undercarriage is amazin'...I'm just a modelling Luddite when I see this  :'(

On the battery front I've found a German site that does dirt cheap batteries.  For example a 3300Mah 14.4v pack is for sale at 42Euos (at 06/0.7Euros to the £ u do the maths?).  Ok then, it's £25-£29 plus p+p...gobsmacking!

The site is at www.hopf-shop.de/product_info.php?products_id=443
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Walts on May 06, 2004, 19:27:50 pm
gordon
that site looks interesting, just wish i could read german :D
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Walts on May 06, 2004, 20:38:40 pm
Quote from: Walts on May 05, 2004, 19:10:08 pm
Hey has anyone noticed these new natural envioroment smilies!


perhaps this was a little bit subtle, or you just couldnt be bothered to humour me  :D :D :D :D  but when i posted my recent pics i noticed a cool smilie on the fence, its kinda creepy now i've noticed it whenever i walk into the garden it smiles at me  :-\ (or is that laughs)  :o :D :D
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on May 06, 2004, 23:39:51 pm
Quotethat site looks interesting, just wish i could read german
...the Ripmax Spitfire boys found a translation site to get round that problem Walts...have a look in their thread for a link.  

Nearly finished the tail assembly covering, just little bits of vertical stabiliser to do and the fuselage connecting the assembly...light at the end of the tunnel  :)

Quoteits kinda creepy now i've noticed it whenever i walk into the garden it smiles at me  
....is there anybody out there?  U are never alone with paranoa  :-\
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: CraigO on May 07, 2004, 01:42:36 am
Hi all

Gordon:  going up to the 3300MAH cells isnt going to help with the delivery of power, it will just allow you to do the same output for longer.  I am a bit confused,  where are you measuring the current flow?   Are getting 7-8 minutes out of 2400's or 3000's?,  a 2400cell will deliver 24amps for a tenth of an hour  ie, 6 minutes.  likewise a 3000 cell will deliver 30 amps for 6 minutes.  ( all things being equal  which they arent :)).  at seven or 8 minutes you would be drawing aout 25amps from 3000's or about 20+ amps from 2400's,  if you are only drawing 18amps then i would recommend going down to CP 1700 Cells and a 14 cell pack.  the amps will climb a bit but the voltage increase will lift the total power output.  Volts times amps equals power.

any way just some thoughts.  

Walts,  try using the Altavista translator  http://babelfish.altavista.com/tr

works a treat!

Cheers all

Craig
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on May 07, 2004, 10:42:35 am
QuoteI am a bit confused,  where are you measuring the current flow?
...fitted the Wattmeter between the pack and ESC.  Didn't get any more than 230/240 Watts at max chat with around 17 Amps  The pack is 2 sets of 7.2volt x 2400Mah wired in series.  So with power = VA that should be 14.4x17=245.8Watts, which with internal losses makes the Wattmeter fairly accurate?  As u said Craig, these battery packs aren't delivering the current.  I think I'll fully discharge them through my charger, then recharge them?

As for the 3300s, I was purely thinking about increasing duration while loosing a couple of hundred grammes in weight too.
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Arel on May 08, 2004, 07:30:12 am
Gordon,

Does your charger have a "cycle" feature?...Can you set it to chare/discharge/charge etc?. If so it might be worth trying. Also I've seen people recommending a slow charge (maybe 100/200ma for 15-20 hours) the first time you charge.

Whatever happens, you are borderline on your power system, with nothing in reserve. 40w/lb might fly the Lanc, but you could be close to the stall all the time which isn't much fun :(

What's your set up again...motor/gbox ratio/props/batteries?


Walts,

Lovely UC mate, really looks the business :D

Rich
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on May 08, 2004, 18:18:29 pm
Arel....very true what u say re the stall and a hairey flight it would be (just have some wind to think about and it's bin bag time!).  I'm discharging the pack as I type this and I'll try a slow recharge as u mentioned. My gismo is a Supernova, so shouldn't have much trouble doing this.  My set up is a twin 7.2volt 2400Mah (12 cell) wired in series.  The lanc has 8x6 props driven by 6volt Permax(Multiplex) motors driving thru 2.3:1 gearboxes.  I ordered Motorcalc this morning, so should avoid this hassle in the future!  :D

Nearly finished covering the tail assembly, should finish Monday / Tuesday...cronically slow at the moment, but lots on the go re family bits 'n bobs unfortunately  :'(
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Walts on May 08, 2004, 20:54:58 pm
Hi Chaps,

Well i've finally got my Lanc ready for spraying, which i hope to do sometime next week, depends on the weather!  :-\ as i use a gazebo with sides as a spray booth in the garden, keeps the smell away from shmbo.  After spraying i'll do the final assembely and then start testing everything. Oh and i suppose i'll have to weigh it aswell  :o :D

(http://rcmf.co.uk/old-uploads/last014.jpg)

(http://rcmf.co.uk/old-uploads/last019.jpg)

Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: CraigO on May 10, 2004, 04:22:34 am
Hi all

Walts.  that looks great.  jumping boots at the ready for mine :(

Gordon : i did the Electricalc numbers and 14 cells Gp3300's 4 6v motors geared 2.33 with 8-6 props acording to the calculator with Master Airscrew props will draw about 17 amps.   so really close to the numbers you are seeing.  depending on the internal resistance of the 2400s the might pull a touch more so that would be the difference.  
i have assumed that in its current configuration the all up flying weight is 93 oz.

first lets go up to 9/6 props.  ah that is more like 21 amps around 54 W/lb  but the pitch speed is onl 32 mph with a stall speed of 18mph. too low.

9-7 props 22 amps at 57w/lb  pitch speed is 36 stall is 18

9-8 props 23.2 amps at 59W/lb  pitch speed of 39 stall of 18,  ... getting there, certainly flyable it just isnt going to accelerate in the air very quickly but manageable.

now some more drastic measures. :(
I you rewire them to all in parallel it goes up to a mamouth 60 amps if you stay with 14 cells.  

but you could then drop to 7 cells and pull about 29 amps.  that i think is what i would be doing.   rewire the current series parallel arrangement to all motors in parallel and use half of your pack (7 cells) :)  that will give you more power, enough for good flight characteristics.  you arent overloading the motors.    the plane weight will go down by 14 oz!  :) and the stall speed is down to 16mph and with 8-6 props the pitch speed is 33mph  unfortunately back down around the 45W/lb level.  
9-6 props off that would give 48w/lb  

or 8 cells instead of 7.  8-6 props all in parallel then 34.4 amps 36 pitch speed 16 stall speed. 53 w/lb :) ;D  10 minutes of cruizing or 5 minutes flat out!
or 9-6 props too big that is 40 amps,  10 amps through each motor.  32 pitch speed, 16 stall, 60W/lb   :-\

the other alternative is to change them over to 4.8 volt motors and leave the wiring the same.  then off 10 cells you will also pull about 30 amps.

another alternative is to stay with the motors and wiring set up you  have and go to 16 or 17 cells   16 cells draws about 20 amps or about 380W.:)  but of course the weight goes up by another 4 oz. :(  up to around 97 oz  that still gives you 58W/lb and a pretty reasonable pitch speed.  40Mph, with a stall speed of 18Mph.  I would rather see it a bit higher.
17 cells lifts it to 64 w/lb  at 21.8 amps.

i think the simplest two are going up to 16 or 17 cells and keeping everything else the same.  or rewiring the motors into all in parallel and going off 8 cells with everything else the same.  

cheers

Craig
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Arel on May 10, 2004, 07:07:43 am
Gordon,

I'll second what Craig says...


Those Lipos are looking better all the time ;D

Rich
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on May 10, 2004, 12:48:26 pm
True what u say Arel.

QuoteWalts.  that looks great.  jumping boots at the ready for mine
....too true Craig, loverly model innit?

Craig...much impressed with the input u have done to confirm that my lanc IS performing correctly, if only not drawing enough wiggly amps!  I'm going to re-read what u said and my first impressions are:

Change the props to a coarser pitch..easy job, little dosh involved, say £10 plus p+p.
Rewire to parallel...haven't looked at the practical problems yet!
Discharge and recharge the packs....will finish that this week.
Get different packs.....lotsa dosh and lighter lanc.
Change to smaller motors.....about £50+ to impliment.
Lanc on the Atkins diet.....doing that now, but the Watts/lb don't vary much when u do the sums!

Lots to think about...mmmmm  :-[
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Walts on May 10, 2004, 21:50:52 pm
Gordon, sorry i have nothing to add re your power problems, but i only know what i've read from this thread about electrics.  But it seems the lad's have given you plenty of food for thought  8)

On a different note, i've sent an email to this guy at precision markings enquiring about paint masks.  I've actually quoted your enquiry as reference for sizes.  I am awaiting a reply if he can understand the email, but to save me a bit of home work could you give me the sizes of the roundels, fuzz lettering, fin letters and serial No.s in case he asks please.

Cheers Walts.
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: CraigO on May 11, 2004, 00:17:28 am
Hi all

Gordon: sorry about the extended diatribe.  :0 It sounds all a bit too authoritative doesn`t it. A lot of this stuff can be calculated but it is really the practical implementation of it all that is the proof of concept.  :)

I hope you can find some things in there that will help you to get that beautiful lanc into the air.  I would look seriously at the parallel conversion the props will do part of the story but with a low pitch speed to stall speed ratio the model will always feel sluggish in the air and be more of a challenge to fly :(
Anyway hope there is something in there you can use.

I had to think about all of that stuff anyway, cos I am not making any real progress on the lanc at the moment. still finishing the control installation.  4 push rods into the back of the model ! what a spagetti mess. :)

Rich:  thanks for the pics they are just what the doctor ordered and they are all very readable I have ordered the modellers datafile for the mossie too.  Thanks for the tip Gordo.

Cheers all

Craig
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: BalsaDust on May 11, 2004, 08:36:15 am
Hi guys .......  its me back again !

Been reading through the posts and pics - there's a couple of stunning models out there Gordon/Walts !  :D

I'm sure you'll find the right setup to get your model into the air Gordon - some excellent advice has been offered.

Re the comments on pitch speed etc - thats exactly what I found, Changing from 8x6's @ 6000RPM to 9x4.5's at 6700RPM resulted in a model that although flew OK, certainly felt sluggish in the air and flew with a bit of a nose up attidude .... Gone back to 8x6's now. Much better :)

I reckon if your able to get 8*6's swinging at 6000 RPM or more whichever setup you choose, then you'll have absolutely no problems.

Hoping to get some video shots this weekend - weather looks promising so watch this space !

regards
BalsaDust
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on May 11, 2004, 12:47:00 pm
BD...hail guru...how's Jersey; the castle; the servants not too much trouble?

Craig's advice was superb and your idea re the 6k speed would be another avenue, so if she's at that speed she's a flier?
Quote4 push rods into the back of the model ! what a spagetti mess.
...fit a couple of servos in the tail Craig, neat solution I found.  I've started to look at the parallel conversion to see if it's practical with the wing skinning now in place....mmmm!

Litespan of the tail is nearly complete, then a pic hopefully this week.  ::)

BD...video...mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm  8)

Walts..I'll look out the sheet re the decals, as I sent the templates to him
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: CraigO on May 12, 2004, 01:39:11 am
Morning all

Gordon: 4 pushrods,  a nightmare to set up but i have a weight problem.  :(   I am one of these people who hates to add balast weight, so i am having to build the tail as light as i can to avoid adding nose weight.    The lipos are great power sources but with a short nose, like on the mossie i have to keep the tail light.

The nose to tail weight ratio is horrible,   every gram at the tail is 4 grams at the nose.  so a 19gm servo at the tail needs 56gms in the nose to balance it.  

here is where i am at with weight in the tail.  
10gms for the tail wheel retract + 7gms for a wheel,  
30gms for the fin and rudder and
50gms for the elevator and horizontal stabiliser,  that is about 100gms, without considering the weight of the structure of the fuselage.  
say 130-150gms.   that is 600gms at the front,  that is just about the weight of the battery packs.  So i am absolutely desparate for Gms.  or for no Gms.  I wish i could have put the servos down there :)  

I cant wait to see you guys get these lancs in the air.  both of them look absolutely superb, beautifully detailed and really  8).

Cheers all, keep building

Craig

Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on May 12, 2004, 09:11:21 am
Walts.....having looked at my inane scribblings for the decals, I'll wait until the finished articles arrive (shouldn't be long now I hope).  Then I'll measure off the sizes for u.

Mossie's...who'd build them eh?   :D :D :D :D

Finished the covering of the tail assembly yesterday, just need to paint a few bits.  Once that's done I'll put a pic on.

I'm in the middle of modifying a transformer to give me a constant 12v input for my Supernova when charging / discharging my battery packs.  I find when discharging them that the lead acid battery I have to too small a capacity for the Supernova and it runs down before the pack is discharged.
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Walts on May 12, 2004, 09:29:51 am
cheers gordon, ive not received an answer from precision markings yet so i ll wait on both of you. in the mean time i ll go and dig out my gazibo and start spraying this thing  :)

cheers walts                                                  
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on May 12, 2004, 16:38:45 pm
As my 21st (ahem) birthday will soon be upon me, I'm looking at the Ripmax Spitfire as a prezzie.  I like the idea of a nice hand launched model to keep me occupied when I can't get to the club to get the lanc airborne.  As the Spit can use an 8 cell  3300MAh pack that might be a way to improve the duration of the lanc...yup I know, I'll have to look at some of the ideas Craig mentioned to get more current flow!   ;)
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on May 13, 2004, 15:55:57 pm
Hey Craig, got my Motorcalc V7 yesterday.  Now I can confirm the lanc won't fly  ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;)

Started the lanc's fuselage on the Atkins Diet today!  She was sanded down and I'll be using the dremel on some of those HUGELY thick formers.  Arel..take note before u build!  :D



Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on May 13, 2004, 22:06:16 pm
Well guys did loads of sanding down on the fuselage and top wing sheeting....my work rate would have impressed even Walts?  :D :D  Finished the surface with 400 grade and it's now ready for Balsaloc covering tomorrow.  The frames are now slimmed down and it's 60 grammes lighter, not much but a small improvement.  What is a good improvement is that I can feed the servo cables down the fuselage to the tail very easily now.  ;)
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: CraigO on May 14, 2004, 03:00:32 am
Good on you gordon  Keep at it.

I think you will have to do somthing with your power train.  My thinking would be parrallel the motors and go for 8 cells but its up to you. :)  you said you were looking at the wiring.  

I did have another thought, going for 3 blade props would help to increase the current draw but again you are reducing the pitch speed.

Motocalc is groovy aint it!  It tells lots of things, but actual results may vary a bit.

Cheers

Craig
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: BalsaDust on May 14, 2004, 08:55:47 am
Hi guys,
Now that the Lancs here are almmost finished - guess what I discovered the other day ??

A documentary about the Memorial Flight, with loads of good stuff showing the complete rebuild of their Lancaster !

Made by the company I work for ...
Its been sitting on a shelf in our film library and I never knew about it !   Grrrr ...

Will be available on DVD in September though .... Watch this space

BalsaDust
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on May 14, 2004, 12:58:36 pm
QuoteMy thinking would be parrallel the motors and go for 8 cells but its up to you
.....Craig, with mind reading powers like that can u tell me what the 6 numbers will be for this weekends lottery!   :D :D  As I'm megga interested in the Ripmax Spitfire with an 8 cell 3300MAh pack I could use it for both models (the Spit is a hand launch, so could fly it in the field next to me).

QuoteA documentary about the Memorial Flight, with loads of good stuff showing the complete rebuild of their Lancaster !
...ooops BD.  :'(

Must go and Balsaloc the fuselage.... ::)
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Arel on May 15, 2004, 01:12:32 am
Happy birthday Gordon...This must be at least the twenty fifth time you've turned 21? ;D ;D

Do you remember all the conversations we've had about series v parallel? If you do go that route, check then recheck all solder connections and you should be right. The trade off in lack of a "failsafe" series circuit will be a much lighter, better flying Lanc ;).

Maybe you should start thinking about fitting a working Bomb bay ;D

Cheers

Rich
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on May 15, 2004, 08:14:26 am
Hi Arel...thanks for the birthday wishes!  

As I always seem to be knackered on Friday nights I thought I'd do some research into changing from twin series to parallel.  First impressions on paper anyway, are that it may be little more than re-routing a couple of wires.  The circuit would in effect be twin parallel.  I'll post a pic on my idea soon.
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: CraigO on May 16, 2004, 04:03:22 am
Happy Brithday Godron :)

i know how impolite it is to mace unnecessary asertions about anyones age :)  particularly as i am on the wrong side of 40 :)

I have been looking at the wiring diagram again and it should be possible if not exactly elegant.  all the best fellas

Craig
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: BalsaDust on May 16, 2004, 10:19:55 am
Hi guys,
well its the moment you've all been waiting for  ;)

VIDEO CLIPS !             8)



Yesterday was a pretty much perfect day, with a Force 3 to 4 breeze from the N/NE at Les Landes in Jersey ....

Archie was behind the camera while yours truly put on his brown trousers & bicyle-clips for my first flight since January .....

Here are links to some short WMV files, which should get your juices going ......

http://www.foxesonline.info/lancaster/clips/LancasterTakeoff.wmv
1.5 M

http://www.foxesonline.info/lancaster/clips/LancasterFlyBy.wmv
760K

http://www.foxesonline.info/lancaster/clips/LancasterLanding.wmv
1.4M

BalsaDust
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Walts on May 16, 2004, 20:48:56 pm
Hi Chaps,

Gordon it seems i've missed your birthday, so HAPPY BELATED BIRTHDAY mate  :)

BD those vid's look superb if not a little hairy, looks twitchy on take off, enough to make me dash out and buy some extra strong bicycle clips!!  :D  I couldnt get the 3rd clip to work.

Anyway just when i thought the end was in sight its all gone pear shaped again.
I've had a horrible reaction with the paint i started spraying with.  So its all going to need rubbing down AGAIN and sealing properly.  So if im not around for a while you know what i am upto!

Cheers all
Walts.
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Arel on May 17, 2004, 07:51:33 am
Bd,

Great videos mate. One question...I fly at a club with a landing area about the size of a football field...and I still miss it occasionally.

How do you make your landings on that little runway look so easy? ;) ;D


Walts,

Go easy on those fumes mate, it can be addictive..."I'll give up after just one more coat" ;D

Rich
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on May 17, 2004, 12:11:02 pm
Guys..thanks for the birthday wishes, mucho appreciated.

BD.....just cleaned up the mess after watching that take off...gawd it was windy and gusting too...haireeeee! (didn't have my bicycle clips handy...Andy!).  She looks a beaut too.  Couldn't get the landing URL to work last night but the other two were VERY impressive (love the noise the 4 motors make).  Now all I need is a digital camcorder!


QuoteAnyway just when i thought the end was in sight its all gone pear shaped again.
I've had a horrible reaction with the paint i started spraying with.  So its all going to need rubbing down AGAIN and sealing properly.  So if im not around for a while you know what i am upto!
....................use Litespan Walts...it's slow to put on but 6 times the strength of tissue and dope (so the bumf on the packet tells me  ;) ;) ;) ;).   Still awaiting the decals by the way.   >:(
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Tree_Magnet on May 17, 2004, 12:46:02 pm
BD outstanding it looks like i won't have a lanc til next year now things are just to busy  :'(  ho well i like to read and drool over everyones lancs so keep m comming   :D\

Tom
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: BalsaDust on May 17, 2004, 13:24:33 pm
Hi guys,
sorry got the link wrong for the last clip ..... :-[

fixed it yesterday, so all OK now !  :)

The model is a bit sensitive - perhaps because the throws on the ailerons are a bit high. Need to dial in some exponential .....

The wind wasn't too bad  - but enough to blow the model backwards while sitting at the end of the tarmac. There was also a bit of turbulence at low level ........ but the bicycle clips helped there !

The motors also sounded very different on the video compared to what I hear. You don't hear so much of the prop noise on the clip - which does make the engines sound much more "merlin" like.

Glad you liked it .... there's plenty more where taht came from !

regards
Balsadust
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Walts on May 17, 2004, 20:55:58 pm
Gordon, i know where your comming from mate, but i think i'll stick with me old fashioned way's now i am nearly there.  Started rubbing down today in the garden, managed to do the fins, rudders, elevators and tail plane.  A very slow and tedious job.  Had my shirt off and got extremely sun burnt, excellent weather here at the moment.

Glad to hear i wasnt the only one that got a little scared watching B.D's excellent videos.

Arel, sorry mate, its too late, i think she will be getting regular resprays just to feed my addiction  :D :D

Walts.
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: CraigO on May 18, 2004, 01:25:02 am
Love the videos !

2 things,  man that thing is fast.  Significantly faster than mine ?  

on the fly pasts it really rockets along.

the lakeoff is also fast, admitedly we take off from grass but it really boogies quickly.  I might have to check my props i think?

cheers

Craig
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on May 18, 2004, 12:51:26 pm
Quoteon the fly pasts it really rockets along.
...Craig, that's what surprised me too.  I think BD has it set to 11 on the 10 scale!  I'd never fly in those winds 'cos I'm a coward ok?  When I fly mine I'll throw a feather into the air and if it doesn't float down vertically I'm not flying!  Get the drift?  So in Scotland that could be a while!

Looked at the Priory lanc thread on the E-Zone..some nice work there on the foamie front.

I assembled mine last night and the wing bolts are definately easier to fit these days.  I'll take a pic as the tail section looks so different from the non-litespan balsa area (and I didn't get to work in the sun either  :'(  ).
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: BalsaDust on May 18, 2004, 14:18:39 pm
Hi guys,
It certainly looks fast in the clips - surprised me a bit. ....

Archie said he felt it was flying faster than he's seen it go before. He asked if I'd changed any of the setups ...

I haven't apart from replacing the grease on the gearboxes.  I will have to recheck the RPM to see if that's upped the power.

I'll have to fly it some more to get happy with the handling. I'm paranoid about slowing it up too much and it stalling in !

regards
BalsaDust
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on May 18, 2004, 15:52:18 pm
BD..take it up megga high and slowly reduce the juice?
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: CraigO on May 19, 2004, 06:11:01 am
Hi all

BD well it looks about twice as fast as mine !   perhaps that was a down wind view.  but then again it cant have been because it was in the same direction as the take off.   perhaps we should label it Thunderbird 6.  FAB Virgil :)

Gordon:  I have flown mine in winds like that.  and they really handle it well.  really the wing loading isnt too  bad at all.  my first mossie was over 30oz/sqft.   fast but not uncontrollable.  actually still probably not as fast as BD's Lanc. :)

I have made some more progress on the Mossie.  the fuz is joined and i am back to working on the wings.  I built the other set of flaps over the weekend, now it will take me another few days to get them set up right!  then i can finish sheeting the wing.  well after i do the bomb drop mechanisms. the bomb drop servo is already in :)

then its onto the nacelles.  I got a price on the eurokit struts and they are only $45au so 2 pairs of them will be coming here soon too.


cheers all

Craig
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on May 19, 2004, 13:08:53 pm
Quotewell after i do the bomb drop mechanisms. the bomb drop servo is already in
...Hi Craig, why not fit out your Mossie as the test plane for the Upkeep (bouncing) bomb....lanc theme?   ;)
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on May 20, 2004, 01:13:06 am
Here's a shot of my litespan removable tail assembly...finished at LONG last!  ;)  Fungus on the photo is the small file size that can be used on this site!  (I put this pic plus another on the E-Zone and they're far better quality on the Priory lanc thread).

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: CraigO on May 20, 2004, 01:59:54 am
Hi all

Looking great Gordon!

i have thought about the upkeep option for the mossie  but they didnt use the two stage supercharged merlins so i dont get the nice little chin scoop to put cool air over the electric motors. :(

Keep going fellas you are almost there!

Craig
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on May 21, 2004, 18:48:47 pm
Hi Guys....well Craig I decided to rewire the Highland lanc to parallel this afternoon.  After all the head scratching (and the wiring now largely inaccessible in the wing!) all it needs is two 'Y' connectors for the +ve & -ve ESC wires.  It won't be pretty, but it will be workable!  Might change the props too, but will run it to see how it performs first.

Walts...still no sign of those decals yet.  Taking their time n'est pas?  :-\

Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on May 23, 2004, 01:10:54 am
Parallel wiring now finished...I've created a monster!  Knew I'd never get to use the 14.4v pack in a parallel circuit, but slowly took up the throttle and watched the amps carefully on the Wattmeter.  At half throttle she was drawing 31A and 480 Watts...oerrrr missus!

Decided to get to know Motorcalc tonight and found that my series/parallel setup would never had got me off the ground.  Reason?  I made a mistake ages ago re BDs excellent wiring diagram.  I'm using 6v motors and BD is using 4.8v!  My first impressions tell me that my 7x6.5 props are not going to work, but by tomorrow night I should be sure what size will get some space between the tyres and the ground.
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on May 23, 2004, 14:40:07 pm
Finished the cockpit velcro fit this morning and it looks rubbish!   :'(  Decided a major rethink is needed, so I'm now going to glue the cockpit to the fuselage and cut out the area that connects to the fuselage..then attach the assembly to the fuselage with 2 steel pins (one already in place as used for the battery compartment....gawd I love this model  ;)
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on May 23, 2004, 19:14:01 pm
Well guys, this power setup is working as advertised, as the current is flowing nicely with a steady 6.1 volts to each motor (6 volt motors being used).  If I take a 40 Watt / lb as the 'accepted norm' for this model to be a safe flier, then I'll need 6.5lbs x 40 watts = 260 watts for take-off and any gusty conditions (aka BD weather!).  As the volts stay steady in a parallel circuit, I can do a quick calculation and I'll need approximately 44 amps?  My batteries only give 27 amps with 7x6.5 props, so I can find out via Motorcalc what could give that current?  I don't think they will.  My packs are 7.2v @ 2400MAh and to get some reasonable time in the air, I think I'll have to upgrade to a bigger pack (say 3300MAh).  My non-Motorcalc sums tell me that a 3300MAh pack could give me 4 minutes 18 seconds at max throttle (using the 6.1v not the 7.2volt supply as noted on my Wattmeter!).  So now what I need to do is to ask Motorcalc if I use the bigger pack what prop size will allow me to pull 46 amps at max chat?  Anyone still awake out there?   ;) ;) ;)      
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Walts on May 23, 2004, 20:15:05 pm
Hi chaps,

Still cutting back just in case you were wondering, got all the fuzz done and the top of the wing, just the bottom to go then i can try a respray.

Gordon, i am glad i decided to stick to the original wiring in the end after reading all your problems.  I havnt tested anything yet so i cant say what my set up will produce, but i am using the same motor/gearbox set up as you and i have brought an 8 cell pack as recommended on the plan, except my pack is 3000 mah so my 7.2v motors will be seeing 9.6v each.  Perhaps you should try one of these packs to give your motors more power.

Cheers Walts.
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on May 23, 2004, 22:51:02 pm
Hi Walts....u are going like the usual steam train...pics when sprayed?  
Quote7.2v motors will be seeing 9.6v each
.....My 6v motors 'see' 7.2V, but with losses they actually get 6.1v.  My mistake was not noticing that BDs circuit was for 4.8v motors...my cockup not his.  ;)

QuotePerhaps you should try one of these packs to give your motors more power.
...looking more and more likely Walts.  Noticed Inwoods have a 7.2v @ 3300MAh pack for £29.99 + p&P.  Not too pricey and the two smaller 2400MAh packs will be ideal for my Ripmax Spitfire (15 minute recharge time with my charger).
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Walts on May 23, 2004, 23:06:12 pm
sorry gordon my mistake, my motors are 6v as well, but iam still using an 8 cell pack which means these motors are being driven at there top end when given full throttle, but im sure this is what will give them the welly to get the model off the ground and then i can throttle back for cruising, i hope :-\ as this is the set up TN used, hopefully it cant be far wrong.

Walts.
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on May 23, 2004, 23:11:14 pm
Walts..must be a great endorsement if someone's used it before.  Not sure of the long term benefit of 6v motors running 50+% over voltage, but if he got away with it then that's a positive endorsement and as u said it's only for take off (emergency boost!).  ;)
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Arel on May 24, 2004, 06:38:52 am
Gordon,

Repeat after me...4.8v,6v,7.2v etc are NOMINAL voltages that aren't anywhere near the maximum voltages that these motors can handle

So stop bloody messing around and get an 8 cell pack.... ;D

As you found with the 6 cell pack, the current draw will hold down the voltage from 9.6v...to probably about 8.5v.

Don't forget that high AMPS will wear out your motor. These sp400s can handle more voltage than their nomnal rating as long as you keep the amps down to about 7-8a each.

You need to setup the Lanc with 8 cells then prop your plane till you see about 30a draw and about 8.5v. This should give you about 250w.

Wasn't your Lanc 6.5lb with 14 cells? Shouldn't it be a lot lighter now?

Rich

Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Walts on May 24, 2004, 11:01:55 am
Tell Me Why I Don't Like Mondays!!



(http://rcmf.co.uk/old-uploads/monday001.jpg)

Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: BalsaDust on May 24, 2004, 11:55:55 am
because you've got that fence to sand down before you can even think about doing any wortk on the Lanc !

BalsaDust
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Walts on May 24, 2004, 16:06:40 pm
BD, with the amount of cutting back i've got to do on the Lanc that bl***y fence can rot for all i care  :D :D
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Walts on May 24, 2004, 19:49:55 pm
well 9 hours stright today wet and drying back and ive finally got her ready for a re-SPRAY just got to find some decent paint. perhaps it wasn't such a bad monday after all  ;D ;D
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on May 25, 2004, 00:57:45 am
Quotewell 9 hours straight today
...Walts I AM impressed...9 soddin' hours and that's about 1.5 weeks of my free time...I must be doing something wrong here!  :o  Did I mention Litspan?  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on May 25, 2004, 22:14:11 pm
Managed an hour today and put the cockpit to the scalpel.  Result is now a sliced-off area of cockpit that will be glued to the canopy and held by 2 pins.  Still dithering re the battery pack, but if the general gist of what you are saying is taken on board then a 9.6v@3300MAh pack at £29.99 at Overlander looks good...has anyone tried those Chinese packs yet?   :o
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Walts on May 25, 2004, 22:45:26 pm
gordon,
i remember reading a review on them a while back in one of my magazines.  The reviewer hadnt tested all the available cells but the ones he had tested he was very impressed with and said there performance enhanced noticably after several cycles.  

Not an ounce of progress on the lanc today, due to being forced into working on the front garden :-\  Back on days tomorrow, so no progress likely till friday!

Walts.
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on May 26, 2004, 12:43:24 pm
Quoteinto working on the front garden
...empahise there Walts, as this summer sunshine makes those weeds and grass grow just too fast.   8)

I've been gauging the opinion of my techie teacher friends regarding 9.6 volts being used on 6 volt motors (I'm talking parallel circuits here guys).  The concensus is it's crazy if u want to use the motors for any length of time.  Unless the motor is really well ventilated it could cause problems.  The use of an 8.4 volt pack MIGHT be ok, as the voltage does drop (as my 7.2v pack supplies 6.1 volts).  So I'll look at the sums and the cash and see if I can use an 8.4v pack.  :-X  

Walts...thanks for the info on the Chinese packs and as of lunchtime those decals still haven't turned up!  
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: BalsaDust on May 26, 2004, 14:25:33 pm
Hi guys,
I've been running a 6v motor on an 8 cell (9.6v) pack for over a year now .... no problems whatsoever.
This practice is common place amongst us modellers, the view being that the motors only cost around £6, so not a problem if it dies .....

That said, if a motor went out in the Lanc theres a lot more than £6 at risk !

Graupner quote their 7.2v 400 as able to run on up to 10 cells ! Thats 12v - well over the 7.2v nominal voltage.

The key here is to make sure the motor is well cooled by the airflow, which again in the Lanc should be no problem.

Go for 8 cells Gordon - You wont regret it !

BalsaDust

PS [size=0]none of the above should be regarded as legally binding and indeed any advice offered is taken entirely at your own risk ........  ;)  [/size]
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on May 26, 2004, 20:29:35 pm
BD...your arguement is annoyingly logical  :D  Do u have any info on the Graupner 6v motor and it's limitations?  If the 7.2v motor can cope with 12v, then the 6v on a pro rata basis can't be far behind surely?  

Liked the caveat emptor BD....."let the buyer beware"   ;)
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Walts on May 26, 2004, 21:59:03 pm
Gordon,

Last year i remember kicking off a massive debate about motors, wiring and batteries.  Due to my complete ignorance in this subject, i like you beleived if a motor had 6v stamped on the side i would burn it out if i gave it anymore volts.

Now the likes of Arel, BD, etc... very patiently explained the whole thing over and over till it stuck.  The 6v is a nominal voltage not a maximum i've cut and pasted the data sheet from the manufacturer of our motors, and although it doesnt show a maximum voltage it does show a typical operating voltage of 5-8v (not min-max typical) I also remember Arel stating quite directly that if i gave my 6v motors 6v the lanc would not fly.  Sorry if this sounds a bit harsh, but trust these guys, they know there stuff ;)





PERMAX 400 6 V # 33 2545 Ideal motor for small, lightweight models up to about 700 g all-up weight. For example, a Panda is adequately powered by this motor, a 6-cell flight pack and a 6 x 3 propeller. Specification:
Dimensions: 27.5 Ø x 40.5 mm
Weight: 73 g
No-load speed: 17,400 rpm
No-load current drain: 0.7 A
Maximum current: 8 A
Current drain at max. efficiency: 3.5 A
Shaft Ø: 2.3 mm
Direction of rotation, `+ to red: right
Typical operating voltage: 5 - 8 V
Max. temperature: 80º C



Hope this helps.

Cheers Walts.
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: CraigO on May 27, 2004, 01:06:53 am
Mornin all

I just love these dabates so i can help but wade in :)

9.6V  on a 6V motor wont hurt it unless you try to pump high amps through it at the same time.  Rich'e comment a few posts back is right on the money.  ( Ozzies banding togehter here)  its high current that is the real killer on brushes and comutators.  the root cause is high currents mean higher heating and infact is is a square law.  so if possible you are better with higher volts and lower amps than the other way round.  

the nacelles in the lanc,  with those lovely big radiators really keeps the motors cool so i would go with the 9.6 volt batteries on the 6V motors an look for a current draw around 30 Amps and all should be jake.!

lots of modellers use the 6 volt motors at 9.6 volts.  I have a little simple 400 that uses a 6 volt speed 400 motor and i have been running it off an 8 cell pack for ages.  I love it.  It hasnt died yet, and it gets almost no cooling,  sometimes it is too hot to touch at the end of a flight :(  im a bad boy eh!

Go for it gordon it will all be OK.

Cheers all

Craig
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on May 27, 2004, 12:36:21 pm
Quoteif i gave my 6v motors 6v the lanc would not fly
...yup, the sums don't add up!

Quotethe root cause is high currents mean higher heating
.....so my parallel circuit ISN'T first choice!  Since current varies in these circuits and voltage in series circuits.....ooops!   ;)

Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Arel on May 27, 2004, 13:49:49 pm
Quote

PERMAX 400 6 V # 33 2545 Ideal motor for small, lightweight models up to about 700 g all-up weight. For example, a Panda is adequately powered by this motor, a 6-cell flight pack and a 6 x 3 propeller. Specification:
Dimensions: 27.5 Ø x 40.5 mm
Weight: 73 g
No-load speed: 17,400 rpm
No-load current drain: 0.7 A
Maximum current: 8 A
Current drain at max. efficiency: 3.5 A
Shaft Ø: 2.3 mm
Direction of rotation, `+ to red: right
Typical operating voltage: 5 - 8 V
Max. temperature: 80º C



Hope this helps.

Cheers Walts.



Gordon,

If you're still in doubt....Ask yourself what value in the above chart is listed as a "maximum" value. Now a page or so back you were talking about 7.2 volts and 44-46 amps. Thats 11-11.5 Amps PER MOTOR or about 40% more than the MAXIMUM stated tolerance. As you found with the 7.2v pack, the voltage will drop under load to about 8.5 ish volts, which is only about 6 or 7% above the "typical" value...

Your call though ;D

Rich
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on May 27, 2004, 17:13:01 pm
QuoteTypical operating voltage: 5 - 8 V
....I suppose the vagueness of this statement allows for a safe working voltage of, say, a volt dropped from the 9.6v pack (as u said Arel my 7.2v pack was producing 6.1v at the motors).

The more I read here the more I think converting the circuit to parallel might have been a teeny weeny bit silly!  ;)
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Arel on May 28, 2004, 07:43:14 am
Quote from: Gordon on May 27, 2004, 17:13:01 pm

The more I read here the more I think converting the circuit to parallel might have been a teeny weeny bit silly!  ;)


Gordon,

The only silly thing is that you waited so long to go parallel ;D ;D

Seriously though, because you went for the 6v motors you were always going to need 14 or 16 cells to run a series/parallel circuit, which equals lots of weight.

If you are worried about the cost, can you remove a couple of cells from one of your 6 cell packs and add it to the other pack?. I would suggest just buying another cell of the same make/capacity but if you've been charging discharging the packs you have, they may not "balance"

Or can you justify the purchase by saying you need it for your Spitfire :)

Rich
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on May 28, 2004, 12:10:20 pm
QuoteOr can you justify the purchase by saying you need it for your Spitfire
...wot u think Rich?  ;) ;)
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on May 30, 2004, 00:46:21 am
Hi guys...well I'm happy!  My new design for the cockpit works a treat and should be ready & finished in about a couple of hours work.  Litespan covered it yesterday, so will spray it dark green pretty soon.  ;)  Pic to follow!

Ok...u win!  Was doing some surfing re the Ripmax Spitfire I want to buy and Galaxy are selling it with most of the bits I'll need..including the Permax 6v motor needed and a 9.6v battery pack...nuff said!  :o

While on this subject the Kan (chinese) 9.6v @ 3300MAh pack is approximately £28 with the GP equivalent pack from Overlander at £39...quite a difference?

Walts...I'll have to call that guy re my decals as they still haven't arrived!
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Arel on May 30, 2004, 05:13:55 am
Gordon,

Don't forget that you are losing your failsafe series/parallel design, so check, recheck then check again all your connectors/soldering before committing to flight ;D

Can't comment on the Kan cells, quite a few guys at the club fly with the smaller 950/1050 Kans and are happy with the performance tho'...

Rich

Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on May 30, 2004, 09:55:27 am
QuoteDon't forget that you are losing your failsafe series/parallel design, so check, recheck then check again all your connectors/soldering before committing to flight
...hang on young Oz person!  

The parallel circuit is inherintly safer than a series circuit!  If u get a break in your Christmas tree lights Arel all the lights go out (series), not if they are in parallel (only the affected bulb goes out aka your domestic house circuit!).  If anything does go wrong I'd expect 3 motors to still run or as would be expected in a twin series setup either the inboard or outboard motors would completely stop.  That is one reason why I chose parallel (and Craig's excellent reasoning too).

As for the Kan packs, I think I'll buy 2 packs and have lots of options re the Spit and lanc.  ;)

Time on the lanc today...amazin'!  Got the bomb sight and the bomb sequence panel done and now ready to glue the cockpit to the removable lower balsa piece tomorrow.  Have I actually done something today?  :D
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: CraigO on May 31, 2004, 00:59:54 am
Hi All

Gordon  sounds like good progress is being made.  I think you have gone the right way,  parallel is the only way to go with the 6 V motors.   i was tying, badly, to put the case for the 8 cell pack and lower amps over the 7 or 6 cell packs and higher amps

love to see some more pis of the cockpit?

cheers

CO

Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Arel on May 31, 2004, 07:03:21 am
Quote from: Gordon on May 30, 2004, 09:55:27 am
QuoteDon't forget that you are losing your failsafe series/parallel design, so check, recheck then check again all your connectors/soldering before committing to flight
...hang on young Oz person!  

The parallel circuit is inherintly safer than a series circuit!  If u get a break in your Christmas tree lights Arel all the lights go out (series), not if they are in parallel (only the affected bulb goes out aka your domestic house circuit!).  If anything does go wrong I'd expect 3 motors to still run or as would be expected in a twin series setup either the inboard or outboard motors would completely stop.  That is one reason why I chose parallel (and Craig's excellent reasoning too).

As for the Kan packs, I think I'll buy 2 packs and have lots of options re the Spit and lanc.  ;)

Time on the lanc today...amazin'!  Got the bomb sight and the bomb sequence panel done and now ready to glue the cockpit to the removable lower balsa piece tomorrow.  Have I actually done something today?  :D



What the....??? ::)

I remember discussing this six months or so ago and your reasoning for a series/parallel circuit was the safety benefits offered if one motor quit or a connector failed...

I seem to remember you mentioning asymetric thrust yada yada being a problem with parallel circuits, whereas a series/parallel would allow a pair of motors to always run in the event of a failure...

I can't think of ANY other reason why you'd bother to run series/parallel. The added weight penalty would outweigh any duration gains.

You don't need to sell the benefits of a parallel circuit to me...Have you forgotten the efforts I went to to explain the benefits to you? :(

Rich
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on May 31, 2004, 11:47:27 am
Arel...don't throw your teddy out of the cot!  ;)  Since then we found that Tom had ploughed in with only 3 motors, so if a series setup goes pear shaped and you are left with 2 then get the bin bag ready!  I agree that asymmetric was a problem I mentioned, but is it really?  Since watching Andy's efforts in a Force 10 Jersey gale I think I could cope!  ;D


Quotelove to see some more pis of the cockpit?

...sent off for some cockpit green and painted the outside frame onto litespan...litespan really does take the paint well...Walts!  :D :D  Going to glue the cockpit today, so pics soon Craig.
Quote
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on May 31, 2004, 23:28:33 pm
Her's the first of a few of the finished (just about) cockpit.  Still to paint the inside cockpit green, but it fits a dream!  ;)  (http://rcmf.co.uk/old-uploads/GeorgeinhisOfficedn1.JPG)

The second shows the locking pin.

(http://rcmf.co.uk/old-uploads/CockpitFrontPinAssemblyn1.JPG)


The next one shows the area pre-painted, as it shows up better in the pic.  The pin is fixed.

(http://rcmf.co.uk/old-uploads/Undersidepre-paintedcockpitassemblyn1.JPG)

The last one shows the front pin hole, I used a brass insert from a servo rubber mounting for this...worked a treat.

(http://rcmf.co.uk/old-uploads/CockpitUnfittedn1.JPG)
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: CraigO on June 01, 2004, 00:51:15 am
thanks for posting the pics Gordon

it looks absolutely marvelous,  you and walts are really producing the goods here!

now come on fellas.  Get em into the air !  you will just love em!

Hey Rich, what progress on the O2 and the Lanc ?

did you see my brother got on the podium for the silver star at Hidden Valley.  I am really chuffed for him!

cheers all

Craig
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Arel on June 01, 2004, 04:51:44 am
Quote from: Gordon on May 31, 2004, 11:47:27 am
Arel...don't throw your teddy out of the cot!  ;)


And don't you go the raw prawn with me :D

I didn't throw my one eyed one legged teddy...but I nearly spat me dummy. ;) I guess I wasn't ready for your instant conversion to the "other side". I think the only thing that would surprise me more, would be the pope saying Allahu Akhbah ;D

QuoteSince then we found that Tom had ploughed in with only 3 motors, so if a series setup goes pear shaped and you are left with 2 then get the bin bag ready!  I agree that asymmetric was a problem I mentioned, but is it really?  Since watching Andy's efforts in a Force 10 Jersey gale I think I could cope!  ;D


I thought that the whole reason for going series/parallel was that whatever happened you would have two motors running....but....two motors running full chat wouldn't be enough to sustain flight, but would be enough to make a controlled descent. Mind you by the time you work out something is wrong it might be too late...In which case the captain always stays with his ship until everyone else has baled out ;) ;D

Quote
Quotelove to see some more pis of the cockpit?

...sent off for some cockpit green and painted the outside frame onto litespan...litespan really does take the paint well...Walts!  :D :D  Going to glue the cockpit today, so pics soon Craig.
Quote



That cockpit is looking good

Rich
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Arel on June 01, 2004, 04:58:54 am
Craig,

The O-2 is sooooo close to being ready for flight. It could be ready in an hour or so...if I scab a few bits from another plane.

I've been working on the UC mounts and nacelles for the Lanc and trying to work out how to run the air hoses etc.

I broke my own rule and am also building a T3D II AND an Ultimate Bipe...I justify it by saying that I need more practise before risking the Lanc/Liberator/Lanc Ii etc.

Did I mention that I'm looking to design/copy an EFI design, all depron Lanc at about 48"? span.

Saw your brother on TV on the weekend, didn't see how he went tho'

Rich
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on June 01, 2004, 13:07:39 pm
Well guys took your info on board and ordered a GP 9.6V @3300MAh pack from Overlander today!  Cost..ouch!  :D  The weight was a major factor at 475g, as my 14.4v 'monster' was 750g!
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Walts on June 01, 2004, 13:39:20 pm
Gordon, your making me green with envy at your progress.

My Lanc is ready for re-spraying, but has been put back on the top shelf  :( as SHMBO has decided we now need a complete new kitchen and driveway done like yesterday!! :-\  So after organizing all this i hope to get back into the Lanc next week.  Mind you the benefit of getting someone else to do the work means i'll be free to spend my time on the Lanc  ;D ;D
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on June 01, 2004, 15:58:46 pm
QuoteGordon, your making me green with envy at your progress.
...u serious Walts?  Your work is awesome, but hey a driveway and new kitchen?  

Been there, as SWMBO wanted a new range cooker last year and off course all the electrics and plumbing were just where this monster was going to be fitted!  Plus had to build a ramp to get it into the house and on and on and on...u get the drift!

Starting to litespan the fuselage tonight and hope to finish the bomb sight / selector panel in a few days during my lunchtimes!
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on June 02, 2004, 20:58:07 pm
My lanc is on the top shelf too Walts, but for a far different reason, as we've 2 kittens who would love to check out the excellent scratching properties of balsa!   :D

Started with the black litespan today at lunchtime, pleased with the quick coverage of this stuff...I'd recommend it to anyone.

Still no sign of those decals yet...must call Paul soon to chase them up.
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on June 03, 2004, 23:36:59 pm
Finished the bombsight and selector panel, so pics on their way soon.  Back to litespaning the fuselage for the next few days.  Been promised a day to myself on Saturday as daughter and SWMBO are off on a Brownie walk for the day  ;)  I'll try and get the lower litespan done then and must get those decals chased up too.

Incidentally, where are Dek, Tree Magnet and others who used to be on the thread?  Seems we have a nucleus of Walts, Arel, Craig & BD (my long term guru and strange person who likes to fly in Jersey gales!).  By the way BD, my model club pupils watched your excellent video tonight and all said u were dead jammy with that take off!  But doesn't flying just need a little luck sometimes?  ;)
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on June 04, 2004, 12:07:10 pm
Called Precision Markings this morning and decals are on their way.     :D :D :D  Won't need them fitted for a few weeks but will pic them if anyone is interested (ie: Walts)?
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: chrysagon on June 04, 2004, 22:50:14 pm
Gordon

I'd like to see the decals. Interested in their quality.

cheers
Chas   :D
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Walts on June 05, 2004, 13:57:39 pm
gordon
sorry i havn't acknowledged your comments re the decals, yes i am still interested in seeing them, but more so in the sizes i.e. overall roundel sizes and ratios or sizes between red, blue, white etc.

cheers Walts.
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on June 05, 2004, 14:21:53 pm
Hi guys...decals still not here but should be arriving Tuesday / Wednesday I'd think!  As SWMBO and daughter were off walking today it was full speed ahead on the litespaning.  Fuselage about an hour to finish this time tonight.  Six hours modelling...now I know how Walts feels.. ;D :D ;) ;D

Here's a pic of my scatchbuilt bombsight and selector panel I finished on Thursday.  
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Walts on June 06, 2004, 16:24:13 pm
Hi Chaps,

Great pic's Gordon 8)

Well i've put my 'spray booth' up again and i am back in business ;D.
Got all the black sprayed today, although some spots need slight rubbing back so i'll give it another coat tomorrow, Then hopefully move on to the camo over the next couple of days (gordon lite-span indeed!) :D :D



(http://rcmf.co.uk/old-uploads/spray002.jpg)
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on June 06, 2004, 19:05:05 pm
Quote(gordon lite-span indeed!)
.......?????????  LIKE the spray booth...just need to move the campers out?  ;D

Ahem....result of a days work Walts  ;) :D :D :D :D :D
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Walts on June 07, 2004, 09:25:50 am
Quote from: Gordon on June 06, 2004, 19:05:05 pm

Ahem....result of a days work Walts  ;) :D :D :D :D :D



Ahem, i better go evict the campers out, and get on with some work to catch up with you! :D :D
Title: Re:Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on June 07, 2004, 15:58:47 pm
A little done on the mid-upper turret, got it sprayed and hopefully the maskol will work!  Got those campers out yet Walts?   :D
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on June 08, 2004, 15:51:20 pm
What a pretty little site we have now  8)  Got the mid-upper finished, but dropped the front turret last night, so not finished  :'(  Still no sign of my new battery pack or those decals..... ???
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Walts on June 08, 2004, 22:38:18 pm
Hi Gordon, yeah, i got the black resprayed, still not perfect a little bit more work to do on it!

Nice site, only problem is, it wont let me look at your pics no more ??? (pehaps the moderator could chip in here now please! ;) ) its telling me im not authorised to download or view attachments on this site :(

Cheers Walts.
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on June 08, 2004, 23:15:30 pm
Lost my first attempt at posting, so here's the quick version.  Can't find the picture option on here, so attachments can't be enabled yet, so this Luddite will keep his pics until tomorrow!  Had to laugh tonight when I phoned my 'local' model shop.  The Inverness Model Shop had sent my Cockpit Green tins to the shetlands and they still got here eventually  ;D  I then asked what would a Ripmax ARTF Spitfire cost?  Ripmax recommended price is £69.99...The shop quoted £89.99.....godsmacked, no wonder I'll be ordering from Al's Hobbies in London for £59.99 + p&p.

PS...put the pics on the Priory Lanc thread on the USA E-Zone.  Will do it here tomorrow if the administrator enables it!
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: swarfmaker on June 09, 2004, 17:47:21 pm

  HI Gordon

   Lets see now ams volts =props+motors therefor i must have been in a time warp seems to me
  we've been here be at some other time, In my dreams or is it another nightmare.
                           
                              happy birday for whenever it was.   [young man]       


                                                             Barry     
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on June 09, 2004, 22:03:07 pm
Here's the pic i couldn't post last night.  Got my GP 9.6v 3300MAh pack today...now that should get the lanc off the ground and fit my Ripmax Spitfire too.  :D  Sprayed the velcro tonight to tone it down and will have to modify the battery bay and connectors to get this pack to fit...I just love this model  ;D

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on June 10, 2004, 19:35:46 pm
The decals arrived today  ;)  They are FANTASTIC....will post them on here in an hour.
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Walts on June 10, 2004, 20:08:04 pm
Hi Chaps.

Got the camo painted at last and i am still not happy  :( I should have invested in a decent airbrush, instead i used my trusted old badger.  The overspray was horrendous.  Dont suppose anyone knows how to remove it do they?

Anyway pic attached (i know very tiny, i had to make it so small so site would accept it) of progress so far.

Gordon, turret looks good 8) i look forward to pics of decals  :)

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on June 10, 2004, 21:07:09 pm
Walts...she looks a beaut, oversprayed or not she still looks a beaut.  After all, the surface finishers in the RAF oversprayed everything when I was in the mob.  ;D 

As for the decals, I think they are superb and way bejond anything I could scan in.  U can't see the 'Spirit of Russia' decals as they are white on white (found them between the smaller yellow edged ones after I called Paul Boyle wondering if he had forgotten to send them  ::) ).  Paul also supplies the softening chemical (who's name I've forgotten at this time) and he's sending me up some..as I forgot to order it!  :D  If u are wondering why the bomb sorties look like they have missing sorties, it's because the 'missing' sorties are actually white coloured bombs for special missions.  Anyhow, here they are:



[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Walts on June 10, 2004, 21:18:49 pm
Thanks Gordon.  The decals look superb, the only thing that is putting me off right now is the time you had to wait to get them :-\

How long ago did you actually order them?

Cheers
Walts.
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on June 10, 2004, 21:30:53 pm
Good question Walts...hang on I'll get my abacus out!   Found the reference on Page 15...it was April 10th when I first sent Paul an E-mail.  He said he had had flu, so got to give him the benefit of the doubt on that one!  And besides I think they were worth waiting for, now that they are here!

Ordered a Ripmax Spitfire from Al's Models this morning...my new power pack will have it flying forever!  Guess what?  They are out of stock until mid-July  :'(   
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Walts on June 10, 2004, 22:56:23 pm
Quote from: Gordon on June 10, 2004, 21:30:53 pm

Ordered a Ripmax Spitfire from Al's Models this morning...my new power pack will have it flying forever!  Guess what?  They are out of stock until mid-July  :'(   



Now why doesnt that surprise me, i have an Al's Hobbies near where i live and it seems to be ran by a couple of kids that havn't got a clue what they are talking about, i try and avoid the place whenever possible. On the other hand try My Hobbies at Leytonstone www.myhobbies.co.uk there just up the road from my station and really know there stuff.  If it's the 600 size 48" spit i believe they do it for £59.99. Theres only a limited stock showing on website, but you can phone them and if they have it they will send it direct. Hope this helps.

Have you seen the June edition of RCM&E which includes a rather nice looking plan for a 39" electric Mosquito by Tony N. Looks a simple to build quite impressive little model. Must put it on my list of things to build  8)

Cheers Walts.
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Arel on June 11, 2004, 12:49:43 pm
Walts,

Apart from thre fact that your Lanc looks like a late war "day" scheme, I can't see much wrong with it :D. If you really want a solid paint scheme with small "soft" edges, you could try making paint masks from stiff card and sitting them up from the surfaces on blutack/plasicene etc.

As for the Mosquito plan...maybe we can all agree to meet here in 12 months to start that journey :)

Gordon,

November eh? Are you sure SWMBO isn't planning a big Guy Fawlkes celebration at your expense??? ;) :D :D. I must say the decals look the business tho'. Maybe we Lanc faithful could be there (online ;)) in August/September,  while SWMBO is out shopping for new boots etc
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Walts on June 11, 2004, 20:57:25 pm
Arel, I agree the earth paint is lighter than most people put on their models, there is 2 reasons for this,

firstly the BBMF Lanc, The Canadian Lanc and S for Sugar at Hendon have all got very light earth painted on them and these are probaly the main full size Lancs that people see.

Secondly i've got this theory, But its only my theory, not gospel, so dont jump on me  :D :D  When we make scale models we are scalling down a full size aircraft in this case 17 times.  So in that case why not scale down the colours as well.  By making the colours more pastel i beleive it gives a model a much more reaslistic look.  The models i've seen at shows or in magazines that have been painted in full on colours look very hard and toy like which can totally spoil an otherwise perfect model.
But hey like i said its only a theory  :)

Cheers Walts.
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on June 12, 2004, 01:10:35 am
QuoteThe models i've seen at shows or in magazines that have been painted in full on colours look very hard and toy like which can totally spoil an otherwise perfect model.
....noticed that on the Dam Busters Commemoration photos when Tony Nijheus (spelling?) got his lanc tail nearly shot off with a pyrotechnic mess up.  The big lancs looked VERY toy like.

I've sprayed a few areas on the lanc tonight as the balsa slowly disappears from view.  Made up a foam bed for the battery pack and epoxied in the velcro straps, so I should consider myself lucky I got this far as SWMBO is on full throttle baking for the school fete tomorrow and off course being a pillar of the community I'll need to turn up to flog some cakes!  :-\ 

Walts, MUCH thanks for the Spitfire info and I'll act on that tomorrow (between selling the cakes!).
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Arel on June 12, 2004, 13:32:45 pm
Walts,

That's not a bad theory. I read something like that when I was into building plastic kits and entering them into competitions. I wasn't trying to knock your work, your Lanc really is looking "right". If you want soft edges that aren't too wide, the masking system I mentioned works well. By holding the masks up off the surface by about 5mm or so you end up with a soft edge that is only a few mm wide...another plastic modelling tip I picked up. Not that I'm suggesting you spend another day or so sanding ;) :D :D

I've finished my Cessna O-2, and hopefully will maiden it tomorrow....Soooo it looks like I've got no excuses to put off finishing the Lanc

Rich
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on June 12, 2004, 18:53:40 pm
Cakes sold, family now visiting..lanc progress...zilch!  :'(
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Walts on June 12, 2004, 20:48:25 pm
Thanks for the tips Arel, and no offence was ever taken  ;) honestly i just like to explain my reasons when i do something so you guys can chip in, it all helps with the end results, so cheers  :)

Gordon i know exactly how you feel, when i am working a 'tour' i dont get to touch the lanc by the time i get in and with the nights.  I just have to make do with my days off, lucky i have so many of them  ;D ;D
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Walts on June 13, 2004, 14:28:00 pm
Gordon, i've decided that being as im ready to add my markings i can't wait 4-5weeks for a set of decal's.  So i am going to choose a standard red lettering scheme and paint everything.  So i need some help from you :)  Where did you come up with the sizes for your roundels and fin flashes? and could you please give me the sizes of each colour circle, fuzz and top wing and the same for the fin flashes, if this isnt to much trouble. Thankyou

Walts.

P.s If anyone knows any good sites where i can obtain profile pictures to obtain letter coding i would very much appreciate the info.  :)
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on June 13, 2004, 17:01:40 pm
Walts....once the family recede into the distance I'll measure the decals, probably monday PM.

QuoteWhere did you come up with the sizes for your roundels and fin flashes?
..it was a combination of proportional measurement where I couldn't find references and where I could it was from my Lancaster reference book.

As of today the fuselage is now devoid of unpainted balsa!  Once the wings are covered I'll be ready to spray the model (so I'm about 4 weeks behind u Walts!)  ;)
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Walts on June 15, 2004, 23:28:16 pm
Gordon, dont worry about measuring them decals ;) i've spent the day surfing the net (much to SWMBO annoyance!) but i found this great site that lists just about every type of RAF roundel ever used.  Then it was just a matter of choosing one, enlarging it to the right size for the model and printing it off.  Now i can just use it as a patten to set my paint compass to for each colour and job done.  I've saved it to my favourites for future reference, heres the link in case your interested.

http://www.homepages.mcb.net/bones/01UKAV/roundels/RAF_ROUNDELS.htm

Cheers
Walts.
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on June 15, 2004, 23:47:09 pm
Walts...having come on the thread about 6 minutes after u, I looked at the site and it's good!  Now for the decals u might need for the rest of the lanc that were not on the site!   ;D

Nose letters (length x height in millimetres) = 14 x 21,  Tail letters = 38 x 60,  Fuselage aircraft serial number (ie: EE136 for my model) = 52 x 17,  Fuselage Code Numbers (ie: CAR for my model) = 48 x 75 for each letter.  'Spirit of Russia' logos = 28 x 20,  Bomb Sorties 23 x 55.  Hope that helps!

As for the lanc...'George' the pilot is now glued as part of the cockpit assembly.  As the battery bay is now modified to take the 8 cell pack George is removed complete with the canopy and the pack can be changed from above without removing the wing.   8)
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on June 16, 2004, 23:47:55 pm
Well here's my efforts on George's front office and the bomb aimers position...with windows, bomb sight, selector panel and made and fitted his crouching pad tonight too (yes, I DO need a life Arel!).  ;D  SWMBO has promised to make some Laura Ashley curtains for the lanc!  ;D ;D ;D



[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on June 16, 2004, 23:51:01 pm
Here's the last of them.  ;)

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on June 17, 2004, 00:16:20 am
Walts...Mainly Models MIGHT have stock of the Ripmax Spitfire tomorrow...so will call and have my bits crossed they have it.  ;)


Bits weren't crossed enough!  >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Walts on June 18, 2004, 21:55:05 pm
Gordon, Thanks for the info re the sizes, i should have checked the site earlier cause i came up with my own measurments before i saw your post.  And guess what they are very very simular.
Sorry about your dilema with the spit, its always the same, you spend ages deliberating wether to get it, then when you decide to go for it no ones got it!!

Your pics of your front end are looking good gordon  8) Phew well i think that gets me upto date again!

Glad i decided not to order those decals cause i'd have been waiting weeks for them, and guess what i've painted just about all the markings already.

You might of guessed that i wanted to model 'S' for sugar but the yellow trim letters were putting me off.  Well i found some great info on the net all about her complete with photo's of her in 1944 and she was still carrying standard red codes then, less the fin 'S's, so thats the way i am going, also there was photo's of her crew, flight log's for her crew and some stories of her antics, great stuff, just what i needed. 

Was going to post some pics, but to get the file to 20KB you would need a magnifying glass to see them :-\  Does anyone know how to resize the file without making the pics like a postage stamp!  :-[
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on June 18, 2004, 23:13:52 pm
QuoteDoes anyone know how to resize the file without making the pics like a postage stamp! 
....nope, as I've the same proble, thought the recent upgrade would improve pic size?  If need be I post on the E-zone and cross reference from here if need be.  However, u can upload up to 50kb on here via the 'image uploads' option...never used it but should work!
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Walts on June 19, 2004, 08:15:52 am
Thankyou gordon, i didnt see the image upload button, thought it had been taken away  :-[

Anyway heres the pic's

(http://rcmf.co.uk/old-uploads/endspray.jpg)

(http://rcmf.co.uk/old-uploads/endspray1.jpg)

(http://rcmf.co.uk/old-uploads/endspray2.jpg)

(http://rcmf.co.uk/old-uploads/endspray3.jpg)

(http://rcmf.co.uk/old-uploads/endspray4.jpg)
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Arel on June 19, 2004, 08:25:09 am
Quote from: Gordon on June 18, 2004, 23:13:52 pm
QuoteDoes anyone know how to resize the file without making the pics like a postage stamp! 
....nope, as I've the same proble, thought the recent upgrade would improve pic size?  If need be I post on the E-zone and cross reference from here if need be.  However, u can upload up to 50kb on here via the 'image uploads' option...never used it but should work!


Walts,

I tried uploading pics to the gallery...but I was on the turps at the time so they didn't work :D :D However being at the stage you're at with your Lanc, perhaps you could make an extra effiort....I'd REALLY like to see your markings etc.

Gordon,

Where do I start??? the list of things you missed would fill a book...

Only joking, that's some lovely detail work. If you are looking for an easy way to add any detail....Think wires...that's right...wires. Half a dozen wires running out of your BSP etc might give you something to do while you wait for November to roll around.


And now for a question...

Did you guys have much trouble covering your wings with the nacelles fitted?. I'm only asking because my plans suggest covering the wing, then cutting back the covering and fitting the nacelles.


Cheers,

Rich
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Arel on June 19, 2004, 08:29:24 am
Walts,

You must have been posting while I was typing ;)

Looks great mate...Is that RAF issue carpet under the Lanc?....Looks like roundels to me :D

Rich
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on June 19, 2004, 15:16:47 pm
Walts...like the TV  ;D ;D ;D ;D  do u get much heat out of that gas (?) fire?  Had one ages ago and it was b...dy useless, so got a wood burning one (sorry Arel, this is about heating a room, not that u worry about that in sub-zero Oz).

Arel...............
QuoteHalf a dozen wires running out of your BSP etc might give you something to do while you wait for November to roll around.
...could u tell me what the hell are u on about?  ;D 
QuoteDid you guys have much trouble covering your wings with the nacelles fitted?.
...ask me that in about a weeks time, as I'll be doing that very soon.  ;)

Walts....The lanc looks stunning...if I didn't have one I'd be jealous!   :D :D  Are u going to fit a George?  Incidentally, u mentioned the mossie in this months RCM&E, so I had a skim read thru a copy and saw the 'best of the best' article advertising a model meet somewhere.  The pic they chose was a model lanc and to be honest our efforts look so much better!  So take a bow those like SM, BD, yourself etc, as we can't be doing much wrong when it comes to making a model or 3? 
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Walts on June 19, 2004, 20:53:31 pm
Gordon, yes the gas fire is bl***y useless and never gets used, as you can probaly see from the amount of dust sitting on the coals  :-[ ;D yes my tv is quite nice, we call it the portable (but then you havnt seen whats down the garden, but thats another story!)  8) 

Arel, so you've guessed where i got my roundel measurments from then  :D :D :D
Re you query about covering the nacelles i admit i didnt even fancy trying it, so i built them as part of the wing as per the plan then tissued the wing around them,  but used several coats of sanding sealer and wet and dry on the nacelles until the grain was hidden.  When sprayed they came up very smooth.

I used a new technique (well new to me) for the lettering, i found a suitable font on the pc then brought some A4 repositionable label paper, put it in the printer and ran the letters straight off.  I then cut out the middle of the letters and stuck the stencil to the lanc, painted over them twice then removed.  The results are quite stunning with better edges then i've managed with masking tape in the past.  The paper is not cheap at £8.99 for 25 sheets, but i only used 2, so that means i've got enough for 12 models, so its not that bad in the long run.

Cheers all
Walts.
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Arel on June 20, 2004, 04:07:04 am
Gordon,

I was (as usual) being a bit tongue in cheek. The BSP and bombsight are electronic yes?  Then they need wires running to/from them to provide power and connect to the bomb release mechanism....

I know I know That's being a bit picky...but you do have 5 months to wait till your maiden ;) :D

Cheers

Rich

P.S. This smilie says it all really  :D
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Walts on June 20, 2004, 08:09:07 am
Arel,  Sorry i miss read your last post re: covering the wings, (not the nacelles) :-[ I used 4 pieces for the top and 5 pieces for the bottom of the wing, belly, 2 inner panels and 2 outer panels.  But i used tissue and dope so it was easy to hide the joins.
This way i only had to worry about going round one nacelle per piece of covering, quite easy in the end.  Hope this helps.

Walts.
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: swarfmaker on June 20, 2004, 08:13:03 am

  Gordon

  Quick question     Does it realy take 5 months to find a maiden up there, or have you been in the
que for year's.
 
I made my engine pods quick change so's the wing's  [i made 4 sets in all + extra fus ] could be coverd in one go.


                                                Barry
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Walts on June 20, 2004, 11:56:03 am
Gordon, I've just got to paint my wing walkway line's and make a small bomb stamp to individually stamp on the 100 plus bomb symbols (DOH!) Then i can concentrate on the final assembly, which brings me to my next question  ;)
As we are using the same motor/gearbox combo how did you fit your spinners in the end? i know this was a topic of discussion some time back, but i cant be done with trying to sift through all the old threads to find it!

Cheers Walts.

P.s hi to swarfmaker and Arel again, its nice to see the thread busy again  8)
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on June 20, 2004, 21:08:50 pm
Hi Guys....Walts re the spinners and how they are fixed.  I found that gluing a
Quote
circular liteply piece to the rear of the spinner and drilling the front of the spinner to fit the screw seemed an uncomplicated setup.  I was thinking of using a little piece of black litespan to cover the hole when I exibit it, but that's just for visual effect.  The screws I got with the Multiplex gearbox to attach the spinner were much too short so went up a couple of lengths.   

QuoteDoes it realy take 5 months to find a maiden up there, or have you been in the que for year's.
...got a maiden and married her!  Pity she's withdrawn my flight certificate until the model fair, so I'll fly my spit (when it finally arrives..Mainly Models didn't get any last week).  >:(

QuoteThe BSP and bombsight are electronic yes?  Then they need wires running to/from them to provide power and connect to the bomb release mechanism....
I know I know That's being a bit picky...but you do have 5 months to wait till your maiden
...yeah yeah and I'll fit the deflectors on the mid-upper etc etc...hey Arel, I'd like to finish this and fly something before the Scottish summer finishes (in about a week the way the weather is going!).  U can spend too much time in the workshop and miss out on the other side of the hobby...this lanc has been on the go for over 16 months now, so I'm glad I'm nearly finished her! 
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: swarfmaker on June 20, 2004, 21:13:21 pm

  HI  Walts
  An easy one this .T he back plate [if your useing one] goes on as normal before the prop and gets
held on with the prop The spinner has a cart load of fixings my way is a central screw fixing.
Being equiped with all manner of power tools i drilled and taped the shaft,however if no taps and
don't laf just drill the shaft and put a match stick in the hole then use an ordinary screw,it works,
i never do anything the hard way i always look for somthing [like me] dead simple.
            hope this gives you an idea on how to do yours.

                                                         Barry
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: swarfmaker on June 20, 2004, 21:33:00 pm
  HI Gordon

  Looks like we answerd that last one at the same time,exept for the right shape spinners try using
a pice of foam on a bit of dowel, chuck it in lathe or power drill and sand to profile,light and CHEAP
that must be ok by you.For crew make mould in plastercene,coverwith tishoo afew times, cut in
half remove plaster stick back together and you have individual crew to paint up,and they are light.
No more tips me finger iz get in saw.ta ta

                                               Barry
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Walts on June 20, 2004, 22:10:47 pm
Thanks Gordon and swarfmaker  :) gives me something to think about, not quite ready to do yet, but its good to gather tips and ideas in advance  8)

Cheers Walts.
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on June 21, 2004, 13:47:39 pm
Walts...just re-read my info re the spinners and boy was it vague!  My solution was to glue a pre-drilled liteply circular section into the spinner IN FRONT OF the propellor.  Then lightly glue the prop to the liteply and when the epoxy has a little 'grab', align the spinner by screwing the prop directly onto the gearwheel.  Hope that has got me out of the luddite class for technical authoring?  ;) 
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: swarfmaker on June 21, 2004, 17:52:27 pm
  Gordon
    ????????????  ER  don't you have a prop shaft then??????
  being an i d ten t  i'll go to the foot of our stairs and jump off.  [fear not i'm x para]

                                         Barry
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on June 21, 2004, 23:19:43 pm
Quotedon't you have a prop shaft then
...SM, the multiplex setup srews onto the larger of the 2 plastic gear wheels so no prop shaft! 

Sods law decrees that I've spent the evening setting up my new all-singing all-dancing Epson combination printer.  Now that I've received my decals from Precision Markings I tried the printer scan and copy functions and the quality is stunning......now if I'd waited for the printer would I have needed to send away for them?   ;)
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: swarfmaker on June 22, 2004, 06:57:35 am

  Gordon
    Not only decals, a photo of a dashboard scaned and printed to aize looks ok for brownie points.

                                                       Barry
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on June 22, 2004, 11:25:59 am
Good point SM  ;)
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on June 22, 2004, 21:29:23 pm
Now turned my attention to the wing and started sanding down the under surfaces.  Looking at the nacelles Arel, it looks easier than I thought, as they are removable so shouldn't be too much trouble.  Arel have u started your lanc yet?
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: swarfmaker on June 23, 2004, 11:05:22 am

  GORDON
                 A b&d mouse works wonders on large lumps,and you have one large lump to go at.

                                                         Barry
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on June 23, 2004, 15:30:18 pm
SM...heard those B&D mice are really good, so I haven't got one!  ;D

Mean to run my new battery pack tonight and checkout the wiggly amps.  I'm going to remove each nacelle sand it down and litespan it, so should make life a little easier SM.  ;)
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Walts on June 23, 2004, 19:11:29 pm
gordon
         thanks for the clarification, it makes much more sence now.  8)
When you say your naccelles are removable do you mean the whole thing from the wing or just the cowls?.

I've made 2 bomb stamps and neither are any good, so i've got to rethink how to apply my bomb tallies  :-\ In the meantime im working on the finish with a bit more detail.

Cheers Walts.
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on June 23, 2004, 22:49:05 pm
Hi Walts...here's a pic of the spinner setup, as I thought of your question when I was removing them and the nacelles tonight, prior to litespanning them.  The nacelles are really the motor covers and are just as the plan set out.  So they leave half of the nacelle behind when they are removed...like your supa dupa vacuum formed ones!

Ran the beast tonight on my new 3300MAh 9.6v pack and at 75% throttle she was drawing 37 amps and 279 watts, so I worked out if my monster was 7 lbs (might be but this is 'worst case' fag-packet stuff), she would be producing 42 Watts/lb at three-quarters throttle.  As I've only a 35A ESC fitted hence the throttle limitation!  ;D  Hey Craig u forgot to mention that my parallel setup would need a bigger ESC!  Good job I've the 35A one earmarked for my Spit  ;)  Better type in the info and find out which capacity ESC I'll need, as if the figures from Motorcalc would be believed for the motor resistance, this circuit, in theory, could draw over 80 amps! 

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: swarfmaker on June 24, 2004, 13:18:02 pm

  Gordon
  Just a we bit of electricery for you.  When amotopr is spun say like in a drill it will act as a genny.think ahead ,what comes next ??  .If you aint got a clue ,when the motor is being used as a motor it still acts like a genny,so it generates [suppusedly ] equal and opposite [but not quite]this is why you don't get a dead short[just about 6 times the full running load] on start up.Add to this, when tricery goes through a coil it set up a magnetic field which electricery has trouble passing through,as well and you get all confused just like it does, so there.   
                                 time for my pills now   ta ta

                                                  Barry
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on June 24, 2004, 18:11:44 pm
Thanks for that SM  ??? ???

Here's my busy lunchtime work...not as hi-tech as Walts nacelles...these are planked and litespanned with matt black internals...ah well only 3 to do!  ;)





[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Walts on June 24, 2004, 23:41:01 pm
They look nice gordon, very nice  8) Having opted to make plastic nacelles i can certainly appreciate the work that has gone into making 4 of these wooden ones!

I have always fancied super scaling a model but after a long build have always cut corners to get the thing in the air.  But my infatuation with the Lancaster goes back to my childhood, so i've decided to go all the way with it, though its not the best subject to be trying out new techniques on due to its complex shapes, but anyway here is my first ever attempt at panel lining.
The fin/rudder on the right is just plain sprayed, the one on the left has had panel lines added, just hope i havnt over done it, i read it is very easy to spoil a model at this stage by over doing it.  Mind you it still needs dirtying which should tone it down a bit.

Walts.


(http://rcmf.co.uk/old-uploads/panellinedetailing.jpg)
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on June 25, 2004, 09:05:08 am
Looks terrific Walts...my weathering comes from belting the model in and out of car doors  ;D  Did u spray it silver before doing the matt black panel lines or a.n.other way?  ???
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on June 27, 2004, 03:35:44 am
Well it was good to chat on the site while doing my nacelles...must have worked as I've finished them  ;D  Now onto the wing....oh help!  :-\
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on June 27, 2004, 11:34:29 am
Here's the proof guys!  ;D  Walts...remind me to use the schools vaccuum forming machine next time  ;)



[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on June 27, 2004, 19:58:20 pm
Just spent an hour refining the info for Motorcalc.  Final weight IS a fraction under 7 pounds...ouch, but I did add a fair amount of strenthening and detail.  Found that the props I got with the motor assemblies (7 x 6.5) are not suitable (they stall) and 7 x 5 ones give me the optimum flight and static times (8minutes 29 seconds  & 7 mins 20 secs respectively).  Now here's a question...Motorcalc says I'll draw 26.5A on static with my 7x6.5  props fitted, but it was obvious that at 75% throttle last week my 35A ESC would be exceeded if I moved the throttle further open, so what is going on here?

The electric luddite  :-\
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Walts on June 27, 2004, 20:20:10 pm
lookin good Gordon,slow but rewarding work 8)  I've heard mention of the nexus design's natural cooling exit before but didnt understand it, cause the plan shows the bottom of the nacelle as solid plank.  But looking at yours it becomes obvious what you have done, very good job mate  ;)

The only exit i've got is through the exhaust shrouds, which are quite a bit on the small size, still fingers crossed.

Done a bit more work on the panel lining and weathering, i must say i am quite pleased with the way the model is starting to look, she really does look like she's been to germany and back 100 times!! pics when finished hopefully.

Walts.
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Walts on June 27, 2004, 20:21:54 pm
ooops just seen your last post (slow typer  :-[)  sounds like i might need to change my props as well :-\ keep me posted

Cheers Walts.
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on June 27, 2004, 22:34:45 pm
Thanks for the encouragement Walts..I need it  :D 
QuoteDid u spray it silver before doing the matt black panel lines or a.n.other way?
...by the way what is your method?    Your lanc looks the dogs dangly bits and if u make your exhausts as elongated slots under the flame shrouds then you would not be far off the cross-sectional area that us 'plankers' are using!  ;)
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Walts on June 27, 2004, 23:05:41 pm
Sorry gordon, didnt see your question i must have read before you edited that post! it all came about rather clumsely from the problems i was having getting a smooth finish, i ended up painting an undercoat on the air frame which happened to be white as it was all i had.  i then wet and dryed it right back to leave a nice smooth finish, which left a very thin layer of the white paint.  It was only after spraying the black and camo i decided to add panel lines.  I just used a scribe and straight edge and started scratching lines lightly so only part of the top paint came off to reveal erratic broken white lines that are so fine they actually look like the edge of the metal panels. As its my first attempt i have over done it in certain area's but the overall effect is good.

My exhaust shrouds are moulded as part of the cowls so are completly open on the inside so hopefully they will do the job!

Cheers Walts.
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on June 27, 2004, 23:23:14 pm
Thanks for the info Walts.  My major oversight was to buy black and green litespan.  On reflection I should have litespanned the lanc in off-white litespan and sprayed it as u have done.  To use a simple scribing method is just too easy...so easy it looks brilliant!  Maybe my Hallibag will benefit from my oversight  :D  As u had a childhood thing about the lanc mine was the 1/72nd Airfix Halifax, just loved the 78 Squadron markings too (and did my last tour in the RAF in the Falklands on 78 Squadron!).  Think the Hallibag will be the Traplet plan for 4x0.015ci engines.   ;).

As for my last bit of lanc work before SWMBO comes back tomorrow, I managed to spray the insides of the undercarriage bays black...nice to know I've made a start on the wing, 'cos there's lots to do on it  :'(
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Arel on June 28, 2004, 13:03:29 pm
Quote from: Gordon on June 27, 2004, 19:58:20 pm
Just spent an hour refining the info for Motorcalc.  Final weight IS a fraction under 7 pounds...ouch, but I did add a fair amount of strenthening and detail.  Found that the props I got with the motor assemblies (7 x 6.5) are not suitable (they stall) and 7 x 5 ones give me the optimum flight and static times (8minutes 29 seconds  & 7 mins 20 secs respectively).  Now here's a question...Motorcalc says I'll draw 26.5A on static with my 7x6.5  props fitted, but it was obvious that at 75% throttle last week my 35A ESC would be exceeded if I moved the throttle further open, so what is going on here?

The electric luddite  :-\


Grasshopper,

If I had all the money I've spent on drink...I'd spend it all on drink :D :D

Having said that...how can I mark your work if you don't show your calculations?

Methinks you might have forgotten to carry the 1 or mistaken cosine for tan..or somesuch simple error.

Post your scriblings...and all may or may not be revealed.

Rich

P.S. Is that better, now I'm not "behaving myself"?
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Arel on June 28, 2004, 13:09:03 pm
Walts,

Lovely work on the fins, It doesn't look like you're overdoing it at all. If the detail/weathering looks a bit much at close range, remember that most people will see it at more than the arms length that you're viewing it.

Rich
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: swarfmaker on June 28, 2004, 17:22:31 pm
GORDON

   Motocalc seems to be about right, it's what happens when you build a 4 engined fighter insted
  of a bomber. It should still fly though,just a bit quicker than it should ,still if looks really good no
  one will notice and it may get rid of that Lanc bounce on arrival.You can't have everrything,if it's
  a bit on the windy side mine would hover or fly backwards. [looked stupid]

                                                         Barry

Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on June 28, 2004, 19:09:31 pm
SM...get the idea, so my lanc is a goer then?  Arel..the software just churns out lots of data tables for the stuff u set, so other than the gearboxes, motors, ESC and props I'm using, the rest Motorcalc does.  I did notice that Motorcalc uses 8.4v from a 9.6v pack, but my Wattmeter says nearer 9v...round one to the Wattmeter then!  So if there's more EMF then more current drawn, so that might be one reason?  I noticed that the static amperage is calculated at 31.5A, which is a mite too close to my 35A ESC.   
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Walts on June 28, 2004, 20:26:14 pm
Arel,  Thanks for the encouragement, I am probaly worrying to much, you know how it is when you try something for the first time and arn't sure just where your going.

incedently i lined the whole wing after the tail surfaces and took it one step further by adding a dirty weathered look which immediately transformed my new toy'e look into an over worked under serviced veteran bomber, really pleased with it, just got the fuzz to do now, when i can finally sort out these bomb taillies  :-\

Cheers all Walts.
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: swarfmaker on June 28, 2004, 22:29:13 pm

  GORDON
      Of course it will fly,if not on 8 cells give it 10 if that 's not enough put 480's in and make
   it do as its told .there's always a way.So who cares if its wee bit faster than scale,don't
  forget mine is only a foamie with no pretense at scale, it is built as a fun fly and thats all.
                                               go to it and enjoy

                                                        Barry
 
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on June 28, 2004, 23:26:20 pm
QuoteOf course it will fly,if not on 8 cells give it 10 if that 's not enough put 480's in and make
   it do as its told .there's always a way.So who cares if its wee bit faster than scale,don't
  forget mine is only a foamie with no pretense at scale, it is built as a fun fly and thats all.
                                               go to it and enjoy
................................................thanks for the vote of confidence SM  ;D ;D ;D

Walts...sounds like u are surpassing yourself on the detailing, I've been busy litespanning the engine cowlings.  I'll post a pic tomorrow are Arel was interested how I'd go about doing it...I didn't at first, but a little bit of common and it seems to be going together ok.
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Walts on June 28, 2004, 23:40:52 pm
Look forward to the pics gordon  8)

After making 3 different bomb stamps that produced nothing more than a yellow splodge!, trying to paint free hand, and making a single row stencil that failed on its second application i decided the only way to paint the bomb symbols was to make a stencil for the whole 99 bombs and paint them in one go, so here is the result of my nights work, all i've got to do tomorrow night at work is cut out the 99 bombs plus their fins, Oh boy it could be a late night! thats provided i dont have to actually do any real work  :D

Cheers Walts.


(http://rcmf.co.uk/old-uploads/bombstencil1.JPG)
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on June 29, 2004, 10:57:55 am
Walts...that IS a labour of love.
Quoteprovided i dont have to actually do any real work 
...sounds like when I was in the RAF!   ::)
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on June 29, 2004, 22:19:37 pm
Arel..here's the way I'm litespanning the underside.  Just allowing enough round the edges to mate with the litespan on the flat undersurface.



[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: CraigO on June 30, 2004, 00:29:10 am
Hi all

OK Gordon, what is all of this shash about feeling neglected etc etc that you have been posting up on the US site.  hm hm hm.....   :D  ;) wellwe may not be posting but, we are still listening / reading what is going on.  I am watching in envy the fabulous work that you and walts and others are doing.  you guys are taking the lanc models to a new level.  fabulous stuff.  as rich has indicated the weather here in OZ is now full on winter.  Great for building  ;D but lousy for flying  :-[.  Ah well there are always lots of plans on the board to be worked on.  I really like the cowels on the Nexus lanc and what walts has done with them is a real advance.  I am going to take a leaf out of your book and make some of the mozz nacelles the same way.
progress is slowing a bit.  I have made the basics of all of the big bits.  I am just building the nacelles on the wings, that includes the Carbon Fibre engine carriers, I am waiting on receiveing the Eurokit struts so i can build the same sort of fancy landing gear arrangements that you guys have built.  the Fuz is coming along well, i have started to shape the cockpit,  and have built the detatchable bull nose to accomodate the batteries.  starting now to look at building control columns, radios, guage panels, switches and wiring loom stuff.  yuck my big cat breakfast sauceage fingers were not meant to do fine work.     Gordon did you say you were going to wait until november to test fly the beast.  looks like we will be on a parrallel test program.  I am targetting getting the mozz in the air at about the same time  ::)

anyway keep at it guys.  you are on the home stretch!

Craig
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on June 30, 2004, 00:39:26 am
QuoteGordon did you say you were going to wait until november to test fly the beast.  looks like we will be on a parrallel test program.  I am targetting getting the mozz in the air at about the same time 
...where do u buy your wellies then Craig?  I'll put an order in for my pair soon!  ;D ;D

Remember u posted some great stuff on motor calculations a little while ago?  What do u make of my Motorcalc current being around 31.5A static and the Wattmeter showing 35A+ at 3/4 throttle on my last run (didn't do full chat runs as it was plain to me that I could fry the 35A ESC)?
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: CraigO on June 30, 2004, 01:11:49 am
yes it certainly willbe bicycle cliips on standby wont it.

it would be interesting to do a quick blip up to full power just to see if it goes up a lot more,  it could be that the ESC is a bit coarse up towards fullpower, so you may actually be seeing the full power numbers already.  what props are you running again?  the other thing is that you are on the ground and it will unload a bit in the air.  typically you will generate more heat in the ESC at part throttle settings up close to full power than at full throttle,  because the ESC is doing a lot of switching at partial throttle where as the taps are wide open and it isnt doing much switching at full chat. the last thing you would want is for it to go out on protection while you are in the air,  believe me the lanc doesnt glide.  dont ask me how i know :) and yours is heavier than mine.  I am interested in the differences certainly. 

I rechecked the Electricalc parameters that i used and with the 2.33 :1 gearboxes on graupner 6 V motors off 8 cells in parrallel with 8x6 props the calc shows 30 or so amps.  I can say that all of these calculator programs have their inaccuracies.  the more you push a power system the further away from the answer they really are, but i dont think you are a long way out,  infact you arent way out in terms of driving the motors.  My gut feel is that you are seeing full power even tho the stick isnt all the way up there.  do me a favour and try it at full power for a couple of seconds to test it.  so long as it isnt at 80 amps you wont do it a lot of harm. :)

Craig
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: swarfmaker on June 30, 2004, 08:54:05 am

  Gordon
     If you use a power ..volt... watt meter dont take the readings as absolute,as with most gear
  take it as a guide until sutch times as it is calibrated,it may be right but within 5% is a good one.
  a bloody good one infact so try the readings against some others before you take it as true.
  My AVO cost 120 pounds years ago and another 45 to have it put right.and that was only for
  work.Find out how it reads and allow for the error,the biger the reading the biger the error but
  at least you know were you'r splodging.

                                                  Barry
                             
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on June 30, 2004, 13:17:30 pm
SM...AVO...wow, last one I saw of those was in the RAF and they were vintage then, but as for quality, they were top shelf...comments noted!   ;)

QuoteI rechecked the Electricalc parameters that i used and with the 2.33 :1 gearboxes on graupner 6 V motors off 8 cells in parrallel with 8x6 props the calc shows 30 or so amps.  I can say that all of these calculator programs have their inaccuracies.  the more you push a power system the further away from the answer they really are, but i dont think you are a long way out,  infact you arent way out in terms of driving the motors.  My gut feel is that you are seeing full power even tho the stick isnt all the way up there.  do me a favour and try it at full power for a couple of seconds to test it.  so long as it isnt at 80 amps you wont do it a lot of harm


.........................................only info different in your calculation Craig was that I'm using 7x6.5 props (although Motorcalc says they'll stall and they should be 7x5 instead).  Totally agree that they'll unload in flight as the number cruncher says it'll be 23A in level flight.  I'll give it a careful max run very soon and let u know...!  ;) 

Quote
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on June 30, 2004, 13:18:52 pm
Quotebelieve me the lanc doesnt glide.  dont ask me how i know 
....I'm asking!   ;D ;D

Incidentally Craig..haven't Flair brought out a Mossie kit for around £230 sterling?  Looked rather brilliant I thought, but I'm biased as the 'wooden wonder' was an incredible looking machine.

Managed an hour on the lanc tonight, so the last engine nacelle is nearly done.   
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: CraigO on July 01, 2004, 05:46:09 am
Well,  the story goes let someone else fly the lanc and not take too much notice,  then when they give you the transmitter back, saying "gee its slowing down a bit"....  i am down wind coming in for a landing and the engines stop.  after the clacker valve slams shut, there was enough to just make it over the fence at the end of our strip.! :)

I am really pleased with the Brian Taylor Mossie it is absolutely great.  but quite a lot of building effort.  but then again that is half of the fun.  aint it :)

I havent done a thing that is actually noticable from the outside for about 2 weeks. 
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on July 01, 2004, 11:57:25 am
QuoteI am really pleased with the Brian Taylor Mossie it is absolutely great.
.....Craig is it a kit like the lanc or is scratchbuilt from a plan?
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on July 01, 2004, 23:36:33 pm
Hi Guys...started my summer holidays this afternoon, so taken with a 'walts-like' compunction to get this model progressed.  Finished litespanning the difficult areas of the underwing tonight, so just got the flat areas to do now. 

Craig, did max chat runs tonight.  Ran it to max on 2 occasions and both returned 36.8A at 286 watts.  Think that confirms that I need a bigger ESC (yes, I appreciate the amps will decrease when it unloads into the flight envelop and I take on board SMs comments regarding inaccuraciese in the Wattmeter etc), but on the take off she'll be over my 35A ESC limit.  It does give me about 40W/lb, so hardly aerobatic, but certainly flyable.  I'll fit a 50A ESC, as that margin of safety can always be used in the future for a larger model (a Halifax maybe!).   
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: CraigO on July 02, 2004, 00:21:42 am
36.8 amps wow,  that is about 9 amps per motor.  certainly dont want to pull any more than that :) or these little can motors wont be long for this world.  at least you can get to yours ;)

are you serious about being up near 7lb ?  take off will need to fly it gently :)

the you can buy a laser cut parts pack / short kit for the BT mozzies there are 2 a 71 inch fighter and an 81 inch bomber / PR version.  cos i am building at about 64 inches i chose to reduce the 71 down a bit so its all a scratch build :)  lots of fun.   just starting to work on some of the cockpit bits.  radios, column, guages, then throttles etc.

cheers
Craig
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on July 02, 2004, 00:30:29 am
Quoteare you serious about being up near 7lb ?
.........very serious!   ;) ...she's slightly below 7lbs  ;)  BD is flying his around 6.5lbs, so should be ok.

Arel, here's a pic of the litespanning technique I've used. 

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: CraigO on July 02, 2004, 00:54:33 am
looks great bud.  not far to go now and it will be sitting on the table watching you work on the spitfire!
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Arel on July 02, 2004, 08:09:00 am
Craig,

You let someone else fly the Lanc??? I'm not even going to let anyone else fly their own planes while mines in the air ;)


Gordon,

Looking good mate. I take it that now you just cut pieces to fill in the gaps between the nacelles and et voila :D

I've flown the O-2 for a couple of short flights-there's a vid in the Ezone thread, so I'm back into the Lanc full time. Having fun with the UC struts and wheel hubs. Might try and get a turret finished this weekend. We're having our club AGM on Sunday...with a bring and buy....I bet I come home with more planes than I leave with :D

Chhers,

Rich
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on July 02, 2004, 22:34:20 pm
QuoteI take it that now you just cut pieces to fill in the gaps between the nacelles and et voila
...exaclament!  Plodding along tonight and halve just under half of the underside done.  Did a 'Walts' tonight and tore off the litespan between the wing tip and mid-engine 'cos it was just rubbish! Second effort looks a lot better, but in my opinion Arel, if u do a large area with this stuff I found it's easier to decide where it can be put on in 2 pieces rather than one large piece.

True about the Spitfire Craig........SWMBO not impressed with more room in the garage taken up with 'those things'..... ;D
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Walts on July 03, 2004, 17:15:04 pm
Hi all, I went to Wings & Wheels at North Weald last week, and whilst browsing the stalls i noticed some permax speed 400's the same as what Gordon and myself are using on our Lanc's.  As they were only £3.95 each i couldn't pass up, so i brought a couple for future projects (hmmm a littel mosse  :) ) anyway i noticed they came with little capacitors that are meant to be soldered to the +/- terminals.  Now the 4 i brought for the Lanc did not come with capacitors, Are they essential or can i get away without them, Gordon, anyone?

Nice to see you are progressing Gordon, i think I've reached that stage where the smallest job takes forever, the end seems so close yet so far away.

Cheers all. Walts.
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Walts on July 03, 2004, 19:13:00 pm
It has taken me a week just to get my 'nose art' right, i thought i would post a pic before adding panel lines just in case i cock it up and have to start again!  :-[

The camera can't focus well enough to show the bottom line which reads Herman Goering.  Anyway just the fuzz to panel line and weather then i can move on to the final assembly and cockpit detail.  There is light at the end of the tunnel, can you see it Gordon, its just a dim flicker but it is there  ;D ;D ;D



(http://rcmf.co.uk/old-uploads/noseart2.JPG)
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: chrysagon on July 03, 2004, 21:19:12 pm
Quote from: Walts on July 03, 2004, 17:15:04 pm
Hi all, I went to Wings & Wheels at North Weald last week, and whilst browsing the stalls i noticed some permax speed 400's the same as what Gordon and myself are using on our Lanc's.  As they were only £3.95 each i couldn't pass up, so i brought a couple for future projects (hmmm a littel mosse  :) ) anyway i noticed they came with little capacitors that are meant to be soldered to the +/- terminals.  Now the 4 i brought for the Lanc did not come with capacitors, Are they essential or can i get away without them, Gordon, anyone?

Nice to see you are progressing Gordon, i think I've reached that stage where the smallest job takes forever, the end seems so close yet so far away.

Cheers all. Walts.



Walts
These little capacitors are for motor suppression. Normally they would be a must to prevent RF interference, generated by the motors, interfering with the radio gear and causing glitching. However, whether you need them or not depends on a number of things e.g distances between motors and speed controller/antenna.
To be on the safe side I always fit them no matter what and I have never had glitching problems, but I may have just been lucky so far. 

cheers
Chas :)
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on July 04, 2004, 00:15:28 am
Walts...awesome work.....did a 'Walts-like' day today and finished the underside and 90% completed the upper port wing with litespan.   ;)  That artwork is just the dogs dangly bits Walts..u must have some patience to do that.  To think they had a 'best of the best' bit in RCM&E last month and your lanc wasn't in it!  The photo in the mag looked decidedly second rate to me, but hey, we're only mere mortals enjoying an excellent hobby (or it should be if I wasn't spending so much time on this model)  ;D  Here's my effort earlier this afternoon with the templates cut and ready to iron on.

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Arel on July 04, 2004, 05:44:38 am
Walts,

Beautiful work mate, can't wait to see it all together. As for the capacitors Chas is correct and I would recomend that you take no chances with the Lanc. Some motors (eg Graupner) come with capacitors fitted internally, and you can see a wire coming out of the case to each terminal in which case you might be ok. Otherwise if you can't see any internal capacitors I REALLY WOULD RECOMEND fitting them. You can fit them across the terminals or fit one from + to the case and one from- to the case (twist their free ends together and solder to the case-it helps to file a section of the case first to get a good join.). If you're not sure whether they're necessary...GWS fit them on all of their motors...and GWS doesn't waste money on non essentials ;) :D

Gordon,

You're making a fiddly job look simple :)

Rich
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Walts on July 04, 2004, 09:14:22 am
Thanks all for the compliments, I am getting quite excited about finishing this model myself now.

Chas + Arel thanks very much for the info on capacitors, if i hadn't brought those motors i wouldn't even of queried it, just shows my complete ignorance in electric modelling  :-[ I'll pick up 4 for the Lanc when i can source them.

Gordon your making a terrific job of the lite-span, not a job for the faint heart'd, keep at it mate  ;)

Cheers Walts.

Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: a.mclellan on July 04, 2004, 21:59:32 pm
Hi can any body help me , I have built a lancaster but can't get it to fly . Its the tony nijhuis small one with a wingspan of 71" it weighs between 8.5 to 9 lbs it has four graupner speed 400 7.2v geared 2,33:1 with a 10x7 prop, the motors are run by two 3000NImh batteries wired in parallel to two motors with 50amp speed controlers. Its runs well on concrete but will not run on are grass field.I have had two motors burn out just bench running them and have been told not to bench run them, expensive way to learn. I have tried using motocalc for infomation but it can't solve the problem.I had been advised by my local model shop to use this setup but I think they have got it wrong.I have thought about removing the gear box but Before I throw any more money at it can any one tell me what combination will work or what I should change. :'(

                                               Andy
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Walts on July 04, 2004, 22:21:11 pm
Quote from: a.mclellan on July 04, 2004, 21:59:32 pm
Hi can any body help me , I have built a lancaster but can't get it to fly . It the tony nijhuis small one with a wingspan of 71" it weighs between 8.5 to 9 lbs it has four graupner speed 400 7.2v geared 2,33:1 with a 10x7 prop, the motors are run by two 3000NImh batteries wired in parallel to two morors with 50amp speed controlers. Its runs well on concrete but will not run on are grass field.I have had two motors burn out just bench running them and have been told not to bench run them, exspensive way to learn. I have tried using motocalc for infomation but it can't solve the problem.I had been advised by my local model shop to use this setup but I think they have got it wrong.I have thought about removing the gear box but Before I throw any more money at it can any one tell me what combination will work or what I should change. :'(



Hi, As you can probaly see from my previous post i am a complete novice to electric myself, having only built ic models before.

It seems to me though that for some reason your model is seriously over weight well over the 5 1/2 lb original design by TonyN.  This would seem to be the main reason for your model failing to get air between the wheels.  I am using an 8 cell 3000mah pack driving all 4 6v multiplex motors as suggested on the plan, with a single 50amp speed controller i am hoping this will work as i havnt deviated too much from the original design, but i am expecting my model to come in around 7lbs similar to Gordons. 

I think you will have to wait for Arel or Craigo etc etc.. to chip in with some technical advise  :)

Sorry Walts.

Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: a.mclellan on July 04, 2004, 22:28:39 pm
Quote from: Walts on July 04, 2004, 22:21:11 pm
Quote from: a.mclellan on July 04, 2004, 21:59:32 pm
Hi can any body help me , I have built a lancaster but can't get it to fly . It the tony nijhuis small one with a wingspan of 71" it weighs between 8.5 to 9 lbs it has four graupner speed 400 7.2v geared 2,33:1 with a 10x7 prop, the motors are run by two 3000NImh batteries wired in parallel to two morors with 50amp speed controlers. Its runs well on concrete but will not run on are grass field.I have had two motors burn out just bench running them and have been told not to bench run them, exspensive way to learn. I have tried using motocalc for infomation but it can't solve the problem.I had been advised by my local model shop to use this setup but I think they have got it wrong.I have thought about removing the gear box but Before I throw any more money at it can any one tell me what combination will work or what I should change. :'(



Hi, As you can probaly see from my previous post i am a complete novice to electric myself, having only built ic models before.

It seems to me though that for some reason your model is seriously over weight well over the 5 1/2 lb original design by TonyN.  This would seem to be the main reason for your model failing to get air between the wheels.  I am using an 8 cell 3000mah pack driving all 4 6v multiplex motors as suggested on the plan, with a single 50amp speed controller i am hoping this will work as i havnt deviated too much from the original design, but i am expecting my model to come in around 7lbs similar to Gordons. 

I think you will have to wait for Arel or Craigo etc etc.. to chip in with some technical advise  :)

Sorry Walts.


[Thanks Walts yes for some reason it does seem to be over weight but I dont no why. this is my first build had I have hadded weight some were with out knowing it /quote]
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on July 05, 2004, 00:34:59 am
Hi Guys and hello Andy...nice to see u on the thread.  As for your lanc, its configuration seems too complicated as it appears to have duplication par excellance Andy .  I say this as I've re-wired my lanc to parallel like yours after having a 14.4V series/parallel setup that was just too heavy (around 790g).  However, unlike these other series/parallel lancs, my model runs (or will soon) on a 50A ESC and one 3300MAh pack (460g).  This setup was talked about by Craig, your name-sake from Jersey (aka Balsadust) and Arel and might be worth u going back to read earlier comments.  However, what does strike me is the size of your props.  10x7 seems very large, as Motorcalc recommends my setup to be 7x5.  What I will do is run Motorcalc using your information and see what it says.  Hope to let u know tomorrow.  ;)

On my progress, I've finished the litespan now and really must assemble it all to get a pic.......I know it's childish and infantile and immature and not worthy of my standing in the community, but Walts has been stealing the show!   ;D ;D ;D ;D   
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Arel on July 05, 2004, 09:43:50 am
Andy,

I thought Gordon's Lanc was heavy but 8 1/2 to 9 pounds is crazy...what did you cover it with? ...concrete?

For a start, How many cells in each pack?

The props are too big...assuming your packs aren't only six cells each...but that combination wont work anyway.

If you want to stick to the 7.2v/2.33:1 combo...8x6 props on one ten cell pack (all four motors in parallel) works well

I wrote a really long post about power systems on page 15 of the Leccy Lanc VIIII thread if you're interested..

Rich

Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: a.mclellan on July 05, 2004, 10:14:39 am
Thanks for your help and advice, I can't believe my self how heavy the model has work out, it is only covered with tissue paper and hand painted. The batteries are two 3000 8 cells so I will buy some extra cells and try as you have suggested with one 10 cell pack and all four motors in parallel and change the props.

                  Many thanks
                  Andy :)
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: a.mclellan on July 05, 2004, 12:43:56 pm
Quote from: Gordon on July 05, 2004, 00:34:59 am
Hi Guys and hello Andy...nice to see u on the thread.  As for your lanc, its configuration seems too complicated as it appears to have duplication par excellance Andy .  I say this as I've re-wired my lanc to parallel like yours after having a 14.4V series/parallel setup that was just too heavy (around 790g).  However, unlike these other series/parallel lancs, my model runs (or will soon) on a 50A ESC and one 3300MAh pack (460g).  This setup was talked about by Craig, your name-sake from Jersey (aka Balsadust) and Arel and might be worth u going back to read earlier comments.  However, what does strike me is the size of your props.  10x7 seems very large, as Motorcalc recommends my setup to be 7x5.  What I will do is run Motorcalc using your information and see what it says.  Hope to let u know tomorrow.  ;)

On my progress, I've finished the litespan now and really must assemble it all to get a pic.......I know it's childish and infantile and immature and not worthy of my standing in the community, but Walts has been stealing the show!   ;D ;D ;D ;D   
[Thank for your help and interest I look forward to reading the results. I have tried the free 30 day motorcalc and I am sure if it could say bin it it would have.
Andy /quote]
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: swarfmaker on July 05, 2004, 14:53:13 pm

  HI   ANDY
   Just ran your 9lbs through Motocalc ,looks like 10 cells on 7*6 props combined with REALLY
  GOOD PRAYING might do the trick.Like i said to Gordon if 400's dont work go to 480's and
make it a 4 engined fighter,so who cares if it's faster than scale.[most of them are anyway].
                                      go for it and enjoythe flying.

                                               Barry

    PS Dont worry about flying worry about landing.
                                             
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: a.mclellan on July 05, 2004, 15:10:58 pm
Thanks Barry, Great stuff I will get the cells and props on order and report in next week with the result, If I up the motors I might be able to fit my grandslam bomb but thats another story for next week .

Andy

PS a very big thanks to all of you and happy landings ::)
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: BalsaDust on July 05, 2004, 18:06:49 pm
Hi guys,
not been around for a while, but just look at the progress that you guys have made !

That Lanc of yours Walts looks the absolute dogs !

What method did you use to get the nose art done ?
I haven't added all the finishing detail to mine as yet, but looks as though I'll have to now !

regards
BalsaDust
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on July 05, 2004, 18:17:25 pm
QuoteI thought Gordon's Lanc was heavy but 8 1/2 to 9 pounds is crazy...what did you cover it with? ...concrete?
....Andy, this is a-typical Oz subtlety.   ::)  Nice to see a new guy on the thread get lacerated by snapper-Arel  ;D.  SM, did my sums for Andy's lanc and your calcs only vary by the prop size..mine said 7x5 for maximum duration.  If Andy is burning out motors there's too many wiggly amps flowing through them, so buy bigger motors as SM said, downsize your packs or merge your packs into one, like I've done.

And Andy....spend the best £25 u can spend in this hobby...buy Motorcalc  ;)

Here's the first of a few shots I did between the down pours today.

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: a.mclellan on July 05, 2004, 20:27:52 pm
Hi chaps , just to check that I haven,t mislead you 9lbs included the batteries
wing 4lb 13 oz
fuselage 1lb 15 oz total 6lb 12oz
batteries 2lb 3oz
bomb  4oz if used

Will try all four motors on one speedcontroler with 7x6 props and one 3000 ten cell battery.
I think thats right
thanks again
regards Andy
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Walts on July 05, 2004, 21:14:53 pm
Hi Balsa Dust, nice to hear from you again  :)  With my markings i ended up painting them all on using different methods.

The fuzz codes and small No.s i made by buying some re-positionable A4 label paper, finding a suitable font on the p.c and printing them straight onto the label paper, i then cut the inside of the letters out and stuck the outside part on the model as paint masks,. they leave very good edges. 
The bombs were done the same way (very tedious work) As was the 4 medal bars (done as one stencil).  The large quote was done with a 5mm plastic stencil painted on one letter at a time with a fine tip white paint pen, which wouldnt fit into a 3.5mm stencil so the "Herman Goering" was done with the lable paper, typed on the p.c printed on the paper then carefully cut out and painted over on the model. Phew well you did ask  :D

Nothing done today as i've been at work :( darn it these occasional work days do seem to get in the way  ::) ;D

Cheers Walts.
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Walts on July 05, 2004, 21:19:30 pm
Gordon, great going mate  8) see what you can acheive when you dont have to worry about silly little things like going to work :D
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: a.mclellan on July 05, 2004, 21:46:28 pm
Quote from: Gordon on July 05, 2004, 18:17:25 pm
QuoteI thought Gordon's Lanc was heavy but 8 1/2 to 9 pounds is crazy...what did you cover it with? ...concrete?
....Andy, this is a-typical Oz subtlety.   ::)  Nice to see a new guy on the thread get lacerated by snapper-Arel  ;D.  SM, did my sums for Andy's lanc and your calcs only vary by the prop size..mine said 7x5 for maximum duration.  If Andy is burning out motors there's too many wiggly amps flowing through them, so buy bigger motors as SM said, downsize your packs or merge your packs into one, like I've done.

And Andy....spend the best £25 u can spend in this hobby...buy Motorcalc  ;)

Here's the first of a few shots I did between the down pours today.
[hay Gordon nice job, its a good job I didn't do detail like that or we would be talking 11 to 12 lbs in weight  ;D/quote]
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on July 05, 2004, 22:34:57 pm
Walts....yup work IS a pain and no mistake, but so is this aweful weather...holidays?  Better off back teaching while it's raining!

Quotehay Gordon nice job, its a good job I didn't do detail like that or we would be talking 11 to 12 lbs in weight  /quote
....yup Andy and mine would be about 4lbs lighter too  :D  What u said about a single pack, controller etc sounds good, so I think u should get some air under those wheels with that.  The guys told me to look for about 40W/lb to get her into the air with some power to spare, so I plugged a Wattmeter into the circuit and got 287Watts at about 36.8A (ish), which at a fraction under 7lbs is just nudging over 40W/lb.  Phew!  ;)  Remember that that's to get her off the ground.  When I used your calculations I found I needed 87% throttle during level flight (ie: your twin parallel megga heavy layout here) and I'd get about 7.5minutes of level flight, but it did say it was a sod to fly!  ;D  So any diet u put your model on is bound to help.  Just let us know what your final weight, pack etc is and I'm sure 1 or 3 of us will do the calculations for u.   ;)
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Arel on July 06, 2004, 08:06:23 am
Quote from: a.mclellan on July 05, 2004, 10:14:39 am
Thanks for your help and advice, I can't believe my self how heavy the model has work out, it is only covered with tissue paper and hand painted. The batteries are two 3000 8 cells so I will buy some extra cells and try as you have suggested with one 10 cell pack and all four motors in parallel and change the props.

                  Many thanks
                  Andy :)


Andy,

The set up I recommended works well on a B 24 Liberator at 2.5m span and 6lb, so is only needed for takeoff then it tools around at half or less throttle. YMMV as you are going to be carrying more weight on a smaller wing area. 7x6 props are probably right for your Lanc.

If it weighed a biiiiiit less I would recommend trying it first on one pack of eight cells with maybe 9x5 (or6) props...The problem you may have now is unmatched batteries. Have you used the 8 cell packs much? If so you might need to get two more cells (of the same make and specs) and charge/discharge them a few times to try and get them the same as the older ones...

If that doesn't make any sense, batteries usually improve with some use...then get worse after lots of use. So if you add two cells that aren't matched to the other eight, you might get odd results when charging or flying with them, like false peaks, or early cut offs..

So if you're adding two cells...try and either add two discharged cells to the other eight dicharged cells or add two charged cells to eight charged cells. If you have some spare connectors, you can add the cells without dismantling/soldering the original pack.

According to my calculations, you will save about 13oz just by getting rid of six cells...which is a good start :D Then leave out the Grandslam untill you have your 25 missions and volunteer for "Special Duties"

Rich

P.S. No offence meant when I replied to your first post ;) :)
P.P.S. YMMV=Your mileage may vary :D
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: CraigO on July 06, 2004, 08:19:16 am
Andy

look too at toms of the easy things.  ie wheels can you get the the great planes light 3 inch wheels.  every ounce lost is going to help.  have you had to add balast to the nose to balance the old girl.  if so look to see if you can get the batteries further forward. 

certainly a 7.2V motor off 10 cells is OK  the amp draw limit for these little fellas is about 10amps each.  make sure whenyou connect the 2 motor circuits that all are i parallel.

if it comes to it perhaps you may need to go down to a 10 cell CP1700 ppack that will save at least another 6 oz over the GP 3300 or 3000 packs. 

good luck and kepp us posted!



Craig. 
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: a.mclellan on July 06, 2004, 12:42:26 pm
goday rich, no offence taken old chap, I have contacted readycrete for sponsorship. They said they would only sponsor it if it flew a conplete blue circle.

regards
Andy ;D
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: a.mclellan on July 06, 2004, 12:58:05 pm
Craig, I was at the wings and wheels the other week and saw a stand selling light weight wheels and nearly bought some. I am having trouble finding 3000 single cells as are old mate al's has not got any. The batteries are new I got them from him at the W &W . I am going next week to the BMFA top gun at Rougham as it is just a half hour away from me and will look to see what bargins I can get.
Wheels, Piano wire for undercarriage,props,batteries the list is endless but the cash is not.never mind the old girl has got to fly, if not I will mark her up as just Jane and taxie her around.I haven't added ant weight to balance her the C of G is right with the two bat packs in the noise.
Take care regards
Andy :)
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Arel on July 06, 2004, 13:47:15 pm
Quote from: a.mclellan on July 06, 2004, 12:42:26 pm
goday rich, no offence taken old chap, I have contacted readycrete for sponsorship. They said they would only sponsor it if it flew a conplete blue circle.

regards
Andy ;D


Andy,

;) :D :D ;D ;D

My dad used to work for a concrete company called "Blue Circle Southern"...Maybe they could provide nose ballast ;D

If you can't get a couple of extra cells, and have to buy a completely new pack...I can also recommend the 1950 FAUP NiMh cells. If your charger can handle NiMh cells, they are a good option as they can handle 35A currents and ten cells only weigh ~ 15oz and they are heaps smaller than those tubby Nicads.

Rich
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Arel on July 06, 2004, 13:59:58 pm
Gordon,

Lovely work mate.

It looks like your boys are just about ready to move on from their HCU to an operations squadron.

Rich
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on July 06, 2004, 15:10:51 pm
QuoteIt looks like your boys are just about ready to move on from their HCU to an operations squadron.
....yup, operational flying is only (in my case) 4 months away...wellies pleeeze!  ;D

Busy putting litespan down onto a sheet of liteply to practice sanding and spraying....Arel u mentioned using a mask; is this a slot of some sort to cut down on spray drift?
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: a.mclellan on July 06, 2004, 15:11:45 pm
Quote from: Arel on July 06, 2004, 13:47:15 pm
Quote from: a.mclellan on July 06, 2004, 12:42:26 pm
goday rich, no offence taken old chap, I have contacted readycrete for sponsorship. They said they would only sponsor it if it flew a conplete blue circle.

regards
Andy ;D


Andy,

;) :D :D ;D ;D

My dad used to work for a concrete company called "Blue Circle Southern"...Maybe they could provide nose ballast ;D

If you can't get a couple of extra cells, and have to buy a completely new pack...I can also recommend the 1950 FAUP NiMh cells. If your charger can handle NiMh cells, they are a good option as they can handle 35A currents and ten cells only weigh ~ 15oz and they are heaps smaller than those tubby Nicads.

Rich
[good one rich but I will have to remove the brick . what flying time are we looking at using 1950 or 1700
Andy/quote]
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Walts on July 06, 2004, 21:18:32 pm
Gordon, if i might be so rude as to but in, re the spraying.  I know i oversprayed my model, but there is an intersting thread on construction central you might want to read all about spraying camo.  Also i found a link to a construction of a 1/12 scale Lanc being made for .52fs ic's but it has some lovely working flaps fitted, might be worth a look (on construction thread).

Cheers Walts.
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on July 06, 2004, 22:30:49 pm
Walts...thanks for the info and I'll have a gander.  Spent an hour litespanning my liteply, so my practice area is ready! 
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Arel on July 07, 2004, 07:36:29 am
Gordon,

If you use no masking, you get overspray...if you use tape, you get hard edges. BUT...if you make masks, from say card, and sit them up a bit from the surface, maybe 5mm (1/4"), when you spray you should get soft edges between your colours. I think I mentioned using Blu Tack, but that might leave an oily residue that paint wont stick to.

The process is to start with the lighter colour, sprayed freehand and going outside the area you need to cover. Then you put your mask over the light colour and spay the darker colour.

Rich

P.S. The masks are just card, cut out in a wavy shape, that approximates the camoflage outlines. A shoebox or similar would make half a dozen or more different masks.
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Arel on July 07, 2004, 07:48:01 am
Andy,

I'm not sure what the duration of your 3000s are, but...Say your 3000s give you 6 minute flights, then 1950s will give you just under 4 minutes, and 1700s will give you about 3 minutes and 20 seconds.

Not very long flights...but the plane will be a bit nicer to fly, because of the lower weight...So you may find that you fly it more :)

Rich

P.S. When you hit "quote" to reply to someones post, If you start your reply after or below the {/quote} at the bottom of the other post, your post will have the previous post highlighted in purple, while your reply will be easier to read.  :)
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: a.mclellan on July 07, 2004, 10:20:59 am
Quote from: Arel on July 07, 2004, 07:48:01 am
Andy,

I'm not sure what the duration of your 3000s are, but...Say your 3000s give you 6 minute flights, then 1950s will give you just under 4 minutes, and 1700s will give you about 3 minutes and 20 seconds.

Not very long flights...but the plane will be a bit nicer to fly, because of the lower weight...So you may find that you fly it more :)

Rich

P.S. When you hit "quote" to reply to someones post, If you start your reply after or below the {/quote} at the bottom of the other post, your post will have the previous post highlighted in purple, while your reply will be easier to read.  :)

how's that ;D
Thanks for the advice I am new to all of this so please bare with me. its the first time I have ever used the computer to chat with any one its nice to have so many friends who are willing to help its like a new world , I am having trouble keeping up with and getting to know you all so please just let me know if I missing something or slipping up thats what friends are for  :D
regards
Andy
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on July 07, 2004, 11:34:25 am
Arel....thanks for the gen, I'll try that today  ;)  I was reading the thread that Walts put me onto and the census was to spray the lighter coat first (ie: light earth in our case).  Wot u think?  Sounds logical to me....but that's just me  ;D

Craig...was reading through your Motorcalc stuff u did for me in March 04.  Apart from the wrong prop sizes (u thought I had 9x6 props when they were 7x6.5), u were only 4.5 ounces off the estimated weight and the current was 3A adrift of the static run (taking SMs comments on board re tolerances) it wasn't bad at all  ;)
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on July 07, 2004, 14:23:41 pm
Got some of my spray templates done this afternoon, but priority was saying 'hello' to that big yellow orb in the sky...gosh it's sunshine at long last!  ;)

PS....got all of the templates finished this morning!  SWMBO had an excellent idea to hold the templates off the surface Arel.  I'm using low-adhesion drafting tape and she said just make a round section of tape with the sticky side facing out, then place it between the surface and the template!  Sounds a really good idea and gets over the worry u had about bluetack leaving behing an oily residue!  I'll try it out tomorrow when I spray the practice area I've set up.  Here's a pic:





[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: CraigO on July 08, 2004, 02:47:59 am
Hi gordon

before you spray anything cover the black bits!  there is always some overspray and you dont want to mess up the lovely black bits with snotty brown or green. :)

I used newspaper, hand held wen i did mine.  the trick there is to make sure that you dont shudder and push the paper into the wet paint,  but if you do it in a number of light coats it works really well.  just remember keep it down to mist coats!  you dont want to add any additional weight!

I cant believe that the number i put up were so close.  ( thinks,  "gee perhaps i shouldnt say that,  credibility slipping fast :)")

I cant wait to see the over the moon post from you whan this bird of yours gets off the ground!!  Aparently waders are an appropriate accessory for this operation, and be thoughtfully and fashionably trimmed as appropriate as the number of flights increases :)

Craig

Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on July 08, 2004, 10:42:59 am
QuoteAparently waders are an appropriate accessory for this operation, and be thoughtfully and fashionably trimmed as appropriate as the number of flights increases
.........with the amount of rain we've had here in the past month Craig, u are SO right!   ;D ;D
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on July 08, 2004, 23:22:36 pm
Wot a day!  Now I know how Walts felt when his finishing didn't behave.  I started spraying the fuselage at around 2pm and it's 2315 and I'm now finished.  Everything just about went wrong, apart from my little Badger airbrush which behaved magnifiicently.  I just wasn't happy with the quality of the lirespan at the rear of the fuselage after spraying the light earth paint.  So carefully cutting out the offending bit, I inserted a better, crease-free bit.  The fuselage fell of the workbench somewhere during the afternoon and having split the front it was re-glued, re-heat the litespan and no major problems left to haunt me. 

Got a call from Paul Boyle at Precision Markings tonight.  Had a question on whether I needed the first of a 2-part decal solution.  No, was the answer, so I'll be using Microsol once the bomber is ready for her decals.  £2.76 inc P&P from Paul if u want the decals to really soak into the surface.

Now, a question.  Eons ago BD mentioned that he'd sprayed 'something' over his matt finish...what was that 'something'?  Was it laquor, matt varnish?  I just don't know, but he got a really realistic slightly darker tone from the camo paint and it looked the business.  Anyone help? 
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: BalsaDust on July 09, 2004, 07:50:03 am
Hi Gordon,
I think we've all had days like that .... If it can go wrong then it definately will - just when you least expect it !
I've driven off to the slope for a spot of soaring before now and left the Tx at home ! Of course, as you'd expect, I got lots of sympathy and support from fellow fliers ..... ::)

I brush painted the camo on my model - that was the day my airbrush just refused to work ...... I'd used silver solarfilm for the upper surfaces, and have scratched off paint here and there for a weathering effect.
I also used spray on lacquer (Radio Spares #569-307) over the matt finish, which as you say does darken and bring out the colours really well. It also stops greasy finger marks from spoiling the paint job ......

(http://www.foxesonline.info/lancaster/finished2.jpg)  (http://www.foxesonline.info/lancaster/300903.jpg)

Keep up the good work,

regards
BalsaDust
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Arel on July 09, 2004, 09:33:42 am
Gordon,

Looking good mate...Isn't it funny how those invisible creases appear when you put a bit of paint on? :D

Rich
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on July 09, 2004, 09:52:44 am
Thanks for that BD.  Where did u get the radio spares stuff from (and do they do mail order?)?   ;D  Arel....yup, those creases are a pain!  Hope to do the tail assembly today..! 
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: BalsaDust on July 09, 2004, 10:21:38 am
Hi Gordon,
There's a company over here that act as agents for RS, so I just give 'em a bell and they get it for me by the next day ....

Have a look at www.rswww.com, they certainly seem to do online ordering etc or you may find an agent near you ..... maybe

regards
BalsaDust
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Walts on July 09, 2004, 19:43:41 pm
Hello Chaps.

Not done diddly to the Lanc this week, had a couple of really busy nights at work left feeling totally sapped.  I'll pick it up again this week before i fall into one of those long lack of interest periods!!

BD nice to see the lanc showing some markings (are they decal or paint?) They really set her off.  8)

Gordon, yes those days really knock the stuffing out of you dont they, just got to force yourself though them otherwise you enter the L.L.O.I.P.

Anyway you mentioned a lacquer spray, dont know if its smililar to the stuff BD has used but i intend to spray my Lanc with flair spectrum satin fuel proofer once all markings are done.  It may be called satin but beleive me this stuff is mattier then my dogs coat!! It gives a completely flat finish to what ever it touches.  I've used it lots before and if i didnt have the matt paint for a certain part of the model i just used gloss, knowing with 100% confidence that it would end up dead flat once the flair stuff touches it.  Also any uneveness in your paint dont worry, it will all look the same under this stuff, and although WE are building electric just think of the protection it will give from those greasy prying sausages over the feild.

Anyway off to check my email see if 'flair' has offered me a job yet!  :D

Ta Ta Walts.
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: a.mclellan on July 09, 2004, 22:34:00 pm
HI HO HI HO its off flying we go with are ten cell pack and are silly little props HI ho HI ho HI HO.  :D
Hope it don't end in tears :'(
Well I have modified the old girl she now weighs 7lb 13 oz and I have still to change the wheels and replace two full servos with mini ones which all being well will hapen next week. All four motors are linked together and fitted with apc 7X5e props, have made up two packs of ten cell 2000 . It don't half look silly going from 9x6 prop tp a 7x5 but your the experts so all being well we should see some light under thoughs wheeles on Sunday weather permitting. ;)

Sorry to read about your covering Gordon but it sounds as if you have got it under control and I am sure you have found just how great it looks all marked up and it makes all the sweat and swearing worth it. When I look at your's and BalsaDusts ( Great job by the way Mr BalsaDust) I think why didn't I think to do that. But as I have said its the first time I have built and there is a lot to learn.

Barry thanks for the advice with the silly little props,they may look silly but by god they dont half sing.

will let you all know how thinks go. happy flying to all of you that includes you as well walts ;)

regards
Andy

ps whats happened to richard I have not had any reply about replacing the brick yet ;D
if your their mate happy flying includes you as well.
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on July 09, 2004, 23:16:45 pm
QuoteBut as I have said its the first time I have built and there is a lot to learn.
......hey Andy, u are not alone  ;)  This is my first build in 20+ years, so do I qualify?  Good to hear the lanc is on the Atkins diet  ; :)

Ran out of thinners, so the tail assembly has still got to be sprayed on the underside, but, as BD mentioned, u have to watch the finger marks or that matt black shows up EVERYTHING!  BD and Walts...thanks for the info re the proofer etc.  Called a company about the stuff u mentioned BD and it was £2.92 for the stuff and £11 postage!  I'll try closer to home....thought about car lacquer, but might be a tage too heavy to spray?


PS...found a model shop in Inverurie.....only 80 minutes by car, so it's nearly 'local'.....it's got a website under construction...good AND it has that flair spectrum satin proofer u mentioned Walts...VERY good!  Off to Aberdeen on Tuesday SO....2 model shops to visit that day, so not all dull SWMBO shopping  ;)
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: a.mclellan on July 10, 2004, 16:03:29 pm
Help :'( disaster looms, I have found that there is a glitch in the system all the servos go mad and work by themselves as soon as I work any servo. I have the tran ariel fully up and sitting right by the old girl.I read some were about covering the rec with tin foil but didn't think it was a good ider.
I would be greatfull if any one could help before Sunday if not we will have to scrub the op.

Regards
Andy
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on July 10, 2004, 17:00:11 pm
Andy....my tuppence worth would be:  think logically!  What have u done recently that might have caused this?  Assuming that your servos were AOK in the first place, have u re-routed your aerial, or re-wired something?  If there is a dry connection anywhere it can generate minute RF and your aerial will pick this up.  Does this happen before the motors run or during?  Are your Tx and Rx batteries fully charged?  Hope u are not using a Rx battery...due to the extra weight?  ;)  Hope this helps for starters.....Ok guys your turn! 

Ok, on a different theme I was in my local toy shop and noticed Tamiya thinners for £4.50 for 250ml......that's £18 a litre!  So taking that to the gallon (near enough 5 litres), that would be £90 for 5 litres......I bought 5 litres of Tetrosyl thinners for £5.05 in Partco.........just get the teensey weensey feeling that us modellers are paying through the nose for so called 'modellers' products?  As for fuel proofer, I wonder if well diluted car laquer would do the trick?  Off to experiment  ;)     
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: a.mclellan on July 10, 2004, 21:27:08 pm
Quote from: Gordon on July 10, 2004, 17:00:11 pm
Andy....my tuppence worth would be:  think logically!  What have u done recently that might have caused this?  Assuming that your servos were AOK in the first place, have u re-routed your aerial, or re-wired something?  If there is a dry connection anywhere it can generate minute RF and your aerial will pick this up.  Does this happen before the motors run or during?  Are your Tx and Rx batteries fully charged?  Hope u are not using a Rx battery...due to the extra weight?  ;)  Hope this helps for starters.....Ok guys your turn! 

Ok, on a different theme I was in my local toy shop and noticed Tamiya thinners for £4.50 for 250ml......that's £18 a litre!  So taking that to the gallon (near enough 5 litres), that would be £90 for 5 litres......I bought 5 litres of Tetrosyl thinners for £5.05 in Partco.........just get the teensey weensey feeling that us modellers are paying through the nose for so called 'modellers' products?  As for fuel proofer, I wonder if well diluted car laquer would do the trick?  Off to experiment  ;)     


Thank Goron, I have been trying to see why, it only starts when I use the ailerons and this has dun this before but never as bad as it is now. I had it sitting in the back garden and the props were running up and down by them selves and the rudder and ailerons were giving it some, I thought the two pilots were possesed and were going to fly by them selves. Will look at this again tomorrow and see if I can find anything. :-\

regards
Andy
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Arel on July 11, 2004, 02:57:04 am
Andy,

How close is the RX tyo the ESC?. Does the aerial run next to the power wires?. Is the ESC rated for 10 cells (if you're using BEC). Do the aileron wires run next to the motor wires?. Have you twisted the motor wires?(this is a good thing to do). Can you meter the aerial for continuity (ie no breaks)? Does it do it with the motors off?

Rich

Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: swarfmaker on July 11, 2004, 09:32:41 am

  HI ANDY
  Try lengthening the aileron leads, They could be a tuned length and radeate the didgee signal
  they work on.You might also wrap the rx in foil and eath it to the neg lead.
  Those silly little props aint silly those you had were 3 big [not 2] happy flying mush enjoy.
  Oh and watch out for those joey turds they stop a plane quicker than reverse thrust.

                                               Barry
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on July 11, 2004, 22:06:19 pm
Well Andy that should give u lots of food for thought? Hope u sused the problem for your flight today?  I've been spending the past 2 days with SWMBO doing a massive 'summer' clear out, so nothing done on the lanc front.  Had a long length of carpet offcut laid out on the garden grass tonight and it would be excellent for a short taxi run, or, if I was BD and could fly like him it would be ideal for an airstrip  ;D   
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: a.mclellan on July 11, 2004, 23:11:59 pm
Thanks guy's your a great bunch to know, sadly there has still been no light under the wheels I have tried all of your suggestions apart from shorting the ailerone wires which I will do at the weekend.I have found one thing tonight, I fitted the standard rec battery and removed the red wire from the speedcontroller and it seemed to stop the problem so I will try that outside tomorrow and see what happens. by the way the rec is in the back of the wing and the speedcontroller is at the front of the wing.
now I will tell you what happened today, took it to the field, the grass was wet and still a bit long the old girl ran and moved but would still not get up to speed then the glitch started and the motors stopped , We felt that there was more pull last week with the larger props so we decided to change the props and just run it over the grass again ( sorry barry) it moved much qwicker but the glitting started again before we could try a run. Going to top gun next sat so will buy some servo leads and if nes some new motors (don;t tell the wife ) .
By the way barry I will fit the small props back on as it was more likly that the grass is the problem and not the props.
will let you know how things go and thanks again.
Andy ???
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: CraigO on July 12, 2004, 01:44:16 am
all i can say andy is dont be too brave yet.  take it easy.  sort out the problem first.  one thing i would try is a range check with the ailerons unplugged motors running etc.  but you want to be sure that the glitch isnt going to bite you before you fly it at all.  if you have got another receiver, try that in there too. are your motors on a separate plug or are they hard wired into the esc.  with all of the cannels plugged in without the motors plugged in do you still have a problem.     does it go away if you hold the model aerial up off the ground.  sometimes the ground can act as a bit of a shield.  if the motors arent on a plug then i would unplug everthing else and plug in 1 channel at a time, chechking that it is AOK each time.  aerial down and a long way away!

once you get this bird in the air,  be gentle,  really gentle! slow climb on full power keep your speed up.  gain as much height as possible before you turn.  at my field i often have to take off a bit Cross wind.  that can be an advantage because i can then turn into the wind after take off and get a bit of a zoom climb happening.  anyway just be gentle.

come on gordon no carpet burns!

Craig
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: BalsaDust on July 12, 2004, 08:50:27 am
Hi Andy,
I hope you sort out your problems ..... as Craig says - don't push your luck until you've found the problem !

I fly mine with a separate Rx battery. Its only a small 300mAh pack so doesn't add too much weight and can be recharged at the field if it gets too low .....

Good luck
BalsaDust
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on July 12, 2004, 20:27:34 pm
Couldn't agree more with BD and Craig's sentiments......don't rush it Andy, just go thru the system in a methodical way as Craig described.  My money's on a dodgy ESC...if any of the mosfets are playing up then the split RF would be horrendous.  If u can't tie down the problem as Craig describes, go for item replacement on a one-for-one basis...that way u don't have 2 or more variables to mess u around.  if u have any spare ESCs, Rx etc or a mate who could lend u them for a while then that is what I'd be doing as a final fault diagnostic method, but above all, don't rush to get her in the air, as she's got too much hard work to bin bag her in a hurry.   ;)

Quotecome on gordon no carpet burns!
..........but Craig I WAS being serious!  ;D ;D
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: a.mclellan on July 12, 2004, 21:27:32 pm
Hi Chaps, Lets see what you think of this lot. Have tried two seperate esc's, two seperate rec, removed the motors from the esc's
findings with or without motors if the power for the servos comes from esc it glitches if the power comes from a rec battery and the motors are run by the esc there is no clitching. My conclusion is that the esc is not giving a smooth steady dc voltage. I ment to bring home a fluke meter to messure it but forgot( pressure of work you no) so I will take it to work tomorrow and see what is happening during my lunch break. All test have been done on a bench with the tran sitting next to the rec.

Regards
Andy

PS no fear the old girl will go through growned runs and test long before his learns to hop, sunday was just a taxie run to see how much pull she had.  (not a lot) ;)
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: BalsaDust on July 12, 2004, 22:38:47 pm
Hi Andy,
from what you describe, my money's on the ESC. Not a fault as such, but just not able to supply enough current to all the servos.
Check the spec for the ESC to see how many servos it will run happily when connected to a 10 cell pack. (you did say 10 cells didn't you ?? ) You may find it's only 2 !

Your best bet is to use a separate Rx pack. Much safer. :)

regards
BalsaDust
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on July 12, 2004, 23:27:57 pm
QuoteYour best bet is to use a separate Rx pack. Much safer
................Your best bet is not to use a seperate Rx pack.  Much lighter  ;D ;D ;D ;D  But BD...seriously oh guru....if Andy is using 10 cells that is a hefty weight in itself, so perhaps in this case safety needs to play second fiddle to his main problem of weight?  Good point re the servos.  I remember we spoke about the maximum number of servos eons ago and I said I had 5 servos, which was one more than the Jeti 50A ESC should have been wired up for.  My opinion then as now was that the retract servo is so infrequent in use, why worry?  Incidentally Andy Mc, the Jeti ESCs over 18A maximum current handle 3 to 4 servos, with those between 11A to 18A ok with 3 servos.     
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: CraigO on July 13, 2004, 01:04:53 am
Ok here is another solution,  you can get these lovely little battery excluders.  I cant think of the acronym that is used for them but essentially it is a separate BEC that you plug into the main battery pack and it supplies the receiver and servos without relying on the BEC in the ESC.  i think they are called a UBEC or something like that. 

they weigh about 15gms lots lighter than an external pack and they provide the same function, a power supply for the receiver and servos without relying on the ESC.

hows about that then!!

Craig
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on July 13, 2004, 14:02:50 pm
Quotehows about that then!!
...Craig...suitably impressed  ;)
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: BalsaDust on July 13, 2004, 14:31:58 pm
QuoteMy opinion then as now was that the retract servo is so infrequent in use, why worry?


Sorry Gordon, I just remember how many heavy duty bicycle clips I used on my first flight  ;D

I might just put them up in the For Sale Section ....... only one VERY careful owner !

BalsaDust
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: a.mclellan on July 13, 2004, 22:39:04 pm
Hi chaps, I have been taking to Goron Tarling today, the depressing news is lose 2lbs if not it will never fly no matter what motors batteries ect I put in it. Unless I go for IC engines (no I didn't say that did I ) If I remove the retract system two full servos and two mini servos and replace them with just one mini  servo I will be down to four servos which the esc can control and if the weight is between 6.5 and 7.5 I should be able to hand launch it. I will tell the crew to throw out anything that is not needed.
will keep you posted
regards
Andy :-\
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on July 13, 2004, 23:00:09 pm
Andy...so it's the Atkins diet or nothing eh?  Gordon Tarling...that name is familiar, who is he?

Quoteif the weight is between 6.5 and 7.5 I should be able to hand launch it
.............WHAT?  Still, I'm a 10 stone weakling, but I certainly wouldn't like to hand lauch my beastie!  :-X

My new ESC arrived this morning, a 45A beastie, yummy!  That should keep a good safety margin even for my parallel setup.   ;)  No progress on the lanc although I've tracked down the lacquer Walts mentioned a few posts ago.  So the Inverurie model shop's getting a visit tomorrow morning! 

Now a very important thing the guy at Inwoods mentioned this morning.  He said that NiMh will be banned next year as manganese is a banned substance under EU legislation.  He also said that a typical £60 LiPo will cost around £27 by this time next year.  Good news for the weight watchers amongst us...me included!   
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: BalsaDust on July 14, 2004, 08:49:57 am
Hi guys,
lets hope that Lipo costs come down like you say Gordon ..... roll on next year !
Ditto on the hand launch by the way ..... There's no way I'd do that with my pride & joy ! A better option for grass fields may be to put down some sheets of hardboard to act as a runway like they do at Sandown .....

Andy, just to recap, I've flown my Lanc very succesfully using 2.33:1 boxes and APC-E 8x6 props. I'm powering everything with a 10 cell 3300 NimH pack and the model weighs 6lbs 12oz. I've checked the RPM at the prop and I'm getting a tad over 6k.
If you've seen the video I posted, it has more than enough power and indeed would probably fly on 8 or 9 cells quite happily ...

I've tried APC 9x4.5 props but although the model flew with these, it felt a bit marginal. I landed fairly soon after takeoff as I wasn't as happy with these as with the 8x6 setup.

How much does your model weigh now ? (with / without batteries ....)
Can you check your RPM ?

Rest assured your model WILL fly, we just need to make sure we get all bits working together at their best !

regards
BalsaDust
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: a.mclellan on July 14, 2004, 10:17:36 am
Thanks for your support, I will give you a clue what has Gordon tarling and motocal have in common.
Bill my brotherinlaw is coming over at the weekend he has been flying electric for years and it was him that put me on to Gordon www.hackerbrushless.co.uk, any way bill is bringing his clip on wat meter so we should be able to see whats happening. By the way try Gordon for your props 1/2 the price I paid at my Model Shop.


regards
Andy
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on July 14, 2004, 19:37:02 pm
Hi Andy's!  Good to know u are going to get the Wattmeter on your lanc, as it is a brilliant piece of kit.  I'd like a rev meter too, but the company BD put me on to are still getting their website up and running, so I'm still waiting!

However, I got my satin fuel proofer this afternoon and how nice to find myself in a proper model shop!  Ok, it's 60 miles from where I live but their website is due to come on-line in 3 months...I hope!  I was tempted with an ARTF Spitfire, but resisted......for now!   I was drooling over the 1/16th scale Tamiya Tiger 1 at a cool £750  :o  (yeah I'm also an armoured fighting vehicle closet nut at heart too).  Really nice chat with the owner too, who offered some cut price rates for bulk orders for the school model club etc....impressed on that one!  Yeah, I'll be going back there, distance will decree not very often, but it's my 'local' shop now!  ;) 

Been busy on the E-zone getting some gen on varioprops.  A guy from Texas has been very helpful and tried to help this luddite in selecting a set for the lanc...I'll keep u posted.

Anyhow, the lanc has had its tail assembly underside sprayed black tonight. 

Had a scary thought!  If I keep the drafting tape and paper on and apply the decals I could FINISH the tail tomorrow? 

Scary thought #2, I could finish the fuselage on Friday. 

Last scary thought for tonight......I could finish the painting etc by next Monday! 

Too scary...I'm off to bed  :-X

Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: a.mclellan on July 15, 2004, 10:26:29 am
Quote from: Gordon on July 14, 2004, 19:37:02 pm
Hi Andy's!  Good to know u are going to get the Wattmeter on your lanc, as it is a brilliant piece of kit.  I'd like a rev meter too, but the company BD put me on to are still getting their website up and running, so I'm still waiting!

However, I got my satin fuel proofer this afternoon and how nice to find myself in a proper model shop!  Ok, it's 60 miles from where I live but their website is due to come on-line in 3 months...I hope!  I was tempted with an ARTF Spitfire, but resisted......for now!   I was drooling over the 1/16th scale Tamiya Tiger 1 at a cool £750  :o  (yeah I'm also an armoured fighting vehicle closet nut at heart too).  Really nice chat with the owner too, who offered some cut price rates for bulk orders for the school model club etc....impressed on that one!  Yeah, I'll be going back there, distance will decree not very often, but it's my 'local' shop now!  ;) 

Been busy on the E-zone getting some gen on varioprops.  A guy from Texas has been very helpful and tried to help this luddite in selecting a set for the lanc...I'll keep u posted.

Anyhow, the lanc has had its tail assembly underside sprayed black tonight. 

Had a scary thought!  If I keep the drafting tape and paper on and apply the decals I could FINISH the tail tomorrow? 

Scary thought #2, I could finish the fuselage on Friday. 

Last scary thought for tonight......I could finish the painting etc by next Monday! 

Too scary...I'm off to bed  :-X



What's the matter with you man you have got a light in the workshop (shed) burn the midnight oil and finish it sleep is for golfer not for us scratch build concrete mixing sort of people.

andy ;D
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: a.mclellan on July 15, 2004, 12:53:34 pm
Gordon you no what it like when you get three quotes in for a job you want done and all three offer something deferent and you don't no which to choose, well my good old brotherinlaw bill was talking with chris golds about a comet when the subject of my Lancaster was brought up so they have done all the calculations on motorcal and another program and if I can loose one lb remove the motors and replace with four speed 400 direct drive with can you believe the small gunter props that are on my quad star twin star modified it will fly off shortend grass.So I have got to get this done tonight and tomorrow night for checking out on saturday.
I can't see this flying but I will let you know.

Andy ;D
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: swarfmaker on July 15, 2004, 18:14:49 pm

  Andy
   gunther props were said to be the in thing for my lanc and they worked, they look like somthing 
  thats fallen of a rubber job.Thats for a lanc of  4lbs, at 7 i'd stick to 7*6's or even 8*6's and cut them down to size if need be.Abit of glue may be in order for the gunther's.
                TRY ANY THING  but watch those landings they will be heavy.

                                                      Barry
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: a.mclellan on July 15, 2004, 23:39:04 pm
Hi Barry, Have changed the motors and now have four speed 400 6v with the gunther props. it now looks more like the origanal T N set up, they do look funny and I would agree about the glue I have just fitted four old one's on for now and will buy some new one's on saturday so I haven't glue them, they keep flying off every where. I have removed some servos and the weight now with the batteries is 7lbs and I have still to replace the 4"" wheels so we seem to be getting some were at last. keep you posted as to results of the weekend

regards
Andy

PS I take it Goron is still asleep ;D
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on July 15, 2004, 23:50:08 pm
Quotefour speed 400 direct drive
..........Andy, are u sure direct drive will work?  I'm convinced direct drive is not the way to go.  Reason being in the very early lanc threads some of the guys had gone this way and the lanc was just so under powered.  I think the plan does give the option of direct drive, but the gearbox option is really the only way forward (excuse the pun!). 
QuoteI can't see this flying but I will let you know.
...I'll agree on that comment!  ;)

Quotegunther props were said to be the in thing for my lanc and they worked, they look like somthing thats fallen of a rubber job.Thats for a lanc of  4lbs, at 7 i'd stick to 7*6's or even 8*6's
........agree there SM  ;D  I've been chatting to a guy on the E-zone regarding those varioprops...he's come up with a size for them and I'll buy a set once the lanc has flown.

On the lanc front I've now finished the fuselage and tail assembly.  Now a BIG word of caution.  Anyone who uses fuel proofer on water slide decals will see them crinkle up as I did today.  The first coat was fine but I put on a second coat, as was recommended and b...lls, the decals just crinkled up.  As it dried it eased slightly, but the decals are far from what I wanted...so be careful guys!

 

 
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: a.mclellan on July 16, 2004, 13:00:04 pm
To be honest Gordon ,I don't no if it is the right move. I am going to fit a lighter undercarriage Sunday or Monday night and see what the weight is then. Bill can play around with it tomorrow with the G props then hopefully with the new weight which should be less than the 7lbs including batteries I can get back to being able to fit the 7x5 with the spinners.
  He has put him self out to come over this weekend and has put a lot of effort into trying to help me. not to mention all the weight to thrust ratios quoted and graphs so hopefully is right. If not we will start again with a improved lighter weight and follow up all the suggestions here which are by the way still important to me.

regards
Andy  ???
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: swarfmaker on July 16, 2004, 20:02:36 pm

  Andy
  If you'r into direct drive,gunther's were ok on mine but 6*4's were better on 7.2v motors.I did'nt
  like the props wizing round that fast so went to gearboxes.With your wt direct seems  to be a
  bit of to much time on the praying mat.MotoCalc is only a guide don't use it as a bible.The extra
  wt needs more thrust, that is thrust at flying speed not 80 mph on small props = geabox. toy
  props for toy planes.Having said that there was a jet lanc test bed.

                                                   Barry

Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: a.mclellan on July 16, 2004, 22:14:51 pm
Hi Barry, I have glued the props on tonight and have just run the motors . just by holding the wing I can feel that the pull is not as good as the geared motor with a 7x5 prop but we will see what tomorrow brings. What a nightmare, one good thing is by reducing the amount of servos the glitching as gone.
Thank for feeding me with the info, it might be worth once the lighter wheels are on is to get the weights of the model without motors and esc and see if the weight needs to  be reduced any more.

Thanks again
Andy :)
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on July 17, 2004, 00:23:20 am
Hi guys...good to see that your glitching has gone Andy...I know where it went, into my Lanc  :D  Ran it tonight with its new 45A ESC and got a miserly 11.8A @ 93Watts!  What the hell is going on here I asked myself!  Swopped the lighter 35A ESC back into the lanc and the same figures!  Bemused or what?  Discharged and recharged the pack, but my 12V battery source needed charging before I could finish recharging the 3300MAh pack, so gave up and called it a day (or night?).  Then I thought to myself...wait a minute, it's a parallel circuit, so the motors will 'see' 8.4v (about 1.2v 'lost' due to internal pack / circuit resistance?), so is the Wattmeter only showing 93 Watts for a single motor?  All motors are really working hard, so BD, I wish I had your rev meter to verify the props are doing what they should be doing.  :-\  If it's what I think is true then it should be four times 93 watts or 372watts at maximum.  At a round 7lbs what would be around 53Watts/lb...somehow I don't buy that!   ;D  The Escs and pack were very warm, so the power is being drawn through the circuit, so I need to go to bed and think about this!  ;) 

No finishing done on the lanc, so won't finish the wing as I thought this week as off down to see my brother on Wednesday. 
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Arel on July 17, 2004, 06:12:10 am
Andy,

How's your credit limit?....Is it too early to start talking about brushless motors and LiPos? :D Seriously though, looks like you're in a catch 22 situation. The Gunther prop/sp400 combo is a proven system. Chris Golds used it on his Beverly, Some Russian Ugly (TU3?) and his Comet and the original Traplet Foamie Lanc seems to fly alright on that system. On the negative side, I don't think any of them weighed 7lb+. Good luck

Gordo,

Curiouser and curiouser. Does the whattmeter say what volts are available? Could be something silly like a duff cell...

Rich (Two flights-One crash today...Getting better :D ;D)
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on July 17, 2004, 10:38:33 am
QuoteDoes the whattmeter say what volts are available? Could be something silly like a duff cell...
....thought that myself Arel, but the Whattmeter is saying 8.4v, which with internal resistance should be right.  I'll charge one of my 6 cell 2400MAh packs and see what the Whattmeter says about that one...then I can say the meter is working ok.  After that, I'll consider LiPos.......only joking, but certainly will if my buddy at Inwoods is correct about them plummeting in price next year?   ;)
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on July 17, 2004, 11:20:30 am
As a side issue I found a good site at www.newcreations-rc.com that does virtually indestructable Grish 3-blader propellors....dirt cheap too...don't seem to do international orders, but if this site sells them a European site must do, so I'll keep on looking!

Stop Press.........here is THE site at www.grishproducts.com/
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: swarfmaker on July 17, 2004, 20:08:27 pm

  Gordon

            The most effecient prop is a single blade,2 blades don't give twice the power and 3don't
  give three times,2blades for ballance and 3 for show,4blades aint much better i've tried them.
  they look good on the ground but don't pull as you might think and you can't tell in flight.
   save pennies and wt.

                                                     Barry
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on July 17, 2004, 21:47:41 pm
Hi SM....
Quote3 for show
....that's the reason I want 3-bladers, give that man a cigar!  ;D 

Now guys about my low power problem...solved and HOW  8) 8) 8) 8)  Tried my 6 cell 7.2v x 2400MAh pack and it gave a respectical 173 watts..."aha" says I, it's the 3300MAh pack that's dodgy.  So gave it a discharge and a recharge and with the new 45A ESC fitted she gave 42A and a wopping 355 watts static ;)  That's a knats whisker off 51 watts / pound.......should have loads of power to get her airborne, so much so, that she was slipping off the workbench clamps and I had to grab her while throttling back pronto!  ;D

Now that I know she'll fly (and some), it's back to finishing off the wing.  Next weekend seems a good target to wrap up the model.  Still need to re-temper the undercarriage piano wire, as the piece that enters the retracts seems too soft for my liking, so that will have to wait until I go back to work.
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Dek on July 18, 2004, 17:50:52 pm
Hi Guys
Pleased to see all the old faces are still here after my long absence.
My Lanc (Offley Belle) still needs some wiring to complete it but I'm still hopeful to see it in the air this summer.
Keep the faith.
Derek
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on July 19, 2004, 00:24:57 am
QuotePleased to see all the old faces are still here after my long absence.
...........................Dek?  Dek who?  LOOOOOOOOOOONG time no hear u 'ol sod, how u doing?  So your lanc is coming along nicely too?  That would be 3 of us coming to the end of the model at around the same time (u, Walts and moi). 

I had a fit of peak and managed 2 hours tonight.  This is how the wing looks, with the rest fully finished.



[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: CraigO on July 19, 2004, 00:36:53 am
at the risk of being accused of being an cheeky Ozzie,  WHat is a WHatmeter  i have heard of a Wattmeter.  does a WHatmeter measure the number of "WHats" in a construction period.  :)

mmm

good to ohear that you have sorted out your power system gordon.  it will be great to read the first flight post !

Andy look around and see if you can find the great planes light wheels.  they are only about 10 grams each!  as opposed to some of the other wheels that are 60Gms+ each!  the only drawback is the size is limited to 78mm.  I have found a pair that are 83mm but that took a lot of searching.

good luck all.  mossie progress is really slow.  I bought a couple of 1/10 scale commandoes and i am busy pulling them to pieces, lightnening them,  and making them look more like pilots.  he he this is fun.  I have been making some other instruments and stuff for the cockpit.  most of the model is now built,  i am hanging off finishing the nacelles until i have built the undercarriage.

cheers all

Craig
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on July 19, 2004, 00:44:05 am
Oi Craig....I changed my spelling when I saw Arel had spelt it that way...and he's a ....y Ozzie  ;D ;D ;D ;D

Quoteit will be great to read the first flight post !
....after SWMBO gives me my flight clearance certificate!  :-X
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Arel on July 19, 2004, 08:17:46 am
Quote from: Gordon on July 19, 2004, 00:44:05 am
Oi Craig....I changed my spelling when I saw Arel had spelt it that way...and he's a ....y Ozzie  ;D ;D ;D ;D


I must have been three sheets to the wind at the time...Don't blame me for your spelling mishaps Mr Bain...You're a teacher, you should know how to spell ;) :D
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on July 19, 2004, 22:42:12 pm
QuoteI must have been three sheets to the wind at the time
...mmm, "whatts" my excuse then?  ;D 

Been busy today.  Got the upper wing surface camo finished and the underside is masked off ready to spray tomorrow morning...........starting in the morning, as I'm not at work, as being a teacher I have to take all this holiday they give me Arel  ;)

By the way Walts...u might have a competitor in the 'who can make the most superb lanc undercarriage'....Arel is making a really nice job, but is posting his efforts on a foamie lanc E-zone thread?   He's Australian u know  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Arel on July 20, 2004, 06:54:45 am
I get the hint Gordo...It's just the whole <20k thing makes me feel sad and unwanted sometimes.

I wasn't going to post any more pics till they were glued and painted but the idiot box was boooring

Which reminds me I've got to get some collar thingies for the whatchmacallits

Anyone care to guess who's local hobby emporium is only 300 meters away from his front door ?

Rich
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on July 20, 2004, 09:18:14 am
QuoteAnyone care to guess who's local hobby emporium is only 300 meters away from his front door ?
...go on then surprise us?  ;D
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Arel on July 20, 2004, 10:39:53 am
Quote from: Gordon on July 20, 2004, 09:18:14 am
QuoteAnyone care to guess who's local hobby emporium is only 300 meters away from his front door ?
...go on then surprise us?  ;D


Obviously that one was too easy...Can anyone say how many pubs/bottleshops I pass on the way...Here's a hint :D :D :D
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on July 20, 2004, 17:05:12 pm
Hint?.......ok then Arel, whatt is it?  ;)

Walts...remember all the time u took to get those bomb sortie decals done.  When I was putting mine on Paul at Precision markings had sent me an extra 2...so if anyone wants them let me know via IM...I'll post them onto u.
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on July 20, 2004, 22:58:03 pm
Special night tonight, as u can see in the pic guys!  She's FINISHED.  I'll put a few more on, as I took 30 pics tonight....ok, so the champagne was the reason I did that.  she's got a few minor bits 'n pieces to do, like range of movement adjustments etc, but the workshop is really tidy tonight...strange feeling thinking I've finished a routine that has lasted 16 months!  ;D

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on July 20, 2004, 23:11:58 pm
Here's a few more.  I put some more and bigger ones on the USA E-zone 'priory lancaster' thread.

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: CraigO on July 21, 2004, 00:23:19 am
Come on gordon   surely it isnt finished,  there arent any gear doors!

Seriously bud it looks fantastic!  well done.  now have you got the wellies and bicycle clips on standby for that day in november!


cheers

Craig
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Arel on July 21, 2004, 08:36:35 am
Looking good Gordo...really good. Can't see it in these pics, but did the paint masking method work ok?
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: a.mclellan on July 21, 2004, 10:12:18 am
nice work Gordon, I hope she flies well now what are you going to do with all that spare time. Look at T N very large Lancaster on Saturday, it even flew on three motors, there's a project for you. ;D

Good Work
Andy
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on July 21, 2004, 14:59:20 pm
QuoteCome on gordon   surely it isnt finished,  there arent any gear doors!
...........too true Craig!  Or should I say that the lanc is finished until the maiden, when she'll get her doors etc if my wellies aren't needed.  ;D  Arel...as for the spraying, I just cut out card templates and weighed them down with lead and little tins of humbrol paint.  I sprayed to allow it just to fall onto the wing and the overspray was minimal, with just a couple of edges needing a slight touch up.  I'll chat some more on Saturday, as family duties call now  ;)
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Arel on July 24, 2004, 10:21:16 am
Hi guys,

Got my nacelles and retract units mounted on the Lanc wing...so I couldn't help putting it together and taking a pic or two. Starting to look like a Lanc should

(http://rcmf.co.uk/old-uploads/IMG_0501.jpg)

(http://rcmf.co.uk/old-uploads/IMG_0499a.jpg)
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on July 24, 2004, 22:22:52 pm
QuoteStarting to look like a Lanc should
....................Yup, very nice progress too Arel.  Just got back from my parental dutires tonight, so I'll post a few pics myself on the E-Zone tomorrow.  I'll start getting the flying control throws finalised tomorrow.   
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on July 25, 2004, 19:13:55 pm
Hi chaps...put 4 photos on the E-zone...they are at     www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2431266#post2431266 

The 20K size on here doesn't do them any justice!  however, your pics look very big AND clear Arel, how come?   ;)

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Arel on July 26, 2004, 09:43:58 am
Quote from: Gordon on July 25, 2004, 19:13:55 pm
Hi chaps...put 4 photos on the E-zone...they are at     www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2431266#post2431266 

The 20K size on here doesn't do them any justice!  however, your pics look very big AND clear Arel, how come?   ;)


Two reasons Gordon my good man...

1)  One pic is ~35k and the other is ~24k

2)  I worked out how to use the image uploader, which allows bigger pics :). It's very similar to the way RcGroups does things

Rich
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on July 26, 2004, 10:24:43 am
Arel...I'll give that a try tonight...mucho thanks.
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Arel on July 26, 2004, 12:20:13 pm
Quote from: Gordon on July 26, 2004, 10:24:43 am
Arel...I'll give that a try tonight...mucho thanks.


Please do...I'd like some Gordon brand wallpaper :)
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on July 26, 2004, 20:21:08 pm
Hi Again....well,  I was just a little bit cheesed off this afternoon when I was flicking through the latest issue of RCM&E.  There was a feature of a guy who had built the Nexus i/c version of the lanc...just a scaled up plan of what most of us are doing here.  Having looked at the lanc, to be honest, it was no great shake on most areas other than a neat piece of work on the exhausts, which looked VERY nice. 

I decide to have a chat with Graham Ashby, the editor of RCM&E.  I had a receptive 10 minute chat on why his magazine completely ignores the mass of superb modelling that is going on all over the world on these threads?  He agreed!  I invited him and his research staff to browse these sites and look at the quality of work....I think of BDs and Walts' work in particular, with the 'young pretender' Arel beginning to show his mettle  ;)  Graham said that if anyone cared to send him any pics of their work then he'd happily consider it for his mag....can't say much fairer than that?  Think I'll take him up on that offer once our November fair is over...or sooner?  Waddy think guys?

Here's a pic I tried to do as an image upload.  I put this one on as a 35kb pic and then scaled it up to about 48kb.....the 48kb is not as sharp as the 35kb one was though.  I'll put a few more on to let Arel get a set for his wallpaper pattern.   ;D ;D   

(http://rcmf.co.uk/old-uploads/ImageUploadn2.JPG)

Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on July 26, 2004, 22:56:01 pm
Here's a few more Arel...inluded is the 'atmospheric' one u liked.  ;)

(http://rcmf.co.uk/old-uploads/undersideFrontshotoffinishedlanc.JPG) (http://rcmf.co.uk/old-uploads/Chatwithteabeforestartup.JPG)

(http://rcmf.co.uk/old-uploads/FinishedLancBatteryPosition.JPG) (http://rcmf.co.uk/old-uploads/NoseAreaofFinishedLancn1.JPG)
(http://rcmf.co.uk/old-uploads/planfromPortSiden1.JPG) (http://rcmf.co.uk/old-uploads/FinalLancFinishongrassn1.JPG)

(http://rcmf.co.uk/old-uploads/ViewfromAftofCockpitn1.JPG)

Is that enough Arel...?  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: a.mclellan on July 27, 2004, 21:09:25 pm
Gordon what weight is your lanc now.

regards
Andy
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on July 27, 2004, 21:26:11 pm
Andy...it's just a tage under 7 pounds.  ;)
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Arel on July 28, 2004, 09:36:58 am
Gordon,

Thanks mate

Andy,

Any news?
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: a.mclellan on July 28, 2004, 10:26:12 am
Arel, the news was bad, spent some time talking to Tony N,Who basically said that it would have to loose weight if it would fly(this was at seven pounds) but he didn't think direct drive was the answer. I was at that time unable to get any light wheels, so we did a test with direct drive and it still would not fly. We then decided to remove all the wheels and retracts and do a hand launch.I launched it and my brotherinlaw flew it.
All was going well it staidly climbed and on banking round the motors stopped and it fell out of the sky as if shot down by a ME 109.TN was telling me that the larger one is easier to make and by getting the wood from slec the quality is better. I have been in touch with Slec Ltd who are up the road from me and can collect from them. So I have decided to build again, what's the verdict I wan't to build bigger as I think it will be easier but I will need to find out how long a runway I will need and if are grass strip will be long enough.

Regards
Andy :)
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: swarfmaker on July 28, 2004, 17:31:05 pm
  ANDY
   7lbs flew ok ,it's not the wt that brought it down it was an electrical fault.Sowhat went wrong ?
  Building bigger is not the answer, finding out the cause is.what was the set up you were using,
  the full spec so's we can all play at find the fault.

                                                     Barry

   
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: a.mclellan on July 28, 2004, 20:58:01 pm
Barry,
I had a rc line 50amp ESC running the motors, and a seperate battery running the servos.The motors were running on 35 amps.On inspection the servo battery was ok, I have put it down to the esc which was the only thing that was not new.
Before flying we checked the C of G and that was fine, I think also that if the motors had stopped on the climb and not on the turn it would have landed ok but as the trees were getting close it seemed the right time to start the turn, at the turn angle there was not enought hight to regain level wings and glide.
I would like to have run the motors to see how long they would run but as we no it is not good practis. I have not been able to prove the esc as the twelve cell pack was the brotherinlaws.

well what do you think.

Regards
Andy ???

Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: gyronuts on July 28, 2004, 21:52:21 pm
Hi I am the brother in law.
Checked on the ground and Ampmeter said 45 amps on the ground so 40 approx in the air. (We ran it on the ground  and maintained 40 amps at full power after 45 secs) .10 x 3000nimh gives 400watts. Model weighed just under 6Lbs for hand launch so about 65w/Lb+. Model climbed away after a slight dip of about 6 feet and some 25 secs into the flight at about 100ft i started a gentle turn right. Immediately the motors stopped dead and the model pitched nose down very violently as if full down had been applied. There was no wing drop or any bank, just a violent  pitch straight down as if the tail had come off.
.It did not stall and there was no response from the model to any Tx input.
Suggested causes...
1.The rx aerial was straight down the outside of the fuselage so effectively in a straight line to the Tx aerial.
2. Failure of the Rx battery or faulty charge
3. Speed controller fault
Bill
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on July 29, 2004, 00:11:37 am
Andy...so sorry to hear the lanc crashed (this is THE reason why SWMBO has forbade me from flying mine before the model fair...just in case I !)  I agree 100% with SM that building bigger isn't the answer.  If u do decide to rebuild on a bigger scale have a look at this months RCM&E.  It's got a guy who built the bigger i/c Tony Nijheus lanc.  Looks nice, but not a tage on Walts' lanc for detail  ;)

I had mine off the shelf this afternoon and began to improve the 'stickiness' of the mid-upper's velcro, as I'm sure everyone has a job (or 3) on a model that they think could have been done better?  No?  u are lucky!   :D  I need to get it assembled to get the range of movements and c of g checked...then onto getting a box made for it at work.
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Arel on July 29, 2004, 02:59:25 am
Andy,

How bad was the damage? Foam is sometimes repairable...

Are you talking about the Tony N 12ft Lanc?. If so there was a thread about the build on the Ezone a year or so ago Uses a lot of wood and a pretty spendy power train I think

Oh...you'll need a big work bench too :)

Rich
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: a.mclellan on July 29, 2004, 10:24:34 am
Thanks Gordon its on of those things, ???
Rich, its all wood but I think, do to the fact it was built heavy it would be better to start again and this time try to build lighter then I would be able to fit the geared motors and retracts. I need to motivate myself to build rather than keep looking for a ARTF. Besides if I build a bigger on I will have all the problems of transport and every thing else.I think its because I think building bigger would be easier and I could motivate my self to do it, but I know you are all right in what you say and I will stick to the 6ft one.


regards
Andy. :)

PS hay Bill I bet your glad I have changed my mind on the big one.
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: swarfmaker on July 29, 2004, 14:08:51 pm
 
  Andy
  proberbly a silly thing to ask but      is your esc rated for 12 cells.Running close to max amps
  with a bit of extra volts can soon nacker the on board regulator and oop's things go crazy just
  like that.Just a thought,it can be tested by testing the voltage on load.
  Be like an army cook .....it's smoking  its cooking, burning it's done and you can't get the bloody
  smoke to go back in.

                                                     Barry
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: a.mclellan on July 29, 2004, 15:20:56 pm
Barry,              The Spec

Low batt. cut off          4.8V
cont current                78A
peak current                600A
RDS                            1.83 M OHM
BEC                             5v/2A
Input voltage               5-10 cell
motor turn                   15
Temp cut off                Yes

Regards
Andy
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on July 29, 2004, 22:39:54 pm
Hi Guys...just as a side issue, I thought of putting my control throws and C of G info on the 'roof' of the lanc fuselage above where the wing bolts onto the fuselage.  Wrote it in bright Gel pen (courtesy of my young daughter!).   For example, in the event of a servo needing replaced u don't need to consult the plans for this info.  ;)
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: swarfmaker on July 30, 2004, 09:24:03 am

  Andy
          This is just a gut feeling but, i'd go for temp cut off,try it on the benchand run the rig till
  it iether trips or runs down,proove it one way or the other.

                                                   Barry
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on July 30, 2004, 14:27:14 pm
Andy...I had a suspect JETI 50A ESC so I returned it to Inwoods and they sent me a new one within 48 hours.....not bad service considering the 1200 mile postal trip?

As I've gone thru my Motorcalc calculations with a fine toothed comb, it seems that she'll unstick around 13mph.  She'll fly at max throttle between 27 and 34 mph and should give an easy 7.5 minutes at max chat.  If I fly her at 91% (Gawd knows how I'll do that?), she'll do 9.5 minutes.  Had to laugh at Motorcalc's 'opinion' as she'll have the flying caracteristics of a trainer and should be flown in light wind conditions only...u reading this BD?  ;D  Only concern is the high battery temperature (200 deg F as compared to 140 deg F for ideal running)...any ideas how to keep the pack cooler...I thought about cooling air..I'll look at that tomorrow.

Ran my patrol boat's engine today for the first time since 1977....after a strip down and new needle assembly, so ran!  Now to fine tune her.  Ah, the noise and smell of glo-fuel, I've never missed it  ;D
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on July 31, 2004, 23:10:20 pm
Hi me!  Where IS everyone?  Just to prove I'm still working on the lanc, I've improved the security of the cables coming out of the Rx, as one of mine pulled out during the course of my puttering about doing this 'n that.  I used a tywrap and drilled thru the excess to allow fitment of a screw, like a 'p' clip setup.  I then tywrapped the loom to allow easy passage into the tail assembly.  Here's a couple of pics.

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Bomberguy on August 01, 2004, 07:43:03 am
Hey Gordon, I thought I'd finally post a hello over here, you seem so lonely :'( Looks like everone is out flying :D  I see you're getting to the little details now that all the hard work is done, that thing will be Mil-Spec by the time you fly it ;)

(I love all the litttle faces on this forum 8))
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on August 01, 2004, 08:57:27 am
Hi BG, nice to see u here....yup eveyone IS out flying and about time I was!  ;D
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: CraigO on August 02, 2004, 03:14:07 am
if you are going to do a lng bench run then put a fan on the set up.   ie an old room fan on low or medium just to simulae flying conditions.

the other thing to try is leave the arial down, or better yet, unscrew it and take it out, and walk away a bit ans see if the glitching starts again. 

to me the symptoms sound like radio interference.  I have had mine go flat in the air and yes the glide is steep but not that steep.  easily controllable.  and from 100 feet a turn should have been dooable.  with the wing loading based on 6lb this thing is nearly a glider anyway, i am certainly going to try to thermal mine later in the australian summer, when you can thermal a paper bag :)

I had one of the Aileron linkages unscrew on mine in flight and all it did was respond a bit slower.  these are really stable birds.  much like the full size. :)

Gordon I wouldnt cable tie your arial to the servo wires.  yes it looks neater but i would rather see it separate and if possible running outide the airfarme.

Cheers all and happy flying.

PS i just got a cheapie digital camera,  I will try to post some mozz pics soon!

Craig

Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on August 02, 2004, 08:45:39 am
QuoteGordon I wouldnt cable tie your arial to the servo wires.  yes it looks neater but i would rather see it separate and if possible running outide the airfarme.
.....totally agree, now been fixed!   ;)
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: a.mclellan on August 03, 2004, 10:17:21 am
Gordon I took my arial out at the wing join and ran it along the bottom in small lenghts of fuel tubbing painted black. I had thought of making a scoop just before the battery compartment and a reverse scoop at the end of the battery comp, but I was concered about an increase in drag.

Sorry you were left all alone, I was flying my spit.


Regards
Andy :)
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on August 03, 2004, 12:24:03 pm
QuoteSorry you were left all alone, I was flying my spit.
..........that's a bone of contention at the moment, since I've been waiting for my Spit from Al's Hobbies for ever.  so much so that I'm buying an as-new Scorpio Spit from a chap on this site...should be here next week!  ;)

I'm rehashing my elevators since I'm not too chuffed with the side play on the linkages, so that'll keep me busy for a couple of days...who said I was finished?  ;D
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on August 04, 2004, 23:41:43 pm
Ok Walts....I'm fitting exhausts too... ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: a.mclellan on August 05, 2004, 17:14:40 pm
Gordon, just a suggestion I cut two  long norrow holes along the sides were the exhausts would be
and fitted light plastic tube sliced in half as exhaust pipe guards. the bottom fixing block of the motor housings were cut at an angle so the air would enter through the bottom intake under the motor hit the angled fixing block move up over the motor and out through the exhaust holes, also  the air moving through the exhaust pipe will pull the air from around the motor.

Regards
Andy O0
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on August 05, 2004, 18:26:43 pm
Andy...nice idea re the tubing for the exhausts as it would reduce messing about with balsa.  Your cooling system sounds very effective, so I'll try and incorporate some of it into my setup  O0
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: a.mclellan on August 05, 2004, 22:15:34 pm
Barry, Just to let you know we are going to check out the esc with bills ten cell bat on saturday will let you know what happens.

regards
Andy O0
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on August 05, 2004, 22:31:06 pm
Andy...tried the silicone tube idea tonight and although it's definately quick, I'm not a great believer in gluing silicone, as it's a pain to keep stuck.  So tried some strip spruce and rounded it off.  I then used a Greatplanes 'Grove Tube' to cut the inside slot to replicate the hollow of the exhaust cover.  Although the cover should be 80 millimetres in length, the nacelles are not that long, so I've opted for a 50 millimetre cover, which looks good anyway.  Once I glue them on to one of the nacelles I'll put a pic on.l
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on August 05, 2004, 22:31:35 pm
Andy...tried the silicone tube idea tonight and although it's definately quick, I'm not a great believer in gluing silicone, as it's a pain to keep stuck.  So tried some strip spruce and rounded it off.  I then used a Greatplanes 'Grove Tube' to cut the inside slot to replicate the hollow of the exhaust cover.  Although the cover should be 80 millimetres in length, the nacelles are not that long, so I've opted for a 50 millimetre cover, which looks good anyway.  Once I glue them on to one of the nacelles I'll put a pic on.l
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: a.mclellan on August 06, 2004, 10:22:57 am
Gordon, I used a 10mm hard plastic tube


Andy ;)
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on August 06, 2004, 22:07:01 pm
Andy...I thought by slicing a tube in 2, I could save some work!  Nevertheless, in my fleeting moments I've shaped 5 of the 8, as the 'Grove Tube' makes the job of hollowing out the spruce quite easy..about 20 minutes per cover I'd say.   O0 
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on August 07, 2004, 10:48:37 am
Finished the exhaust covers, now to fit and paint, hope they'll be finished by Monday.  O0
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Arel on August 07, 2004, 10:54:01 am
Looks like you're turning into a tinkerer Gordon :D :D

I've just had my Lancaster builds first anniversary...and I'm nowhere near to flying...I think the original took less than a year to turn from a Manchester into a Lancaster.

And they had to insert 50,000 rivets

Maybe I should subcontract my turrets out to Austin/Morris and call up Rolls Royce for my powerplants...While I do the seatbelts and parachutes.

Hmmmm....

Rich

Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on August 07, 2004, 21:32:15 pm
QuoteLooks like you're turning into a tinkerer Gordon
...wot u mean Arel, I've always been a tinkerer  O0

Wot u need to do is finish one model Arel, as u seem to have a few on the go?  I'm trying to 'tinker' with these exhaust covers as I'm expecting a Scorpio Spitfire to appear on my doorstep this week and my interest factor on the lanc will wain until I get the Spit airborne! Shouldn't take me too long to get the spit aloft, as all of the parts bar a servo are en-route.  Just got to 'tinker' with it by getting a pilot fitted and perhaps a respray (I've read that the Scorpio Spit camo is more like BBMF camo than circa 1940).....and my pilot WILL have light brown flying boots Arel  O0
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Arel on August 08, 2004, 04:56:24 am
The problem I have now is I'm at a mental block with the Lanc.

I need to do the motor mounts (plenty of spare cds lying around to get the alignment right ;)). and i need to decide how I'm going to do the tail setup. You and Craig have done it right by cutting out the fuse to make a self contained unit...I just can't bring myself to doing the same...At least when I'm sober :D

What I really need is a nice bottle of South Oz red (for medicinal purposes only of course...steadys the hands you know ;))

I couldn't help myself with the Predator, it's a beautiful laser cut kit, and no one else will have one at the club.

Rich

P.S.  Nothing wrong with BROWN old chap...plenty wrong with baby poo yellow (don't get upset-you brought up the subject)
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on August 08, 2004, 16:17:17 pm
Arel....
QuoteP.S.  Nothing wrong with BROWN old chap...plenty wrong with baby poo yellow (don't get upset-you brought up the subject)
.....if u had kids mate it's not just 'baby poo yellow' u have to worry about..it's brown!  O0

Got the exhaust covers painted this morning, so I'll try and get them fitted tonight.....it's hot here...at last!! And I'm back to work the week after next!  :'( 
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on August 08, 2004, 22:44:23 pm
Hi guys...got the exhaust covers finished and fitted, so a pic is on its way hopefully tomorrow...and not a bottle of wine in sight Arel  >:D >:D >:D   
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Arel on August 09, 2004, 08:02:57 am
Quote from: Gordon on August 08, 2004, 22:44:23 pm
Hi guys...got the exhaust covers finished and fitted, so a pic is on its way hopefully tomorrow...and not a bottle of wine in sight Arel  >:D >:D >:D   


Gordo,

Yeah I cleaned out my cellar too...  ;) :D :D

Now that you've got exhausts....you'll need to discover the joys of weathering :)

I won't get too technical, that book we both have should show some nice exhaust trails around the nacelles and over the wings(although, not being wartime the engines are probably being babied a bit, and probably aren't being tuned as "hard"). Apparently, the Merlins were run quite lean and left a greyish/little bit of brown exhaust stain that got markedly lighter at the edges.

Oops getting all anoraky again ;) :D :D

Rich
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: a.mclellan on August 09, 2004, 17:13:35 pm
Barry,  ran the set up test, motors were pulling 40 to 45 amps I believe( feel free to had some precise data here Bill), Esc got very hot and battery pack ran for about two minutes. Not very conclusive. Other than some one's battery pack was crap. ;D

Thats All Folks ;D

Regards
Andy
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: swarfmaker on August 09, 2004, 19:52:33 pm

HI  Andy
     Like you say not conclusive, did you have a fan on the  esc.Still if it ran for 2mins , thats
  longer than the test flight was,and if it got that hot the thermal trip should have come in.
  Mabe it got even hotter in the bomb bay.Was it a total loss of control or just the motors,from
100ft you should have been able to bring it down cos they are so stable so long as you have power or no power its the bit in between were the **** hits the fan,GIVEN A STRONG WIND MINE FLEW BACKWARDS.thats how stable they can be. [thats at 4 1/2 lbs]
                     KEEP AT IT, IT'S WORTH IT IN THE END

                                                   Barry
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on August 09, 2004, 22:51:38 pm
As promised my 'new' exhaust dodahs are eeer!  8)

(http://rcmf.co.uk/old-uploads/Newexhaustcoversn1.JPG)

(http://rcmf.co.uk/old-uploads/Halfviewofnnewnexhaustcoversn1.JPG)
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: a.mclellan on August 10, 2004, 10:15:12 am
Hay Gordon, that looks the biss, when is the big day I can't wait to see the photos of her in the air where she belongs. Roy would be a happy man seeing that.


Regards
Andy O0
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on August 10, 2004, 19:17:59 pm
Andy...my flying license has been revoked by SWMBO until after the local model fair in November.  After that I'll need landing lights if I fly her up here in the highlands this year  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Arel on August 13, 2004, 12:32:34 pm
Why can't you fly by the "Northern Lights" Gordo? ??? :D
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on August 13, 2004, 19:14:02 pm
QuoteWhy can't you fly by the "Northern Lights" Gordo?
....oh very drole Arel ;D   To fly in the product of elecromagnetic radiation being drawn to the earths poles wouldn't be very conducive to your radio frequency now would it?  ??? ???
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on August 14, 2004, 00:37:11 am
Here's my new weight saving mod Arel....gonna be a sod in pitch though  >:D  After 2 mods my elevators now work as advertised!  NOW she's a flier!  ^-^ ^-^  Finished AT LAST and just in time before the Spitfire is delivered!  O0 O0

Oi Arel, had any ants around your parts lately?   >:D >:D >:D

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on August 18, 2004, 21:26:33 pm
Phew...finished the lanc just in time!  GOT MY SPIT TODAY  O0 O0 O0
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: a.mclellan on August 19, 2004, 10:15:20 am
Gordon, I was getting worried about you and all that bad weather. it wont be a spit your be flying but wellinghton's  ;D
Any way whats the verdict on scorpio.

Take care and keep dry.


Andy O0
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on August 19, 2004, 12:21:43 pm
QuoteAny way whats the verdict on scorpio.
..........A lanc it ain't  ;)  I haven't started building it yet, but it looks staight-forward enough with a good sequence of manufacture.  You really get what u pay for I'd say.  Incidentally, on the E-Zone one guy mentioned that the overseas manufacturer of the Ripmax Spit has gone bust, so Ripmax won't be supplying it for a loooong while yet!  ;)
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: a.mclellan on August 19, 2004, 15:15:04 pm
Well let me know if you think the quality is ok as I will be looking next month at buying the mossie.


regards
Andy :)
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Dek on August 19, 2004, 17:27:32 pm
Hi All

Just dropped by to see how you are all getting on. Photos looked absolutely beautiful Gordon.
My Lanc is now FINISHED!!
I did some taxi tests in the back garden at the weekend and so far so good.
Now for the difficult bit..........

Derek
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on August 19, 2004, 21:49:46 pm
Dek, Hi..thought u had retired!  >:D >:D

QuotePhotos looked absolutely beautiful Gordon.
....megga thanks for the compliment.  ;)

QuoteI did some taxi tests in the back garden at the weekend and so far so good.Now for the difficult bit..........
........ u are still ahead of me as I've not done any taxi tests and to be fair, I think I need to get my undercarriage pins back into the forge to harden them, as they seem a little too malleable for my liking.  O0

How about some pics??????????????????????????????  ;)
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: CraigO on August 20, 2004, 02:17:08 am
well i havent posted for a while so here i am again

flew my lanc one and a half times last weekend.  first flight was a charm, the second not so. 

a cell in the pack died at the end of my first circuit, after i got the wheels up and with only 30 feet of height.  but .... got it in ok

No damage, even a good landing.

cheers

CO


Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on August 20, 2004, 10:55:38 am
Craig.....
QuoteNo damage, even a good landing.
.......phew!  a salutry point for us modellers....take a look at the 'scale modelling' thread entitled 'sad news'......that REALLY would cripple me!  :'(
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Dek on August 21, 2004, 10:02:18 am
Quote from: Gordon on August 19, 2004, 21:49:46 pm
Dek, Hi..thought u had retired!  >:D >:D

....... I wish!!! unfortunately earning a crust still gets in the way of the important business.
What is the size limit for pictures on this site?

Derek
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Arel on August 21, 2004, 12:33:36 pm
Derek,

Pic size limit is 20k if you attach them to your post....or 50k if you upload them to the gallery, then link them to the post.

Click on "Image Uploads" button to start :)

Rich
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on August 21, 2004, 20:48:03 pm
Hi Guys...are we gonna get a Dek pic methinks?  O0

My little Spit arrived 2 days ago, so been building that at home VERY slowly, as the servos, Rx etc  etc are on their way from Inwoods and Galaxy Models.  Lunchtimes have been used for sketching some ideas for the lancs stand.  I'm of the idea that the cradle for the fuselage will have a 30 degree sloping edge on the bottom and the detachable stand will fit on with dowels.  That way I can use the cradle on workbench at the field and then you can fit it to the lower stand with dowels to get a similar efffect like the old Airfix stands; in that you could 'bank' your models in a flight atitude!  Don't remember Airfix stands?  Oh really  ;D
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Arel on August 22, 2004, 05:23:35 am
I remember chopping the prop off my Airfix dog fight double kits and replacing it with a disk of clear plastic (with a couple of painted squiggles to mimic a spinning prop)...TAKATAKATAKATAKA  :D :D :D

AH...the good old days just get better and better.... :)

I'm trying to work out how to fit one of my rc cars servo savers to my tailwheel setup...methinks this is a good time to open a bottle

Rich

Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on August 22, 2004, 21:47:07 pm
QuoteI remember chopping the prop off my Airfix dog fight double kits and replacing it with a disk of clear plastic (with a couple of painted squiggles to mimic a spinning prop)...TAKATAKATAKATAKA
...............I did that too!!!!  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Got 4 hours in on the Spit...have I mentioned that I now HATE foamies!  >:D
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on August 23, 2004, 22:56:57 pm
Hi anyone?  Where IS everyone these days?  Walts?  BD?  NPJ?  SM? TM? et al. 

Well, I got started on my combined lanc display / work stand at work over lunchtime and first fit at home on the model was a tage tight, but a slight pass on the bandsaw tomorrow should get the fit just right.  As this stand will take up some space I'm going to make it easy for dismantling, so dowel joints are the name of the game!  ;)  I'll put a pic or 2 on the thread once the hard work is done!  O0 
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: BalsaDust on August 24, 2004, 09:07:46 am
Hi Gordon,
still here ! ...... just so busy flying ! O0

Model looks great by the way .....

I was wondering the other day how many Lancs have appeared on this thread and how many have flown. There also sadly seem to be a few that have been crashed .....

Perhaps we should have a roll call !

I'm preparing for our annual display which we run to help raise funds for the RAFA. We have a week of various events on the island, which include a FREE full size air display (see http://www.jerseyairdisplay.org.uk/welcome.shtml) Our club display is the last event during that week .....

regards
BalsaDust
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Dek on August 24, 2004, 10:49:34 am
Quote from: Gordon on August 21, 2004, 20:48:03 pm
Hi Guys...are we gonna get a Dek pic methinks?  O0


Well, here she is, waiting patiently now for her first mission!
(http://rcmf.co.uk/old-uploads/Offley_Belle.jpg)

Derek
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on August 24, 2004, 12:48:40 pm
Hi guys...........Dek that looks terrific, a real peace of a finish, nice one!  Ok, where did you get those 3 bladed props?  I fancy fitting a set for the model show, as they look terrific!  Are u going to fly with them fitted?  What size are they? Questions Questions  >:D >:D >:D

Quotestill here ! ...... just so busy flying !
....don't rub it in BD  ;D ;D ;D ;D

Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Dek on August 24, 2004, 14:46:39 pm
(http://rcmf.co.uk/old-uploads/shed3a.jpg)

Here's Offley Belle and yours truly in the shed.

Gordon .... The three bladed props are 8 x 6 same as the two bladers that it will fly with. I can't remember where I got them from but I remember saying to someone on the phone "what are the cheapest three bladed props you've got" and these were the result!

Derek
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on August 24, 2004, 21:48:48 pm
The man in his shed!  Any more pics Dek...of the lanc!  ;D ;D  She looks great and only one question tonight...did u make your own spinners for the 3 bladers?

Good progress on my stand, but since putting the prototype together an obvious change will make it much stronger with little increase in weight, so recutting it tomorrow.  Checked the fit with the fuselage tonight and it's much better, so one hurdle crossed.  O0

All my servos and Rx arrived today for my Spit, so the Highland BBMF takes another small step forward.  ;D
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Arel on August 25, 2004, 00:41:51 am
Derek,

Ditto to Gordon's comment. Lovely work.

Rich
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Dek on August 25, 2004, 07:28:38 am
Hi Guys

Thanks for the encouraging comments!
I bought a second set of canopies, spinners etc from Nexus. Originally because I screwed up the rear turret. In fact I had three shots at the rear turret and TomF (the originator of this thread) gave me a spare he had after repairs to the nose of his Lanc.

Derek
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on August 25, 2004, 12:41:03 pm
So I'd better make my own then  :'( :'( :'( :'(
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on August 25, 2004, 21:20:02 pm
Hi Chaps.....now that the top half of the stand is nearly finished, the lower half becons!  The last of my Spitfire bits arrived today from Galaxy models...not bad 3 days from order to arrival from Ipswich to the Scottlish Highlands; Inwoods took 2 days, sorry Galaxy!  O0

I'd better order some 8x6 3-bladers then Dek! (by the way BG has put your lanc pic on the E-Zone...global fame at last!  ;D
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Dek on August 26, 2004, 15:54:14 pm
Quote from: Gordon on August 25, 2004, 21:20:02 pm
by the way BG has put your lanc pic on the E-Zone...global fame at last!  ;D


e-zone? BG? how can I see it and bask in the glory?

Derek
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on August 26, 2004, 22:15:22 pm
Quotee-zone? BG? how can I see it and bask in the glory?   
....Dek, try www.rcgroups.com/forums/ then click on 'electric scale modelling' and look for the thread 'Priory Lanc'...enjoy and bask!  O0
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on August 27, 2004, 21:31:03 pm
Well got my stand nearly finished today, just the base to build.  Pics to follow.

The stand just rests on the workmate with the 20 degree crank underneath.

(http://rcmf.co.uk/old-uploads/ModelStandprototypen3.JPG)

(http://rcmf.co.uk/old-uploads/ModelStandprototypen1.JPG)

(http://rcmf.co.uk/old-uploads/ModelStandprototypen2.JPG)

Oooooppps wrong thread, but with a simple change of shape to the foam holders, it can show off any model  >:D >:D >:D

(http://rcmf.co.uk/old-uploads/Oksoitnsnotthelancnn1.JPG)

Dek...checked out the price of those 8x6 3-bladers and they come in around £5.50 each....ouch!  >:D  Anything close to what u paid?
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Bomberguy on August 27, 2004, 23:42:32 pm
QuoteThey managed to tap into the auxiliary fuel and after a flight which would have broken all endurance records of the time they landed safely on the beach of a small island. The plane and the sole surviving crew member were discovered by natural history photographer John Clark in 1973. Navigator Henry Cottle was pleased to hear that we had won the war but declined the offer of a return to England as he had become a living god to the people of the tropical island and felt his duty was to remain with them. Clark reported that he appeared to be in good spirits as he was led away by a group of dusky maidens.


Derek, just in case anyone wants to dispute your "Offley Belle" story,
Navigator Henry Cottle I presume ^-^


(http://rcmf.co.uk/old-uploads/offleybeach.jpg)
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Dek on August 28, 2004, 08:24:57 am
Gordon
I think my three bladers were about £3.00. I'll try to find the source.

BG
I never knew old Henry played the Banjo!

Here's my transport box. Made out of corrugated cardboard. Simple but effective. The fus is held in place with foam pads and two velcro straps
(http://rcmf.co.uk/old-uploads/Box-4a.jpg)

Derek
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Arel on August 28, 2004, 09:27:33 am
Geez guys...

I thought I might be getting close to "end game" or maybe "final rubber" (for the badminton set ;) :D)

But 20 degree stands and transport boxes have added a whole new dimension to this game

I give up...and will go back to my "standard build" :D :D

Rich
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on August 28, 2004, 11:37:49 am
Dek..that looks HORRIBLY simple and effective.....think i might try that!  ^-^  Thanks for chasing up the source of your props, as £5.50 each does seem a tage pricey!

U see Arel, it's not over until the fat lady sings...now where is my mother-in-law this weekend?  ^-^ ^-^ ^-^

BG......I think the state of 'offley belle' once it smacked into a RCAF meteor in a mid-air collision is more to the grim truth......and that pic looks doctored!   >:D >:D >:D
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Bomberguy on August 28, 2004, 21:04:19 pm
QuoteBG
I never knew old Henry played the Banjo!


Didn't you know, he was famous before the war ;)
(http://rcmf.co.uk/old-uploads/HENRY.jpg
)

Here is the latest member of my Lanc crew
(http://rcmf.co.uk/old-uploads/PDR_0393sm.jpg)

QuoteBG......I think the state of 'offley belle' once it smacked into a RCAF meteor in a mid-air collision is more to the grim truth......and that pic looks doctored!     


Gordon, I don't have a clue how to "Doctor" photographs ;D
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on August 29, 2004, 02:02:58 am
What I mean BG is that the photo lacks perspective....by the way your crew look really superb, awsome work  ^-^
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Arel on August 29, 2004, 09:59:19 am
Ed,

You should get a job with the publishers of "News Of The World"...Dek could be the "feature" writer...and you can supply the "exclusive" pics...what a team you guys would make ;) :D :D :D

Talking of "News Of The World"...I remember back in '88 I read an "exclusive" in said fishwrapper, about a WWII four engine bomber being found on the moon...I can't remember what plane it was...but I'm looking into the story...hopefully it was a Lanc. If so, I will model mine on that plane

Rich

P.S. Nice work on the turret

P.P.S Gordo....For added impact you *could* make your stand pivot on both axies.....Then fit a couple of BIG sailwinch servos to the mount...No No don't just say Bl***y Arel's on the turps again (you'd be right though ;))....Then you could perform the "corkscrew" manoever for anyone who isn't impressed by a static model.
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: ARTF on August 29, 2004, 10:50:05 am
Ahem..

(http://rcmf.co.uk/old-uploads/gfmb.jpg)

Will :D
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on August 29, 2004, 15:30:03 pm
Thanks Will...thought that stuff had been doctored!  >:D >:D >:D

QuoteFor added impact you *could* make your stand pivot on both axies.....Then fit a couple of BIG sailwinch servos to the mount...No No don't just say Bl***y Arel's on the turps again (you'd be right though )....Then you could perform the "corkscrew" manoever for anyone who isn't impressed by a static model.
..........I'll get right onto it Arel  O0
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Bomberguy on August 29, 2004, 16:38:55 pm
QuoteTalking of "News Of The World"...I remember back in '88 I read an "exclusive" in said fishwrapper, about a WWII four engine bomber being found on the moon...I can't remember what plane it was...but I'm looking into the story...hopefully it was a Lanc. If so, I will model mine on that plane

Rich


Rich, I found this - It was a Lancaster, I wish I could find the photo!

It is now some years since the Daily Sport, a paper not frequently quoted in the Weekly Worker, ran the headline `World War II bomber found on moon! This startling intelligence was supported with a photograph, quite clearly showing a Lancaster bomber silhouetted against the lunar surface.

At the time, the story seemed to catch the popular imagination - though it is perhaps fair to say that, in general, the population remained sceptical. The Sport was not to be beaten, though, and had the last laugh when it breathlessly published the follow-up piece some weeks later: `World War II bomber missing from moon! The story was supported by a second photograph: this time simply of the moon.

Will, where on earth did you find that doctored poster? ;D
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: ARTF on August 29, 2004, 17:00:06 pm
Quote from: Bomberguy on August 29, 2004, 16:38:55 pm
Will, where on earth did you find that doctored poster? ;D


Via the gift of google, you shouldn't have left the song names legible..

Will 8)
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Dek on August 29, 2004, 19:07:53 pm
Guys
I can't tell you how saddened I am by the disbelief expressed on this site. Having taken the trouble to research and publish the story of the Offley Belle backed up so graphically by BG (a photo cannot lie) and then having to listen to the doubters and naysayers who try to bracket the story with the Sunday Sport. A paper who's Idea of truth lies only in big wossnames on young fuselages. Henry Cottle may have been a very poor navigator but he was a true hero and a fine banjo player.
I shall retire to my shed.

Farewell!

Dek
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on August 29, 2004, 21:01:12 pm
QuoteI shall retire to my shed.
...oh it'd a shed now is it on the UK thread and a hanger on the E-zone? 

Regards,

a
Quotenaysayer
................. 8) 8) 8) 8)

Hope to finish my stand this week!  >:D
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Dek on August 30, 2004, 08:11:58 am
Quote from: Gordon on August 29, 2004, 21:01:12 pm
QuoteI shall retire to my shed.
...oh it'd a shed now is it on the UK thread and a hanger on the E-zone? 



You have to think big when talking to the cousins across the pond.


Dek
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on August 30, 2004, 09:56:06 am
Actually Dek, when I was in the RAF, the term hanger was frequently dumped for the term shed  O0
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on September 01, 2004, 23:55:58 pm
Here's my final setup with the stand..now to spray it..excuse the artistic license with the bomber outline!  ;D

(http://rcmf.co.uk/old-uploads/ModelStandprototypen1A.JPG)

(http://rcmf.co.uk/old-uploads/ModelStandprototypen1A1.JPG)
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: CraigO on September 02, 2004, 00:15:13 am
Gordon stop sodding around with the lanc stand and finish your spit!

that said it is a real piece of artwork :) and you should be proud of it. 

any updates onthe number of lancs flying from this thread.  mine certainly is although i did have a battery fritz itself in my last sortie.  full power climbing away to nothing in that long was a bit of a surprise.  but got the wheels down and landed with no damage!

Cheers
Craig 
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: CraigO on September 02, 2004, 00:15:44 am
and By the way the mossie is nearly done!

Craig
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Bomberguy on September 02, 2004, 01:45:48 am
Pretty cool Gordon. I'm surprized you didn't have the little bomber dropping bombs ;)
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on September 02, 2004, 09:52:56 am
QuoteGordon stop sodding around with the lanc stand and finish your spit! 
....rodger dodger Craig!  ;)

QuoteI'm surprized you didn't have the little bomber dropping bombs 
...now there's an idea BG  ;D ;D

Quoteany updates onthe number of lancs flying from this thread.
...good point Craig, as we don't even seem to have any who are considering buying the kit coming onto either the Priory lanc E-Zone site or here  :(

Craig, have u had a look at the Flair mossie in the scale thread....looks nice.

Dek...any sign of those cheepo 3-bladers yet?
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: BalsaDust on September 02, 2004, 15:38:08 pm
Hi guys,
the Jersey Lanc has just passed its 1st anniversary with around 20 flights under the canopy .... Still going strong. No signs of any nasty flying habits, only it does have to be flown all the way down to the ground on landing - once your used to that its a dream to fly  ;)

regards
BalsaDust
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on September 02, 2004, 23:52:17 pm
BD...guru, how are u; how's the castle?  Good to know the lanc is doing fine after that hairy take off in the hurricane!!   O0  Got my invite to the local model fair thru the post today, so when they ask what I'm to exibit...well it's the lanc flying over it's home base of course!  >:D  Me and my daughter will be making up the diorama countryside with papier mache and some small aircraft, houses etc....that'll keep us happy over the October holidays!  ::)

Craig...2 hours on the Spit tonight and got the control runs and servos fitted...gawd, it's an easy model to build, sort of a R/C airfix kit  >:D
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: CraigO on September 03, 2004, 00:16:44 am
yes but is it as much fun as building a beautiful lanc from scratch.

I think ARF models take a lot of the fun out of it.  but then again i am a builder more than a flyer. :)

cheers

Craig
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on September 03, 2004, 00:33:07 am
Craig....
Quoteyes but is it as much fun as building a beautiful lanc from scratch.  I think ARF models take a lot of the fun out of it.  but then again i am a builder more than a flyer.
.....Isn't a fraction of the fun of building the lanc, but for something to fly that's going to look good and 'keep my eye in' over the winter months then u can't really fault it.  As I can nip down to the field in about 5 minutes, fly for about 20 minutes and have a cup of tea while it recharges, then it's fine to land in the long grass to the side of the field (hate to see Spits flying with their legs down), so I'll hand launch it instead.  I'll be fun, but for sheer joy (and trepidation), the lanc won't be beaten when she flies next year.

Just been reading about the exploits of the lanc named 'Phantom of the Rhur'.....seems it returned from a raid with anhedral wings after trying to evade searchlights that had coned it.  Awesome stuff  O0
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Dek on September 04, 2004, 16:50:26 pm
Quote from: Gordon on September 02, 2004, 09:52:56 am

Dek...any sign of those cheepo 3-bladers yet?


Hi Gordon, if you send me an IM with your address you can have mine. I don't think I'll need them again.
(http://rcmf.co.uk/old-uploads/Belle3a.jpg)
(http://rcmf.co.uk/old-uploads/Belle2a.jpg)

Dek
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Bomberguy on September 04, 2004, 18:49:18 pm
Derek,  :'( :'( :'( :( :(

Quite a shock when I opened this post :o

It looks salvageable from the photos, hopefully you will consider rebuilding it. I have salvaged worse planes after thinking about it for a while.

What is the report, equipment failure??

Anyway, my condolances

Ed
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Dek on September 04, 2004, 20:21:50 pm
Thanks Ed
I think it was just overweight and underpowered. It looked great for about 30 seconds in the air and then tip stalled in a turn and piled in. It looks even worse in real life than in the pics, also it's bound to be even heavier after a re-build so into the great bin in the sky she has gone. I got a lot of pleasure out of the build (and the Offley Belle story of course) but fancy something different so I'm moving on to the next project.

Derek
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on September 04, 2004, 21:20:35 pm
Dek...I am so so, so sorry to see such a beautiful model end up that way  :'( :'(  It's got me seriously thinking as mine is 8 ounces heavier than BDs...what weight was yours?  I have to echo what BG said...don't bin her...take a deep breath and walk away for a while, then come back and see if she can be fixed.  From the pics, the front end is obviously the work area and the port wing too, but the aft end and starboard mainplane look virtually untouched?  If u are worried about the weight, remember that BD has just posted that he's flown loads of times and he is flying around at 6.5lbs?     

QuoteI have salvaged worse planes after thinking about it for a while.
....as BG said, think about it Dek  O0 

QuoteHi Gordon, if you send me an IM with your address you can have mine. I don't think I'll need them again.
...I'll do that only after you've thought it over Dek  ;)

On a lighter note...Craig, I'm modifying the Spit to have a removable wing, but should be ready for a maiden in about 2 weeks....a little sooner than your terrific mossie build  8)
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Arel on September 05, 2004, 05:15:56 am
Dek,

Oh dear! :o :'(

Bad luck mate...please don't toss it...put it away for a while, you might change your mind in a year or so

Rich
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Dek on September 05, 2004, 19:51:39 pm
Hi Guys
The Captain and copilot survived intact and now sit side by side in a Puppeteer. Not very scale but pretty cute. Rear gunner and centre gunner also survived but the bombadier and front gunner were reduced to body parts!

Gordon,
The 3 bladed props will be winging their way to you tomorrow and the cost to you is that you have to agree that Henry Cottle was a hero.
Offley Belle weighed in at just under 7 lbs with the battery. The runway was grass and too short. Off tarmac or with more space to climb out before the turn it would have been ok.

Thanks for all the concern, it really helped.
regards
Derek
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on September 05, 2004, 21:03:27 pm
Dek.....
QuoteHenry Cottle was a hero
.................naturally!  >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: BalsaDust on September 05, 2004, 22:34:13 pm
Hi guys,
really sad to see a such super model bite the dust. Don't bin it Dek - at the very least rebuild it for static display. As BG mentioned I've seen worse damage repaired ....

Mine's flying at around 6lbs 12oz .... I do have the advantage of a tarmac runway to use, but the model seems equally happy getting airborne from a rolled hoggin strip ......

regards
balsadust
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: CraigO on September 06, 2004, 01:04:40 am
Really sorry to see such a beautiful model go in like that.   sounds like our appeals might be too late but it is amazing how much more repairable something looks after a break.

I was going to say i got another 6 flights on the weekend from a sheep paddock with a bunch of free flight enthusiasts.  really great reception from all of them.

Craig
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on September 06, 2004, 10:08:30 am
Craig....sheep paddock?  wot's going on there?  >:D >:D >:D  Wellies should be for maidens only surely?   >:D >:D
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on September 06, 2004, 16:30:43 pm
guys, there's a 8.5 foot lanc for sale on e-bay...guy wants £215, but latest bid is for £90...here's the link http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=19164&item=5918216121&rd=1

It's big!   O0

PS...bidding ends around 6pm.
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: a.mclellan on September 06, 2004, 17:08:54 pm
Quote from: Gordon on September 06, 2004, 16:30:43 pm
guys, there's a 8.5 foot lanc for sale on e-bay...guy wants £215, but latest bid is for £90...here's the link http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=19164&item=5918216121&rd=1

It's big!   O0

PS...bidding ends around 6pm.


No Gordon you have got that wrong, My last bid was up to £ 210 but I have been outbided so the price shown is £5 higher than my last bid.It means that someone is prepared to go higher.
It has got to be picked up from Gloucester.

Regards
Andy O0
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: a.mclellan on September 06, 2004, 17:25:06 pm
Sorry to see your Lanc had crashed Dek,reading what you said it seemed to have the same fate as my own.

Regards
Andy :'(
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: a.mclellan on September 06, 2004, 19:00:56 pm
Hi Gorden, what a lucky chap he got the lanc for £ 215 what a bargain.


Andy :)
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on September 06, 2004, 21:08:21 pm
QuoteHi Gorden, what a lucky chap he got the lanc for £ 215 what a bargain.
.....indeed  >:D  My garage isn't big enough though!  Cheapskate...fixed u/c???  gotta be retracts surely?
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: CraigO on September 07, 2004, 00:51:19 am
Gordon

went to a fabulous free flight event on the weekend where they also allow a few RC electrics.  I took my Lanc, ME 163 and hurricane.  The event is held on a property about 50 Kms outside of Adelaide and the owners shifts his flocks onto other padocks and we are not allowed to fly in the seeded fields.  So we use a large sandy field that is normall left for the sheep cos the furrows are a real pain to land on :)
anyway i got about 6 flights in on the lanc and everyone was impressed.  I was getting about 7 minutes of good flying from the 10x2400 pack.  my only problem was trying to take off and land from the only pacth of ground that was even remotely useable, which was the path that we had all driven our cars in on.
those fre flight guys are amazing.  they produce absolutely sensational scale models start them up and heave them into the air,  only to seem them crash into the ground and fly into 100 pieces.  then they smile, put them together again and throw them again :)

cheers all

Craig
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on September 07, 2004, 12:49:21 pm
Quoteonly to seem them crash into the ground and fly into 100 pieces.  then they smile, put them together again and throw them again
.....sounds like my R/C flying technique has arrived in Oz then?   ;D  So the lanc is flying, so where's the pics Craig?  ;)

Got all of my bits ready for the stand, so I'll be sprayed in the next few days. 
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: a.mclellan on September 07, 2004, 13:00:01 pm
Thanks Gordon I have found it at last

regards
Andy ;D ;D
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on September 07, 2004, 13:24:23 pm
Well guys I went and done it...I ordered the 79" Halifax IV plan from Nexus!   O0
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Grahamd on September 07, 2004, 13:32:33 pm
Quote from: Gordon on September 07, 2004, 13:24:23 pm
Well guys I went and done it...I ordered the 79" Halifax IV plan from Nexus!   O0


I've already got the original plan article/magazine in scan format if you want it ?
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on September 07, 2004, 15:44:33 pm
QuoteI've already got the original plan article/magazine in scan format if you want it ?
....is it downloadable Graham, or do u want my address?

Yours grovellingly

Gordon (closet Hallibag lover).

PS.....the plan is for 4x0.15, I was thinking 4x600 electric?  Anybody want to shoot me down on this one?  >:D
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Dek on September 08, 2004, 08:38:17 am
Hi Gordon
Props and spinners went into the post yesterday. Enjoy O0
Derek
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Grahamd on September 08, 2004, 09:26:21 am
Quote from: Gordon on September 07, 2004, 15:44:33 pm
QuoteI've already got the original plan article/magazine in scan format if you want it ?
....is it downloadable Graham, or do u want my address?

Yours grovellingly

Gordon (closet Hallibag lover).

PS.....the plan is for 4x0.15, I was thinking 4x600 electric?  Anybody want to shoot me down on this one?  >:D


send me an email via my profile and I will send them too you.
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on September 08, 2004, 12:48:18 pm
Quotesend me an email via my profile and I will send them too you.
....done!  O0
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on September 08, 2004, 23:46:44 pm
Dek...terrific props and spinners and smashing paint job!...only a day to arrive from Hitchin to Elgin and people take the mick out of the post office? 

By the end of this evening I've already modified the props to fit my lanc.  I've glued a couple of 2BA washers into each centre to narrow the hole and allow my '2-blader' cheese headed screws to work. 
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: a.mclellan on September 09, 2004, 12:43:00 pm
Time for another picture I think Gorden,  O0

Were is your model show and when did you say it was.

Andy :)
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on September 09, 2004, 16:26:33 pm
QuoteTime for another picture I think Gorden,
.....yup, in a day or so once I get the lanc assembled at the weekend.  SWMBO is off to England tomorrow, so should get lots of modelling done!  O0  Our model fair (I think) is on the 27/28 November at Elgin Town Hall.  It's run by the Elgin Model Railway Club, but there is a really good mix of aero and plastic modelling etc. 
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on September 11, 2004, 09:43:56 am
QuoteOur model fair (I think) is on the 27/28 November at Elgin Town Hall
...thought wrong, it's the previous weekend!  Got the stand and 3-bladers sprayed...Dek, the props look superb fitted on the nacelles!  Hope to pic the completed stand & props etc today!   


P.S.  Wah.....dropped the stand...pics tomorrow  >:D
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: CraigO on September 13, 2004, 03:22:38 am
Gordon

I have just bought a cople of lovely little devices from a mob inthe UK called DAWNMIST.  Essentially they replace your receiver battery by separately drawing power from the main pack and turning it into something suitable for driving the servos etc,  and it will cope with up to 7 amps draw and it only weighs about 20 Gms.    if you are still running a receiver pack then have a look at their website.  www.dawnmist.demon.co.uk  all the details are there

I bought one for the mossie cos it has 5 servos and 2 esc's running off 2 packs.  I tell you it is a wiring nightmare. i also bought a copule of their lithimon gargets to make sure i dont over drain the LiPolys.

Craig
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on September 13, 2004, 13:09:24 pm
Graham.....got my Hallibag e-mails anfd the stuff looks great, megga thanks my man!  O0

Craig....that last bit on the Dawnmist got me thinking about Andy's crash.  As the ESC (a Jeti 35A in my case), only has a recommended number of servos that can be tapped of off it (as I write this away from home just now I think it was 4 for my ESC), could your gismo have helped Andy's lanc, as he complained of twitchy servos?  :-X  At 20g even my Atkins diet lanc could use it....mmm interesting stuff Craig.  O0

Craig...just read that stuff..got me sold on it...how did u find a site that sells R/C electronic gear AND clay pipes?  It's the weirdest site I've been on bar none  >:D
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Grahamd on September 13, 2004, 13:41:41 pm
Glad you got them ok Gordon, I look forward to seeing a Halifax, will make a change from Lancs
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: CraigO on September 14, 2004, 00:34:06 am
Gordon

you arent kidding there, perhaps that site would be good for andy,  I think they offered griaf counselling as well :)  sorry cruel joke.  I agree the wierdest site i have seen but they were very very helpful and very fast.  I got my parts in a week from the UK to OZ!

I was reading something else recently where there was a comment about long servo leads.   the comment was that a servo lead close to the length of the aerial or greater can easily introduce problems with reception, even resulting in lockout.    their reccomendation was for any lead that approaches that length a choke should be addded into the lead and all leads should be twisted.

I think the comment came from an article in RC scale international. 

I am not making progress on the Mossie at the moment,  some major problems at home,  my wife an I were expecting our first baby but unfortunately arent any more,  so my drive for my hobby is at a very low ebb while my wife and i come to terms with what has happened. 

cheers all

Craig
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on September 14, 2004, 12:17:08 pm
Craig, sorry to hear of your sad news, not much anyone can say at this time other than time is the only healer really. 

I note all u say re the servo wire lengths and it sounds technically correct, although electronics isn't my major discipline.  I'm not convinced that twisting the wires would help, as I think the length would be the crucial factor in sympathetic pickup of RF.  Any electronic buffs out there?

I was so impressed with the ESC arguement Craig I bought one of those gismos yesterday...I wonder if I'll get a free joycstick with it?  >:D
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on September 14, 2004, 22:29:50 pm
Huglee thanks for your input, as for the lanc it's far too late for me to worry about it since it's panelled up and finished!  >:D

Oh, here's the lanc with the late but not forgotten 'Offley Belles' 3-bladers sprayed and fitted and with the exhaust covers fitted too.

(http://rcmf.co.uk/old-uploads/Finished3-bladerlancandstandn2.JPG)

(http://rcmf.co.uk/old-uploads/Finished3-bladerlancandstandn4.JPG)
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: CraigO on September 15, 2004, 01:16:53 am
Looks great Gordon

and thanks to all for your good wishes

Craig
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Dek on September 15, 2004, 10:04:53 am
Hi All
Very nice wine Gordon!

At our open day last week (when my Lanc should have been flying) Barry from 'Mainly Models' in Hitchin, flew his lovely 100" Lanc. It's all foam and he's now selling kits. I'm tempted.
(http://rcmf.co.uk/old-uploads/BarrynsLanc1small.jpg)

(http://rcmf.co.uk/old-uploads/BarrynsLanc2.jpeg)

and in the distance it's doing a slow roll !

(http://rcmf.co.uk/old-uploads/BarrynsLanc3.jpeg)

Derek
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Dek on September 15, 2004, 10:07:37 am
P.S.

My Lanc pilot and co pilot got a ride at the open day after all.

(http://rcmf.co.uk/old-uploads/CrewinPup.jpeg)

Derek
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: a.mclellan on September 15, 2004, 12:51:26 pm
graig, sorry about you news mat.  :-[

Gordon, Lancs looking good.

My Brotherinlaw has picked up a lanc for me that has been built but just needs to be covered. I wont see it till I return from my holls at the end of the month, so I will let you know what its like then.


Regards
Andy
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: a.mclellan on September 15, 2004, 14:13:15 pm
Quote from: CraigO on September 14, 2004, 00:34:06 am
Gordon

you arent kidding there, perhaps that site would be good for andy,  I think they offered griaf counselling as well :)  sorry cruel joke.  I agree the wierdest site i have seen but they were very very helpful and very fast.  I got my parts in a week from the UK to OZ!

I was reading something else recently where there was a comment about long servo leads.   the comment was that a servo lead close to the length of the aerial or greater can easily introduce problems with reception, even resulting in lockout.    their reccomendation was for any lead that approaches that length a choke should be addded into the lead and all leads should be twisted.

I think the comment came from an article in RC scale international. 

I am not making progress on the Mossie at the moment,  some major problems at home,  my wife an I were expecting our first baby but unfortunately arent any more,  so my drive for my hobby is at a very low ebb while my wife and i come to terms with what has happened. 

cheers all

Craig

whats griaf :-\
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on September 15, 2004, 23:03:10 pm
QuoteIt's all foam and he's now selling kits. I'm tempted.
....go wan Dek, fill your boots, it looks a fantastic kit and u can talk foam with the priory thread on the E-Zone...that'll brown some of them off when they see it!  And anyway, those aircrew need a home...a biplane is just de'regeur!  ;)

Quotewhats griaf
...maybe it's grief?   > :-\

QuoteMy Brotherinlaw has picked up a lanc for me that has been built but just needs to be covered
...Andy, how are u so lucky to have in-laws like him?  ^-^
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on September 16, 2004, 23:17:52 pm
Craig, got my Dawnmist gismo this morning...2 days from Exeter to the Scottish Highlands, not bad!  ;)
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: CraigO on September 20, 2004, 01:49:38 am
Not too shabby at all.  only took 5 to OZ!

starting to do a little bit of mossie again.  pain is still very raw but the distraction helps!

Craig
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on September 20, 2004, 12:47:07 pm
Craig...I'm the same re the Spit, but hope to maiden her this weekend, as she's complete enogh to fly.  The lanc stand needed a bit of reinforcement at the front, so little work needed there now.....ho hum, I need those Halifax plans to arrive as I'm getting impatient...I need a new project!  >:D
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: CraigO on September 21, 2004, 02:53:56 am
gordon you will have to open a thread for the hallibag!

I am looking forward to seeing it progress

craig
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on September 21, 2004, 12:52:54 pm
Quotegordon you will have to open a thread for the hallibag!
...Got the same comment on the E-Zone Craig, and I will do that!  O0  I've already decided it's going to be either 'Friday the 13th" or a 78 Squadron kite, since 78 was my last squadron posting in the RAF.   :'(
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: CraigO on September 22, 2004, 00:22:17 am
I have to say that building the Lan has inspired me to build another 4 engine heavy.  I am thinking about a B-17, or perhaps a liberator. or for the pure elegance an FW condor.  that will of course be after the 6 foot Vimy that is next off the board. 

I am painting bits an pieces of the Mossie.  I have got no hope of hitting the 17th of october scale day but i will definitely make the november event!

are your fingers getting itchy yet gordon :)

Craig
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on September 22, 2004, 12:56:32 pm
Quoteare your fingers getting itchy yet gordon
...yup!  ;)  Got my course notes thru yesterday and it makes depressing reading, as it's going to hammer my free time (and 6 years of it too). 

Like the idea of a B17 Craig...I thought the early 'clean' and later 'G' variants looked good.  Have never seen a FW Condor model...says it all!  Once saw a Liberator formating on a Nimrod at RAF Kinloss back in the early 90s...the Liberator was tiny in comparison with the Nimrod (got a pic of it somewhere).  The liberator had just flown over the Atlantic for a USA reunion down in England and landed to refuel at Kinloss. 

Still waiting for my Halifax plans  >:(
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Arel on September 23, 2004, 06:41:57 am
Latest QEFI has a couple of B-17s...One is 44" for GWS motors...T'other was 80" for geared sp480's. I can get you the contact details if you're interested Craig.

Fw Condor is a seriously good looking aircraft...not enough turrets though O0

Rich
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: CraigO on September 24, 2004, 00:22:25 am
i have always loved the look of the condor.  modelled originaly on a passenger liner it was a bit light in structure to be a really tough warbird but it was used extensively in naval patrols.  the biggest problem is the undercarriage was really wierd!

cheers to all

Craig
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on September 25, 2004, 14:56:24 pm
Craig...got my Halifax plans this morning......oer, it's bigger than the lanc  >:D >:D

Apart from the transparencies, which I will have to make (ug, think I'll need to learn to use the school vaccuum machine!) it looks VERY similar to the lanc drawings.   O0 
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Arel on October 02, 2004, 01:08:44 am
Quiet round here lately... :)
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on October 03, 2004, 18:09:18 pm
QuoteQuiet round here lately...
....yup, been too busy smashin' up my foamie Spitfire this weekend  >:D >:D >:D  hope to put a couple of pics on the Scorpio Spitfire thread this evening!
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: a.mclellan on October 04, 2004, 13:06:58 pm
Hi Chaps, I am back off the hols and have picked up the  lanc, too lazy to  build again, Good old brother in law. will start to cover and fit all the gear over the winter period. I need to try and get the rudder bellcrank set up right this time as I had a problem before getting the rudders to return to center and ended up fitting a servo direct to the rudder linkage.also instead of fitting two servos in the wings for the ailerons I thought I would stick to the plan and fit one servo in the center of the wing.Hopefully keeping  the weight down this time.
Also covering , pva glue and water was used last time as this seems to be the more popular choice at my club rather than dope. The tissue is glue to the wood with watered down pva and then the tissue has water brushed on top, when dry the tissue as shrunk and is ready to paint. Do you think this would be heaver than dop, Any thoughts or opinions would be appreciated

Regards
Andy O0
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on October 04, 2004, 18:59:14 pm
Hi Andy...just been reading your witches brew (ok, so it's coming up to Halloween I know!), but why not avoid all of that mess and just use litespan?  It's about £1.40 for about a sqare yard and weighs an ounce...can't beat it?  U will need to buy some pots of balsaloc glue that is applied cold via a sponge.  Let it dry for 30 minutes then apply the litespan (shiny or dull side is your decision) by use of a trusty iron (no need for a sock on the iron, it sticks like the proverbial brown stuff to the blanket.  and to add insult to injury it takes Humbrol paints a dawdle.  My lanc was done with it, so nuff said!

PS..there's a bloke on e-bay selling a 72" lancaster for £108 with servos etc.
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: a.mclellan on October 04, 2004, 21:31:10 pm
Hi, Gordon , That lanc on e-bay is quite interesting,If this is the one, Bill emailed him last week asking him what the weight was, when we checked at the weekend he still had not replied.  :-\

As to litespan ,I have never used it so would have to purchase an iron as well, were I have already got the tissue paper.


Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on October 05, 2004, 12:47:21 pm
QuoteI have never used it so would have to purchase an iron as well,
...but with an iron u can use it for years with any type of covering and it's only a few quid (£24.99 dosh from Inwoods in my case).   

And the result is lightweight!!!!!  O0
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: SteveM on October 06, 2004, 14:24:22 pm
Hi, guys
Just checking-in on this thread - been messing-about on the Priory Lanc one and been pointed in this direction by Gordon.  Only trouble is that there are now another 50 pages to catch-up on!  There's so much good stuff buried in there, it's a question of finding it.  Yes, I too am starting a Nexus 71" Lanc.  Noticed Walts vac-formed nacelles which not only looked great but make life a lot easier.  Does anyone have a master plug for them or even market them ready made?  It's a shame that Nexus don't do them as part of the mouldings pack.  It would also have been much easier if Nexus had moulded the bomb-aimers blister integral with the fuselage under the turret, as that is also a horrendous task to build-up and sand.
Gordon, as said on the Priory thread, lovely model - if mine turns out half as good, I shall be well pleased.  I intend to turn mine into one of those B.Mk10's flown by 428 sqn RCAF.  Main difference is the mid-upper turret is further forward and of a different shape (Martin v Frazer-Nash).  Downside is that I'll have to mould it - plus side is that it doesn't have that bulky fairing around it.  Ah, it also has an H2S radome underneath, but I've got some ideas for that!  Great nose-art, as well!

Any help gratefully received

Cheers

Steve
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on October 06, 2004, 19:35:51 pm
StevieM...good to see u on the forum.  What part of the world are u writing from?  u mentioned turrets!  Have a look-see at this site, might help?

www.quinnuk.freeserve.co.uk/page5.htm

As for markings, this site is really good....got mine there!  O0  For about £12 u supply a good quality print of the decals u want.   

www.precisionmarkings.co.uk 
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: SteveM on October 07, 2004, 09:25:54 am
Hello again Gordon,
I'm from Fleet, near Farnborough, Hants - about as far away from you as you can get, unfortunately!  Your Nexus Lanc has really inspired me to get on with it.  The aircraft I was talking about is NA*S, 'Sugar's Blues' of 428 sqn RCAF.  I spent more than a year on a Tamiya plastic of this aircraft, only to scrap it at the finishing stage!  I wish I'd known about your decal man then - I got my decals done by a guy called Mike Grant in Canada.  He did a set of waterslides which turned-out beautifully - as the best bit is a beautiful pin-up on the nose, he always insists on constructing the image from scratch (no scanned photo's) so he can be a bit pricey.  I will ask him if the artwork he did for my 1/48 will stand blowing-up to 1/17.  Incidentally, if anyone else is interested in modelling this particular aircraft, see me first.  It appears in a number
of publications and is subject of a painting and commercial 1/48 decal sheet.  Trouble is they are ALL wrong with respect to colour and don't show the art on the right -hand side - I spoke to the guy who painted the original in 1945, so that's about as definitive as you can get!

On turrets, I  trust people realise that the CWH flying Lanc and the one at Duxford are both fitted with the Martin turret mounted further forward.

If I can get my head round posting pics on this forum I'll post a couple that will turn any Lancaster nuts green!

Steve
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on October 07, 2004, 12:29:11 pm
QuoteIf I can get my head round posting pics on this forum I'll post a couple that will turn any Lancaster nuts green!
....ready!  >:D
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: SteveM on October 07, 2004, 14:50:17 pm
Gordon,
Hope these pics come out alright - I think they're gonna be a bit small.

I am the one on the right and the white-haired gentleman is my uncle Ernie, who did a tour as Flight Engineer with 12 Sqn in '44/'45.
Yes, I got a flight on the BBMF Lanc in August 1995.  In-flight pic taken from the astrodome behind the cockpit.  It was on the day after she'd done the first poppy-drop over the Mall on the 50th anniversary of VJ day and the 'sortie' was to overfly Lincoln Cathedral, where a service was being conducted.  We had this Mark XlX Spitfire and a Hurricane on the other wingtip, then rendezvoused with a Harvard for some air-to air photo's.  Got some great video as well.

What can I say?  It was better than sex!

(http://www.rcmf.co.uk/uploads/coningsby5.jpg)

(http://www.rcmf.co.uk/uploads/coningsby6.jpg)

Cheers

Steve

Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on October 07, 2004, 16:19:59 pm
QuoteYes, I got a flight on the BBMF Lanc in August 1995.
....any more of this self promotion and I'm taking my ball home!   >:D
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: SteveM on October 07, 2004, 16:49:01 pm
Gordon,
Help! Don't take your ball home,  I'll need to pick your brains as work proceeds.  Any further pics will be of balsa, I promise.

Steve
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on October 08, 2004, 11:16:05 am
QuoteI'll need to pick your brains as work proceeds. 
...Ok, so what do we do after the first minute then?  ;D

Some 'notables' I've got real good gen from have been BD from Jersey (my guru!  Has flown his lanc loads of times ^-^ ), Arel and CraigO from Oz (not married just friends!  >:D ), Walts from the UK (where did he go to?), Swarfmaker (an erk who flies in and out of the thread, but full of great gen) et al...too many to mention but all of these guys know their stuff and if u can't get an answer on here it isn't worth asking!

A word of caution Stevie and one that was told to me by Tomf eons ago...watch the weight on this model, as mine tipped the scales at just under 7lbs!  She's at least 8 ounces too heavy, but as BD has flown his at 6 1/2lbs I'm not too fussed about it.  The reason was that I detailed her and detailed her....from what u are saying u come from a detailing plastic model background, so just be careful u don't build a whale!  One guy
crashed his Dauntless a few months back via the E-Zone and it was 7 lbs overweight (and the model looked fantastic).  Yup, here it is 

http://rcmf.co.uk/4um/index.php?topic=10778.0

Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: SteveM on October 08, 2004, 11:58:40 am
Gordon,
Thanks for the words of wisdom, you're dead right, I will have to hold myself back if I don't want a lump at the end.

OK, basic question for you and any of the others you mentioned who may be still on this thread.  Because of my relative inexperience (or lack of recent experience - returning after about 30 years) I tend to follow TN's plans and even his build sequence (which is on the net) pretty much to the letter.  Certainly, Gordon, you have made huge departures from the basic design (removable tail with servos, access from the top and fuselage in sections).  Is this a personal preference or are there fundamental flaws with the original as-drawn? :-\ 

I have one fuse side on the board with the frames for the parallel bit stuck down so I need to sort out soon whether I am going to make any fundamental changes.
Cheers

Steve
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: BalsaDust on October 08, 2004, 12:23:05 pm
Hi Steve,
welcome to the thread !

One thing I'd do straight away is reduce the width of the fuz formers. TomF did this I believe during his build.

My initial thoughts on seeing the plan for the first time, were that it seemed a tad over-engineered for an electric model ....

I wasn't sure about cutting back on the wood count or indeed the thickness of some of the wing stock, but went ahead anyway as per plan. I wasn't too careful with wood selection, which is probably one reason mine is a bit heavier than the 5lb target weight ...  :-[

Key thing here is careful wood selection - make sure you get the lightest you can !  ;)

Good Luck
BalsaDust
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: SteveM on October 08, 2004, 12:57:35 pm
BD,
Thanks for that, by 'width', I take it you mean you made the holes in the middle of the frames bigger?
Meanwhile, though, you were happy with the rudder/elevator control runs and servo positions?  Gordon obviously wasn't and stuck his at the back (amazing bit of mechanical engineering) and I've even seen references to people putting a servo in each wing for the ailerons.  Like I said, I get nervous about deviating from the plan!

Cheers

Steve
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: BalsaDust on October 08, 2004, 14:21:10 pm
Hi Steve,
Yup - you've got it !

re control runs, I opted to use snakes for rudder, elevator and tailwheel - all driven by their own mini servo. I also used wing servos  (metal gears) for the ailerons to keep the linkages nice & tight.

Overall quite happy with the positions of everything, only one I had trouble with was the retract servo ..... lots of fiddling to get the plumbing in the right place which can only really be done once everything is built .....

regards
BalsaDust

Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: SteveM on October 08, 2004, 14:46:23 pm
Thanks again, BD

Now I've delved back into the dark recesses of Leccy Lanc V111, I see that Gordon did a very nice blow-by-blow build article on his one, frustrating thing is that all the pictures have been removed!

I don't want to reply each time with another question, or you'll get fed-up but did i read correctly that you used a separate servo for the tailwheel?  Was that to prevent damage to that jamming the rudder?

Last question (for now), honest!

Steve
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on October 08, 2004, 14:51:28 pm
QuoteIs this a personal preference or are there fundamental flaws with the original as-drawn?  
...my only concern was the undercarriage mountings which seems a bit light for my landings!  I used 6mm ply...belt and braces maybe, but no worries on the strength.  Some guys used spruce rather than balsa for the wing stringers, but as BD (my guru u know!  >:D ) said, it's the quality of the material (which is a bit of suck-it-and-see in my case as I order all of my stuff over the web).  I found Inwoods were good and very fast and cheap for postage.  The only other change I made was fitting a piece of mahogany over the wheel bay (I'm a techie teacher so mahogany is easy to get  ::); I replaced the stringer over the bay as when the wing bends up on landing (and it will when I land mine!) that balsa stringer has no opposite stringer on the underside to help offload the stress, so I beefed it up (spruce would be very good to use).
 
BD...how are the wenches these days and is the castle wind and waterproof for the winter?

Ok, off to Strathclyde University for the weekend, so early rise at 3 a.m.  :'(  

Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on October 08, 2004, 14:54:44 pm
QuoteI don't want to reply each time with another question, or you'll get fed-up
...OH NO WE WON'T STEVE!  ;)

My rudder servo doubles as steering Steve, with the elevator mounted close by.  Pics when u want them.  ^-^

QuoteI've even seen references to people putting a servo in each wing for the ailerons.
...ahem, no prizes for guessing who did that  >:D >:D >:D

This is a great thread because people who u only know via this site go the extra mile for no reward to help u and once I get back I've dozens of pics I can upload, so just ask!
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: SteveM on October 08, 2004, 15:46:16 pm
Gordon,

Offer of pics - yes please!

Yes, I know what you mean about the undercarriage mounts.  In fact, I'm gonna have to rethink that whole area, cos I've ordered a set of custom retracts from Unitracts which have the hinged drag braces a bit like the real thing (modified Mosquito I believe), so there's going to have to be an additional mounting point towards the back of the nacelle.  Might have to extend the ply nacelle sides further back.  What was I saying earlier about keeping to the original plans...?  I try not to think about the obstacles ahead, I'm living one day at a time!

Amen to what you say about the helpfulness of people on this site.

Cheers

Steve
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on October 08, 2004, 19:42:29 pm
Stevie, here's a pic of the centre section with the mahogany replacement bits on the left and right.  The spaghetti setup BD was talking about is evident!  >:D

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Arel on October 10, 2004, 08:53:48 am
Steve,

If you're interested...and have a few hours to spare, I can email you the first five/six Leccy Lanc threads. They're in PDF format, and no pics. PM me your email address if keen.

Rich
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on October 10, 2004, 19:15:56 pm
Arel...very nice offer there Stevie.  Wot u doing on here Oz person?  Woke up to vote?   >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: SteveM on October 11, 2004, 09:41:18 am
Quote from: Arel on October 10, 2004, 08:53:48 am
Steve,

If you're interested...and have a few hours to spare, I can email you the first five/six Leccy Lanc threads. They're in PDF format, and no pics. PM me your email address if keen.


Rich
That's one hell of an offer, Rich, probably take me weeks to read but could be invaluable, since people will have been more at the stage I am.  Many, many thanks.  My e-mail is smoss@aaib.gov.uk

Gordon, thanks for the pic.  Although the undercarriage loads are fed into the main spar, that is a bit of a yawning gap there.  As I said, with the retracts I have on order, I'm going to have to do even more mods in that area.

Cheers

Steve
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on October 11, 2004, 21:09:46 pm
Stevie...
QuoteAs I said, with the retracts I have on order, I'm going to have to do even more mods in that area.
...as my Halifax plans are VERY similar to the lancs and I hope to build a Halifax before my next birthday (gawd knows when I'll be able to do it though), I'd be very interested in pics on how u go about it  ^-^
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Arel on October 12, 2004, 07:15:45 am
Quote from: Gordon on October 10, 2004, 19:15:56 pm
Arel...very nice offer there Stevie.  Wot u doing on here Oz person?  Woke up to vote?   >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D >:D


I check in here quite a bit Gordo....I haven't done a lot lately, so I don't say much :)

Rich
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: a.mclellan on October 12, 2004, 10:04:42 am
now come on you two, its time to kiss and make up.

;D



What you mean rich, is you check to see if Gordon has flown is lanc yet.
:D
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: SteveM on October 12, 2004, 10:33:33 am
Rich,

First 5 threads received today.  Many, many thanks - as I thought, they have all the info I need at the stage I am right now i.e. the beginning. It's just frustrating that I can't see the pictures (have to use my imagination).  It's a relief to know that a lot of you guys shared the same doubts and problems as I have when starting out!

Gordon,

Good luck with the Halifax - is it a radial-engined one?  Interested to note that someone on the early threads said they were going to extend the ply nacelle sides further back - exactly what I said I thought I might have to do.  Will post a work-in-progress pic soon.

Steve
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on October 12, 2004, 18:27:32 pm
QuoteGood luck with the Halifax - is it a radial-engined one? 
...Yup!  Might do the Halifax they've cobbled together at Elvington (believe 7 Halifax bits were used to build it?).  It's called Friday the 13th I think and I love the kite's name, as why not tempt fate knowing u might be dead on the next op!  The other option will be the classic 1960-1970s Airfix box Halifax with diagonal yellow tail fin lines and from 78 Squadron (my last squadron tour before leaving the RAF..they fly Chinooks now!). 

Quotenow come on you two, its time to kiss and make up.
...I've just eaten, Andy! 
Quoteso I don't say much
...u in love then?  >:D
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: SteveM on October 13, 2004, 09:57:27 am
Quote from: Gordon on October 12, 2004, 18:27:32 pm

...Yup! Might do the Halifax they've cobbled together at Elvington (believe 7 Halifax bits were used to build it?). It's called Friday the 13th I think and I love the kite's name, as why not tempt fate knowing u might be dead on the next op! The other option will be the classic 1960-1970s Airfix box Halifax with diagonal yellow tail fin lines and from 78 Squadron (my last squadron tour before leaving the RAF..they fly Chinooks now!)


Gordon,
Yes, good choice, they even painted an upside-down horseshoe just to make sure.  Don't know whether the actual kite survived the war.  The Elvington Halibag is only just a Halifax - the wings and u/c are from a Hastings and the nose and cockpit, I believe, are scratch-built on a wooden frame.  Still, it is impressive and, until the one under restoration in Canada is completed, is the only way you'll see an intact specimen.  If only someone could cobble together a Stirling....

78 will be just down the road from me then, at Odiham.

Taking a deep breath before pulling together the nose of my Lanc.  I hate forcing bits like this, a recipe for warps and twists, but I guess I have no choice.  I did the last one before I added the top stringers, but decided to add them first this time, to give the rest of the fuse more rigidity.  More cuts as well, so here goes....

H A N D
Steve
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on October 13, 2004, 23:52:06 pm
I seem to have started another lanc thread...I don't remember doing that?    I'm sober, honest!  >:D >:D >:D
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on October 14, 2004, 22:24:57 pm
Craig....Happy birthday young man!  42...but a youngster!  ::)
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: SteveM on October 20, 2004, 12:57:56 pm
Gordon,

Been away for a bit, but got the nose pulled together - borrowed a tip from the big Lanc build article and added a horizontal former to make sure both sides pulled together evenly.  Tomf very kindly sent me a CD with the photos of his build (and rebuild) and very useful they are. 

Just noticed something which had escaped me before: You cannot trim the fuz sides down low enough to meet the bottom edge of the canopy as they should without removing the two upper side longerons.  This means you get the fuz sides inside the canopy.  It would look a lot better if you removed the wood, but I think that would make the front very weak.  Interestingly, studying TN's prototype closely, I notice he has managed it.  I wonder how -  anyone got a fix for this one?

Cheers

Steve
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on October 20, 2004, 18:56:56 pm
QuoteTomf very kindly sent me a CD with the photos of his build (and rebuild) and very useful they are.
..he must be getting soft in his old age Steve, as he took £5 from the rest of us for the CD  >:D >:D >:D >:D  I found his pics of the centre section were very helpful, but the pics of the assembled model were of little use since when u are building u want some detailed shots of the thing that u and u alone are having problems with!  >:D

U can see from this shot that the lower edging of the canopy has to be trimmed away as it's just too high sitting on the fuselage.  I went for battery bay access thru the cockpit, so my pilot and his controls and canopy etc are removed as one assembly.  The assembly is held in by 2 horizontal pins (the front one being accessed through the front after the front turret is removed and the aft one being fixed into the frame just to the rear of the cockpit).  U can see from the middle and lower pics that I cut round the edge of the cockpit and glued it onto the canopy...that also made it easier to access the battery pack as the sides were then not curving up to reduce the width for my hand to get into the bay.

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: SteveM on October 21, 2004, 12:40:42 pm
Gordon,
Right, I'd forgotten that you had done it that way, it looks fantastically neat.  You clearly have cut into the upper stringers but, cos you have no cut-outs underneath, I guess you don't need to worry about the loss of strength.  If you only cut down to the stringers, you end up with the fuz sides inside the cockpit.  If i'd thought about it earlier, I'd have notched the frames and put in a second pair of stringers along the line of the bottom of the canopy (still with me?).  I think I'll go with the plan and reluctantly accept the intrusion into the canopy.

TTFN

Steve
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on October 21, 2004, 19:52:16 pm
QuoteI'd have notched the frames and put in a second pair of stringers along the line of the bottom of the canopy (still with me?). 
.....even without the stringers Steve, the balsa sheet is rigid, as the next stringer isn't too far away!  Putting another stringer in looks good, but as I've learned in the short time since I've come back to this hobby, it would add weight for no real benefit (shades of Tomf here!).  Just remember to trim the canopy, cos it looks awful otherwise and to pass on a tip that BD gave me...paint your internal cockpit frames cockpit green!  O0
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: CraigO on October 31, 2004, 22:40:38 pm
well i have been away for a little while but i am back now.
thanks for the birthday greeting gordon 42 yes :) but still no answers :(

the big news is the mossie has taken to the air and the celebreations aer continuing.  I posted some pics of the whisky witch on the rcscalebuilder.com site under the Brian taylor plans bit.    i even have video of the take off and landing that i will try to post on the Ezone.  lots still to do but i can now say it is a great success and i am a really happy chappy!!! :)

come on gordon get they beauty of yours into the air!!!  i dont think my mouth has ever been that dry and the first flight only lasted about 5 minutes,  the second was closer to 10 and i only used about 1/2 to 2/3 of the LiPo's so 20 minutes would be doable i think!!

anyway cheers fellas
Craig
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on November 01, 2004, 00:15:11 am
Quotecome on gordon get they beauty of yours into the air!!!
..........Hi CraigO, looooong time no hear (and that goes for a lot of us, as the thread has been dead for a few weeks now).  Great news about your mossie...nice one!  I'm at the OCU stage flying my Spitfire to get my hours in before transferring to the HCU and the lanc...but SWMBO has hidden my flight certifiicate for the lanc!  Our model fair is 3 weeks away and I still haven't started the diorama for the lanc, so a little panicy on that front!  Life just gets in the way... :'(

Still...once the spring comes round THEN it's welly time!  >:D 
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: SteveM on November 01, 2004, 09:27:58 am
Hi, Gordon

Ended up planking the fuz, cos I didn't fancy forcing sheet all over the thing.  Looks good and is straight as a die.  Moving on to the tailplane:  got some questions.

The plan shows that the central rear bit of the tailplane is fitted even though it is inside the fuz.  I can see no reason for this, and it means that you would have to cut the hole in the fuz sides as a complete aerofoil shape instead of just the front bit.  I know you made yours with a detachable tail, but I'm going to stick with the plan.  Can you see any reason why I should not forget the aft bit of the t/p inside the fuz?
Also, what's the best way of starting the t/p construction, bearing in mind that there is no flat datum to start with?

Questions, questions.

H A N D

Steve
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on November 01, 2004, 10:13:14 am
Hi Steve,

Good to know u are making progress...any pics yet?  >:D 

Quotewhat's the best way of starting the t/p construction, bearing in mind that there is no flat datum to start with?
.....as the aerofoil is obstensibly flat on the underside for most of its chord I didn't worry about it and just assembled it using my building board as a flat datum.

As for the rear of the tailplane....as I didn't stick with the plan, I'm not the authority here...BD would be a good reference to chat to.  My only thought would be to retain it for stength?  The way I fly that is pretty true!  >:D O0
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: SteveM on November 01, 2004, 11:48:37 am
Thanks, Gordon.
Here is a shot taken after the first rough sand of the planking.(http://www.rcmf.co.uk/uploads/fusplank.jpg).

I take it that you did add that rear section.  I agree that it's better located in the fus if you do

Steve
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on November 01, 2004, 13:18:15 pm
QuoteI take it that you did add that rear section.
...wot section was that?  Doh, sorree!

I'll post a pic tonight when I get home to show the rear of my pride-and-joy (ahem, the lanc i mean!)
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: BalsaDust on November 01, 2004, 17:49:46 pm
Hi guys,
interesting point about the rear part of the tailplane, I didn't think about it when I built my Lanc .....

What I did do though was leave a rectangular section of the fuz unsheeted, ready to pass the tailplane through, with some 1/8 sheet supports inside  cut to match the taillplane section.

Once the tail was fitted, it was an easy job to fill in the gaps. The support idea also lets you check and adjust the taillpane to make sure it sits horizontally ....

Sadly once all this was done I realised I'd built the tailplane upside down ! :-[

The top should be flat with the underneath rising up towards the tips, forming a dihedral effect with the narrowing of the section. Moral here is read and re-read the plan and make sure you build the tailplane upside down on the building board ....

regards
BalsaDust

Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on November 01, 2004, 23:13:58 pm
U see Stevie, even Guru's like BD get it wrong occassionally! Hi BD..how'a life?  Mine stinks!  All work and bu@@er all play!  :'(  Stevie, here's a pic of how my tail section went together..any other pics u want just ask.



[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: BalsaDust on November 02, 2004, 07:41:04 am
Hi Gordon,
haven't flown the Lanc much this year ..... in fact haven't done much flying at all !
Have bought some 3 bladed props for the Lanc and really must add the scale detail now for static displays ...

now that summers gone, the slopes are beckoning and was out at the weekend flying my MDM-Fox .... Great fun !

(http://www.foxesonline.info/lancaster/fox.jpg)

regards
BalsaDust


Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: SteveM on November 02, 2004, 10:46:49 am
Thanks BD and Gordon.
Uncharacteristically I was aware of the upside-down tp trap (it's mentioned in TN's original build article).  BD's suggestion for the fus cut-out seems very sound, I'll probably do the same.  FYI, have you ever come across the scale-like plastic tailwheel assemblies made by Klett Plastics in Dallas?  I have ordered one for the Lanc.  It is not exactly the same pattern as the real thing, but is the only one I can find which is a fork.  Roy Klett is even sending me one in advance of payment - such trust is rare these days!

Steve
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on November 02, 2004, 12:46:47 pm
BD...Veeeeery nice! 
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on November 11, 2004, 21:45:15 pm
Hello?  Where IS everyone these days?  Dek, there's a 12 foot lancaster re-advertised on E-Bay and bidding ends tomorrow.  >:D
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: SteveM on November 12, 2004, 13:54:49 pm
Still here, Gordon.
Working on the tailplane and trying to figure out how best to accommodate those cranked pushrods for the rudders - they're going to get in the way when it comes to sliding the tp through the slots in the fuz.  Another good reason to make the slots bigger and back-fill as BD suggested or make the tp detachable as you did.  Off now to check out the 12 ft Lanc.

TTFN
Steve
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: BalsaDust on November 12, 2004, 14:06:31 pm
Hi guys
still here too ....
Nice to hear your making progress Steve .... re the tail, I managed to keep the crank and pushrods within the depth of the centre section - so it could slide through if neccessary.

Gordon - have you had your model fair yet? How did you get on ?

regards
BD
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on November 12, 2004, 14:38:33 pm
Hi BD / Steve.  Good to see one of the 'old guard' keeping the tread alive!  Hope the weather's better down your way guys, as it's lousey up here!  BD, the model fair is a week on Saturday and I've just started the diorama..oops!  Going to be papier-mache(ing) this weekend and I'm sure my young daughter will love it! 

That 12 foot lanc has less than a day to run and is at £127 (went for £165 when the time waster bid for it).

Had to buy a 1/16" scale R/C Tiger 1 model last week on E-Bay, as I'm regressing back to my teen years when I R/C'd a 1/25th scale Tiger 1 during my time as an RAF apprentice (I know, why tanks when u were in the RAF?).  The model is £750 if you buy the Japanese Tamiya version, (yup £750), but I got an exact Chinese copy for £25 plus £30 post from Canada....even the 7.2v 1700MAh battery would cost a bit without the model!  Great to see the Japanese getting decimated by the Chinese model industry, as the Japs did to the UK industry from the late 60s onwards...sorry if u don't go that far back Steve!  >:D
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: SteveM on November 12, 2004, 15:18:24 pm
Gordon,

I sure do go that far back - in the mid-seventies I had a non-modelling period but got back into it in 1980 with one of those 12th scale Pocher Mercedes  Benz kits (with 2,000 parts) going cheap when Debenhams Manchester closed its model department.

Incidentally, the e-bay Lanc is not 12ft but '12th scale'.  It is the Aerotech kit at 102ins span.  Been stored semi-built for a long time and starting to show it eh?  Canopy looks wrong to me!

HAND

Steve
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on November 13, 2004, 00:20:57 am
Ah Steve, 1/12" scale and an AeroTech kit...I wonder if it is still made?  Been trying out my new Tiger tank tonight..scares the hell out of the cats!  >:D
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on November 18, 2004, 11:58:17 am
Well guys, RAF Barnby is taking shape in the form of a large station diorama.  Brings back fond memories of working on the lanc until 2 in the morning!!  ::)  Left the build far too late for the model exhibition, so now paying the price of teaching for the past week with 4 hours sleep each night  >:D

How's the lanc coming on Steve?  First pic looked very nice.  Made a tentative step forward in making my Halifax by buying a pre-1970s Airfix kit on E-Bay.  That kit has always been my favourite and it's the box art that I've always loved, so the flying version will echo the kit.  So with buying the kit I also have the Traplet data sheets and the 1/17" plan.  No excuses now to start it, only the time to find!     
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: SteveM on November 18, 2004, 12:26:05 pm
Gordon,
Finished tailplane with rudder mechanism as per plan.  Intend to cover it next, prior to test fitting it in the fus.  I'll probably get loads of 'don't do that!' messages now, but I intend to do it in glass/epoxy.  A colleague is an experienced modeller, including building a very successful ducted electric Swift from Chris Golds plans which is entirely covered in the stuff, and he reckons it is no heavier than a good tissue/dope.  My rationale is that, even if it is slightly heavier than a finsh purely designed for decorative purposes, then it is weight well used cos it is adding something to the strength and putting a composite shell around the outside has to add strength.

Any views?
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: CraigO on November 18, 2004, 22:42:30 pm
OK chaps
hows it all going, where are the pics.  come on the public are waiting. 

mossie now has 4 flights on it.  I finally got the gear to retract!  it looks great with the wheels up.  got a really nasty tip stall, but it is quite slow.  I am a bit nervous about it.  I am hoping to get a couple of flights this weekend.  still getting around 10 minutes but i havent stretched the envelope yet.  lots of fiddly little bits to do like supercharger louvers and stuff.  I think i have a dicky motor from the demise of the last mozz.  It has a slightly bent shaft but it seems to be a bit sluggish.  more testing to go!

gordon how is the hallibag going?  and keep building the diyorama

cheers all

CO
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on November 19, 2004, 10:59:04 am
Craig....long time no hear; the Mossie sounds good, any pics yet (with or without the U/C retracted  ^-^).

Steve, as I've got a lanc that needs the Atkins diet (6.5lbs+), u won't get me banging on about weight!  If your mate is correct then it's a win-win situation in my opinion.  As I've said a few times, BD has flown his lanc loads of times and he reckons it's 6.5lbs, so.....?

Diorama finished this morning, so now it's time to get the cobwebs off the lanc and put it all together...I'll get a pic on here in a day or 3.  O0
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: swarfmaker on November 19, 2004, 11:38:40 am
  HI  Gordon
  I BUILT 4 WINGS FOR MY LANC ,PLAIN,  AH' TISSOO, BROWN PAPER & GLASS THE WT 'S
  WERE WITHIN 2 ONZ.OI RECON IT'S NOT WHAT YOU BUILD WITH IT'S THE PAINT THAT ADDS
  MORE WT THAN YOU THINK. THE GLASS IS LESS APT TO GET HANGER RASH.
  THE ONE THING I DID'NT TRY WAS IRON ON,BY THAT TIME I'D RUN OUT OF FOAM.

                                                     Barry

     PS    wots this handbag your playing with then  ??
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: swarfmaker on November 19, 2004, 11:42:16 am
 

             PPS    WE'LL HAVE NO COMENTS ABOUT USEING LIGHT COLOURSTO SAVE WT.
                                                   SO THERE.

                                                     Barry
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: SteveM on November 19, 2004, 16:24:50 pm
Thanks, Swarfmaker, makes me feel a lot less guilty about using the glass.  Roger what you say about the paint.  I intend to use Halford's acrylic custom paints in an aerosol (did you know thay can mix accurate camo colours to order?)  My mate did his Swift in glass to a superb gloss finish, used Halfords primer to check for rough areas and then wet-and-dry'ed it almost all off.  He says that the finish colour goes on nicely without a primer coat.

Since I spy names associated with earlier threads creeping back on, how about a summary of where we are with the models that were built a year or so ago?  I know Gordon (built, not flown) and Balsadust (built, flown successfully several times) and Tomf (built, crashed, rebuilt not flown).  The others I'm not so sure about.

Cheers

Steve
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: swarfmaker on November 19, 2004, 17:24:12 pm
 
  STEVE M
      YOU MAY HAVE GUEST WITH HAVING 4 SETS OF WINGS  MINE WAS A FLYING TEST BED.
  TO DATE IT'S GOT 107 FLIGHTS TO IT'S CREDIT WITH ONLY 1 LANDING THAT DID'NT BOUNCE , THAT WAS WHEN I FLEW  IT AT 6lbs [idid'nt beef up tha under cart it was only to see
if it flew at that wt] IT DID.... LIKE A BRICK.   SO I SETLED FOR 4 1/2lbs,THAT'S OK FOR LIGHT
WINDS BUT GETS BLOWN ABOUT A BIT IN ASNYTHING MORE THAN 15mph.
OH   IF YOU'VE THOUGH ABOUIT IT THE HEAVY DARK COLOURS ARE THE LIGHTEST PAINT.

                                                  Barry
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: gyronuts on November 19, 2004, 17:44:21 pm
Hi,
    Seems a bit quiet on the lanc front. Has anyone flown their's yet? How did yours go Gordon? How heavy was it in the end and how long did it fly for ? Bill
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Arel on November 20, 2004, 08:54:13 am
I come here for the helpful information...

I stay for the comedy :D ;D
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: gyronuts on November 20, 2004, 10:11:28 am
Hi, Plans for an electric Halifax on ebay. item no 5934514749.
Bill
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on November 21, 2004, 00:10:34 am
Gawd...SM,Arel where has everyone appeared from?  Welcome back to sleepy hollow guys.  I've been busy chewing the fat at my local model show and got my pic taken for the local rag to boot...good ol' 15 minutes of fame stuff.  People seem to like the diorama and the lanc, so Sunday will be a repeat of today...here's some pics.  First one shows her centre stage on the lower floor. O0



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Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: BalsaDust on December 02, 2004, 08:56:57 am
hi guys,
anyone still out there ??  :)

hows the build going Steve .... Gordon have you got the go ahead now from SWMBO to have a go at your first take off !

Arel, CraigO hows things with you guys - must be the height of your flying season - any new flying pics/video .....

BD
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on December 02, 2004, 12:12:29 pm
Hi BD...yeah, it is quiet on here just now.  I'm restricted to 2 hours flying on a Sunday (weather permitting of course) and I'm on the conversion course with my Spitfire before being promoted to the lanc.  Still, as it's winter, there should be colder and less windy days for the maiden, so it should take place in a few weeks (once I get more accustomed to the Spit).  And where are our Oz contingent?  ??? 
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: CraigO on December 04, 2004, 02:53:35 am
Hi all

we are still on the planet and having fun :)  Gordon how did you go with the Lanc test flight schedule.  do a couple of fast taxis first just to get the feel of the ol girl. :)   how is the hallibag coming along?


well i entered the lanc, spit mossie and ME163 in the military day and unfortunately the Lanc refused to work.  something has gone awol and it wont go.  the Spit had a couple of good dogfights with a FW 190 and the 163 put on a screaming high speed show.  the Mossie,  well the mossie got me first place in modellers choice and second place from the judges :) :) :) :0.   you could have knocked me over with a feather when they read my name out...twice.  It was a stinking hot day,  38degrees C but there was a light breeze to take some of the edge off it, my mates tell me i looked like i was taking beetroot pills i was so red in the face.

I was amazed that I won and proud that i didnt bingle it, particularly as I doubled the number of flights that i have had with it at the competition. :)  I still have a few things to do.  It is easliy capable of 10 minutes in the air at almost full pace.  I had to change the varioprop blades over to the speed blades to get the power down to an acceptable level but still maintain the pitch speed.  I have now almost got the flaps trimmed up, i have to do some more work on getting the speed control mapping right, they are a bit out of sync and it swings really badly on take off.

I am now starting to do some preparatory work on the Vimy.  GEAOU is the target. probably a bit over 7 feet in span.  gee i must be mad!



regards to alll and sundry,  have a merry Xmas if i dont hear from you all

Craig
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Arel on December 04, 2004, 10:28:24 am
BD,

The problem with Australia is that it's flying season all year round :) So week after week goes around, and I haven't done any building. In my defence though...I would like to blame my good friend Gordon...He holds the keystone that will complete the bridge that will let the troll cross.......and kick me in the bum, so I finish my Lanc.

Gordon,

Did you know they named a whole suburb in Sydney after you? One of the most expensive suburbs too...So how many countries did you subjugate while in HM's service? ;)

Craig,

Forget the beetroot face mate. Stand up and say "About Bl***y time too". That's about the only thing that will get you respect at my club.

Cheers, (and four sheets to the wind ;))

Large...oops sorry...Rich
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on December 04, 2004, 12:17:26 pm
Oz persons. Hail.  Craig.....38 degrees!  Awesome!  2 prizes!  Awesome!  Busy or what?  You have left me feeling more than a tage jaded, as I'm up to my neck in books and 2 hours a week is my limit if the weathers good (thanks for the hint Arel that Oz has better weather!!!).  I'm afraid the lanc didn't win any prizes, but with the amount of interest over the 2 days of the model fair, it was more than obvious to me that it was very popular.  When I exhibit I try and bring some imagination to the set and like last year I set up my PC running Realflight to get the kids (and older kids!) interested in the hobby.  The exibit was swamped then and I hope a few kids took the hobby further.  This is the one area that really gets me angry, as our hobby is chock full of people who are 'me me' and don't help with the younger kids (well, that's what I see over here anyway guys).  It's an older mans game and as it can be expensive too, it can put some kids off (and their poor suffering parents).  Ok, off the soap box. 

Sorry Arel, only spent 1 hour in Oz on my way to NZ back in '83, so little time to impregnate any shiela's....still that air stewardess was very.......... >:D  As you said Craig, I'll try some taxi tests in the next few weeks.  My local road runs just outside our garden and is devoid of traffic late in the evening so.....!  ^-^

Keep the sunblock on guys.... :'(
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on December 05, 2004, 23:42:04 pm
Hi guys....looks like the Halifax will be delayed for a year, as I just happened to bid successfully on E-Bay tonight for a Guillows B-17G...!!  Like the idea of having another kit to make as I'm having withdrawl symptoms and this studying is doing my head in.  It's got most of the bits supplied and other than the motors, ESC etc, shouldn't soak up too much of my time chasing bits etc.  What I liked too was that the model retails at £74 in the UK and my bid of $69 including postage got it for £34.   O0 

Yeah, and before you ask I'll put a thread on when I win back the garage from the 2 cats and begin building it!

The web site I found has a lot of gen on this model, so here's the pic of the model that won me over!  Now that front area needs a little more detail and.......   >:D  http://www.madmanrc.com/b17lg0008.jpg
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: CraigO on December 09, 2004, 09:33:38 am
Hi gordon

plenty of good guts stuff about how to make this into a really successgul flyer over on the Ezone.  Hope you get it going well.

how is the lanc testing schedule going.  Mine is still in the failed component bin :) i have to fix it soon but i have so many other things to work on too.  my wonderful wife just bought me an electric glider, and i am well into the plans for the vimy.  looks like about 80  inches. and i am going to be a cheapscate and use drill batteries to power it.  heck at eighty inches it has about 15 sqare feet of wing area,  i could carry my car battery:)

cheers all

Craig
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on December 09, 2004, 10:04:34 am
Hi guys....Craig, not THE Vikers Vimy?  80" and it will be a beaut!  ^-^ 
Quotemy wonderful wife just bought me an electric glider
......and my wonderful wife said the spare bedroom should be my model room...yahoo, no more cold winter builds!  Thanks for the info re the E-zone, must get back into the groove and visit there more, as since the lanc build, I've been rarely on the site.  The lanc WILL be taxied once the festive travels have been survived, so first taxi just before the New Year when it starts getting light here earlier in the morning.
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: CraigO on December 09, 2004, 21:39:42 pm
Hi Gordon
yes for some reason i decided that my next model would be GEAOU the vimy that Kingsford Smith flew to OZ.  it is in a display at adelaide airport and i thought it would be a groovy piece to build.  the biggest problem i have so far is that the wings have a total of 140 ribs and and 280 sub ribs.  heck that is a lot of time cutting!
mind you the fuz and tailplane are really simple and most of that is on the stripping machine preparing the bits.

I am going to use geared speed 700's this time.  i am sure that smaller motors would be adequate but it will be really really draggy.  there must be a couple of Km's of rigging wires :)

Our wifes must have been talking.  my wife has kicked me out of the spare bedroom but not into the shed yet :)

I just re-read my mossie post.  sorry it sounds so gloaty.   i was stunned to get anything at all!

all the best fellas

Craig
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on December 09, 2004, 23:51:46 pm
Sounds an awsome project Craig.  Re the mossie
Quotesorry it sounds so gloaty.
..if you can't beat your own drum, who would?  Certainly not my SWMBO!  O0  Just saw a Mick Reeves Spitfire go for £65 plus £20 postage and packing on e-bay...what a bargain  :'(
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on December 13, 2004, 22:14:59 pm
Well guys, the B-17G has arrived from across the pond...yum, looks good.   ::)  It's really a balsa version of an Airfix kit, so won't need too much chasing of bits (I hope!  O0 ).  After Christmas with my assignments written up I'll start the Guillows B-17G thread!  Craig...how's about the Vimy thread?
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: CraigO on December 13, 2004, 22:57:26 pm
Hi gordon

there certainly will be a Vimy thread,  i am still finishing the plans and preparing bits and pieces.  I am still looking for gearboxes/belt drives for the speed 700 motors.  gee they are a big lump of metal.

I am also going to carve my own 4 blade props, just for the giggle.  :)  I am having a look at the number of mini turnbuckles i am going to have to make,  that alone is a nightmare!

did you look at the building threads for the b17.  and then when you have looked at them have a look at some of the biggies being built at rcscalebuilder.com.  huge 12 foot beasties :)

i would need another car :) heck i am gettingto that point now.  when i went to the scale day i had 4 models in the car plus batteries and toolbox and there was only just room for me.  what is it going to be like with a 80 inch vimy in there too :0

cheers all

Craig
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on December 14, 2004, 12:43:04 pm
Quotewhat is it going to be like with a 80 inch vimy in there too :0
........cosy!  >:D

QuoteI am also going to carve my own 4 blade props, just for the giggle
...let me know what job you do Craig, as I'd love to spend more time modelling....but I'm not laughing!  :'(

700 motors?  What's the biggest electric motor you can buy?  :-\  I'll be looking to fit four 280 motors (I think they are called?).

Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: CraigO on December 14, 2004, 22:49:50 pm
ah gordon it is not the job i do that is the problem it is just that i dont have kids to pull me to somehat more enjoyable things. :)

I come home from work,  cook dinner ( stress relief # 1) and then if time permits go and tinker with my models.  I think ihave been building almost continually for the last 6 years so i have a bunch of things hanging or dangling fro mbeams or the roof or leaning in corners that i can fly if i get time.  but i really enjoy building, probably more than flying.  SO a challenge like making a set of propellors for the vimy will be a new challenge.

GEAUO is in a display hanger at Adelaide Airport so every time i travel i make a few minutes to go and have a look.  I am getting inspired and that is bad.  I am allready collecting materials and ideas about how ti build it and what details i will add.

Speed 700s weight about 10 Oz each, they are big mothers :)  with gearboxes i was looking at using 14 -16 cells each motor and the props look like being about 12-14 inch 4 bladers. :)  fun fun fun.   with all of the rigging on this thing it will have the aerodynamisc of a brick and at eighty inches it looks like it has a wing area of about 15 sq feet.  so even at 10oz, sq foot, chich would make it a paper bag type wingloading :), that is a huge 150oz ~ 10 lb.  that is light enough to get under the large model classification which is about 16lb.    150 oz sounds like a lot but 28-32 cells could weigh up to 64oz or almost half.  the 2 motors and gearboxes are say 24oz, so 88oz of stuff without an airframe, or RC gear.

i was going to make up my own spoked wheels too, there is only 4 to do. :)  gee i need a life

Craig
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on December 15, 2004, 12:49:44 pm
Quotegee i need a life
....when you get one send me one too!  ;D  That Vimy sounds (Mr) incredible and having one at the local museum must be one heck of a bonus?  Once the assignment's are written up I hope to start my B-17 about mid-Jan.  Oh, and as it's a lanc thread, she'll be taxi tested sometime soon!   
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: CraigO on December 15, 2004, 22:27:39 pm
well the weather here is warming up again.  36 on the weekend.  I found the gaff in the lanc,  looks like the signal wire to the speed controller has had the fritz.  not a common one that.

when you are Taxi testing the lanc just be carefull, one the CG is in the right spot they dont take much to get offf the ground :)

merry Xmas fellas

Craig
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on December 16, 2004, 16:16:32 pm
Quotewhen you are Taxi testing the lanc just be carefull, one the CG is in the right spot they dont take much to get offf the ground
.....even with my 6.5+ lb bloater Craig?

Great news...SWMBO can't travel, so no Xmas travel....log fire, feet up and no 36 degrees,,,phew Craig!  O0
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: CraigO on December 17, 2004, 01:32:38 am
look slike the Xmas temperatures will also be highish,  mid 30's I will have the AC on full and drinking chilled chardonay

yes i am sure thaat even the bloater will get off the ground. :)

have a good xmas all

Craig
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on December 17, 2004, 11:00:25 am
Quotehave a good xmas all
......and you too Craig.   :)  And not forgetting BD (the Jersey Guru....leave those serving wenches alone Andy!), Arel.....30+ degee Fosters?, Steve (the lone lanc builder...there MUST be more people out there surely?), Walts, Dek, Swarfmaker, Tree Magnet and any guests that flit in and out of the thread  O0  8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)


8) 8) 8) 8) 8) Merry Christmas guys!  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: a.mclellan on December 17, 2004, 12:45:40 pm
Hi Gordon and folks,
Just to say to all you lanc lovers have a very Merry Christmas and a good lanc flying New Year


All the breast Andy  ;D
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: SteveM on December 17, 2004, 15:32:33 pm
Hi, Guys,
Back again after a long absence due to work.  Also back again to Lancs.  Had to scrap the tailplane after glassing because I think I put one of the tip ribs upside down!  This gave the impression of one tip having wash-in and the other wash-out.  However, this was a good rehearsal for the second one since I've not used glass before.  Will definitely use it again - the extra strength and stiffness is incredible.  In a forlorn hope that I could salvage it, I dug out the 6mm end rib with with a Stanley knife.  With a lot of brute force I managed it (but it made no difference to trying to warp the tip to suit the other one) however, I was amazed that, even with all this butchery, I never broke any joints apart because the glass was holding it all together.  If that had been straight balsa, half the joints would have split, and probably the sheet itself.

Used Chemie-Technique resin, thinners and filler and lightest Flair cloth.  Very easy to do and quite satisfying.

Steve
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Arel on December 26, 2004, 01:42:26 am
Hi Guys,

Sorry for the belated greetings...I wiped my cookies and couldn't remember my user name to log back on (it's not Arel ???).

Merry Christmas to you all and I hope Santa was nice to you :), he brought me a JR PCM9X Tx, so I've got more mixing functions than a cocktail waiter ;D

I've finished my Predator, so no excuses not to finish my Lanc.....sometime in 2005.

Cheers to you all

Rich
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on December 26, 2004, 15:19:37 pm
Hi chaps...good to know Santa got u your Tx Arel...amazin' wot that guy gets to know to bring as a present!  Me and SWMBO asked for snow on Christmas day and we got it...can't get better than that for watching our daughter unwrap her prezzies? 

I've still to start my B-17, as 2 assignments to write before I can switch off from that nonesense.  Happy Hogmany to you all too!   
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Dek on January 01, 2005, 09:35:48 am
Quote from: Gordon on December 17, 2004, 11:00:25 am

......and you too Craig.   :)  And not forgetting BD (the Jersey Guru....leave those serving wenches alone Andy!), Arel.....30+ degee Fosters?, Steve (the lone lanc builder...there MUST be more people out there surely?), Walts, Dek, Swarfmaker, Tree Magnet and any guests that flit in and out of the thread  O0  8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)


8) 8) 8) 8) 8) Merry Christmas guys!  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D


...... and a Prosperous and successful New Year to you all  :D

Dek
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on January 01, 2005, 22:08:24 pm
Quoteand a Prosperous and successful New Year to you all 
...and to you too Dek!  wot's the latest project then?  ^-^
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on January 03, 2005, 21:45:48 pm
Hi guys...hope u all enjoyed Hogmany?   :ww

I've been busy on the historical trail, as I live a stone's throw from the old RAF Elgin (also called 'bogs 'o main airfield).  It was the home of 20 OTU between 1940 and 1945 and flew Wellingtons, Harvards, Hurri's (and Whitleys early on).  It closed in 1946 after becoming a scrap airfield for Lancasters (ok, that's the lanc connection!).  Went over at the New Year to look at the perimeter-tracks (are u thinking wot I was thinking?).  A lot of the peritrack is still there, with some inside a local quarry's site.  I want to get my Discovery's wheels muddy and get across to where more might be near our local river (the River Lossimouth)....if there's some useable track I just might save myself a 40 mile round trip each time I want to fly...!!
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Arel on January 08, 2005, 11:17:54 am
Gordon,

Surely...if RAF Elgin became a "scrap airfield for Lancasters"...there is a possibilty that some scrap Lancaster bits are lying about...Or there is even a chance that some of the local farmers are using scrap Lancaster fuselages as chicken sheds...

Have you got a metal detector...or, maybe a non abrasive way with the country folk?

I wouldn't mind a control column... :D

Cheers,

Rich
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on January 08, 2005, 19:16:39 pm
QuoteI wouldn't mind a control column...
...any other orders then?  Been round the local quarry that sits inside the perimeter of the airfiels, but no sign of any peritrack...must have been lifted years ago.  Have still to check out about 80% of where it should be, so I'll be looking for it next week..fingers crossed.

Incidentally, there is a partially build Tony Nijeus look-alike lanc for sale on e-bay  :af
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Arel on January 09, 2005, 04:31:17 am
Quote from: Gordon on January 08, 2005, 19:16:39 pm
...any other orders then? 


Since you're offering...I'll go a bombsight, any turrets/303s, wheels or UC parts....Oh and a Merlin or four ;D ;D

Seriously though, last year I saw a UK programme called "Two Men In A Trench". They did an episode on RAF Hornchurch (I think) and found some interesting stuff...Looks like all you need is a pair of wellies and a shovel :)

Rich
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on January 09, 2005, 16:22:46 pm
.... and I thought a nickname for Ozzies was 'diggers', so why are u not over here then Arel?  :ev  I WILL be getting my wellies on next week, but a shovel?  Good idea, as the track is bound to be overgrown (although that short stretch i found 2 weeks ago (at the opposite end of the entire track by the way) was easily recognisable.

Gawd...raining here again   :'(
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on January 11, 2005, 12:55:45 pm
If anyone wants to take a short cut and buy the lanc on e-bay, it's still at £53 bid with 3 days to go.  £53 wouldn't buy you the plans and bits for the kit!  The URL for the e-bay site is http://my.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll

Gowon Arel u know u want to!  :ev :ev :ev

Update £112 now at 2040!
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: CraigO on January 11, 2005, 22:27:58 pm
I am still waiting for a flight or at least a taxi report.  :)

weather over here is getting hotter again it isnt fun to go flying in +40C

he he  i got bitten by my mossie.  silly me put the back of my hand in the prop and cut it up a bit Doh!

Craig
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on January 11, 2005, 22:35:24 pm
QuoteI am still waiting for a flight or at least a taxi report. 
...report coming up Craig......wind 100+ mph SSW.  Torrential rain...get the drift?

40+ degreees?  I'm thinking of moving to New Zealand (honest!).  Must be better flying over there surely?  :'(
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: CraigO on January 11, 2005, 22:42:25 pm
other than a few stinkers it has been great.  SWIMRFL gave me a 2.25m electric glider for Xmas and it loves these conditions, but you need thermo nuclear sunscreen
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on January 11, 2005, 23:54:50 pm
QuoteSWIMRFL
...she who???????????????

Quotebut you need thermo nuclear sunscreen
...we call it tar over here Craig!  :ev
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: CraigO on January 12, 2005, 00:04:53 am
SWIMLFR = she who is my reason for living :) soppy hey  but she did give me a model!! and she is putting up with me building in the front room.

i am trying to repair a DR1 i designed. it crashed not cos i designed it wrong, but cos i used nylon fishing line on the pull pull cables for the elevator and when the elevator got flutter and the top wing came off darn it.   broke the wings and did a bit of damage to the fuz bet not much really.

so over the break i cut a new set of ribs and built a new set of wings.  only took a couple of days even with all of her shopping excursions.



Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on January 12, 2005, 00:24:00 am
QuoteSWIMLFR = she who is my reason for living
...oh gawd I'm gonna be sick!  :ev  Weather here is awful tonight with 100+mph winds (official) and 60000 without power in Scotland tonight...our lights flickered a few times and the PC rebotted itself too.  Not doing any building as it's just too damn cold in the garage  :'(

Just been on the NZ site...seems I have in-excess of the points they want for immigration, so I can apply anytime!  100+mph winds over there? :-[
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: CraigO on January 12, 2005, 00:33:33 am
december jan and feb are the windiest months in SA but it calms right down in march and april

come over there instead.  if the place hasnt burnt down there are plenty of great places to stay :)
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on January 12, 2005, 00:39:35 am
Quoteif the place hasnt burnt down there are plenty of great places to stay
...sounds encouraging!  :D :D :D  Less buildings to fly into too  :ev
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: CraigO on January 12, 2005, 00:42:07 am
how is that Spitty of yours going?
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on January 12, 2005, 00:54:57 am
Like the lanc the Spit is hanging from the garage roof!  >:(  SWMBO and I are staying up late to make sure this gale doesn't damage anything.  As i said to her..this cottage has stood intact since 1825, so the chances are in our favour!  :af  How about your Vimy?
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: CraigO on January 12, 2005, 01:02:41 am
well i am sort of wavering a bit on it.  it is not a terribly exciting model but historically very significant.  it should look great in the air and it would be good to have another electric model to stuff up the noses of the Wet boys :)

currently the plans are finished and i have actually purchased the wood i need.  the thing that is putting me off the most is cutting 140 ribs and 280 sub ribs :(

I need to sit with a couple of bottles of good Ozzie red and turn the balsa sheets into ribs.   the other alternative is to try one of the local laser cutters

but i also haev a spit like yours that needs to be finished,  a HOB FW 190 that is still inthe box,  A ME 109 that is almost done,  an albatros dV that needs a motor change and an incidence correction and its a goer, a 9 foot DC3 that i would love to jump on but wont allow it to beat me........

too many projects no enough craig :)



Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on January 12, 2005, 01:22:56 am
Yeah, time...where is it?  Work is the curse of the hobby classes!  Thinking of work I wonder if they'll be able to buss-in some of the kids to school today?  Any ideas where i can get some info in assembling that guillows B-17 I bought?  Tried a few searches on the web but nothing doing  :'(
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: CraigO on January 12, 2005, 01:29:54 am
there were a copule of threads on the Ezone discussing the Guillows b17 converstion to Electric RC.  they were very thorough from what i remember.  so i would try there first.  after that i am at abit of a loss.  sorry

hope you stay safe over there.  from the kids i mean :)
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on January 12, 2005, 01:34:53 am
Quotehope you stay safe over there.  from the kids i mean
...thanks Craig.  not exactly slumming it just now.  Got BBC Radio 2 on via broadband and they're playing some classic Deep Purple, so could be worse!  :af  I'll nip over and try the e-zone...noticed last night that their administrator has frozen the search facility..weird!  :-X
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: CraigO on January 12, 2005, 01:43:39 am
mmm hadnt noticed that but i havent used it in a while either.

yes some Deep purple would make life a touch more bearable, but i would rather be flying :)
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on January 12, 2005, 01:56:15 am
Quoteyes some Deep purple would make life a touch more bearable, but i would rather be flying
...official update on the TV..it's 120Mph up here!   :-\  Go outside and I WOULD be flying!  :ev

Yup the e-zone has had a hardware failure that doesn't permit searches...the search facility will be down for a couple of days.
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on January 14, 2005, 22:51:48 pm
Hey guys there's a 72" Plan for a Liberator on E-BAY...I'm tempted!  :ev :ev :ev

Must stop looking at e-bay once I've had a few sherberts....by the way leccy lanc 8 is really good to re-read...yup you're right Craig, once that weather calms down I must get up to the field with the lanc.  She's a lovely model, but until i fly here she's just a load of balsa hanging in the garage.  I'll contact the club instructor so he can trim her out and I'll give her a few circuit and bumps (and YES I'll take SWMBO to take pics for u!!!).  but first I need some good weather...where is IT?????????????????

PS...still interested in emigrating to NZ...would that be too near to Arel though?  Or even Craig (people who scratch build Vimmy's scare me!!)?  :ww :ww :ww :ww :ww :ww
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Arel on January 15, 2005, 10:45:48 am
Quote from: Gordon on January 14, 2005, 22:51:48 pm
Hey guys there's a 72" Plan for a Liberator on E-BAY...I'm tempted!  :ev :ev :ev


Just buy it, haggis boy :)

QuoteMust stop looking at e-bay once I've had a few sherberts....by the way leccy lanc 8 is really good to re-read...yup you're right Craig, once that weather calms down I must get up to the field with the lanc.  She's a lovely model, but until i fly here she's just a load of balsa hanging in the garage.  I'll contact the club instructor so he can trim her out and I'll give her a few circuit and bumps (and YES I'll take SWMBO to take pics for u!!!).  but first I need some good weather...where is IT?????????????????


In Australia and New Zealand...only real difference is, if you chose NZ, you'll be landing in a sheep paddock ;D

QuotePS...still interested in emigrating to NZ...would that be too near to Arel though?  Or even Craig (people who scratch build Vimmy's scare me!!)?  :ww :ww :ww :ww :ww :ww


You can rest assured that I only visit UnZud on the squre root year of Haley's comets passing......unless, of course, the snow is good, or the year ends with a prime number, or I have a few frequent flyer points to use up...

Turpentine Rich ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on January 15, 2005, 11:08:32 am
Arel...wot about Tasmania then?

Our club site has now officially entered the 21st century and got its own web site.....and if you look you will not see my lanc since no sod asked me if I wanted to put it on (that'll change!).  It's at http://www.dallachy.org.uk/pilot/Models/Models.htm

Spent a few hours walking all over the local area looking for signs of a runway or peritrack for RAF Elgin...not a sausage!  Only bit of peritrack has been a 60 foot section near the southern end.  There looks like more inside a local quarry, but will have to get the wellies on next weekend to see if it can be accessed by a 4x4.  :-\
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Arel on January 16, 2005, 03:44:33 am
Quote from: Gordon on January 15, 2005, 11:08:32 am
Arel...wot about Tasmania then?


Only if you like the idea of living with two-headed people...Tasmanians are a bit like the American hillbillies...they like to marry within the immediate family. :D

QuoteOur club site has now officially entered the 21st century and got its own web site.....and if you look you will not see my lanc since no sod asked me if I wanted to put it on (that'll change!).  It's at http://www.dallachy.org.uk/pilot/Models/Models.htm


Cool...Are those caravans club facilities? We're not allowed anything permanent...only trees :). Wasn't Dallachy where the Beaufighters/Mossies flew from? Have you had a look around for bits and pieces there?
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on January 16, 2005, 19:01:55 pm
living with 2-headed people, not much difference from here then?    :ev

Yup the caravan's ours and it's a good site, but I haven't snooped around for bits.  Yup again, the beaufighters flew from there as the 'Dallachy Strike Wing'.  At the moment, a road construction company is removing one of the runways to use the concrete as hardcore for roads..sacriledge!  :'(

Incidentally, that partially build TN lanc (aka like our lancs!) went for £130 on e-bay (only positive thing was the guy had built the 4 nacelles, so a lot of work avoided there!).  :ww
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on January 20, 2005, 16:28:30 pm
Hoi Guys, the thread was relegated to division 2, so where are all the lanc builders these days?  Come on Arel, get it started!  :co
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: lavers on January 21, 2005, 09:23:02 am
Hi guys, my name is John. I've been wanting to scratch build a Lanc for a long time now so I took the trouble of researching and reading your thread before diving in.
In the last reply Gordon asked "where are all the Lanc builders" so I took this as my que to join in.
A bit of history about me;
I live in Bolton, England with my wife and young boy of 10 months. My wife is a Head teacher at a private school in Blackburn. I am a full time house husband and spend my time looking after my boy.
I served 20 years in the Army, Royal Signals and left in 1994.. I am originly from Sunderland and moved to Bolton in 1999.
I have spent most of my life building 1/48 scale plastic model aeroplanes and a few years ago I decided to move into R/C. I was a bit of a flop really,  I built a Mick Reeves hurricane and Spitfire to completion but never flew them. I then built a Mosquito on two .40s and yet again never got to fly it. Mainly due to time and the lack of flying site. I have been keeping my eye on the electric flight developments throughout the years and have been impressed by the hugh leap in technology in that area. I decided it was time to flog my IC stuff and move into electrics. I flogged the lot and purchased a Ripmax Spitfire which flies like a dream on a mega brushless and 8 GP 3300s. It's great watching it fly, but I thought it would be even better if I had built it from scratch instead of ARTF. What is it Gordon?  life without pain has no meaning so scratch build. It was time for some pain so I purchased the TN Lanc kit and have been building for about a month. I only get about an hour a day plus about 5 or 6 on the weekend for building time but it's coming on nice.

I am a novice at scratch building as this is my first attempt at it proper, and I must admit I have had to restart a task quite a few times due to being hot headed and not reading the plans properly but I am happy with the result so far.
BUT, having completed the FUZ and yet to attempt the wings how on earth do you install the speed controller, receiver in suitable positions to "connect up" without having a birds nest. I am presuming that the receiver is installed under the middle section of the wing and the controller is installed in the removable centre section. I have not built the wings yet and when I do I might find it's not a problem but for the moment it's doing my head in. It just seems I cannot not settle on the best position for installation and I don't want to install and have to undo it all once completed. I would appreciate any help you could give with regards to the set up.
I am going to (try) and fly her on two speed 480BBs on the inboard engines and two speed 480s on the outboard with 8 GP 3300s and a 50 amp speed controller, I don't want to start a war but I would appreciate some advise on what the wiring for this set up should be. Also what sort of connections you have for all that wiring into the speed controller. I was thinking wiring in normal series but someone might have a better idea.
Might I add that I have enjoyed reading your thread over tha past months and would be glad to become part of it.

Kind regards

John
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: BalsaDust on January 21, 2005, 11:16:31 am
Hi John,
welcome aboard !
The Lanc must seem  quite daunting as a first attempt at a build from plans, but rest asssured it really does go together very well. There may well be some pain ahead - as per Gordon's quote - but I'm sure that all the guys here will offer help and support if and when you need it  :af

As far as the radio installation goes, it really is down to personal choice.
I opted to try and get the number of connections between the wing and fuz down to as few as possible to help with the rigging process at the field. I put the Rx in the fuz above the wing, as you mention, with the retract and aileron servos the only Rx connections to be connected.
I also decided to put the speed controller in the nose beside the battery, so that its Rx connectrion could be left in place.

That meant connecting the power leads between the motors and controller each time the model was rigged/derigged.

I achieved this by putting a couple of 4 mm gold connectors in the wiring and these are connected once the wing is bolted on.

Wherever you choose to put things, don't worry too much about it at this stage, as it is quite straightforward to fit everything once the airframe is finished. I would however reccomend fitting the wires in the wing during the build process for the motors and wing servos. That said the fuselage control runs for the rudder/elevator linkages were a bit of a mare to fit and I opted to leave the fuselage sheeting off the rear end of the fuz until these were fitted.

Re the motors, I'd wire all the motors in parrallel.
Which brand of 480 motors are you using ? You may find that the combined current load could exceed 50A.
The Graupner 480BB motor draws around 22A at full tilt (depending on prop size) ...... I have a standard Graupner 480 7.2v in another model and it pulls 12A when spinning a 6x3 prop.

A picture speaks a thousand words - apparently ...... so here goes

(http://www.foxesonline.info/lancaster/lancwing1.jpg)   (http://www.foxesonline.info/lancaster/lancwing2.jpg)

(http://www.foxesonline.info/lancaster/lancwing3.jpg)

you can just see one of the gold connectors in the second shot and the servo wiring can be seen in the first - its all looped up just after the inline connector with the ty-wrap .....

Hope all this helps,


regards
BalsaDust
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: lavers on January 21, 2005, 12:23:25 pm
Hi BalsaDust,
nice to meet you. thanks very much for the info and the photos. I had considered putting the controller in with the batteries but I could not visulize it working, having looked at your photos I can now see a way forward. I also had in place the receiver in the top of the fuz above the wing but took it out, again not being able to visualize it working.  I sometimes get the tendancy to over think things and they become a problem, first instincts are usually right with me and I think I shall continue with pretty much the set up you have in yours. Your'e right about putting the motors in parallel, I get confused with battery set ups and always say series for parallel and vice versa. Series parallel and I'm well confused!! never could get a grip of it even though it was an integral part of my job in the Army. The motors I have are from the German companay HLN, they apparantly out perform the Graupner 480BB but that is only hearsay from the Shop, I've yet to run them up. For once I did see trouble ahead and made a wise move by building the rudder/elevator section first and connecting the linkages up before any major sheeting was done. I noticed all the tubing/wring for your retracts and that seems to take up a lot of space, I want to put retracts in but as of yet I have not decided which to use, are yours air up spring down? I've seen a set of Ripmax mini retracts on their site but don't know where to buy them. I'm at the stage now where I need to decide whether to super detail the Lanc or build it to fly. I do fly whenever the wheather allows and although I enjoy the building the flying for me is much more what the hobby is about, (for now). Anyway, thanks to your advice I now have in my minds eye what I'm going to do next.

Kind regards

John
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: BalsaDust on January 21, 2005, 13:03:41 pm
Hi John, I've added another images of the wing which may help explain the spaghetti a bit ..... it all looks worse than it really is !

One thing I've just thought of - is that the clear tubing you can see in the pictures is much more flexible than the blue and you can bend it nice and tightly without it kinking .... useful when laying out the retract in the nacelle ....

regards
BD
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on January 21, 2005, 16:53:05 pm
....I go away for 2 minutes and look what happens, the thread's burst into life again!  :af   Hi John, welcome to lanc corner.  Seems BD (he's my guru u know?), has said just about the lot!   :co  His flies, mine doesn't (yet)!  HOWEVER!!!  I have played a blinder today chaps!  You know how I've been pacing up and down the old RAF Elgin site these past few weeks, to little avail?  Well, on my way home after another relaxed highly paid quiet day teaching (did I say that?), well actually marking prelim papers all day, I wondered if I was going about finding a flying site close to home a bit wrong? 

I then remembered that my local quarry (about 3/4 of a mile as the crow flies from my cottage) has a long tarmac drive!!  So I beatled off over to have a look at it and apart from needing sweeping it's near perfect.  Near perfect as there are power cables off to the left but a clear fly-out zone into wind is assured.  So, to show some courtesy, I spoke to the quarry manager and he said no problem!  We even got taking about RAF Elgin and he has an aerial view of it in his office (so impressed with my waffle that he's going to send me some original plans for the site too!).  He also told me RAF Elgin has a disused ROC underground control room (I wondered what those weird looking vents were beside the local road!).

So there u are, I'm off to taxi test the Spit and lanc VERY soon...just need to take my brush and spade first!  :ev   

PS..BD, how did u get those comments onto your pics...very smooth presentation!  :ww

John...if u are a flier more than a builder, DON'T customise, as we'll all moan at you about weight  :'(

PPS...made a tentitive start to the B17 on Monday!
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: BalsaDust on January 21, 2005, 17:20:13 pm
Hi Gordon, sounds like you've found an ideal site ...... and some interesting history to gen up on too !

Our island is covered with German bunkers and gun emplacements ..... our power flying site is littered with them !

As far as the images go, apart from the obvious excess of natural skill and talent, whoops sorry about the typo ! :ww ......
I sit in front of PC's all day working on computer graphics for a living ......

regards
BD
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on January 21, 2005, 21:17:23 pm
QuoteI sit in front of PC's all day working on computer graphics for a living ......
...and here was me thinking you had spent hours refining your skills just to help John BD..!   :co 

Couldn't agree more re Jersey as some of those emplacements were amazin'.  I used to be a regular visitor to Jersey, as my first wife had a sister who lived on the front esplanade in the capitol; now onto my second wife so no more visits!  Was amazed how accurately the Germans had ranged every single rock on the approaches to Elizabeth Castle...did it have that mulit-storey gun emplacement too?  Gawd, my memory's going!  :ev
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Arel on January 22, 2005, 06:15:14 am
Quote from: Gordon on January 20, 2005, 16:28:30 pm
Hoi Guys, the thread was relegated to division 2, so where are all the lanc builders these days?  Come on Arel, get it started!  :co


Gordon,

I have achieved a state of "builders block" that may not be permanent...but is total... :(

Then again perhaps it's just a general state of laziness that I suffer from now and then.

I actually got the plans and parts out for the Leccy Lanc last week......but when I saw the size of the job...I put it away again.

My foamie Lanc could be ready in weeks...but I just can't bring myself to get into finishing it.

All I seem to be flying lately is the depron "shockflyer" type planes...then again, they do bounce well  :D

Rich

Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Arel on January 22, 2005, 06:23:10 am
Gordon and BD,

I've never quite grown out of playing war games... :)

Round here, we're a bit starved for castles and bunkers though... >:(

You guys are just spoilt :P

Rich

P.S. Gordon, did you get my PM, and was that you?
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on January 22, 2005, 10:45:59 am
QuoteYou guys are just spoilt
...yeah it's called history Arel   :ev :ev

.....went over to my flying site this morning, but with a half inch of snow and a warm land rover, the land rover won and I headed home  ::)
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: CraigO on January 23, 2005, 22:49:43 pm
Nice to have you onthe thread John

a couple of tips if you are going for a different power source,  and in fact something that i now do on all of my models,  install a paper tube tunnels to allow you to get the wires for servos and motors in and out in the future.  a simple hole in each rib with the paper tube will mean that in the future if you want to change things it isnt an exercise infrustration trying to get wires from one end of a maze to another :)

I have used 480BB's on a number of things,  they are hot motors there is no doubt!  depending on the props and gearboxs you choose the motors will probably need to be wired in parrallel, cos you are only using 8 cells.  i will run  some numbers through Electricalc to see what you might expect in terms of power etc, but to do so please post the specs of the motors and gearboxes that you are using
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: lavers on January 25, 2005, 10:15:14 am
Hi Craig O,

thanks for the welcome and the tip. Must admit I had not thought of it, would be a nightmare to change a motor if the tubes were not in place. Thanks for the offer to do some calculatiions for me. I am using two 480s and two 480BBs, the specifications are as follows;

480BBs - 46mm x 28mm
             weight 100 grams
             voltage 7.2 - 10 cells
             rpm 22000
             max current 30 amps

480s the same spec apart from;
             max current 24 amps
             rpm 17000

I intend to use them direct drive without gear boxes. I have not got a clue what size props to use yet, perhaps you can come back with some suggestions for me. I feel that this set up should be enough to get me off the ground and flying around on half throttle, maybe I might need to add a couple more cells for duration, what do you think? i must admit it took me four motors and numerous prop combinations just to get my Ripmax spit to fly how I wanted it, should imagine four motors is going to be a nightmare. A question for you; if one motor is set up on 8 cells and receives 9.6v on
3300 m amps and it runs for lets say 10 mins, does it follow that if you add the other three on parallel and run them on the same set up that the duration will come down to 2.30 mins flying time or does it  not work like that.

regards
John
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on January 25, 2005, 12:48:56 pm
QuoteI intend to use them direct drive without gear boxes
...John, your BB motors may be the dogs dangly bits, but if you read Tony's article on the lanc in the RCME, direct drive proved a failure!!!  He changed to geared units.  The multiplex 2.3:1 gearbox with 400 motor (around £12.50 each from Galaxy models in my case) seems to be his recommended standard for this model.  Regards Gordon.

Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: lavers on January 25, 2005, 17:17:08 pm
Hi Gordon,
I have not read the article by TN about using gearboxes, the only thing I have seen is on the on the RCME internet site which states that 4 x 400 should be more than adequate. Mind you, that was written in 2001, but I would have thought 4 x 480s would pick her up enough to allow me to fly her around without the nose dropping too much on a turn. Hopefully Craig O will come back with some answers from motocalc, I have pretty much finished the fuz and I'm now ready to start the wings so if anyone out there thinks I have it underpowered, now is the time to offer all your friendly advice which will be greatly received. I made the mistake of putting under powered units in my Spit thinking that they would be adaquate, wrong answer. In the end before I got it right, I had spent enough money to enable me to buy at least 2 x good brushless motors, so if anyone knows better, your advise would be welcome.
Also, as I am about to start the wings, any hints and tips to make the build go easier for a novice would also be appreciated

kind regards

John

P.S.
How do you find you Ripmax Spit Gordon? I flew mine today but it was far too windy to get any satisfaction and I had to bring her down pretty much straight away before the wind ripped her wings off. flying in a stiff wind is very good practice for quick responses though, if a bit scary. She is a fanatastic plane to fly and can be made to look very scale like on a slow fly past, shame about the nose.

John
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on January 25, 2005, 23:38:32 pm
Hi John.....well, if you want an unusual, but non back breaking way of building your wing, just fit the frame onto a tripod camera mount and build it at the height that it suits you?  Don't kick the tripod as I did, but the wing tip was easily rebuilt in an hour  ::)  As for 4x480s, I'd think they would easily get your lanc aloft, as I'm sure Craig's calcs should show. 

Although I hummed and haa'd about buying a Ripmax Spit I finally bought a second-hand Scorpio kit on this site.  Smashed it up but it's fixed now and hopefully will fly this weekend!  As for the Ripmax, she's a great looking kit (cowling excepted  :ev ), and looks superb in the air (bought a 600 motor and prop expecting to buy one, so I was that close to buying it!).  :'(   Notice that they are regularly for sale at £65 on e-bay too.
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: CraigO on January 27, 2005, 02:17:09 am
Hi fellas,

John I used to use a Speed 480 BB direct drive with a cut down cox 6x3 prop, in my ME 163,  flew great for about 2 minutes. it used to drain a 500Mah Pack in under a minute on full throttle when i eventually measured the Amps it was over 40 amps!  I would strongly recommend that you use gearboxes!.    the sad thing is that the Miniolympus boxes wont fit a 480 motor.  the motor manufacturers, in their infinite wisdom decided that they should have a slightly different bolt spacing in the front,  so they wont fit.
dont dispare however there are other Mfrs like MPJet that make gearboxes that will,  and they arent too much more expensive.   I have used one on the same motor in an albatros dV that i built.  typically they are about 3.8 :1 or something like that.

in answer to your other question about paralleling motors you are right infact it will probably be even less than 4 x a single draw in time.  because the additional current draw will heat the pack more and pull the volts down disproportinately faster.

4x480s is certainly going to get it aloft quicker but to be honest, mine isnt at all fussed about being only speed 400's :) and climibing turns aer easy :).

baware of adding extra cells,  there are trade offs indoing it.  obviuosly adding an extra cell adds a small weight penalty,  it wont necessarily add duration but it will ad available power.  BOTH amps and volts will go up,  hence the inc in power but extra Amps is extra Heat etc,  so better to down prop a bit sometimes too to compensate.

Sorry i havent been back to the thread for afew days.  I would recommend having the same type of motor in all 4 nacelles. it will be far easier to balance them up. but there are ways around it none theless.  for example you could run 10 cells with 2 parralel circuits of 2 motors in series.  then each motor would see about 6 volts or so.  with 2 speed controllers and a programmable tranmitter you could then have the main motors pulling less hard in cruise but all going flat out for take off. 

have another look at the motor specs and let me know the RPM/Volt and the locked rotor current or if nothing else the model numbers and it will make the calcs easier :)

come on gordon how about som flying pics of the LANC!  :)  did i tell you i got bitten by my mossie.  yip stuck my hand in the prop when i was dickering with the throttle mixing.  works really well as a slicer :)

Craig
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on January 27, 2005, 10:25:08 am
Hi guys....Craig, some good gen regarding John's model. 
Quotecome on gordon how about som flying pics of the LANC!    did i tell you i got bitten by my mossie.  yip stuck my hand in the prop when i was dickering with the throttle mixing.  works really well as a slicer
...ouch!  As for the lanc, now I've got my own flying site, the OTU will be beginning its training this weekend, with a Spitfire flight.  Once I'm comfortable with the layout and local hazards (eg....telegraph poles off to the east!), I'll call in the 'heavies'.   :af
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: CraigO on January 27, 2005, 23:03:05 pm
sounds Great gordon.  I cant wait to hear another successful flight report!

Come on Rich get building.  the weather is either too hot or too wet to be out flying :) so get building.

As for me i think i am just about ready to start cutting balsa on the Vimy.  i have almost finished repairing the DR1 and i am just putting gear doors on the mossie. ( and my hand has almost healed :)) 

John
see if you can build the power tubes into the wings so that you can get to the wiring if necessary,  Remember to twist the servo leads on the long runs fore and aft and out to the servos in the outer nacelles for the ailerons, it will reduce the interference significantly.
if you havent been able to find the MPjet gearboxes locally there is a great place in japan that will post anywhere in the world for $2.50 US.  here is their URL

http://aircraft-world.com/default.asp

cheers

Craig

come on fellas get to it. :)
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on January 27, 2005, 23:39:46 pm
QuoteAs for me i think i am just about ready to start cutting balsa on the Vimy.
...and I started to build the B-17  :ev :ev
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: CraigO on January 27, 2005, 23:43:09 pm
and about time too  :) :) :0
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: CraigO on January 27, 2005, 23:43:40 pm
well then where are the pics!  :)
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on January 28, 2005, 11:03:51 am
Quotewell then where are the pics!
.....hasssle hassle hassle, I'll put some on this weekend  >:(  After flying the spit!  :ev
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: lavers on January 28, 2005, 16:29:49 pm
Hi Guys,

Craig, thanks very much for the building tips and the net address of aircraft-world, really good on-line shop. I have taken your advice and bought a set of 3.00:1 gear boxes, only cost £22.00 plus postage, bargain. Although the motors I have are 480s they are the exact same spec as a 400 apart from being a little bit longer so I was able to buy 4 speed 400 gear boxes. I bought the motors from www.hlne.de it's a german site with some great stuff. I have finished the FUZ and i'm about to start on the wings, before I do I need to buy a set of mini retracts, does anyone know of any internet shops that I can get them from.
I like your idea of having two speed controllers and running two different sets of motors in series craig, I should imagine it would give you a much longer flight time, however I am unable to even think about purchasing a programmable transmitter as I also play golf which eats away at any disposable income that I have. I should give one up and concentrate on the other but I like both hobbies just as much as each other.
Sorry gordon I must have misread your post because I thought you said that you had bought a ripmax spit. Shame you did'nt really because I can really recommend it, flys brilliantly.

kind regards

John
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on January 28, 2005, 21:42:17 pm
QuoteI thought you said that you had bought a ripmax spit. Shame you did'nt really because I can really recommend it, flys brilliantly.
...hope mine does tomorrow!  :-X

That German site is all..well...in German!  Do u speak the lingo John?

Remember the golden rule if you are now using gearboxes John...wire the motors positive wire to negative terminal and vice versa, as your gearboxes will alter the prop direction  :af  Here's a pic of one of my motor setups.

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: lavers on January 29, 2005, 09:05:04 am
Thanks for that Gordon. I have not used gear boxes before so I didn't know that they had to be reverse poled. More than likely would have found out when the plane was completely finished and it wasn't taxiing too far down the runway!! Yes I can speak german having lived there for 13 years, but you can cheat, click on to www.babelfish.altavista.co/tr this translation site allows you to copy and paste large chunks of text for translation.
I have looked outside this morning and it's not raining and quite calm so I'll proberly be up on the moors in about and hour with the Spit. Got no worries with telegrapah poles up there I can tell you, I actually fly next to a place called the last drop village and close to turton golf course and apart from the occasional golfer and dog walker it's pretty isolated and best of all it's safe, should the worst happen and the Spit were to fall out of the sky. Won't be good for the lanc as there is no landing strip so I will have to search for that I think.

Have a good flight

John
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: doffer on January 29, 2005, 14:14:33 pm
Hi everyone,

My name is Damian. I have been reading this thread and others about building a 'Leccy Lanc' with great interest.

I've always wanted to fly RC models and finally took the plunge in my 35th year! I have been flying for a year now and getting on very well. It's a great hobby and I have been very impressed with the helpful and friendly people in my clulb.

I started thinking late last year that it would be wonderful to be able to to build a model lanc and deck it out in the markings of the plan my grandfather flew in WWII (no doubt I'm not the only one to be so inspired). I happened upon the RCME leccy lanc article while leafing through old copies in our club house (not as grand as it sounds) one afternoon in between flying sessions. This got me thinking even more about it and I started looked at all the discussion groups and tried to get an idea of what my options were. It seemed that electric was the way to go but I wasn't quite sure enough to go out an buy the kit. I saw an unstarted NEXUS CNC kit with a set of Eurokit retracts on the BMFA web-site but still wasn't sure, so it wasn't until it was advertised a second time at Christmas that I made the move and bought it.

Now what to do? Here I am now thinking about where I might start. I have done quite a bit of reading and I'm reasonably confident that I can cope with the construction side. However, I think I will need advice on various things as the build progresses, so I thought I'd sign up to this group and ask for the benefit of your knowledge and experience.

The kit came with both of the original articles and a follow up 'clinic', so I can see that gearboxes are probably the best way to go. However, being new to this electric lark, I'm a bit confused by the different motor/gearbox options, so any advice would be most welcome.

I'd also like to read the rest of the threads, as there seems to be so much good advice buried within them but I can only find this and the previous one. Is there an archive where I can download the previous ones to read at my 'leisure'?

It's a bit daunting being so far behind the rest of you but I hope that with your help I can make a good job of it!

I doubt my next posting will be quite as long as this...

All the best,

Damian.
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on January 29, 2005, 18:24:44 pm
Hi Damian,

Welcome to the lanc thread and I'm sure the resident plods (aka as Moi, BD, Arel, Craig, John et al) will help to keep those painful moments from springing up.  As you asked about the motors, well that's an easy one, as you can get Permax 400 motors with multiplex 2.3:1 gearboxes for around £13 each from Galaxy Models.  Those will haul your balsa off the ground no problem.

QuoteI'd also like to read the rest of the threads, as there seems to be so much good advice buried within them but I can only find this and the previous one. Is there an archive where I can download the previous ones to read at my 'leisure'?
...try asking Wiz, he's the head high honco and should be able to tell you the definitive answer.

QuoteIt's a bit daunting being so far behind the rest of you but I hope that with your help I can make a good job of it
....we all had to start somewhere and Arel might just start his again this year, but as he says he's suffering from lack of motivation (maybe a few bottles of the amber nectar might help my Oz friend?).  It took me 16 months to complete mine and it still hasn't flown! 

While I'm on that subject, I spent a couple of hours today cleaning up the 'landing strip', as the place had a lot of sand on the surface that had become rutted.  Got about a 100 metres clear and hope to clear another 100 metres tomorrow. 

Must be getting serious about my flying site as I bought a windsock on e-bay tonight...Union Jack one of course old boy!  :co
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Will on January 30, 2005, 09:39:54 am
The first 5 threads are available here;

http://www.rcmf.co.uk/docs/lanc1.pdf
http://www.rcmf.co.uk/docs/lanc2.pdf
http://www.rcmf.co.uk/docs/lanc3.pdf
http://www.rcmf.co.uk/docs/lanc4.pdf
http://www.rcmf.co.uk/docs/lanc5.pdf

Will
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Arel on January 30, 2005, 10:08:57 am
Quote from: Gordon on January 29, 2005, 18:24:44 pm
Hi Damian,

Welcome to the lanc thread and I'm sure the resident plods (aka as Moi, BD, Arel, Craig, John et al) will help to keep those painful moments from springing up.  As you asked about the motors, well that's an easy one, as you can get Permax 400 motors with multiplex 2.3:1 gearboxes for around £13 each from Galaxy Models.  Those will haul your balsa off the ground no problem.
...try asking Wiz, he's the head high honco and should be able to tell you the definitive answer.
....we all had to start somewhere and Arel might just start his again this year, but as he says he's suffering from lack of motivation (maybe a few bottles of the amber nectar might help my Oz friend?).  It took me 16 months to complete mine and it still hasn't flown! 

While I'm on that subject, I spent a couple of hours today cleaning up the 'landing strip', as the place had a lot of sand on the surface that had become rutted.  Got about a 100 metres clear and hope to clear another 100 metres tomorrow. 

Must be getting serious about my flying site as I bought a windsock on e-bay tonight...Union Jack one of course old boy!  :co


So that's what you Scots wear under yer kilts ! :D :D

I'm sitting here watching the tennis and playing with my foamie Lanc tail assy...still looking for that spark of motivation....maybe a vid of your maden (flight :ww) might do it Gordon.

Flew today and had a great air to air with one of my foamies. The enemy plane chopped off my rudder and aerial, so I went straight in......luckily my aerial wrapped around his prop and jammed it, causing his plane to plummet to earth soon after.

Revenge is sweet :)

Rich
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Tree_Magnet on January 30, 2005, 15:15:35 pm
Hey all lonf time no chat "motivation" its hard to be motivated with 4 feet of snow out there. het anyone seen a lanc on skies.
well the lanc didn't make a hole lot of progress (none) i am building the balsa craft hurricane instead for now. maybe when i finish it i will have some "motivation" to go back to the lanc oh well keep the pics and vids comming it is great motivation :) :)

Tom
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: CraigO on January 30, 2005, 22:30:28 pm
Hi All

Tom i built a BC hurricane a couple of years ago, beautiful mode.  but make sure you keep the Tail end light! it is pretty short in the nose so you will have to add lots of weight to bring it back up to the CG.

John
Ok now we are into interesting territory.  the 480's that you have are interesting.  there are 2 types of "480" the hot ones that are very grunty motors, or others that are just a slightly longer Speed 400motor, they call em long cans ( gee the images that conjures up arent pretty :( ).    they perfrom quite differently.  your 480BB does that have external brushes or are they internal?

having 2 speeed controllers insnt that important.  just by wiring the motors up the right way they can perform quite differently.  I would suggest that you do wire them up in 2 pairs of two motos in series.  put your 2 hot motors in the inners and the less hot ones in the outers.   before we can select props and things i really need to know the rpm/volts, internal resistance and locked rotor currents.  then we can calulate how hard they will be loaded up with variuos prop combinations, and try to pick the best combination of pitch speed to stall speed to give the model a save operating range.

cheers

Craig
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on January 30, 2005, 23:28:40 pm
QuoteRevenge is sweet
....awe no, a kamekaze Aussie!  :ev  sound like you have interesting meets over there Arel...beats the hell out of the humdrum ones I've been at. 

Craig..please, you've put a heck of a lot of time and effort into this 480/400 setup, why not just fit 4x400 Permax with multiplex gearboxes?   :co

Ho Hum...gales again, no flying, no cleaning the strip, no nothing, ho hum!  :(
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: CraigO on January 30, 2005, 23:35:37 pm
Hi gordon
well i am inclined to agree with you gordon.  I think that the stock power system works pretty well, and we have seen that i can lift a pretty heavy payload.! :)

If john has the opportunity to go back to the standard power system then that would probably be good.  I cant speak for the other builders out there but i dont feel like the model is underpowered.  it isnt a rocket ship but all of the people that have seen mine fly say that it looks really really realistic.  the trick is to fly it smoothly, but you can throuw it around if you want to.  I havent bothered to try to loop or roll mine but it corkscrews well.

sounds like you are clearing enough space to land a real one.  just remember when you take off dont be in too much of a hurry to climb away steeply!  take it easy. 

cheers

Craig
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on January 30, 2005, 23:41:29 pm
QuoteI havent bothered to try to loop or roll mine but it corkscrews well.
...you'd have to Craig with Arel flying up behing you!! :ev :ev

Quotesounds like you are clearing enough space to land a real one. 
.....feels like it.  See if this gale has blown all the sand back I'll.......!  :ev

Quotejust remember when you take off dont be in too much of a hurry to climb away steeply!  take it easy.
....I'll have a stiff drink and have the wellies handy...thanks for the advice too!  :af
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: lavers on February 01, 2005, 09:11:43 am
Craig,

I appreciate the time and effort that you have put into my 400/480 set up! I have sent for gearboxes and will use them with 4 x 400s as suggested by Gordon.
Couple of questions: Does using a gear box mean I Can use a larger prop?
                             What is the feasability of using a three bladed prop on the Lanc?
                             What do the numbers mean on a gearbox ie 2.3:1?
Is it 2.3 revoloutions to what would have been 1 revoloution without a box.

I've looked at lots of internet sites but still cannot seem to find a mini retract set, can anyone point ime in the right direction.

Regards

John
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on February 01, 2005, 12:47:09 pm
Hi John,

Firstly your gearboxes.  If you look back on my pic on the previous page, you can see the motor drive gear is engaging onto a larger nylon gear, so for every 1000 revs of the motor the larger gear connected to the prop will turn 434 (ish) revs.  The multiplex gearboxes have a specific lug on the end of the large gear that only fits their prop.  I think it's a 7x6 prop, but correct me guys, as I'm not at home as I type this. There isn't a 3 blader prop that will fit this gear and aerodynamically it's a dead end.  I got Dek's 3 bladers and spinners for show purposes, but would never dream of using them for flying. 

The recommended air retracts are made by Eurokit.  They are the lightweight versions for up to 7 pounds (I think).  They are an Italian company and have a few distributers in the UK.  Should cost around £50-60.  Can't give u a link John, as not at my home computer....help here guys!  :'(
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Arel on February 02, 2005, 10:48:25 am
Hi John,

The Eurokit webpage is here...

http://www.eurokitlucca.it/EnglishSite/EngHTM/Eng_Modell_frameset.htm

Once you've stopped checking out the new oil retracts :), you might try one of the larger UK hobby Emporiums like Als hobbies etc for availability.

The part number you're after is CRA\15229\000.

As for your three questions...

Using a gear box usually improves efficiency, so instead of running a small prop at high revs, you can run a bigger prop at slower revs. A smaller prop on a heavy slow airframe, like the Lanc, will waste a lot of energy just slapping the air, while a bigger prop, revving slower, will "grab" the air better.

As for three blader props, you will need to find a prop that is similar in load to a two blader for your motor/gbox combo.

You're spot on with your third question as Gordo says :D

Rich
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on February 02, 2005, 20:26:51 pm
Hi chaps...got my windsock and what a brilliant Union Jack it is...should upset a few Highlanders up here, since they don't like Union Jacks (reminds them of the Battle of Culloden..they lost that one!).  Cut and painted a post and fitted screws, hook etc, so it should be ready to be unfurled on Saturday..gales permitting!   :co
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: lavers on February 04, 2005, 09:37:54 am
Hi Guys,

Craig, thanks for the info for that site in Japan. I ordered the gearboxes on the Thursday and I received them on the Monday, and only $2.50-£1.40ish delivery. Now that's what I call service. Only needed a slight modification to the motors and they fitted perfectly, well happy with that cheers mate.
I have tested the motors with the gearboxes using 8x6 props on 8.4v, whey-hey, I think it will lift off with a house brick attached, I'm not after throwing it around the skies but experience with the Spit shows me that if you provide it with a lot of power and then fly it around on 1/4 to a 1/2  thottle I  tend to get quite a bit more flight time and the extra is always there should I get into a spot of bother and need the power to help me out.

Arel. I have visited the site that you give me for the retracts but it seems to be under construction for the moment.

Gordon, are you not a sweaty sock then?

Question time. What is the best method of attaching the supplied spinners to the motor shaft, got me well stumped that one. I'm presuming that at some time I will want to remove it for a new motor etc, but for the life of me I cannot fathom it out, please help.

Regards John
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on February 04, 2005, 10:40:09 am
QuoteGordon, are you not a sweaty sock then?
...sweaty Jock maybe!  :ev

Attached my spinners by drilling a hole at the front of the spinner.  Glued a circle of liteply inside the spinner with a hole dilled through the centre.  In my case 8BA bolts held onto the litespan circle with home-made felt washers...works well.  :af

QuoteI have visited the site that you give me for the retracts but it seems to be under construction for the moment.
...it also gives 4 UK distibutors, which are:

   
UNITED KINGDOM
JET LINE MODELS
UNIT 25, MEADOWMILL IND EST, DIXON STREET - KIDDERMINSTER, WORCS, DY10 1HH - GREAT BRITAIN
Tel. +44 1562 820104 - Fax. +44 1562 820104 - e-mail: info@jetlinemodels.co.uk - website: www.jetlinemodels.co.uk
UNITED KINGDOM
MICK REEVES MODELS
10 THE AVENUE - MARCH CAMBS PE 15 9PR - GREAT BRITAIN
Tel. +44 1 354 653063 - Fax. +44 1 354 653063 - e-mail: mick@mrmodels.fsnet.co.uk - website: www.mickreevesmodels.co.uk

UNITED KINGDOM
MOTORS & ROTORS
UNIT 2, 13 SMITH STREET - WATFORD, HERTS, WD1 8AA - GREAT BRITAIN
Tel. +44 1923 465712 - Fax. +44 1923 218840 - e-mail: motrot@aol.com - website: www.motorsandrotors.com
UNITED KINGDOM
RIPMAX Ltd - RIPMAX CORNER
GREEN STREET, ENFIELD - UNITED KINGDOM, EN3 7SJ
Tel. +44 (0)20 8282 7500 - Fax. +44 (0)20 8282 7501- e-mail: mail@ripmax.com - website: www.ripmax.com

Hope this helps.

Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: lavers on February 04, 2005, 13:56:27 pm
Gordon,

Sorry but I don't get what mean with your spinners. You couldn't post a picture for me by any chance, I would appreciate it.

thanks

John
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on February 04, 2005, 21:42:43 pm
Hi John, I'll do that...just a mo!  ::)

(http://www.rcmf.co.uk/uploads/Spinnersetup.JPG)...voila!  :af
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on February 10, 2005, 16:43:11 pm
Helloooooooooooooooooooooo?   :co  Got a heavy cold, weather's awful and no flying!   :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: selleri on February 13, 2005, 00:15:06 am
(http://www.rcmf.co.uk/uploads/svg_Lanc1.jpg)

Good friend of mine is building the Lancaster and should have it finished for the coming season.
Looking forward to doing the B&W pic again when it has been finished and detailed.

(http://www.rcmf.co.uk/uploads/svg_Lanc2.jpg)
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on February 13, 2005, 01:28:51 am
like the undercarriage! VERY nice!  :co
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Arel on February 13, 2005, 08:04:04 am
Ditto to what Gordon said. That's the best representation of the full size UC that I've seen yet.

Rich
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on February 13, 2005, 10:27:28 am
Call me a nit-picking ol' phart...and Arel usually does!  :-\  But I hope the underside hasn't been sheeted yet?  Er, um, where's the motor and aileron cables?  :-X
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: selleri on February 14, 2005, 01:45:40 am
You don't see it on these pics but the wing isn't sheeted directly behind the pods, yet,  and the aileron control rod is in place :af
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on February 14, 2005, 14:22:49 pm
Quotethe wing isn't sheeted directly behind the pods, yet,  and the aileron control rod is in place
....phew!  :ev :ev :ev

Hey BD...finally!  Got a tachometer at loooong last from e-bay...now I can do all the gismo checks on the lanc!  :af

Been busy getting bits for tyhe B-17.  Noticed those Chinese TowerPro products making a big inroad into the scene.  Think I'll need about a 20A ESC for the B-17 (after I find out properly from motocalc), and the TowerPro 20A ESc is £7.95...that IS cheap!  Their 5 gram servos are also about £7 each...can't argue with that?
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Arel on February 15, 2005, 06:03:24 am
Selleri,

Interesting links in your signature...I like that variable pitch prop. Is that guy really hovering nose down?

Rich
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Tetley on February 15, 2005, 09:47:48 am
Arel, yep he is hovering it upside down!! :D  here is a link to the vid!!! its pretty slick indeed!!

Right click the link and 'save as'

http://static.rcgroups.com/gallery/data/506/1636YAK54-VPP2.wmv

Enjoy  :af

Jim.
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: selleri on February 15, 2005, 10:41:32 am
Quote from: Arel on February 15, 2005, 06:03:24 am
Selleri,

Interesting links in your signature...I like that variable pitch prop. Is that guy really hovering nose down?

Rich


I would like to see him substain it for about 2 seconds but he's getting there  :af
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Arel on February 16, 2005, 09:35:55 am
Jim,

Great vid mate. That's something that I haven't seen at my club yet :) That's a brave girl on the camera too :D

Rich
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on March 06, 2005, 23:02:43 pm
RIGHT GUYS!  This thread should NEVER end up 3 pages back from the latest posts...it's the lanc thread damn it  :co  Ok, I confess, I've done sod all getting the lanc in the air but health and weather have been bad these past few weeks.  SM, told u I'd do a posting.   :ev

Is there anyone in the world building the lanc?   :'(

Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: SteveM on March 07, 2005, 15:47:52 pm
Hi, Gordon
Yes, I'm still here but been a bit busy recently, so not able to join the posts but making slow but steady progress with my Lanc.  Fus structure done and blocks shaped, tailplane done and glass-covered, starting on wing centre-section.  Will try and post a pic tomorrow.  Did you find that the CNC-cut slots for the spars in the wing ribs were too small for the strip size specified on the plan?

HAND

Steve
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on March 07, 2005, 17:40:41 pm
Hi Steve, good to hear you are making progress...wish I was  :'(  Damn weather!

QuoteDid you find that the CNC-cut slots for the spars in the wing ribs were too small for the strip size specified on the plan?
...nope!  :ev :ev :ev 
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: SteveM on March 08, 2005, 11:44:37 am
Gordon,

As promised, transparencies just placed there to make it look good.  Can't even think of the work still to be done!(http://www.rcmf.co.uk/uploads/lancfuse.jpg)
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on March 08, 2005, 13:01:53 pm
Super looking work Steve....just remember to enjoy it and not think tooooo far ahead.  Funny how I enjoyed making the lanc, but I'm not overly enthusiastic in making the B-17 at the moment?  :-\
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: lavers on March 09, 2005, 10:15:51 am
Hi Guys, photos of my progress so far, things going a bit slow due to my 1 year old wanting to help daddy break his aeroplane.
(http://www.rcmf.co.uk/uploads/P3090047.JPG)

(http://www.rcmf.co.uk/uploads/P3090045.JPG)(http://www.rcmf.co.uk/uploads/P3090046.JPG)
(http://www.rcmf.co.uk/uploads/P3090050.JPG)

Just waiting for my retracts to be delivered and then I'll start putting the hardware in the wings. By the way Gordon, thanks for the photo of the spinner, better late than never. I have managed to ruin two spinners so far! Anyone know where I can get replacements/ substitutes.

Regards John
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on March 09, 2005, 12:57:24 pm
QuoteAnyone know where I can get replacements/ substitutes
...u might try Nexus John?  Nice pics by the way too  :af  Going to fit aircrew?  Incidentally what make of retracts are u fitting and where did u buy them from (yeah ok, I admit it, I'm needing a set for the B-17)  :ev
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: CraigO on March 09, 2005, 22:52:00 pm
the lanc looks excellent John

keep building :)

come on then Gordo,   flight report, flight pictures, Flight Flight Flight ! :)

Craig
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on March 09, 2005, 23:12:36 pm
Quotecome on then Gordo,   flight report, flight pictures, Flight Flight Flight !
....pressure, pressure, pressure!  If only the weather and my cold were better...then the Spit would fly first, as it's been sitting in the conservatory for 3 weeks having been rebuilt etc....scots weather!  Ba humbug!  :'( :'(
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: lavers on March 10, 2005, 08:02:01 am
Gordon,

I've ordered the Ripmax mini retracts from my local model shop. Picking them up today, Actually they are Eurokit under the Ripmax name, gone up in price though, were £53 now £67. The wife is going away this weekend for PGL with her school so Whatever free time I have from the baby is "mine all mine" Hopefully I will make good progress. I will proberly put a flight crew in the Lanc but I'm going to see how good she flies first, then I can tinker.
The sun is shining down on sunny Bolton, I'm off to play golf then fly my Spit, doesn't get any better than that.

Regards

John
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: SteveM on March 10, 2005, 12:26:54 pm
Lavers,

Your Lanc looks great, gives me the encouragement to proceed, which I need at the moment - one day at a time!  You clearly sized the
nose profile around the bomb-aimers bubble, cos I did mine to the plan and you have to shorten the moulded transparency down so much to get the diameters to match that you end-up with it too shallow - well done.  You seem to have achieved a very rounded upper fuse without any flats - did you plank it like I did?

A tip for all modellers from an ex-plastic modeller who researched the Lanc in much depth.  The interior of the turrets should be black as should the interior of the nose forward of the instrument panel.  Although you can't see it, the ceiling of the Nav's compartment should also be black.  Almost certainly the reason was that any part of the interior which could reflect back searchlights from below were black.  The fuselage upper decking under the cockpit canopy should be painted in the camouflage colour (if you are following the standard pattern this would make it dark green)
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on March 10, 2005, 12:47:45 pm
£63!!!......better look at a mechanical set or fixed U/C for the B-17.  Good idea to build fly and tinker, as I just like the modelling and paid the price with a heavy model.  Wot Spit u got?  Mine's a Scorpio foamy.
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: a.mclellan on March 10, 2005, 13:01:18 pm
Hi Chaps,
Its nice to see you all busy, John if you email me with your address I will send you a few sets of spinners, I think I have about four sets in the shed,
Come on Gordon, I am still waiting to see the photo's  of your old girl flying.


Regards
Andy

Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: lavers on March 10, 2005, 15:29:36 pm
Thanks Andy, I've sent you a message with my address on. (Just got your email, thanks again)

Steve,  I didn't do planking I just wet the balsa and rolled it. On reflection and if I had to do it again I would plank it. I think initially one thinks that using sheets would be quicker and easier but it never works like that, It's a real pain getting it to conform to the shape you want. I have several plastic built examples so I have a good idea  what the real shape should be, We live and learn. As a current plastic modeller I realize the the interior should have been black but I have a thing about cockpit green! it's not as green as it looks in real life, the flash makes it look really bright, a bit like Gordons yellow on his pilot's mae west.
I fly the Ripmax Spit Gordon.
It has a mega motor brushless 30/22/3e, 10/6 prop, jeti 40amp controller on 8 x GP3300's. I have strengthened the original kit quite a bit as it was a very flimsy when new and nearly disintergrated after a couple of rough landings, allright now though and can take quite a bit of punishment. Are you going to fly your Lanc Gordon, It sounds to me that you have put a lot of scale work into it and your a tadge apprehensive about getting it up in the air. Don't blame you, which is why I'm leaving mine a bit skeletal until I know how well she flies and how much weight I can add on.

regards John
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: BalsaDust on March 10, 2005, 17:11:19 pm
Hi guys,
same thing with me, re the flying .... I only flew the Lanc twice last year compared with at least a dozen outings the year before ...... The last time I flew it was July, so I'm really feeling nervous about flying it again.

Its a crime to leave it sitting in the garage for all this time - but then it would be a crime to crash the flaming thing as well  ::)

I haven't got around to adding too much scale detail yet and I really should. I've got a set of three bladers for static, and I intend to make a more scale U/C for static too

Maybe I'll dust her off this weekend for a muck around  ......








and if I'm really lucky I'll get the Lancaster out too  :ev

regards
BD
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on March 10, 2005, 17:29:29 pm
QuoteIt sounds to me that you have put a lot of scale work into it and your a tadge apprehensive about getting it up in the air.
....ten out of ten Sherlock!  :ev :ev :ev   Lousey Scots weather is a good excuse too...only had one good day up here for flying in the past 3 weeks and I was on 'family duties' that day! Ba humbug!  >:(
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: lavers on March 11, 2005, 09:10:56 am
look lads, this is what a working office looks like  (http://www.rcmf.co.uk/uploads/office1.jpg)(http://www.rcmf.co.uk/uploads/office2.jpg)(http://www.rcmf.co.uk/uploads/office3.jpg)(http://www.rcmf.co.uk/uploads/office4.jpg)

This was my garage which I converted into a work room, the cars stay outside where they belong.

regards john
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: selleri on March 11, 2005, 19:20:14 pm
Ouch...  must be pain to keep them dust free  :D
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on March 12, 2005, 09:29:19 am
QuoteOuch...  must be pain to keep them dust free 
...yeah, but what a brilliant setup.....

yours sincerely

"thoroughly impressed".
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Arel on March 12, 2005, 11:57:23 am
John,

Lovely workshop there mate. What tank transporter is that in the last pic? (top middle)

Cheers

Rich
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: lavers on March 12, 2005, 14:20:15 pm
(http://www.rcmf.co.uk/uploads/tank1.jpg)

Hi guys, thanks for the comments. Not the right forum for showing a tank but you did ask Rich. It is a Scammell Commander with a Challenger 1, First Gulf War. It is from Accurate Armour, a company from Scotland that specializes in Resin Armour. Took about 6 months to build averaging a couple of hours a day. I used to show them but they end up getting broke travelling form show to show. Iv'e seen the light now though, it's much better building an RC plane and then actually doing something with it afterwards as opposed to letting it sit on a shelf to gather dust.

regards

John
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on March 12, 2005, 21:10:02 pm
QuoteIv'e seen the light now though, it's much better building an RC plane and then actually doing something with it afterwards as opposed to letting it sit on a shelf to gather dust.
...a convert begorrah, praise be and pass me the ammunition!  :ev   I'm a closet tank freak too, as I had to do a military project as part of my RAF Apprenticeship.....did it on the main battle tanks at the RTM at Bovington...don't ask why  :ev  Awsome detail on the transporter; I've done the Tamiya Leopard 1, Jagdpanther, Panther and Tiger 1 in 1/25th scale as an Apprentice too...I know, it's odd, but enjoyed them thoroughly and converted then to R/C; still got the Jagdpanther and Panther 30 years on!

Weather here is appauling...hope it's better where u guys are?
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Arel on March 13, 2005, 09:11:24 am
Really lovely work there John.  :)

Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on March 13, 2005, 21:26:50 pm
Hey John, just to show wot a petty minded sod I am for not having my own model room, shouldn't the Challenger be transported with the turret rotated to the rear?

Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: lavers on March 13, 2005, 22:08:17 pm
Sort of right Gordon, The turret would have been pointed to the rear of the tank and the tank would have been reversed on to the trailer. I took it off to fix a broken part and didn't put it back the correct way. If I'd put it in a competion like that I would have failed big style.

But you can be as picky as you want, at least it's in my model room. ha ha

regards
John
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: lavers on March 14, 2005, 10:36:29 am
(http://www.rcmf.co.uk/uploads/lancdambuster1.jpg)(http://www.rcmf.co.uk/uploads/spitfirevb.jpg)

Just to make up for showing a picture of a tank transporter on the Leccy Lanc site, here a a couple of more relevant types. the Lancaster is the Dambuster version without the mid upper turret and the Spitfire is a MkVB that belonged to Air Cdre Gleed, OC 224 Wing, Tunisia, who was shot down and killed by a Bf 109 on 16 April 1943. The model has a motor and the pro spins but that's about it, plastic doesn't fly very well I'm afraid!

Regards
John
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: SteveM on March 14, 2005, 14:28:47 pm
John,
Is that the Tamiya Lanc?  I have just had to scrap one at the painting stage after nearly a year's work.  Re-scribed panel lines, resin replacement nacelles etc., problem was that Xtracolor paints had no adhesion to Halfords primer.  Strange that, because I did a Revell 1/32 Mosquito using the same combination about 5 years ago and that was fine!

Assuming I get that far, my Leccy Lanc will be a Mk.10, with the Martin mid-upper turret mounted further forward and without the big fairing.  You models really are excellent, I'll be pleased if mine comes out half as good and I also envy you the room.  I also use the garage but, apart from some shelves, lighting and painted floor, it's still looks like a garage!

BTW, Gordon, been looking at the earlier posts on this thread and was admiring 'Walts' work.  He semed to diaapeer around page 40.  Any idea whether he finished/flew his Lanc?

Steve
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: lavers on March 14, 2005, 17:56:45 pm
Steve,
believe it or not they are both Airfix, the Spit is the 1/24 and the Lanc 1/72. Both require a lot of work to get them up to scratch but thats part of the fun. I always use halfords primer and I had the exact same problem last year on a 727, I use Humbrol paints and it went all crazy and cracked, still don't know why.

I believe The mark X Lanc came in at the back end of the war and it was taken on role with the RCAF post war 1946. A few of them were used at the A&AEE for different types of trials, the Martin mid-upper turret being one of the trials. The literature I've read states that the martin turret wasn't very succsseful on the Lanc and it was dropped soon after the war. Looks a bit strange without the hump, my priority is to get mine flying and then I'm going to give it a mark and get it to the same standard as Gordons.

I got the plans for my next project through the other day from Vintage Airplane Plans in America, it's a 48" mossie on two 480's, doesn't look too complicated and just the right size for some aerobatics, won't start it until the Lanc has finished though.

Regards

John
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on March 14, 2005, 18:54:00 pm
QuoteI got the plans for my next project through the other day from Vintage Airplane Plans in America, it's a 48" mossie on two 480's, doesn't look too complicated and just the right size for some aerobatics, won't start it until the Lanc has finished though.
...John, I think Craig was building a Mossie?  :co
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: gyronuts on March 15, 2005, 21:53:39 pm
"Come on Gordon, I am still waiting to see the photo's  of your old girl flying."

Hi Gordon..I see andy is still trying to wind you up!!
We want to see some flying photos. Bill
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on March 15, 2005, 22:03:36 pm
QuoteHi Gordon..I see andy is still trying to wind you up!!
...wot u mean 'trying'?  He's very trying!  :ev

QuoteWe want to see some flying photos. Bill
...so do I  :'( :'( :'(

GUYS!  The weather up here is just plain ('cuse the pun) rubbish!  Got the Spit all ready and just can't get a good Sunday (Sunday is MY day Ok?).  Incidentally, is my method ok for calculating the maximum theoretical speed?  I took the rpm (in this case 3500rpm), multiplied it by 6 inches (as in 9 x 6 prop) and got about 24mph (if my memory is right)....?  ::)
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: BalsaDust on March 16, 2005, 09:04:59 am
Hi Gordon, hopefully the weather will start improving now ( its got to - hasn't it ? )  just remember we're all behind you when the time comes - no pressure of course !

I think your RPM figures look a bit low though ...... I worked through the numbers and came up with a pitch speed of 19.8 mph @ 3500rpm.

I'm getting closer to 6500 with 8x6's or 36mph when running flat out. That said my model does seem to fly too fast, but I generally feel happier about that when flying it. I'll try and experiment a bit this weekend to get a feel for a safe cruise speed - I haven't even dared to check the stall yet .....

Anyone else got some RPM/prop size figures to compare ?

regards


BalsaDust

PS ...

(http://www.foxesonline.info/lancaster/flight3.jpg)

    (http://www.foxesonline.info/lancaster/clips/takeoff-thumb.jpg) (http://www.foxesonline.info/lancaster/clips/LancasterTakeoff.wmv)   (http://www.foxesonline.info/lancaster/clips/flyby-thumb.jpg) (http://www.foxesonline.info/lancaster/clips/LancasterFlyBy.wmv)   (http://www.foxesonline.info/lancaster/clips/landing-thumb.jpg) (http://www.foxesonline.info/lancaster/clips/LancasterLanding.wmv)

pic of the Jersey Lanc test flight added for Andy and some wmv's - click on the small images .... :af
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: a.mclellan on March 16, 2005, 10:27:47 am
Hi Chaps,

Gordon, My old friend, I am not trying to rush you, its just that after seeing all the effort that everybody puts in on making the models I am yet to see any photo's of them flying. I can honestly say Gordon I wont push any more but I am sincerely looking forword to seeing it in the air where it belongs. I hope to have my MK2 finished over the next two months after getting my self motivated again and it would be inspiring to see some good successes.
This goes for all of you lanc lovers currently building lets have a good successful lanc flying summer.


Very Best Regards
Andy :af
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: a.mclellan on March 16, 2005, 12:36:53 pm
Thanks Balsa Dust, now we are cooking :D


Regards
andy :af
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on March 16, 2005, 18:49:00 pm
QuoteI think your RPM figures look a bit low though
...I get that feeling when I'm taxying it BD, it seems gutless.  What I'll do is fast taxy it on the quarry road and see how much it wants to fly. :co

QuoteI can honestly say Gordon I wont push any more but I am sincerely looking forword to seeing it in the air where it belongs.
....looking forward to some taxi shots first, then......!  :ww
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: lavers on March 17, 2005, 08:02:07 am
BD, brilliant pics of your Lanc, boy she can shift. I was expecting the wings to rip off at any moment. If that doesn't get your juices flowing then nothing will !

Sounded great too, Don't know as if I would put her up in that wind though!!

Can't wait to get mine up, I'm sort of struggling with the Nacelles/cowls at the moment. Is there any chance of someone out there posting a few photos of the inside/outside of the cowlings so I can have some idea of the way forward?

much appreciated

John
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: BalsaDust on March 17, 2005, 08:45:21 am
Hi John, i have to say the Lanc doesn't seem to be as fast from a pilots point of view, when flying ..... when I first saw the video I was surprised !

Here's a selection of cowl & nacelle pics I took, hope they're hellpful ....

regards
BalsaDust

(http://www.foxesonline.info/lancaster/lanc0.jpg) (http://www.foxesonline.info/lancaster/lanc6.jpg)

(http://www.foxesonline.info/lancaster/lanc7.jpg) (http://www.foxesonline.info/lancaster/lanc8.jpg)

(http://www.foxesonline.info/lancaster/lanc9.jpg) (http://www.foxesonline.info/lancaster/lanc2.jpg)
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: lavers on March 17, 2005, 09:07:29 am
Topper BD, them's the ones I need. I was struggling a bit with the cowls and the bottom two photo's have solved all my problems. Onwards and upwards.

Thanks

John
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on March 17, 2005, 17:53:30 pm
Wotcha!  Here's a view of my lanc 'flying'..ahem.... :ev :af

eh and the motor set up on the lanc....just to get back to the topic in hand... ::)





[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: a.mclellan on March 17, 2005, 19:34:10 pm
Thank for the film DB , all that was missing was the popcorn, What make of motor are you useing and what is the gear ratio.



regards
Andy
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: BalsaDust on March 17, 2005, 22:13:02 pm
Hi Andy,
I'm using Graupner S400 Race motors, the 4.8v ones, with MFA 2,33:1 gearboxes and APC-E 8x6 props. The whole thing is powered from 10 3300 mAh NimH's.

These motors have a high rpm per volt figure and as such I've found them ideal for use with a gearbox. I opted to wire them up as two series circuits in parallel with one another - inners on one circuit, outers on the other. This means if one motor fails for whatever reason, the other motor in the series circuit also stops, so you avoid the problems of unbalanced power .... that said I've yet to experience a motor failure in 5 years of flying electrics  :ww

Gordon - been thinking about your power setup, its the Multiplex 6v motor with 2.3:1 gearbox you're using, right ? I reckon that setup should be giving you more than 3500 rpm at the prop when flat out ... Can't remember how many cells though ..... It may be that the cells aren't able to source the current the motors are trying to draw and the cell voltage is falling away. It would be worth checking the RPM/voltage/current while the motors are running flat out ...

regards
BalsaDust
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: lavers on March 18, 2005, 08:38:34 am
Hi Guys, I'm about to install my motors into the wing but before I do I need to check what amps they're pulling. This is going to sound stupid but what piece of equipment do I need to buy ( Ahmeter, ohmeter, voltmeter, multimeter) and how do I use it???? I know, I had a sheltered upbring and I'm not very bright when it comes to electrics.

Thanks

Regards
John
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: a.mclellan on March 18, 2005, 10:23:17 am
John , I was just looking at your lanc photo's . Have you got your rudder wires coming out of the top of the tail section? .


regards
Andy  ???
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: lavers on March 18, 2005, 10:33:53 am
Hi Andy, yea I have mate, is it not right???

John
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: a.mclellan on March 18, 2005, 12:52:16 pm
John, theoretically it should be underneath to link up with the bottom pivot point of the rudder. place the rudder up against the tail and you will see what I mean. I suppose in all farness as long as you can connected it to the rudder and it works no harm done. Are you using a bellcrank or servo. if it is a bellcrank is the bellcrank pushrod connection facing down with a inspection hole in the bottom of the fus.As I am wondering if you have put the tail section in upside down.


So many questions on a friday afternoon what is the world coming to hey.


Regards
Andy   :co
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on March 18, 2005, 13:08:08 pm
QuoteIt may be that the cells aren't able to source the current the motors are trying to draw and the cell voltage is falling away. It would be worth checking the RPM/voltage/current while the motors are running flat out ...
.....BD, I'll set up my Wattmeter and see what's happening...quicker to do up here that go outside and taxi it!  :co

John, ideally you need a Wattmeter to measure your motors, but I've done it with a schools ammeter before now.  I got mine from New York for around £20 including postage.  Arrived in 6 days from over the pond too.   

Aha, the upside down tail rears it's ugly head again.... :-[

Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: lavers on March 18, 2005, 13:30:30 pm
Andy,
Yea I've used a bell crank and I've an inspection hatch cut into the tail section. To be honest I mulled over the tail section for quite a while and that was the only way that I could think of doing it. Should have asked the Group I suppose but I think I'd already done it before I joined the link.
In my defense, it does work very well and it's the first time that I've built a plane from plans. the wife breaks up for Easter today so hopefully I will get lots of build time and get it in the air for the summer months.


have a good weekend

John
Thanks Gordon I'll get one this weekend
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: a.mclellan on March 18, 2005, 19:11:56 pm
John, don't be to down hearted, I all so started building for the first time last year, My first attempt went on the fire my second attempt lasted two minits in the air before crashing. I could not get the bellcrank to work properly and ended up fitting a servo were the bellcrank was. I am determent to get this one right but you soon learn from your mistakes. Like you I was late joining the link and had already completed my first lanc before joining.


Have a nice weekend.
By the way gyronuts lent me a clamp on watt meter is was very good but I have yet to see one to purchase.


Regards
Andy :af
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on March 18, 2005, 20:27:53 pm
John...here's a link to the Wattmeter I bought.

http://aeromicro.com/Catalog/astroflight_model_101_watt_meter_1519029.htm  It really is a superb piece of kit and VERY useful.
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on March 19, 2005, 21:04:50 pm
A mild day in Moray and these pics show the new site and my wind sock...it's British damn it.  Spit still needs worked on as the tail is just not strong enough, still it was a nice day for taxy trials.  :co

http://www.rcmf.co.uk/uploads/newflyingsiten2.JPG

http://www.rcmf.co.uk/uploads/newflyingsiten1.JPG

The pics show the site and I'm keeping my flag flying over Moray  :af  If the weather stays nice, it's definately taxi time for the lanc.  ::)
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: BalsaDust on March 20, 2005, 22:28:13 pm
Hi all ..

flew the Lanc again today - had a couple of flights and all went well  :af I've reduced the aileron throws a bit to make it less twitchy and also tried cruising at around half throttle.

Both worked a treat, will try some more next weekend and report back ....

We had a real mixed bag at the field today Capiche 140, Adrenalin, Hotspot & F15 turbines, Decathlon, Cougars - there's always one isn't there ! - a couple of helis and of course the Lanc. Gone are the days when everyone landed to watch the Lanc fly - it's becoming perhaps a bit familiar ..... Must get around to building a Spit & Huricane to go with it !


regards
BD
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on March 20, 2005, 22:59:56 pm
Hi BD...the lanc can never be passe surely?  I hope to taxi trial mine next weekend and that's a promise.  Now that the site is cleaned up and stone and sand free (if not wind or mist, as it was misty all of today..brrr).  Incidentally my Spit swings a 9x7 prop via a MPJET gearbox (no mention of the gearbox ratio), 6V 400 motor and 1100MAh Kan 7 cell battery pack.  Still feels gutless!  :ev
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: selleri on March 22, 2005, 00:28:40 am
I put some pics online of the Lancaster I showed you earlier.

http://frettavefur.net/myndasafn/16/
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: BalsaDust on March 22, 2005, 09:01:29 am
Hi Gordon, have you tried using 7 or 8 1300CP cells for the Spit ? They are really excellent cells ... will supply much more current than the KAN's.

Selleri, thanks for the link - some nice shots there. Brings back some memories of my build and also made me think "Why didn't I come up with that idea ..." when looking at the undercarriage and front turret/front dome mountings ... wheels look good. Any idea where they came from ?

regards
BD
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: a.mclellan on March 22, 2005, 10:19:56 am
Hi Chaps, Nice photos selleri, were did you get the tail wheel from or did you make it.I have been looking every were to find one.One thing I have noticed in all of the undercarriage photos on this thread and this started with TN details, the undercarriage shows  two struts crossed above the wheel were on a lanc it has a upside down V shape and not a X . Just a small detail through does not spoil the beauty of these lovely birds.

Regards
Andy. :af
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on March 22, 2005, 12:47:27 pm
BD...I think the Spit might need a smaller prop, say 8x6 rather than 9x6 and I'd need to be careful to choose a new pack since the pack is mounted vertically into the model (a pain of a design).  A 1300MAh would certainly be a move in the right direction, thanks.  Glued the tail section as now it doesn't have a twist off to port!   

Nice pics of the lanc, like BD, it reminds me of good times and a cold garage!  :ev  Ok, so it's a 'x' rather than an inverted 'v' section on the undercarriage, but the build quality is absolutely superb and way beyond my level and as for those tyres, they are superb....wots the make?
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: a.mclellan on March 22, 2005, 13:31:37 pm
Hi Gordon, I was reading through some of the past thread and I see that you are using 2.33:1 geared motors, are they 6v or 7.2v and what prop size are you using.


Regards
Andy. :af
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: BalsaDust on March 22, 2005, 14:31:16 pm
Hi guys,
came across a nice image of the undercart which I've reworked a little to let me use it as a guide for a set of scale legs ....

(http://www.foxesonline.info/lancaster/lancaster-undercart.jpg)

Something to while away those dark evenings .........

BD

Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: SteveM on March 22, 2005, 15:20:19 pm
Very Nice ,BD,  probably more work there than in the rest of the model!  I must say that i worry a little about designs that add a second strut to the single leg by soldering or brazing.  I instinctively feel that, on the first landing, the difference in stiffnesses will cause the whole lot to spring apart - particularly any cross-bracing.  On the other hand I could be wrong!  To play safe, I ordered an adapted Unitracts twin-strut affair.  They delivered it with oleos which look too chunky for my taste, so I am going back to see if they can replace them with sprung struts which look skinnier like the real thing.

BTW, I am using a plastic tailwheel supplied by Klett Plastics in Texas - the only one I could find which was twin-forked.  Again, a little chunky and, because of the wheel itself, seems a little heavy, but I'm not confident in my abilities to fabricate one which is strong enough.
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: a.mclellan on March 22, 2005, 17:07:06 pm
Hi Steve, Whats the weight and price if you don't mind me asking.

regards
Andy
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on March 22, 2005, 17:46:19 pm
Guys, an alternative is to add some brass tube to a dubro tailwheel and paint it hence:



Had to smile at the comments about the piano wire u/c.....funny how people think along the same lines!

BD...awesome work, do u have a lathe perchance?  And where do you get the bl....dy time?  :ev   Call me an old cynic, but is that real or is it a top notch graphic?  The tyre just doesn't look right somehow....????  :co   PS..how's the blenheim goming along?  I'm at a dead stop with the B-17.

Andy M....
QuoteI was reading through some of the past thread and I see that you are using 2.33:1 geared motors, are they 6v or 7.2v and what prop size are you using.
....Permax 6V 400 motors turning 7x6 2-bladers.  The multiplex gearbox and prop come as a matched pair, as the prop slots onto the driven gear of the gearbox.  You can buy the motors, gearboxes (around £13 each at 2003 prices) and props from Galaxy Models...geat service from them too.

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: BalsaDust on March 22, 2005, 18:11:10 pm
Hi Gordon,
if only ......!

the pic is of a real lanc undercart, with a wheel outline added in photoshop ..... I've printed it out at the right size for the model and intend to use it as a guide to make some legs.

I'd be a happy bunny if I can get anywhere close to the finish of the real thing !

I've got some carbon and alloy tube which I'll use .... pics to follow

re the Blenheim ...... well, I've opened the box ..... but that's about it !
regards
BD
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on March 22, 2005, 18:13:41 pm
BD...if u get anywhere near that detail Walts will need to bow before u?  Hail the guru...how's the wenches; kept busy?
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: BalsaDust on March 22, 2005, 18:25:42 pm
Hi Gordon, been fairly quiet through the winter, but now the grounds are beckoning for some attention ....... with that herd of Wildebeast sweeping majestically across the lawns there's been some damage. those wenches will just have to wait !

regards
BD
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on March 22, 2005, 18:33:16 pm
Quotenow the grounds are beckoning for some attention
...and SWMBO is bekoning me to the grounds; better get the tractor mower lubed!  :'(  Gawd, wildebeast must make some mess of the roses?  Up here it's hairy cattle and locals! I look out for ::)

PS...2 great days of flying weather we've just had...me?  At Bl.....y work!  >:(


Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on March 23, 2005, 00:14:23 am
Andy  here's a link for the 400L motor and gearbox combo recommended for the lanc.

http://www.flairproducts.co.uk/EFlight/Motorframes.htm
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: SteveM on March 23, 2005, 09:04:18 am
Andy,

Haven't weighed the Klett tailwheel, as I said most of the weight appears to be in the wheel itself which could be replaced I guess.  Cost was about $20 delivered.  Nice guy, Roy Klett - he is the only trader I have come across who shipped goods before receiving payment.  He doesn't take credit cards but I got round that 'cos a colleague has a US bank account, so I got him to write a $ cheque.

Check out www.klettplastics.com

Steve
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: a.mclellan on March 23, 2005, 10:26:48 am
Hi Chaps , Thanks  Steve for the info on the wheel. does look to heavy so I think I will have a go at making one.

Gordon , Thanks also for the motor info, the motors I am using are  graupner 7.2v with a 2,33:1 gearbox. OK the last model was to heavy so they had to move some weight but they also seemed gutless when moving over grass. The new lanc is very light at the moment and hopefully will stay that way on completion.





regards
Andy Mc.
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on March 23, 2005, 12:52:04 pm
QuoteThanks  Steve for the info on the wheel. does look to heavy so I think I will have a go at making one.
...agree Andy, they look perfect for i/c.  How can he make a living with such a small parts list beats me.

Weather's looking better and better....taxying the lanc at the weekend is looking good!  :af
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: SteveM on March 23, 2005, 13:08:40 pm
Gordon, Andy
I get the impression that making model accessories is  only a hobby for Roy Klett.  I reckon he probably makes moulds for industry as his main income.
Yeah, I think I will look for a new, lighter wheel - problem seems to be the tyre, which looks like solid rubber any suggestions for a replacement?

Gordon;  Motor mounts - I'll probably go for the motor/gearbox combination you have.  Are your mounts glued to the front of the nacelle firewall or do they go through to the next bulkhead?

Steve
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: BalsaDust on March 23, 2005, 14:04:15 pm
Hi Gordon,
that's what I said when my Lanc had its first outing ....... just a taxi I said, to check out the handling ....... what happens ?

ended up taking off and flying the damn thing ! First flight was missed by the official photographer, so I had to do another  :af

re the tailwheel Steve, I'm using a 1" wheel with an alloy centre and very soft rubber tyre - can't remember who makes it but I'll do some searching. I custom made the stearing mechanism and used aluminium sheet to make the wheel mounting.

regards
BD
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on March 23, 2005, 17:58:48 pm
Quotethat's what I said when my Lanc had its first outing ....... just a taxi I said, to check out the handling ....... what happens ?
...that's what worries me BD, the temptation might be TOOOO much  :ev  Got the battery on charge tonight. 

Steve, have a butchers at Page 63 on here.  The motor/gearbox combo is bolted just forward of the frame where the removable nacelle begins.

Hey, my 'C' class road outside the cottage has been closed for some reason....no traffic, so taxi time for the Spit   :af
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on March 25, 2005, 19:16:45 pm
Hi guys...weather's looking good for the weekend, even up here!  Ok, I'll try and get some taxi pics and NO BD, I won't fly her!  :af
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Arel on March 26, 2005, 06:04:40 am
Hi guys,

Looks like Lanc production is ramping up again...good to see :af

I made a tailwheel setup from a 25mm wheel I had lying around, some 2mm wire and some black heatshrink to add body to it without too much weight. But like BD, I can't remember who made it and I've sanded of the molding marks

Rich

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on March 26, 2005, 10:39:08 am
Hi Arel....good to see Oz is awake.   :co  Your method of wheel manufacture looks pretty much like mine, so great minds etc????  How's the weather down there?  Overcase and drizzly as usual in 'sunny' Scotland.
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Arel on March 26, 2005, 11:53:49 am
Hi Gordon,

Only just awake, going to bed soon. Weather's turning cold here...have to start wearing long pants again soon :D

When you gonna fly it then?

Rich
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on March 26, 2005, 15:40:10 pm
QuoteWhen you gonna fly it then?
....I'm on holiday for the next 2 weeks, so I'd like to fly it ASAP if the weather permits.  I had hoped to get it to the strip this afternoon to taxi it, but the Scots have a terrific name for this kind of weather; we call it dreicht, and boy is it dreicht!   :'(

Long trousers eh, now you know the hassles us Northern Hemisphere guys have to endure!  ::)

Taxied the spit this afternoon (sunday)...wants to fly but needs a smaller prop and larger pack, plus some weight removed from the removable wing modification...should be in the air by next week.  Lanc is now in the conservatory awaiting a good clean and a full functional.

BD...when you bench ran your lanc what RPM were you getting on the tacho?  I assume your gear ratio was 2.3:1 to make my question make any sense?   :ww
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: BalsaDust on March 29, 2005, 10:08:04 am
Hi Gordon, RPM at the prop at full throttle is around 6500. Am using 8x6 APC-E props.

Was hoping to fly the Lanc over this lonnnnngggg weekend, but its been foggy on three out of four days. :(

Guess who couldn't make it to the site when it wasn't fogged in ?  :(

There's always next week !

regards
BD
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on March 29, 2005, 11:51:10 am
BD...foggy eh, who'd have thought?   :ev :ev :ev

Here's a useful little gismo I downloaded yesterday, hope u like it.  It should help and thanks for the RPM info, much appreciated.

http://www.badcock.net/ThrustXL/

Got the lanc assembled today and the tail assembly seems to be twisted, so a little surgery is called for tonight.  Hope to run her tomorrow night and check out the RPM...then..... :af
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on March 30, 2005, 01:02:57 am
Surgery completed..needed to take a 2mm sliver of balsa off one side of the fuselage to even up the tail..looks fine now.  Tomorrow run it, and taxi next day...weather permitting off course.  How's the builds coming on guys? Any pics?
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: lavers on March 30, 2005, 11:44:18 am
Hi guys, a few photos of progress so far as requested 

(http://www.rcmf.co.uk/uploads/inthegarden.jpg)(http://www.rcmf.co.uk/uploads/cowlings.jpg)(http://www.rcmf.co.uk/uploads/cowling2.jpg)(http://www.rcmf.co.uk/uploads/cowling3.jpg)

I have completed the cowlings as per the images that you posted BD so thanks for that. I have decided to be a bit different and mount the motors into the acutal cowling. Installing the motors hasn't been a problem but what will be a problem is mounting the cowling to the wing temporarily giving me the option to remove it for maintenance. Other than gluing them on permanant I haven't come up with a solution yet. Any ideas anyone?

I'm having to wait for a spare part for one of the motors before I can make any further progress,

γιασασ για τωρα ο φιλες μου
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on March 30, 2005, 12:12:37 pm
QuoteOther than gluing them on permanant I haven't come up with a solution yet. Any ideas anyone?
....nice motor and gearbox setup, much better quality than the Multiplex setup I've fitted.  What make are they?  Fitting the setup in the cowlings...a really interesting idea (wish I'd thought of that, but no removable tail assembly, that's my patent!  :ev).  As for an idea to fix the cowling, I used 2 horizontal frames glued onto my nacelle and screwed a servo screw into each side of the nacelle.  As you'll need more secure fixing than that, I'd simply make the horizontal frames tapered to lock and use the screws to lock the taper?  The idea works on thousands of engineering designs (ie: the tailstock on a metal working lathe?).

Seeing your pic reminds me that our garden furniture (identical to yours too!) needs some pressure washing and danish oil this summer!  :ev :ev
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on March 30, 2005, 18:01:45 pm
Here's the lanc having it's max chat runs today.  BD, the RPMs were between 6300-6400 and the battery pack was quite warm but not worrying.  Going to do another one tonight just to double check, then I have no excuses!  ::)

(http://www.rcmf.co.uk/uploads/maxchatrunson31Mar05.JPG)

Just finished the second run and the battery is manageably warm and it ran max chat for 4 minutes and 5 seconds.  RPM was surprisingly constant with only a 300 rpm drop in the last minute.  All in all, seems fine, as she's on 45Watts/lb, so if she's ok on her C of G tonight, She's ready to taxi, ahem fly.

BD..u asked me this question over a year ago, so I'll check with you, what is the plan C of G measurement...can't locate my plan doh!  :'(  In fact if BD is too busy at the castle, can ANYONE tell me?   :af


Hey John, wot's this then?
Quoteγιασασ για τωρα ο φιλες μου



Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: lavers on April 01, 2005, 07:34:09 am
Hi Gordon, the centre point is 8 centimetres from the wing leading edge, or smack in the middle of formers f4 and f5.

I got the gearbox from www.aircraft-world.com It is a web site I got from BD I think. Really good, It's got every conviecable gearbox you could think of and really worth a viisit if you have not done already.

γασσασ για τωρα φιλες μου, is Greek for goodbye for now my friends.

Regards

John
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on April 01, 2005, 23:57:08 pm
Quotewww.aircraft-world.com
..........ah, the Japanese site, some really good stuff on there too!  :af  John, thanks for the C of G info.  Managed to find my plan and interestingly enough your C of G is 4 mm less than mine.  I wonder if your newer plan has been modified?  I found mine to be about 112mm, so I'll need to do a little work on moving the battery pack forward a little.  There seems to be plenty of room to do it, so a little dremelling is on the cards tonight...and the weather is going to be good tomorrow too..even up here!  :af
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on April 04, 2005, 02:27:04 am
Still working away on the C of G imbalance.  Using the 84mm measurement from my plans I've whittled it down from 28mm to 11mm, so next area worth a look is the tail  :af
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: BalsaDust on April 05, 2005, 15:48:29 pm
How's it going Gordon ?

any news ......


BD
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: gyronuts on April 05, 2005, 16:35:59 pm
Gordon,
         since you said you were going to fly the lanc I have bought a model on ebay,installed radio and motor charged batteries and flown it!
Seriously though, how is it coming on?
As the one who had the sticks in my hands when Andy's crashed I know how much effort has gone into the build. Bill

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: BalsaDust on April 05, 2005, 18:01:59 pm
Hi Bill,

that model looks interesting .........

C'mon whats the tech-specs then !?

BD
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: gyronuts on April 05, 2005, 18:10:14 pm
Got it off ebay. Its called "pushy cat", free plan from EFI magazine Jan05 I think.Typhoon 15 3s1500 lipoly and two servos. Flies great.Apparently with a bigger brushless motor it is awesome!!! Bill

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: BalsaDust on April 05, 2005, 20:12:01 pm
Hi Gordon,
just checked my CG - models flying with it set as per plan  - 84mm.
Good luck with the diet  :af

regards
BD
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on April 05, 2005, 22:18:50 pm
Hi Guys....still working on the Atkins diet with the lanc and still 11 millimetres from the C of G.  I'm loathe to weigh the nose, so wondering if I should replace the SD200 rudder servo with one of my 5 gram slo-flyer ones?  Don't want to touch the elevator SD200 at any cost.  BD , megga thanks for the vote of confidence with the C of G info.  Nice to know she'll fly well at 84mm. 

Gyronuts, thanks for the sentiments and nice looking kit by the way.  U are soooright about getting it right before putting hundreds of hours of work in the air...!  :af

On a brighter note I ordered got my new Spitfire battery pack from the USA last Tuesday and it arrived this morning.  Total price of £23 including postage was for a 7 cell 2300MAh NiMh pack with Tamiya connector.  Overlander couldn't match it for price and couldn't find any other site to match its capacity either...ok, go on and prove me wrong then!  :ev  Like the site (the URL is typed in earlier on this thread), as it's very detailed and using their sizes the new pack matched my 1300MAh sizes perfectly.  I'll give it a run tomorrow and try to fix the weird erratic taxying (runs off to the left...weird as it should run off in the direction of the prop rotation surely?).   

confused?  I am.   :'(
 
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on April 05, 2005, 22:58:09 pm
Ok, wot u think of this idea?  I calculate that it'll take 9 ounces to get the lanc C of G spot on.  Now, I've looked at the option of having to go overweight on the nose, but, why not get some extra duration to compensate?  Looking at it this way; I took some weights and prices from onlybatterypacks.com (that site I just mentioned!) and here's the rub:

Fit a 9.6v 4500MAh pack and 'gain' 7.6 ounces and part with £26.60 for the privelage of battery pack and postage.
Fit a 9.6v 9500MAh pack and 'gain' 27 ounces and part with £64.85 etc?  Ok, this is far too heavy but imagine the duration...if it ever got off the ground?  ::)   

Did some more digging tonight and found that changing the rudder servo would gain me 3/4 of an ounce!  Not much on my first thought, but the moment from the tail of the equivalent of 3 squares of 7g (1/4 ounce) lead I've tried is VERY noticeable, so I reckon if I combine a lightweight rudder servo and the 4500MAh pack that would be pretty close to 84mm!  :co  Go on Guru, enlighten me!
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on April 06, 2005, 02:43:23 am
Just in passin'.  I was looking up some retracts for my B-17 and found the Unitract web site mentioned that the mossie retracts can be modified for a lanc....here's the URL.

http://www.unitracts.co.uk/m_retracts.html
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: BalsaDust on April 06, 2005, 08:56:28 am
Hi Gordon,
checked out the site - 9500mAh??  good grief ! never knew they made em that big - as the actress said to the bishop ......

seriously though I'd check the current ability of those cells - you may find that they won't cope with the current that all 4 motors will try and draw. Good idea though to add batteries rather than lead.

What's your current weight ready to go ? - mines weighing in at 6lbs 13 oz's

Having said all that, if your'e only 11mm away from the CG, I reckon you should still be OK to fly it - the model would be a bit more sensitive in the elevator department.

Try playing around with another model that you know well and move its CG back a little to see how it performs ....

regards
BD
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on April 06, 2005, 14:02:10 pm
Hi BD and thanks for the info.  I'll take each point in turn:

Quoteyou may find that they won't cope with the current that all 4 motors will try and draw
....good point as they aren't GP or a recognized manufacturer, so it's pretty much an unknown quantity.  On the plus side, I think some bench tests would clear any doubts and I suppose being £26.60 away from flying her (after spending what seems like a bl***dy fortune so far), is too much of a temptation!

Quoteif your'e only 11mm away from the CG, I reckon you should still be OK to fly it
...I'm sure she will be a bit twitchy in elevator, but personally I don't like the idea of flying a maiden with something I know should be fixed first.  Call me a perfectionist...ok, I'm a perfectionist where this model is about!  Flying the Spit with a corresponding fault would be great too, if I could get the sod to taxi straight first!!!  Gonna try some tweaking today in that department, since the weather is sunny, cold and windy!!   :co



Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: BalsaDust on April 06, 2005, 14:05:19 pm
Hi gordon,
when I first started to taxi the Lanc I found that it did tend to wander quite a bit, but now I find it best to just open her up to full throttle and let her go. Much easier to control once the rudders are biting

regards
BD
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on April 06, 2005, 14:31:38 pm
BD, I'll take that on board...is that why u ended up flying her on the taxi test?  :ww

Trouble with the Spit is that it veers off way below the speed when the rudder takes effect... :'(
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: BalsaDust on April 06, 2005, 15:34:43 pm
Try bending the underacarriage legs so that the wheels "toe in" a little.
That should sort it ....

Is your Spits tailwheel steerable ? If not, look into tying it to the rudder. That should also sort the ground handling


regards
BD
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on April 06, 2005, 18:54:27 pm
Thanks BD...mole grips at the ready! 

Got a quote from onlybatterpacks.com and they can configure a 4500Mah pack for me for £33.50 including postage (beat that Overlander?).  Think I'll order one and take it from there  :af 

I've been using the 'stick' 8 cell GP 3000Mah pack, but I think I'll order a 'block' of 2 levels of 4 cells.  My reasoning is that the pack acts as a point load and as it will be half the length it can be moved forward and back to get the C of G spot on.  I have a feeling that by doing it this way the pack won't be as far forward as the 'stick' pack I'm using now.  That might mean I'll hold on the servo change for now.  Should take a week to come over the pond and $7 for postage that's pretty good?   :ww 
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on April 08, 2005, 22:44:30 pm
Hi guys...gone quiet again!  As it's too hot and humid to fly in Scotland I WISH, I ordered the 4500Mah pack last night and a 5 gram servo to see if it's needed for the lanc rudder and if it's suitable to order more for my B-17 build.  I ordered the servo from these guys...seem VERY cheap for the servos:

http://www.brchobbies.com/

Phew it's too hot up here..another log too many on the stove perchance...bet it's bl***dy cold in that castle BD,; just put another wench in the bed I'd say?   :ev
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: lavers on April 09, 2005, 08:47:30 am
Hi Gordon, I've had some dealings with buying servos from brchobbies and I wasn't too happy with them. (small 5gm blue in colour)I ordered four but two of them wouldnt even work,  I had to take them apart and realign all the gears before I could get it to work and then it was extremely noisy. However, alarmingly they used to flick on their own accord without any input from the transmitter. I used one on the rudder of my Spit and it would suddenly do a twitch and a dive to the left, I thought it was a problem with the rx signal but on investigation discovered that the servos were really just crap. Very basic and very cheap. I have ordered other items from them and have been happy but in the case of the servos, "you gets what you pay for" I certainly wouldn't put one in my Lanc. Have a thorough test before using them. He may have got different stock since I purchased mine and it could be an improvement but be careful.

Regards

John
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on April 09, 2005, 13:20:50 pm
John...warning duly noted and thanks for the info.  True about getting what you pay for, and this is why I only bought one, as that thought was going through my mind, such as the manufacturer?  Who are they?  The cost, cheap but what of the quality?  It was also why I thought of the rudder too, since I've had rudder problems and managed to get it down...but if it had been elevator or aileron, small chance!  I'll certainly test it lots of times before it gets anywhere near the lanc.  And if I suspect that the new battery pack will give me a good C of G it won't be fitted to the lanc either.

Was rather windy up here today, but got the Spit taxying straight at last...thank heavens for molegrips.  Incidentally BD, the rpm is now 3900 (up 400 rpm) with this new 2300Mah pack; it's still swinging a 10x7 prop which I think is too big, and when Inwoods get their act together (2 weeks waiting for 2 props and a receiver?), then I'll try her with the smaller props (9x7 and 8x7).
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: a.mclellan on April 10, 2005, 21:30:40 pm
Hi chaps, Gordon any progress on the weather. I have been all day trying to get the lancs ailerons to work properly. I started with one Central mini servo with a snake wires to each aileron but even when they wire seemed free to move by hand the servo was not man enough. So plan two try-ed a full size servo, bit better but still not right so plan three, two full size servos ever better than before but still would not go back to the center every time. It looks as if I am going to have to revert back to last years set up with two mini servos in the wings.I did not want to do this be course of the glitching problems of last year. The only thing I could do this time would be to put shorter extension leads in an see if it works. No doubt I will have the same problem with the bellcrank again and end up putting a mini servo in the tail and be back to a flying brick.


Never mind what is it they say ( its all good fun). ???
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on April 10, 2005, 22:07:04 pm
QuoteI am going to have to revert back to last years set up with two mini servos in the wings
....like mine you mean?   :ev :ev  Can't fault my setup Andy, so go for it mate!  Still waiting for my big battery details to be processed, so lanc now in the bedroom waiting for it, but weather is awful  :'(
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on April 11, 2005, 23:16:01 pm
Hi  chaps...well I ordered my 4500Mah pack tonight...cost me £38 including postage and packing.  Looking forward to finding out what duration I get out of it.   :af  oh and a correct C of G !!
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: SteveM on April 12, 2005, 11:56:33 am
Hi, Guys
With all this advanced rigging to prepare for flight, can I take you back to the distant past for most of you and ask you for tips on tips (wingtips that is).  The plan seems a bit vague and appears to call for bending the sheet skinning into a double curvature.  Anybody got a better idea?

Gordon, I have set of the Unitracts Mosquito retracts modified for the Lanc.  Haven't fitted them yet but they were v. expensive and came with oleos which look a bit bulky (the Lancs legs always looked quite spindly on the real thing).  May consider asking them for simple coil-spring--around-wire setup if it doesn't look right.

Steve
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on April 12, 2005, 13:02:59 pm
Steve,

if my memory serves me right, the trailing edge is very fragile as it seems to just have the top and bottom sheeting meeting with no edge to glue onto.  I used liightply strips between the ribs to beef it up.  I didn't use it at the wingtips, as I just used a leading edge former I bought from Greatplanes to sand the balsa to the correct profile and then glued the top and bottom sheets to this.  I remember doing it really well as the wing fell of the camera tripod one night and stove in the wingtip, so I got even more fun in building the lanc  :co
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: BalsaDust on April 12, 2005, 14:28:09 pm
Hi Steve,
I opted to be different with the wing tips too .... I built the wing out to the last rib past the aileron and just added a piece of balsa block, which I carved to shape.

I've since found that if the Lanc noses over on landing or a retract gets pulled out ( yup, it does happen !) - that the balsa block in the cowls & tips takes the brunt of the damage. If they were just sheeted, then I think the tarmac runway would have done more damage ....

regards
BD
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on April 12, 2005, 16:10:36 pm
Quoteor a retract gets pulled out ( yup, it does happen !)
....oh no Guru, u mean u didn't take the BIG hint when I moaned and moaned about those soddin' Eurokit retracts being poorly drilled (remember one of mine wasn't drilled through so the single grub screw only deflected the wall onto the undercarriage pin?).  If anyone has the Eurokit retracts I'd strongly HINT that you should fit a second grub screw farther up the moveable casing (I just drew 2 diagonals on the face and drilled midpoint..u have been warned!).   :co 

My worry is that the undercarriage pins will bend under the weight of my effortless landings!  :ww
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: BalsaDust on April 12, 2005, 16:57:17 pm
Hi Gordon, I had a leg pulled out the other day .... [               space for gag here                    ]

but I was getting at the whole flaming unit with ply mounting plate and bits of balsa being ripped out ! Mind you, better that happen than a whole nacelle being pulled out ....

that's even with ply reinforcement of the original balsa mountings

regards
BD

Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on April 12, 2005, 17:12:14 pm
Well u would go flying in a force 10.....and there's the video to prove it!  :ev
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: CraigO on April 14, 2005, 07:24:59 am
Well hi there chaps, been a while 'haintit :)  for some reaon i stopped getting notifications of new posts :(

been doing some flying but not too much.  to damn hot to stay in the sun long enough.  actually been flying my electric glider quite a lot and a good couple of flights now on the mossie too.  I didnt realise how much stress trying to get the mozz ready for the competition really put on me.   i have finally solved the dramatic swing on take off by tuning the throttles separately and I went to the trouble of putting gear doors and other such stuff on it and it certainly reduces the drag.

Now come on GORDON.  you are procrastinating again :)  hasnt the lanc flown yet !  45W/lb sounds a bit light on but i am sure it will be OK.  just be gentle onthe throttle.  the lanc will glide but you would not want to get too slow.  I havent had a single glitch on my twin aileron servo arrangement,  just make sure that you twist the extension leads.  I do it in an electric drill.  takes no time at all to put a hundred or so turns into a couple of feet of extension.

i was going to ask you about borrowing your plans to blow them up to an 8 or 10 foot model.  I got frustrated with the Vimy and eve thoough i had started to mark up and cut.  i have shelved it for the moment.  I have got all enthusiastic about a Polikarpov I 153 a cute looking gull wing biplane.  should be fun.  nearly finished the fuz already.

well then chaps get back to it.   throw another corgi on the fire :)
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on April 14, 2005, 10:18:16 am
Hi Craig, long time no hear!  As for
Quotei was going to ask you about borrowing your plans to blow them up to an 8 or 10 foot model
...well, mine are sliced through and in a right state...anyone out there been good to their plans, unlike me!  :'(

Got the 5 gram servo today...looks dinky and as John said if it's suspect it won't be going in the lanc...also, I have doubts it's up to the job anyway?   :ww

Just had a thought...why not ask the guy who started the 11' lanc thread and avoid having to enlarge them?   :af
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on April 19, 2005, 20:11:52 pm
Aw Gawd THE battery's arrived from the US...wot a monster!  :ev
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: BalsaDust on April 19, 2005, 21:19:40 pm
Hi Gordon,
C'mon lets have the specs !

how big, how heavy, how on earth are you going to fit it in there .....!

I've seen that there are some new 3700 NimH's from GP on the market now ..... also been considering wiring all four motors in series and fitting a new ESC able to cope with up to 30 cells.

If I got some Lipoly cells, say a 5S 5000mAh pack, the current draw may only be 10 or 11 amps which could mean flight times of 25 minutes ! I might try a little experiment and let you guys know ......

regards
BalsaDust
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on April 19, 2005, 22:21:59 pm
Hi BD.  As for your comment
Quotehow big, how heavy, how on earth are you going to fit it in there .....!
...it's quite compact and I'll have to re-glue my velcro strips to get it secure.  It's weight is 688g compared to 475g for the 3300MAh.  Yup, a weight penalty, but no problem with the C of G now!   :af

U reckon your flight times could be 25 minutes............................oooooer!   :-[
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: lavers on April 20, 2005, 09:56:08 am
I'm with you BD on the lipos, they seem to be coming down to a sensible price, however what is expensive is the dedicated lipo charger. Anyone know of a decent safe cheap lipo charger before I take the plunge?
I'm having a rel problem getting hold of a set of Eurokit retracts, seems no shop in the world has them in stock. It's holding the project up so much that I'm seriously considering going a head without them or putting a fixed undercarrige on. Again has anyone got any advice on this.

Regards

John
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on April 20, 2005, 12:52:11 pm
QuoteI'm seriously considering going a head without them or putting a fixed undercarrige on. Again has anyone got any advice on this.
....first of all it's gotta be a fixed u/c since this model ain't a chucker John!  Have you tried the US sites?  Haven't bought much from Tower Hobbies lately, but they are usually the Gold standard for a shop and one I always go to just to look at their pics and specifications. 

Here's the English Eurokit site for all world dealers: 

http://www.eurokitlucca.it/Old_Site/EnglishSite/Eng_HTM/Eng_Modell_frameset.htm

......and another, I tried a dummy purchase on this site and it really has bags of stuff.  Once you have logged on as a member you should be able to buy all your stuff in dollars, which with the strong exchange rate means less to you.

http://www.eurokitrc.com/
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: a.mclellan on April 20, 2005, 13:12:23 pm
John, sent you a email hope it helped.

Andy :af
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: lavers on April 20, 2005, 13:42:32 pm
Eureka! I got em. Thanks for the info Gordon, I have actually contacted these sites but they have none in stock. Andy has come up trumps with the Hobby store. Thanks again

Regards
John
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: a.mclellan on April 20, 2005, 15:14:23 pm
Hi John, I hope they should be OK. The shop tells me they have sent you the new push in type. You Lucky chap. As mentioned before in the thread, it pays to drill and tape an additional hole and fit a M3 screw. I have fitted one both sides of the stem, one which acts as a stop, this stop's  the retract from closing completely as I am using a four inch light wheel.


regards
Andy :af
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on April 20, 2005, 15:34:21 pm
John....
Quotededicated lipo charger. Anyone know of a decent safe cheap lipo charger before I take the plunge?
...there's a thread just started on electric flight just about that...oddly enough it's called What Charger?   ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: lavers on April 21, 2005, 10:58:28 am
Hi guys, here are the new retracts from Eurokit, do I still need to drill more holes?

(http://www.rcmf.co.uk/uploads/retract5.jpg)

regards

John
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: a.mclellan on April 21, 2005, 12:39:57 pm
Yes John, if you look at the grub screw that is used to hold the leg in place you will see it is not strong enough and the legs ofter become loose. I will see if i can send you a photo of mine so you can see what i meant about drilling and taping.

regards
Andy.

PS I'm clad they arrived OK

:af
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: CraigO on April 22, 2005, 02:18:24 am
Gordon

with your new flight pack what is the W/lb now.  looks like you have just added another 6-8 oz to what is already quite a phat machine :)  be careful you might be building up too much and need more grunt.  the stall speed will go up with the increased weight but the pitch speed of your propellors hasnt changed.  so the ratio of pitch speed to stall speed is getting worse all of the time.   there is no shame in adding weight to the nose to get it balanced and the lever arm is in your favour forweight in the nose as opposed to weight close to the CG.

when the ratio of stall speed to pitch speed gets too close you feel like the model is always on the verge of stalling and just wont go any faster.  it will mean that you have to spend more time at full power just to stay in the air.  I know you have had a really good look at the tail area to see if you can shed weight but have another look.  the flight forces on the controls are likely to be pretty small.  what type of tail wheel are you using.  is there a 4 or 5 gram version of the same thing.  I am using the really really light ones now because they are so light and have no real weight or forces on them.  I know everything is covered but it still may be worth stripping overing and putting holes in things to reduce the weight.  beleive me flying a really fat model is no fun and with all of the great work you have put into this Lanc it would be a shame for it not to fly up to your expectations.

i think you have a tachometer now.  i would check the RPM readings of the props on the ground and then calculate the pitch speed. Then check that against the stall speed with the increased weight.  a good ratio is anything greater than 2.5.  other alternatives might include adding a helium balloon to the tail plane :)

anyway just some thoughts.

cheers

Craig
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on April 22, 2005, 11:00:06 am
Hi Craig, I'll take all of that on board.  Got to buy another tacho as the damn thing refuses to work now.  Loved the idea of a helium balloon...absolutely brilliant idea!  :ev
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: BalsaDust on April 22, 2005, 12:04:06 pm
Hi Gordon,
If you let me know the weight of your model with the new batteries, I could load my Lanc with some extra weight to check on performance ..... I may not have to add very much, and it could be an interesting exercise.

regards
BD

of course, if I crash while doing this you'll have to send me your Lanc ...  :af
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: lavers on April 22, 2005, 16:04:58 pm
Hi guys, C'mon then, whats the best way to fill the reservoir on the Eurokit retracts. I have an air pump for my airbrushes but this cuts out as if to show that the cylinder is full but when I press to raise the gear it barely has a half hearted attempt and it stays at an angle of 45 degrees. So whats the best way to fill it with air then?

Regards

John

BD, couldn't be a pain could I and ask you to post another picture of the centre section of your wings looking from the top down so I can have a look at how you've laid out all the gubbins.

Many thanks
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: alan c on April 22, 2005, 16:33:56 pm
cheap as chips electric compressor,  abot a tenner, from, i think halfords,   pump them up to 120psi   should be good for a few cycles,   have a look at, i think, the hurricane thread, in the YT section,  guy had probs,  sent retracts back, only problem was not enough pressure,   suggest you im him, and ask what compressor he used,   hope this helps
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: BalsaDust on April 22, 2005, 17:56:28 pm
You purists out there are going to hate me ........

I use an old bicycle pump to pressurise ther tank. I had an extra piece in the retract box that I used to screw into the end of the pump & fitted an offcut of tubing to that. Works a treat with about six pumps.

Here's that picture for you by the way .....

(http://www.foxesonline.info/lancaster/lancwing3.jpg)

If you look at www.foxesonline.info/lancaster (http://www.foxesonline.info/lancaster), you'll get a listing some of the pics I have to date


regards
BD
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: a.mclellan on April 22, 2005, 19:33:59 pm
Hi John, I have tried to take a photo of the undercarrage leg but can't get it small enough to send . I also used a tyre compressure for my retracts. I set mine on 100psi as I was a bit scared to go any higher.




Regards
Andy
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on April 22, 2005, 21:20:21 pm
QuoteYou purists out there are going to hate me ........

I use an old bicycle pump to pressurise the tank
...me too!  :'( :'(

BD...I'll weigh it sometime soon...are u sure this is a good idea?  :co
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: lavers on April 26, 2005, 08:49:52 am
Thanks for the info on the retracts guys, Alan C, I have read the Hurricane thread and taken all on board thanks. Weather been rubbish in Bolton for weeks, been windy every day for some reason and not able to get any flying in whatsoever. Where's all this global warming with long hot sunny days they keep talking about?

Mind you bolton has four types of weather; wet & windy, wet, windy, and that light rain that gets you really wet! I originate from the North East where it's bloody cold but you have to water your plants every now and then!

regards
John
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on April 26, 2005, 12:47:44 pm
QuoteI originate from the North East where it's bl**dy cold
...East coast wind + Scotland = RAF Leuchars...Gawd that WAS siberia!   ;D ;D ;D

Still not touched my new battery or the lanc for a week or so.  Been too busy decapitating the Spit...Gordon lesson No 1, don't fly with only 3 hours sleep!!  :ev  Got my new Tacho today, so should be able to do some serious calculations Craig (thanks again for the excellent gen by the way).   :af
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: CraigO on April 27, 2005, 03:41:02 am
I am with Gordon i use a bike pump too.  only takes about 20 or 30 poumps in there to give me about 15 retract cycles of more.  I use springair retracts so air up and then spring down so they use less air than others i assume that the euroretract thingies are the same.

Craig
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on April 27, 2005, 12:48:48 pm
Quotei assume that the euroretract thingies are the same.
...yup!  :af
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: SteveM on April 27, 2005, 13:28:55 pm
Hi, Guys
Getting to the stage where I have to think about installing the aileron servos (one for each).  Got any recommendations ref. type/size and any good tips (already taken on board the one about twisting the leads).

Steve
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on April 27, 2005, 18:33:08 pm
Steve, u can't go far wrong with the Naro SD200 servos (think Ripmax sell 'em too).  I also bought a couple of servo mounting trays and they fitted into the wing perfectly and removal is a dawdle too.  Got all my servos, motors/gearboxes and mounting trays etc from Galaxy models; excellent service too.
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: lavers on April 28, 2005, 08:52:11 am
Andy, you can't go too wrong with the Japanese site http://aircraft-world.com/default.asp they have a hugh array of servos, I bought two yesterday $13 dollers each for really good quality mini servos and the service is excellent. Only $2 delivery and takes about 4 days to get  to you from the date of order.

I am also about to start the wing servos but I also having problems with the air retracts. The aluminum block which houses the piston has two small rubber "O" rings on it and the piston movement is very stiff indeed, Can any one offer advice as to what lubricant to use for rubber without the danger of perishment.

I have also tried different methods of filling the air tank and the only one that works is the bycycle pump but only for about three rotations and thats after forty pumps! checked for leaks but none there. Starting to get a bit cheesed off with it now, seems as if nothing is simple and goes to plan. think I'll leave it for a bit and go back with a fresh look in a few days.

Regards

John
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: BalsaDust on April 28, 2005, 09:09:05 am
Hi guys, I used a couple of Hitec 101 MG servos for the ailerons. They're mounted using some bits of balsa block between an extra dummy rib I fitted to the wing. I also felt that once they were in they were going to stay in, so I just covered over the servo bay with solarfilm.

As far as the retracts go, the Eurokit ones I have only take about 5 or 6 pumps before I reckon their up to pressure, and I find that's fine. I dont tend to pop them out when flying around, and if I have to overshoot a landing attempt, then they stay down. Does't affect performance as far as I can tell. One thing to watch though is the operation of the valve. If the servo isn't set up properly, I found that air can leak out if the servo tries to push the valve too far ....

Sorry, no advice re what to use to lubricate the o-rings .....

Hope to get some more flights in this weekend !  :af

BD
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: a.mclellan on April 28, 2005, 10:18:06 am
Hi John, I used my retracts once last year and had to remove them because the model was to heavy. Have just refitted them to the new wing and they leaked at the o rings. I removed the shaft and put Vaseline on the rubber, pumped it up to 100psi worked a treat. I am experimenting with servos at the moment two SD200 work well but I am trying some smaller but having problems with the travel. will keep you posted.

Andy :af
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on April 28, 2005, 10:34:43 am
QuoteCan any one offer advice as to what lubricant to use for rubber without the danger of perishment.
.....any vegetable oil (eg: olive oil) is benign to most rubbers, irrespective of whether it's natural or synthetic rubber.

Quotethe Eurokit ones I have only take about 5 or 6 pumps before I reckon their up to pressure, and I find that's fine.
.....I'll endorse that oh wise one!  :af
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: lavers on April 29, 2005, 14:09:09 pm
Hi guys, thanks for the info on the retracts, I managed to get some silicon oil and it works a treat now. Still haven't solved the air tank yet but that can wait. My next problem has got me well puzzled! I know I'm new to this game but correct me if I'm wrong, when fitting the servos into the wing for the ailerons I connect them to a Y lead which connects to whatever port in the receiver right? if I connect two servos of the same make I get problems. The arm moves as normal up or down but when it returns to neutral it starts to dance about, as though the transmitter was running down and the servos go haywire. When I connect two different types of servos everything is fine! So whats that about then, anyone got a clue?

Thanks

John

Just ran another  test and it seems i only have a problem with a particular make of servo, they are called  Waypoint servos and I got them from the Japanese site.

John
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on April 29, 2005, 15:31:00 pm
QuoteI got them from the Japanese site.
...from the mouth of (nippon) babes?   :ev :ev  Ripmax SD200 servos, really good quality and around £13 each methinks...never gave me any problems in any model I've used them in!  :af  Here they are at http://www.galaxymodels.co.uk/new/results.asp?subt=Supertec%20Servos

Just as an after thought and one echoed by Craig or John recently when they commented about my idea of fitting el-cheapo servos in the tail...why put all your good work at risk for the sake of a few quid?   :co
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: alan c on April 29, 2005, 19:53:20 pm
would seriously suggest setting the ailerons upwith differential,  v important to have the down going one movung about half the upgoing   this is so the thing aileron will bite at low speed,  so as to not get aileron reversal,  this, simply, is where the down going one creates drag, rather than doing its job,  making the wing go in the direction of the aileron,  not the oher way round
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: PDR on April 30, 2005, 22:30:41 pm
Quote from: alan c on April 29, 2005, 19:53:20 pm
would seriously suggest setting the ailerons upwith differential, v important to have the down going one movung about half the upgoing this is so the thing aileron will bite at low speed, so as to not get aileron reversal, this, simply, is where the down going one creates drag, rather than doing its job, making the wing go in the direction of the aileron, not the oher way round


Oh gawd, not this again! If the model shows signs of adverse yaw then simply use the rudder to correct it, either my mixing it in the transmitter or actually using the rudder stick which someone (obviously in an absent-minded moment) went and put on the transmitter.

"Aileron reversal" is nothing at all to do with adverse yaw; it's a phenomenon which occurs in some full-size aeroplanes due to aeroelasticity (ie the airframe flexing due to aerodynamic loads). To be specific, "aileron reversal" occurs when using the ailerons twists the wings such that the change in incidence (which is in the opposite sense) produces a greater roll moment than the aileron input - the aileron is effectively acting as a servo tab to the wing.

This problem occurs in large full-size aircraft because ever since the Boeing 707 it has been quite common to reduce airframe weight by not making the wings particularly torsionally stiff; instead things like engines are mounted on long moment arms and are used as mass-dampers to counter the torsion loads. The problem is essentially eliminated by also using spoilers as the primary roll-control as spoilers don't produce the powerful torsion moments that ailerons do.

I've explained that in some detail because it should be pretty clear that the structures used on typical models, even quite large ones, are actually quite stiff in torsion - so the "aileron reversal" emchanism simply won't be an issue on all but the largest models.

And to further emphasise the point (the point that causes of adverse yaw is naff all to do with the ailerons) and hopefully dispel the myth - large transports/airliners which use spoiler roll control systems still experience adverse yaw. This is intersting because the spoilers only operate on the inside wing of the turn.

Adverse yaw is actually an inherent feature of the aerodynamics of rolling; it has nothing whatsoever to do with whatever devices are used to produce the roll.

PDR
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on May 01, 2005, 17:51:31 pm
Thanks PDR..that's put that dead-end to bed.  Worked most of my life on real aircraft and never heard of or experienced that phenomenon.  What may have kept this nonesense going is the system that 1920/30s aircraft had when entering a turn.  Some of them used diff aileron but on a model it's just plain daft to include it in this build.  Thanks for the detailed input.  :af

Started on the lanc tonight with getting the 'monster' battery soldered up.  ::)
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: CraigO on May 02, 2005, 04:44:08 am
and another thing ...:)

actually there is another thing,  if you do want to have differencial movement on the servos,  it doesnt have to be done with a progamable TX you can do it mechanically by arranging the neutral position of surface to correspond to the servo arm being offset 45 degrees.  that way as it moves up you get more movement than down :)

Gordon i was wondering about your wing loading.  did you work it out yet, or get a Tacho on the props at full power?

Craig
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on May 02, 2005, 10:08:11 am
QuoteGordon i was wondering about your wing loading.  did you work it out yet, or get a Tacho on the props at full power?Craig
....getting there Craig, just finished putting the gold connectors on the 'monster' and the new JR tacho looks the dogs dangly bits to use, so should get it ready for a run tonight hopefully.  :af
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: SteveM on May 03, 2005, 15:25:40 pm
Gordon and others,
Thanks for the pointers about servos, only the Galaxy site does not mention 'SD200' servos - what are they called in their catalogue?  Also Gordon mentioned a servo tray which he recommended - where did that come from?  Am I right in thinking that you mount the servo on its side, with the actuating arm protruding through a slot in the underwing skin?

Steve
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: BalsaDust on May 03, 2005, 17:32:06 pm
Hi Steve ...

QuoteAm I right in thinking that you mount the servo on its side, with the actuating arm protruding through a slot in the underwing skin?


Absolutely spot on  !

I also kept the servo as close as practical to the aileron so that the pushrod is kept very short. This will help reduce the slop in the linkage too.

regards
BD
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on May 03, 2005, 20:11:58 pm
I'd go along with BDs gen Stevie, sounds top notch.  The aileron servo mounting bits I fitted were:  Micro Wing Servo Mount (2x3) part number 5508013.  They come via J Perkins Distribution Ltd who are at www.jperkinsdistribution.co.uk  There are 2 mountings plus screws and restraining straps in each packet.  Hope that helps?  :af

New connectors now fitted, just to re-assemble the lanc and find the C of G and charge the monster!  :o
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: BalsaDust on May 04, 2005, 07:24:09 am
Hi Gordon, Won't be long now then !

Let us know how the new pack performs - I need to get a second pack for this season too !

I recently ordered a new canopy for my electric heli and a 2 cell li-poly from the US - it only took 4 days to get here! First time I've ordered from the States - I'm impressed with the service  :af

On another note, a guy in our club who used to be a gunner in the Lanc, has passed over some excellent reference material - I'll sift through it and hopefully I'll finally get around to getting the turrets finished !

Regards
BalsaDust

Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on May 04, 2005, 12:52:18 pm
QuoteOn another note, a guy in our club who used to be a gunner in the Lanc, has passed over some excellent reference material - I'll sift through it and hopefully I'll finally get around to getting the turrets finished !
...talk about landing on your feet!  :ev :ev

Got a feeling BD that it'll be a great battery but might be too heavy!  :'(

QuoteThanks for the pointers about servos, only the Galaxy site does not mention 'SD200' servos
...Steve, I've found them as 'Naro' and also 'Ripmax' on some sites.  The ones I have fitted are labelled 'Ripmax micro SD200'
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: johnr on May 04, 2005, 16:45:35 pm
Hi Gordon,
New boy here, congratulations on your Lanc, looking forward to hearing how it flies.  What is the wingspan or scale?  With reference to the ailerons, I have made two electric Lancs and they both have a poor response on ailerons.  One almost has to initiate the turn with rudder, otherwise the turn is huge.  Admittedly I did not put in differential, but to be honest I don't think it would have made much difference.
Regards,
John
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: BalsaDust on May 04, 2005, 17:21:18 pm
Hi John,
welcome to the gang !

You've built two ?!?!? Tell us more ! Any Pics ?

I've certainly found no problems with control authority on any surface - but I always put differential on aierons fitted to a flat bottomed section wing - just one of those things I do. If anything during the testing days of my Lanc, I found that the ailerons were too sensitive and have now reduced the throw a little.

regards
BalsaDust
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on May 04, 2005, 19:09:54 pm
QuoteYou've built two ?!?!? Tell us more ! Any Pics ?
...Another guru?  Are they TN plans or foamies..pics pics pics!!

Hey BD, that Spit of mine is really gutless; the new 2400MAh gave it another 166rpm but it's just useless and crawls into the air, more like a Fairey Battle than a Spit!  It's a 300 motor with gawd-knows what gear ratio and I've a spare 600 brand-new laying in the garage and a 35A ESC spare too.  Think I'd rather have 4 minutes of power than 10 minutes of yawn....mmmmmmm  :ev

Yahoo, got my pic on with my name at long last.  That's me in the background with the lanc at last years model fair...thanks Wiz!  :af
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: BalsaDust on May 05, 2005, 08:51:43 am
Hi Gordon, remind us which Spit is it you have ?

BD

PS Of course you should really put the Spit away and


get the Lanc going !!!  :ev
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on May 05, 2005, 10:09:32 am
Quoteremind us which Spit is it you have ?
...it's the Scorpio / Astra model.  Going to go into Motocalc tonight to see if this thing can be jivved up!

Quoteget the Lanc going !!! 


OK
...eerr got the message BD!  :ev
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: johnr on May 05, 2005, 15:27:51 pm
Hi Gang, here is a photo of my electric Lanc at 98" wingspan.  It normally carries the Grandslam Bomb, but here it was modified for the bouncing bomb at Brooklands in 2003.  30 cells and 14lbs weight.  Unitract retracts, one of a pair built by me and my mate.  I did have a smaller 74" hand launched electric Lanc with drop down undercarriage, but that got a touch of interference from the motors and went in deep and crisp and even! :'(
All the best, John


[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on May 05, 2005, 18:45:53 pm
John...ooooooer! Was that the meet that Tony Nijheus nearly blew his tail off?   :ev :ev  98" ooooooooH luverly!   oh, and wot a corker of a pic too!
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: BridlingtonFlyer on May 05, 2005, 19:22:39 pm
This thread has gone on for so long and been moved and started again lol.  Could somebody tell summerize whats happened in the thread about electric lancasters to save me reading for the next three days lol
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on May 05, 2005, 23:01:41 pm
Hi BF, welcome to the lanc thread and home of the electric lancaster (primarily the Tony Nihjeus model (is that the right spullung guys?)).  Strange as it may seem we have a couple of builders on the go and BD over in Jersey flies his lanc annoyingly regularly.  Me?  I'm just trying out my wellies and need a few more beers before I fly mine!  I've got bags of pics of the build, so if you ever need any inspiration on that front, just ask  :af  we also have regular guests in the form of Craig from a long way away over there somewhere and Arel from Oz, who has gone to sleep these past few months.  Also Tree Magnet comes on here too when the snows melt in Canada.  So we're an eclectic bunch to say the least.  'fraid no wimmin on here, but who needs them if you've got 4 merlins?  :ww   
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: johnr on May 06, 2005, 11:48:18 am
Hi Gordon,  yes that was the day, and boy was it windy.  Graeme Macfarlane took the excellent pictures, here is another. 


[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: BridlingtonFlyer on May 06, 2005, 12:01:48 pm
Four merlins thought they were engines not electric.  Would really appreciate the build pictures.  PM sent with my email address cheers
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: PDR on May 06, 2005, 12:29:23 pm
Quote from: Gordon on May 05, 2005, 23:01:41 pm
we're an eclectic bunch to say the least.


The "Eclectic Electrics" - didn't they have a no 1 hit in the 70s with the theme song to the film "Brushless in Seattle"?

PDR
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on May 06, 2005, 13:06:16 pm
QuoteThe "Eclectic Electrics" - didn't they have a no 1 hit in the 70s with the theme song to the film "Brushless in Seattle"?
....no way, for electrics it must have been the Electric Light Orchestra doing 'Mr Blue Sky' in the 70s surely PDR?   :ev :ev :ev  :af

BF...sent a PM, will see what I can do.

John...enough of these excellent pics, as it'll only give BD more ammunition to wind me up!   :ev :ev
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: BalsaDust on May 06, 2005, 16:08:18 pm
Quoteit'll only give BD more ammunition to wind me up!


Ammo ?


who need's Ammo !  :af

regards
BD
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on May 06, 2005, 21:26:30 pm
Quotewho need's Ammo ! 
....ouch!  :ev :ev :ev

Gotta get this Spit flying as I need to pass my OCU course before being posted to the HCU, so the lanc will wait for a day or so BD  :co
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: BalsaDust on May 06, 2005, 22:09:20 pm
Hi Gordon,
does that mean your starting the Halifax ?  :co

The islands are celebrating 60 years since they were liberated from the German occupation this weekend .... The Red Arrows and the BBMF are displaying here on Monday. Hopefully will try to get my Lanc in the air too !

regards
BD
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on May 06, 2005, 22:12:39 pm
Yeah BD, RAF Kinloss and Lossiemouth are supplying aircraft for these celebrations, but somehow Nimrods and Tornadoes dont quite match the BBMF  :'(

Quotedoes that mean your starting the Halifax ? 
...I wish.  Bought a few books on the Halibag recently to get to know the aircraft better.  Still prefer the Hercules powered Mk3 with perspex nose...must be me hankering back to 78 Squadron, as I did my last tour in the RAF with them (they fly Chinooks these days).
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: a.mclellan on May 07, 2005, 16:02:09 pm
Hi Chaps, Time to ask for some help (WILL IT FLY) well the lanc is now ready for at test run and maiden flight before painting and adding a few details. the facts so far, Model complete without battery's is 5lbs the two battery's are 1lb 13oz so total weight 6lb 13oz
the two battery's are 8 cell 3000, the four motors are 7.2 volt graupner speed 400 with a 2,33:1 gear. What size prop and will it fly off grass.

over to you.

regards
Andy    :-\
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: BridlingtonFlyer on May 07, 2005, 18:16:24 pm
Just a thanks for Gordon for sending me some of his construction pics.  Seems like you are all having a lot of fun.  Are they all your own plans or is it somebodys.  Has anyone thought of going brushless with li polys.  Would be expensive but you could put some bigger props on and still get longer flight times
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: BalsaDust on May 07, 2005, 18:34:12 pm
Hi guys,
I fly my Lanc with APC-E 8x6 props. I've checked the RPM & I get 6500 at the prop. I have used 8x4 props and some 9x4.5, but the 8x6's perform are the best of the bunch. My Lanc also weighs around 6lb 13oz, so if you check the RPM with your setup Andy and  get somewhere near 6500, you should be fine  :af

Not sure about grass, as I've only flown from hoggin & tarmac strips. My only concern would be ripping the undercart mounts out, but if your confident about the strength of yours then I'd give it a try

I've thought about the Lipoly route, but not brushless - way too expensive in my view and those gearboxes sound so right when its flying..

regards
BalsaDust
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on May 07, 2005, 21:45:23 pm
Won't need to add anything to what BD said other than my setup has 7x6.5 props via multiplex 2.3:1 gearboxes and Permax 400 motors.  Prop speed was 6500rpm and hope to check that in a day or so (yes BD, I've been saying that for ages, but managed 3 hours working on the Spit today...daughter at a party, so a big window of opportunity!).  Spit now has a direct drive 7.2v 600 Permax motor with a 'new' aka ex-lanc Jeti 35A ESC.  It's belt and braces stuff, but I'm not prrepared to spend anything more on the Spit.  Hope to bench test the setup tonight and fly it tomorrow if the wind goes down.  :af

BF
QuoteAre they all your own plans or is it somebodys.
...we mainly build from the Tony Nijheus plans which he supplied to Nexus who made the cnc frames and ribs and mouldings as a kit.

I'd never try mine on grass, the u/c is just not up to it.  :o

Incidentally Andy, you said your twin 3300MAh packs are 1lb 13 oz?  I weighed my 'monster' 4500MAh pack tonight (730g) and weighed the single 9.6v 3300 GP pack I have just to compare.  It was 580g (not the 475g Overlander state on their site!).  If that is doubled it would be 1.16Kg or about 2.5lbs?  Me, confused!   :-\
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: PDR on May 08, 2005, 21:10:16 pm
Quote from: Gordon on May 06, 2005, 13:06:16 pm
....no way, for electrics it must have been the Electric Light Orchestra doing 'Mr Blue Sky' in the 70s surely PDR?   :ev :ev :ev  :af


I thought some bright spark would come up with that one, but I lack the capacity for a more current hit watt do you think?

PDR
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on May 09, 2005, 09:58:01 am
Right guys, strictly not a lanc problem, but I have a feeling I'm missing something blindingly obvious here.   :ev

Got all the bits together last night for my Spit and ran it.  Had the Wattmeter plummed in and if I took the throttle up rapidly the ESC would cut-out; just gave enough current to spin the prop and then cut out. If I took it up steadily, once it reached about half throttle at 8.3A it would cut out too.....land of confusion here!  I'm using a 7.2V 600 motor with a 35A Jeti ESC and a 8.4V 2300MAh battery.   :'( :'(
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: PDR on May 09, 2005, 10:57:17 am
Quote from: Gordon on May 09, 2005, 09:58:01 am
Right guys, strictly not a lanc problem, but I have a feeling I'm missing something blindingly obvious here.  :ev

Got all the bits together last night for my Spit and ran it.  Had the Wattmeter plummed in and if I took the throttle up rapidly the ESC would cut-out; just gave enough current to spin the prop and then cut out. If I took it up steadily, once it reached about half throttle at 8.3A it would cut out too.....land of confusion here!  I'm using a 7.2V 600 motor with a 35A Jeti ESC and a 8.4V 2300MAh battery.   :'( :'(


To look at it methodically, there are only three reasons why the ESC would shut-down; over-current, over-temp or low voltage. It doesn't look like it's over-current, and it sounds very unlikely it's over-temping UNLESS you have a servo or Rx that's drawing a lot for some reason (try unplugging everything except the ESC to confirm). You're then left with low-voltage (BEC cut-off) - ie the cells might be knackered. Is the ESC BEC set to "soft" or "hard"? If it's set to "hard" then a bad cell could cause the voltas to drop and the BEC to trigger as soon as you started demanding serious current.

Try putting a voltmeter (DVM) across the battery pack and note the volts as you wind the throttle up - this is the only thing I can think of. Alternatively if you're in the Surrey/Hants area I have a spare Jeti 35A controller I could lend you to confirm that it isn't a controller fault (4mm connectors both ends, "pin = positive" config).

PDR
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on May 09, 2005, 11:37:33 am
Megga thanks PDR...I'll check that out and if no joy I'll try the lower 12A ESC I've got 'carefully'!  :af

QuoteAlternatively if you're in the Surrey/Hants
.....was there in '75, but now a Highlander!  :co
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: PDR on May 09, 2005, 12:28:36 pm
Quote from: Gordon on May 09, 2005, 11:37:33 am
Megga thanks PDR...I'll check that out and if no joy I'll try the lower 12A ESC I've got 'carefully'! :af


Final thought - try measuring the current with a DVM, or better still an analogue ameter, to look for "inrush" surges on acceleration. I've seen Wattmeters give some funny readings and it's possible it's not seeing the problem.

PDR
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on May 09, 2005, 21:37:12 pm
PDR...did as you suggested and found the cut-off voltage was 5.4V for the ESC.  It repeatedly cut out at this voltage and after reading about this ESC it's working as advertised.  Really need to either run a smaller prop or get a bigger battery pack.  I've got a bigger 7.2v 2400MAh pack that I'd need to think about regarding fitting it in, as this model is a pain where the pack is fitted.  Problems problems!  :co

Just been wondering.  If I have a 7 cell 'AA' sized 8.4v 2300MAh pack and a 7.2V 2400MAh sub-c pack, why use sub-c if they are heavier?  What is the advantage of the heavier cells?  :-\
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: PDR on May 10, 2005, 00:38:15 am
Quote from: Gordon on May 09, 2005, 11:37:33 am
Megga thanks PDR...I'll check that out and if no joy I'll try the lower 12A ESC I've got 'carefully'!  :af
.....was there in '75, but now a Highlander! :co


There can be only one...

PDR
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: PDR on May 10, 2005, 00:52:30 am
Quote from: Gordon on May 09, 2005, 21:37:12 pm
PDR...did as you suggested and found the cut-off voltage was 5.4V for the ESC.  It repeatedly cut out at this voltage and after reading about this ESC it's working as advertised.


Yes, that's where a jeti will cut-off, but when did it get down to this voltage? A 7-cell RC2400 pack should be able to deliver 30-40 amps without dropping to this sort of voltage until its 95% discharged, and pulling less than 10 A shouldn't do it! This suggests at least one bad cell in the pack which is dropping the volts down.

Quote
Really need to either run a smaller prop or get a bigger battery pack.  I've got a bigger 7.2v 2400MAh pack that I'd need to think about regarding fitting it in, as this model is a pain where the pack is fitted.  Problems problems!  :co


Well 6-cell packs are probably getting a bit marginal - I'd be loowing to run 8-cell packs as a minimum on this kind of setup.

Quote
Just been wondering. If I have a 7 cell 'AA' sized 8.4v 2300MAh pack and a 7.2V 2400MAh sub-c pack, why use sub-c if they are heavier? What is the advantage of the heavier cells? :-\


The AA-size (presumably NiMH) cells are only good for a couple of amps. Above this the voltage drops to something very low - maybe 0.8v/cell. If you're drawing 8/9 amps from a 7-cell pack of AA-size 2300NiMH then it wouldn't surprise me if the volts ARE dropping low enough to trigger the BEC cut-off. This could be the whole cause of your problem! This Spitfire - is it the Tony Nijhilus all-sheet one (free plan in RCME a couple of years back)? If so then I found that it needed an 8-cell pack of 800ARs to fly decently, and even then it was a bit of a brick so I switched to a 3-cell pack of Kokam 1500s and a 7.2v Speed 480. Now that flew VERY nicely! A cheaper alternative might be the Puffin 1050 "HiFlow" NiMH cells; these are cheap and fairly light, and an 8-cell pack should work fairly well. It would be better than a pack of 2300 "consumer cell" NiMH cells, anyway.

PDR
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: lavers on May 10, 2005, 08:18:50 am
Hi guys, just been reading the thread between Gordon and PDR and problems with the ESC, coincidently I ran the lanc up yesterday and had somewhat the same problem.

set up  2 x 7.2v 480
           2 x 7.2v 480BB
           50 amp esc
           4x 8x6 electric props
           8xGP3300 9.6v
Did a timed run on full throttle and acheived a quite credible 7 minutes before the ESC cut out (the ESC has an in built overheat cut off safety feature) so I presume thats why it cut out. The batteries where hot but not as hot so I could not hold them in my hand after the run, When the ESC cut back in I acheved another 3 minutes full throttle before cutting out again. I presume when I do a run outside and with some air over the ESC it may not cut out! it was warm indoors so I am not too worried about that. What I am worried about is that after I turned off the transmitter I went to disconnect the battery and the motors kicked into live on their own accord, luckily my face was away from the props due to past expience. I had to disconnect the receiver to close the motors down. Anyone heard of that happening before? I must add that there is no on/off switch between the battery and the ESC, when you connect the battery then the power is on. Don't see why they should fire up when the transmitter is off though.

Anyone got any answers?

regards

John
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: PDR on May 10, 2005, 10:05:49 am
Quote from: lavers on May 10, 2005, 08:18:50 am
Hi guys, just been reading the thread between Gordon and PDR and problems with the ESC, coincidently I ran the lanc up yesterday and had somewhat the same problem.

set up 2 x 7.2v 480
2 x 7.2v 480BB
50 amp esc
4x 8x6 electric props
8xGP3300 9.6v
Did a timed run on full throttle and acheived a quite credible 7 minutes before the ESC cut out (the ESC has an in built overheat cut off safety feature) so I presume thats why it cut out. The batteries where hot but not as hot so I could not hold them in my hand after the run, When the ESC cut back in I acheved another 3 minutes full throttle before cutting out again. I presume when I do a run outside and with some air over the ESC it may not cut out! it was warm indoors so I am not too worried about that. What I am worried about is that after I turned off the transmitter I went to disconnect the battery and the motors kicked into live on their own accord, luckily my face was away from the props due to past expience. I had to disconnect the receiver to close the motors down. Anyone heard of that happening before? I must add that there is no on/off switch between the battery and the ESC, when you connect the battery then the power is on. Don't see why they should fire up when the transmitter is off though.

Anyone got any answers?



Being methodical again, 3.3Ah for 7 minutes works out to around 28 amps averge current, or roughly 7 amps per motor. This is what I'd expect to draw from 480s anyway - certainly in the right ballpark. Have you actually measured the motor currents? The 480BB is reputed to be a rather jucy beast that drinks copious quanties of electrons when given the chance!

I would suggest that this is simply a normal response to the charge state of the batteries and I don't think the ESC is doing a thermal shut-down at all; this is a red herring. When you left it and then powered up again it probably triggered the "BCO over-ride" feature of the ESC rather than resetting the thermal shut-down, or the cells may have recovered a bit during the "off" period allowing the voltage to rise above the BCO threshold again.

I presume these motors are in gearboxes? The 480 (and especially the 480BB) are strange beasts to fully optimise and I would usually expect to see more than 8 cells used with them. I recon you might be better going for something with a higher kV - say 6v 400s. Failing that replace the GP3300s with a 3S lipo pack (eg the Kokam 3400 3s1p, Thunderpower 4000 3s2p or 4200 Gen II 3s2p. The Gen IIs are particularly nice cells; I use them in my Skycat!

First step to resolving this is to measure the current being taken by each motor. Then measure the pack voltage at the point of shut-down. See if either is inconsistant with a 7-minute battery duration because from what you've said I would suggest that what you have is simply behaving as I would expect.

As to the ESC running up the motors with the Tx off, this shouldn't happen at all unless there's another Tx on a near enough frequency to fool the receiver. What brand of ESC is it? A proper Jeti/Hacker or Schulze one shouldn't do this unless its faulty, although one of the Castle Contraption ones might well do. Having said that, basic RC good practice is to never have the Rx on without the Tx being on - you should always switch the Tx on first and off last.

HTH,

PDR
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: a.mclellan on May 10, 2005, 10:14:32 am
John, do you not have a switch on your speed controller if you do you need to switch that off first. The other thing is if you are doing a motor run test make sure you run fans in front and facing the motors I had two burnout last year on my running test some what expensive.


regards
Andy   :af
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on May 10, 2005, 13:11:45 pm
PDR...there IS only one, trouble is I'm a lowlander living in the Highlands  :'( 

You've been busy on the keyboard and to add to the safety question that John had, please remember that with the Tx switched off the Rx will happily pick up any split frequencies bouncing about the cosmos.  This can be from cars driving by to just operating a light switch.  I would also DEFINATELY fit an on/off switch as safety must always come before anything else.   :)  As for the hot ESC....make sure it's not covered over and I put holes in the fuselage where the forward air intakes are on the sides of the model.  Also my removable cockpit is a loose fit round the edges to allow air to enter where the pack and ESC are.  I never run the lanc inside and usually at the front of the garage where it'll stay cooler (hey, it's the Highlands, it's ALWAYS cool!   ;D  ).

As for my 'troubles' I've spare 7.2V 2400MAh Sanyo packs and a 9.6V 3300MAh GP pack I can use.  I'm going to bench test each type of pack and think about how to shoe-horn the pack in afterwards   :ev  PDR, your info was extremely useful and this glitch has certainly taught me much more about the ESC in particular.  :af

Oh, as for the lanc....nuffin' done BD  :'(
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: BalsaDust on May 10, 2005, 14:01:54 pm
Hi guys, all good advice here - only one thing to add from my corner ....... I run the ESC without the BEC operative and power the Rx with a conventional pack. I always regard the motors as armed and ready to go at any time - even if the ESC has gone into low voltage cut-off mode.

Gordon - ditto !

I was hoping to get the Lanc out this weekend, but I ended up with the dishwasher in bits over the kitchen floor (as you do) on Sunday ..... Damn thing still doesn't work .....grrrr


regards
Balsa (dont't buy Baumatic) Dust
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: lavers on May 10, 2005, 14:29:54 pm
Great advice guys, thanks.

PDR I think you are spot on with your theory that the ESC is acting exactly as it should do and it's in fact only doing it's job, when I finished the run up the batteries were obviously spent but the ESC was only just warm so I'm more than happy with the progress. (Funny how you always think the worst) I looked up the spiel about the ESC I have on the internet site and it does say that even though the TX may not be on it may be still possible for the motors to start up. I will have to fit a On/Off switch to be safe.
The motors and the ESC come from Helen Electronica, hlne.de a German company, so one presumes that thier equipment would be up to scratch, being as effeicient as they are!

many thanks

John
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on May 10, 2005, 16:15:23 pm
QuoteThe motors and the ESC come from Helen Electronica, hlne.de a German company, so one presumes that thier equipment would be up to scratch, being as effeicient as they are!
....hey BD, I assume your dishwasher isn't German?  Buy a Neff, it has never let us down......yet!!  :ww :ww :ev :ev :ev :ev
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on May 10, 2005, 23:21:14 pm
PDR...just ran the 7.2v 2400MAh sub-c pack and like u said it didn't cope with the voltage drop.  Now charging the 9.6v 3300 GP pack for a quick blast before some shut eye!.  ::)
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: lavers on May 11, 2005, 08:53:20 am
Hi guys, I have taken on board PDR's advice about using Lipo's, even more so now that the price is coming down to a more sensible level. The charger department seems to baffle me though. the difference in specifications and price seems vast. You tend to read lots of warnings about discharging and charging batteries correctly but the manufacturers seem to offer and array from really cheap to very expensive, has anyone got a take on a good sensible priced charger which will do the job safely.

John
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: BalsaDust on May 11, 2005, 09:11:31 am
Hi John, I use a Pro-Peak Mercury EX from Ripmax. I think I paid around £60 for it. It will do NiCd, NimH, Pb and Li-poly cells. Its a very versatile little beastie but the only disadvantage - and it is a very minor one - is that it will only do up to a 4s?p (14.8v) lithium pack.

I've not experienced any problems using Lipoly cells, but in my view, the key here is to fully understand the differences between NiCd and Lipoly cells. All rechargeable batteries will misbehave if treated badly - Lipoly cells have just had more coverage recently than any of the others. After all we do push them to their limits in electric models .....
Your mobile phone, digital camera and laptop all probably have lithium cells in them but have you heard any scary stories about those ?

Sorry went off on one there ......

Worley do a nice little lithium only charger that is setup using links to choose cell counts and I think is around £30

HTH
regards
BD
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: old artf on May 11, 2005, 09:35:53 am
Quote from: BalsaDust on May 11, 2005, 09:11:31 am
Your mobile phone, digital camera and laptop all probably have lithium cells in them but have you heard any scary stories about those ?



Actually, yes. Not for a while though.

Old Artf
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: PDR on May 11, 2005, 12:05:20 pm
Quote from: lavers on May 11, 2005, 08:53:20 am
Hi guys, I have taken on board PDR's advice about using Lipo's, even more so now that the price is coming down to a more sensible level. The charger department seems to baffle me though. the difference in specifications and price seems vast. You tend to read lots of warnings about discharging and charging batteries correctly but the manufacturers seem to offer and array from really cheap to very expensive, has anyone got a take on a good sensible priced charger which will do the job safely.


There aren't REALLY any mysteries about lithium cells, you just have to understand the basic principles. Lithium polymer cells do have failure modes that will result in a self-sustaining fire when metalic lithium comes into contact with gaseous oxygen. Most would regard this as a "bad thing"(tm) so the important thing is to understand what causes these failure modes. Essentially the fire happens if the interior of the cell gets above a critical temperature (around 150C) at which the electrolyte releases gaseous oxygen. There are two causes for the overtemperature condition - charging/discharging at too high a rate and subjecting the cells to excessive voltage. In the first case it's the self-heating and in the second it's an electrochemical whoopsie that does the damage, but this isn't important because we now have the information we need to avoid getting into trouble!

Charging:
Like most battery chemistries Lithiums prefer constant current charging, but they also have a voltage issue - if the voltage applied exceeds 4.2volts per cell they start producing that oxygen stuff. The chargers therefore are essentially constant-current chargers that are voltage-limited. They all charge at a specified rate (usually 1C or lower) until they reach the magic 4.2v/cell point (around 80% charge) and then they charge at constant voltage for the remainder, usually until the current drops to around C/20 which is the nominal "fully charged" point. This is why it usually takes a couple of hours to charge a cell at the 1C rate. It also follows that if you are charging a 2cell pack (voltage limit set at 8.4 volts) in which one of the cells has died, there is a risk that the remaining good cell could see more than 4.2 volts and catch fire. For this reason it is ESSENTIAL to check the voltage of a pack before putting it on the charger - for a 2-cell pack you'd be looking for at least 6 volts (the pack and charger instructs detail the full range of figures here). This is especially important where parallel packs are used. A simple DVM can be had from Maplin for £3-£5, and this makes it easy.

There is one further "gotcha" if the charger "autosenses" the cell count - if you put a partly discharged 3-cell pack on an auto-sensing charger it might decide it's a fully-discharged 4-cell pack, apply the wrong voltage limit and flambe the pack. The simple solution here is just to never use a lipo-charger in "auto" mode, and always check the settings 4-5 times before connecting the pack. A decent charger (either manual or automatic) will also check for correct polarity and credible voltage before starting the charge.

Use:
If you use the cells at too high a rate then they will overheat and catch fire. The rated currents for each type of pack are in the supplied instructions and usually also on the label on the pack, so you just need to make sure you KNOW what current you're drawing. With small packs a simple DVM will do this (although be careful not to extend the ESC leads too far because they don't like the extra cable inductance, especially on brushless ESCs). On bigger packs with currents above 10-20A you'll need a clamp-meter or clamp-probe; either an automotive one (from Ebay) or the Graupner one (around £50 from Puffin - there's a thread on this in "ask john" next door) - just make sure it's an DC one 'cos the cheap ones are AC only.

Over-discharge:
The final Lipo issue is that the cells become permanently damaged if they are discharged beyond a certain point - this point equates to 3v/cell under no load or around 2.6-2.7v/cell at full load. The ESC should take care of this (which is why you need the special "Lipo compatible" speed controllers), but the cheaper ones simply shut off at 3v/cell. The better ones vary the BCO voltage depending on the load. There's a thread here somewhere where Mike Rolls found that he got double the duration with one brand of ESC that he got with another for precisely this reason.

As for chargers, there are a range. The one I use is the Perkins one - £17 for a microprocessor controlled charger with manual switches for cell-count and charge rate. I've found it to be excellent. It only does up to three cells, but most people don't use more than this anyway.

That should be enough to be going on with... :)

PDR
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: lavers on May 12, 2005, 08:43:58 am
Hi guys, a couple of photos of a run up and progress so far

(http://www.rcmf.co.uk/uploads/runup2.jpg)

(http://www.rcmf.co.uk/uploads/runup1.jpg)

BD I have decided to use an external power source for the reciever but I'm a little unsure about how to do this, do I have to disonnect a lead from the ESC to the reciever or something? some guidance would be appreciated.

Thanks

John
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: BalsaDust on May 12, 2005, 09:18:27 am
Hi John,

you do indeed need to disconnect a wire ...... what you need to do is remove a pin in the speed controller socket that you normally plug into the Rx. The +ve lead is the one that needs removing. Red, brown or perhaps black with a red stripe depending on the make of your radio gear .....

(http://www.foxesonline.info/lancaster/nobec.jpg)

Once removed remember to insulate the pin with some heatshrink or tape to stop it from shorting out on anything as the pin will be live.

Model looks good by the way .... which props are you using ?


regards
BD

Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: PDR on May 12, 2005, 10:05:22 am
Quote from: lavers on May 12, 2005, 08:43:58 am

BD I have decided to use an external power source for the reciever but I'm a little unsure about how to do this, do I have to disonnect a lead from the ESC to the reciever or something? some guidance would be appreciated.



All you need to do is remove the positive wire from the lead between the Rx and the speed controller, leaving the negative wire and the signal wire intact. If you want to be clever you can seperate the wires in the middle of the lead, cut the positive one and then put something like a switch or even a pair of 2mm connectors in the wore so that you can re-configure it from "BEC" to "non-BEC at will.

PDR
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: leccyflyer on May 12, 2005, 10:21:13 am
The pins come out very easily if you use the point of a scalpel to lift up the tang on the socket, then put some very fine heatshrink to insulate the pin, fold the disconnected lead back against the other leads and secure with some wider hearshrink or tape.
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on May 12, 2005, 12:44:36 pm
Hey John, that takes me back, ah the sound of 4 motors scaring the hell out of the cat.  Bet SWMBO is giving you grief over not having treated that table yet?   :ev :ev

PDR...ran the Spitfires 3300MAh pack and wow!  450W at 34 (ish) amps and 5500 rpm at max chat.  The amps are a bit high for my comfort zone on the ESC, so a smaller prop might suffice.  Did some sums and the model will be 300g heavier after fitting the pack and the 600 motor.  Now have to figure out the best way to fit the pack in  :-X
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: PDR on May 12, 2005, 13:38:26 pm
Quote from: Gordon on May 12, 2005, 12:44:36 pm
PDR...ran the Spitfires 3300MAh pack and wow!  450W at 34 (ish) amps and 5500 rpm at max chat. The amps are a bit high for my comfort zone on the ESC, so a smaller prop might suffice. Did some sums and the model will be 300g heavier after fitting the pack and the 600 motor.  Now have to figure out the best way to fit the pack in  :-X


I wouln't worry about the amps - the static current is the worst case and it will drop by at least 10% in the air. If it's a Jeti 35A controller then 34amps won't damage it; if the current exceeds 35A it will just shut down anyway. I've never understood this business of de-rating speed controllers; they have over-current and over-temperature protection anyway, so I usually match the speed controller capacity to either the motor or battery maximum rating (whichever is the lower) so that the speed controller's over-current shut-down acts as a circuit-breaker to protect the motor or cells.

PDR
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Tree_Magnet on May 13, 2005, 01:21:20 am
I'mmmm back the snow is gone but still no lanc  :-[ :-[ :-[
kids and wife started baseball this week well there is 5 outta 7 nights gone oh ya wife plays summer hockey 6 outta 7 rain 7 outta 7 no fly nights :'(
I need 8 days a week maybe august

keep m flying its the only life i have

hahahahaha
it's not really that bad just seems that way. I have been working on the balsacraft hurricane its comming along I am just slow
Tom
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: BalsaDust on May 13, 2005, 08:41:30 am
Hi Gordon,
34 Amps for a Speed 600  :o  I reckon thats a bit high ..... unless its the S600BB which is a hot motor.

For a standard 8.4 v 600 motor and a direct drive 8x4 prop I'd expect around 18A

Which prop are you using ?

regards
BD
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: lavers on May 13, 2005, 08:51:34 am
Thanks for all the advice guys, I can honestly say without the information received from this thread the Lanc would have gone to the big dustbin in the sky a long time ago!

Mission accomplished with regard to adding a seperate power source to the receiver but not without a small mishap. With so many different coloured wires on the different componant parts I of course disconnected the wrong one! when I added the power source the motors started up on their own accord and the whole wing took off from the work bench, (full throttle as well) fortunately my knees stopped it hitting the ground, unfortunately the two inboard props cut my knees and I put my hand straight through the wing when I grabbed it. A bit of head scratching and a bit of repair work finished the job to great satisfaction.

The props are 8x6 BD, they look quite big dont they? proberly because the spinners are not on. I can tell you they hurt when they hit you!

Regards

John
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on May 13, 2005, 11:21:33 am
QuoteWhich prop are you using ?
...hi guys.  BD, yup it is too near my comfort zone regarding the ESC.  It's a 10x7 APC slimprop.  I've a 9x6 somewhere, so I'll get the wiggly amps down somehow!  :af

John....you can only be a true lanc owner once you've had a building mishap!  I bounced the wing off the concrete when my big feet tripped over the tripod it was clamped to  :ev

TM....Canada coming out of hiberation....hi again!  :af
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on May 15, 2005, 15:17:42 pm
PDR...I'll take this on board..interesting the different points of view on this matter  :co 
QuoteI've never understood this business of de-rating speed controllers; they have over-current and over-temperature protection anyway, so I usually match the speed controller capacity to either the motor or battery maximum rating (whichever is the lower) so that the speed controller's over-current shut-down acts as a circuit-breaker to protect the motor or cells
...mmmm!  :af

The major Spit mod is nearly finished, should be ready to fly next weekend..weather permitting off course!  :af
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: PDR on May 15, 2005, 22:16:49 pm
Quote from: Gordon on May 15, 2005, 15:17:42 pm
PDR...I'll take this on board..interesting the different points of view on this matter  :co  ...mmmm!  :af


I'm an engineer - where I don't understand, I question. If I don't understand the logic behind the answer I work it out for myself and then try out my conclusions. The process isn't infalible - it has let me down twice in twenty years (I also subscribe to the view that arrogance is only a problem for those with nothing to be arrogant about ;D )

Quote
The major Spit mod is nearly finished, should be ready to fly next weekend..weather permitting off course! :af


Bleeding weather! I've been trying to get some first-flights done for nearly 2 weeks...

Pete
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on May 15, 2005, 22:23:46 pm
QuoteI'm an engineer
..used to be too, but now a technical teacher for my sins.   :-[  Just got a simple velcro battery cover to make for the Spit and leave it to dry for a few days.  Next..the lanc!  :af

I used to be the Strike Command mechanical 'expert' for the Nimrod MR Mk2...my definition of an 'expert' is someone who knows more and more about less and less until they know everything about bu**er all  :ev :ev
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: PDR on May 15, 2005, 22:30:00 pm
Quote from: PDR on May 15, 2005, 22:16:49 pm
Bleeding weather! I've been trying to get some first-flights done for nearly 2 weeks...


Meant to add, I've speant the weekend refurbishing an all-original 100-year-old Slingsby, which sounds really interesting until I come clean and admit that the Slingsby product in question was a loft ladder, whose rivetted pulley mounts had pulled out. Had to drill out 100 year old steel rivets and replace them with bolts, and then re-rig the system with new cables. Fascinating stuff...  ???

Pete
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: PDR on May 15, 2005, 22:32:24 pm
Quote from: Gordon on May 15, 2005, 22:23:46 pm
I used to be the Strike Command mechanicall 'expert' for the Nimrod MR Mk2...my definition of an 'expert' is someone who knows more and more about less and less until they know everything about bu**er all  :ev :ev


Hmmm...we've just taken on the "total support" (everything beyond 1st line, and guarranteed 1st line availability) contract for the MR2s until the MRA4s make it into service. I believe they're looking for people with the right kind of experience - want me to make some equiries?

Pete
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on May 16, 2005, 13:02:05 pm
Hi Guys.  PDR...I also did the judging of the reliability and maintenance aspects of the MRA Mk4 contract (spent 4 glorious weeks at the MoD in London doing that).  Facintating insights into how a multi-million pound contract was organized and exectuted.  As for
QuoteI believe they're looking for people with the right kind of experience - want me to make some equiries?
, I'd say yes if I was single but I would need to speak to SWMBO (aka the C-in-C) before replying!  :af 
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: PDR on May 16, 2005, 14:07:37 pm
Quote from: Gordon on May 16, 2005, 13:02:05 pm
Hi Guys. PDR...I also did the judging of the reliability and maintenance aspects of the MRA Mk4 contract (spent 4 glorious weeks at the MoD in London doing that). Facintating insights into how a multi-million pound contract was organized and exectuted. As for , I'd say yes if I was single but I would need to speak to SWMBO (aka the C-in-C) before replying! :af


Hmmm...^2. Switching to PM rather than a public forum!

Pete
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Dave_S on May 16, 2005, 17:10:54 pm
Damn, just when it was getting interesting!

Dave S, next door to Russia ;)
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on May 16, 2005, 17:12:30 pm
QuoteDave S, next door to Russia ;)
...aka Finland?  :ev :ev :ev
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: PDR on May 16, 2005, 17:22:20 pm
Quote from: Dave_S. on May 16, 2005, 17:10:54 pm
Damn, just when it was getting interesting!


Wait a hundred years or so, then maybe the thruth will emerge. In the mean time the Nimrod MRA4 programme has been...err...a "learning experience" for both customer and contractor - it's an experience that my employer wishes not to repeat.  :(

Quote
Dave S, next door to Russia ;)


Well we're always interested in anyone who'll take a job all the way to the fin(n)ish... :af

PDR

Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Dave_S on May 16, 2005, 17:26:57 pm
:) I used to live a mile or so from Hawker Siddley at Woodford, the sound of the Nimrod engine tests was constant part of life back in the 70s

Cheers,
Dave S
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: PDR on May 16, 2005, 17:46:33 pm
Quote from: Dave_S. on May 16, 2005, 17:26:57 pm
:) I used to live a mile or so from Hawker Siddley at Woodford, the sound of the Nimrod engine tests was constant part of life back in the 70s


And now we've ruined even the nostalgia by changing them to big turbofans...

PDR
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Dave_S on May 16, 2005, 18:10:49 pm
damn, bet they hardly wake you up a mile away!

DS
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on May 16, 2005, 18:41:29 pm
Quotedamn, bet they hardly wake you up a mile away!
...I'll let u know Dave, as my patch is about mid-way between RAF Kinloss and Lossiemouth, so I'll have the MRA4 (eventually) and the EFA (aka Typhoon) 'gliding' over my roof.  :'(
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: PDR on May 16, 2005, 20:31:01 pm
Quote from: Gordon on May 16, 2005, 18:41:29 pm
...I'll let u know Dave, as my patch is about mid-way between RAF Kinloss and Lossiemouth, so I'll have the MRA4 (eventually) and the EFA (aka Typhoon) 'gliding' over my roof. :'(


The Typhoon OCU is currentluy operating from the factory at Warton for all sorts of mutually beneficial reasons. When the locals in Freckleton heard of the plan they raised a huge stink and demanded public meetings. At those meetings BAES pointed out that without "Case White" (operating the OCU from the factory) Warton would have to close and the company would retreat to Samlesbury - with it would go 9,000 jobs and 35,000 direct dependencies in the local consumer population; probably nearer 300,000 including the indirects. If freckleton wanted to lose its primary raison d'etre then so be it. The protest went a bit quiet after that. I mean, how could these people know to expect aircraft noise? What with buying a house next to the largest aircraft factory in the country an'all???

PDR
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on May 17, 2005, 08:01:53 am
QuoteWhat with buying a house next to the largest aircraft factory in the country an'all???
.....and buying a house between the 2 largest RAF stations methinks (ok, so Brize Norton runs Kinloss a close second).!  :ev :ev :ev
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: leccyflyer on May 17, 2005, 13:47:59 pm
Quote from: Gordon on May 16, 2005, 18:41:29 pm
...I'll let u know Dave, as my patch is about mid-way between RAF Kinloss and Lossiemouth, so I'll have the MRA4 (eventually) and the EFA (aka Typhoon) 'gliding' over my roof.  :'(


Gordon

That's interesting.

Do you know if anyone actually flies at the disused aerodrome of the Dallachy Strike Wing close to Spey Bay? I happened across it some years ago and have a long ambition to fly a Beaufighter model there. The runways when I visited were not really in a fit state for RC flying but some of the surrounding area was and I've always wondered whether anyone actually flies there.

Leccy
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on May 17, 2005, 14:56:27 pm
QuoteDo you know if anyone actually flies at the disused aerodrome of the Dallachy Strike Wing close to Spey Bay?
......LF, have a look at this site.  I used to be a member but work just got in the way.   :'(

http://www.dallachy.org.uk/


Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: leccyflyer on May 17, 2005, 15:35:58 pm
Gordon

That's fantastic :af

I'll get in touch with the club next time I am up there (I visit Aberdeen regularly) and see if they would allow a guest to fly in their midst. That would be an ambition realised to be sure. I'd best get the Beaufighter finished right away.

Cheers

Leccy
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on May 17, 2005, 18:58:15 pm
LF...glad to help.  Incidentally, there is part of the Banff aerodrome left that can be used for aeromodelling and of course that was part of the Banff Strike Wing of Beaufighters too..it would also be nearer to Aberdeen!   :af
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: leccyflyer on May 17, 2005, 19:48:03 pm
Gordon

As I said I've been to Dallachy and pass by Banff on the regular drive to Aberdeen. 

The Beaufighter has always been a great favourite of mine and after work on one of those fantastic long summer evenings, that are the best kept secret of the north east corner of Scotland, took a drive up through Huntly and the beautiful mountain scenery, ending up on Speyside. I didn't have a map with me and Dallachy isn't exactly that well signposted, but something drew me in the right direction and I ended up on Beaufighter Road, creeping along the peri track and the dispersal pans. I stopped and got out and walked about, with the fading sunlight streaming across the deserted field and walked out the runways and pottered around the control tower. Then I came across this beautiful black polished stone monument that commemorates "Black Friday". The field is so evocative and the story, which of course I'd read before, just came alive, so that I just stood there, a bit teary-eyed.

A signed print of Mark Postletwaite's "Black Friday" occupies pride of place on my office wall, and is actually burned into the screen of my monitor here now. I've had an ambition to fly a Beaufighter model there ever since. At the time I was still building a big 'un,12 foot span, an over-ambitious project that has long since been abandoned, but now I have a few small ones instead, one RCSA plan built, currently being converted to electric from 2xOS.10s, plus an HVP kit and a Flair kit - both unstarted. One day and your link will inspire me to get on and get one ready, now that I know there is a club site there.



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Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on May 17, 2005, 23:29:24 pm
QuoteOne day and your link will inspire me to get on and get one ready, now that I know there is a club site there.
....it's frustrating LF that I could never get the time to go and fly there.  I used to go to their open days and spectate, but 'family duties' or the weather just absorbed my time.  I fly near to my cottage now on an unused quarry access road at weekends and since it's a mile from my front door I can get there and back fairly quick; Dallachy is about a 40+ miles round trip in comparison, so the drawback is obvious.  Hope you get your wish to fly a 'whispering death' at Dallachy!  Incidentally, there is a large Beaufighter model hanging in the local hall beside Upper Dallachy, but it doesn't seem to have been made for R/C.  :ww
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: lavers on May 19, 2005, 16:04:18 pm
BD, I've been looking for a suitable landing site for the Lanc but not been too successful, can you give me an approximation of how far she rolls on landing. I've found a piece of tarmac that is about 40 to 50 metres long, is that enough?

regards

John
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: BalsaDust on May 19, 2005, 16:22:11 pm
Hi John, the tarmac I fly from is 100m long .... She takes off in about 20-35 m but the roll out is longer. I'd say about half the runway maybe a bit more depending on wind conditions.

What do you have at each end of the tarmac ?

regards
BalsaDust
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on May 20, 2005, 00:15:59 am
QuoteWhat do you have at each end of the tarmac ?
....anxiety!  :ev :ev :ev

Spit now complete and couldn't believe my luck; she was perfectly balanced first time I tried her...wish my luck was like that with the lanc!  :'(  Now working to get both ready for some runs.  Progress!  :af
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: BalsaDust on May 20, 2005, 08:37:07 am
Quote....anxiety!   :ev :ev :ev 



;D ;D

Scary thought of the day ........ Its now four years since I first started to build the Lanc.   Good Grief !

BalsaDust
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on May 20, 2005, 08:52:51 am
QuoteScary thought of the day
...still got to fly mine!  :-[ :-[ :-[
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: lavers on May 20, 2005, 19:41:13 pm
Hi BD,
at the approach I have trees and at the end I have cars! It's actually the car park at a place called the Last Drop Hotel situated at a place called Bromley Cross in Lancashire. The runway is actually an extension of the car park about 200 metres long, it's used as a factory for weddings but there's  a fantastic open field flying place above it. They use an overspill car park near fields where I fly and it's really perfect in everywhere apart from the odd inconsiderate car driver wanting to drive past! To be fair one car in every half an hour aint so bad. I would be hoping that it would be fairly safe to land, but you never know!

Will be posting updated pictures of progress so far and we're not far off flying. (that's flying Gordon)

Kind regards


John
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on May 20, 2005, 20:48:26 pm
Quoteand we're not far off flying. (that's flying Gordon)
...ouch!  :'(

Did my first run witrh the monster battery tonight...got a clear 8 minutes at max chat.....the figures from my parallel circuit were a constant 11.6A from 81W to 74W when the ESC said 'enough' at 6V and shut off the whirly things.  RPM was 5600 from the start to 5200 revs at shut down.  Battery was rather warm at shut down, but comforted myself with the knowledge that flying at max chat ain't going to happen on this model.  Now where's the Spit?  ::)   
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: BalsaDust on May 21, 2005, 21:24:39 pm
Hi Gordon,
sounds good to me .... good luck with the first flihht  :af

Current figure looks a bit odd though, but prop RPM is the important one ! and an 8 minute run is fine - some of my flights have been 3 or 4 minutes only. Remember to land well before the pack runs out . Maiden flights only need be one or two circuits.
Check , charge and off you go again

regards
BalsaDust
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on May 21, 2005, 22:24:28 pm
Hi BD....yup, she sounded LOUD...luvverly!   :af  Now to get the strapping done for the battery once the C of G is fixed.

QuoteCheck , charge and off you go again
...initial charge took nearly 2 hours!  :ev :ev  Hope the second charge is a tage shorter!  :af


Yup...it was by 35 minutes!  :'(
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: SteveM on May 23, 2005, 16:39:35 pm
Hi, Guys
I don't think I was dreaming it but I swear somewhere on this thread someone recommended a (Japanese I think) gearbox which I looked up and was interested to see that it employed a mounting suspended from an 8mm carbon tube, instead of the more common square beam method.  I thought at the time that that seemed a good idea but do you think I can find it again?  Can anyone enlighten me?

Steve
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: lavers on May 23, 2005, 20:51:08 pm
Only one I can think of is the japanese site www.aircraft-world.com
They have loads of different gearboxes

John
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on May 23, 2005, 22:34:58 pm
Sorry Steve, don't have a Scooby on that one  :co

Had Gyronuts pay a call on us Northern folk and while we were chewing the fat I mentioned that I needed to fit a new set of velcro straps for the new battery.  He mentioned that B&Q do a velcro gardening gismo that has a velcro base with an integrated strap that wraps round the plant (aka 'the battery') and sticks onto the base.  Sounds ideal for any model use and I'm off for a nosey at the weekend to get one. 
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: lavers on May 26, 2005, 08:14:37 am
Hi guys, bit of advice would be appreciated here. "soldering" if I am going to try and replicate some sort of scale landing gear what is the best stuff to use for soldering. I have tried using the normal "wire" that comes with the retracts but I can't get it to solder correctly. Do you think brass tubing would fit the job and does anyone know how well it solders?

Regards

John
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on May 26, 2005, 13:30:49 pm
Hi John...had the same problem until I bought a 100 Watt soldering iron off of E-Bay (£5.99 incl postage)?  :af  I used 60/40 solder and worked fine.  Never tried it on brass, but would you not need a brazing rod, flux and torch?  :-\
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: lavers on May 26, 2005, 15:08:57 pm
Thanks Gordon, just been out and bought the very same items form B&Q so I Will give them a try and see what happens

John
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: gyronuts on May 26, 2005, 17:29:35 pm
Some pics of Gordons Lanc. Lovely machine. Thanks for the coffee . Bill

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Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on May 26, 2005, 21:25:08 pm
Hey Bill, they are better pics than I put on myself....

Regards....from the Luddit  :ev :ev

John..so Bill wasn't high on fresh Northern air then?  They do exist, so I'd best get off to B&Q asap!  :af
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Arel on May 27, 2005, 12:49:20 pm
Gordon's Lanc

                           
Is required for the next

                                                                               
1000 Bomber Raid

                                                                                                                             
:P :D :D
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on May 27, 2005, 12:55:50 pm
Hi Arel...where u been these past eons?

1000 bomber raid?  Where's your lanc then?   :ww
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: PDR on May 27, 2005, 13:04:56 pm
Quote from: lavers on May 26, 2005, 08:14:37 am
Hi guys, bit of advice would be appreciated here. "soldering" if I am going to try and replicate some sort of scale landing gear what is the best stuff to use for soldering. I have tried using the normal "wire" that comes with the retracts but I can't get it to solder correctly. Do you think brass tubing would fit the job and does anyone know how well it solders?


To solder Piano Wire you need it to be very clean (bright & shiny) and you need a big iron. It can also be useful to use an aggreasive flux (Bakers Fluid or Fluxite paste) but if you do you MUST throughly wash it afterwards as the flux will corrode everything. You can do it using a cheap gas blowtorch, but a big electric iron is better because the blowtorch will tend to overheat the wire and make it soft rather than springy. Brazing will always soften the wire, so you'd need to be selective about where you use it.

HTH,

PDR
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: lavers on May 27, 2005, 13:19:38 pm
Thanks PDR I assume if I am going to use a blowtorch then silver solder would be the order of the day? Does anyone know of any shops that sell it because it's like rocking horse manure round here.

Thanks

John
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: PDR on May 27, 2005, 13:41:49 pm
Quote from: lavers on May 27, 2005, 13:19:38 pm
Thanks PDR I assume if I am going to use a blowtorch then silver solder would be the order of the day? Does anyone know of any shops that sell it because it's like rocking horse manure round here.


You can use ordinary soft solder with a torch; remember to heat the job (rather than the solder), then take the torch away and wipe the solder into the joint. I would emphasise that soft-soldering with a torch takes skill and experience if you want to preserve the temper of the wire.

As for silver solder (which will definitely soften the piano wire), around here both homebase and B&Q stock it. But it's not at all clear which items are silver solder, which are brazing rod, which are bronze-brazing rod etc etc. You have to read the labels carefully. Failing that, try looking for welding suppliers in the yellow pages.

PDR
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on May 28, 2005, 10:57:56 am
Solder?  Any plummers merchants will stock it (although it will be lead free and can be a pain to flow unless you use a good quality flux).  PDR got it spot on with the heat and cleanliness  ('sweating on the solder onto the heated surface is the way to go in my opinion).  I got my silver solder from B&Q.  My 100W soldering iron is the dogs knob and well recommended.  Tempering is a real pain as my undercarriage will need re-tempering since I brazed the pins that are inserted into the Eurokit retracts and I'm not 100% happy with the hardness of the joints (I think they'll be prone to bending unless my landings are feather soft...some hope!).  :af
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on May 29, 2005, 20:46:35 pm
Lanc C of G got an hours time this evening.  Gyronuts B&Q velcro thingy hasn't made it this far North, so got a cheaper version of heavy duty velcro at Homebase (made by Velcro surprisingly?  ;D ).  Sticks like the proverbial brown stuff to the duvet though.  Pics to follow and hopefully of a quality Gyronuts sent in a few replies back!  :af 

Oh, when I loaded the lanc the pins on the U/C bent...ahem, tempering?  Wot tempering?  Better get it done ramorra!  :ev

Noticed that the lanc goes decidedly nose-up when the undercarriage goes up.  Not worried, as the 2 lumps retract behind the C of G anyway.  I decided to put the C of G slightly nose-down, so that the trim should be minimised when the undercarriage does goes up?.... :co 
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Arel on May 30, 2005, 09:57:52 am
Hey Gordo!

I've just had the best idea.....

Now it sounds like your Lanc is getting a bit portly. Not a problem in full size aircraft as they take off at much higher weight than they could ever land at. But they lose weight from fuel consuption and flushing the bogs over France etc...

How about you make your 4lb battery pack into an Upkeep or Grandslam bomb...and drop it just before landing?

Might save your UC.

Ok Ok I'll shut up now :D :D

Rich
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on May 30, 2005, 10:45:31 am
QuoteOk Ok I'll shut up now
.....????????????????  Amen!  :ev

Got the undercarriage off tonight, so I'll get those pins hardened tomorrow.  Walked thru my school with the lanc today to show the model club members...sort of 'argent provocature' and certainly unsettled a few lessons in progress with the rubber-necking that was going on...tish tish, totally unprofessional......but fun!  :ev
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: BalsaDust on May 31, 2005, 14:35:06 pm
Talking undercarriages, I'm looking at making some legs with working suspension ..... I've always felt that the leg length needed to clear the retract cylinders is too long for scale.

So, I reckon that by using springs that are compressed by the weight of the model when the wheels are down, will make it sit nicely on the ground. When there's no weight on the wheels the springs will extend and let them retract into the nacelles and clear the retract cylinder.

Of course it'll also be quite cool ...... :co

regards
BD
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on May 31, 2005, 16:25:02 pm
QuoteOf course it'll also be quite cool
..yup, and once you design and fit them u can tell us all the problems that we'll avoid!  :ev  True though, the undercarriage does the job but it looks like an 'add-on' and is the least attractive part of the model.  Now Walts made a corker of a set didn't he?  :co
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: lavers on June 03, 2005, 14:11:04 pm
Hi Guys,
I have made the decision to go with Lipo Cells on the Lanc. Only one problem, I haven't got a clue what to buy. Can anyone suggest a set up to run with Lipo's. Charger, batteries and speed controller. Do I need to buy a seperate controller to run Lipo's. I have £200 burning a hole in my pocket. Any suggestions greatly recieved.

thanks

John
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Chewy on June 03, 2005, 15:08:40 pm
Quote from: lavers on May 27, 2005, 13:19:38 pm
Thanks PDR I assume if I am going to use a blowtorch then silver solder would be the order of the day? Does anyone know of any shops that sell it because it's like rocking horse manure round here.


http://www.cupalloys.com/content.php

Paul
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on June 03, 2005, 19:51:12 pm
QuoteI have made the decision to go with Lipo Cells on the Lanc. Only one problem, I haven't got a clue what to buy.
...can't help u on this one John, but I sent an IM to Wiz 3 weeks ago about getting a 'LiPo for Luddites' thread set up as a one-stop-shop for us addicts hooked on NiMh.  He thought it was a great idea and.....nothing!  Still waiting for his input.  Maybe you could ask him again?   :af

Brazed some reinforcing lugs onto the base of the undercarriages this afternoon, so now each single pin does not take any bending loads.  This way, the lugs sit on the square aluminium castings of the Eurokits.  Hope to get a pic on here in a day or so.  :ww
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: BalsaDust on June 04, 2005, 10:43:37 am
Hi guys,
I've been using 10x3300mAh NimH's in my Lanc for some time now and have been considering swapping to Lipoly cells. My set up is a little different to the usual in that I'm using 4.8v motors, wired as two series pairs, each pair of motors in parallel with the other.

What this means is that each pair of motors is fed with 12 volts and draws about 14A at full throttle.

To swap to Lipoly cells would mean using a 3 cell pack - 11.1 volts - and choosing a pack that would happily sustain a current draw of at least 28A. I would reccomend choosing a pack that has a much higher continuous currrent rating than the actual current draw of the power train. In my case say 40A. I think PDR suggested on this thread using a speed controller matched to the max current draw of motor so a 40A Lipoly aware ESC would be my choice.

So to recap: a 3 cell Lipoly pack, 40A continuous rating and a 40A Lipoly ESC.
You'll notice I haven't mentioned final pack capacity yet, as that will be determined by the current draw of your setup. If I choose to use 2100mAh Thunderpower cells rated at 10-12C continuous (21-24A) I would need two of these packs in parallel with each other to safely draw 40A from them. This would result in a pack capacity of 4200mAh.

If your using 4 motors in parallel in the model, then the peak current drain could be 48A. You would also need to use a 2 cell lipoly pack, and would need 3 of these in parallel giving a safe current drain of 63-72A. Of course this is much more than you need, but the 48A draw is well within the limits of the battery.

Jeti do a 45-50A lipoly safe speed controller (JES045) which would be OK for 48A, but check other makes for a higher current rating.

As far as chargers are concerned I would always try to buy the best I could afford. Look for one that will do all of the cell types that you might use, NiCd, NimH, Pb and Lipoly and able to charge higher cell counts than you currently use. This will set you up with a charger that is as future proof as possible.

I hope that all this has been helpful rather than confusing, but if you let me know which motor, prop and gearbox your using I'll try to be more specific.

regards
BalsaDust


Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on June 04, 2005, 22:40:20 pm
Hi guys..that stuff should be put in a LiPo luddite thread BD.   :af  As promised here's a couple of pics of my 'new' undercarriage and the 4500MAh battery position.  The balsa at the rear of my battery is used to fit it into the correct C of G position each time.

(http://www.rcmf.co.uk/uploads/4500MAhbatteryposition..JPG)

(http://www.rcmf.co.uk/uploads/StrengthenedUndercarriage.JPG)
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on June 04, 2005, 22:47:23 pm
Oh and here's one for Arel..he likes this one!  :ev

(http://www.rcmf.co.uk/uploads/Lancinthesunset.JPG)
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Arel on June 05, 2005, 06:36:15 am
I've just spent twenty minutes looking for my "Great War Movie Themes" tape with no luck Gordo :(

That brooding pic needs some music... :)
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: lavers on June 05, 2005, 08:45:49 am
QuoteIf your using 4 motors in parallel in the model, then the peak current drain could be 48A. You would also need to use a 2 cell lipoly pack, and would need 3 of these in parallel giving a safe current drain of 63-72A. Of course this is much more than you need, but the 48A draw is well within the limits of the battery.



Thanks for that BD, I sort of understood it but could you explain a bit more about  "current drain" and why it's important

Regards

John
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on June 05, 2005, 10:20:17 am
QuoteI've just spent twenty minutes looking for my "Great War Movie Themes" tape with no luck Gordo

That brooding pic needs some music...
.....tried to clean out the gutters yesterday and it all came to a halt when SWMBO said 'Angels One-five' came on the telly.  Now THERE'S a great theme tune...the RAF March!  What with the Dambusters, 633 Squadron and the RAF march I was on parade again (aka SOG, 'sad ol' git)!  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: BalsaDust on June 05, 2005, 11:08:29 am
Nice pics Gordon ... Looks like everything is all set and ready to go ! :af

John, Lipoly batteries like any other battery have a limit to the maximum current they are able to supply.  I say supply because it is the motor/prop setup that determines how much current is drawn from the battery. If you get the motor setup wrong, then you risk trying to draw more current than the battery can safely supply.

When you buy a lipoly battery it will have a max continuous current rating of say 10C with a peak of say 14C which it could sustain in short bursts. For a battery with a capacity of 1000mAh these figures would equate to current values of 10 Amps and 14 Amps respectively. If you buy a 2000mAh battery then you'd be looking at 20 and 28 Amps.

The critical thing with Lipoly batteries is that if these figures are exceeded, then there is a danger that the cell will be damaged and could explode and catch fire.

The speed controller must also be able to handle the current that the motor/prop is trying to draw from the battery and ideally should have a rating that is higher.

HTH,

regards
BalsaDust
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on June 05, 2005, 13:33:58 pm
....and just to add on from what BD was saying:  From my experiences with the Spit you want to have a sufficient 'difference' in voltage from what the battery can deliver and what the ESC has as a cut-off voltage (cut-off to the props, as the ESC will supply voltage to the servos if your lanc becomes an expensive glider!).  So, as BD says, the motor/prop combination sets the current drain, but as I found, if I started with only a (7.2v - 5.5v) difference between battery and ESC, then I had bags of capacity, but little voltage 'difference' to rely on.  The result?  A gloriously powerful, but short lived, bench test!  :co

QuoteNice pics Gordon ... Looks like everything is all set and ready to go !
...Gulp....true!  Going to taxi test her this afternoon if Him Upstairs would shut off the rain!  :'(


1630...still raining!  :'(
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: PDR on June 05, 2005, 23:11:01 pm
Quote from: lavers on June 03, 2005, 14:11:04 pm
I have made the decision to go with Lipo Cells on the Lanc. Only one problem, I haven't got a clue what to buy. Can anyone suggest a set up to run with Lipo's. Charger, batteries and speed controller. Do I need to buy a seperate controller to run Lipo's. I have £200 burning a hole in my pocket. Any suggestions greatly recieved.


What motor setup are you using? If it's the usual 4 x 6v speed 400s in parallel then you're potentially looking at three cells at 60Amps, and that means something pretty big (probably a 3s3p pack of 2000Ah cells). That's pretty expensive! Alternatively some have used 4.8v speed 400s wired as 2 series-pairs in parallel with eachother. That's a more reasonable setup at around 30Amps. I have heard that the 4.8v motors will perform well on 2-cells, but I have no firm evidence to support this - if they will then you're looking at 4-cell packs for the series-parallel pair, and for 30A you'd be looking at either 4s2p packs of 1500mAh cells (or bigger) or something like a 4s1p pack of the Kokam 3400 cells (if their specs are true!).

One thought - if you go for a 4s2p setup I'd suggest buying seperate 4s1p packs and connecting them together in a wiring harness in the aeroplane. This not only allows you to replace the packs individually in the event of failure, it also allows you to charge them seperately to maintain "balance" (I'd suggest charging them seperately every 5th or 6th charge, and charging them in parallel the rest of the time for faster charging). It also allows you to use the seperate 4s1p packs in other, smaller models should you wish.

Choice of Speed Controller is heavily dependant on the number of cells and the current requirements (obviously!). There are lots of speed controllers that are good for 2-3 cells, but fewer are good for 4. Likewise the choice of 30-40 amp speed controllers is wider than that for 60+ amps. You might even want to consider using two 20 or 30A speed controllers rather than one big one because it may be both lighter and cheaper. Chargers are easier - LiPo chargers are essentially very simple beasts compared to nicad/nimh chargers - if you're going for a 3-cell setup then the simple Perkins one is excellent and only costs £16-£17. For that price you can afford to get two so that you can charge two packs in an evening. If you're going four-cell then the choice is more restricted, but you really don't need to spend over a hundred quid on one with lots of bells and whistles that you'll never use. Remember that LiPos won't fast charge - they'll take at least 80 minutes to recharge from the cut-off point, but they hold their charge fore days or weeks, so you don't need to repeak them before each outing (or even each flight) like you do with the nickel batteries.

Tell us what motor setup you're using and we can recommend specific products.

PDR
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: gyronuts on June 06, 2005, 00:14:40 am
Andy asked me to post this photo of his Lanc undercarriage. Bill

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: BalsaDust on June 06, 2005, 09:33:53 am
Quote
I have heard that the 4.8v motors will perform well on 2-cells, but I have no firm evidence to support this


2 years worth of flights of my Lanc any good ??  :af

BD
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: lavers on June 06, 2005, 09:47:59 am
PDR, thanks for the very useful info, not that I've got the brains to utillize any of it! What is the meaning of the number letter combination on lipos, ie 4s2p, 3s3p etc?

here is my set up;

Inboard motors 2 x 480BBs - 46mm x 28mm
                                       weight 100 grams
                                       voltage 7.2v
                                       rpm 22000
                                       max current 30 amps

Outboard motors 2 x 480s -  the same spec apart from;
                                       max current 24 amps
                                       rpm 17000

4 x 8x6 electric props
50 amp  speed controller
8 x GP 3300 9.6v
Seperate 4.8v power source for the reciever

I'm trying not to be ignorant but I really don't understand lipos me!

Regards
John
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: BalsaDust on June 06, 2005, 10:29:20 am
Hi John,
are you using gearboxes with those motors ?

A Graupner S480BB can spin a 6*4 prop at around 16k RPM but will draw 20A .... If your using direct drive with an 8*6 then the current will be much higher - possibly too high for the motor to sustain.

As to the figures for the Lithium cells, a single 1000mAh (or any other capacity) cell is 3.7 volts. Two cells in Series is therfore 7.4 volts and is referred to as 2S

3 cells inSeries is 11.1 volts and is referred to as 3S

If you then take your single 1000mAh cell and wire another one in Parallel with it, then the voltage is still 3.7 Volts, but the capacity is now 2000mAh. This configuration is a 1s2P

If you're with me so far then a 3s2p battery is 3 cells in series with one another (11.1v) with another two sets of 3 cells in parallel with them, therefore trebling the capacity. This also has the effect of trebling the current ability of the whole pack.

(http://www.foxesonline.info/images/lipoly.gif)

If each cell in the above diagram is a 1000mAh cell with a max current rating of 10C, then the pack will be rated at 3000mAh and be able to supply 30 Amps

regards
BD




Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: lavers on June 06, 2005, 11:59:43 am
Thanks for that BD, it has all become much clearer. Yes I do have gear boxes on the motors, 3 : 1 I think.
Now I understand what PDR means when he suggests adding single packs to a wiring harness in the aeroplane. So just to make it clear if I wanted to use individual 1000mAh cells and I required 11.1 volts and 4000mAh, then the configuration would be 3s4P?
Would you recommend going with configuration above as PDR suggests or have you a different take?

kind regards

John
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: a.mclellan on June 06, 2005, 12:34:12 pm
Quote from: gyronuts on June 06, 2005, 00:14:40 am
Andy asked me to post this photo of his Lanc undercarriage. Bill
Thanks Bill
Andy
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: a.mclellan on June 06, 2005, 12:40:46 pm
Hi Chaps I thought I would keep you posted on the progress. Have ordered four new Graupner 6v speed 400 with a 1:85 .1 geared motor. I want to try a test flight before she gets a coat of paint and added detail.Will let you know the result.


Regards
Andy :af
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: BalsaDust on June 06, 2005, 12:44:56 pm
Hi John,
Yep - you've got it !  :af

On balance, I'd go with the setup PDR reccomends. This would mean (in the example we are referring to) you would need to get four 1000mAh 11.1 volt Lipoly packs.
My reasoning behind this is that the individual packs could easily be used in any other models that could use them, rather than just the Lanc ...

These packs could all be connected in parallel with each other using a special connecting strip which is available commercially. Again check its current ability, as you wouldn't want it to be the weak link in the chain ......

However, before purchasing anything you need to know the maximum current your motors will draw under load. Armed with this info you can then determine the capacity and rating of Lipoly cell to order.

regards
BalsaDust

Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: BalsaDust on June 06, 2005, 12:48:16 pm
Quote
I want to try a test flight before she gets a coat of paint and added detail.Will let you know the result.



Can't wait !

Good Luck
BD
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: a.mclellan on June 06, 2005, 15:04:14 pm
Thanks DB  :af

Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: lavers on June 06, 2005, 22:05:14 pm
Gordon, the wattmeter that you bought from astroflight, can you tell me how you wire it into your set up to get measurments. I need to buy one to measure the amps I'm pulling and I remember you recommended this one.

Kind regards

John
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: PDR on June 06, 2005, 23:23:52 pm
I see that others have already answered your question about the pack terminology, so I won't repeat what they've said except to clarify that when I suggested a wiring harness in the airframe I didn't mean for each individual cell, but for each *series* pack. For example if you end up with a 3s4p I'd suggest buying four pre-made 3s1p packs and wiring these together in parallel with a wiring harness in the aeroplane. This allows for balancing and also allows you to use the packs as 3s1p, 3s2p etc packs in other models.

Now the next bit caused me some consternation:

Quote from: lavers on June 06, 2005, 09:47:59 am

here is my set up;

Inboard motors 2 x 480BBs - 46mm x 28mm
                                        weight 100 grams
                                        voltage 7.2v
                                        rpm 22000
                                        max current 30 amps

Outboard motors 2 x 480s -  the same spec apart from;
                                        max current 24 amps
                                        rpm 17000

4 x 8x6 electric props
50 amp  speed controller
8 x GP 3300 9.6v
Seperate 4.8v power source for the reciever



The 480BB is known as a pretty "hot" motor with an appetite for serious amounts of current - it may not be the best choice for this kind of use. The total package above will draw about 500watts from the battery and deliver about 250-300watts to the propellers. This is a LOT of power in electric terms, and may well be overkill - are you sure the model needs it? To deliver 50Amps you're looking at some pretty big lipos - you're looking at a pack which (at UK retail prices) is going to consume something like three quarters of your £200 budget, and that's for ONE pack. Remember they take an hour and a half to charge, so that's basicly one flight per session!

PDR
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on June 07, 2005, 13:01:08 pm
QuoteI have heard that the 4.8v motors will perform well on 2-cells, but I have no firm evidence to support this


2 years worth of flights of my Lanc any good ??  BD
.................... ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: PDR on June 07, 2005, 13:09:35 pm
Quote from: Gordon on June 07, 2005, 13:01:08 pm
2 years worth of flights of my Lanc any good ??  BD
.................... ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D


Well, I dunno - two years is hardly a full service life and one should really wait for a statistically valid sample...

::) ::) ::)

PDR
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on June 07, 2005, 18:29:36 pm
QuoteWell, I dunno - two years is hardly a full service life and one should really wait for a statistically valid sample...
....ahem PDR, who's tongue is in who's cheek here?   :ev :ev :ev :ev   Better call to get a Component Case History (in joke here guys) eh?   ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: PDR on June 07, 2005, 18:51:05 pm
Quote from: Gordon on June 07, 2005, 18:29:36 pm
....ahem PDR, who's tongue is in who's cheek here? 

Quote

Now look, the woman was a willing participant - in fact she led me on. I'm a practicing monogamist; I'm just not very good at it.

Quote
Better call to get a Component Case History (in joke here guys) eh?   ;D ;D ;D


Well I'm not sure - the recording of flying hours seems to have been at best patchy, so on-going RCM would be building a house of cards on quicksand - in fact the whole thing HUMS...

(sorry - more in jokes)

PDR
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on June 07, 2005, 18:58:19 pm
PDR...sorry to correct you, but shouldn't the whole thing be LUMS?   :ev :ev  (sorry guys...LUMS = Lancaster Usage Monitoring System).
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: PDR on June 07, 2005, 19:05:35 pm
Quote from: Gordon on June 07, 2005, 18:58:19 pm
PDR...sorry to correct you, but shouldn't the whole thing be LUMS?   :ev :ev (sorry guys...LUMS = Lancaster Usage Monitoring System).


ITYM "LUMPS". Lancaster Usage Monitoring (Proposed System). The question is then obviously; if we give the model LUMPS will it reduce the performance?

PDR
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on June 07, 2005, 20:23:23 pm
QuoteThe question is then obviously; if we give the model LUMPS will it reduce the performance?
.....EUMS (he ponders), I'm not sure?  ;D ;D (ok guys in-jokes coming to an end now..honest!).
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: PDR on June 08, 2005, 11:07:14 am
Quote from: Gordon on June 07, 2005, 20:23:23 pm
.....EUMS (he ponders), I'm not sure?  ;D ;D (ok guys in-jokes coming to an end now..honest!).


To digress a bit closer to the topic (sorry Wiz!) - thanks for confirming the thing about 4.8v S400s on 2-cells. What props do you use them on and what current do they draw?

PDR
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: BalsaDust on June 08, 2005, 14:34:00 pm
Hi PDR,
well strictly I'm not actually using 2 Lipoly cells per motor  :-[  - but that said I am using 4.8v motors in a series/parallel setup powered by 10x3300 NimH's.

That would equate to a nominal 6v per motor which isn't far off the 2 cell Lipoly figure ....... ish

The motors are driving 8x4 APC-E props thru 2.33:1 gearboxes. Total current draw at full chat (6500rpm) is a steady 28Amps.

regards
BalsaDust
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on June 08, 2005, 17:26:58 pm
Hi guys...BD, wot does your 10x3300MAh weight...just nosey to compare my monster as it's 730g!  :'(
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: BalsaDust on June 08, 2005, 18:13:11 pm
Hi Gordon,
just checked the web, and a single GP 3300 is 62gms ...... That puts my pack @ 620g - but will check tonight - not far off the weight of your monster (Nessie ? :D)


regards
BD
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on June 08, 2005, 19:36:32 pm
Quotenot far off the weight of your monster (Nessie ? )
....but Nessie's a myth BD, this battery is THE monster!  :ev
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: BalsaDust on June 08, 2005, 21:55:57 pm
hi gordon, just weighed my pack ..... its 665g

regards
BD
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on June 08, 2005, 22:04:11 pm
Quotehi gordon, just weighed my pack ..... its 665g
...mmm, that's 65g less than my lump but for a 1200MAh upside.  Thanks for indulging my curiosity BD.  :ww  Got the velcro cut and fitted tonight, so no real excuses for getting her onto a taxi test this weekend.....now what about the weather?   :) 
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: lavers on June 09, 2005, 18:37:39 pm
Hi guys, a few photos of progress so far, the model I have depicted (with a bit poetic licence) is NX760 of Tiger Force, post war. The only thing stopping me from getting her in the air is a suitable flying site and getting the undercarrige soldered up to resemble a bit of scale.

(http://www.rcmf.co.uk/uploads/tiger1.jpg)

(http://www.rcmf.co.uk/uploads/tiger2.jpg)

(http://www.rcmf.co.uk/uploads/tiger3.jpg)

(http://www.rcmf.co.uk/uploads/tiger4.jpg)

(http://www.rcmf.co.uk/uploads/tiger6.jpg)

Regards
John
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on June 09, 2005, 19:33:54 pm
SSSSSSSUUUUUUUUUPPPPPEEEERRRRRRRRBBBBBBBBB!   :af :af :af :af
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: a.mclellan on June 09, 2005, 22:08:48 pm
TOP NOTCH John,

Good Luck on your test flight. :af :af
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: BalsaDust on June 09, 2005, 22:31:47 pm
Looking good John. On the subject of flying sites .... is this the one you mentioned in an earlier post ?

(http://www.foxesonline.info/lancaster/last-drop.jpg)

regards
BD
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: lavers on June 10, 2005, 08:55:35 am
Thanks guys. Great photo BD, how did you get that? I fly my spit in the field at the top with the two trees in it. the complex in the middle is the Last Drop Village marriage factory. The landing site I was thinking of using is the overspill car park which as the metalled arc around the top of the complex. Loads of room but unfortunatley it has a hugh hump in the middle which you cannot see over. I am going to use it for taxiing tests and if she should "jump" into the air it would be safe enough to land I think but not ideal. Going to have to get into the car with the family this weekend and have a drive around the Lancashire hill country to find a site. If I had a float plane I would be quids in! plenty water round here I can tell you. You have managed to get the 14th hole of my golf courrse in but you have just missed my house, I live a few streets away from the small field in the bottom left corner. You must tell me how to get those photos.

Kind regards

John
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: BalsaDust on June 10, 2005, 22:14:59 pm
Hi John,
if you go to multi-map.com (http://www.multimap.com) and type in your postcode, you'll get the aerial shots.
If your already flying there then you know the area which is a good thing !

How about making a dolly for the Spit and fly that from the car park ? You know, just to put it to the test ......


BD
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Arel on June 13, 2005, 07:53:15 am
Looking really good John...Really good :)

Gordo, Any news?

Rich
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on June 13, 2005, 12:42:23 pm
QuoteGordo, Any news?
......yup, it's raining!  :ev 
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on June 22, 2005, 00:01:57 am
Ok, 2 reasons I've reopened the thread.

No 1...the lanc thread should never be on Page 2.

No 2....a question!  This is bound to be a blindingly obvious one, so indulge me guys!  I'm assuming that the propellor is viewed from the rear, so if it is rotating clockwise then the torque would tend to turn the aircraft to the right (in the direction of rotation)?  Will it? (yup u guessed it, it's not a lanc question completely!   :af ).
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: PDR on June 22, 2005, 10:45:56 am
Quote from: Gordon on June 22, 2005, 00:01:57 am
No 2....a question!  This is bound to be a blindingly obvious one, so indulge me guys!  I we assume that a propellor is viewed from the rear, if it is rotating clockwise then the torque would tend to turn the aircraft to the right?  Will it? (yup u guessed it, it's not a lanc question!   :af ).


No - to the left actually.

PDR
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on June 22, 2005, 13:05:17 pm
QuoteNo - to the left actually.
....clucking bell   :ev  Thanks PDR.   :af  That means my lanc will swing to the left on take-off (viewed from the rear).  :-\ 
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: PDR on June 22, 2005, 13:55:32 pm
Quote from: Gordon on June 22, 2005, 13:05:17 pm
....clucking bell   :ev Thanks PDR.  :af That means my lanc will swing to the left on take-off (viewed from the rear).  :-\ 


Yess it will. Definitely. Every time.

Except when it swings to the right... :)

In reality don't worry about it - just make sure that the mainwheels are either straight or toed OUT and use the rudders as <insert deity of choice> intended.

PDR
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: SteveM on June 22, 2005, 14:32:56 pm
Gordon,
Right answer but for only part of the reasons.  The dominant effect on take-off is not torque reaction but rather the helical slipstream of the prop.  This is effectively a vortex rotating in the same direction as the prop, streaming out behind it.  In a single-engine aircraft it is easy to visualise this vortex hitting the fin and rudder on the left side and cocking the nose over to the left.  I haven't quite got my head around the 4-engine, twin-fin config of a lanc, but imagine it would be the same.

Torque apparently has a relatively small effect (albeit in the same sense) inasmuch as it squashes the tyre on the left and causes greater ground friction on that side.  In the air, very high powered aircraft such as the Spit would definitely torque-roll (not yaw) in the air if the throttle was slammed open, so experience taught pilots to lead with opposite aileron or rudder.  It caught-out a number of pilots when the Griffon-engine spits were introduced which had the prop turning in the opposite direction to the Merlin.  I believe this nearly killed a well-known Kiwi warbird collector a few years back the first time he tried to fly his newly acquired MkXlV.

Steve
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: PDR on June 22, 2005, 14:42:05 pm
Quote from: SteveM on June 22, 2005, 14:32:56 pm
Right answer but for only part of the reasons.


I was trying to keep it simple - in this instance it doesn't really matter WHY it swings, just that it might swing. Torque will be a minor contributor, and spiral flow would be another. Then there's off-stream propellor inrush, so called "P-factor" and a number of others. Of these the spiral flow may well be the biggest factor in starting the swing, but offset inrush and possibly undercarriage layout will be the biggest factors in the POWER of the swing.

PDR
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on June 22, 2005, 16:11:26 pm
QuoteIt caught-out a number of pilots when the Griffon-engine spits were introduced
....the same happened when Merlin trained lanc pilots retrained on Hercules lancs and Hallibags.  Yeah, keep it simple guys.  Just say 10 times Gordon 'my lanc might swing to Port', now go and lie down in a quiet shaded area and slowly repeat the words 'torque', 'spiral flow' etc etc   :ww   :ev :af
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: PDR on June 22, 2005, 16:23:57 pm
Quote from: Gordon on June 22, 2005, 16:11:26 pm
now go and lie down in a quiet shaded area and slowly repeat the words...


"...far away across the field,
the tolling of the clucking bell
pulls the take off to the left
so use the rudder stick to take off well..."

Sorry - we seem to have som lunatics on the grass. Normal service will be resumed as soon as possible.

(With apols to roger, dave, nick et al)

PDR
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: BalsaDust on June 22, 2005, 22:36:01 pm
The Lanc does swing a little on its takeoff run, but not enough to lose any sleep over....
The key here is to get the throttle open as quickly as possible and control any tendency to swing with the rudder/tailwheel. The tail lifts very quickly (check my take-off video!) and once that has happened the rudders have full authority.

In my early flight tests I was trying to slowly open the throttle and keep it all nice and straight on the ground. I soon found that it really isn't worth the hassle ....

PDR - I always thought toe-in ( /     \ ) was the best mechanical method to maintain a straight run ..... If the model swings to the left, the left wheel will be running along the direction of travel, with the right wheel now at an acute angle to it, thereby causing increased friction on the RHS, pulling the model back to the right and straightening things up. I set my Lanc up in this way and it seems OK.


Gordon - has it stopped raining yet ?  :ev 

Not that we're all eagerly awaiting your first flight of course ........ :af

best regards
BalsaDust


Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on June 23, 2005, 00:51:00 am
QuoteGordon - has it stopped raining yet ? 
...hi BD, thanks for the info re the take-off run.  It has stopped raining but work is a pain and looking forward to the LOOOOOONG holidays a week on friday.  SHMBO is off on holiday for 3 days with friends soon after, so 36 hours to get the Spit and Lanc flown?
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: PDR on June 23, 2005, 10:30:47 am
Quote from: BalsaDust on June 22, 2005, 22:36:01 pm
PDR - I always thought toe-in ( / \ ) was the best mechanical method to maintain a straight run ..... If the model swings to the left, the left wheel will be running along the direction of travel, with the right wheel now at an acute angle to it, thereby causing increased friction on the RHS, pulling the model back to the right and straightening things up. I set my Lanc up in this way and it seems OK.


Not this old chestnut again!! No. Absolutely not. Nada. Niet. Nein....AAARRRGGGHHH!!

This is an old myth perpetuated by a book on model design written by an alleged "former Boeing design engineer" and it's complete bunkum. It ranks alongside the explanation of dihederal effect that suggets the upper wing has shorter effective span and thus less lift (which is also "significantly at odds with reality"). It's amazing how these old myths persist - it can drive a chap to drink, drugs and loose women...

"Calm down man - it's only a forum posting" (using my best Michael Winner voice).  :D

OK then - for a TAILDRAGGER:

In the above explanation you've mentioned the "friction on the outboard wheel, but completely ignored that this wheel, being rolled at an angle, will generate a turning force in the direction of the yaw. This force dominates because whilst turning there is weight transfer to the outboard wheel, and it can therefore develop larger forces before losing adhesion (W is greater, therefore R is greater, therefore Mu*R is greater). This means that as soon as a swing starts the weight starts to transfer to the outboard wheel which increases the turning moment, which increases the turn rate, which increases the weight transfer, which increases the weight transfer, which increases the turning moment, which increases the turn rate, which increases the weight transfer...and so we get the classical "positive feedback" uncontrollable swing unless the damping (a combination of aerodynamic fin forces and yaw-axis moment of inertia) is enough to control it.

On the other hand if the wheels are toed OUT then at the start of a swing the weight is transferred to the outboard wheel which (being toed out) generates a turning force to OPPOSE the swing and this force dominates because there's more weight on this wheel. This provides the classical "negative feedback" stability.

Here's a diagram (we engineers can't do anything without a diagram!):

(http://www.rcmf.co.uk/uploads/toeout.jpg)


Now some have been heard to mutter "well that's just a theory!", but there's plenty or real-world verification. Ask any motorsport people about the effects of toe setiings on cars - increasing toe-in makes the steering more lively at the expense of straight-line stability whilst decreasing it improves stability whilst making the steering "duller". In my own case I've benefitted hugely because in the early 80s there was a Marutaka 1/4scale Pitts S1 which was being passed from member to member in my club, each pronouncing it impossible to take off because it swung so uncontrollably. I got it for a fiver and found that the original builder had put around 3 degrees of toe-in on each wheel - when I too some large pliers to the U/C wires and switched this to 3 degrees of toe-OUT it became an absolute pussycat; I flew it for over 10 years (yes, it had a huge fuel tank - Ed). I've also "fixed" at least 10 "problem" models for various people over the last 20-odd years by simply getting rid of the toe-in. ALso the few full-size taildraggers that have toe-in have it for one of two reasons:

1. To improve the rudder authority in the early part of the take-off run and the latter part of the landing roll-out.

2. To improve stability when being pushed backards into a hangar or parking spot (this was why some Turbulents were given toe-in).

Now for a TRICYCLE gear layout (or any other layout which puts the primary U/C behind the CG) the situation is reversed because the turning force acts in the opposite sense, so for a trike you toe the wheels IN for more stability and OUT for more manoeuverability.

I'm going off for a lie down now - get the nurse to bring me my pills please.  :)

PDR
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: BalsaDust on June 23, 2005, 11:16:18 am
Hi PDR,

great explanation ....... I bow to the God of Toes!!

Quote
It ranks alongside the explanation of dihederal effect that suggets the upper wing has shorter effective span and thus less lift


I thought that one was true as well - but lets not go there !  ;D

Quote
This is an old myth perpetuated by a book on model design written by an alleged "former Boeing design engineer"


..... found the toe in bit on a NASA website too - perhaps he works for them now ??

regards
BD
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: PDR on June 23, 2005, 11:44:47 am
Quote from: BalsaDust on June 23, 2005, 11:16:18 am
great explanation ....... I bow to the God of Toes!!


It's important to toe the line on matters like this, but then I'm hopeless on scale models - everything I build looks like it was scaled at five toes to the foot.

Quote
[dihedral] I thought that one was true as well - but lets not go there ! ;D


It's simple enough; dihederal works by yaw-roll coupling - just like when you use the rudder and the model rolls. If the model is displaced such that one wing goes down it sideslips towards the low wing. This prodeces a yaw and the yaw-roll coupling makes the model roll back level. It's only important to know the difference because, being a secondary rather than a primary effect, the model recovers to level flight on a different heading - there is no "heading stability".

The more interesting question is why dihederal produces yaw-roll coupling in the first place - this is simpkly a matter of geometry. If you look at what happens to the angles-of-attack of the two wings when a model with dihederal is yawed then all becomes clear as soon as you recognise that the airflow is no longer parallel to the chord.

PDR
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on June 23, 2005, 12:37:56 pm
QuoteIt's amazing how these old myths persist - it can drive a chap to drink, drugs and loose women...
....loose women?  Ok, I've seen Nessie  :ev :ev   

Gawd guys, I only asked about prop rotation and I get NASA...... ;D ;D ;D ;D 

However, PDR got me thinking again about my erratic Spit and my old Hillman Imp.....better get on my 'toes' (ouch) and check the Spits geometry as well  :af :af
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: PDR on June 23, 2005, 13:40:05 pm
Quote from: Gordon on June 23, 2005, 12:37:56 pm
....loose women?  Ok, I've seen Nessie  :ev :ev   


AH yes, it takes one back to the halcyon days of university - a carefree aspiring to fast cars and hot women, then succumbing to the dawning realisation that being an engineer by temperament as well as education essentially limited the horizon to just the fast cars. But all was not lost - I learned to cook, and pretty soon found that the prospect of a decent meal more or less guarranteed female company of a weekend. It never ceased to astonish me just what 18-21-year-old female students (usually History or English) would do for a good dinner...

Quote
Gawd guys, I only asked about prop rotation and I get NASA...... ;D ;D ;D ;D


Don't worry - the invoice is in the post.

Quote
However, PDR got me thinking again about my erratic Spit and my old Hillman Imp.....better get on my 'toes' (ouch) and check the Spits geometry as
well :af :af


The imp was too climactic for me ;D, but I spent many happy years modifying Spits - the IV/1300 was the best of the bunch. With a little pursuasion as much as 140BHP could be extracted, although the GT6 gearbox was needed if you wanted more than a few hundred miles between rebuilds. I usually set the front camber to -1/2deg or so to encourage the tail to be more lively, but that's a matter of personal taste.

PDR
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on June 25, 2005, 23:17:26 pm
QuoteThe imp was too climactic for me
....wot?  :ev :ev  Get a Land Rover mate, plenty of climax in that beast PDR  :af :af  Right I'm off to re-read this lot and get the spit taxying properly  :af
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on July 01, 2005, 13:13:37 pm
Right, we're back on Page 1 where this thread should be.   :af  Work finishes today for 6 weeks and I won't miss it a bit.  ;D  SWMBO is off caravanning for 3 days next week so serious lanc taxying etc going to take place...even a flight, who knows? 

PDR, thanks for the info re the Spit......had conflicting opinions over this and then had a good idea (for a change!)....I went onto my Realflight simulator and checked all the single-engined models and you were right...!!

Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: PDR on July 01, 2005, 13:29:43 pm
Quote from: Gordon on July 01, 2005, 13:13:37 pm
PDR, thanks for the info re the Spit...


Err...what info? Somewhere along the line there must be a plot, but I think I've lost it...

Anyway, whatever it was - you're welcome!

Quote
...had conflicting opinions over this and then had a good idea (for a change!)....I went onto my Realflight simulator and checked all the single-engined models and you were right...!!


"PDR was right" - tautology, surely?!  ;D

PDR
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: CraigO on July 04, 2005, 06:00:09 am
come on gordon i am dying to read a flight report. :)

Craig
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: BalsaDust on July 04, 2005, 08:40:12 am
Hi guys,
(lets try some gentle persuasion Craig  :af)


flew the Jersey Lanc yesterday, first time it had been out for a while .... I'd almost forgotten how good it sounds !
Got an absolute greaser of a landing and a nice run out to the end of the runway, slowed to a stop and switched the tailwheel steering on and taxied back towards me.


Brilliant !

BD
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on July 04, 2005, 09:23:02 am
Quotecome on gordon i am dying to read a flight report.
....so am I  ;D ;D ;D

Quoteswitched the tailwheel steering on and taxied back towards me.
...how's this work BD?

Ok guys...ENOUGH!  The OCU phase isn't going well at all, as the Spit has had lots of problems...should sort it out when SHMBO is off caravanning in a day or so.  Once that's sussed the HCU phase starts.
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Arel on July 05, 2005, 11:48:51 am
Gentle persuasion eh?

(In best "It Aint Alf Hot Mum" voice)
SHIFT YOUR *&^% YOU ORRIBLE LITTLE MAN!!  :D :D


CraigO,

Anything happening with the Vimy?


I'm actually sitting here with my bits spread all over the place (Lanc bits :ww). Now that I've finished all my other projects and it's too cold to go out on the bike for a few weeks. I intend to get a bit done...



...I promise :)

Rich
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on July 05, 2005, 13:33:26 pm
Quoteshould sort it out when SHMBO is off caravanning in a day or so.  Once that's sussed the HCU phase starts.
...she ain't going now, so the OCU phase is put back even more  :'( :'( :'(

QuoteSHIFT YOUR *&^% YOU ORRIBLE LITTLE MAN
....nice to see you back too Arel  :ev
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: CraigO on July 06, 2005, 05:06:24 am
I absolutely love flying the Lanc.  As you say BD the look of the old girl on finals wheels coming down then gently kissing the pavement.  lovely.  I took mine to another display recently and was the only one in the air because everyone wanted to watch it.

Fortunately another greaser, right on the numbers :)

Come on gordon!

Rich.  I have put the vimy on indefinite hold.  I am currently building a Polikarpov I-153  the gull winged biplane. what a task, makes the vimy build look like a doddle.  then i am going to try a jet,  and what better jet to try than a................262 :)

cheers all

Craig
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: CraigO on July 06, 2005, 05:08:29 am
just by the way forgive my ignorance but what is

OCU and HCU?

Craig
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Arel on July 06, 2005, 13:07:18 pm
Craig,

Ruskie stuff eh? I'll check it out on RCSB.

I'm sure "CU" is "Conversion Unit" ie training squadron, and HCU is Heavy Conversion Unit

O is maybe Operational? As in Operational Conversion Unit...or a training squadron on ops...

Then again, I was wrong once... :D
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: BalsaDust on July 06, 2005, 16:09:53 pm
Never mind OCU & HCU ..... what about OCG ?  .......



Oi ! C'mon Gordon !














Only joking ...  :af

BD
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on July 06, 2005, 17:13:25 pm
BD gets the cigar!  Heavy Conversion Units (Bombers) and Operational Conversion Units (Fighters).   In-laws now rtb and might get near the Spit tomorrow....!
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Walts on July 06, 2005, 22:40:41 pm
Hello Chaps.

I've heard they've stopped shooting deserter's these days, so I thought i'd take a chance on coming back! :D

Don't know what happened really, Finished my day's work on the Lanc, Put it down and just never went back to it.  It was like a switch going off :(  Mind you it's been a hell of a year with domestic crisis.

Well I picked it up again this week and hadn't got a clue what i'd done or how i'd done it! Took a bit of thinking about but I am back on it.

I read the past 12 months threads to catch up on whats been going on, and My God Gordon have you really been waffling on for a whole year!! ;D ;D  I am sure that Lanc was practically ready  to fly the last time I was here!! ;D ;D

Anyway a BIG HELLO to everyone.

Cheers
Walts.
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on July 07, 2005, 01:00:50 am
QuoteMy God Gordon have you really been waffling on for a whole year!!
...wot me?   Welcome back by the way!  :af
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Walts on July 08, 2005, 18:04:08 pm
hello gordon,
               nice to see some familiar names still going strong on here. :) secretly I was quite pleased you hadn't flown her yet cos I want to be right here when you do! no pressure though gordon ;D ;D ;D Did i read a little while back that you had acquired a B17, lucky #*# That is another of my all time favourite aircraft, and one I have been promising to build for the last 15yrs :-\
Any news yet on when she will fly?
             
cheers walts
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on July 08, 2005, 19:44:21 pm
Walts....
QuoteAny news yet on when she will fly?
...the Spit just burnt out its motor this morning, so ordered a 480 from Galaxy; should be here on Monday or Tuesday I hope.  That means no way will I be trying the lanc before more practice on the Spit.  To add insult to injury I finally got the Spit to taxi straight today and then the motor burnt out...gawd I'm p...sd off.   >:(

The B-17 is a Guillows model I build very slowly each time the school model club meets.  However, the fuselage and vertical tail/rudder are built and I hope to build some more before I have to come down to England on a 'holiday' next week   :-\

However, I am going to taxi the lanc tomorrow on tarmac and grass to see how she does.  :af

Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: BalsaDust on July 08, 2005, 20:54:33 pm
Hi Gordon
Bet you're looking forward to it ! - I know we all are !  :ev

Seriously though - Enjoy the moment, it will really feel great !

If you've got enough space, do some hi-speed runs and try a hop into the air keeping everything straight and level then drop down again, remembering too keep some back stick in once you've landed as she'll nose over if you're not carefull.

Also if she won't lift off at all then the CG could be too far forward ....

Welcome back Walts - hows you're model doing ?

regards
BD
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Walts on July 08, 2005, 23:37:45 pm
Hi BalsaDust.

The last time I was working on the Lanc I was trying to panel line it, I've never done it before but always fancied it.  The Lanc is not the easiest model to try this on for the first time, and the results show (some areas over done etc.) But anyway i've fitted the u/c and tail wheel, fitted the motors and wired them up,  Just got to fit the spinners, fins, front blister, u/c doors, and cockpit detail, Then hopefully she is finished all but final set up!

Gordon,  Interested in your grass trials, as that is likely to be my only option.

cheers
Walts.
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on July 10, 2005, 20:29:08 pm
Walts...I'll get the grass taxi stuff done tomorrow I hope, as been busy rehashing the Spit to fit a 480 into the MPJET gearbox.  Now mostly done, just to run it and get the C of G fixed AGAIN... :co
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Walts on July 10, 2005, 21:37:48 pm
o.k. gordon keep us posted. I spent a couple of hours last night and most of this afternoon trying to get my spinners fitted, tricky business, hope to try and finish them tomorrow, one more job to tick off the list ???
We had 4 tornado's thunder across our roof top to day on there way to the mall, boy they were low! gave the wife a heart attack ::)

                                            Walts.
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on July 10, 2005, 23:18:29 pm
Quotegave the wife a heart attack
...so give her the kiss of life then!  :ev

Motor's fitted and just to check via the Wattmeter.  To adjust the C of G on the Spit (as the motors are different weights), the battery position shouldn't be too difficult to change since the battery is held in by a strip of heavy duty velcro (as is the lancs).   :ww  To get the C of G bang-on each time with the lanc I made up a 'U' shaped piece of balsa and mounted it laterally.  This way it allows the battery to slot into the centre of the 'U' each time.   
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Walts on July 11, 2005, 20:45:37 pm
Good luck with the spit Gordon. :af

I managed to finish my spinners, spray them and refit them today. Quite pleased in the end.  I'm off to Devon tomorrow, to revisit a property I might be buying, right on the edge of the moors, Just think 300 sq miles of potential flying area   :ww

Cheers
Walts.
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Gordon on July 12, 2005, 11:38:20 am
Small world Walts...we're off to the Eden Project in a couple of weeks and my daughter wants to visit Mousehole village (saw it on a video etc etc!).  Two weeks of travelling, yuk.... :'(
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Walts on July 16, 2005, 13:31:31 pm
Hello Gordon,

Got back from Devon yesterday, Things are looking good with the house purchase.  It's a tiny villiage called Lee Moor, 6 miles outside of plymton, set in georgous countryside with far reaching views over the Moor's.  It's a shame we couldn't be moved in a couple of weeks so we could have met up!

Anyway what's going on, This site has been bubbling along nicely for the last 12 months then I reappear and bang it's as dead as a doe doe, Tell me straight guys, Do I need to change my deodrant!! :o :D

Walts.
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Arel on July 17, 2005, 09:23:54 am
Yes :D


Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Walts on July 17, 2005, 11:25:35 am
 You cut me deep arel, real deep :-[ ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Dek on July 18, 2005, 15:25:04 pm
Good Grief!!
You are all still here and Gordon still hasn't taken the plunge with the Lanc.
I still have 'Offley Belle's' tailfins on the cupboard door along with one or two other less paiful reminders of planes gone by.
I must learn to land properly one of these days.
regards
Derek
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Walts on July 18, 2005, 19:31:27 pm
Hello Dek old chap,

Yes I am still here, took a year off from modeling un-intentionaly but I am back now and determined to finish 'S' for Sugar.  Mind you the trip to Devon last week meant no progress again   >:( And if this house sale goes ahead everything will get shelved or should I say boxed until we relocate. Scary the thought of the Lanc in the back of a removal lorry, No that can't happen! must finish her :o

Anyway what you upto these days, any interesting models in the pipe line??

Walts
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: a.mclellan on July 20, 2005, 21:41:57 pm
Hi Chaps,I don't know if you are aware that Toni Nijhuis has produced a B17. I was talking too him three weeks ago and he showed me the prototype. it the same size as the lanc and should be around the same cost as the lanc, looks very nice. I am still having problems getting my lanc to takeoff on grass even after fitting new motors. Toni came up with a idea of rewiring the motor set up but a chap from overland worked out that it would not make any difference. So I am going to wait for a windy day and try that.

Nice to see some old name back again
cheers
Andy
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: SteveM on July 23, 2005, 11:51:07 am
Hi, Walts
I asked where you had got to many pages ago, but no-one seemed to know!  I am building the 6' Lanc, but am glassing the fus and wing upper surfaces, which is taking forever.  As I recall, wasn't it you who vac-moulded some beautiful engine cowls?  I want to do this - any chance of borrowing your plug??? :)

Steve
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Walts on July 23, 2005, 19:26:25 pm
Hi Steve,

Yes I made a plug for the cowls but I didn't have the machine to pull them, so I obtained a favour from a friend of a friend.

Anyway during the pulling process the exhaust stub got broken off.  The guy managed to fix it and finish the job, but he said the plug isn't very strong and he would recommend making a plaster plug from one of the plastic cowls and then using that as the master.  I have got a couple of spare cowls, So if I send you one of those perhaps you can work from that.  You will probaly need to clean up the plaster plug and seal it before using it. But this should give you a chance to refine the detail.  Hope this helps.  PM me with your address if you want it  :af  Any pictures of your progress so far, as i've been away for a year?

Andy, uhmm, a B17, now that has me all excited :D Any info or photo's available yet!

Cheers
Walts.
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Arel on July 24, 2005, 12:30:30 pm
Quote from: Walts on July 17, 2005, 11:25:35 am
You cut me deep arel, real deep :-[ ;D ;D ;D


Suck it up Walts...no one will be able to smell you if you buy that property out in the boonies :D :Donly joking

I flew my B-24 today. Wasn't planning to as my 10 cell 2400 pack wouldn't charge up properly and an unusual number of people were still at the club this arvo. The hecklers made me do it  :) Here's a pic of my B-24 and the fleet.

(http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/8987/img09431up.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)

Where you at Gordon?
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Walts on July 27, 2005, 01:20:49 am
Arel, That rather nice photo of your B24 has got me real worried.  That model looks the same sort of scale and power plant's as the Lanc, but also looks like it has been built feather light!
I am to scared to weigh my Lanc till it's finished.  I've started detailing the cockpit, built 9 parts already, I am just a hopeless junkie when it comes to scale, cant stop myself!  :D

Walts.
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Arel on July 27, 2005, 10:12:33 am
Hi Walts,

2.3m span and~2kg  means it flies like a big glider and thermals in the right conditions. I can really recommend the power system too. It pulls so hard you don't even need to throw it.

I actually did a bit on my Lanc yesterday, wingtips and tailwheel assy are nearing completion.


Which is a good thing as I've ordered a B-17 kit from the US:D

And I'm collecting any info I can on Stirlings and maybe Hallifaxes

..and FW200...and BV222...and ... and   :D :D
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: CraigO on July 28, 2005, 01:21:44 am
i have collected a bit on the Condor if you are interested.
my preliminary numbers showed it was really dooable.  bigger wing area and fuz than the lanc.  retracts would be a doddle unless you wanted them to look scale :)

gordon; anything to report :)

cheers

Craig
Title: Re: Leccy Lanc X
Post by: Dek on July 28, 2005, 12:23:52 pm
Quote from: Walts on July 18, 2005, 19:31:27 pm
Hello Dek old chap,

Anyway what you upto these days, any interesting models in the pipe line??

Walts


Hi Walt
I've built and crashed an Aztec which was designed and kitted by a club mate. Built but not flown an 'Islander' from one of the Nexus plans and am trying to get in enough flying time to take my B test. Current building project is my own design